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why there isn't a "American Wild West" themed MMOG?  I am only a gamer - a user - but it seems to me that a MMOG set in the American west of the 1800's would lend itself nicely to people who enjoy exploring, crafting, running a store, PvP, etc.  Not everything has have elves in it does it?  Is there some sort of fundamental problem with wild west genre that I am unaware of?

Perhaps one is under development that I am unaware of?

Thanks.

I don't know if this was a subtle way of shilling, but here you go (http://frontier1859.com/).

EDIT: Not that they're too far along. The "careers" section lists "Seeking a professional with experience pitching and selling a concept. This person should have cut at least one big deal in the past."

I wanna kill Injuns!

That is probably a major reason right there. You know, same reason there is no SimPlantation ca. 1825. No matter how hard a development tries to be historically accurate, investors are not going to get comfortable with the potential player response.

No, it certainly isn't.  I'm just a catass Eve gamer wondering why this genre was being ignored (guess it isn't).  Thanks for the link, I'll look it over.

I know of Frontier 1859 (http://www.frontier1859.com/) being in development.  Also, there is Bang Howdy (http://www.banghowdy.com/), but it's more like puzzle pirates than the typical diku clone.

Edit: You guys type faster than I do!

Trying to figure out itemization for a wild west mmo makes my head hurt. Silver bullets for wild west werewolves? Gold bullets for... uh... fuck it... DRAGONS. You probably couldn't do Diku, unless you just found names for "Six Shooter", "Better Six Shooter" and "Wow UBER Six Shooter".

I think the real problem is that it's hard enough to make one of these things profitable in the first place, and most people want elves. Some want pew pew lasers and space. The odd person ends up wanting a wild west world to play in, but if it ever happened, it'd probably be an indie venture. See PotBS.

Preemptive edit: Or Frontier 1859. There we are.

I know of at least one indie project going this direction as well, but they aren't really interested/ready for publicity yet.

The main problem is of course what was already mentioned...any time you start using historical settings, you get historical baggage as well. No one is able to get lesiglation passed against a game where you kill orcs (at least not yet anyway), but when you are killing injuns, or whipping slaves, or things along those lines, it's a lot harder.

Interestingly, I haven't seen a lot of ACLU lash back at games that do pit you against real world foes, so maybe I'm being over-pessimistic.

Deadlands ftw.

Plan Jane old west seems very boring to me especially with no death.

Found another one (http://www.wildwestsim.com/index.asp). Wild West Sim (wow, what a title) claims to be starting closed beta this summer. The web site is... sparse.

I think ultimately, the issue is that developers who have any money prefer to go with a proven theme. So far, the only kind of MMORPG that has made it big has been fantasy-themed. There are some decent also-rans in the superhero and space genres, but that's about it. Like Azaroth said, this is the domain of indy publishers, and for the most part, indy publishers struggle in the MMOG space because of the resources required to put one together.

I will tell you this, WW setting has at least last year been considered very sexy, but also very dangerous....kinda like that high class call girl you see in the hotel. You know you want her, but you're really not sure she's worth the risk.

I've heard quite a few drunk developer conversations at conventions mentioning how cool it would be to have a WW setting.

Cowboys and Indians? PVP goes old skool.

There was a game called "Priest" that fell off the radar a few years ago.

http://pc.ign.com/objects/550/550044.html (http://pc.ign.com/objects/550/550044.html)

It was to be a 3rd person twitch MMO, so who knows. The devs probably gave up after playing WOW beta.

Yeah, Priest came straight from a Korean comic (a "mahnwa" IIRC). But it wasn't a true wild west setting, just the usual dystopian/fantasy eastern thing, with undead, ghouls, werewolves and giant spiders. Wondering if it ever came out at least in Korea or it actually sunk for good.

Oh, yeah. The Civil War was a stale-mate in Deadlands.  That opens a whole lot politically incorrect goodness.

There was once a time where I cared about this subject a lot, but.....

Well, nevermind.

Yeah, Deadlands is a good fit that helps avoid any historical/political pitfalls. And at the same time, it includes MMORPG staples (that people simply must have for whatever reason) such as magic.


That's like saying melee weapons must be called "Battleaxe", "Spear", "Rapier", and "Broadsword".

Real Wild West guns had names like "Widowmaker" and "Peacemaker".

Sky's the limit as far as creating other names: The Raven, the Seraph, Paladin, Big Bertha, Bulldog, Speedmetal...

"We call this piece the Fecalator. One look at it and the target shits him or herself."

Am I the only one old enough to remember playing Boot Hill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Hill_(role-playing_game))?  I should think the P&P game in conjunction with the BioOne expansion (bullet location and bleeding factors) would make for a great PvP world.  

Drops would include guns, clothing, holsters, boots, and perhaps even horses could be gained/lost.  If you look at the mechanics of Boot Hill, they gave skill points for gunfight kills that could be used toward accuracy, speed, courage, etc.  I think done right, it would be an incredible open PvP game.  Own a shop, play sherrif, be part of a lynch mob, collect bounties, rob a bank or train... it's endless.

Yeah, that's true. I thought about that after I posted. I suppose the only problem would have to do with realism and differentiating the guns at a distance. Ie the "wow I'm kewler" effect. I'm sure some creative art fixes that problem too, but the last thing you need is red, glowing pew pew six shooters.

Did anyone else notice that the reply came four and half minutes after the first post, from two guys whose total post count is around 60? Oh well, that being said, a Deadwood type MMoG could be fun I guess. It would be a decent setting for smaller scale, non diku styled MMoG. Preferably a shooter/MMoG hybrid really.

There is a colonial+wild west RTS called No Man's Land (http://www.gogamer.com/No-Man-s-Land-Front-Page_stcVVproductId4760631VVcatId444710VVviewprod.htm) which I thought was fun.

Also Brisco County Jr. is out on DVD. Netflix ftw.

And Bang Howdy which was already mentioned is semi fun if you can stand the turn based movement aspect.

*puts on feather hats and his tomahawk*
awoo wooo woo woo woo woooo  :-o

errr did i do that right? i'm asian btw :P

The real problem with cowboys and Indians is its the worst story of human genocide in recorded history. A gunpower society took down a stone age society. YAY Team!! It is a really sad chapter. Why did they do it? Because they could.

I saw this only once, ever, at E3 2004, and the build they had playable then was fairly compelling: Indian Shaman versus American frontiersmen. Spells vs guns with a console-like combat feel to it. The whole world was public-space zoned, and you could control zones (eventually, wasn't coded in that build). I played it in Kentia Hall, itself a clue into its future.

To the original question: Aside from the ones mentioned is Bang Howdy (http://www.banghowdy.com/) from the guys who made Puzzle Pirates.

Just for reference, if you ever do that in the physical presence of a real American Indian, don't be surprised if you get your ass kicked.

If Virtual Worlds had proven as well-stocked a goldmine as MMOGs, which is to say Games, we'd have a wild west one by now. It turns out that it's hard to make the gameplay for a dancer, doctor, shopkeeper, or drunk particularly exciting and rewarding. The remaining option: Cowboy DIKU.

You could be an outlaw or a rogue lawman, but they'd have functionally identical stats and abilities. After you'd gone out into the desert and killed 4,000 rattlesnakes, 16,000 wildcats, and 40,000 rabbits you could level your marksmanship and stealth to the point that you could risk the instanced missions wherein you either robbed stagecoaches or infiltrated nefarious hideouts. You could also hang around in the bar and play cards for imaginary money for only fifteen real dollars a month.

As a Prospector you might have the ability to go pan for gold or dig for silver, hoping to strike it rich. This would involve uncountable hours of watching a progress bar. If you succeeded, you'll have to be able to survive the gauntlet of bored outlaws and bored lawmen eager to steal or tax the proceeds of your grind. I recommend killing at least 30,000 rabbits just to make sure your shotgun skill is up to snuff.

Gosh I'm getting excited. Authentic 19th century American adventure!!

Cowboy Virtual World might be fun too, but nobody will make it.

Thanks for all the leads guys, I'll look things over in depth but at first blush it seems most everything is in the concept stage with a lot of "OMG we will have the PC police WTFPWNing us" hand wringing.  You guys also seem to have one or two tinfoil hat posters here don't you?  Like I said, I'm just a dumbassed gamer and just would like to see some sort of wild west oriented MMOG.  So, FWIW:

Diku?  Uhh no.  Wait, let's make that HELL NO.

Magic in the wild west?   Make people who select to be Native Americans better at some tasks/skills but let's try and stay from being "magic".

Slavery?  Ignore it.  Don't incorporate anything related to it.  What could possibly be fun about that crap anyway?

Confict?  Hell yeah, and plenty of it!  Some great guilds are possible:  Various Indian tribes, The U.S. Army, Outlaws, Mexicans, etc.  I really think you guys might be overly worried about the PC police.  JMO, but can't you can be historically based without being historically accurate?  Letting guilds control areas gives the catasses something to sink their teeth into.

Maybe I'm just simplistic, I want heavy crafting (farming, mining, stores, etc) with plenty of non-consentual PvP available such asstreet gun fights, bar fights, range wars, bank robbing, etc. Couple this with the ability of guilds to control land and you have Eve (my game) in the wild west.  Is that historically accurate?  No, but it's historically based, and I bet it could be fun.

LOL.  Baldrake is part of my weekly gaming group.  I highly doubt he's a mole.  If he's a mole, all that time he spent writing at Grimwell.com before it shut down the first time was an AWESOME cover.   :-)

On topic, I think Deadlands would rock, but I'm afraid that it's just close enough to the Gunslinger books to see tons of people with the Raistlin effect in character naming.  I do think that a steampunk wild west MMO would rock.  I know I'd dig it.  The only MMO I've played that even had guns was SWG and, well, we know how that one turned out.

ETA -- As long as it doesn't end up being an Oregon Trail MMO, that'd be huge.  Although Oregon Trail would be rad with permadeath...everyone would die to typhoid somewhere around Kansas.

EVE has magic, in the Arthur C. Clarke sense. It has mages, pets, DPS, tanks, and healers... only they're ships instead of classes, and you can change skill-sets by stopping by a station. You don't grind experience, you grind cash and resources. Not DIKU exactly, but not far removed. You're talking about a world, and as fun as virtual worlds seem when you imagine them, they don't excite that same sort of thrill during most actual play.

Nobody other than Puzzle Pirates has made heavy crafting fun. Running a store is only fun if you have a rare commodity people want. 90% of shopkeepers will have the same things as everybody else. Street gun fights, bar fights, and bank robbing are supposed to be rare events. No more than once an hour, I hope. They're exciting because they're rare. Once people realize they're the only fun thing the game has to offer, they're all people will want to do. Walking into an open-PVP town to get something to drink at a bar will be like strolling through a zombie movie where the zombies not only want your flesh, they have guns.

I'm not saying somebody won't surprise me and produce the perfect Old West MMORPG (because you're definately interested in the RP, yes?), but I would still be surprised.

All very good point's.  I'll think on them, although I have never considered myself a RP'er I see your point.

Regards

I think part of the problem with doing a Western MMO would be getting combat right.  When you think of Westerns you think of quick-draws and one-shot kills which aren't easily translated into MMO's, thanks in part to latency.

Nail meet coffin.

Nice work Velorath.

Shooter combat just doesn't translate well to MMOG's unless you are going some kind of sci-fi route so you can explain why you have to shoot something 20 times before it dies.  But if there is a setting that brings out the more cut-throat pvp+ crowd I would imagine the wild west is that setting.  So now we have a real problem.  Unless you are going to make a MMO that not only operates in a totally untested setting.  It also overcomes the whole making pvp not suck balls problem that every other developer who has tried to make pvp an integral part of their gameplay has encountered.

When a massive multiplayer game that gives pvp much more then the lip-service of WoW hits A+ moneyhat status I expect we'll see a Wild West MMO announced within a year.  In the time honored tradition of making wild claims from no position of authority on the internet that is.

As a European, Indians vs Cowboys doesn't have that much appeal to me. Luckily our history has something similar. I just wonder why no-one has made Nazis vs. Jews MMOG yet? The setting is perfect for all kinds of PVP. As a Nazi, you could kill Jews, take their property and advance your career in SS or other organizations. As a Jew, you could amass Nazi money, gather Nazi blood for your rituals and prepare your world domination.

That would be rad.

Not only that I'm not sure about the marketability of a wild west MMO. How would it play in Asia?

They have shitloads of wildwest themed or inspired anime and manga, so I guess it could work.

I'll second Velorath on the mechanics issue, and follow on with the way the setting cries out for hardcore PvP.  Oneshot permadeath PvP gameplay, hmmmm.

Ignore slavery?  Not much of a Wild West without the Buffalo Soldiers.  And Confederate Renegades.  You going to leave Jesse James out too?  If you use a historic setting, you need to confront the historic dilemmas, otherwise you'd be better off doing a Trigun MMO.

Maybe the proposed Firefly MMO will come close to this since Firefly is a western in space.

Luck as HP. When your Luck runs out, you die.

Dude, don't Godwin an otherwise good thread.

If devs would shoot for successful niche games, instead of trying to appeal to everyone, then how the game plays in Asia wouldn't necessarily be relevant.

Lot's of interesting links and points made.  Let me respond to a number of them in no particular order:

The only game I'm seeing that comes close to what I was originally looking for was the 1859 one.  From what I read at that site it appears to be more along the lines of somebody's dream or idea than a credible concept.  Pretty much in the pre-concept stage and has been there quite a while from the looks of it.

Slavery: Could the setting not be post-1865?  If not, could the exact time and place of our wild west world just be finessed or ignored?  Obviously slavery should not be a part of this world.  Can't we be historically based without being historically accurate?

Cowboys vs Indians, genocide, and the ugly “unfun” part of history:  Two posters made lame attempts at being sarcastic about this problem and all I can say is "it's how you do it".  Look at Roma Victor.  Do you see players nailing Jews to crosses?  It's easy to just make a fantasy world and avoid the problems of historical baggage, and maybe I am just to naïve to know better, but I bet it could be done by somebody smarter than me.

Crafting, stores, the carebear side of the wild west:  Ever play ATitD?  Crafting can be fun.  Ever play Eve or Second Life?  Running a store, building a business, etc can be fun.  Correct me if I am wrong, but don't you only need a small segment of your players to enjoy hard core crafting to provide enough goods and services for the people who make up the bulk of the game - the PvPer’s?

Permadeath:  I've never been a fan of permadeath for the reasons I am sure you MMOG gurus already know.  I don't want to spend a year working on a crafter and have some griefer 15 minutes into the game walk into my store, pull out a shotgun, and blow my head off.  So how can you have a persistent online wild west world without permadeath?  I guess the Westworld approach might work.  I'm not qualified to answer the problem, I just know I wouldn't want to play any online game where I have a significant amount of time devoted to developing my character that can be wiped out from one mistake or poorly timed phone call.

Regards

It's hard to be niche when a MMORPG costs so much money to make.

Can't have that, so let's just ignore it, pretend it never happened.

Its done all the time.

I don't see why it "obviously" shouldn't be part of the world. You'll probably not want to allow player personally participate in this sort of activity, but it doesn't mean it cannot be made part of world setting and referenced in dialogues, settings, quest setups etc. Hey, if done right you could maybe even have people learn a thing or two as the result.

Just because it was shitty thing to do doesn't mean it has to be swept under rug so everyone can pretend the pink elephant in the middle of living room never was there.

I would SO buy this game.

With Non consentual PvP, there might be a few thousand (maybe even 10k) who would also buy it.
I don't think that's not enough of a market giving the costs.

Gunfights also kinda lose their luster after you respawn for the 30th time.

Game worlds can ignore historical accuracy for the very same reason movies and TV can: the average person is seeking entertainment, and maybe some validation that their perception of history replete with a bunch of bumbling rock throwers is accurate. I take a very dim view with folks who spout TV fact, but otherwise would be fine with a game world that doesn't at all claim accuracy.

Totally unfettered non-consentual PvP would be a mess. Something like high sec space (EVE) or heavily guarded towns (UO) would work- you are free to engage in combat, but if you start it, you are getting your ass handed to you by the authorities. Maybe some random posses could roam the wilderness near towns to scare off the ne'erdowells, with their frequency and power getting lower as you get further from civilization. Bushwhacking bandits were a problem, so the ganker PKs would fill that role nicely.

It's a game. You know, game? It doesn't have to be a chronicle of all man's evils. It's not a text book pal.

Alternate Wild West with Zombies?

Your ideas intrigue me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

:)

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

EVE works because the game is heavily abstracted and there are layers of defense before damage is dealt. Fights take a long time and involve a variety of tactics because each ship has so many spells and abilities that piercing them all is a bit of a puzzle. The standard tropes of pulp fiction's cowboy genre don't allow for that sort of complexity. UO is a better example. Inside town there are guards who kill you in a single hit. Outside town there are teams of gankers who kill you in less than three seconds.

Two words: Trammel, Felucca. Which was more popular?


Bushwhacking bandits were a problem. That's why only the most poor, desperate, helpless folks ended up on the frontier. Most Americans stayed in the cities of the east and midwest because although life was a dull grind, at least there weren't roaming gangs of ne'er-do-wells waiting to rob your house, rape your daughter, and run off with your herd every time you took a trip to town to buy some sugar.

Being the lone lawman fighting hordes of outlaws to keep your town safe makes for cool cinema... because ultimately the lawman wins and order is restored. In UO and EVE the outlaws always win... and without the constant intervention of NPC law enforcement demigods, the world would descend into a messy and rather unfun chaos.

Another thing about cinema: It cuts every unnecessary scene. You don't watch the lawman ride his horse for half an hour. You don't watch the prospector sit in the bar for two and a half hours trying to forget his sorrows. You don't watch a cowboy cook and eat dinner alone. Life, even in fascinating and dangerous places, is mostly a boring affair. Players in a game want to take part in frequent action scenes. In a single player game you can skip to those segments, but in a persistant world everything has to happen real time for everybody. Either the game ends up as boring as real life, or the frequency of exciting action becomes so extreme that it loses its power to surprise and entertain.

What you are imagining when you think you'd like to play a wild west MMORPG is the two or three good stories you'd have after playing the game for two and a half years. All the rest of the gameplay would be too boring and repetative to mention. "Then some outlaws jumped us and we made a close escape," isn't a good story if it happens every time you leave town. Still, it's a better story than "Then some outlaws jumped us and we died," and there's no reason not to assume that one would be less common.


I know! Pretty awesome. Interestingly, zombies are also the only archetype I could think of both mindless and violent enough to represent the majority of players attracted to non-consentual PvP.  Nobody ever complains that zombie AI isn't complex enough, for example, or that their respawn rate seems unrealistic. It would certainly work better with the DIKU model... level up fighting zombies instead of prairie critters. I'll go get my head measured for a money hat.

Here is my idea for the game.

First off, include Indians and slavery. Hope for ACLU and other organizations to make a fuss (thus producing a free buzz, there is no such thing as bad publicity). You would not exploit this, but could use it for mission purposes or bounty stuff.

Skill based system. Offline skill gain (ala EVE), online accelerated skill gain. What I mean by this is if you are out hunting deer or contracted to fight off Indians or something, your gun accuracy skill gains at 2x. There would be a cap to offline skill gain for PVP skills. Maybe have 2 trees of skills, combat and non-combat. Can train one of each at a time.

Weapons would have to be range based I would think. There would be dueling pistols, long range rifles, shotguns, cheaper pistols, etc. Master crafted ones could increase accuracy/damage.

Death. Some percentage of PVP skills are lost, as well as any weapon you had equipped, and cash on hand. You will not wanted to just run around on a killing spree, choose your battles and risk vrs. reward carefully. You wake up in a cheap hospital be tended by whores.

Banks would be hugely important due to this fact. To knock a bank off, you would need organization, a lot of numbers, and a big set of nuts.

Player Housing/ Buildings. Make your own Deadwood. Skills for this could be raised over time, and could be quite lucrative if dedicated towards this as a profession. Not everyone will have a pocket Architect.  After a town has been established, marshalls move in for security and such. Player housing would be needed for storage, bank will only have only so many slots.

Duel would be an event that two characters initiate and both accept. The actual duel would be a mini game, semi twitch. Something like it has a generic body in front of you with your crosshairs starting at a random spot along the edge of the gui. First shot to land directly in a kill zone wins duel.  Skills could help the steadiness of the hand, speed of re-fire, size of kill zone, speed of crosshair. You could do a sort of practice with beer and whiskey bottles to learn the mechanics and get used to how your skills are effecting it.

Horses arent cheap. There is a reason stealing a horse was a hanging offense. People could make money off buying a horse and buggy and doing deliveries/trading/passengers (tradewars/eve-esque). Might have to hire NPC or PC guards to give a better chance against an ambush.

Gambling. No limit holdem minigame (tournament form), standard dealer's choice, etc).

Some social skills. Some are improved via drinks, others lowered.

Bar fights. Straight from AoC idea, penalty free. Loser cant go in the tavern for a while.


There's my 10 min brainstorm idea for a WW MMO.

Yeah, lets generalize a little more.

pxib: :thumbs_up:

Lots of possibilities here, and I've wished for an MMOG placed in such a setting... ...but to make it truly interesting, would have to deviate a bit from reality -- I am thinking in the vein of Wild Wild West TV show (not the craptacular Will Smith movie)...

Sure, there can be all the thrills of gunfights, bank robbery, stage coach robbery, train robbery, saloon gambling and frolicing, horses, riverboats, etc... ...but throw in Indian spirts, cursed and blessed artifacts, witch doctors, tribal priests, missionionaries and Christian priests with supernatural power.

Robber barons, indian chief/warriors, holy men, marshalls/sheriffs, plantation owners, sharecropper lords, army generals, etc... ...could make for a colorful game...

I think some thing along the lines of "The Dark Tower" as a MMOG would do better. Wild West meets Post Apocalyptical Future, that way you could have all the standard stuff like Six Shooter, but also you could discover "old tech". I donno. Pure wild west doesnt really appeal to me. Maybe Wild West meets Steampunk kind of like the crappy Will Smith movie The Wild Wild West. That could be interesting also.
The one thing is, the setting does NOT lend its self to Diku (Hey Signe, DIKU DIKU DIKU), because how would you do a tank class? Brawler I guess or something, but that would just seem really out of place in a pure wild west setting to me.

I think you hit on something here. The Wild West, you have the necessity of 'law enforcement demigoods' to keep things running in semi-order. They are the heroes who do the cool things and ultimately win. Then you have countless amounts of bandits roaming about and causing trouble in many different ways. *And* it's common for MMO to put player in the shoes of nearly god-like characters who can win against the odds.

In short, it would probably be quite workable if you put the players in the role of the law-enforcers in the wild west, while the bandit role is limited to NPCs. It may not appeal to all-out PvP crowd but it'd be possibly quite doable for the mainstream PvE-oriented audience. Heck, the old coin-ops utilized the very same gameplay model (lone sheriff, and the levels filled with countless generic bandits and a 'super bandit' bosses with all sorts of tricks every now and then)

If anyone could figure out a way to make PvP that was a rare occurance due to harsh consequences but occasionally fathomable and possible (only if really important to do so, for honor or politics or economics or whatever), that would be cool.  "x got into a duel at dawn with y" with light penalty or even 'x murdered y' with harsh ones would then be a big deal.  That would be cool, I say again.  Naming policy here would be nice, so x wouldn't be 'reginald dicknut' and y wouldn't be 'jez jamez'.  I suppose it would be tough to maintain realism without having perma-death, which is probably unacceptable.  But maybe one could figure out some sort of compromise to make PvP meaningful.

I also think that an alternate wild west setting would work best.  Something with a bit more variation, less loaded with baggage, and the ability to fit the setting to the needs of the game all push in that direction.

Though I know it would kill box sales, this type of game would be one in which perma-death would add an interesting dynamic.  Gaining accuracy and speed through gunfights would make you a scary person to tangle with and thus would add to reputation in game.

Noone ever minded dying in the Boot Hill table top because rerolling was pretty fun and dying wasn't all that painful.  I could see that here as well, especially if people could opt out of gunfights (duels).  I do see this as being easily exploitable though... working around that could take some thought.

Edit: Ok, perma death is never a good idea and would be too niche to consider.  I just got carried away.

Morphiend is right in that a pure WW game wouldn't really have legs. Not enough items or enemies. Every enemy would be some angry human - boring.

Add in some zombies, vampires, creatures, mutants, etc. and you might have something.

In many ways Fallen Earth might meet some of these requirements. It's a post-apoc MMOG and, whenever it finally launches, will likely put players into a pretty disparate, pared back existance.

But yeah, it's either Deadlands or maybe Fallen Earth that will provide you with a "Western" MMOG. And neither appear anywhere close to launch.

Zombies.  And Robots.  Robots are cool.  Maybe even Zombie robots.  Or you could have three factions and do realm PvP like DAOC

Faction 1) Zombies
Faction 2) Robots with gunz
Faction 3) Western Peoplez.

If only Lost Continents hadn't been folded. It was aiming for 20s/30s/40s Pulp Fiction goodness. Cowboys and robots and headshrinkers and zombies, oh my! But that is long past now.

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

You guys are trying to ruin my Wild West MMOG dreams by adding zombies and robots.  I hate you!

I WANT BOOT HILL ONLINE DAMNIT!

I was having trouble sleeping last night...I think I had half this game designed in my head by the time I finally drifted off. Wish I had 25M and an staff of 100 at my disposal.

I'll write you a check for $25 million right now.  If you need REAL money, you may have to start looking elsewhere.

Heh. I'm working on a Pen and Paper setting sort of along these lines. Except it's in the 1730's instead of 18xx's.

You have all of the Spanish main to play with, wars between the Spanish, English French and their various colonists and allies, Native American Shamans / Druids, European magic based on intervention of the saints (ala Darklands), Alchemy and 'Electromancy', All sorts of Secret Societies to play with (Freemasons, Templars, Illuminati)...

But then I'm biased I guess. I find the Early Colonial period far more interesting than the 'wild west'.

*shrug*

I would solve Cowboys vs Indians with lore: in the area of the game, much genocide has already taken place. While many say it happened due to disease and tribal infighting, there are clues it was due to sinister actions of The Bad Boss (massacres, driving tribes out, deliberately spreading disease, all kinds of rumoured horrors). There are some surviving Indians in quest NPC and trader roles, lamenting the loss of their people and telling their side of the story, and the white people vary from sympathetic to neutral to cheering the Bad Boss on. No evidence is ever quite conclusive.

This leaves the main plot open to conflicts between the good, the bad and the ugly in the game world. At the same time, it allows the game to pay respect to Native American culture and highlight historical wrongs.