Title: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Bandit on March 01, 2007, 07:29:47 AM Received this little gem today...
Quote Station Access™ subscription price increase effective April 2, 2007. Dear Station Access™ Subscriber, We want to give you some important information regarding your Station Access subscription. Effective April 2, 2007, the new monthly subscription rate will be US$29.99 per month (not including applicable taxes). We know that rate adjustments are never popular, but the increase is driven by our desire to provide our Station Access subscribers with a consistently high quality entertainment experience, as evidenced by our most recent addition to the Station Access subscription plan, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes™. You don't have to do a thing; you will automatically be migrated to the new monthly subscription rate under your existing subscription plan when your current subscription plan comes up for renewal on or after April 2, 2007. We appreciate your support and continued participation in our community. Station Access subscriptions are recurring, meaning you will continue to be billed at the appropriate subscription interval, until you affirmatively cancel your subscription. Subscription fees are subject to tax and value-added tax, as applicable. The subscription charges are in addition to the cost of the games that are part of the Station Access subscription plan. All game software is sold separately. For more information, please visit: www.stationaccess.com. Citing Vanguard as a reason for a price increase is hardly fair...less than a year ago they used the same excuse to bump it from $19.99 to $24.99...besides the fact that Vanguard at release - well I don't need to get into that one. The inevitable shitstorm of a thread has erupted on the EQ2 forums. For those that care, which I don't suspect many do, they are increasing the base subscription costs of the PS2 Everquest Online Adventures by a few dollars...humourous. They had better be adding Gods & Heroes to the Station Access or something. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Nebu on March 01, 2007, 07:37:05 AM In order for this to be an even "reasonable" value, SOE would have to have at least 3 games on the Station Pass worth playing. EQ is getting old, EQ2 is a ways out from expansion, and Vanguard... meh.
Good luck with this one SOE. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 01, 2007, 07:45:55 AM I'll be cancelling my Pass. Probably stick with EQ2. Gotta get PS fixed for the last month of my pass!
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Bandit on March 01, 2007, 07:55:48 AM Yeah, I will likely just drop to the EQ2 subscription as well. For the same amount of money, I could subscibe to EQ2 and anyanother reasonable MMO out their CoX/WoW/Eve.
I did play and enjoy Planetside from time to time, and have been dabbling a bit in Vanguard - but not enough to justify the extra cash. Matrix Online just isn't gonna keep me going, I just can't help but feel duped a bit. A bait-and-switch tactic. Putting out some cash for Vanguard...even knowing the troubles it had, just because I thought oh well I have Station Access now, I won't have to worry about the sub costs. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Falconeer on March 01, 2007, 08:05:29 AM Citing Vanguard as a reason for a price increase is hardly fair...less than a year ago they used the same excuse to bump it from $19.99 to $24.99 Exactly my point. This is, once again, pathetic. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Surlyboi on March 01, 2007, 08:07:36 AM In order for this to be an even "reasonable" value, SOE would have to have at least 3 games on the Station Pass worth playing. EQ is getting old, EQ2 is a ways out from expansion, and Vanguard... meh. Good luck with this one SOE. But but but, you've also got SWG and MxO and all the wonderful free station games! Surely they're worth the price increase! Heh, I don't think I could find a shade green enough for the above statement. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Nyght on March 01, 2007, 08:10:53 AM They are betting 2/3 of Pass players will stick and only 1/3 or less will drop to a single sub to be revenue neutral. Sounds like a dangerous bet to me.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Simond on March 01, 2007, 08:28:16 AM Vanguard is clearly massively underperforming, subs-wise.
If I were a Sigil employee, I'd be looking for a new job right now. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Bandit on March 01, 2007, 08:57:22 AM Most likely they will announce the addition of Gods & Heroes, or the unknown spy MMO ( http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=22677 (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=22677))...and possibly add the EQPlayers/VGPlayers features as part of Station Access (which should be free IMO). Still tough pilll to swallow, whatever spin they put on it.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Alkiera on March 01, 2007, 09:05:05 AM IIRC, EQPlayers stuff is already in the Station Pass. At least, it used to be.
-- Alkiera Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Bandit on March 01, 2007, 09:17:38 AM They have some basic stuff you can access, and had the some of the other features (leaderboards, achievements, etc.) for free for a while but check out...
http://stationplayers.station.sony.com/en/ (http://stationplayers.station.sony.com/en/) They nickel and dime you hardcore for it, 0.99/month a feature, or all of em for $2.99 a month. That's just for EQ2, if you want Vanguard and EQ1 Players full featured - then pay more. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Morat20 on March 01, 2007, 09:36:13 AM In order for this to be an even "reasonable" value, SOE would have to have at least 3 games on the Station Pass worth playing. EQ is getting old, EQ2 is a ways out from expansion, and Vanguard... meh. Good luck with this one SOE. But but but, you've also got SWG and MxO and all the wonderful free station games! Surely they're worth the price increase! Heh, I don't think I could find a shade green enough for the above statement. Smed's more or less said they feel they can nickel and dime you out of money, and as long as it's small changes, you'll pay it. Let's see how many Station Pass frogs notice he's turned up the burner. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Strazos on March 01, 2007, 10:12:24 AM I still cannot believe they're raising the sub cost for PS....but then also axing the Reserves program...
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Falconeer on March 01, 2007, 10:59:30 AM SOE politics are a mistery to me.
Did you know that there's no trial program for MxO? Or what about the trial keys that Station Pass subscribers received a while ago and are now expired (yes, they are like cheese or eggs. They expire)? Seriously, do they expect people to buy MxO without trying? Based on what then, good word of mouth? Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Furiously on March 01, 2007, 11:03:42 AM SOE politics are a mistery to me. Did you know that there's no trial program for MxO? Or what about the trial keys that Station Pass subscribers received a while ago and are now expired (yes, they are like cheese or eggs. They expire)? Seriously, do they expect people to buy MxO without trying? Based on what then, good word of mouth? http://www.fileplanet.com/162966/160000/fileinfo/The-Matrix-Online-Trial (http://www.fileplanet.com/162966/160000/fileinfo/The-Matrix-Online-Trial) edit - nevermind - it's closed. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Woody on March 01, 2007, 11:04:48 AM Smedley jumped the shark this time. Too many schemes to separate you from your nickels and dimes, not enough good gaming.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Numtini on March 01, 2007, 11:06:50 AM I wonder what percentage of players are stuck on the pass to get the extra slots in EQ2 and will lose their alts if they cancel.
But this is exactly why people hate SOE. The nickel and diming for their (usually not working) eqplayers services. The little calculations to drag a tiny bit more money out of you. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Falconeer on March 01, 2007, 11:07:35 AM Yeah Furiously, I forgot to mention that they advertised a trial program hugely in home page that... closed 2 months before!
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Miasma on March 01, 2007, 11:12:56 AM In order for this to be an even "reasonable" value, SOE would have to have at least 3 games on the Station Pass worth playing. EQ is getting old, EQ2 is a ways out from expansion, and Vanguard... meh. Yeah, the only way the station pass could merit thirty bucks a month is if they tried to bump up the price of all the separate games by a few dollars and I sincerely doubt they would try that.Good luck with this one SOE. And those station player extras for $0.99 are all crap. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Dundee on March 01, 2007, 11:28:28 AM I still cannot believe they're raising the sub cost for PS....but then also axing the Reserves program... Seriously? (edit to clarify the focal point of my surprise) Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 01, 2007, 11:38:01 AM Quote Dear PlanetSide Subscriber, Not only does that suck, I forgot I have 'extra' characters in EQ2 because of the pass. Shit. I guess it's time to get my fix of all Sony games this month, because I'm out next month. Axing half my characters in EQ2 isn't a way to keep me around, eh?We want to give you some important information regarding your PlanetSide subscription. Effective April 2, 2007, the new monthly subscription rate will increase by US$2.00 to US$14.99 per month (not including applicable taxes). The new subscription rates will apply to all PlanetSide subscription plans including multi-month subscriptions (please see new rates listed below). We know that rate increases are never popular but over the course of the past several years we have invested in technology and resources to expand the game's service and support infrastructure. We have also incurred increases in operational and bandwidth costs – all without a corresponding rate increase for PlanetSide. We are proud of the progress we have made for you, our customers, in the areas of game experience and customer support enhancements and efficiency. This change is driven by our sincere commitment to provide a consistently high quality entertainment experience in our game worlds. You don't have to do a thing; you will automatically be migrated to the new rate under your existing subscription plan when your current subscription plan comes up for renewal on or after April 2, 2007. We appreciate your support and look forward to your continued participation in the world of PlanetSide. New PlanetSide subscription rates as of April 2, 2007 Monthly Subscription Plan: US$14.99 per month Multi-month Subscription Plans: $41.99 – 3 Month Subscription $77.99 – 6 Month Subscription $143.99 – 12 Month Subscription PlanetSide subscriptions are recurring, meaning you will continue to be billed at the appropriate subscription interval, until you affirmatively cancel your subscription. Subscription fees are subject to tax and value-added tax, as applicable. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Ixxit on March 01, 2007, 11:44:31 AM Quote Not only does that suck, I forgot I have 'extra' characters in EQ2 because of the pass. Shit. I guess it's time to get my fix of all Sony games this month, because I'm out next month. Axing half my characters in EQ2 isn't a way to keep me around, eh? You will also lose access to the 3 'Adventure Packs' when you cancel the All Access Pass, unless of course you purchased them separately. [EDIT] It will be interesting to see how NCSoft reponds pricewise with their upcoming NC All plan. I think Sony has finally crossed the Nickle and Diming threshold with this increase for many people. Most people probably only play 2 and possibly three of the games and many just want the extra character slots. Sure it's a 'good value' if you are playing the whole library, but even if they were all great games, who the hell is going to play 6 mmos anyway? Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: shiznitz on March 01, 2007, 12:03:27 PM I don't disagree that this is a big jump, but it was inevitable with VG being included. When was the last increase? 3 years ago? Many things have increased in price 20% in the last 3 years. Console prices almost doubled this cycle. $29.99 is jusy low enough to keep me on the hook because I play EQ2, VG and Ps (infrequently).
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Ixxit on March 01, 2007, 12:09:16 PM I don't disagree that this is a big jump, but it was inevitable with VG being included. When was the last increase? 3 years ago? Many things have increased in price 20% in the last 3 years. Console prices almost doubled this cycle. $29.99 is jusy low enough to keep me on the hook because I play EQ2, VG and Ps (infrequently). Although I think the original justifaction for the price increase from $19.99 to $24.99 was that Vanguard was going to be included in the future. I can't remember when the first increase was I am pretty sure it was when SOE acquired Vanguard (although my memory could be faulty). Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Bandit on March 01, 2007, 12:14:16 PM I don't disagree that this is a big jump, but it was inevitable with VG being included. When was the last increase? 3 years ago? Many things have increased in price 20% in the last 3 years. Console prices almost doubled this cycle. $29.99 is jusy low enough to keep me on the hook because I play EQ2, VG and Ps (infrequently). Less than a year ago, they upped it from like 19.99 or 21.99 to 24.99.....and they cited VG at that time. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Venkman on March 01, 2007, 12:21:41 PM Definitely an indication where a good chunk of their money is coming from then. No way they could raise it by so much while trying to entice more people to sign on. So they must be happy with how many people have signed on, maybe enough so knowing they'll lose a mere pittance.
When was it $19.99 though? I only remember it ever being $21.99 and then going to $24.99? That's neither here nor there. I'm just curious. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Ixxit on March 01, 2007, 12:25:15 PM I think it was $19.99 around the time EQ II was released (and then raised to 21.99). EQ II was used as the justification of course, again if memory serves correctly (which it often doesn't).
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Falconeer on March 01, 2007, 12:26:30 PM Yeah Shiznit, they raised to 24.99 last May (9 months ago) and cited Vanguard as the main reason. I think it's time for me to cut the crap and cancel this.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 01, 2007, 12:38:14 PM You will also lose access to the 3 'Adventure Packs' when you cancel the All Access Pass, unless of course you purchased them separately. I haven't checked them out in ages, the first time I dabbled with adventure pack material, it didn't seem very solo-friendly.Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Falconeer on March 01, 2007, 12:39:09 PM Followup (and correction) to self.
This is the mail I received May, 2nd, 2006 (so 10, not 9, months ago). Vanguard and upcoming games are not mentioned here. Quote CUSTOMER SERVICE NOTIFICATION We will be increasing our Station Access subscription rate in June. Effective June 1, 2006, the new monthly subscription rate will be $24.99/month. While this announcement may be unpleasant, we have added several games to the Station Access subscription package and the cost of operating the game service for the games included in the Station Access subscription package has increased significantly since we launched Station Access. This change will help us achieve our goal of seeing that every player has a consistently enjoyable experience in our game worlds. You don’t have to do a thing; you will automatically be migrated to the new billing structure under your current subscription plan when your current subscription plan expires. Subscription rates are subject to tax and value-added taxes, as applicable. Still, I was trying to dig up on the SOE forum the message Brenlo put up to explain the reasons (as I am sure he mentioned Vanguard and probably Gods n' Heroes) but I guess the new money are not in yet cause this is how www.station.com appears to me right now when I try to open it with Mozilla (latest version): (http://www.harnmaster.it/forum/uploads/post-8-1172781366.jpg) Of course I thought something was weird, so I tried to open it with IE explorer (latest version). I was right! Now you can see the improvements: (http://www.harnmaster.it/forum/uploads/post-8-1172781382.jpg) I won't cancel anymore after seeing this. It's obvious they need my money. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 01, 2007, 12:44:35 PM Same in Safari/OSX.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Nebu on March 01, 2007, 01:09:34 PM It's a shame, especially the Planetside part. The game is still a fun diversion, but not at the new prices. I've officially cancelled everything with SoE and hope that others do the same.
Vanguard's failure is bad. Vanguard as the anchor around the ankles of the other SOE titles makes things even worse. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Falconeer on March 01, 2007, 01:28:57 PM Speaking of SOE, they recently aquired Star Chamber (http://starchamber.station.sony.com/features.vm), a very interesting Trading Card Game that achieved quite a deserved indie success and led to the acquisition of Worlds Apart which completed Pirates CSG (http://piratesonline.station.sony.com/) under the SOE flag.
My point is that SOE really has a broad choice of games. Too bad the station pass has nothing to do with these. Star Chamber is lovely, and for the price increase I could enjoy a free booster each month. Too bad this is not the case. We are paying 5 dollars more for... nothing. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Ixxit on March 01, 2007, 01:34:50 PM It's funny how with NC All, Conan, and WAR on the horizon, BC on the shelves, and LotrO introducing retro pricing for pre orders as well as being poised to be a minor hit, how Sony continues to leech every cent from their clientele without offering anything in return. I think it's finally all starting to circle the bowel.
I think 2008 will be a very bad year for SOE. Or maybe they are getting the same deal as Uwe Boll. Failure = Money. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Falconeer on March 01, 2007, 01:47:55 PM Well, you know. They have Gods 'n Heroes, the DC Comics MMO, the Spy MMO and a possible fourth mystery MMO (assuming the espionage one and the mysterious one won't turn out being the same) coming.
There's room for lotsa more suckage. And more Station pass price increase. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Venkman on March 01, 2007, 01:56:02 PM They are shorting themselves by making such a big price increase, but perhaps they wanted to prevent making a bunch of micro-increases. They may realize that any price increase is going to cause a furor, so rather than having that furor once every year to raise the price $1.00/mo, they just dump a $5.00/mo increase and not have to worry about a furor or another 2-3 years at least.
But I'd rather they focus on attracting new accounts to their games than trying to ply who they have because the latter group is not sustainable even without increases. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 01, 2007, 02:00:03 PM Still waiting to hear if EQ2 also bumped up the prices, not that it matters if they axe half my characters...
What really bums me out is that EQ2 has a great dev team. Folks like them will be the ones who take the hit for these bone-headed money grabs. Some suit will probably get an early retirement with a golden parachute for giving it a try. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Hound on March 01, 2007, 02:12:50 PM I just wonder who the hell over there came up with this shit storm of a idea, whoever it was he or she is needs to be shown the door in a most unpleasant way. They could not have picked a worse time in my opinion. First Vanguard launches with maybe a quarter of expected sales and is bleeding subs like a severed carotid artery and Turbine is launching LoTRO which is taking dead aim at the WoW/EQII crowd and giving a ten dollar a month plan for pre orders. What are they trying to do self immolate or fall on their fucking pixilated sword maybe?
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Woody on March 01, 2007, 02:15:11 PM I just wonder who the hell over there came up with this shit storm of a idea, whoever it was he or she is needs to be shown the door in a most unpleasant way. They could not have picked a worse time in my opinion. First Vanguard launches with maybe a quarter of expected sales and is bleeding subs like a severed carotid artery and Turbine is launching LoTRO which is taking dead aim at the WoW/EQII crowd and giving a ten dollar a month plan for pre orders. What are they trying to do self immolate or fall on their fucking pixilated sword maybe? IMHO, this just reeks of Smedley Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Alkiera on March 01, 2007, 02:31:23 PM Still waiting to hear if EQ2 also bumped up the prices, not that it matters if they axe half my characters... What really bums me out is that EQ2 has a great dev team. Folks like them will be the ones who take the hit for these bone-headed money grabs. Some suit will probably get an early retirement with a golden parachute for giving it a try. If this works as I suspect, your alts will just be 'hidden', and if you later re-sub to the all access pass, they'll still be there, not deleted. Something like this happened to me when a server was down; I made a 5th character to play and after my server came up, it (the newest character) got pushed off the bottom. -- Alkiera Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Venkman on March 01, 2007, 04:28:56 PM I just got the PS email: $14.99 for a game who's sub should be decreasing?! I mean, sure they think if people are sticking with that beast now they'll obviously pay anything. But in this age of free MMOs with item-based rev models, the last thing anyone should do is raise flat-fees. That's a great way to show how dated you are and why people shouldn't be supporting you.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Dundee on March 01, 2007, 04:48:03 PM I just got the PS email: $14.99 for a game who's sub should be decreasing?! I mean, sure they think if people are sticking with that beast now they'll obviously pay anything. But in this age of free MMOs with item-based rev models, the last thing anyone should do is raise flat-fees. That's a great way to show how dated you are and why people shouldn't be supporting you. Maybe the $30 pass looks better with PS at $15... Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Hound on March 01, 2007, 05:07:53 PM I just wonder who the hell over there came up with this shit storm of a idea, whoever it was he or she is needs to be shown the door in a most unpleasant way. They could not have picked a worse time in my opinion. First Vanguard launches with maybe a quarter of expected sales and is bleeding subs like a severed carotid artery and Turbine is launching LoTRO which is taking dead aim at the WoW/EQII crowd and giving a ten dollar a month plan for pre orders. What are they trying to do self immolate or fall on their fucking pixilated sword maybe? IMHO, this just reeks of Smedley probably had the idea just after he explained to the board of directors why giving McQuaid a few million and publishing Vanguard was such a great idea. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Simond on March 01, 2007, 05:11:00 PM ETA on EQ/EQ2/etcl monthly sub going up to $17.50?
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Venkman on March 01, 2007, 05:31:34 PM I just got the PS email: $14.99 for a game who's sub should be decreasing?! I mean, sure they think if people are sticking with that beast now they'll obviously pay anything. But in this age of free MMOs with item-based rev models, the last thing anyone should do is raise flat-fees. That's a great way to show how dated you are and why people shouldn't be supporting you. Maybe the $30 pass looks better with PS at $15... It's just a shame they we're their greed on their sleeve. At least other companies make an attempt to not be such bankers about things. Doesn't bother me personally of course. I've gone through their library and save EQ2, which I'd be playing except for WoW, TR (oops) and so on, there's nothing I find compelling. I've long said if they took their business acumen and applied it to hiring better developers they'd not need to continue hiring business managers to find new and creative ways to leech pennies off of who they've managed to keep. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Nyght on March 01, 2007, 05:49:43 PM Maybe the $30 pass looks better with PS at $15... I don't think so. I think the point was, it was a discount from two games. A discount from more then that kinda narrows the interest down considerably don't cha think? Because the market with the time for three or more is lot smaller. They don't have the time for two mostly likely, they just think they do. So fine, you bump all the games up so that is goes back to being a discount from two, you are still just begging people to consider the competition, which grows all the time. Hitting a middle price point below the cost of two while still picking up some revenue would have been a better move in my view. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Falconeer on March 01, 2007, 11:57:42 PM Maybe the $30 pass looks better with PS at $15... So they could raise MxO subscription to 50$/month. No one is playing that anyway, and the station pass would look so valuable then. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: bhodi on March 02, 2007, 12:16:56 AM Planetside is about to start hemorrhaging customers. Their fodder program (free to BR6) is going to end on March 23rd, with no current plans to continue it. The worlds are already pretty quiet except for peak times during the evening, and that's bolstered by all of the free accounts logging in. I'm sure there are plans to merge the servers, some sort of merger/cross combat was hinted at, but that won't be until May-June timeframe (they want to do something special for their anniversary). You've got a decent gap there.
Some of those people will sub (I did, for a bit) but get this -- they pre-fucked themselves with the transition. It turns out that on the 23rd, all reserve characters will be wiped; you have to subscribe BEFORE that date to play your reserves character, they currently have no transition plan from reserves->subscribers. That will hurt them. A lot. Without that fresh influx of people, I think the game will quietly drop in numbers once the fodder program stops bringing fresh meat into the system. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Strazos on March 02, 2007, 01:37:15 AM And to go along with that, the vast majority of the people who remain will be long-time vets, who know all the nice little exploits and hacks.
Could make the game extremely frustrating, without the fresher new players to balance things out. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Numtini on March 02, 2007, 06:46:08 AM Quote If this works as I suspect, your alts will just be 'hidden', and if you later re-sub to the all access pass, they'll still be there, not deleted. Something like this happened to me when a server was down; I made a 5th character to play and after my server came up, it (the newest character) got pushed off the bottom. I asked about this at one point and from memory, the most recently logged in characters remain available and the rest go into hibernation.Seriously, SOE is in the business of making money. Blizzard is in the business of making games. Interesting who actually makes the most money. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Ixxit on March 02, 2007, 06:57:01 AM Quote Seriously, SOE is in the business of making money. Blizzard is in the business of making games. Interesting who actually makes the most money. Very nicely put, although I have wondered if the new beta 'armory'feature on the WoW site will eventually require a nominal charge like EQplayers. Even for an extra 50 cents you'd have a liscense to print money. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: WindiaN on March 02, 2007, 07:04:42 AM Definitely an indication where a good chunk of their money is coming from then. No way they could raise it by so much while trying to entice more people to sign on. So they must be happy with how many people have signed on, maybe enough so knowing they'll lose a mere pittance. I disagree, but only because I heard it from the mouth of an SOE employee which leaves me dumbfounded as to what they are trying to accomplish here. If they increased the price on PS to make the station pass price look better then the rationale in that email is hliarious: Quote We know that rate increases are never popular but over the course of the past several years we have invested in technology and resources to expand the game's service and support infrastructure. We have also incurred increases in operational and bandwidth costs – all without a corresponding rate increase for PlanetSide. We are proud of the progress we have made for you, our customers, in the areas of game experience and customer support enhancements and efficiency. This change is driven by our sincere commitment to provide a consistently high quality entertainment experience in our game worlds. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Venkman on March 02, 2007, 07:27:06 AM I don't consider that insight into corporate policy, but rather just a community-relation statement. It's rooted in fact of course, but you don't raise the fee for a game that has done nothing but lose customers since inception unless a) it's part of a larger plan; or, b) you don't care.
I don't buy the PS fee increase as trying to drive players to Station Pass either though. People in PS today are there because they love PS. And PS is significantly different from everyone other game covered under Station Pass. Anyone who was ever interested in diku or a virtual world in flux have long since gotten the Pass. The rest love their one game. Adding $2 to the fee is not going to compel them to pay more than double that just to try other titles they know they're not interested in (by virtue of not having done that when the Pass was double the old $12.99 PS fee). Quote from: bhodi Planetside is about to start hemorrhaging customers Come on. Do they even have enough customers to hemorrage? Seriously, it's like post NGE SWG. The people you got are the most ardent fans you can get. Bumping a subscription fee that's already more than it should be is not going to matter to the majority of PS players. Yea, there's rumblings and discontent, a token resistance movement and maybe one or two will actually go through with their promised quit. But if PS has more than 3,000 active accounts, I'd be surprised. And this many years later through so many changes, they're there to stay.Quote from: Nebu Seriously, SOE is in the business of making money. Blizzard is in the business of making games. You make games to make money. They're both in the same business. Blizzard is just better at it because they have both the talent and the business acumen of VUG backing them up.I agree with ixxit that The Armory could be the precursor for a EQ2 Station Players type micro-payment system. But then, this also could be the result of copious profits too :) Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Nebu on March 02, 2007, 07:43:06 AM Quote from: Numtini Seriously, SOE is in the business of making money. Blizzard is in the business of making games. You make games to make money. They're both in the same business. Blizzard is just better at it because they have both the talent and the business acumen of VUG backing them up.Fixed that for ya. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: bhodi on March 02, 2007, 07:57:48 AM True, I'd be shocked if planetside has more than say 5k subs. It's fun, simply because there's nothing else out there, I like FPS, and we've got 5 or 6 steady people that play.. for a month or two at least. Until something better comes along. i'm honest with myself, monthy sub means absoloutely nothing to me at this point in my life. I'm not in college anymore and I don't even notice the debits.
They are clearing the accounts, your characters will be gone. I was pulling some of my info from here (http://planetside.stratics.com/content/features/hoclogs/hoc_0207.php), which I idled on a few days ago and listened. Specifically: Sprite - *NEWSKIS* Will the reserves program be brought back any time after the 24th? EnricoPallazzo - Reserves... Currently there are no definite plans to extend the reserves. I would be more interested in seeing how we could get you to become more of a regular player. Obviously, the reserves are great to have more in the combat. They enrich the game even more but the business side of it does not make sense. So, join up on the *Good* side. We want your participation to last so make sure you convert that account over as soon as pos EnricoPallazzo - So, join up on the *Good* side. We want your participation to last so make sure you convert that account over as soon as possible before the accounts are no longer available. EnricoPallazzo - What is the future of Fodderside? Simply said, it ends on March 24th and that becomes the end of Fodderside. I answered a previous question on this but I'm happy to say it again.. We don't have a transition at this time for when Fodderside ends. So please get those accounts over to regular accounts before all of your hard work and characters are no longer. EnricoPallazzo - I have a question for you Hamorad? I never got a response back on your name. Is it Ham Or Ad? as in In game PlanetSide Ads? or Hamor AD? as in view the ads more frequently? Either way, thanks for the promotion of the ads. It has paid off tremendously. :) Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Nebu on March 02, 2007, 08:04:52 AM I think SOE is going to be disappointed when they realize how many people were playing PS because it was free. These changes will drop their PS subs and the initial drop in subs will cause a domino effect when current subscribers no longer have BR 6 people to feed off of and they move on to other things as well.
Shame really. I'd play PS for $5-$10 a month. $15? Not enough there to be worth it. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Trippy on March 02, 2007, 08:24:19 AM It's stupid of SOE to say that they are going to delete reserve characters considering how quickly you can get up to BR 6 (you used to be able to get up to BR 4 just doing the VR training including entering and exiting all the vehicles). It's basically just a pointless scare tactic to try and get people to subscribe. Yet another sign of how desperate they are for money these days.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Strazos on March 02, 2007, 09:06:05 AM Well, I'm still in my free month, so I'm not sure I'm gonna let them tap my account when the time comes.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Hoax on March 02, 2007, 09:25:32 AM Quote from: Numtini Seriously, SOE is in the business of making money. Blizzard is in the business of making games. You make games to make money. They're both in the same business. Blizzard is just better at it because they have both the talent and the business acumen of VUG backing them up.Fixed that for ya. Yeah seriously, have you seen how much "content" was in TBC? LoL but it was a paid xpack and you still need to buy the original WoW if you are a new player which cracks me up. Blizzard makes money but they do it with a smile and a wink. SOE tries to make money but they do it while grunting and drooling all over you while groping around in your pockets. Big surprise which one people prefer. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Venkman on March 02, 2007, 09:35:07 AM Quote from: Numtini Seriously, SOE is in the business of making money. Blizzard is in the business of making games. You make games to make money. They're both in the same business. Blizzard is just better at it because they have both the talent and the business acumen of VUG backing them up.Fixed that for ya. Normally I see green text or some emotes. But I'm missing something here. What did you fix? I'm sure it was more appropriate, I just can't see the difference between what I wrote and what you changed :) Quote from: Nebu Shame really. I'd play PS for $5-$10 a month. $15? Not enough there to be worth it. Yea, I'm at the $5 range. And not "$5 because that's part of the $30 range either". MMOs are one-at-a-time games for me. Packaging them altogether is either for folks with enough time to manage multiple games (can't imagine that numbers in the millions) or leaching from folks who fool themselves into thinking they do.Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: SnakeCharmer on March 02, 2007, 09:49:31 AM Quote from: Numtini Seriously, SOE is in the business of making money. Blizzard is in the business of making games. You make games to make money. They're both in the same business. Blizzard is just better at it because they have both the talent and the business acumen of VUG backing them up.Fixed that for ya. Normally I see green text or some emotes. But I'm missing something here. What did you fix? I'm sure it was more appropriate, I just can't see the difference between what I wrote and what you changed :) Beeecause Numtini said it ;) not Nebu. Scroll up a bit. Anyways, on the subject at hand: Maybe part of the school of thought behind it is "Raise the price, we know we'll lose some subs, but the number of subs that we keep will balance it out (making roughly the same money as before), and we don't have to have quite as large of support staff for less subscribers. So, overall our profit remains about the same, maybe a bit more, with less liability." Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Afropuff on March 02, 2007, 09:59:39 AM I find it hard to believe they're doing this in anticipation of it coming out the same in terms of dollars raked in. You'e suggesting they're planing to shrink their subscription numbers on purpose. And if you're support heavy, why not just move people out of support? It's not like they've got a great reputation for product service they're trying to protect.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Nebu on March 02, 2007, 10:09:55 AM Beeecause Numtini said it ;) not Nebu. Scroll up a bit. What he said :-D I should have been clearer D, my apologies. I was running off to give a lecture when I typed it. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Murgos on March 02, 2007, 10:45:51 AM The obvious answer is that they are making the change in rates because they anticipate that it will make them more money. Regardless of what ever confluence of predictions is driving this decision, the goal is increased profits.
I guarantee you that they do not expect to lose money from this change. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Ixxit on March 02, 2007, 11:01:42 AM I guarantee you that they do not expect to lose money from this change. By raising prices they want to be 'more profitsy' kinda like when they wanted to make Galaxies 'more Star Warsy' :lol: Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: SnakeCharmer on March 02, 2007, 11:10:48 AM I find it hard to believe they're doing this in anticipation of it coming out the same in terms of dollars raked in. You'e suggesting they're planing to shrink their subscription numbers on purpose. And if you're support heavy, why not just move people out of support? It's not like they've got a great reputation for product service they're trying to protect. EDIT: The following numbers are completely arbitrary. It's not so much 'planning to shrink their numbers on purpose', in as much as they MAYBE are looking to: increase profit margin whilst retaining total revenue (100,000 subs at 10 dollars each = 1,000,000 dollars total revenue; 50,000 subs at 20 dollars each = 1,000,000 dollars total revenue) decrease overhead by reduction in staff. Taken further: Lets say you have 1,000,000.00 USD in 'sales' that is being supported by 50 staff, at an average of 10,000.00 per year salary (includes medical, 401K, etc etc etc). you'll NEED 50 people to support 100,000 subs at 10 dollars each, so you're spending 500,000.00 USD per year in staff. This gives you a profit (ignoring incidentals such as rent, utilities, etc) of 500,000 USD. Then, you double your sub fees. You do this knowing you'll lose some business, but you'll also not need the same overhead that you had before. So, lets say you double your fees. To hit that 1,000.000.00 USD barrier, you need to keep 50,000 subs (which you probably will). BUT, you can can cut your staff in half. You have half the subscribers you used to, and now you don't need as big as staff to support them. Your payroll is now 250,000 per year, but your revenue has stayed the same. HOWEVER, your profit is now 750,000 USD. See what I am getting at? You can increase profits (and profit margin) without making more sales. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Etro on March 02, 2007, 11:43:04 AM It's stupid of SOE to say that they are going to delete reserve characters considering how quickly you can get up to BR 6 (you used to be able to get up to BR 4 just doing the VR training including entering and exiting all the vehicles). It's basically just a pointless scare tactic to try and get people to subscribe. Yet another sign of how desperate they are for money these days. you still can ;) Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: HaemishM on March 02, 2007, 02:30:06 PM Some of those people will sub (I did, for a bit) but get this -- they pre-fucked themselves with the transition. It turns out that on the 23rd, all reserve characters will be wiped; you have to subscribe BEFORE that date to play your reserves character, they currently have no transition plan from reserves->subscribers. That will hurt them. A lot. Without that fresh influx of people, I think the game will quietly drop in numbers once the fodder program stops bringing fresh meat into the system. Are you shitting me? That seems like the height of stupidity. You don't want any barriers trying to convert those free accounts to paid ones, even if it's after some mythical cutoff date. Not having my free characters would just solidify my position never to pay for Planetside. It was an ok free game, but a terrible subscription game. And it sure as fuck isn't worth $15 a month. The Station Pass is now officially not a bargain anymore, and I see no reason to get it. Once you pass the $25/month price point, it's too expensive to be considered a forgettable expense. But from Pigfucker Smedley's vantage, it's probably golden. It props up unprofitable failures like MxO, disappointments like Vanguard, and complete clusterfucks like SWG, keeping SOE from ever having to give accurate subscription numbers again. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Furiously on March 02, 2007, 02:38:12 PM Step one: raise price.
Step two: lower number of users. Step three: pay less to LA for SWG. Step four: renegotiate/cancel SWG deal with LA Step five: redo station price...NOW with even more games...Only $21.99 Step six: profit Might be too conspiracy theory. I'm just not seeing the value of any game from SOE other then EQII right now. I'd maybe give Matrix another try, but everything else is.... rapidly aging. SWG included. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Hound on March 02, 2007, 03:06:53 PM Step one: raise price. Step two: lower number of users. Step three: pay less to LA for SWG. Step four: renegotiate/cancel SWG deal with LA Step five: redo station price...NOW with even more games...Only $21.99 Step six: profit Might be too conspiracy theory. I'm just not seeing the value of any game from SOE other then EQII right now. I'd maybe give Matrix another try, but everything else is.... rapidly aging. SWG included. As long as you have the tin foil beanie on, what about Vanguard? Like you said the only game really worth paying for right now is EQII <insert Twilight Zone music> VSoH seems to be walking a very thin line right now as far as profitability goes, and I doubt it is even close to being in the black. If I was getting rid of my Station Pass and could only play one game, it sure as heck would not be Vanguard. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Afropuff on March 02, 2007, 03:55:37 PM Actually, I was working on a hypothesis that they're doing this in a nefarious attempt to affect global warming. . .
Good god, what is with all these elaborate schemes of subterfuge? Occam's razor suggests they're doing this to soak their existing customers.. Obviously they think they have customers that are sticky. It's not that I can't see these other angles you guys are talking about, I can. And yes, I agree, these moves seem losing on the surface. It's just most likely that they simply disagree with us. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Venkman on March 02, 2007, 05:15:25 PM Exactly.
After all these years, I'd be very surprised if they had any sort of longer-term plan beyond that. I sometimes wonder how often publishers and service providers who do read forums smirk at the conspiracy stuff. But then I wonder how often they slap their heads and say, "damn, I wish I had thought of that..." Did you guys just give them an idea? :) Money grab. Their service costs go up and they directly transfer that to the consumer. I only think they're going up by so much to prevent microjumps at greater frequency. Easier to dim the noise if it only happens once every three years. Quote from: SnakerCharmer Beeecause Numtini said it Wink not Nebu. Scroll up a bit. DOH! Can't count how many times I do that. Thanks for noting :)Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Hound on March 02, 2007, 05:36:09 PM Money grab. Their service costs go up and they directly transfer that to the consumer. I only think they're going up by so much to prevent microjumps at greater frequency. Easier to dim the noise if it only happens once every three years. At this time last year the price was $21.99, in May 2006 they announced it would be upped to $24.99, now it is $29.99. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Azazel on March 02, 2007, 06:00:34 PM Yeah seriously, have you seen how much "content" was in TBC? LoL but it was a paid xpack and you still need to buy the original WoW if you are a new player which cracks me up. Blizzard makes money but they do it with a smile and a wink. SOE tries to make money but they do it while grunting and drooling all over you while groping around in your pockets. Big surprise which one people prefer. Well, BC being an xpack is really no different to the business model that's been around forever with games and their xpacks. Needing to buy the original WoW is hardly a scary proposition at this stage as it's down to $25-30 here in Australia and so is now in the "impulse purchase" price range. What's it going for now in the US? As far as SOE goes, I know a lot of you like EQ2, but the only one of those that appeals to me at all would be EQ1, which unfortunately contunies to mudflate itself further away from even coming back to the game (let alone from new players) with their expansions every 6 months. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Dundee on March 03, 2007, 05:10:30 PM Money grab. Their service costs go up and they directly transfer that to the consumer. I only think they're going up by so much to prevent microjumps at greater frequency. Easier to dim the noise if it only happens once every three years. At this time last year the price was $21.99, in May 2006 they announced it would be upped to $24.99, now it is $29.99. Well, there's a war on. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Nebu on March 03, 2007, 05:43:48 PM Well, there's a war on. The news is out: SOE runs on gas powered generators. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Alkiera on March 03, 2007, 10:27:32 PM Money grab. Their service costs go up and they directly transfer that to the consumer. I only think they're going up by so much to prevent microjumps at greater frequency. Easier to dim the noise if it only happens once every three years. At this time last year the price was $21.99, in May 2006 they announced it would be upped to $24.99, now it is $29.99. Well, there's a war on. Yet, I just heard today that the various indicators of inflation say only 2.1% over the last year(12 months ending Jan31). The price of gas is higher, which you can blame on the war and Katrina. But so is minimum wage (at least in NY). In fact, I was reminded that minimum wage went up again this year when my boss was commenting that prices at fast food places all went up a bit around the beginning of January. -- Alkiera Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Hound on March 04, 2007, 09:10:32 AM Did not think about it till this morning but if you are only playing 2 games it would be more cost effective to buy them on 6 month or 12 month subscription. Until you get to the 3 game mark the access pass is definitly a losing deal now.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Trouble on March 04, 2007, 11:54:38 PM Very nicely put, although I have wondered if the new beta 'armory'feature on the WoW site will eventually require a nominal charge like EQplayers. Even for an extra 50 cents you'd have a liscense to print money. I seriously doubt they'd charge for it. It's just a continuation of what they've been doing with the WoW website from the beginning. For anyone that doesn't know, the WoW website has copious amounts of content on it pertaining to the game. Guides, complete fucking books of lore, detailed PvP rankings (that also utilize AJAX AKA web 2.0 technology), and tons of other stuff. Yes, Blizzard just has that much money. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 05, 2007, 08:42:50 AM Quote Well, BC being an xpack is really no different to the business model that's been around forever with games and their xpacks. Except the whole 'it costs $40' thing. It's a pretty skimpy expansion for the price of a full game, and doesn't include the base game you need to play it.The EQ2 expansion is the same price but includes the base game + all the expansions (3 total). EQ2's team is really the premier mmo team in the industry right now, from my limited vantage point. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Simond on March 05, 2007, 09:14:33 AM SOE are desperately scrabbling for subscribers with EQ2, though - compare & contrast the EQ1 expansions from a half-dozen years or so ago.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Alkiera on March 05, 2007, 10:23:23 AM SOE are desperately scrabbling for subscribers with EQ2, though - compare & contrast the EQ1 expansions from a half-dozen years or so ago. Yeah, there were some tiny ones. LoY possibly the worst; we got a new race, maybe 6 new, small zones, and a map element for the UI, that only came with maps for the home cities. That was at least $19.99. Maybe more, I forget. LDoN was probably $29.99, and it was 5 new areas, each of which was about 6 zones put together like lego bricks out of generic pieces. Also, new equipment and spells and the instancing that went along with it, but pathetic, considering the pricetag. As someone who isn't 60 yet, and isn't interested in playing a Cthulushaman, I agree it's not worth it. Nothing prevents me from buying jewelry from JC off the auction house. I just can't make it myself. Once I get to 60, that may change. Likely, by the time I get to 60, the price will have come down. I'm about half-way through 29 now. -- Alkiera Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: WayAbvPar on March 05, 2007, 10:57:16 AM Quote Pigfucker Smedley First 2 hits on Google both point here, but for different threads. I love it. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Venkman on March 05, 2007, 11:26:21 AM The EQ2 expansion is the same price but includes the base game + all the expansions (3 total). Can they afford that or do they simply have no choice?I agree with you and some here who think EQ2 is a solid game and the EQ2 team a great bunch. However, think back to what it was in the first year: base game plus two for-purchase "adventure packs", a slew of microtransaction-based services on the website and then the first expansion that was sold separately and not with the base game unless you bought the premium gold edition. And that was only 14 months ago. Meanwhile, if VUG wasn't so interested in shipping an expansion like, someday, the Blizz designers (like the EQ2 designers) probably would have made Draenei and Blood Elf content complete races all the way through 60. It even took the EQ1 team how many expansions to do that (think it was their 13th?). When we get above the level of people doing the actual work, business managers are agnostic between companies because they're all driven by the same business needs. Unfortunate though it is, the WoW expac is that pricey because it can be, and the EQ2 stuff is not because it can't be. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 05, 2007, 11:42:51 AM SOE are desperately scrabbling for subscribers with EQ2, though - compare & contrast the EQ1 expansions from a half-dozen years or so ago. Quality is niche.Quote from: Darniaq Unfortunate though it is, the WoW expac is that pricey because it can be, and the EQ2 stuff is not because it can't be. Agreed. It would be foolish to have priced BC any lower. Hell, they should've put out a special pre-release version that lets you play 3 days early for $60. Seriously. They missed a few million dollarinies right there.Note the digital download of EoF is full price but just the expansion :| Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: shiznitz on March 05, 2007, 12:06:36 PM Interesting. I cancelled my Station Pass today since I have to admit that I am going to give up PS or VG. I just cannot fit 3 in my schedule. I don't know which yet. I will decide later.
Anyway, this is the survey I got. I guess it is EQ2 focused because I play EQ2 70% of the time. To repeat, I cancelled Station Pass, not EQ2 specifically. Also, I could not exit the survey and actually cancel without giving an answer to #4 - none of which apply since I still intend to play EQ2. So, everyone cancelling Station Pass due to the price increase is going to give random feedback on #4. Quote Please help us make EverQuest II a better experience! Tell us what you think. Q: 1 Your subscription is not yet cancelled! Before we close your subscription, please answer a few quick questions relating to your EverQuest II experience How long have you played EverQuest II? A: 0-30 Days 1-3 Months 4-8 Months 8 Months or longer Q: 2 What level was your main EQII Character? A: Level 1 - 10 Level 11 - 20 Level 21 - 30 Level 31 - 40 Level 41 - 50 Level 51 - 60 Level 61 - 70 Q: 3 Why are you closing your EverQuest II account? (Check all that apply) A: I tried the game and did not understand how to play. The game has too many bugs. I primarily play solo or paired and I ran out of fun things to do. I primarily play in groups or raids and I ran out of fun things to do. I am primarily an Artisan and I ran out of fun things to do. I feel that my character was not advancing fast enough. I do not like the way character classes are currently balanced. I do not care for the changes made with the most recent Live Update. I feel that the game rules are too restrictive. I am leaving to play with friends in another online game. I did not like the quests I was asked to do or the rewards they gave. I did not feel there was enough story or lore in the game. I did not get the level of customer service necessary to enjoy my subscription. I do not want to continue with EverQuest II due to Station Exchange. I was unable to accomplish much in short play sessions. I did not like the art style in the game. I did not like the way my characters looked. I did not like the audio in the game. I did not like the spells or combat abilities in the game. Out-of-game commitments (family, school, etc.) I do not have enough time to play. The game does not perform well on my system. I can no longer afford to pay the monthly fee. None of the above corresponds to why I stopped playing EQII. Q: 4 If we were to add even more features to EQII, which of the following might cause you to continue to play? A: The addition of even more content that doesn't require a group. The addition of even more high level zones. The addition of even more interesting and unique loot. Faster combat speed. Faster travel options. The ability to hire NPC group members to assist you. New and unique mounts such as flying creatures, or ships. The ability to create adventures or quests for your friends. Even more plot-lines, in-game events, and holiday events. Expanded player housing options. Broader avatar appearance options. A concentration on fixing the existing game instead of new features. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Azazel on March 05, 2007, 12:25:06 PM Quote Well, BC being an xpack is really no different to the business model that's been around forever with games and their xpacks. Except the whole 'it costs $40' thing. It's a pretty skimpy expansion for the price of a full game, and doesn't include the base game you need to play it.The EQ2 expansion is the same price but includes the base game + all the expansions (3 total). EQ2's team is really the premier mmo team in the industry right now, from my limited vantage point. It costs $40 in the US? Interesting. Here it costs slightly more than a regular game's expansion pack, and you can get it significantly cheaper if you know where to look. Of course, that "slightly more than a normal expansion pack" still has it costing the equivalent of more than $US40 if you were to convert it across, as we get hosed on software prices here. As for EQ2, well, they have what? Less than one-tenth of WoW's sub base? I think that points more to why their expacks have the full game included more than any great benevolence on SoE's part. As has been pointed out, their (Sony's) track record on expension packs isn't exactly sterling. I agree with you and some here who think EQ2 is a solid game and the EQ2 team a great bunch. However, think back to what it was in the first year: base game plus two for-purchase "adventure packs", a slew of microtransaction-based services on the website and then the first expansion that was sold separately and not with the base game unless you bought the premium gold edition. And that was only 14 months ago. Meanwhile, if VUG wasn't so interested in shipping an expansion like, someday, the Blizz designers (like the EQ2 designers) probably would have made Draenei and Blood Elf content complete races all the way through 60. It even took the EQ1 team how many expansions to do that (think it was their 13th?). Big bunch of good points. Well, except that Ruins of Kunark (EQ1's first expansion) did provide full 1-60 content along with the Iksar. In fact it became the preferred content from about level 19 or so onwards for everyone. LOIO FTW! Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 05, 2007, 01:46:43 PM Let's pretend Kunark is Trammel.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Strazos on March 05, 2007, 02:38:40 PM Man, I loved LOIO back in the day, but I didn't go there until some time in my 20s.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Alkiera on March 05, 2007, 03:00:54 PM Let's pretend Kunark is Trammel. In what sense? That some group liked EQ a lot more pre-Kunark? Or that Kunark saved the game from dying out completely 9 years ago? I'm not sure I get it. -- Alkiera Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Surlyboi on March 05, 2007, 04:59:42 PM Lake of Ill Manners for teh win.
Pre-Barrens chat, that was probably the first and only time I actually turned off OOC. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Numtini on March 05, 2007, 05:30:06 PM The run into LOIO had to be one of the stupidest most punitive designs in EQ.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: WayAbvPar on March 06, 2007, 08:45:39 AM The run into LOIO had to be one of the stupidest most punitive designs in EQ. Oh god, no kidding. It was even MORE fun as an 'evil' race- having to jump off the boat before the guards aggroed, then race through a ton of high level mobs to get to the zone. I got whacked once by the guards (wasn't fast enough off the boat), and had to get a GM to rez me, since I couldn't get to my body under the boat. Once I got to the zone, however, I had lots of fun. Being a chanter in the Sarnak fortress was a blast. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Stephen Zepp on March 06, 2007, 09:55:32 AM The run into LOIO had to be one of the stupidest most punitive designs in EQ. Oh god, no kidding. It was even MORE fun as an 'evil' race- having to jump off the boat before the guards aggroed, then race through a ton of high level mobs to get to the zone. I got whacked once by the guards (wasn't fast enough off the boat), and had to get a GM to rez me, since I couldn't get to my body under the boat. Once I got to the zone, however, I had lots of fun. Being a chanter in the Sarnak fortress was a blast. Uhh...take the dark side boat? Then it's run around the edges of The OverThere, and run around the edges of Frontier Mountains. Try being an iksar wanting to go to the mainland--NO boat guards allowed you to ride, and you had to swim out and intercept the boat while it was sailing :P Then, once you got to the mainland, you couldn't use any city bind points until you got faction up...without a caster friend to bind you, you were screwed! Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Engels on March 06, 2007, 10:07:33 AM You forget that a lot of evil races hosed their OT evil side faction early by killing Sarnaks. Even the 'evil boat' wasn't safe for a lot of evils.
Who's stupid idea was it to put aggro sarnaks all over the danged OT outpost, anyway? Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Numtini on March 06, 2007, 10:48:54 AM Did they change that? I don't remember my faction getting messed up and Goddess knows, I killed a few squillion of those sarnaks. I was a neutral gnome.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: HaemishM on March 06, 2007, 01:35:45 PM Let's pretend Kunark is Trammel. In what sense? That some group liked EQ a lot more pre-Kunark? Or that Kunark saved the game from dying out completely 9 years ago? Kunark changed the game significantly, almost as significantly as Trammel did, just in a different way. It made everything harder, made all the encounters from there on tuned for raider/uberloot types, which made a good bit of the Old World stuff useless. It also did increase subs a great deal, especially when they released the box with the core and expansion included. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Engels on March 06, 2007, 01:41:44 PM Did they change that? I don't remember my faction getting messed up and Goddess knows, I killed a few squillion of those sarnaks. I was a neutral gnome. My bad. My memory failed me. The problem wasn't the sarnaks in OT, it was the mobs in Karnors that gave the faction hit. Since a bunch of Random Acts (my old guild) needed Karnors for various epics, I ditched my OT faction to help them there. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Strazos on March 06, 2007, 06:50:32 PM I was a rogue. Being a rogue was nice.
Occasionally. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Phred on March 07, 2007, 04:02:12 AM The EQ2 expansion is the same price but includes the base game + all the expansions (3 total). Meanwhile, if VUG wasn't so interested in shipping an expansion like, someday, the Blizz designers (like the EQ2 designers) probably would have made Draenei and Blood Elf content complete races all the way through 60. It even took the EQ1 team how many expansions to do that (think it was their 13th?). Kunark would be the first expansion with new races and content complete I think. Of course it took 13 more to put out another, though there was a fair bit of content in luclin for the cat race as well. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Alkiera on March 07, 2007, 06:50:43 AM The EQ2 expansion is the same price but includes the base game + all the expansions (3 total). Meanwhile, if VUG wasn't so interested in shipping an expansion like, someday, the Blizz designers (like the EQ2 designers) probably would have made Draenei and Blood Elf content complete races all the way through 60. It even took the EQ1 team how many expansions to do that (think it was their 13th?). Kunark would be the first expansion with new races and content complete I think. Of course it took 13 more to put out another, though there was a fair bit of content in luclin for the cat race as well. Aye, Kunark was content-complete for Iksar. Had to be, as they were hated everywhere else. Luclin was close, if not complete. Catmen were at least accepted by good factions on the main planet. TSS's dragon-blooded humans have a complete set of zones, as well. In fact, due to much improved quest rewards, it's THE place to level in EQ1 now. I still posit that if anything is gonna hurt WoW, it will be Blizzard's glacial content-production rates. -- Alkiera Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Sky on March 08, 2007, 08:02:01 AM Let's pretend Kunark is Trammel. In what sense? That some group liked EQ a lot more pre-Kunark? Or that Kunark saved the game from dying out completely 9 years ago? Kunark changed the game significantly, almost as significantly as Trammel did, just in a different way. It made everything harder, made all the encounters from there on tuned for raider/uberloot types, which made a good bit of the Old World stuff useless. It also did increase subs a great deal, especially when they released the box with the core and expansion included. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Surlyboi on March 08, 2007, 08:18:08 AM Let's pretend Kunark is Trammel. In what sense? That some group liked EQ a lot more pre-Kunark? Or that Kunark saved the game from dying out completely 9 years ago? Kunark changed the game significantly, almost as significantly as Trammel did, just in a different way. It made everything harder, made all the encounters from there on tuned for raider/uberloot types, which made a good bit of the Old World stuff useless. It also did increase subs a great deal, especially when they released the box with the core and expansion included. I dunno, I still did a fair bit of soloing after Kunark and well into Velious. Of course, I was a ranger, so I died. A lot. No wonder it took me five years to get to 70... Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: shiznitz on March 08, 2007, 11:36:09 AM Rangers could solo reasonably well after they got Panic Animal (at 22 iirc): snare tiger/bear/snake mob, cast panic animal, chop at its ass, re-apply panic & snare as needed. Kunark didn't change this at all. And it was never fun.
note: how scary is it that I remember what level I got panic animal? That was 5+ fricking years ago. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Strazos on March 08, 2007, 12:31:31 PM I was a Rogue. I never soloed past about lvl 5. Ever.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Engels on March 08, 2007, 01:46:14 PM I twinked a rogue with expensive PoP and Luclin era equipment and solo'd her to level 37 :) That Crypt of Decay dagger did some serious carnage to the Zelniaks in Luclin.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Phred on March 08, 2007, 04:41:49 PM I was a Rogue. I never soloed past about lvl 5. Ever. Heh I was gonna say, kunark may have been the death of soloing for a few classes but half of them could never solo in the first place. I can't remember anything as mind numbingly boring as soloing raptors in that kunark ocean zone because I couldnt find a group on my druid though. Of course it was to their financial advantage to keep the status quo when they could. I didn't know anyone that wasn't 2 boxing when I quit eq. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Merusk on March 08, 2007, 04:45:14 PM I'll be honest here, I miss quad kiting. It was fun and took a bit of skill to learn how to best do it, and you always had that risk of running into another mob's path.
Doesn't mean I miss doing it enough to want to relieve the 4-5 hours of doing it every night for a bar or two of xp that went with it. Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Azazel on March 08, 2007, 04:48:01 PM Nod, I soloed my Druid up quite nicely. If you were to do it all again today, it'd be a very different experience though, due to the fundamental game changes that have taken place since the introduction of the WoW.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: MahrinSkel on March 10, 2007, 10:15:01 PM Why would someone *have* a Station Pass? I think we can safely assume they aren't doing it for all the Station minigames (most of which are clones of games that can be played for free elsewhere). So most Station Pass holders are doing it either for perks attached to their favorite game (like the EQ2 extra character slots), because they are or were migrating from one of them to the other (EQ --> EQ2 --> VSoH most likely), *or* they play one most of the time and have a second for a backup, when the first is boring them and they need to recharge.
MxO isn't a game you just drop in and out of, but Planetside *is*. I think there's a good chance that many Station Pass holders play one of the three BPF games, and have the Station Pass so they can get their FPS ya-yas out in PS every once in a while. So if the Station Pass price goes to $30, and that's less than the cost of EQ/EQ2/VSoH *plus* a PS subscription, a lot of people would probably drop back from the Station Pass and just have two separate subscriptions, and be paying SOE $5 less. Or at least someone was really worried that might happen. Why nickel and dime your subscribers to death like this? Well, you might note that the end of the Sony fiscal year is approaching. --Dave Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Hound on March 11, 2007, 10:09:23 AM I had a Station pass for about a year and a half. EQII perks mainly and occasional drops in to my old SWG server so I could sit and cry awhile and curse SOE.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: Woody on March 11, 2007, 10:14:40 AM The best impact WOW is having on the industry is people are learning that games don't have to suck as far as fit and finish. Just can't wait for the masses to look at Smed's "we have a whole bunch of crap games for one price" and see a whole lotta junk ain't worth one good game, let alone two.
Title: Re: SOE's Station Access Price Increase Post by: shiznitz on March 12, 2007, 08:22:01 AM I think there's a good chance that many Station Pass holders play one of the three BPF games, and have the Station Pass so they can get their FPS ya-yas out in PS every once in a while. That was me. Was. Now I have just a single EQ2 sub (I lost the adventure packs but I have outlevelled two and Fallen Dynasty is empty) and I *might* re-sub to PS occasionally as a one-off but even that is less likely at $15. PS isn't remotely worth that since to enjoy the game you need to be part of an organized outfit and you cannot be part of an organized outfit if you play 3 months a year. VG was fun to try when it was "free" but way too much of a trainwreck to actualy pay for. This really hurts VG at a strange time to be handicapping that game. Station Pass players are much more likely to pop into VG every now and then to see how things are going than your single game subscriber. But now I have lost my "free look" at VG and things are going to have to become dramatically different in that game before I pull the trigger on a full month. I would have stuck with Station Pass up to $28.99. That last dollar, though, is like a backhand across the face. |