f13.net

I have seen about 5 or 6 mage builds and I can't decide which way to go.  I don't really PvP yet, but I might in the future.  I guess right now I am looking to level as fast as possible.  Right now I am all fire except two in arcane and I am currently level 30.  Any ideas?

die in a mage fire plz?

Don't be a worthless fuck plz?  thx dewd.

Go either full Fire or full Ice. Now that Arcane Explosion and Evocation have been turned into general spells there's no reason to bother with the arcane tree, and either one of Fire/Ice will make levelling a breeze. Fire gives you more upfront damage and a little more burst, Ice gives you a bit more CC and survivability. I'm no "uber player" but my wife and I duo mages (her Ice, mine Fire) so I have plenty of experience playing both. If you decide which you want, I can give you advice on which talents to skip.

Do you group or solo for the most part? If you solo, I'd have skipped those two in arcane to start with as well. There are too many valuable talents in both the fire and ice trees to waste talents on minor aggro reduction. And even if you do group, I'd have skipped them for now...

It was more than this thread deserved. Seriously. It doesn't even have the merits of the warrior/tanking discussion. There are 4 dozen of this thread on the first two pages of the WoW Mage forum. Which is where this should be.

And you aren't the forum police so if you don't like the thread just ignore it.

I would say levelling pve go fire or ice but I've been having a lot of fun with my 64 Mage who is heavily arcane specced.  With the latest nerf to fireball damage that reduces the love there.  Arcane gives you some utility.  I have the talent that reduces by 40% threat from my arcane missles.  So in instances I just blast away.  Plus there is always PoM and extra crit chances.  As a crit specced mage I really like Arcane.  I have over a +25% crit chance now and my arcane missles crit for almost 700 damage per pulse.  Also Arcane Explosion hasn't been nerfed in damage like Flamestrike was.

I crit a lot.  A lot.

Plus Slow will be good for pvp. 

Hope this helps!

Full-Frost hasn't steered me wrong yet. The insane front-loaded damage from Arcane/Fire just makes you a pain in the ass to keep aggro off of, and in the end the group is better served by more CC and less hate generation (one of the mages in my guild is heavy arcane and I fucking hate having him in groups). Nevermind the absolutely wonderful "Oh Shit" button that is Ice Block.

Thread pvp, yessssssss.















No, i  have nothing to contribute.

I have a lvl 35 mage and went completely Ice.  It has served me well for lvl'ing since I have numerous ways to escape even when I'm solo (which is 99% of the time.)  My power seems just fine and I can cut through one level below or less with ease. 

I've noticed that the mage class is unique in that their power is so bi-polar.

One level and below? ---> Can mow down acres of mobs for huge experience and item gain.
Even Level or Above? --> Don't get more than one and even on that one you'll be out of mana at the end of the fight.

This probably changes at higher levels, but as you level up this seems to  be the case for me.

Here's my advice.  Full fireball spec until about 40-41 or so, then shatter/icebuild until about 58 or so, then when you start getting heavy int/+spell damage, you can do a 40 arcane/X build.  I've put a TON of thought into my mage (he's L53 currently) and specced all over the place.  That's the greatness that are the talent trees, there really are 6-7 specs that all play differently.

Oh, if you are planning on doing ANY pvp, PoM is a delicious utility spell.  I personally leveled AoE from about 30-52 and it went pretty quick w/ blizzard spec, but so boring.  Currently specced as a full fire scorch build.  Haven't tried it out before, so I'm giving it a go since it seems that single target wtfpwning is leveilng me as fast as AoE was w/ rest xp.  Not sure how I like it just yet, but you really can't go wrong w/ many specs.  If I had to do it again (and I probably will once I scrounge up 20g) I'll respec out of Dragon's Breath since it just doesn't have the oomph I was looking for.  Oh, and be careful with Shatter, it's hard to go back to anything else :P

I'll just add my /agree to the fire spec at low levels.  I plan on trying the AOE blizzard thing soon, but for now the single target pwnage can't be beat.  For mobs a few levels below up to about a level below, pyroblast + fireball + fireball pretty much ends them.  I wand the rest.  Sometimes you'll have to nova and run a few steps away, but not much.

Hrm, I might have to try Fire then.  It will only cost me a gold at this point and I doubt it will be so bad I have to change back right away.

I agree that solo aoe just isn't viable unless  you go crazy low (4 lvls?) on the mobs.  In a group?  Yeah, you can whip through areas no problem.

Don't be a fucktard.

Any and all of the official WoW forums are best avoided. I'd much rather ask the community here anything than post or read the fucking WoW forums.


Having said that, feel free to go back to them if you like them so much.



As for the others advising different specs for grouping, all good points but he is level 30 or so atm, so assuming he's mostly-soloing and doing little-to-no pvp, the aggro stuff isn't much of an issue atm.

At level 38, I have 10 points in Arcane (to get the Clearcasting skill..can't remember the name) and the rest in fire. I crit/stun a lot, but it is a BITCH to solo anywhere the mobs are at or near my level (and thus aggro from a decent range). Dustwallow Marsh (?) is a giant PITA, especially near the Mage quest chick's hut.

After I buy my mount at 40, I will probably respec to a deep Frost build for a change of pace and more PvP utility. Blizzard is a great way to whore for HKs =)

I was full Ice on my mage up to level 38, and then I respecced full fire for PVP. Ice is really a superior leveling build; it slows mobs, so you don't get hit as much if at all, and it's very much more mana-efficient than fire (lower spell costs made even lower with talents, and more crits with Shatter that essentially save you the mana cost of another spell). Ice is nice for PVP but until you have the points to dump into fire or arcane for the damage, it's a bit too conditional for my liking. Fire is better straight-up dps and at low level with pyroblast and polymorph, a virtually guaranteed 1 versus 1 kill.

I soloed the 43 elite raptor in STV at level 38 while Ice-specced. That would never have happened as Fire spec.

Trippy gets to say stuff like that to me and I drop it because he's a moderator and I respect his authority. You don't get to say shit because you're a fucking generic nobody. Next time you stumble across a very, very minor forum drama that's been dead for a day, don't listen to your guiding inner retard and add your two cents. Leave it lay.

I'll concur with full Frost for PvE. The movement debuff, ice block, and frost shield make for excellent survivability and the mana efficiency allows you to go longer without drinking. When you do decide to join a group you can still do good damage without having to worry as much about pulling aggro or running out of mana at an inconvenient time.

Barring any abnormal resists you should have no problem with orange cons or solo elites at your level. (assuming they can be snared, that is) Plus, with improved blizzard and CoC/shatter you can AoE farm with relative ease. I also find Frost to be more fun due to the diversity of tools at my disposal.

That is another reason I am really leaning that direction. It just seems more fun. It kind of reminds me of the difference between an EQ1 wizard (nuker- fire) and enchanter (crowd control- frost). I still maintain that playing my enchanter was the most fun of any character I have had, just because of how crucial I was to the group. If I didn't do my job well, people died.

Full frost is -- to my mind -- the funnest fucking spec in the whole game. And my mage isn't even my main, and probably never will be. Nonetheless, it's fun as hell for me to play. It's like all the joy of sapping some idiot trying to snag a flag then stealhing away, but it's not just one trick -- it's a whole bagful of fun ways to hurt, control, snare, root, and otherwise irritate the world.

Mage is one of those few classes where you can spec anything and still come out fairly strong.  I specced arcane through levels 1 - 60.  I found it to be a very effective and efficient build.  I also found that skills like arcane missiles had a tendency to crit a lot in consecutive strikes and as a result it seemed a lot more mana efficient then say Fire. 

I went all the way up the arcane tree and honestly, I haven't ever regretted it.  I know I haven't given you much advice here, but I think that is because the bottom line with mages is that you play and spec them to your personality.  If you want an all out frontal assault, then I would highly encourage you to be a fire mage.  If you want to implement more strategy, then I would recommend that you look into being a frost mage.  If on the other hand you want utility and efficiency then I would highly recommend you take a look at arcane and see what it has to offer you.

They did finally fix that bug where you'd fire Arcane Missiles and your toon would assume the "I'm blasting you with Arcane Missiles" stance, and the channeling bar would come up, and the mana would drain -- but no arcane missiles, no damage, no NOTHING -- right?

I haven't seen it happen in a long time, but I recall it being a bug for a very long time -- and oddly situational. (It seemed to happen in certain zones more than others. Once it happened, it'd keep happening until you logged....).

The animation is still not quite right, but it is worlds better than it was when I quit playing 18 months ago.

Had a problem on my mage recently where the final pulse of Arcane Missiles wouldn't fire.  No damage, no resist, no graphic.  I stopped buying ranks of Arcane Missiles because of it, since I figured there wasn't much point, if the last second of the spell wouldn't function.

Was the damage right? I noticed that AM seemed to "pulse" -- it might channel for a bit, then zap three waves at once, then channel a bit. I think I worked out the damage appeared right.

I rarely use it myself. I love Cold Snap, though. That and evocation are serious "Oh shit!" buttons.

Nope.  At first I thought it was just a visual problem, but then I started looking at my logs.  On the low-level 3 second version I'd get 2 hits, then no third hit.  Same thing happened when I upgraded to the 4 second version, except I got 3 hits and no 4th.  Didn't always happen, just...somewhat regularly.  Wasn't interruptions by damage either cause at the time I had the 100% no interrupt for arcane missiles talent.

I didn't play EQ1 long, but I had an Enchanter and got him to level 30-something.  I agree.  It was fun and the importance of my job made it even more so.  You were always on the edge of screwing up and if you did, wipe.  The trouble I had was getting "known" as a good enchanter.  Most pugs wouldn't pick you up due to the risk of not knowing what I was doing.  Once people knew I could do the job, I got invites, but it was still too slow of a process for me, so I bailed the game.

While questing and running ST last night as a fire scorch mage, L53, it was fun.  Scorch bonus + Curse of Elements made for some nice damage, and Combustion + Flamestrike + Blastwave + Dragon's Breath worked great for AoE moments (although I died 3 times doing this because of wearing +sp damage gear, lol @ 1400 hp).

I think I'm going to respec yet again and throw all my points into fire damage instead of utility(Like This (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000055520201230303105312010000000000000000000000)) instead of My Current Spec (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?1000000000000000000000015520201230303125312000020000000000000000000).

More damage, but I don't have enough +spell damage (only 120 to fire atm) to make the empowered fireball worth it.  Typically when solo'ing I lead w/ Pyroblast, then cast fireball, then scorch, FN, fireball, scorch.  Toss a combustion in there whenever it's up.  In instances, I just lead with 5 scorches then scorch it down, boring I know, but it's effective enough in terms of DPM.

I do miss the utility of frost though.  And shatter, oh how I miss shatter.

EDIT: Maybe something more like this from now on: SPEC (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000055420001230013125312010030000000000000000000)  Fireball main attack, scorch for stacking damage, and 3% mana off of fire and frost spells will save more mana than Master of Elements will in the long run.  The choice in leveling from there is pumping up fire damage more, or trying to go for clear casting.

Respecced last night to all frost at level 38 (and dinged 39). I like the way it plays much better so far, but I am a bit annoyed with the CoC range. Debated the merits of the CoC improvement talent with a buddy- what is the general consensus here? Also, I am a n00b retard, since I somehow skipped Cold Snap when I was respeccing. Now I have 1 more point until I get Cold Barrier, so I will likely be Cold Snap-less until  41.

Improved Blizzard is love.

You're hurting without Cold Snap. And yes, Improved Blizzard is awesome.

I specced frost because I looked at the tree and thought "I love everything here. EVERYTHING".

Ya, you can easily drop 2/0/59 and be a happy mage.  I'm just very big on the "I'm not a pet class" thingy so WE never really stuck with me even though having a second frost nova is love.

I'm thinking once I hit 60-62 or so I"ll drop 41/11 in arcane/fire since fire is so lacking in utility and I miss my wtfpwn insta pyro of old.

Is Arcane Subtley worth the two points to a frost mage?

I liked that arcane ability that gave me a powerless spell the following cast.  That's as far into arcane (10 points I think) as I ever went with my mage and the rest was pretty spread around fire.  The only trouble I saw with a high fire spec was that I had to manage my casts more to limit grabbing aggro and it lacked a lot of the utility I got from Ice. 

I have to admit though, mage was a fun class to play and I almost always got spammed with group invites. 

I see that build (2/0/59) a lot, and was wondering the same thing. I would be more inclined to either forgo Arcane altogether or go 10 points deep to get Clearcasting procs as often as possible. I have proven time and again that I am functionally retarded when it comes to this kind of thing  :-D

Not sure what my opinion is worth, but I liked clearcasting in cases where we had large pulls or I was solo/duo and wanted to minimize downtime.  In a purist sense, I can see cases against it as it's only valuable when you're dumping mana over a prolonged period of time.

I liked it a lot as a fire mage, but so far (in my one whole playsession!), frost feels a bit more mana efficient, so I don't quite feel the urgency for Clearcasting. I very well might head down that route later on though if things at the bottom of the frost tree don't float my boat.

I agree with you.  Frost is so mana effecient that you really don't feel the need for it like I did with fire spec.  Then again, my experience was much more limited than most of the vets here.  I should bow out and leave them to carry on with the discussion. 

I specced clearcasting for a very long time, and then realized I couldn't find 10 points in Frost I was willing to give up for it. So I dropped it in the 2.0 respec. I also don't have much threat problems with full frost -- not in the "yank it off a tank" sense.

I've been Arc/Fire and Frost/Arc, and I like em both for different reasons:

• Frost- Oh crap moments, mana efficient, general survivability. Safe soloing. Good in groups to erase hate tree, slow runners, etc.
• Arc/Fire- Things die fast. Way fast. Safe soloing. Good in groups with Slow (I took that one at 61), insta-kill runners, but requires being careful. It's very VERY easy to pull aggro with the post 2.0 talents in BC zones. Oh crap easily handled with Arcane Power, the general ++ goodness of crits and +DMG, and particularly if a Clearcast comes up.
  
  

All in all, after 18 months as Arc/Fire and 3 as Frost/Arc, I'm back as Arc/Fire. For me, I just like the big ass numbers. Insta-cast 3,200+ Pyroblasts with crappy gear ftw (6 tier 1 pieces, the rest already replaced by green quest crap and drops in HFP and Zand). That Illidar trinket from BC (which only requires you be awake to get) plus Arcane Power is this spec's oh crap addresser. Heck, I've used just one of those and spammed Scorch to do crazy damage.

And pre-BC, Arc/Fire for PvP insta-death, and that was when I purposely was trying to not be the 3-minute Mage. But that was at a time before Resiliency, before the dark times, before the empire. No idea how things'll play out at 70. I hear +1000 damage is not terribly difficult to come by at that point, but everyone else makes tradeoffs between their special brand of output versus anti-crit stuff.

I'm only 62.5 though so no idea how long I'll be 3-shotting things.

So, having dinged 26 last night, I'm at a crossroads (not THE crossroads).

I now have Cone of Cold, and according to teh intarnets, this means I can effectively blizzard aoe grind.  So the question is, do I keep my single target pwnage fire build, or change to an AOE grind build?  It is my intention to grind either way.

Do any current or former mages here have any insight on the effectiveness/difficulty of solo aoe grinding vs single pulls?

AOE grinding is not really good for XP unless you're really good. One screw-up can earn you a trip back to your corpse pretty quickly.

AoE grinding isn't really recommended without a buddy. The margins are so tight, one screwup and you're behind solo grinding. I found it wasn't worth it. Standard fire/arcane spec, fireball fireball nova backup fireball fireball scorch or fire blast is the way to go. When your PoM is up, open with pyroblast instead. Abuse the hell out of evocate. Buy some +fire damage potions, they are cheap.

Levels 37-40, make sure you grind in the badlands with the rock elementals, the same ones you do to get the nifty stopwatch. They give a crazy amount of gold and you can easily afford your mount at 40 if you grind from 37-40 on them.

Despite the danger or inefficiency of it, I find AOE grinding to be a lot of fun. It gets less dangerous in your mid 30s when you have a good stack of talents and int/stam that help a lot. The biggest problem you might have in your 20s is running out of mana before they all die. It's almost a mage rite of passage to practice your grouping and AOEing at the pirate camp in Tanaris. Whatever you do, don't get frostbite if you go for that route, that will screw your pulls up like nothing else.

Once you get up into the mid 50's a fun spec to try is Elemental, Fire/Ice... Once you get up higher you get the survivability of Ice with Ice block plus shatter, and you can also have Pyroblast and Blastwave for some nice burst damage. Nothing gives me more pleasure than running into a group of allies, Frost novaeing, and seeing the screen like up with 1k+ CoC crits followed by a blastwave and then the kamikaze AE...

Yeah, one of my guildies swears by an elemental spec, something like this (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000050503201230003125310000505020013005013000000). Not optimal for grinding, but has a lot of versatility in pve/pvp, and frost nova + crit blast wave is a beautiful thing.


-- Z.

Thanks for the info, guys.  As much as I'd like to try out a frost AOE grinding build, the 5g with a possibility of not being able to pull it off dissuaded me.  Maybe I'll think about it in my mid 30s or early 40s.

Good plan. AOEing doesn't really seem to pay off until well into the 30s anyway. Ya just don't have the HPs nor mana for it unless you're twinked with stuff you probably can't afford because you're worried about 5g :)

Ice Barrier and Cold Snap (for that extra emergency Frost Nova) will make AoE much more feasible. Throw in the talents for extra slow from frost effects and it just becomes a matter of keeping everything bunched up when the nova freeze effect breaks on only a few of the mobs. With enough twitch skills you can Blink through the pack and spin 180 to pull the stragglers back into line. The CoC/Shatter combo with extra slow talents not only does monster damage it also slows the enemy, allowing you to literally walk backwards and chain Arcane Explosion to finish off the stragglers.

As a bonus, the slow effects often will effect mobs that are otherwise unable to be CCed, making a Frost Mage a valuable kiter in tough dungeon situations.

Just picked these up the past 2 levels and it has done WONDERS for my survivability both solo and in groups.

Ice Barrier alone extended my time as a Frosty by a month. Awesome spell. I really miss it back as Arc/Fire. But then I'm crit'ing fire stuff like crazy with the BC gear so stuff is dead before it gets to me. Maybe I'll switch back to Frost for a bit once I've got my flying mount. 50g respecs ftl. I gotta learn to do an xfer to PTR to test stuff.

And as to an Elementalist Build, given the amount of +DMG/+Crit I'm falling all over in BC, I'd not bother with Combustion and take Ice Barrier instead. Something like this build (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/mage/talents.html?0000000000000000000000050503201230003105000000505020013005013051000). Could swap out for Ice Floes though. I may try this some year.

Hold off respeccing -- respec prices decay over time. Or they should.

I don't see any builds that reflect my current pace for mage- at level 44 I have 34 points in frost, with another 5-8 points already spent in my mind. Am I totally crazy, or will this have some usefulness? I can probably add some Arcane or Fire after level 52 or so...

It's really easy to spend all of your points in frost.  It is just a great tree.  There are a couple of mages in my guild who are full frost.

OK, so now I'm 43, (game) minutes away from 44.

I've been fire this whole time, and I'm rather addicted to the front-loaded damage.  I can approach 1k crits with no special gear ... in fact it's decidedly NON-special.

I'm curious about trying frost and everyone here seems to swear by it.   Can anyone offer some good pointers for working with a frost build?

With fire, I typically pull with fireball or pyroblast, follow up with a fireball and a scorch if there's time, nova, strafe away, fireball/scorch until dead.  If I get some unlucky resists, sometimes I have to sub in some fire blasts, but that's more mana inefficient.  If the nova is resisted, I can CoC and blink away, which gives me enough time for a fireball or two.

Also with a higher level or elite mob, I often have to dump everything I have, sometimes including blast wave, but I can handle them.

What is the best sequence for single or multi target frost work?  I have read that with crits, it can approach fire damage but also have a lot of utility.  Is that true?  And do I need frostbite to realize that?  Frostbite seems to be the fulcrum between single target damage and AOE.

this is all my opinion, of course.  This is not an AE build, which I think at level 44 is premature (chain killing oj mobs is at least as efficient as hitting multiple green, and much less risky).

non-elite, single target --> (ice barrier optional) frostbolt X 3, frost nova, take a step back, frostbolt, CoC.  pretty much they are dead at this point.  At any point if they were ice shackled, they died earlier.

elite, single target --> ice barrier, frostbolt X 3, frost nova, blink, frost bolt X 3, frost nova.  depending how much health they have left you either just CoC + fireblast or you get more distance and frostbolt some more

At level 44 (34 talent points) Talent build should definitely be all ice.  Build should include Ice Barrier and Frostbite.  Debatable whether you should go with Winter's Chill or Elemental Precision and Permafrost.  On average Winter's Chill will kill faster, but Permafrost will give you more time to move away (by foot, which blink gives you anyway).

If you plan to hit orange mobs frequently, I'd go with Elemental Precision and Permafrost.

My favorite way to go for leveling (more accurately, grinding for cash) the mage is elementalist.  MoE and shatter= one fast super efficient mage.  Not to mention elementalists are excellent at AEing, if that's your cup of tea (which it occasionally was for me).

I never played post 60 though, and havent played since the expansion came out, so maybe things change.

I've been Fire since the expansion, and I love it.  I've only got 2 in Arcane, and 3 in Frost for the spell penetration.  The rest of my points are in the fire tree.  No need to kite, most things die before they get to me.  I was worried about not having Ice Block/Barrier in 5mans, but with paladins horde-side now, and Blessing of Salvation, plus Invisibility, aggro is not really a problem.

Downside are bosses with high fire resist.  Ignite is my bread and butter, and if I can't keep it rolling, I don't feel as useful.

It is fun watching the numbers fly.

I'm thinking of a build like this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=RZZVVGcobxsco (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=RZZVVGcobxsco)

I went with winter's chill, because I barely ever fight orange mobs.

Frost channeling looks really nice at 5/5, as it lowers your overall mana usage by 15%.  That's substantial.

If I were to switch to an AOE build, I'd drop frostbite and pick up improved blizzard, but that will come later, if at all.

It only rolls twice now if that's any consolation.

Once I worked up an arcane blast rotation I got really comfortable with it in raids. A bit difficult in non-group situations due to having no front load damage 9at least with an AB/Imp Scorch build) but the dps was phenomenal and aggro free. Was a very longtime deep fire mage, though, from the first talent point.

Then I switched to shaman because somebody needs to be one.

When did this change?  Did I miss a nerf in the last patch?  I had ignite ticking for over 1.4k recently.  With molten armor on, I almost like it when they hit me (soloing) because it refreshes the ignite, and has a chance to cause an impact. 

It's been like that since the 2.0 patch. You get two rolls and each mage has his own stack. I've no doubt you've gotten a 1400 ignite tick before it wore off but it won't keep going indefinitely. Basically just pretend that your crits do 40% more damage (like a normal, boring crit talent) and you pretty much have it in one.

So, I specced Deep frost from Elemental for Arenas/Kara and I must say I underestimated it. Paticuarly in 5v5, I can survive much longer + WE is awesome for controlling and CCing those pesky warriors and rogues, not to mention to added ice lance (pew pew) crits.

Yeah, deep frost is the ultimate 'survival' build. Still, my guildie mages swear by arcane/frost at the moment (frost down to shatter+iceblock, no idea what they get in arcane other than the usual POM + AP stuff). It provides very respectable dps from two different schools in pve, and pretty good survivability + burst in pvp. Then again, I'm a dirty warlock, and the most I know about mages is how they run around in circles while feared and 4 dots ticking away-- cough, sorry, got carried away again. :p


-- Z.

The annoying thing about fighting mages as a warlock is they blink off and die too far away for you to enjoy the animation in full. They need to fix that. :mob: