f13.net

So, it I theoretically couldn't stand the shortage of CRPGs on the PC anymore and would be willing to shell out money for one console for the sole purpose of playing CRPGS, which one should it be?

I avoided consoles till now like the devil shuns holy water, so I have absolutely no clue whatsoever and am man enough to admit it.

Geez, I would say a slim PS2.  The number of rpg's in the ps2 library is amazing.

If you care about HDTV graphics, then an XBOX360.  But who really cares about 1080p when they play an rpg?  It's all about the story, right?

I believe the correct answer is PS2.  XBox has always seemed to be primarily for sport/fps titles, tho I hear the 360 is changing that some.  PS2 will have more RPGs than you can shake a Wiimote at.

--
Alkiera

Hey, those "C"s in front of the RPG are going to have little in common.  Most console rpgs play a lot different than the fare that's been released on computers over the past 10 years.

PS2 has some of the best RPGs I've ever played.  You really can not go wrong with a PS2 unless you've got a real aversion to all things Japanese.

What Rasix said. You'd have to be somewhat open minded about Japan.

There are RPG's with that could hold your hand a bit in that area though ;).

Rogue Galaxy and Devil Summoner (or most in the Megami Tensei series, for that matter) are two Japanese RPG's with worlds and characters that shouldn't completely scare you away. And they're very good (haven't finished DS yet myself though). They're sci-fi though, so maybe that might not be your thing. Also, they have real time combat systems. Rogue Galaxy is a borderline action game.

Dragon Quest VIII is pretty much the epitome of what an old school console rpg is (but good for you, it's fairly new. You won't have to deal with old school graphics. OTOH, the art style could push you away).

--

Gladius and Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance (1 and 2) are western flavored. One's a tactical/strategy rpg, the other's a button mashing romp.

JRPGs have taught me that Japanese have huge baseball-sized eyes, and that it is permissible (nay, mandatory) to be attracted to 14 years old wearing sailor skirts that, in the most optimal posture and considerations, would barely cover their underwear.  Between that and that godawful movie Babel (and the Harvard Square store called "Tokyo Kid" where the display window has schoolgirls statuettes bending over), I'm not surprised when Japan gets a bad cultural rep.   :|

Thanks. I guess I will wait how good the software backwards compatibility of the European PS3 works, then. Dragon Quest 8 and Rogue Galaxy look quite promising. Although I'm also intrigued by Zelda, but I couldn't name a second Wii Rpg that interests me at the moment.

That's because there isn't a second RPG for Wii to my knowledge.

PS2 has a TON of RPGs. The XBOX had less but they are closer to the PC style you're probably used to. IE, no random battles, etc.

PS2, no question.  Anyone that takes another position is on crack.  Well, someone might make the argument for a PS3, however PS2 games in a PS3 are not magically region-free so consider carefully.

I'm not sure I want to start suggesting games, partly because you didn't ask and partly because there's a lot of ground to cover.  True, it's mostly Japanese ground, but there's a lot.  I'd also suggest some PS1 RPGs and that might make some people's heads hurt.

Or just stick with the peecee if you don't like jrpg (ecch!). While they're not all rpgs, I have more games than time to play them. Have you played Gothic 3 yet?

It should be mentioned too that Rogue Galaxy and DQVIII are made by the same developer - Level 5 (DQ itself is old though, they had nothing to do with the others). There are similiarties in the story telling, scripting, and world structure, but Rogue is action heavy and DQ is turn based.

Both good choices, and a cool way to examine the two main types of console rpgs out there.

Yes, for the largest number of RPG titles, the PS2 is going to win that one. There is no other RPG right now on the Wii besides Zelda. The 360 with X-Box backwards compatibility could give you some titles, but you'll have more on the PS2.

I've pretty much tapped out the PC RPG games. Don't get me wrong, I have enough other games that occupy my time quite nicely. But I want to put my teeth into some nice RPGs with meaty story. And yes, I played and finished Gothic 3.

The Wii will be getting the new Paper Mario soon. Add that on to Zelda, if you wish.

After that, not much else.

360 has nothing of consequence at the moment, but upcoming titles will be Mass Effect, Blue Dragon, and possibly (?) Eternal Sonata. Also, Bioshock. If you want to count that.

The PS3 won't have much in the way of RPG's until next year. For now, it's action, sports, and racing games from here till December.

If we ignore everything that involves a spunky teenager with improbably-colored hair on an ironclad linear quest to level up to 99 and save the world, how many RPGs is PS2 left with?  Honestly curious.

Still quite a few.

[EDIT]

The exact number would be 14   :wink:

More than 14. But yea, PS2.

There are no less than 5 SRPG/RPGs unnanounced for this year yet. But I'm not Kotaku, so that's what you're getting.

Be nice if one of them was a new ChronoTrigger...

Why would you want a second Chrono Trigger? Did you even play Chrono Cross?

Trust me, you don't want another Chrono Trigger.

Chrono Cross wasn't a terrible game, it just didn't stack up to the original.  Furthermore, another Chrono TRIGGER would be sick.  I'm not talking about some spiritual Shining Force Neo sequalization.  I'm talking about taking the original system and reusing it.  There aren't enough new games based on classic systems.  I say down with innovation and up with funnivation.

That's the most I could think of at least. But either way, we can agree that you'd be screwing yourself over by limited yourself to those games. Most of them aren't even good, let alone great.

That being said, while I don't agree with WUA's level of discretion here, it'd be nice if more JRPG's were actively geared towards an older crowd (both in style and in writing). More Hokuto, less Pretty Cure. Not to say one is better than the other, but there needs to be some balance. Seems like the people handling the type of games being imported outside of Japan just think we're all teenagers or something (or even younger). Either that, or only the most popular of the most popular adult oriented stuff gets a chance to cross the sea. It gives the wrong impression of what Japanese games and media are all about.

[EDIT] Btw, I'm talking about protagonists. Every JRPG has cool "adult" characters, but main characters not under the category WUA points out are hard to come by.

No, the entire culture is pretty much about underage sex fantasies.  Well, the parts that aren't about furry sex, tentacle sex, crazy sex themed game shows or etc...

They really are just that much more sexually free than we are.  Maybe I'm biased by having spent a year there when I was in my early 20's with lots of disposable income and free time but, it really is a different place.

The games we see here all depict androgynous teens because that's what they like and those are the games that get made and those are the games that are successful over there.

Oh I'm not saying that stuff isn't there (just like it is here), but it's also a culture that has created the likes of Toshiro Mifune, Sonny Chiba, Takashi Miike, the Transformers, Ryu, Jubei, Lone Wolf and Cub, Godzilla, Hokuto no Ken, Harlock, and the like. Hell, I'd even say Ghost in the Shell, even though it has a female lead, belongs in this category.

For some reason though, it's not easy to find that side of Japan reflected in role playing games. I see it a lot in action games however.

OTOH, I'm not even talking about pedobear or androgynous stuff. Just the large amount of "spunky teenager" oriented themes in role playing games. I don't mind it -- Final Fantasy is cool as shit. Anime wise, Naruto is cool as shit. I just wish some more crazy ass Samurai-Killing Machine-Cyberpunk-Yakuza-Giant-Robot-Guy with Big Chop Sideburns stuff came into play in JRPG's.

There's a "sexually free" culture, and then there's a culture with an aging population and a declining birthrate because they can't get anyone to stop jerking off at dirty comic books about tentacle rape long enough to impregnate a woman.  Maybe if we nuke Japan again, they'll go back to being a rapacious dictatorship and quit creeping me out.

Anyway, yeah, I like me some RPG.  I just wish there were more of them that didn't scream "I AM FOR TWELVE YEAR OLD GIRLS!" when fired up, or that weren't soul-crushingly linear.

If the people are sexually free, why are the government such utter tight-asses?

You don't think one may be related to the other?  I was stuck in a traffic jam on the equivalent of an interstate there and every car I could see on this 8 lane super-highway was white.  Except the taxi-cabs.

Pressure has to get vented somewhere.

Don't forget that Mass Effect (huge Bioware game) is coming for the 360 very, very shortly.  If you haven't played Oblivion yet it's also out for the 360 and should be released for the PS3 pretty soon as well.  Bioshock will be hitting the 360 in August, and who the hell knows about the KOTORs, or a Jade Empire sequel but I assume something in that vein has also got to be in the works.

Maybe Jade, but I'm doubting another KotoR from Bioware themselves (or another D&D title for that matter). Seems like they want to move in more original IP territory.

Shadowhearts is not for kids.  Neither is Shin Megami Tensei, whichever one you pick.  Final Fantasy XII is an amazing piece of software, no matter your tastes.  The number of things they got right with it are incredible, and it currently stands as my second favorite behind FFIV.  There's also Okami, which is a better sequel to Ocarina of Time than Wind Waker was.  Yes!  Want to fight about it?

I actually disliked FFXII, Yeg. I know I'm in the minority about that, but I do like JRPGs, and I still didn't like it. In fact, I liked FFX more --- and I didn't even like FFX at the time it came out.

My dislike of FFXII has nothing to do with the world or story though.

I am currently playing FFXII as it so happens because it came out in PAL about a week ago... and I think it's fantastic so far, and it hopefully influences the JRPG genre to move away from the random battles. What didn't you like about it Stray?

I didn't like the combat, and I didn't like the fact that there's nothing but combat in it. The only mini/side game is Bounty Hunting really.... And that's just more of the same gameplay you're doing elsewhere.

I appreciate that they were going for something real time oriented -- but other rpgs have done it better. Either give me something along the lines of what they are doing, or just stick with the old turn based model.

While I have learned to accept Real time combat in roleplaying games and it isn't a dealbreaker, I find it suboptimal in party-based games. It was already a nuisance in Dungeon Master, and the nuisance grew and grew.

It can heigthen the immersion in Single character RPGs, though.

What games did it better? This isn't me being a dick, I just want to know what they are so I can check em out. Personally I'm seeing FFXII as having near perfect combat style. It reminds me a little of the BG games actually, you move your guys about and the AI takes over to kill the easy shit, and when you really need them to do the right thing you pause the action and give the commands you need to. That's exactly what FFXII is too. In the previous FF games I realise that a lot of my combats were me just pressing the same goddamn commands every single time, having to wait for the combat to start up, having to wait while it finishes, having to wait through all the turns that are meaningless, etc. In FFX-2 I just held down the X button and ran around with memory curser on so I didn't have to do anythign at all for the normal fights. FFXII does away with the need to do even that in easy fights.

I think hybrid RT/TB games with AI to control the easy fights is the way of the future, basically.

In other words, FFXII's system attacked the symptoms rather than the disease.  It didn't make combat with trash mobs any more challenging or entertaining, it just removed most of the need for your actual imput.  To me that was the wrong way for developers to go about fixing things when they realized that 99% of the combat in their games was pointless and tedious.  They toned down the tedious, but the pointlessness is still there.

Good point, the combat could be more engaging such that you'd have reason to actually play a character, and the FF games have a way to go before they have that for anything but bosses. I still think the RT/TB hybrid with AI for allies is the way to go for group combat though. :P

Rogue Galaxy. Or Square's own Kingdom Hearts (though RG is an improvement over that). Or even Devil Summoner (though Devil Summoner's real strengths to me are other things).

RG isn't perfect by any means, but the heavy action/hack and slash thing - that's the direction I'd like real time RPG combat to go in. Both in terms of pacing and actions/input from the player, as well as monster and boss difficulty. FFXII, on the other hand, felt very uninvolved -- Input was centered around specials.....Like an MMO -- I want more action than that.

[EDIT] I can see why Squeenix didn't go fullblown ARPG for FFXII though. Probably would have caused a riot. Maybe next time...

The problem with the PS2 RPGs is that most of them are so old that they're out of print and can be a bitch to find.

Disgaea is super-rare.
Grandia 2 is ditto.
Xenogears is PS1, making it even harder, but it's really a must-play despite the dated graphics.

The Final Fantasy stuff is easy enough to find on account of having printed billions of them, but less mainstream RPGs occasionally had teensy tiny print runs, making it painful to find some of the gems.

Plus there are a whoooole lot of generic, bad RPGs floating around out there.  Be sure to dig up reviews on any you see before you buy, or you might be sad.

Disgaea has been reprinted 3 times now. Just go to Rosenqueen.com and buy it.

Personally, I was disappointed and bored with the combat of Kingdom Hearts. I don't think I'll ever be able to finish the game, as it just felt so dull to me.

Well, like I said, Rogue Galaxy is an improvement over it. It can kick your ass just as much as any beat em up --- at times. Plus, it's just an all around better game for other reasons.

That being said, if Kingdom Hearts is dull, then what is FFXII? That's all I'm really trying to measure it against (Calantus asked about real time combat, not how KH measures up against this or that SRPG).

Combat pretty much plays itself in FFXII. You cycle through a power or two, pop some potions and let the game do everything in between. That's the epitome of dull.

I like the constant participation an ARPG requires from a player over that. I like a game that will punish me for falling asleep, not blocking, not moving out of the way, etc..

And if not that, then go all out old school. At least turn based games require more tactical thinking.

See, this is just personal opinion.  I don't find mashing the x-button (add some square button mashing for flavor), while your team-mates run around like idiots, an improvement over the gambit system.  It's just a different beast altogether.   However, Rogue Galaxy's combat is a LOT better than kingdom hearts which never seemed to rise above random button mashing (comparing like systems here).  KH's camera didn't help much either.

I like interesting combat systems.  The gambit system to me was interesting.  So is RH's at times.  But really, in most RPGs, I'd prefer the gambit system.  I really don't care much about beating up on trash mobs in a RPG unless you can bring the action up to GoW quality. FFXII system during boss fights just plays out like a turn based system, except you have the luxury of instant interupts for any action.  Honestly, the problem with FXII is that it got ridiculously easy if you overleveled in the slightest.

Edit: You can still get all 3 Shadow Hearts games on gamequestdirect.com.  SH1 & 2 back-to-back is a truly marvelous experience.  SH2's judgement ring is pure awesomeness.

Well, RPG makers are going to have to continue to change the way they deal with combat and trash mobs.  I don't think that grinding through trash should be any more acceptable these days in an offline RPG than it is in an MMO, especially considering RPG's have had a much longer time to evolve than MMO's.  All these pointless encounters do is extend the play time of the game so developers can claim their RPG has over 50 hours of gameplay.  Fuck, I'll take a 10 hour RPG if it gets rid of most of the pointless shit the average RPG puts me through.  Don't even get me started on developers who load their RPG's full of "secrets" that could only realistically be found by people using guides.  Like there was any way in-game to find out that if I open one of a handful of particular chests I won't be able to get the Zodiac Spear or whatever.  The bitches are just trying to sell their $15-20 guides to people who don't want to check the guides on gamefaqs every five minutes or print out a ton of pages.

The bit about trash mobs I can agree with. Rogue Galaxy has them, sure.

But....Some of them can kick your ass easily. Especially when they're a mix of types you have to fight at the same time.

Like, when one type of mob needs a charge attack to take any damage, two other types need jumping attacks, and there's some mean ass tarantula with a shitload of hitpoints and high damage after you to boot (if you've played RG, then you know the type).

With only so much time and hitpoints, taking out these guys can be a pain. Easier said than done.

So, in fact, with that difficulty in place, they're not really trash mobs at all.

...

Boss battles aren't Shadow of the Colossus or anything, but they are a step above what most RPG's are doing. This is where RG really does a good job.

All in all, this makes for good combat. Much better than FFXII imo.
-------------

All that being said though, it could still slim off on the filler material. I get that completely. I think the next step is to make ALL battles meaningful to the narrative, and highly dramatized and scripted. I touched upon that in the Rogue Galaxy thread too.

What I'm hoping is something that plays out like that White Knight trailer (http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=13331&type=mov&pl=game), but all the time (btw, this game is being made by the Rogue Galaxy/DQ8 guys too).

I know next to nothing about that game though -- I'm just using that footage as an example. If a game had nothing but sequences like that, it'd be the polar opposite of killing trash mobs. Everything would have a point and would start feeling more like PnP.

[EDIT]

Ultimately, what I want is God of War or Devil May Cry (especially pertaining to combat feel and boss battles), with Silent Hill or RE4 levels of scripting (no random enemies that pop up or come out of the ground. I want everything I encounter to be intimately part of the storytelling), and some nicely fleshed out RPG class and character building. Toss in Adventure genre levels of character interaction (or just Bioware levels) and it'd be heaven.

You could say that I don't want an RPG at all probably.

Also, I'm probably going way out of the scope of this thread. ;)

The main question only needed a 3 letter reply to be answered, we don't need to feel guilty derailing it this far in. :P


The GoW and DMC requests I agree with, I'd like to play more games like that, but sometimes you just want to kick back and not have to work for every kill. FFXII is absolutely perfect for that, I'm just running around letting my guys fight stuff to advance the story and give me more LP to assign, with interjections of tough fights here and there. So I don't think that FFXII's combat is bad because it's not GoW level, because that's not what it's combat is for.

On the subject of trash mobs I'll have to agree there. Respawning and random battles in particular is something I've developed a dislike for. When something dies I want it to stay dead. I also don't want to have to fight every X monster from one end of the plains to the other (though I will if they're there, xp is still xp). The skeleton bridge in Lhusu Mines is a perfect example. If you've got a low level party it can be quite a fight as you slowly fight your way through the spawning skeletons to the end. But after that... why are you fighting single skeletons in the next zone? If I can kill multiples, what is the purpose of feeding me singles to munch on? And what is the purpose of the 9th solo wolf in a zone? Is that solitary wolf going to cause me trouble when I can kill him in a single round? Ideally when you get to a new zone flavour you'd come across a few singles of the monsters you are to fight so you know what they're about. Then you'd ramp it up with packs of monsters, different flavour monsters with tougher abilities, or monster comboes, perhaps finishing off with a huge meatgrinder or a long endurance/running battle. Sprinkle in some unique mobs as appropriate and that's the zone.

No, they're still trash mobs.  Difficult trash is still trash. Their sole purpose is to  pop out of the ether and just make it longer to traverse RG's bland level design.  And maybe give you that damn ribbon so C3P0 can get Eye Beam 2. The jump-to-kill and break-the-barrier mobs I just roll my eyes at.  Sorry, they're just bothersome, not challenging.  Only challenge is that mobs hit like a truck and your teammates are often too retarded to defend themselves.  Still, I've only hit gameover on that solo Deego fight when I really wasn't paying attention to how hard that bastard was hitting.

If you're looking for a model of a game with content that's interesting but goes beyond trash -> trash-> trash-> end boss, just look at Deus Ex.  I know some folks might not consider Deus Ex or System Shock 2 to be RPGS, but I consider them to be some of the best examples of RPG combat done right. This may also be due to the sneakiness factor and that the way you fight is chosen a great deal about how you make your character with the option of choosing the right kind of attack for a certain fight. 

I guess we can agree to disagree here.  I don't thing RG's combat bring anything noteworthy to the genre that we really haven't seen before.  If it were a bit closer to X-Men Legends 2 type of combat (better integration of powers, destructable environments, combos, etc), I might like it a bit better.  That being said, I don't think it makes the game worse, because I still think quite a bit of the game.

This is just making me salivate for March 13, you know.

Eh, I like X Men Legends, and even though they're in the same vein, that's the kind of ARPG experience that I'd consider inferior. Sure, the levels are designed well, but the combat is pretty mindless and easy. You can literally plow through those Marvel games (and I'm not going to even mention Jean Grey...).


Well, I think the challenge is when those mob types are mixed together. You have to change modes quickly when switching targets, or you find yourself doing jump or charge attacks on the wrong dudes. So it's the sense of confusion that I like there. Also, I like the fact that it's often necessary to block the attacks of these guys (because they do hit like a truck, like you said), instead of just relying on attacks getting through.

I'm not saying RG is hard to the point that I get stomped to death or anything, but I do find it more challenging than just bashing on everything without a care in the world. I like minions to be tough. I LIKE to be cockblocked by these worthless minions somewhat (else, what's the point of having them there to begin with?). I want it to be even harder.

Also, I'm not saying RG is perfect -- but it has it's moments. And those moments are just a case study and a leading off point for me. I want smaller mobs in games to be even less transparent and more intelligent. Instead of just requiring charge or jump attacks (or whatever), I want an even larger pallette of tactics needed to use against them. I want them all to be mini bosses, highly scripted -- but in less numbers.

[EDIT] I think we're more in agreement than we aren't. We both want something that aspires to a PnP experience, where even the average encounter at lvl 1 isn't a breeze like it is in CRPGs -- and where there are few, if any, "trash mobs".

I'm just saying that the game I have in mind would use a challenging action oriented combat system to accomplish that (among other things). RG isn't that game at all -- It's just, as I said, a leading off point for me in this discussion.

Yeah, and oddly enough I lean towards the Wii anyway. The virtual console stuff sounds like it would be easier getting old games than digging around for old PS2 games around here (I'd have to order all of them online, most either in England or even the US). Plus some Nonrpgs sound fun to have a go at with multiple people in the house.

What thus thread showed me is that console RPGs are overrated for the most part anyway and have little to do with classic crpgs (c=computer). Might as well jump into the cold water and play some funny innovative games.

Hmm, well, wishing for a better game aside, I find the combat in FFXII to be much, much better than any of it since the introduction of ATB, and before even.  I find it much less engaging than Vagrant Story or FFT, though.  I'm OK with fixing the symptoms; gottta start somewhere, and being able to program my team is better than pressing X with memory cursor turned on, which is what I was doing in the last one I played (FFVII).  I like FFXII for the ways it improved on the series, and the genre conventions in general.  It's a first, really.  Also, the amount of detail in the game is impressive; spend some time looking around outside and you can see other areas at times, and not just the one you are about to zone into.  The story isn't retarded, either.  I do have numerous complaints about it, but I will save those for later.


You should note that you are getting comments from the JRPG equivalent of the F13 MMO Burnouts here.  However, you are correct in that there isn't anything like Might & Magic VIII on the PS2 that I am aware of (thank God).  Maybe you should check out Romance of the Three Kingdoms X?  I'd call that a RPG, and it's not really like the others since it's a historical simulation with army-level combat most of the time.  If you want engaging combat of the usual nature, you can't get better than Shin Megami Tensei, if you ask me.  Shadowhearts 1&2 are probably better overall RPGs, but that's going to be very subjective.

Hey, I'm not the biggest RPG fan or anything...I think you're better off playing "funny innovative games" --- But, you're also wrong. There are console RPG's worth looking into, and they are far from overrated. They wouldn't have stuck around for 20+ years if that wasn't the case.

Overrated meaning "Not worth buying a console just for that". I won't get old RPG games over here, the secondary market just isn't large enough. I never ever saw Disgaea in a shop for sale, none of the multiple revisions that came out. Everything I find is German, and I hate playing foreign games in German translation. I will have to order everything online in shops that specifically take overseas orders without making you poor in the process. Which means Europe only. which basically means Great Britain only.

So I am mostly confined to current titles, which in quantity suck as much on consoles as they do on the PC. I was more optimistic a few days ago, but after browsing many shops that optimism is gone.

Fair enough. I wouldn't buy a console just for RPGs either, especially if they were overpriced and a bitch to get.

Yeah, I don't like any of that stuff. I liked Godzilla when I was five, but even then I realized how shitty it was.
Play on the highest difficulty. And don't take the "I WIN" characters ;)

You don't like what? Toshiro, Takashi, or Hokuto?

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you?

It's one thing to hate some Chibi All Stars shit --- But that list above? You're out of your mind. I don't think you even know what half of those things are, because if you did, you wouldn't hate them. They're unhateable.

I never said I hated them. Just not my taste.

I know what most of those things are. I do not like them.

I guess the fuck that is wrong with me is that I'm not Stray?

Right on. You're not Stray. That is exactly your problem.  :evil:

Seriously though....

Toshiro Mifune. That's like not being impressed by Bogart, Eastwood, Wayne, and Shakespeare.

What comes out March 13?

(http://www.nlgaming.com/games/3781/logo/logo.jpg)

AKA the next reason to buy a PS2.

Keke.

Sky hates Japan.

Also, X-Men Legends, MUA and the like...sorry, they fucking sucked balls for me.

Ahhh...I still haven't ever played the first one.

Must... resist... urge... to... accuse... Riggswolfe... of... not... being... a... gamer...

I hear good things but I just haven't been motivated enough honestly. Probably because I'm so hooked on the 360. That and I heard it was short and short games are my pet peeve.

Honestly, I haven't played it either. I played about 30 seconds of the demo for GoW2, messed with the combat controls a bit, had the controls strike me as being "spammy," and got pulled away to attend to something.

I'll probably play both games eventually, but I've already got a larger stack than I can deal with. And I started to play HoMMV again. And I bought the expansion for it. And I bought the Gal Civ II Gold pack.

No Time.

Just give God of War at least enough time to get to the Hydra. Which is about 15 minutes.

HoMMV and GalCiv combined are not as good as God of War. God of War is also a one sitting game. If you say you have no time...


...you're lying.

Yeah, pretty much.

I'm just tired of telling people that. Heh.

Yeah, I'll probably take a copy out when I go in today, as I don't have to be back in until Friday.

I mean, it couldn't hurt I suppose.

I have the original still sitting unopened on the game-holdy-mathingy with about ten other unopened games.  My consoles are getting very dusty.  My motivation level is way down for everything lately.  I need a vacation, I think.  Scotland in April for the in-laws 50th wedding anniversary, England for a couple of days to see friends and maybe a quickie to Amsterdam, too.  Actually, that might make it worse.  I'm exhausted thinking about all that traveling.

This one sentence is why I haven't bought it. If Blockbuster has it in I might rent it but I'm not parting with my money for something that will only take me a single Saturday to beat. It's the same reason I didn't get Tomb Raider Legend even though the demo was quite fun.The reviews said it was a <10 hour game which totally turns me off.

Fuck. I'd buy the shit for you if I could.

It's only a one sitting game if you are good at those sorts of platform games. I got stuck on the part where you have to dive under a bunch of sliding pillars and haven't played it since. The combat part is easy -- it's the time-dependent platforming crap that annoys the heck out of me. DMC had a much better balance, in my opinion. Some jumping puzzles but that's about it -- i.e. it was almost all about killing stuff which is how it should be.

TRL took me a lot longer than 10 hours as well though part of the problem was the fucked up camera angles in one of the motorcycle levels.

Edit: typos

DMC is all a lot harder as well. At least 3 is.

Personally, I think it's much better than GoW, but both are must play games if you have a PS2.

Heh yeah, DMC 3 is really hard (for me). I was referring to DMC 1, though 2 was easy as well.

I played the first DMC and maybe the 2nd. I enjoyed the visceral action in the game. Don't get me wrong, GoW just sounds awesome, I just dislike short games. If I find it for $15 though I'll probably pick it up.

This thread is making me want to break out a DMC or Onimusha game and replay them.

DMC3 is a big improvment over 2 and even 1. 2 wasn't that good imo.

But like I said, it can be really tough (even in Normal mode). It should last a bit.

[EDIT] God of War makes up for all this because of it's presentation though. DMC doesn't have the cool panouts, the epic score, the same sense of scale, not much scenery or a coherent world, etc.. GoW is a cool experience all around, while DMC is the better, deeper, and more challenging game.

Just play God of War through the first boss.  Not a big commitment.

It's been 20 bucks for at least a year.  Like 17 if you get it used.

It took me 10-15 hours to beat (I think).  10 at the shortest.  But I play in 1 to 2 hour chunks and I'm not a badass at these games.

Back on the subject of console RPGs for a sec, it looks like not only will Blue Dragon hit the States in August, but Lost Odyssey will also be getting a worldwide release this fall.  I really wasn't expecting Lost Odyssey to get released here that soon.

Lost Odyssey - supposedly - has been produced in English alongside Japanese for most of development.

Mistwalker has a lot of work to do to become the new Square-Enix, and at the moment, they seem to be doing things Very Right. Also, they need to hit Christmas in America. Japan won't really buy enough to matter I don't think (maybe they will). Releasing Blue Dragon during the slow summer months is brilliant.

I was expecting Blue Dragon to hit before the end of the year, and it got pretty good reviews in Japan from Famitsu.  I think that the 360 having two major RPG's hit in the second half of '07 though is a huge deal and will do a lot to make the 360 appeal to a broader audience come Christmas.  Hironobu Sakaguchi also said at GDC today that he wants to make an MMO for the 360.

A little off topic, but I just realized today that Mistwalker mainly functions as a design team -- they outsource the development to other teams.

Are there other game studios that do that (and by game studios, I don't mean studios big enough to be a publisher)?