f13.net

 SOURCE  (http://www.mogarmy.net/)

I look forward to discussing this game when it goes into closed beta 4 years from now.  :roll:

What a wonderful distraction from CCP's current woes.

As long as the people connected to their idiotic, blatant in-house cheating are affiliated with the company in any way, nothing CCP produces will be worth playing and only a fool would do so. The fact that their in-house culture is so thoroughly and utterly corrupt is disgusting. Three weeks ago I would have looked forward to this. As it stands, it will simply be nothing more than another venue for CCP employees to manipulate the game to satisfy their own personal gameplay while at the same time boning their subscribers.

I'd rather play an Exalted Lunar.

Dip!

<hit da wrong button fur edits and stuff>

I look forward to buying this game in five years.  Then reactivating the account after they fix all the initial bugs and interface issues three years later.

Only because they got caught. This shit goes on everywhere. I have always operated under the assumption that the devs are helping out their friends/guilds.

It's a fucking game, run by regular fucking people. It's not like Jesus came down and made the damn thing. Try not to get fucking junior high drama all over it, okay?

I hope they get help with the interface or every trenchcoat and spiky black hair variant will have it's own modal window popup.

Someone check Morat's IP and make sure he isn't from Iceland.

Nah, he's from where I am.  He knows way too much about it to not be.

Yeap, games are made by people, and people are broken.  That is where we build social structures to ameliorate their worst aspects.  The critical failure here wasn't the developer cheating, it was the company failing to be upfront it's customers.  Since the company has all the information, and the customer has none, one expects the company to be entirely open about its employee indiscretions.  CCP has demonstrably failed this test, and thus forfeited my trust.  I can't think of anyway they could assure me that any CCP game would be fairly run, and without that, there really is no point in playing.

Pass.

Devs playing their own game with perks for them and their buddies? Anyone remember Brad McQuaid playing a ranger called Aradune? He repeatedly proclaimed that rangers were 'working as intended' when the flat obvious truth of the matter is that rangers were near useless. How do you think McQuaid came to the conclusion that they were fine the way they were? He had to have twinked himself out the bloody nose, is how.

I know, all the arguements about how EVE is a PVP economy where BoB's advantages affected thousands of players are valid, to a point. But F13 Corp complaining about BoB having an unfair edge is like Joe's Taco Stand in Renton minging on about insider trading at Microsoft. Technically, we all breathed the same air, but for all intents and purposes, we may as well have been playing a different game.

I'm looking forward to this.  I'll hold off picking a side, though, until I see who the devs are going to be playing for.  No point making it hard for myself.

I must have missed this CCP drama... where's it at?

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=9285.0

Could CCP be the only dev house in the world to make two MMOGs without at least one featuring elves?

Oh the humanity!

screw that


I'd rather give my credit card to a strip joint -- be less sleazy

brilliant

No, I'm from Houston. And I play EVE almost purely carebear, so I've got...oh, zero actual impact from this, which might explain my general failure to indulge in "TEH SKY IZ FALLING!".

I just find a lot of overreaction -- but like I said, doesn't affect me really. I just think it's weird that such a cynical site has even a significant number of people upset over this. It's going to happen, in every game company, in every MMORPG you ever play. And every one of them will react like CCP does -- except most probably won't even bother with internal audits.

T20 should still be fired. I suspect if this crpa goes on, he'll "resign for the good of the game".

So you play EvE for the fun of mining asteroids?  :wink:

So is this the gothy political World of Darkness or the new Achille's House of Horrors World of Darkness?

Doesn't really matter.  It's going to vamp vs were Quake regarless.  Although, I wouldn't it pass  CCP to go political MMO with heavily resticted combat.

No Mage, though?  Bah. 

I am sure, like usual, mages will be scewed. If werewolf tears up a mall, no one gives a crap.  If a mage lights a cigarette with magic, the universe's panties get in a bunch and it starts send deathsquads after you.

God, I can see a bunch of leather-clad manginas running around with eight million variations on the name Selene.

Only very rarely. I'm working on trading, and I do some PvE for loot to fund my exploration. It's a vast enough game that I'm content to slowly explore how things work. It's skill training system means that slow exploration doesn't hurt me -- it actually helps me. I can spend two days getting up enough basic skills to start trading, and then while I spend a month playing with buy/sell orders I'm improving the crap out of combat skills.

Well, you have to remember that game implementation of the old Mage rules would be really, really hard. I don't know about the new system, but i would imagine that they have the same issues about it.

And as far as Deathdealers are concerned...  there is but one word you have to fear. 'Lestat'.

I concur on mages. I tried playing Mage a handful of times. It appeared to be an exercise in "Convincing the GM that yes, indeed, that fell within the Entropy sphere". Mage -- at least the old system -- is just too inventive. It's about creative application. To utilize it in any computer game setting would require rigorously neutering the rules and applications.

I'll bet you a million-billion pounds that any implementation of Mage they do will end up with a crappy (WOW) rage-style bar that starts at zero and fills up a number of points every time you cast a spell, and then decays over time.  Things that people who never played Mage will think are bad will happen when you fill (or get close to filling) the bar, such as miscasts or backfires.  Which is, of course, as nothing compared to what would happen in PnP Mage if The Great Munchkinus decides to try and fling a fireball at a vampire in the middle of a crowd of people.

Yeah but PK'ing and emoting azrape over the corpses of angsty, emo, vampire wannabe's would be so worth the rest of the hassle.

Never played Eve, I always meant to try it at some point, or I did until it became clear the devs can cheat and the company covers up for them.  I have zero reason to believe this game will be any different.

Being from Renton, this Joe's Taco Stand intrigues me...

Didn't I report on this for my blog in November? Not exactly new news, but good confirmation.

I admit, deep in my soul -- my inner PK stirs at the thought.

You reported on Joe's Taco Stand? I live in the friggin town and I've never heard of it...

My feelers are everywhere.

I am with angry.bob. I would have been seriously excited about this 3 weeks ago, but now dealing with CCP gives me a bad vibe. It would be one thing for a WoW dev to help out a PvE raiding guild, but in the PvP world of EVE, that kind of help is seriously balance-tipping. ESPECIALLY since it is a one shard world.

I will keep an open mind about it though; if they show signs of removing their heads from the asses about the situation in EVE, that will go a LONG WAY toward my purchase of their new product. I love the IP, so I am hoping their house in order.

You'll have to define what that means for you; my opinion is that they are slow to make changes, not driven by popular demand, and their bugfixing is well, they fix a lot but they also introduce a lot, every damn patch, too.

So what exactly do you expect them to do to "fix the situation"?

Personally, I don't know if I'll play this new game, but that's because I'm expecting a PVP-centric game with a crappy, unmodifiable interface, very little PVE content, and a whack-a-mole bugfixing process.

The one thing that gives me a little confidence when hearing about a WoD mmo, is that CCP do seem to have a fair bit of competence when creating in-depth worlds for one's character to run(fly) around in. Lots of backstory, etc... This is of course for a game of their own conception and not someone else's ip, so it will remain to be seen if they can carry that care over into another game. The other thing i wanted to point out in regards to the recent EvE brouhaha - the World of Darkness is not, strictly speaking (at least in my experience) an open pvp adventure. There can be plenty of pvp present in the pnp, but for the most part it has a heavy tendency towards roleplaying and inter-player social interaction rather than 'gate-camping'. In addition to this, each of the major factions tends to have a specific storytelling (DM'ing) style: Mages focus on resolving internal conflicts of the mind and overcoming sometimes not-so-worldly obstacles, Vamps are locked in a continuous (political) power struggle amongst themselves, and the werekin tend to focus on surviving and keeping the pack together, fighting the Wyrm, etc... as well as the usual player dramas. 

This in my mind lessens the "oh mai gawd, opnen pvpv oOoOoOO". Erh, hopefully. Maybe.

I wouldn't count on it.  EVE has some innovative things but at it's heart it's got a lot of Diku tendencies.  There is only so much that can be done in that framework to go outside the norm.

Well, they joined with WW so I'm sure the 630 people in that company will / can create a lot of backstory etc.

As for PvP, if it's not a PVP game, then I have no clue how good it'll be; CCP's sole game started as a PVP sandbox, their "agent missions" were added later, and aren't that complex (particularly when it comes to AI and scripted events).  They've just recently started to dabble in / add anything resembling scripted or triggered events.

So, if it's a repeat of EVE gameplay but with avatars, then I know what to expect and am not that thrilled.  If it's PVE gameplay, then in my books they're like a newbie dev house that hasn't had any previous experience with PVE as far as I'm concerned, and again I'm not that thrilled.

Incidentally, WAR's aim seems to be implementing the EVE PVP gameplay experience, but with avatars and magic, and since it's going to be relased much sooner than World of Darkness, it'll steal their thunder (if they plan on making WoD a PVP game), no?

Here’s the problem with CCP and WoD:

An almost direct translation of EVE to WOD would be just about perfect for the IP. The galaxy would translate to a city, fictional or real. Systems would become neighborhoods. Instead of the duality of your ship/skills you simply have your character. Adapt the security system from eve to the neighborhoods and it would be a perfect backdrop for vampiry politics. Clans/Covens/ Whatever could fight and negotiate for control of low sec neighborhoods and their resources (money/people/landmarks), while people not wanting to be involved in that aspect could do whatever in safer areas or sneak about in plyer controled areas. Coupled with the skill system CCP used in EVE it would be a dream game - at least for me. It would truly be a player-driven sandbox that stayed true to how I remember the IP. I was really, really looking forward to the prospect.

But now they’ve shown that their owners and other senior, apparently unfireable staff play. Which isn’t in and of itself a problem. I want them to play. In fact, I demand they play. Every MMO game company should make it make it mandatory to play an hour out of their workday – just as a normal player. I think it would help identify problems with fun/balance. But that’s not the way they play. They play to win. They play to lead dominant player groups, and keep them dominant. And when they get caught, they don’t even say they won’t be repeating the behavior. They simply state that the known CCP characters have been removed – and only after a failed cover-up. I’d be very surprised if the unknown characters aren’t still there given the blatant lying they did to cover up being in BoB (name thieves). What they’ve said is every bit as greasy and specific in its wording as anything crafted by Rove. That, their history, and their handling of this entire affair screams foul, an inability to recognize what was wrong with what they were doing, and a refusal to fix its root causes.

And what’s been brought to light aren’t even the really pervasive, damaging things they could have/still be doing. They have access to the very fabric reality of their worlds. Want an asteroid belt that has every mineral and ice in the game in our system? Done. Want to know somebody’s skills or how their ship is equipped? It’s a spreadsheet away. That <whatever> we’re going to attack tomorrow and wonder what’s guarding it? I’ll just “respond to a game issue” in the system.

As bad as it is in EVE, the potential for abuse in something as political as I remember Vampire games being is much, much greater.

EDIT: sorry, I was repeating myself.  They have 700 people now, instead of just 70, and it looks like you need "PvE done right" subscription numbers to support that many; a PVP game will probably not achieve the numbers required.  I don't know where they'd get their financing, either.

Solution would be to disclose all dev chars in every major alliance (Assuming they are evenly distributed), fire t_20, make company-wide found rise to hire some malysian killers to go after Kusomething guy.

Where in that do I begin trusting CCP again?  Can they fire the owners who let this happen, who let it be covered up?  The horse has fled the barn, for a lot of people like me.  CCP, thy name is shit to me, alas.

I personally will try the game.

Ill look past CCP faults and try the game out just because they have shown to have the balls to do things differently. Go ahead, play LotRO, Vanguard, etc. I just want something with a little innovation and PVP.

I haven't heard anything that makes WAR sound like any kind of successor to EVE; most of what I've heard has been more reminiscent of WoW, SB, or DAoC.  Maybe my information is old or inaccurate, but it really doesn't look anything like EVE PvP to me.  Either as on the specific mechanics level (EVE being extremely complex and focused on things like jamming sensors and propulsion systems, while WAR sounds fairly similar to generic Diku) or in terms of overall structure (EVE being focused around controlling space in a single shard world, while WAR is a mainly series of instanced battlegrounds, if I recall correctly), or even on the most superficial level (space vs. castles)  I'm having trouble drawing parallels.

I don't think the World of Darkness, and Vampire especially, lends itself to static PvE content that well.  Werewolf, maybe, but for the other games, you're generally not wading through carnage dispensing two fisted justice to an army of ne'er do wells or anything like that.  That was probably the weakest thing about the Vampire games for the PC; all those "and then I had to fight some zombies in the sewer for an hour" bits that didn't fit in to the world at all and didn't do anything for the story.  It's possible that they might want to build an entire game around that (PvE being the more universally accepted route to fame and riches, albeit not for CCP specifically yet), but I can't say that I'd be looking forward to it.

I wouldn't want to be a loser in my own game either. I hope CCP(BoB) kicked Goon Fleet's ass before they got caught.

I agree with this. WAR is definitely more structured and less kick you the teeth.  Different strokes and all that.