f13.net

Jeez, FASA has some good products out there. Battletech too, btw. Quite the rich story line. And what's cooler than the Matrix or BattleMechs!?

Battletech would be nice. They removed the Battlepods from my local Dave and Buster's. I was an unhappy camper.

Dave and Buster's ... AKA...  Chuckie Cheeses for Adults.

That being said, you just know someone would screw that IP up b/c it has too many elements.  Cyberpunk hacking plus magic plus biomod weaponry and big guns and vehicles. Too many different game systems would end up with each of them being meh, leading to a world of suck from a cool license.

Xilren

Would be glad to NOT see elves and orcs for awhile no matter timeline or setting they're in.

Chuckie's wouldn't be so bad (my kid loves it) if they had booze too. :) Dave and Busters? Mucho booze.

You'd hope they'd do it in stages. First is just combat, second is hacking, third goes into rigging.....

Or they'd simplify it: Fighter, Hacker, Mage and sub-class from there.

You launch format -f at a lvl 3 ICE.
You hit the lvl 3 ICE for 6 points of damage!
The lvl 3 ICE attacks you with a voltage oscillation.
The lvl 3 ICE hits you for 829 points of damage!
You have died!
Please wait, loading...

I'll get right on it.  I'll need a million dollars and lawyers to stave off Microsoft's claim on the copyright.

After all, there's not much chance these guys (http://www.shadowrun-online.com/sro/) are going to pull off their strategy of making a game and hoping Microsoft will buy it from them.

Unfortunately Microsoft does not want to treat these properties as MMOs.

Shadowrun is going to be a silly Vista launch FPS.  Battletech 3025 was killed a few months prior to release, speculatively because of MS shenanigans.

http://www.shadowrun-online.com/sro/ ?

Little indie project - but apparently they've already been contacted by Microsoft. About what and who is anyone's guess.

I am in for a box and a month if they get it off and running.

Well, the project is being touted as a Proof of Concept to propose to MGS. They're using Torque right now.

I dunno, some of the stuff looks pretty good. From the one person I know in the project (lower down, real life pal of mine) they have some pretty good guys on the team.

I'd say closer to a couple of weeks prior to release, that game was all but done. And the MS shenanigans was buying FASA, and then having EA realize that meant they lost their rights to Battletech, and folding shop. Shadowrun will never be made into an MMO because one of the things that will determine that is the performance of the Vistariffic FPS. It will tank, and Microsoft will write off the franchise.

I liked Battlefield 3025 (the recent canceled match-based online game - this one) when I played it in beta, but rose quite a stink that the game had no cones of fire.  As a result, a medium laser was as accurate as a PPC, and that totally defeated the balance that FASA put into them. 

For old time's sake, I'll illustrate the point:

Medium lasers were like 1-3 (+0 BTH), 4-6 (+2 BTH), 7-9 (+4 BTH).
PPCs were like 0-3 (too close, +6 BTH penalty), 3-6 (+0 BTH), 7-12 (+2 BTH), 13-18 (+4 BTH).
BTH being a Base to Hit modification on a 2d6 roll.  So basically, all weapons had a certain range in which their accuracy fell off, and this would have been perfectly modeled by a cone of fire.

Because BT3025 lacked that cone, after a few days of practice you could surgically remove whatever you wanted at the maximum range of whatever weapon you've got with equal ease of longer range weapons.

No, I didn't write this to troll Megrim.

One important thing I forgot to mention, the reason why it mattered that a PPC couldn't be as accurate as a medium laser was because Battlefield 3025  (the canceled semi-MMOG) took the original mech designs from the source material.  These designs were built using specific building rules that had each weapon take up a varying amount of weight and critical slots out of the maximum a mech could have.  Putting a Particle Projection Cannon (PPC) on a mech would prevent you from mounting up to six medium lasers, and yet it only did as much damage as two of them.  The accuracy advantage (not to mention random location damage assignment) is what made that work, and as long as they had no cone of fire there was no accuracy advantage.  Thus, the decision to have no cone of fire yet preserve the original designs broke the back of the balance.  The actual range of the weapon was nothing compared to the accuracy consideration.

Microsoft, who owns the computer gaming rights to the FASA products via their acquisition of FASA Interactive, seems to be allergic to MMOs at the moment. They did publish AC 1 and 2 but 2 obviously didn't do so well and then they cancelled Mythica to focus their attention on Vanguard and then they gave *that* back to Sigil. They, along with EA, seem to be content to sit on the MMOG sidelines right now, even though they have the most resources to plow into such endeavours. EA does seem to be stirring a bit with their acquisition of Mythic but they also haven't announced any new projects yet so nothing really has changed except for some Mythic-related people getting a ton of money.

Shadowrun MMO is like the newest nerd trend. 

Nah, that became passe when people found out the Shadowrun game MS was working on was a shooter. The newest nerd MMO trend is the Deadlands one.

All the cool nerds are waiting for Deadlands.

Microsoft holds FASA's properties. Which means the only option is to copy every element of Shadowrun into a MMOG, but change the important names. Boy, I can't wait for Darksprint Online so I can play a cyborg trollzor!

Maybe they can make a Renegade Legion: Interceptor MMORPG.  After all, they did make Alleigence.

BT3025 certainly wasn't perfect, but it was the closest to the source material we will ever see.  We had fun at all weight classes and that is what mattered to me.

I'm there for Darksprint Online.

I didn't play BT3025 but MechWarrior 2 was the awesomest.

Good point.  Close though.

I refuse to believe that Microsoft holds trademarks on Elves, Orks, and machine guns.  If you write a good Shadowrun MMO and Microsoft kicks your ass, it'll take you all of about five minutes to change all the copyrighted names.

But yeah, I agree with Xilren.  There are just too many ways to screw it up.  I suppose you could release it in stages, theoretically, but has that ever worked before?

Since Shadowrun is little more than cybernetic elves wearing trenchcoats and packing BFGs, there's no need for a Shadowrun MMO.  City of Heroes has you covered!

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r191/dda_photos/cyberelf.jpg)

So what you're saying is, "Damn whatever else about Shadowrun, the real reason it's cool is actually because of elves and orcs...We just need to rip off that"?  :-(

Shadowrun minus the fairy magic would still rock my world.  A cyberpunk world where investigation, stealth, information peddling really matter -- plus blowing shit up.  My choice right now would be CCP for it.  But they're distracted with White Wolf stuff for the phuture.

Ah, oops, heh.  What I actually meant was that most of the uniqueness of Shadowrun comes from combining very generic elements in unique ways (Elven computer hackers,  Cyborgs vs. Wizards, etc.).  If someone were to make a Shadowrun ripoff, even if it was very blatant and very direct, and Microsoft made them remove everything that was copyrighted, what you'd end up with could still be pretty close to Shadowrun.  You can probably still do a game about dwarfs and cyborgs being mercenaries in the future without running into copyright issues with Microsoft, because if Microsoft owned the copyright on this stuff, every other game company in the world would shut down for lack of ideas.

Yeah, I played that too. Hell, they could run *that* as an MMO. It would be like Eve on the ground. You are your mech, or something like that.

All I know is that I get tired of the fantasy crap, and since SWG won't likely ever recover, something should step up and fill the void. What they hell is it about Eleves anyway? They're all such snobs.

Is it just me, or do the "potentially" coolest MMO's come from paper & pencil RPG's?

I think part of that is nostalgia- looking back on character concepts, adventures, etc you have had in the past. Once someone else gets the IP and starts interpreting things THEIR way, all bets are off.

Shadowbane or Cyberpunk would f'ing rule if someone had the nads to make a skill-based (NO DIKU KTHX) system.

Implementation is key, and the implementation in most Pencil & Paper games is more open ended than the most free-form MMO could ever hope to be.  Take a Shadowrun game where you're stuck playing as one of six pregenerated characters with immutable abilities and you can only ever do two or three things as you move along a linear plot, and suddenly the setting doesn't look so interesting. 

IMHO, the Mechwarrior that best captured that PnP Battletech vibe was number 3.  Both 2 and 4 fudged the rules pretty heavily in key places that made my Battletech nerd senses wrankle.  Granted, I was really into playing Battletech over telnet back before the turn of the century.

As for Shadowrun computerized versions, the best I've seen was the SNES version. But then, the SNES version was the only one I've seen, having not played the Genesis one.

Agreed that when it comes to taking a PNP RPG and turning it into a CRPG, implementation is definately key.  D&D games are a good example of that - you'll find them ranging some sucky to decent throughout the dozens of CRPG conversions made.

Wonder how come no one is screaming for a Call of Cthulhu MMO yet...

EDIT: Guess it'd be helluva fun playing a Deep One tho... or a Fungus from Yuggoth

permadeath is a bitch.

Heh.. not so much. It's just a matter of how many strange aeons you can wait...

oh no, no I meant for the victims. Not everyone can be a Jedi Old one.

Did I ever menntion I'd play Planescape: Torment The MMOG even if it was a diku-derivitive. I would play it and love it and call it my own. Blessed be the Lady of Pain.

I'm trying to search within myself, but I don't think there's any setting that could do that for me. It'd still have to be something other than diku.

I didn't say I'd play it for more than the first month. Though, I may pay the subscription fee every month just to give Planescape that extra sub.

MMOGs depress me.

We've been set back a bit by games having proven there's a lot more people out there willing to play the same crap that has been delivered countless times before.

My eye's on Tabula Rasa. I don't care if it isn't successful. And I set aside it only having a 50% chance of launching. I just want something different enough, but not alienating.

There seems to be a definitive lack of MMORPG developers able to secure funding on a game that doesn't resemble a diku.  Friggin clone-happy investors.

Screw Shadowrun, lets make our own property.  It'll have everything Shadowrun does and also deep space exploration, extra-dimensional encounters, vampire/werewolf PC support, and fetuspults.

Or did Fa$a expansions already cover all those angles?

I already said I'd want a Wild West MMO with Racial Wars + Brothel, Sheriff, and Bartender Tycoon mini games within. You can put it in space and have fetuspults and werewolves if you want.

Also, put in cannibalism (anyone seen Ravenous?). Bring back jerky. That'd make an excellent addition.

As for something "created", I had this idea for a comic book once. It's basically a world modeled after Africa. The world wasn't very original, I guess, but it was more about the story (which I thought was original).

World-wise, take every well known species in the Congo and Sahara, and turn them into humanoids. Pretty simple. The strongest two factions were the Elephants (who had a peaceful Hindu-ish/Shaman motif, of course), and the Felines (ruled by Lions, naturally). All apes and monkeys were slaves on the point of rebellion, snakes were urban/rogue-ish/political (the main character in the story was an Iago ripoff basically), and Hyenas and vultures were modeled after the biker gangs in Road Warrior. Weaker species were just oppressed civilians of some sort (Zebras, Gazelles, etc..).

Also, it has nothing to do with the Lion King (which I've never seen...and that's the truth). But something a little more mature and fantasy like. More like Planet of the Apes (animals with armor, weapons, buildings).

I wanted all the weapons and armor to be high tech, yet primitive and organic (like the fishbone gun in Existenz, for example).

And to top it off, there's plenty of room for expansions!  :roll: You could add the Amazon, Australia, even North America. Want to see a Grizzly fight a Silverback? I do.

Or maybe you could just go the route of adding Insect Kingdoms or something...

Telling from WoW though, most people probably like playing races that are more "human like".

But yeah, I may be a furry and not even know it...


Back to sci-fi, Eve with more dogfighting and American sensibilities would be fine. Europeans have no sense of "space cowboys". It's all trance music, strange collars, and pretty nebulas to them. Just give me Han Solo Online and be done with it.

Luckily.

Isn't it true that an MMO with , say, 5k subscripbers can make some money? Isn't ATitD hovering around 5k or so, with, what, 10 devs, maybe? Maybe its me, but I would rathe rplay an MMO with mediocre graphics and a great deal of depth AND breadth than a flashy, slick copy of whatever is considered "hot". I really did mean it when I said in some other thread that someone should twist Pharoah's arm and make him put in combat, a world currency, and offline vendors. And skill limitations too, I think. If they did that, I can't help but think that game would just explode.

I crave something other than a hack & slash then lewt game. Something that makes you *think* use strategy, and that has consequences in it. SOmething people older than 16 are interested in playing (no disrespect to (most) younger players).

I haven't played ATiTD, or seen it or anything, but from what I've heard, putting combat in there would be an NGE level screw up.  The game (people tell me) isn't built to handle it at all, there's no reason to do it, and it could easily ruin the already existing content (feel free to correct my massively unreliable impression here, though, if you disagree).

I think, though, that part of the POINT of being a niche game (like ATiTD) is that you don't have to bend over backwards to throw in mechanics like combat just because all the cool kids are doing it.  They've built a solid, profitable crafting game.  Why should they compromise their design just to pull in more numbers?  Seems kind of odd to me to say that you don't want to play a game that's a cash-grab copy of World of Warcraft, and then in the very next sentence turn around and say that they should change their game to include a bunch of elements that Dikus have so that they can become more profitable.

MMOGs today do have strategy. It's just by the time that you get to it, this strategy has been used so often that it has been codified into a "you must do THIS like THIS" set of instructions.

That, and strategy also relies on other players to listen to you. Herding cats, and all that...

Unless anyone thinks coding in a Hebrew uprising would be a good idea, then yeah, pretty stupid. It'd be like including a Nascar Racing Game inside Donkey Kong. Two completely different things and all that. ATitD is a crafter's paradise, and should remain that.

One thing they could include though (I think) is how certain activities are presented. It still feels simulation like more than it feels puzzle-like -- and I think it's to it's detriment. It could still be educational and a carnival of rides and games at the same time.

Not to say there aren't puzzles in it, but they aren't presented in a very fun way.

Other improvements: They don't need a better engine necessarily, but they need some better artists. The game looks atrocious, and I bet there's a few dozen out of their own playerbase who could probably do a better job if they let them.

Thirdly: Enough with Egypt already. Damn. Let me live out the life of some dirty peasant in some pseudo-Python-esque medieval world. Or maybe an early North American colonist....Or a Wild West colonist....Or a Carribean colonist. Or maybe a Martian colonist. Hell, A Tale in Siberia would be interesting at this point.

[edit] I'm full of edits tonight. Sorry.

Ugh. Strongly agreed. And I dare to say: bingo! Now I want to play that game.

Good Grief!  You really ARE Italian.  And an elderly woman, to boot! 

(we might be related)

We definitely are, as proved by your new avatar. In fact, I am the one on the left (assuming you are the one on the right).

We look good for our ages.

I see you received my skull candle.

You ever play any of those 'Troll Tribes' series of maps in Warcraft 3? Those are fun. Think a frozen tundra with survivalist trolls.

You have a food and 'Warmth' (sometimes also a third 'tiredness') rating that you have to keep both up, by playing Mr. Survivalist - gathering sticks and tinder and combining them in a certain way in your inventory creates 'Fire', or you can combine clay and sticks to make a little hut.

It's actually pretty damn fun, and when you throw in the whole combat element of it (have to combine a stone and sticks to make a stone spear, or something along those lines of it), you have survivalist + combat.

I think if they made 'A Tale In Siberia', they should do something along those lines (at least the survivalist part) - instill a sense of urgency into the game.