f13.net

Okay, just got back from seeing a matinee of the movie.  Personally, I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I think this is going to be one of those movies that you either really love or really hate.

Beyond the shark spookiness (which there is in abundance), this movie leaves you with a feeling of complete emptiness.  The scenery doesn't change, it's just vast expanses of water 360 degrees around the characters and it makes you feel fucking tiny.  Far more spooky than the sharks themselves.

It reminds me of a trip to Mexico I took years ago, when I was snorkeling off of a reef that has a steep drop off.  Had a blast because the water was clear blue and I could see all the way to the reef below me, which was about 80 feet down, it felt just like flying.  Then, all of a sudden, the reef drops off, and I'm not flying any more.  I'm floating over this empty unending blue.  

I've never been scared in the water like I was at that point, and there were no critters around to freak me out, even.  I just had this shocking monkey impulse deep in my brain that told me being in water that deep was BAD BAD BAD, and I had to really fight hard to keep myself from panicking.  Freaked out, I swam back for the boat as hard as I could.

Anyway, much of this movie felt like that.  Whether you're up for something like this is up to you.  But I enjoyed the hell out of it.

I had the same type of experience in Hawaii. I was snorkeling in Hanauma Bay, the vast majority of which is 3-4 feet deep (and shallower in many spots). We kept moving farther out, and eventually hit a spot where the coral gave way to a deep pool with a sandy bottom. I couldn't see the other side of this pool...suddenly brain was SURE that the water just beyond my visual range was teeming with tiger sharks, and that I needed to get my ass back in the protected coral area ASAFP.

I really want to see Open Water...I think it will scare the bejeesus out of me, but it sounds fascinating.

I'm almost positive it will scare the beejesus out of me in a good way. The trailer does a good job of conveying what the movie is about. Hell, it probably gives most of the story away, but I think this is one of those movies where the impact is about more than what happened.

Yeah, I found myself lifting my feet off of the floor more than a few times, because hey, you never know when the theater shark will strike!  A great scene that goes on for minutes on end is the nighttime storm.  The screen stays black and the theatre is dark as hell, and the only time you can see is when lightning strikes, to reveal, oh, say a fin about 3 feet away from the characters.  Like I said, it goes on like this for about 3-4 minutes.

I just about crapped myself.

The scariest time I've had in the ocean is when I was abalone diving from a boat and had to swim about 200 yards, through deep water, to get to where I would be diving.  I'd never swam in such water before and the location/condition was similar to what a friend had described to me as a breeding ground for great whites where he had grown up!  The whole time I was swimming, I had visions of a shark coming from behind and under me to take a bite, and I was not happy with that.

I'm used to abalone diving in water from 3-30', but I always enter the water from the shore.  Going from the boat tripped me out because I was immediately in deeper water than I've ever been in before in the ocean.

The start of this thread was enough to freak me out.
I'm staying as far away from this movie as physics will allow.

FUCK!

First I read this thread, and I hadn't even got word of  the news.  I planned on abalone diving somewhere around Fort Bragg last weekend, but my schedule changed and I couldn't go.

Now I read this shit (http://www.thekcrachannel.com/news/3659819/detail.html)!

When I went cage diving with great whites (well one great white, pickings were low that day) only a few days earlier the local paper had pictures of a smiling surfer witn a surfboard that a great white had taken a HUGE bite out of...

But diving with sharks isn't nearly as unsettling as swimming/snorkeling over dark water and letting your imagination run wild...

That's what I was talking about!  Abalone diving is done with mask, fins, and a snorkel.  

A couple years back, a bunch of friends were diving, and a game warden was waiting for them at the top of the hill when they got out.  As they came out with their catch, the warden(with binoculars) said, "You guys are brave."

The group requested to know why, and the warden replied, "Look, there's a great white down there that was swimming around with you."

That was the last time my friend's dad dove.  He's been rock picking ever since the incident.

I seem to remember hearing that abalone divers are among those who are most likely to have an encounter (attack or not) with great whites, since abalone and great whites share a lot of the same habitat. If that is true, there isn't a chance in HELL I would ever go near such a place. Sure, the statistics show that being killed by a great white exceedingly rare, but my gut feeling is the stats also show that no one has EVER been killed by a great white on land. I like my chances on terra firma, thanks.

I'd never spearfish, period.  The thrashing and blood in the water just scream out "I am wounded prey!  Come check me out!"  I have no desire to be anywhere near that kind of bad mojo.

Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into our side, chief. It was comin' back, from the island of Tinian Delady, just delivered the bomb.
The Hiroshima bomb.
Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in twelve minutes.
Didn't see the first shark for about a half an hour.
Tiger.
Thirteen footer.
You know, you know that when you're in the water, chief?
You tell by lookin' from the dorsal to the tail.

Well, we didn't know. `Cause our bomb mission had been so secret, no distress signal had been sent. Huh huh. They didn't even list us overdue for a week.
Very first light, chief. The sharks come cruisin'. So we formed ourselves into tight groups.
You know it's... kinda like `ol squares in battle like a, you see on a calendar, like the battle of Waterloo. And the idea was, the shark would go for nearest man and then he'd start poundin' and hollerin' and screamin' and sometimes the shark would go away.
Sometimes he wouldn't go away.
Sometimes that shark, he looks right into you. Right into your eyes. You know the thing about a shark, he's got...lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eye. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be livin'. Until he bites ya and those black eyes roll over white. And then, ah then you hear that terrible high pitch screamin' and the ocean turns red and spite of all the poundin' and the hollerin' they all come in and rip you to pieces.

Y'know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men! I don't know how many sharks, maybe a thousand!
I don't know how many men, they averaged six an hour.
On Thursday mornin' chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player, bosom's mate. I thought he was asleep, reached over to wake him up. Bobbed up and down in the water, just like a kinda top. Up ended. Well... he'd been bitten in half below the waist.
Noon the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us, he swung in low and he saw us. He'd a young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper, anyway he saw us and come in low.
And three hours later a big fat PBY comes down and start to pick us up.

You know that was the time I was most frightened?
Waitin' for my turn.
I'll never put on a lifejacket again.
Eleven hundred men went in the water, three hundred and sixteen men come out, the sharks took the rest, June the 29, 1945.
Anyway, we delivered the bomb.

Away and ado to you fair spanish ladies...

Bone up on your Jaws, fool.  It's "Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies"....

With that awful drunken talk, who could tell.

Keep Chummin

Because it's a nearly 200 year old chanty?  You would think you might be able to find a reference to it...

How about yall all get off my dick over a one-liner...

Thanks, you now may return to whatever jobs you have.

So - there I was parasailing in Mexico. I look down into the clear blue water and see a Mantaray. And I think - if the rope breaks - I'm dead.

That I went fishing and caught a dogfish. I think they are related to sharks.

Thats the extent of my shark/sharklike stories.

Manta Ray's eat plankton.  Dunno if you were joking or not so I figured I would clear that up.  My step father owned a fishing boat and I spent most of my weekends and summers at sea as a teenager, I've seen any number of sharks, mostly we just cut the lines but occaisionally we would have to pull them aboard.  A 12 foot hammerhead thrashing about wildy in a 3 foot wide walkway can be fairly dangerous.

He would probably die because he would sail over the nearest hill, away from the safe tourist area, and be raped and murdered by malcontent locals when he finally landed. At least he could say he say a ray before he died in agony!

No - I figured a 12 year old kid would have been pretty appetizing to a mantra ray at that point. It was cool to be able to look down 500 ft and see it though.

Yeah, they can get big.  30 ft from tip to tip or so.  They certainly look intiidating as hell, they are after all refered to as Devil Rays, but fortunately they're harmless.

Much like their namesakes in Tampa.../rimshot

Occasionally when I was on Floats in the Corps the ship would authorize swimming while the LCAC's would be out getting their flight pay.  That is kind of intimadating, to be able to swim as far down as you are able and still not see any thing below you.  Blue water swimming and blue water diving are definitely interesting practices.

Fuck me, I will never see this movie.

Not cause its bad. Because I know it will scare the shit out of me. In that, "no sleep for j00" kind of way.

I have a thing about sharks, and really deep water.

No. Just No.

And then you look down in the vast blueness, and see two huge glowing eyes several hundred feet below. They must be the size of picnic tables.

Then the gaping mouth opens, wide enough to drive a truck through.

As it swims up toward you, your last thoughts of are your grandmother making you cookies.

It would never happen of course, but just the thought of what could be down in the deep is enough to keep me on dry land. I really do not want to look down and see a gigantic form swimming below me.

you're gonna need a bigger quote.

Die in a shark fire.

Don't worry. It won't happen.

...the eyes are black and the colouration and speed perfectly suited to you not knowing what hit you before a large chunk of flesh is missing from your body and you're bleeding out.

Happy swimming.

[quote="Arcadian Del Sol

you're gonna need a bigger quote.[/quote]

God damnit, you know hard it is to clean a Coke snort off a keyboard?

Finely crushed powder is tough as hell to remove from between the keys. I suggest a vacuum.

or Charlie Sheen, whichever you have on hand.

I didn't hear about that untill my mom called me and told me.  It kind of freaked me out because me and some friends went body surfing at that exact same beach only 4 days before the attack happened.  We where going to go out again the next day, but there where crap loads of giant jelly fish washed up all over the shore, and we figured it probably would suck to go swimming right into a bunch of them.  Now I'm really glade we didn't.

There have been a disturbing number of great white shark attacks at fort bragg over the years I have found out.......

Disturbing # is any number >0, as far as I am concerned. Great whites give me the willies like few other things can.



POTD. Too funny.

I read that it happened in Westport.  The farthest north I've ever dove is Green Acres.  But my Uncle's in laws used to have a cabin in Westport and he dove there on occasion.  These days I usually dive south of Fort Bragg - Todd's Point or Albion or whatever.  We also have an annual family camping/diving trip to Manchester.

  I saw it for free while movie hopping. The audiance groaned when it ended expecting more. "Well, YOU wanted to see it!" I heard a boyfriend say to his dissappointed girlfriend. It's nice you saw it as a matinee which I'm guessing means you did not pay full price.

  Wierdest scene in the entire movie - After they miss their original ship, and see 2 ships in the distance, another ship starts moving towards them. The scene cuts to some other scene, then comes back to them, completly forgetting about the fact that a ship was shown coming towards them!

 Open Water is not the worse movie ever made. Nice date movie, watch the first 30 mins (nice little nudie scene with the very attractive unknown actress in bed) then get busy with your date. IF the main characters had been put into that situation by circumstances beyond their control, then this would be a NICE movie. But this movie is about 2 very dumb morons, who end up in a bad situation BECAUSE of their moronic actions.

 Best line in the entire movie:

 Her -"OoooOOOo I feel sick..."
 Him - "You didn't drink the water did you?"
 Her - "Yes, why?"
 Him - "Your NOT suppose to drink the ocean water!!!"
 Her - "Well, you should have told me that when we got certified!"

  How the heck does one get certified if they do not know basic things about diving? One of my friends later told me they probably got certified because their check cleared - not because they passed the test. He said it's done that way many times in real life. And since this movie is supposivly based on real life.....

  When your boss tells you you have to be at work at 9:00 am, what time to you actually show up for work? Before 9:00am! Maybe at 8:30am, or 8:45am. The ship captain tells the entire diving group the ship leaves in 30 mins. That means come back in 25 mins, or even 28 mins. Not wait until 30 mins are up then head back to the ship. Morons.
 Forget about the other moron on the boat who brags he's been diving for 12 years, but then does something no veteran diver ever does.

  Yes I dive, and am certified. (I've proven to an instructor I can dive by myself, dive in deep water, know how to operate all diving equipment, etc. But I cannot teach.) I scored perfect. I later talked to the instructor after the class was over, since she was in a nice mood. She answered all my questions, and gave me more information based on her years of diving experience. I can't imagine any newbie diver making all the moron mistakes the guy and girl in Open Water make.
 "OMG! We moved! Even though we were not swiming and were trying to stand still. Why?.... oh geee the ocean has currents?"

 The guy then starts quoting information he watched on Cable TV!?! OK... going by his logic, one can watch a movie about flying  an airplane, or riding a motorcycle, or riding a horse, and will instantly know all there is to know after watching the movie. *rolleyes*

 Even after the ship left them, they could have remembered the general direction of the land and swam to it, no matter how long it took. Their life Jackets were good enough that they could swim at a very leisurely pace.

 Sharks are not scary. Like all animals they have set behaviors. Anyone who is not a moron, makes sure they are prepared before going anywhere. The ocean current carried them out into the deep ocean where the big sharks are at. It was their fault they came back to the ship too late. Their fault they decided to not swim for it to either the ship, or to the direction of the land the ship originally came from.

 

 I won't spoil the ending. But I am very glad it ended the way it did. And am also glad I did not pay to see this movie. I recommend seeing it if it comes on cable, or TV, or someone else pays to rent it, or if you go to the movies with a date intending to not watch the entire movie anyway.

Moronic actions aside (I've not seent he movie yet, but am planning to eventually), the divemaster(s) and boat captain are responsible for making sure divers are back and safe before leaving a dive spot.  The fact that they didn't do a simple headcount shows negligence on their part.



While this is nice in theory, and probably valid to a certain degree, it also shows you know squat about certifying divers from an instructor point of view.  In the PADI world, instructors are required to keep records of every diver they have certified, and the ability of any divers they certified is attested by their signatures.  They can (and have been) held responsible for signing off on unprepared divers. Whatever your friend told you is probably "a friend of a friend of a friend heard..."



Losing track of time and/or air levels is human, and the entire sport is made of of the same.  Sounds like what the two people did was a dumb mistake, that was compounded by an even more basically stupid one by the boat operators.



If all you've had is a class and spoken to the instructor, then you know jack shit about real diving.  You're probably one of those divers that is a hazard to everyone else around you because of your own self-important confidence.  I've dealt with idiots that think they are great divers, yet have come down on top of me because they can't be bothered to look below them while they are taking their time descending.

Proving you can dive by yourself (which is retarded and dangerous, IMO, no matter how many people think it's great and do it) means nothing.  Proving you can dive in deep water (WTF does that mean anyways?  Diving by default usually assumes "deep" water, otherwise why are you wearing scuba gear instead of snorkling?) means less.  That's just one dive of 5 training dives to get an advanced cert.  And it's certainly good you can operate all diving equipment.  The stupid in that statement alone would make me question diving with you.  

As for teaching - do you have any idea of the requirements needed for someone to become a PADI qualified instructor?  It's not just take a few classes and get your manual.  There are several levels of certification you need to pass - Open Water, Advanced Open Water, Rescue, Divemaster (which requires a minimum number of dives be completed), Master Scuba Diver, Instructor, Course Director (teacher of instructors), and at the higher levels (past divemaster) there are dive mins to meet.  Plus you have to assist at a certain number of classes, etc, in addition to all the testing at different levels.  Stupid offhand comments like yours annoy me.



Depends, were they warned about the currents and what direction they were going?  If not, then the divemaster is at fault for not providing a proper briefing.  If these two are portrayed as newbie divers, then they shouldn't have been allowed to go off completely unsupervised.  Now, if they did head off on their own anyways, then their fuckup.



Life jackets?!  LIFE JACKETS!?!?!  

If they were several miles out to sea, a leisurely pace is not going to cut it for any length of time.  Plus the hope that the boat might realize it's mistake and come back out to look for them.  Damned if they do, damned if they don't in that situation.




I'll hold judgement on the "sharks not scary" part.  I passed up the shark dive in the Bahamas because I'm not into swimming with the sharks.  I prefer my marine wildlife to smaller than I am.  As for the rest, again, if the divemasters did not provide proper briefings, that is a failing on the dive operations part.  Current diving is a lot different than regular reef diving, and if you are near a strong current, then it should be a guided dive anyways, no matter what level of skill the divers have.  Overall, it sounds like there were a lot of stupid mistakes made by stupid people all around.

You should see the movie Rhyssa. It sounds like you're a competent diver and as such will appreciate the movie more. Be warned however, it's not a happy movie and one of the type where once you've seen it you can't 'unsee' it if that makes any sense.  It was an excellent film on its own merits, even better when you consider the way it was made and have some knowledge of the subject matter.

Yeah, I'm planning on it.  Some other diver friends have seen it and their assessment is that it's going to set diving back more than a few years.   Still, want to see what it's about.  Of course, knowing the ending (and I do know), it makes me wonder how much artistic license there is, seeing as there was no one to talk to and all that.

I'm only advanced, but that's because I've never bothered to go higher.  Been diving for almost 10 years now.  Husband is the PADI instructor.  He started diving over 20 years ago.

Sirbrucing your post to point out the myriads of mistakes would be easy, but I can't be bothered.
But this one stands out.
Life jackets?
I haven't seen the film, but I'm sure they don't wear life jackets. If you don't know the diffrence between a BCD and a lifejacket, you're the kind of certified diver, that makes the hobby dangerous to the rest of us.

You're right about one thing, PADI certification is easy to come by While Rhyssa is right that there's a lot of really good instructors around, it's also a fact that every two bit third world vacation spot have PADI centers, and lets just say that some of them hand out certification like candy.
And you're an example.

Well, went to see the movie yesterday with the husband.  Besides the sheer amount of artistic license involved, it wasn't a bad movie.  Not a happy one, as Ezdaar said, but good none the less.  And Hanzii's right as well.  PADI's drive to expand and promote the sport has lead to some slipshod run operations.

And after seeing it, I would put all blame on the dive operators.  Running a cattle boat like that - wtf! 20 divers on one trip is way too many - and making such basic mistakes as they did are unforgivable.  Not taking a proper headcount before leaving, not cleaning up immediately after the dive (ugh, I'm glad I don't rent gear), not giving a clear briefing before the dive started.. so many things wrong.  

Of course, the couple aren't totally innocent.  Going off on their own, not coming back in time (I think they were late getting back) and not using some elements of common sense, but overall, they weren't at fault here.  Sucks to be them.  Oh, and Capt_Xpl0ridiot, those were tiger sharks, they happen to be aggressive, just FYI.

Some things bugged me about the movie, such as all the dangling gear (octos and gauges mostly), but the biggest was after she released the guys body, it seemed to be all bloated or inflated.  Couldn't figure that one out at all.

Still and all, I enjoyed it, and rather thought it was interesting how she was the one that was strong at the end.  And their argument was funny and oh so typical of couples.

 You are correct, they are both responsible for making sure the divers are back. BUT they are human. And if/when you see the movie you will see that they did do a headcount. But it was because of the actions of a 3rd moron, (who is an even bigger moron than the 2 main character morons) that the two main character morons get screwed up with the headcount.
  Bottom line - the ship captain, and divemaster, are human. Next, there are morons everywhere who will screw everything up no matter how much one tries. "I've been diving for 12 years!" the 3rd (and biggest) moron yells at the divemaster and ship captain.


 We are in full agreement. You agree with both ways. The fact that it is possible for some instructers to certify divers when they "see the check clear" is what we both agree on. As you said "valid to a certain degree".
 BTW, in the movie that was not the 2 main character's first time diving. They were already certified long before... at least 1 year before (that was how long in advance they booked the ship.)





 Yes, it is human, just like the divemaster and ship captain getting messed up by the 3rd moron is also human. What the two people did was not just dumb, it got them into an unnecessary life threating situation by them losing track of time. And anyone who loses track of their air supply will never do it again heheh... because they will be dead.




 The reason I mentioned my diving experience is to show that even with my newbie diving background, I would never drink the ocean water. I am sorry if it seemed like I was coming across as if I knew everything about diving. I do not. I am a newbie diver, with little experience. That is the point I was trying to make. That even with my little experience, even I know not to drink the ocean water.
 
  Let me ask you this, can you remember back to the first day you got certified? After you got certified, back then would you have drank ocean water if you were somehow stranded for 24 hours in the ocean? And right now, with you having even far more diving experience, would you right now drink ocean water if you were stranded in the ocean for 24 hours?




 One needs to watch the full movie to get an idea of how much experience the two main characters have in diving. They planned their vacation 1 year in advance. They were already certified before they made the dive shown in the movie. Theoretically this movie could have been their 2nd dive. But based on how familiar they were with their equipment, operating it, how they used underwater landmarks, shows they were not newbie divers... nor veteran divers. Just experienced divers. But for every smart thing they do, they then do a moron thing.

 Any 9 yr old knows that one cannot stand still in the ocean. The waves will push one around, even if there is no obvious current. But anyway, even after it hits them that there are currents in the ocean, hits them that they are being moved by a current, they STILL try standing still! *sigh*



 They were not wearing the usual type of life jackets. They were big enough to almost function 1 level below being a boat. They were these HUGE black floatation "backpacks", filled with supplies, diving equipment, tanks, etc... They were so big that one could not swim "normal", on one's stomach like olympic swimmers do. They had to swim on their backs (if they choose to swim above water.) Below water they can swim on their stomachs.

 They were in the water for over 24 hours. Day into night into day. Again, refer back to the 2 discrepencies in the movie I listed -

 1. A ship is shown coming towards them. The movie cuts to some other scene. Then cuts back, and ignores the scene it was showing with the ship coming towards them. What did the ship do? Go through them? Or did they refuse to go on it? Horrible editing by whoever was in the edit room working on this movie.

 2. At the start, they see 2 ships in the distance, in opposite directions. Neither ship is moving. They also see an airplane flying low. They could have swam to eiter ship (prefrebly the one closest to land.)

 3. After they discover they are being moved by a current they did not notice before, it is definatly time to start swimming.




 I fully agree with you on your last point and statements. Not all sharks are bigger than people. Even in the movie "Open Water" they got that part right. The first group of sharks they meet up with did nothing to them. Those sharks were roughly the length of 1 person, or slightly smaller. These are the type of sharks that are closest to land (though they rarely swim near the land. They hang out roughly 1 to 5 miles off of land.)

 Later on the current carries them out farther into the ocean, which is where the BIG sharks hang out. These are the sharks that grow to 15 feet, 20 feet, and longer length. They only attack people under two conditions: The people are trashing around. The people are already bleeding. They were already bleeding from being nibbled on by smaller ocean predators (the Man O' War, and others). It has been said a shark can smell 1 drop of blood over 5,000 feet away.

 But yeah, even without the shark problem, stupid people, moron people, will find some way to get into problem situations. In the end kinda nice, because it shears that part of the population off of the planet.

 Nice movie to take a date to, or to watch for free on cable, TV, or if another friend pays to rent it.

 The main thing is they came back too late. Like I said before, if your boss tells you to be at work at 9:00 am, what time will you arrive? At exactly 9:00 am? Or at 8:30 am, or even 8:45 am? You will make sure you arrive before 9:00 am. :)



 Re-watch the movie. There were two groups of sharks. The first group of sharks appeared first, back when they were closer to land. Those sharks were smaller, and just splashed around, and swam by them.

 Later, after the ocean current carried them out further and deeper into the ocean, a second group of sharks appeared. This second group was far, far, bigger. They were your Tiger Sharks. Tiger Sharks are not the only ones that will attack human-sized prey. So will Mako Sharks, and of course the most famous sharks.




 Yes, their argument was very realistic. Especially the part where the guy kept yelling his Barbarian yell. "Are you finnished?" she says to him heheh. She was "accidently strong" in the same way Sigurney Weaver's character in the first Alien movie was "accidently" strong. She never looked for action, wanted to avoid it. But when faced with no choice, did what had to be done. Both of them were strong. Both of them were also weak (she was the one who drank the ocean water because she felt thirsty).

Wrong.  They saw ships on the horizon, which is probably 2-3 miles away.  No idea if they're moving or not, and with an ocean current tugging on you you're going nowhere fast, no matter how good of a swimmer you are.


Swim where?  This is after the ships are gone.  They have no point of reference as to where land even is, and again, they've got a current to contend with, so they could be going nowhere.  And when you're stranded in the middle of the ocean with no help in sight the prudent thing to do is to not go splashing around.

And you're right, you are a newbie diver =P

Seriously, just stop while you're ahead.

This particular Navy doctrine is blaimed by shark experts to be one of the largest factors in so many people getting attacked.

What they said.

On the Great Barrier Reef off Queensland, 20 divers on one boat is considered small.  They go through HUGE numbers of divers there every year.  Friends of mine dove off a boat that had something like 40-50 people on it.  There were so many, instead of the boat sitting in 1 spot and everyone diving off 1-2 at a time off the side, the boat puttered along at 1-2 knots and people continually jumped off the back, bit like a skydive.

There are some real, real cowboys operating off north Queensland.  Lets not talk about the 'Youve spent 1 hour in a pool at the hotel, you're ok for diving' operations.

On a boat of that size, 20 divers was far too many.  It looked like some people could barely move while everyone was getting ready.  On a huge dive boat, yeah, you could handle more, that still doesn't make it right.