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Title: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on November 29, 2006, 05:20:50 AM http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=77838804EC3B659B01601E3CF5B4D092?topicId=51145118&sid=1
In a surprise move, Blizzard actually tells us in advance! Woot, papa needs a new pair of shoes! Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on November 29, 2006, 08:59:09 AM I'm glad. Maybe this will get rid of all the bozo honor farmers this week. Last weekend (AV weekend) was the worst AVs I've ever been in. My record was 2 wins, 11 losses (and those 11 were in a row - I was in a foul mood Saturday, which is when I played 8 of them - that's all I did Saturday, in fact).
Here's how several games went. Alliance heads to Galv, Horde heads to SH, some alliance guy takes Snowfall. Horde has 8-10 defending between IB gy and Galv. Alliance dies and has to go back to SP. Alliance has been conditioned to never, ever take SH or else people automatically cry "TURTLE." Within 10 or so minutes, everyone is at SP or between SP and SH playing defense. Snowfall capped, but people want to push their way to it. Still, when someone wants to take SH to push horde further, people deride him and shout "TURTLE." After 12 minutes, random alliance idiots say, "Oh, let them win, we've already lost." When I suggest that they have a friend queue them for AB or WSG to get them out without the deserter debuff, I'm told, "I've already invested 15 minutes here!" Second scenario: Got O and D split up fairly well, push our way past Horde at Galv and take IB. Continue down to FW, take that. Meanwhile Horde go all out, practically, so alliance enters FW keep and lo and behold not a single tank for the WMs. This happens way more often than it should. I miss the days before the BG merge only because we used to win 75% of the AVs. The massive stupidity I've seen on this past AV weekend sucks all of the joy out of that bg. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on November 29, 2006, 09:45:14 AM Whats amusing about that story, is that I am horde on Tichondrious (battle group 9), and for a while, it was almost the exact same thing, except we kept losing.
Before cross server battlegrounds, Tich horde won about 90% of our AV games, once the cross server stuff started going, Horde were lucky to win one in 8 to 10 games. Our Horde were somehow convinced that because the Alliance on our battlegoup could constantly win with the Cap and rush strategy, that a Rush to SP would work for us. So 90% of the time you would just get idiots blind rushing up to SH, someone would tap it, and then the whole mass would spend the next 20 minutes throwing themselves mindlessly into the defensive choke point that is the road leading up to SP graveyard and never advance any farther. 15 Alliance can defend SP graveyard almost indefinately and without effort when the Horde try to charge along the road. Meanwhile, since the Horde weekend warriors on our Battlegroup have an almost pathological aversion to Defense, the Alliance get 20 people, and simply steamroll over SF, roll Galvager under, swat down the 3 or 4 people actually trying to defend, and roll into iceblood. Either that, or they take all 20, sneak back to frostwolf, and cap FW, both Towers, and the FWRH at the same time. Now that we FINALLY are starting to get people playing Defense, the alliance dont know how to adjust. Give the alliance SF, and have 15 people on D hold them bottled up at Galvager / Iceblood, and you usually win the game. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Zane0 on November 29, 2006, 10:20:50 AM This is going to break a few UI mods for good, so uh, be ready!
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Trouble on November 29, 2006, 12:04:39 PM I don't know why Blizzard is referring to this as a PvP patch, maybe because they envision raiding not happening anymore I guess. This is a far reaching patch, changing many of the core mechnics of the game. It IS WoW 2.0. To call it a PvP patch is...not entirely accurate.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on November 29, 2006, 12:18:43 PM True, my class (Hunter) gets its world flipped.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on November 29, 2006, 12:57:58 PM But it is a PvP patch, because the consequences on the game have more to do with the PvP changes than anything else at all. You are no longer going to be in competition with anybody else to earn PvP rewards. They have gone from being the most mind-bendingly difficult to procure epics to the most trivially easy. If you dont put in the frankly minute number of hours to get the remaining epics you need for your character(s) before the expansion pack, you're messing up. Forget BWL, AQ, even Naxx - if you don't have the whole thing on farm status and if you're not substantially done with your drops there and leading a DKP race, you're better off heading to the PvP instances to prep yourself for the expansion. Nobody does this apply to more than classes that are changing - got a hunter with awesome agility weapons and jewelery? Most of that non-hunter-specific stuff isn't being converted, and you now want AP heavy replacements. As does every other person in your class in your guild. PvP. It's a PvP patch.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Lt.Dan on November 29, 2006, 01:53:32 PM Is this the 468Mb patch that's been downloading after you log out? If it is, brace yourselves for pain - even now it's only downloading at 15Kb/s. Come patch day ...
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: tazelbain on November 29, 2006, 01:59:01 PM This has me seriously considering WoW for the first time. So about how long does it take to make out under the new system?
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on November 29, 2006, 03:02:25 PM If you catassed it, it would take you under a month to get completely epic'd out in full high warlord armor, weapons and bling. The real attraction is that you can do as little you like as infrequently as you like and still make progress, however slow. Previously, playing a few AVs and ABs every week for a year would get you a lowly rank good for crap. Now you get no rank, but you get rewards commensurate with overall honor. In other words, its now like earning PvP currency rather than a position in a league table.
http://community.livejournal.com/worldofwarcraft/4550993.html Hunters may want to get the ammo pouch for 10 AV tokens & 2250 honor before TBC. It's 15% haste like the quest quiver, and there seems to be a wider selection of easy to get guns early in TBC than there are bows or crossbows. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on November 29, 2006, 03:11:43 PM This has me seriously considering WoW for the first time. So about how long does it take to make out under the new system? I resubbed for this patch and TBC, so I hope it delivers. I might not get TBC if this is a letdown. My lock is stuck with the best gear I could get without a raiding investment (my guild raids, but I don't because it's the mose boring and frustrating thing on earth), and with this patch I will finally be able to get some more upgrades. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on November 29, 2006, 04:00:31 PM Is this the 468Mb patch that's been downloading after you log out? If it is, brace yourselves for pain - even now it's only downloading at 15Kb/s. Come patch day ... The background downloader supposedly has a smaller throat, so it can run while you're playing WoW. The idea is to let it download over several days rather than trying all at once on patch day itself. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Fabricated on November 29, 2006, 04:27:59 PM Here's some stuff I want the people here who actually care about WoW math bullshit to explain to me:
-It looks like the "Rating" system for crit/defense/hit/etc is going in this patch. Explain the defense rating to me. Is that exactly the same as it was before? Do I just get more points to my defense skill? Is the skill being made less effective? Because even blue +defense gear is getting a boost from the looks of it. I understand the rest of the ratings (10 crit rating = ~1% crit for a level 60, goes down as you get to 70, and then it's like 0.6-0.7%), just not the defense rating or the "resilience" rating. -Why is only the epic armor getting that roughly 10% armor class boost? -I don't play a hunter, but explain the hunter changes anyway. What's up with the huge DPS boost to ranged weapons? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on November 29, 2006, 05:02:12 PM Here's some stuff I want the people here who actually care about WoW math bullshit to explain to me: -It looks like the "Rating" system for crit/defense/hit/etc is going in this patch. Explain the defense rating to me. Is that exactly the same as it was before? Do I just get more points to my defense skill? Is the skill being made less effective? Because even blue +defense gear is getting a boost from the looks of it. I understand the rest of the ratings (10 crit rating = ~1% crit for a level 60, goes down as you get to 70, and then it's like 0.6-0.7%), just not the defense rating or the "resilience" rating. -Why is only the epic armor getting that roughly 10% armor class boost? -I don't play a hunter, but explain the hunter changes anyway. What's up with the huge DPS boost to ranged weapons? Most of these things are, I think, covered in other threads on this forum already. I don't believe Defense has changed, though I might be wrong. Resilience decreases the likelyhood you will get crit, and also decreases the damage delt to you when you do get crit. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on November 29, 2006, 05:21:13 PM -It looks like the "Rating" system for crit/defense/hit/etc is going in this patch. Explain the defense rating to me. Is that exactly the same as it was before? Do I just get more points to my defense skill? Is the skill being made less effective? Because even blue +defense gear is getting a boost from the looks of it. I understand the rest of the ratings (10 crit rating = ~1% crit for a level 60, goes down as you get to 70, and then it's like 0.6-0.7%), just not the defense rating or the "resilience" rating. Blue post from a month and a half ago does a lot better job then I could... Quote from: Crezax Combat Rating System Explanation With the upcoming release of the Burning Crusade, we thought we would take the time to explain more on a new stat that we are introducing: Combat Ratings. These ratings are being used for any combat stat that previously was percentage-based such as: critical strike chance, hit chance, dodge chance and defense skill. Combat ratings are only used with effects generated by items and do not apply to effects that are generated by spells and talents which will continue to work the same. The following combat ratings are currently in use: weapon skill, defense, dodge, parry, block, hit chance, spell hit chance, critical strike chance, spell critical strike chance, resilience, haste, and spell haste. *We may introduce others at a later time. Combat Skills Unlike fixed percentages such as 2% critical strike chance, combat ratings diminish in potency as your character increases in level. 2% crit is the same at every level, while 28 critical strike rating grants 4% crit at level 34, 2% crit at level 60, and 1.27% crit at level 70. This allows us the ability to create and add new and better items to the world without eventually reaching a point where every character has a 100% chance to critically strike. Below is the level 60 conversion for combat skills: Weapon Skill Rating 2.5 rating grants 1 weapon skill Hit Rating 10 rating grants 1% hit chance Spell Hit Rating 8 rating grants 1% spell hit chance Critical Strike Rating 14 rating grants 1% critical strike chance Spell Critical Strike Rating 14 rating grants 1% spell critical strike chance Haste 10 rating 1% haste Spell Haste 10 rating grants 1% spell haste Defense Skills The impact on the defense skill and weapon skill systems is slightly more complicated. Many people do not realize these skills actually grant percentage-based benefits already. For example, every 25 points of defense skill grants a 1% dodge chance, 1% parry chance, 1% block chance, 1% increased chance to be missed and 1% decreased chance to be critically hit by physical attacks. Weapon skills have a similar effect for the attacker. Items will now grant skill rating rather than skill directly, and that will convert to an actual skill increase. Below is the level 60 conversion for defense skills: Defense Skill Rating 1.5 rating grants 1 defense skill Dodge Rating 12 rating grants 1% dodge Parry Rating 20 rating grants 1% parry Block Rating 5 rating grants 1% block chance Resilience Resilience is a special new rating which we have created to reduce the effects of critical hits against your character. It has two components; it reduces the chance you will be critically hit by X percent, and it reduces the damage dealt to you by critical hits by 2X percent. X is the percentage resilience granted by a given resilience rating. Below is the level 60 conversion for resilience: Resilience 25 rating grants 1% resilience Each time you go up a level, the amount of rating needed to get the same benefit will increase. An example of the scaling involved would be the current implementation of Agility which has always worked this way in the live game, requiring more agility for the same critical strike chance as you go up in level. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on November 30, 2006, 09:43:15 AM I'm confused about the stats changes for hunters. Actually, I barely understand how they worked before. I'm not one of those number-crunching stat people, and I don't pay a lot of attention myself to what the numbers mean until I'm forced to. Even then, I try to get someone to put it into English for me.
With the new patch, 1 agility = 1 ap. What did agility mean prior? (I knew it was good for hunters but not exactly how the numbers worked). I focused on getting agility/stam gear, mostly agility (as a marks hunter) before I went for the epics. Since the changes have been announced, I've noticed that things that were before considered "hunters' rings" are now being bid on by warriors and rogues. Why is this? I do understand about mana and arcane shot changes, but what about autoshot/general stuff? I tried to read the other threads as much as I could, but like I alluded to before, my eyes tend to glaze over when it's all number-crunching. Any light that someone could shed upon this for me would be appreciated. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on November 30, 2006, 09:50:05 AM if i remember correctly, it used to be 1 agil = 2 AP. So hunters who focused on pure Agil gear instead of the AP + agil gear are going to see their AP drop a fair bit.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Morfiend on November 30, 2006, 09:50:34 AM Whats amusing about that story, is that I am horde on Tichondrious (battle group 9), and for a while, it was almost the exact same thing, except we kept losing. Hey SurfD, my guild is thinking about transferring to Tich. Any info you could give about major guilds, and world pvp, and stuff like that. We are horde. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on November 30, 2006, 10:08:55 AM if i remember correctly, it used to be 1 agil = 2 AP. So hunters who focused on pure Agil gear instead of the AP + agil gear are going to see their AP drop a fair bit. Why are warriors and rogues now wanting +agility gear? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Threash on November 30, 2006, 10:14:55 AM if i remember correctly, it used to be 1 agil = 2 AP. So hunters who focused on pure Agil gear instead of the AP + agil gear are going to see their AP drop a fair bit. Why are warriors and rogues now wanting +agility gear? Some of the better pure agi items like the neck of nef are losing a little bit of agi for huge ap boost making them very appealing for rogues, not sure about wars. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on November 30, 2006, 11:11:05 AM Yes, it was previously 1 agility = 2 ranged attack power. This will mostly hurt hunters in unadjusted equipment - uncommons, non-set rares & epics. All the hunter-specific loot is being adjusted to a mix of +agility and +AP. There consequence of this is that most people will take a small loss on ranged attack power (due to weapons, jewelery, etc) and gain a substantial amount of melee attack power. Except for the most under-equipped hunters (not even any beaststalker gear) this will largely be offset by the increase in base ranged weapon DPS (around 30%), ammo DPS (nearly double at level 55) and available talent changes. Most hunters should get an increase in DPS at the cost of faster mana usage. At level 62 (so not for over a month) we'll get aspect of the viper, which will allow us to regain mana at speed.
Stuff that was purely agility previously and which Blizzard regarded as tailored toward hunters has been changed to agility + attack power, since that is what hunters want now. Since thats also exactly what DPS warriors and rogues want, they'll bid on these items. The changes to attack power for hunters was done to make itemization easier for Blizzard. Since we now share the same stat requirements as melee DPS folks, there will be more competition on non-class-specific loot (but probably a better selection added to the game). No doubt there will be more cries of 'rogue/warrior can use this more' from the loot retards too. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on November 30, 2006, 11:15:43 AM I was worried about Hunter DPS for a good chunk of time. Last night I finally got off my ass and hit 62 in beta.
Arcane Shot + Steady Shot + New Autoshot = wow, dead mob. I'm a happy hunter, and all the whiners are crazy, crazy mo fos. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Jayce on November 30, 2006, 11:49:30 AM Whats amusing about that story, is that I am horde on Tichondrious (battle group 9), and for a while, it was almost the exact same thing, except we kept losing. Hey SurfD, my guild is thinking about transferring to Tich. Any info you could give about major guilds, and world pvp, and stuff like that. We are horde. Geez Morph, you guys are server nomads. Unless you're not in the same guild as you were when you left Sargeras. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Morfiend on November 30, 2006, 01:41:48 PM Whats amusing about that story, is that I am horde on Tichondrious (battle group 9), and for a while, it was almost the exact same thing, except we kept losing. Hey SurfD, my guild is thinking about transferring to Tich. Any info you could give about major guilds, and world pvp, and stuff like that. We are horde. Geez Morph, you guys are server nomads. Unless you're not in the same guild as you were when you left Sargeras. Not the same guild. But its the same core players, with various friends we picked up along the way from 3 other servers. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on November 30, 2006, 06:14:48 PM Hmmm, well, lets see:
Start off with the usual forum rejoinder: Sorry, Tichondrious is not for you! Now, with that out of the way: If you are horde, how big is your guild? what is your current progression? We have a few really active horde guilds: The Core (mine): Naxx capable, and if it wasnt for holidy lull / impending patch / other stuff, we would probably be first (and likely only) horde guild to clear Naxx before BC comes out. As it stands, we are stalled (minorly, we hope) on Gothik / 4 horsemen, but thats about it. Triad: somewhat naxx capable, but mainly due to the fact that they are made up of the most active players of 3 other guilds who abandoned their guilds / friends in the name of progression to amalgamate) Not quite as far along as we are. TAO: Raid capable guild (think they have some naxx content down, but not a lot) who are mainly focused on PvP (they PvE to equipe out their PvP teams with specific pieces of better gear). A bunch of others, in various stages of BWL / AQ / Naxx. Check the Tich forums, there is a naxx progression thread which will give you a good idea of who is where. World PvP. Not much going on now, but I expect outlands is going to be knee deep in blood when the expantion hits. There are a LOT of active alliance guilds on the server, so we generally dont lack for things to do. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Simond on December 01, 2006, 08:28:53 AM Is this the 468Mb patch that's been downloading after you log out? If it is, brace yourselves for pain - even now it's only downloading at 15Kb/s. Come patch day ... Tip for anyone still waiting for the downloader: There's a file somewhere in the logs folder (I think) that gives the address which the Blizz Downloader is pointing to. Take that address and sling it into your favourite bittorrent client - just make sure that you save the file into the same place as the Blizz Downloader.Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Dren on December 01, 2006, 09:08:30 AM Is this the 468Mb patch that's been downloading after you log out? If it is, brace yourselves for pain - even now it's only downloading at 15Kb/s. Come patch day ... Tip for anyone still waiting for the downloader: There's a file somewhere in the logs folder (I think) that gives the address which the Blizz Downloader is pointing to. Take that address and sling it into your favourite bittorrent client - just make sure that you save the file into the same place as the Blizz Downloader.I'm still having trouble with it for the first time ever. I can't seem to do it from behind a firewall even though I've given the program access to all ports. I know it is supposed to be slow, but I've estimated it will take 3 weeks to download at this rate. It complains I'm behind a firewall. I suppose I'll just have to expose myself to the raw savages on the internet while I download this. Is there anyway for somebody to host this like other patches? Yeah, I know, a lot to ask for. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Zane0 on December 01, 2006, 09:50:17 AM Here's a nice site I found: http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_mirrors
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 01, 2006, 09:59:19 AM Is there anyway for somebody to host this like other patches? Yeah, I know, a lot to ask for. Attaching it here would take days. I can try. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: ClydeJr on December 01, 2006, 11:19:27 AM I pulled the patch from http://a.wirebrain.de/wow/ which I got from the WoWWiki Mirror list. It was pretty fast to download.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Dren on December 01, 2006, 12:31:47 PM Thanks, I'll try that when I get home. Have to drink first.
It's almost beer thirty! Woo Woo! Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Venkman on December 02, 2006, 07:30:06 AM Have there been any discussions about nerfing the rate at which points are accrued? I ask because I can't see them letting people climb the ranks at the same pace and therefore become fully epic-decked in the space of a month (normal people in this realm of course, the 2-3 hour a day warriors, not the nuts who play 10-16 hours a day).
Or does it not matter because the non-Arena gear is only "good" (read: not best) anyway? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 02, 2006, 08:56:41 AM They already changed the costs several times to arrive at this procurement rate.
They're specifically going to allow people who catass PvP get a full set in a month, and people who play a reasonable amount get several items to finish out their epic gear. This will help equalize people before the expansion goes in, since the PvP gear is on par with the BWL gear. People decked out in T3 with Naxx weapons and bling are sill going to be significantly more powerful at 60, but the disparity will not be as great as it would have been had a good proportion of a server gone into Outlands wearing a mix of greens and blues. Many of the early blue item dropsin the expansion are this good, but have sockets. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Venkman on December 02, 2006, 11:26:33 AM Ah thanks. I'm in mostly T1 at this point, but some of the rewards I've seen for even the Hellfire quests would be compelling upgrades (particularly if I respec again). Good to know they've already done the procurement rate adjustments. Seems reasonable.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Reg on December 03, 2006, 04:58:52 AM Hmm it sounds like I should start pvping with my crappily equipped 60 druid if I don't want to get my ass handed to me as soon as I enter the new lands. Will I still get points for bumblingly around incompetently or do I actually have to win at pvp?
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 03, 2006, 05:31:50 AM druid? Stock up on a lot of mana regen items, play AV, and just moonfire everything you see. Tab, moonfire, tab, moonfire, tab, moonfire. Probably the most efficient way to get taps on things and get a decent amount of honor. Maybe throw in a hurricane every once in a while.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Reg on December 03, 2006, 06:10:24 AM I always felt like a jerk for moonfire spamming but yea, it really was my most effective tactic. What kind of build do you think is best for PvP catassing as a Druid? Feral or moonkin? I've been restoration based up until now but with the talent points coming back on patch day I can respecialize for free.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 03, 2006, 04:08:28 PM I would only go feral if you have some decent feral gear to support it. It also depends on what BG's you like to play. Feral is better suited for small BGs (bear tank druids in heafty feral gear make incredible flag runners in WSG). OOMkin is probably better for moonfire spamming in larger BGs, where getting taps / damage on as many people as possible while staying alive is your faster road to honour.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 03, 2006, 04:32:13 PM I always felt like a jerk for moonfire spamming but yea, it really was my most effective tactic. What kind of build do you think is best for PvP catassing as a Druid? Feral or moonkin? I've been restoration based up until now but with the talent points coming back on patch day I can respecialize for free. Rejuv spamming was pretty effective for me if you stay on the Offense. But a good Feral build is helpful if you're going to try and ninja towers which is insanely effective. If you end up killing all the Lieutenants (like you should), you should get around 500 Honor a game, or about 1200-1500 Honor per Hour (2.5-3 games). Killing the Lieutenants is a lot more important then staying up in the front though.Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 05, 2006, 12:59:12 AM Just finished writing a guide to the AddOn/macro changes in this patch for my guild, hopefully the F13 crowd can find it helpful.
Quote First off... BACK UP YOUR INTERFACE AND WTF FOLDERS BEFORE YOU START PLAYING. START FRESH.
Code: /cast Ravage; Code: /cast [stealth] Ravage; Shred; Code: /cast [nostealth] Shred; Ravage;
A short, not really ordered list of what does work (with new versions):
Quote from: KarlKFI
Make sure to back-up your Interface and WTF folders and start clean before you enter the game for the first time. Rebuild a few mods at a time, if anything breaks, you'll have a decent idea of what it is and can help the author fix it. Again... BACK UP YOUR INTERFACE AND WTF FOLDERS BEFORE YOU START PLAYING. START FRESH. The formatting looks a lot nicer on phpBB then it does here... but passing out seems like a good idea at the moment. Happy Patch Day :). Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Simond on December 05, 2006, 03:04:51 AM druid? Stock up on a lot of mana regen items, play AV, and just moonfire everything you see. You spelt 'flame shock' wrong. :DCaladein, thanks for the post. And now.... Quote from: Caladein ...Auctioneer... On the one hand: AAAAUUUUGGGGHHH! On the other: The markets are going to be even more interesting now. The combination of no Auctioneer for at least a fortnight (and TBH I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get fixed before the expansion goes live), lessened consumable demand (a whole bunch of guilds on my server are planning to just up and quit raiding until mid-January due to no more decursive/CTRaid alerts + the extensive class changes in this patch), gold sellers frantically trying to offload their inventory prior to TBC (because of the significantly higher gold droprate in the expansion), people buying up twink gear for BE/draenei and renewed interest in PvP , etc etc. could make the market a little...volatile. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Fabricated on December 05, 2006, 03:41:29 AM Oh goody, I forgot about all of my mods being broken. I don't use very many but I've gotten so used to PerlFrames, Auctioneer, CTRaid, CastOptions (or whatever one it is that automatically picks the level of a buff so you don't have to open your spellbook to give buffs to lower level players, that, and Alt+Click/number = SelfCast), Alphamap, Gatherer, and Cooldown count I dunno what I'll do without them for a bit.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Reg on December 05, 2006, 03:48:37 AM Well buffs will automatically cast at the right level now so that's one mod you won't have to worry about.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Fabricated on December 05, 2006, 03:59:06 AM Well buffs will automatically cast at the right level now so that's one mod you won't have to worry about. Okay, finally. Thank god. That was such a simple fix I was wondering when Blizz would add it.Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Ironwood on December 05, 2006, 04:07:43 AM Well buffs will automatically cast at the right level now so that's one mod you won't have to worry about. Really ? Cool. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 05, 2006, 05:19:57 AM Thanks, Cal. I've stolen your post and I'm putting it on my guild's website. I'll give credit to 'someone else' but we really don't want me to link them here, I think.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Shavnir on December 05, 2006, 05:33:39 AM I think it was off of ui.worldofwar or somewhere but when I ran through my UI folder earlier today I remember finding a new Auctioneer :\
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Cadaverine on December 05, 2006, 10:51:10 AM WoWInterface had a beta version of the 2.0 compliant Auctioneer up.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 05, 2006, 12:03:00 PM PerlFrames, Auctioneer, CTRaid Forums ate my slightly longer post but... 2.0 Compliant version of Perl Classic (http://ui.worldofwar.net/ui.php?id=1465) is up, minus the Raid Frames. Also, the 2.0 Compliant Auctioneer/Informant beta (http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?s=&id=5752) you guys were talking about. I miss Enchantrix though. Finally, CTMod (http://ctmod.net)'s up for download and already getting hammered. Patch notes here (http://www.wowinterface.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7125) assuming that WoWInterface stays above water... Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Fabricated on December 05, 2006, 01:24:05 PM Cool. I'm all updated for my most preferred mods now.
Of course, I have plenty of time to get my mods in order since the predictable patch issues have put the servers out of commission for a while. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 05, 2006, 01:32:43 PM I'm still shocked that all three of the big AddOn sites are still standing (especially with Curse's new site and all) to be honest.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 05, 2006, 04:12:59 PM They're not now, and presumably won't be for most of the evening.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Cadaverine on December 05, 2006, 04:36:03 PM Curse, and WorldofWar are still working for me. WoWInterface does seem to be down, though.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Lantyssa on December 05, 2006, 05:40:20 PM WoWInterface is slow but working for me.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Paelos on December 05, 2006, 08:11:52 PM Yeah they wrecked the game for the day. Oh and the fun of the authentication issues are back again. WOOHOO!
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 05, 2006, 08:33:35 PM Starting afresh with no WTF = tiresome. I may write a sed script to copy the chat window setups from one character to another.
Quite like bartender3 as a replacement for ct_barmod, tho its annoying at first. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Fabricated on December 05, 2006, 10:01:55 PM Thoughts:
-New LFG system is actually kinda decent from what I played around with. -Goddamn it sucks having 90% of my mods broken or half functional. -New Protection talents are fucking awesome despite the sinking feeling in my stomach I got from only putting 5 points into arms. devastate is almost too good. -My 60 mage alt is now 100% frost. I shall miss clearcasting. I didn't pick up that water elemental thing though. Eh. -New stats display is great but also semi depressing since I can now see in cold hard numbers how gimpy I am. -I have a feeling that LFG interface is gonna gather dust thanks to people wanting to grind PVP to get ezpurples. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Yoshimaru on December 05, 2006, 11:13:59 PM Thoughts: -My 60 mage alt is now 100% frost. I shall miss clearcasting. I didn't pick up that water elemental thing though. Eh. You went 100% frost, but didn't get the 41 point talent? When I played with my mage on the PTR's I had a ton of fun with the Water elemental, good for snagging rogues & warriors before they hit the flag capper. Unless you mainly only PvE, not getting that is a bit rediculous. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slyfeind on December 05, 2006, 11:15:24 PM I really like the new LFG tool, but as expected, it was mere minutes before General chat turned into LFG, complete with all the spam we know and love.
Maybe the LFG tool will catch on. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: bhodi on December 05, 2006, 11:34:45 PM mutilate is "okay" - It really seems more like a backstab alternative than a real 41 point talent. It's sort of like a hard to use backstab, and it's got a increase in difficulty from BS to the increase of SS->BS -- meaning the stars basically have to line up for you to use it effectively. When you do, it can do more damage than a backstab -- sometimes. It definately needs some love for it to be viable, PvE it simply can't compare in damage and PvPers will just go down the sub tree for prep. I'm really not sure what blizz had in mind with this one.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Fabricated on December 06, 2006, 03:43:43 AM I almost miss /lfg really. It feels lonely in the less crowded zones now and it was somewhat entertaining to switch to LFG while doing boring quests or sitting around during a lull in a raid/instance watching the whole server argue and call eachother fags.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on December 06, 2006, 05:33:16 AM Hope they fix the Fubared battlegrounds servers...
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on December 06, 2006, 07:52:29 AM Starting afresh with no WTF = tiresome. I may write a sed script to copy the chat window setups from one character to another. I started fresh without a WTF file. Was so annoyed that I logged out, copied the old one back and then logged back in. Everything seemed to work at least until the server crashed. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on December 06, 2006, 07:53:57 AM I almost miss /lfg really. It feels lonely in the less crowded zones now and it was somewhat entertaining to switch to LFG while doing boring quests or sitting around during a lull in a raid/instance watching the whole server argue and call eachother fags. I've often wondered why people don't make their own channels on servers, since if you use the same name you can use the same channel. Like why don't people make a /mage channel or a /hunter channel or a /newbie channel? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Jayce on December 06, 2006, 07:57:33 AM I usually just click the "Use out-of-date addons" button and life is good until I start getting script error popups :)
I'm sad that Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 06, 2006, 08:59:06 AM Like why don't people make a /mage channel or a /hunter channel or a /newbie channel? Have you read the WoW class forums lately? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on December 06, 2006, 09:02:11 AM Like why don't people make a /mage channel or a /hunter channel or a /newbie channel? Have you read the WoW class forums lately? I try to stay away from all of the official forums, other than the occasional appearance on the server board or the professions board. Surely it's not worse than the /lfg channel.... is it? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 06, 2006, 09:06:02 AM Starting afresh with no WTF = tiresome. I may write a sed script to copy the chat window setups from one character to another. I started fresh without a WTF file. Was so annoyed that I logged out, copied the old one back and then logged back in. Everything seemed to work at least until the server crashed. The Config.wtf file, yeah, I kept that too. I just deleted the ACCOUNT NAME folder and called it a day. Thankfully, unlike Righ, I don't have any custom chat settings apart from turning off some Combat messages when I use(d) Nurfed_CombatLog (which isn't updated yet). Like why don't people make a /mage channel or a /hunter channel or a /newbie channel? Have you read the WoW class forums lately? I try to stay away from all of the official forums, other than the occasional appearance on the server board or the professions board. Surely it's not worse than the /lfg channel.... is it? Four words: Timecop cannot be killed. Seriously though, they are worse because at least in /LFG, people act as stupid as they are. On the class forums, they act like they might know something... except they don't. At all. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 06, 2006, 09:09:52 AM A selection of contemporary hunter forum threads:
Why did Bliz nerf hunters? Petition! Auto Attack/Shot .. Change it back! For you clowns that say its not a nerf OP Why we are not 'op' We are GODS!! Felgaurds: WHY Blizzard? Hunter nerf You fools bragging about your DPS Don't go survival SO ITS A NERF HUH!!!?!?!??! That was from the first page. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 06, 2006, 09:35:03 AM Damnit, thanks, Righ. Now I have to go read for comedy value.
Another guildmember and I spent almost an hour on Teamspeak last night while waiting on the servers to come up explaining to the 15-year-old hunter in my guild that, No, we're fine. It's not a nerf. There's new ammo, weapons get a boost, etc, etc, etc. I think he still wasn't convinced. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 06, 2006, 09:52:03 AM
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Zetor on December 06, 2006, 11:38:52 AM Four words: Timecop cannot be killed. You can thank my server for that ... or rather, Timecop, a dwarf shadowpriest from our local immature uberguild, famous for spamming "nO OnE cAn stOP tiMEcoP" in every channel constantly, and flopping his epeen all over the forums.Crushridge: What we lack in skill, we make up in smack-talk! Ahem... ontopic: I've been looking more and more at Ace2 mods lately to replace the old defunct ones. WitchHunt seems like a decent replacement for SpellAlert (yes, there is a built-in spellalert now, but it's only for your current target... seeing "XYZ gains Stealth" can be useful sometimes), TrinityBars is every bit as good as nurfed's bars [probably even a bit better], and ag_UnitFrames are better than Nurfed, even. I replaced old bloaty Necrosis with DoTimer and the newest incarnation of ShardTracker, etc etc. Discord/Flexbar is probably gone for good, though... dynamically modifying hotkey banks while in combat is verboten, according to Blizzard. IIRC and whatnot. -- Z. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 06, 2006, 12:04:48 PM I quite like Bartender 3, but ag_UnitFrames was a pain. The default party frame was in the same position as the default pet, and when I moved them, the frame became stuck to my pointer. No amount of clicking and button mashing would anchor the frame anywhere, and it prevented me from clicking on any buttons. I had to log out to cure it. When I logged back in, I tentatively moved the frame, and it didn't bug out. So I moved it again, and it did. Sigh. In the end I just junked the useless thing and downloaded Perl UnitFrames, which hasn't annoyed me yet.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Nebu on December 06, 2006, 12:19:23 PM I need answer to a dumb question:
True or False: You can obtain raid quality gear by doing nothing but PvP. If I can obtain top tier gear through PvP, I may have interest in this game. If I still have to grind through raid content to get items allowing me to be competitive in PvP, no chance. Thanks for the help. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Furiously on December 06, 2006, 12:29:43 PM I need answer to a dumb question: True or False: You can obtain raid quality gear by doing nothing but PvP. If I can obtain top tier gear through PvP, I may have interest in this game. If I still have to grind through raid content to get items allowing me to be competitive in PvP, no chance. True to your initial statement. But your 2nd statement about top tier... no - it's not top tier. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Nebu on December 06, 2006, 12:31:17 PM So the only way to get the best gear in the game is by enduring long pve raids?
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 06, 2006, 12:56:37 PM So the only way to get the best gear in the game is by enduring long pve raids? I'm pretty sure you'll be competitive in the top PVP gear for PVP purposes. For a while. Down the road once we're on tier 6 gear, you may start to see a divide. Skill does count for something though.. Have they shown lvl 70 PVP armor/weapons yet? But yah, the bestest of the best gear will always be only obtained from raids. I do not see this changing, ever. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Venkman on December 06, 2006, 01:04:01 PM I thought bestest raid gear was analogous to what could be bought from Arena fights at 70? wrongo?
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Threash on December 06, 2006, 01:22:57 PM I thought bestest raid gear was analogous to what could be bought from Arena fights at 70? wrongo? This is true. Arena gear will get updated every season (3 months i think) to keep up with the best raid gear, but you have to earn it again. Current pvp armor is about as good as tier 2 (theres tier 2.5 from AQ and tier 3 from naxx available), but the pvp weapons are still better than anything short of kelthuzad who hasn't even been killed in 90% of the servers. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 06, 2006, 01:26:51 PM Will they be updating the baseline PVP gear, outside of the arenas?
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Threash on December 06, 2006, 01:32:29 PM Will they be updating the baseline PVP gear, outside of the arenas? Not as far as i know, but i could be wrong. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Morfiend on December 06, 2006, 01:45:21 PM The old PVP gear is all being upgraded. Well, not the stuff that people already have. But the new honor stuff is decent. I think its all level 70 blues.
The Arena gear is Very good, and on par with the very best PVE gear. It will take much longer to get arena gear, in less you are in one of the best PVP teams. The good part is the arena ranks reset every 3 months, but you still save any arena honor points you got from the 3 month period. They also said they will upgrade the arena gear to stay current with the best PVE gear, and the 3 month resets are the perfict time to add this new gear when they need to. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Kenrick on December 06, 2006, 03:46:16 PM Heh.. I'm just trying to get my .5 set semi-complete. :-P
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 06, 2006, 05:13:14 PM I dont know if i would say the PvP weapons are better then Naxx loot. I was looking at stuff to get for my shaman for DW Enhancement build, and did a quick comparison of the High Warlord's Cleaver (1 handed axe) Vs the Bone Slicing Hatchet (1 handed axe, drops off of Noth, one of the first bosses in Naxx) Hatchet blows the Cleaver out of the water. Sure, there are probably a few warlords weapons that are top of the line in their Class (1 h sword, 1 h mace, or something) but most of them are surpassed by one piece of Naxx loot or another.
Granted, under the current system ,the Warlord's weapons are probably MUCH easier to get. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 06, 2006, 05:54:11 PM I dont know if i would say the PvP weapons are better then Naxx loot. None of them are. It's important to remember that in terms of average Item Level, the current Epic PvP set is below T2. It's only saving grace in PvP is that... it's built with PvP in mind, but piece for piece it gets blown away by anything out of AQ40 or Naxx. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Threash on December 06, 2006, 06:34:54 PM I dont know if i would say the PvP weapons are better then Naxx loot. None of them are. It's important to remember that in terms of average Item Level, the current Epic PvP set is below T2. It's only saving grace in PvP is that... it's built with PvP in mind, but piece for piece it gets blown away by anything out of AQ40 or Naxx. None? There are no upgrades at all to the sword from fankriss before kelthuzad, and the GM sword blows the fankriss one out of the water. The dagger from cthun has one single more top damage than the gm daggers but the stats are not nearly as good, neither maexnnas fang nor harbinger of doom are better than the gm daggers (i just banked my harbinger since mutilate needs 2 main hand daggers). I honestly have no idea about other classes so maybe i should have specified for rogues only GM weapons are still the top. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 06, 2006, 07:47:53 PM The battleground servers crashing constantly are getting to be a major irritant. I'm out 9 AB marks because the server died 4-5 mins from the end of a match. I'm not entirely sure I got thse honor from the kills in those matches, either. I'll never hit 23k/40 marks for my x-bow at this rate. :cry:
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 06, 2006, 08:02:06 PM I dont know if i would say the PvP weapons are better then Naxx loot. None of them are. It's important to remember that in terms of average Item Level, the current Epic PvP set is below T2. It's only saving grace in PvP is that... it's built with PvP in mind, but piece for piece it gets blown away by anything out of AQ40 or Naxx. None? There are no upgrades at all to the sword from fankriss before kelthuzad, and the GM sword blows the fankriss one out of the water. The dagger from cthun has one single more top damage than the gm daggers but the stats are not nearly as good, neither maexnnas fang nor harbinger of doom are better than the gm daggers (i just banked my harbinger since mutilate needs 2 main hand daggers). I honestly have no idea about other classes so maybe i should have specified for rogues only GM weapons are still the top. Well, Caster and Hunter weapons get outclassed by at least one thing from AQ40 and Naxx each. Hell, if you discount the decent Stamina boost on the HWL's War Staff it gets beat by a Nef drop and almost beat by an AQ20 drop. Also, the lack of an actual Feral AP weapon makes a lot of things upgrades for Druids. Still, as a Shadow Priest I'll agree with you, nothing beats the War Staff simply because it's all stats and +Dmg, nothing wasted on Crit or Hit :). Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 06, 2006, 10:57:49 PM Dual wield shaman is fun as hell. Somewhat gimped with the gear I've got (only half finished my melee set) before I stopped raiding. Seems like it could be a really good source of sustained DPS.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Venkman on December 07, 2006, 06:07:36 AM Quote from: Treash Current pvp armor is about as good as tier 2 (theres tier 2.5 from AQ and tier 3 from naxx available), Ok cool. Considering I'm still one piece shy of tier 1, I'm good with PvP weapons and armor being either analogous to or slightly better than it. I am confident I will never ever, in all my time in WoW, see Naxxramas, nor probably AQ40. I don't care enough about raiding to climb the tech tree to get there. So as long as I can PvP and continue to grow until TBC lets me play 60-70 like I did 1-60, it's all good :)Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Shavnir on December 08, 2006, 12:50:23 AM Jesus Christ I got into PvP aaaaaaaa where did my rage go to?! :(
Oh well, the warlock's more rockin than ever. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Zetor on December 08, 2006, 01:00:07 AM No kiddin'... affliction is completely insane now. A nice change, it was useless pre-patch. Instant Howl of Terror FINALLY gives a good chance against undead rogues who get the jump (unless they also have Cloak of Shadows).
I see a lot of warlocks running around with the felguard.. honestly, I think it's overrated. At 60 you can't get shadowburn with a felguard, meaning you lack reliable burst, and the guard itself is easily CCable. -- Z. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 08, 2006, 04:04:14 AM I see a lot of warlocks running around with the felguard.. honestly, I think it's overrated. At 60 you can't get shadowburn with a felguard, meaning you lack reliable burst, and the guard itself is easily CCable. First off, Intercept + Shadow Priest = dead Priest (me). Even without that, he hits like a truck. That said, I haven't been hit with UA or Shadowfury at all to remember. Dragon's Breath and Water Elementals, yes though, and both are not fun. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Shavnir on December 08, 2006, 04:22:20 AM No kiddin'... affliction is completely insane now. A nice change, it was useless pre-patch. Instant Howl of Terror FINALLY gives a good chance against undead rogues who get the jump (unless they also have Cloak of Shadows). I see a lot of warlocks running around with the felguard.. honestly, I think it's overrated. At 60 you can't get shadowburn with a felguard, meaning you lack reliable burst, and the guard itself is easily CCable. -- Z. Soul link with a pet that has a decent chance of living through the linked damage. That's why I love it. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 08, 2006, 05:02:43 AM What's really getting my goat is the Druid treant spell. Pounding away on a druid, arcane shot nicely ignoring armor, viper draining them and then *BAM* 4 level 60 mobs are beating the crap out of me.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on December 08, 2006, 05:25:37 AM What's really getting my goat is the Druid treant spell. Pounding away on a druid, arcane shot nicely ignoring armor, viper draining them and then *BAM* 4 level 60 mobs are beating the crap out of me. Feign death. :) Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on December 08, 2006, 05:28:22 AM I see a lot of warlocks running around with the felguard.. honestly, I think it's overrated. At 60 you can't get shadowburn with a felguard, meaning you lack reliable burst, and the guard itself is easily CCable. First off, Intercept + Shadow Priest = dead Priest (me). Even without that, he hits like a truck. That said, I haven't been hit with UA or Shadowfury at all to remember. Dragon's Breath and Water Elementals, yes though, and both are not fun. I have to agree, the thing I have been bitching about most since the patch is friggin Felguards. Easily CC'able? Not for me they are, especially after their super fun stun. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Zetor on December 08, 2006, 07:53:34 AM Well, I prefer the term 'duelguard' myself... yeah, it's pretty devastating 1v1, but you have to keep in mind that the FG lock has much lower dps, burst potential and utility [especially at 60]. With UA I managed to shut down a WSG heal train almost by myself, and a shadowfury lock reported that he was droppingl people faster than an arcane mage. And there are just too many ways to get rid of a felguard, even with its resistance to AOE. And after the felguard drops, the lock might as well be a 0/0/10 talent build.
Note: I am not saying felguards are weak, because they aren't. I'm just saying they don't really do more than a beastmaster hunter's pet. If the lock specs UA or shadowfury, they have a lot more to offer to a group... imo anyway. :P Edit: Also, there's a bug currently that allows locks to retain their felguard even after they spec out of demonology, as long as they don't take a flight path or have their pets die in the world [ie. not inside BGs]. So you might in fact be fighting people who're a different spec but are abusing the bug to have a felguard too! -- Z. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Fabricated on December 08, 2006, 08:30:52 AM I haven't been pvping at all with my mage or warrior mains but I'll say this:
-That talent before the 41 point talent in the Frost tree that raises +dmg contribution and crit is fucking awesome. With that and the new rank of Frostbolt I now bolt for 730 on average and crit into 1400-1500. -Devastate is fucking awesome and is probably gonna get nerfed. A guy in my Cisco class is in a Naxx guild and he said when it was on the test servers there were Protection spec warriors near the top of the DPS list. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Paelos on December 08, 2006, 09:06:21 AM Devestate will get nerfed. They'll add a cooldown to it similar to MS, and probably up the rage cost. As it is right now, it's the same rage cost at a heroic strike and it's spammable when you're fighting major mobs, gaining rage like mad. I'm hitting for about 250-300 per shot, 6-7 time per 10 seconds. That's 9000-12000 damage a minute on one single ability for a protection warrior. That's not counting auto-attacks, other hits like shield slams, etc.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on December 08, 2006, 12:28:04 PM Well I am in the belief that Prot specced warriors should be VERY good at holding aggro with a 41 point talent, since they are sacrificing their MS / fury stuff.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on December 08, 2006, 12:56:38 PM And the crying has started. I logged on to hear some of my guildies complaining that the game is now ruined, since anyone can grind for a GM weapon in the bgs. "What's the point of playing now? Everybody can get the same gear."
Haha. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Paelos on December 08, 2006, 01:19:30 PM And the crying has started. I logged on to hear some of my guildies complaining that the game is now ruined, since anyone can grind for a GM weapon in the bgs. "What's the point of playing now? Everybody can get the same gear." Haha. Now we'll polish our armor with THEIR tears. Full circle, bitches! Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Shavnir on December 08, 2006, 01:21:27 PM One of my guildmates managed to grind a HWL one hander in two days.
To quote him "honk honk". Gooses was always an odd one. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 08, 2006, 01:34:06 PM One of my guildmates managed to grind a HWL one hander in two days. To quote him "honk honk". Gooses was always an odd one. I've only PvP'd about 6 hours in total since Tuesday, and I'm 1/2 way to my Grand Marshall x-bow (or gun..) and Alliance loses AB a hell of a lot. It's damned easy to get these. I'm pleased. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Paelos on December 08, 2006, 04:53:35 PM One of my guildmates managed to grind a HWL one hander in two days. To quote him "honk honk". Gooses was always an odd one. I've only PvP'd about 6 hours in total since Tuesday, and I'm 1/2 way to my Grand Marshall x-bow (or gun..) and Alliance loses AB a hell of a lot. It's damned easy to get these. I'm pleased. I'm on the opposite side of the fence, queuing up in AV because the Horde have a pathetic record there in my battlegroup. It's an easy 500 honor in the matter of 20 minutes plus 3x those lovely badges. AB is a freaking joke, I put together a 10 man group out of my raiding alliance last night, and we won 2 out of 5 battles. The three we lost were to AQ geared 12-15 man horde teams, and the two we won were Pugs. Considering the stats, when i was running with pugs solo in AB, I won 1 out of 10, and that was because I happened to get in a group that was a 10 man team. In short, to the organized in AB goes the victory. In organized vs. organized it becomes infinitely more complex. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 08, 2006, 05:17:00 PM I play Alliance. That was my point, it's so damn easy, even on the losing side. :-D
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 08, 2006, 06:50:25 PM I play Alliance. That was my point, it's so damn easy, even on the losing side. :-D AV's even easier if you try and kill all the Lieutenants (on Horde I kite them to SH, I imagine you could do the same to IB or even SF). Even if you lose, you still get within a hundred points or so of the "winning" team. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 08, 2006, 07:15:45 PM One of my guildmates managed to grind a HWL one hander in two days. To quote him "honk honk". Gooses was always an odd one. I've only PvP'd about 6 hours in total since Tuesday, and I'm 1/2 way to my Grand Marshall x-bow (or gun..) and Alliance loses AB a hell of a lot. It's damned easy to get these. I'm pleased. Better than my battlegroup Horde side. In 6 ABs we won none, and only 2 of them were competitive (4 were 5 cap wins), probably due to the fact that every match was against a premade. ABs are just brutal in a PUG, but at least they're mercifully quick. AV is really going to be the only place I'm going to be able to get honor. Which is fine, I'd rather just spend 2 nights to get my AB medals and then the rest of the time playing the battleground that I actually like. I'm finding out that the dual wield shammy is pretty low on the totem pole for survivability unless I respec with some resto to get the healing interupt talent (my gear is not quite there). My friend that was big into Dark Age is practically bursting a vessel in his forehead over WoW pvp. He doesn't understand why he gets destroyed when his gear is all sub tier 1 (hell, it's sub Dire Maul), he has no experience playing WoW bgs (when you start out, you really aren't good), is playing strictly in PUGs v premades, and is playing a spec that has absolutely no survivability and is only effective with good gear (he's got no melee gear but went dual wield :roll: ). Heh, with as bad as a battle group as ours is and not being in a guild/premade, my major choke points for this gear will be AV marks and honor. Maybe it's time to go searching for a real guild again (not for raiding). Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 09, 2006, 01:29:33 AM Rumor from someone in my guild who knows someone who kows a dev (or something like that) has it that Honour prices of stuff are going up on tuesday (way too cheap as it stands).
I mean, i did AB for about 4 hours with guild today, and i can almost afford a Warlord 1 hander. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 09, 2006, 11:26:36 AM I play on Earthen Ring, an RP PvE server, Horde side. The population imbalance is extreme, and Horde is severely underpopulated, bringing with it a whole bunch of problems, both PvP and PvE. I'm in one of two Horde guilds regularly doing Naxx, but we're only six bosses in, and most of or guild is in T2 and even T1 gear. So our gear is well above par for our server & faction, but nothing special in the grand scheme of the battle group. Being dirty arrpees on a care bear server, we should rightly suck at battlegrounds, especially against hardcore PvP kids in grand marshal or T3 gear. We played 18 games of AB as a guild group last night. Some of our opponents were random PUGs, some pre-made. A few were considerably better geared than us. We won all 18 games, five-capping several. I'm pretty chuffed. That was my second night of the new honor system. The previous night I earned 8000 points. Made 9000 last night, so well on my way to my first of two high warlord axes (22.5k each).
I'm lucky enough to have a crossbow of smiting so I wouldn't consider the PvP one. However, I don't feel that 2.9s is sufficiently slow for a crossbow in any case. Beats the girly hunter quest bow though. If I keep doing enough PvP to get the honor for non-essentials, I'm interested in the 1.8s bow. With quiver haste, that brings it down to a speed highly effective for an arcane/steady rotation in TBC. In any case that will have to wait - I'm now quite interested in getting a set of the PvP armor (95k) too - I fought an alliance hunter in the stuff, and although he hit for around the same damage as I did, he had a good deal more health. My guild mates scoffed at the idea of a hunter needing health, and said that I wasn't doing things right if I was getting hit. They may be quite good at it, but I don't think they've quite fathomed all the subtleties of PvP yet, bless them. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 09, 2006, 12:18:57 PM Heh, I did about 6 ABs and 3 AVs last night and walked away with only around 2.5k honor. All PUGs though. People in decent guilds or premades aren't going to have much trouble getting this stuff, PUGers will.
Still, I don't think the costs are too high. I'll have that high warlord axe or claw within a week easy. Then I can use my AV medals and some more honor to upgrade to some decent gloves. I'm starting to figure out how to play the DW shammie effectively and am doing a lot better (I'm surprisingly effective against warriors). I still suck righteously at this PVP. It's funny though, I've had someone commenting on me healing every AV bg I've played. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 09, 2006, 01:19:52 PM I'm lucky enough to have a crossbow of smiting so I wouldn't consider the PvP one. However, I don't feel that 2.9s is sufficiently slow for a crossbow in any case. Beats the girly hunter quest bow though. If I keep doing enough PvP to get the honor for non-essentials, I'm interested in the 1.8s bow. With quiver haste, that brings it down to a speed highly effective for an arcane/steady rotation in TBC. Lucky bastard on the x-bow. We've yet to see one, and I'm 3 hunters back in DKP since I picked-up my DS legs last week. I'm going straight for the ranged GM weaps, given that an upgrade is an upgrade and the likelihood of Chromag dropping 3 bows in the next 4 weeks is about nil. Interesting point on the GM longbow, though. I initially discarded the idea of aquiring it due to being just so damn fast. You'd blow through arrows like mages do water with one of those. Also, I'm not sure I agree on the 'not sufficently slow enough' criticism for the other two. It's all about RAP and DPS of the weapon now that Aimed/ Multi rotations are out the window. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 09, 2006, 02:14:36 PM I'm starting to figure out how to play the DW shammie effectively and am doing a lot better (I'm surprisingly effective against warriors). I still suck righteously at this PVP. It's funny though, I've had someone commenting on me healing every AV bg I've played. How are you likeing the DW shammy? I was going to go DW, and then found out that blizzard hotifxed one of the weapons i was going to offhand into a Main hand only weapon (fuckers). So right now I am Earthshield spec, and grinding my way to 2 HW Cleavers. Full resto ROCKS by the way. Rogues Paladins and warriors (other then MS) are just screwed, hunters also, but to a lesser extent. It is AMAZING how long i can last even with 3 or 4 mele types pounding on me. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 09, 2006, 04:48:47 PM I'm starting to figure out how to play the DW shammie effectively and am doing a lot better (I'm surprisingly effective against warriors). I still suck righteously at this PVP. It's funny though, I've had someone commenting on me healing every AV bg I've played. How are you likeing the DW shammy? I was going to go DW, and then found out that blizzard hotifxed one of the weapons i was going to offhand into a Main hand only weapon (fuckers). So right now I am Earthshield spec, and grinding my way to 2 HW Cleavers. Full resto ROCKS by the way. Rogues Paladins and warriors (other then MS) are just screwed, hunters also, but to a lesser extent. It is AMAZING how long i can last even with 3 or 4 mele types pounding on me. It's OK, it's suboptimal with the gear I'm trying to use it with. Aurastone hammer + gutgore ripper isn't the world's best combination. I'm sitting at 440 AP and 19% crit; ideally you'd want 600-700 AP with about 20-25% crit. None of my gear is enchanted. With agil enchants I could probably add at least another 3% to crit and boost my survivability some. I've somewhat neglected this character since I stopped raiding; I really wish I would have at least ganked a Therazine's Link before I left. You function somewhat like a shock troop. There were a couple times today in AV where I was on defense and the alliance was working on getting to drek where I just ran in and wiped out the main tank before someone could react. You can lay down some serious hurt if you close range on someone and when the windfury procs start going you just melt people. Frost shock + storm strike + earth shock = pain. The DPS is also a lot more steady than going the 2handed route. The problem is you give up a lot of survivability. No more are they days solo defending farm against 3 people :-D Resto gives you a better shot against rogues and hunters and other DPS heavy classes (god warlocks are mean now). I'm still learning it though and most of the rogues that are owning me seem to be wearing full tier 2 or better. If you go for a PVP spec you can leave out the 40 point talent. It's useful for PVE, but near useless in PVP. I like it despite the change from being durable to being somewhat squishy; it's the way I've always wanted to play my shaman. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Shavnir on December 09, 2006, 09:36:19 PM I've heard that if you put an earth shield on someone and they zone it lets you put another earth shield down. I had an Elitist Jerks shaman (mostly teir 3 for reference's sake) put one on my warlock and I was able to survive dotting up a large group of people and running to hide several times. That thing popping a heal on you for 600 outa nowhere is delicous.
Other shamans in my guild mentioned they'd put on their healing gear, pop a ZHC and cast earth shield on themselves, then change into Enhancement gear. :) Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 09, 2006, 10:32:07 PM There is currently a bug with the way Earthshield works.
Only 1 ES per shaman is supposed to be active at a given time. If I ES someone, and I have ES on, Mine gets removed. If I ES player A, and Player B previously had my ES, Player Bs ES gets removed. However, There apperes to be some kind of range or location check going on when i cast it, and it only checks for duplicate ES's when cast. Ie: If I cast ES on a player, and they change zones (zep / boat to other continent, zone into instance) there is no longer an active ES with my ID on it in the zone, so I can cast ES on another player, and the first player's ES stays, casue they are in a different zone. Essentially, 1 shaman could ES an ENTIRE raid 1 by 1 as they zoned into an instance, then ES themself and zone in, and all 40 players would have an ES on them. The only thing i havent managed to test yet is if I ES 5 people, zone in with them, and THEN ES myeslf, will it remove all 5 es's off the other people. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Jayce on December 11, 2006, 08:53:30 AM This appears to make me a noob... and maybe I missed a patch note.. but I noticed a distinct lack of AV battlemasters this weekend.
What's the story? I asked in chat a few times over the weekend and no one seemed to want to field the question. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 11, 2006, 09:42:57 AM They were up on my BG cluster all weekend. (When the BGs themselves weren't crashing, that is.) Perhaps the AV servers bugged out on yours and Bliz couldn't get them rebooted?
Also - I suspect that honor-gains have been somehow quietly nerfed, or there was a huge bug after the patch. I PvP'd for ~3 hours on Wednesday (AV only w/ a 20-30 min queue) and came out with 4k honor and 6 tokens. Being that it was Wednesday, there was no honor-bonus so this seemed a phenominal gain. "I'll have those GM weapons I want in no time!" I catassed BGs Saturday and Sunday for 6 hours each day, doing a combo of AV and AB. I won about 6-8 ABs (yay getting dropped in the last slots of a premade) and all but 2 AVs, and still only earned about 5k each day. Considering I now have 70AB tokens and 15AV tokens, that's very disproportionate to Wednesday's gain. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 11, 2006, 10:15:46 AM 2.5K per day for me over 3 days. Each day was within a few hundred of each other. Tried to balance out the AV/AB and ended up with around 27 AV tokens and 24 or so AB tokens. I think it was about 3 hours per day. Not bad.
Had an insane-o AV match last night (probably cost me a few hundred or so honor by staying). The alliance was on Drek and we hadn't even gotten to Stormpike graveyard yet. We weren't even trying and really just got the graveyard by 7 of us deciding to finally just ninja drop and capture it. The rest of the morons were still trying to "cap the road". Then we half ass it and manage to destroy both bunkers all the time fighting on the bridge like a bunch of idiots. We hear the defense managed to wipe the Alliance team. So we end up taking the aide station. Then we hear that the marshalls respawned on the alliance team and they wiped again, and we begin pulling marshalls and then procede to take down Van before they get Drek down. They must have been on Drek for 20 minutes and we had all but given up. One of those matches you'll remember for a lot longer than a 5 cap AB :) Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 11, 2006, 10:19:41 AM You get a lot more honor for objectives than for kills. Wins are only part of the objective - killing named NPCs in AV, captures and defenses of a flag, number of nodes controlled at the end of a battle, these all play a part. It may be called 'bonus honor', but its where you can make the greatest gains. Winning AB after capturing five nodes nets much more honor than winning with four nodes. In AV, I try and kite NPCs across the bridge from the alliance base one at a time. Even if nobody really helps (zerg the aid station, lol), I can kill them with the help of our guards if we've captured the Stormpike graveyard. The beefy ones are 20 honor each. Your honor rate is ludicrously low, even on an AB weeked, if you lose, or win matches in AB slowly at 3-2. I don't know about WSG. Haven't had the heart to play it yet. Last time I did, before battlegrounds, it was an epic alliance multi-paladin graveyard turtling clusterfuck that ran for hours each game.
I was having terrible lag in BGs most of the weekend, made worse by the fact that only certain servers were lagging. Quite discouraging to have instant shots take 10 seconds to cast while melee characters zip around you, wailing on you in stop-frame speed. Our server crashed three times on Friday night, twice on Saturday night and four times on Sunday night - thats on top of the battleground server crashes. Earthen Ring is currently about as stable as a Shadowbane server. As a result, it was impossible to achieve the honor targets I had in mind. I did finally manage to get my first axe this morning, however. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Morat20 on December 11, 2006, 11:01:27 AM I finally -- took the last three months off, more or less -- logged back in with my Hunter. Respecced as BM, and tried out PvP. It took a little getting used to -- no aimed, no scatter, etc -- but I like the changes. TBW is really screwing rogues -- either none of those who tried could stunlock effectively, but I managed to trigger Bestial Wrath everytime some rogue tried to make me his bitch.
That broke the stuns and I proceeded to eat him alive. (Between me and the pet). Then again, if BW wasn't up and the rogue found me first, I was dead -- pet or no pet. The new shot is nice -- all hail 22dps shot. :) I did a bunch of ABs and AVs -- usual pattern for my server, in that at least half the AB matches were against premades and we got rolled. The AVs were steady wins -- although we had one godawful match where it started lagging out as the Alliance was working on Drek. I was playing D, and the Horde were trying to take our towers at that point. 10 second lag sucks -- must have really pissed the horde off, because it's probably easier to hit an NPC than to PvP in that sort of lag. I don't know how much honor I got -- my honor plugins are all kaput, and I haven't bothered to find a new one yet. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 11, 2006, 11:39:05 AM I don't know how much honor I got -- my honor plugins are all kaput, and I haven't bothered to find a new one yet. Honor updates daily now. :-D Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: pxib on December 11, 2006, 11:45:28 AM Quote You get a lot more honor for objectives than for kills. I don't think you do anymore. Check the numbers. They have raised how much kills are worth and lowered how much objectives are worth relative to one another. Diminishing returns no longer reach zero... you continue to get an assigned minimum from every kill no matter how many times you've ganked that player before.Admittedly this doesn't matter much in AV where the Alliance can win in less than fifteen minutes, or AB where a solid team can win in less than four, but in a WSG that bogs down for half an hour to an hour, kills will be by far the majority of the honor received. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Threash on December 11, 2006, 11:47:13 AM Is honor for kills still determined by rank? i don't know how i feel about being worth a lot more honor forevah! just because i got grand marshal a year and a half ago. I still see the rank pop up when someone gets killed though so i assume thats the case.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Righ on December 11, 2006, 05:19:04 PM Quote You get a lot more honor for objectives than for kills. I don't think you do anymore. Check the numbers. That's what I was doing. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 11, 2006, 05:22:15 PM im not sure what the exact math is, but if you can get into a good team, rolling AB is MUCH faster honor then nearly anything else.
Assuming you can 5 cap them you get roughly 250 honour for winning the game (i think each side gains honor based on how much total resources you can gather, and how many resource points you controll at the end of the game). From what i can tell, you get VERY little honor per individual player kill comparative to what you used to get. Something in the neibourhood of 10 honour for a player who used to be rank 14. Even that might be high. 3-5 honour is probably the norm for a first time kill on a given player. And i think diminishing returns DO still count, so killing someone 3 or 4 times in a game will probably result in you hitting 1 honour per kill fairly rapidly. I managed to get into our guild AB group for about 6 hours yesterday. At any given time 1/2 of the group was Mains (naxx/bwl type gear), the other half Alts (MC/AQ20/ZG) and the occasional random pug if we had someone rotate out and couldnt find a replacement. Any pug group was usually a total stomp (5 cap, game over in 2 minutes), occasionaly we would get another organised team (4 or 3 cap and hold for win), and very rarely a good organised team (we had a very close fight with one Blackrock team that ended with us winning by about 200 resources after tradeing taps on damn near every point on the map multiple times) In the end, i made roughly 10k honor in that 6 hour period, and ended up with 2 pages of AB tokens that are going to rot in my mail cause i dont have enough honor to go with them to spend on anything. AB can be a REDICULOUS source of fast honour if you can 5 cap. A 5 cap wins in under a minute once you cap the 5th pt. 4 caps in under 6 i think. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 11, 2006, 09:23:46 PM My character died while in AV. It was so laggy and broken players had to run by to the spirit healers to rez. Finally I got sick of it and tried to /AFK out as a ghost. DO NOT DO THIS. I was still a ghost but with the deserter debuff. I could still see action happening but all of the spirit healers had disappeared.
I was unable to logout. When I tried to talk in guild chat after logging out, it said I was not in a guild. I couldn't /quit out. I had to close the app from the task menu. Now I cannot get to any of my Shadowsong characters. It just gets stuck at retrieving character list. :cry: Edit: Seems like this might be a pervasive issue across all realms for me. Possible just WoW grinding to a halt under the strain of all of this pvping. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Kenrick on December 12, 2006, 12:17:27 AM Yeah, the servers all collectively farted tonight just before midnight. Weird stuff was going on everywhere.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 12, 2006, 04:16:14 AM Edit: Seems like this might be a pervasive issue across all realms for me. Possible just WoW grinding to a halt under the strain of all of this pvping. Yeah, it had nothing to do with /afk-ing out while ghosting. The PvP and normal servers are simply fucked up. Friday, Saturdy and Sunday night there were not only BG problems like what you just mentioned, but normal realms were crashing like they ran Windows 95. I had similar problems on Thursday & Friday in battlegrounds. Friday the realm crashed at 7 and didn't come back until about 9. Saturday the same thing with the prime time crash, and then our Sunday night MC run was hosed after Shazz because any action that created loot, or moved loot caused that person to lock-up. Prople more knowledgable about this stuff in my guild all think it's a DB issue. The 2.0 patch changed a lot of things and it looks like the game's db is misconfigured, or somesuch. Hopefuly they'll be able to fix part of it on their end in today's downtime. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Lantyssa on December 12, 2006, 09:19:53 AM Yeah. All of Kirin Tor was acting strangely last night. I still had access to channels, and could "move" but NPCs were not responding and some of us could not log out. I had to force it to log by unplugging my network cable. It entered this state in the middle of receiving my quest reward, so gods know what will happen there.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Morat20 on December 12, 2006, 09:59:33 AM I had to expressly kill the client last night. I was "Stuck" in AB. Couldn't do squat. Couldn't HS, auto-unstick didn't work, couldn't recieve chat -- tried to log back in and was stuck at "retrieving character".
Figured the server died. I did learn that a BM specced Hunter can eat a warrior alive, one-on-one. At least stupid ones. I was guarding the mill flag by my lonesome, and got attacked by a single warrior something like four times. Three of them by the same guy. You really can't ignore my pet now. I had a ball in AV -- when it wasn't lagged out. At one point, I was standing on the Stormpike road, holding six Horde at bay. (Admittedly, I had two priests peaking around the corner healing me and my pet). And the Horde were stupid. Yes, let's fight the Hunter at range. Don't close, or god forbid attack the priests healing him. And let his pet rampage on your clothies more or less at will. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on December 12, 2006, 10:52:20 AM Honor nerfed by 30%
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=55975614&sid=1&pageNo=1 Now that the Before the Storm content patch has been live for the past week, we’ve had a better opportunity to track the rate at which players are accumulating honor, and subsequently how easy it's been to obtain honor rewards. In gauging these elements, we've determined that the effort required to obtain honor rewards is more trivial than we had intended. As a result, during today's maintenance we’ve applied a hotfix that reduced the amount of honor gained by approximately 30%. This change allows the honor rewards to be obtained at rate that better reflects the item’s in-game value. The reason that we decided to reduce the rate of honor gain rather than simply raise the honor cost of each item, is to ensure that everyone’s time and effort participating in PvP since the patch is not diminished. As this change will only affect future honor accumulation. Good thing i only needed a piece or two.... Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 12, 2006, 11:12:33 AM That's kind of assy. Sure people playing in guild premades on an AB weekend are going to rake in the honor. Doesn't mean the rest of us are so lucky.
:| Edit: I guess I'll just go back to leveling my druid with the occasional BG thrown in on my shaman. My honor gains from now on are just going to feel like futility. Goddamn it. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: AcidCat on December 12, 2006, 11:15:36 AM Poopsocker shitheads who play 24/7 screw it for the rest of us. Thanks for the love Blizzard. The fucktards already got their "trivial" rewards this week anyway, so let's screw the people that play for reasonable amounts of time because they have a life outside the game.
I have never gone all emo about WoW in two years of playing but this shit pisses me off. I was looking forward to getting my Druid and Priest into some pretty good gear - not full sets, but enough to really improve over the auction house blues I've got since I don't raid. And I'm already playing as much as I can without pissing off my wife and ignoring my kids. The poopsockers already had epics from their raiding anyway, the people this hits hardest are like me, in shit gear. Blizz gave me a system where I could upgrade it in a reasonable amount of time and then turned around and shit in my face. Ah, I had to get that out. /emo Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: tazelbain on December 12, 2006, 11:36:35 AM Wow, you guys are spoiled as fuck.
PvP Rewards: Impossible -> Possible -> Possible - 30% ...and now you start pissing and moaning? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: AcidCat on December 12, 2006, 11:42:28 AM It's all in your perspective I guess. Say you win $ 1000 bucks at a casino. Then before you leave, they say sorry, too many folks have won tonight, we'll have to reduce your winnings by 30%. I'd guess that telling you "you shouldn't have had that money anyway, be happy with what you have" would make you feel just fine about it?
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Dren on December 12, 2006, 12:00:43 PM Considering I didn't even have a chance to try the new changes yet due to my casual schedule, yeah, that sucks.
They must have underestimated the number of poopsockers that would poopsock even though they already had their poopsock awards. They've gotta catch em all you know. I'm tired of those guys forcing changes like this. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on December 12, 2006, 12:55:42 PM I bet the shit is flying on the official forums today. If Blizzard thought people were pissed off by the BG changes with the patch, I imagine there's a lot more people mad now.
Of course, it doesn't help that mere days ago Drysc (blue poster) said this in response to people wondering if the prices would go up: Quote Q u o t e: More than likely the prices will be adjusted for the current honor rewards sometime after the expansion releases to reflect their 'value' more appropriately when compared to expansion items. That would mean the prices would be going down though, not up. I don't care much about changes, but I care greatly about the CMs fibbing to the players. Way to fuck up, Blizzard. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Nebu on December 12, 2006, 01:04:45 PM If the PvP is a fun activity in and of itself, who cares if you get 30% fewer points? It's the pvp that's supposed to be fun... not the getting of teh shiny.
The people pissed off by this are apparently getting their fun more from accumulation of "teh shiny" than the gameplay itself. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on December 12, 2006, 01:21:38 PM More funny. Blizzard's account manager site is down, so people who want to cancel can't.
I've never seen the Blizzard forums so full of h8. Starting to look like the Vault/DAOC boards after ToA. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: AcidCat on December 12, 2006, 01:41:18 PM The people pissed off by this are apparently getting their fun more from accumulation of "teh shiny" than the gameplay itself. Whether you happen to agree or not, getting "the shiny" is an intrinsic part of the fun for most folks that play this game. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 12, 2006, 01:42:47 PM If the PvP is a fun activity in and of itself, who cares if you get 30% fewer points? It's the pvp that's supposed to be fun... not the getting of teh shiny. The people pissed off by this are apparently getting their fun more from accumulation of "teh shiny" than the gameplay itself. Can't it be both though? I like WoW's PVP for what it is. Fun, quick, and reasonably balanced. The problem though is that due to my equipment not being on par with AQ40/Naxx/BWL (for my spec) is that I tend to get the short end of the stick in encounters. The short end stunning me repeatedly and bashing my head to a gooey pulp. The only reason I would want this gear is to be better at the PVP and have a more equal shot at a lot of the encounters (well, I like the way some of it looks too, my current gear is fugly). I would like this gear improvement to happen at a reasonable pace for the amount of playtime I'm able to dedicate to the game. At the old rate I figure I could get about 1k honor per hour and pulled in 7.5k over a 3 day period. A high warlord weapon is 22.5k honor. That's 9 days worth of my playtime doing nothing but BGs. With the 30% decrease in honor it's now closer to 13 days. We've got a month or so before the expansion hits, when all of this gear becomes nearly invalid overnight. I was hoping to get a few pieces and see what I'd be like with that extra AP and a decent weapon for my melee build. Now I just feel like getting my druid to 60. This change makes somethat that was at first accessible and attractive for some immediate gear just merely accessible. I'll be setting my goals lower, perhaps I'll just get a Don Julio's band and some gloves. Maybe get that one ring from WSG too. I'll still be doing the BGs but I won't really do them with the intent of getting anything tangible in a reasonable time frame. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Valmorian on December 12, 2006, 01:46:49 PM I'll still be doing the BGs but I won't really do them with the intent of getting anything tangible in a reasonable time frame. +33% more time is unreasonable? Really? If they tripled or quadrupled the amount of time, I could see that being unreasonable, but seriously.. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 12, 2006, 01:49:01 PM We're speaking in days, not hours. It's not like this crap was given out with your tokens at the end of the game.
Edit: I wonder how hard people would bitch if they said we're removing a loot spot off <insert raid mob here>. Hey, 33% less loot, that's not unreasonable now is it? 30% isn't trivial, damnit. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Paelos on December 12, 2006, 01:53:44 PM Nerfing honor is stupid. I'd much rather they up the token quotas on things than increase/decrease honor points. It would actually promote winning instead of what's going to happen now, which will be absolutely nothing but kill farming for points. That's the aspect of bgs I absolutely can't stand.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Valmorian on December 12, 2006, 01:54:44 PM We're speaking in days, not hours. It's not like this crap was given out with your tokens at the end of the game. Edit: I wonder how hard people would bitch if they said we're removing a loot spot off <insert raid mob here>. Hey, 33% less loot, that's not unreasonable now is it? 30% isn't trivial, damnit. Perhaps not TRIVIAL, but certainly not unreasonable, hm? I mean, if you can afford to spend 10 days getting something, is 13 REALLY that much more? I mean, sure it's annoying for casual players, but I certainly wouldn't put it into the category of unreasonable. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Morat20 on December 12, 2006, 01:59:43 PM From what I can tell, the HWL stuff is good to about 65 or 66, when it starts getting replaced with quest and dungeon blues. That's not a bad investment, especially since you can only carry about 90k honor around anyways. I was looking forward to replacing my weapons with HWL ones (axe and sword, probably -- no real difference, but I can train up two skills -- as well as the gun. SCREW BOWS!) and replacing my shoulders, breastplate, leggings and bracers (I'm missing the GS pieces for those -- and I won't really be making MC raids until after the expansion).
What was happening was premades were steamrolling through PuGs in AB and WSG, or queue jumping to PuGS if they faced another premade and raking in honor. Of course, they were mostly people in high-end gear already who didn't need or even want PvP gear. So they shafted all the casuals. I think four or five days for a casual to PvP grind out (and that's still five or six hours a day of PvP) a single top-end PvP piece is about right. It feels fast because the current top-end BG gear is better (comparatively) than what the top-end BG gear will be in TBC. Blizzard should have just sucked up and waited. The worst that could happen is a lot of casuals would enter TBC better geared than they would have otherwise -- they'd still rapidly shed their gear for socket stuff anyways. By the time everyone was hitting the mid-60s, it all would have evened out without any real damage. I suspect the biggest whiners were the catass raiders suddenly upset that their gear wasn't a WTFPWN advantage anymore, with casuals starting to get something that let them survive, and Rank 14s prior to the honor change. I've got a bit of sympathy for the latter, but not much. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Nebu on December 12, 2006, 02:12:45 PM If the PvP is a fun activity in and of itself, who cares if you get 30% fewer points? It's the pvp that's supposed to be fun... not the getting of teh shiny. Can't it be both though? The people pissed off by this are apparently getting their fun more from accumulation of "teh shiny" than the gameplay itself. Of course it can. I'm just finding it interesting that people would be so up in arms about an activity they'd likely do for the fun anyway. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Chenghiz on December 12, 2006, 02:18:55 PM I got two pieces of PVP gear that I had been (unsuccessfully) trying to rank up for before. It'll be a while before I get my shiney HWL dagger but I'm happy with the cool-lookin' blue-quality rogue shoulders.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Xanthippe on December 12, 2006, 02:20:54 PM I find it fascinating that Blizzard would rather piss off 80% of the players than 20% of the players.
Especially since it could have been avoided, had they figured this out prior to the patch. You can't give something to people and then take it away without pissing people off. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Morat20 on December 12, 2006, 02:22:41 PM Of course it can. I'm just finding it interesting that people would be so up in arms about an activity they'd likely do for the fun anyway. There's a real linkage between "fun" and "Gear" in PvP in WoW. It's not fun being steamrolled by premades in Naxx or AQ40 gear when you're in 5-man blues. You're not even playing -- you're just a target. The honor gain before was about 20 to 30 hours of PvP per piece of HWL gear. That meant you could, with a few weeks of serious work, start being seriously competitive. Plus, with everything else on standby until TBC, it was one of the few worthwhile things to do. I'm kinda wondering if they nerfed honor to cut down on PvP, because their servers were melting.... Plus, the BG stuff was supposed to be fairly easy to get. The Arena was for catasses. Instead, the catasses fucked the casuals by doing what they always do -- blow through content too fast, thus getting the Devs to put in gates. The gates don't stop the catasses, but they're a serious hindrance to the casuals. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Nebu on December 12, 2006, 02:24:01 PM I find it fascinating that Blizzard would rather piss off 80% of the players than 20% of the players. They seem to have no problem with taking people's money while making them wait in queues to play their game. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Fabricated on December 12, 2006, 02:25:46 PM Am I weird for being happy about this? Even though I could've gotten myself some phatlewtz just as easily as everyone else I was annoyed at the prospect of going into Hellfire Peninsula with 4000 fucking douchebag clones in full GM gear loling and sharding everything until level 65.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Nebu on December 12, 2006, 02:28:48 PM There's a real linkage between "fun" and "Gear" in PvP in WoW. It's not fun being steamrolled by premades in Naxx or AQ40 gear when you're in 5-man blues. You're not even playing -- you're just a target. I understand completely. I felt this in MUD's, then UO, then EQ, etc. It's like the thrill of completing a puzzle. I just wish that someone would be better able to decouple the whole equipment-timesink from PvP in an mmog. The DAoC classic servers have done a pretty good job with this. In 16h of gameplay I was able to get a toon from 1-50 and have them equipped in gear good enough to be competitive. Yes, there is better stuff out there, but the benefits that it gives are marginal on the classic servers. WoW success always seemed so dependant on gear... it reminded me of the ToA days of DAoC. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 12, 2006, 02:37:16 PM Ok, guildmate just made me think all my math is off. Ignore me.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Morat20 on December 12, 2006, 02:40:53 PM You know what's really the pisser about the whole thing? The people earning "too much honor" and getting their gear "too fast" already fucking have it now. They earned it over the last week or so. They're already running around in full HWL (or whatever pieces they were missing), and all that's happening now is Blizzard is fucking the casuals who actually take two weeks to earn enough honor and tokens for a piece or (if they're lucky!) two of HWL gear.
Smart thinking there. Implementing diminishing returns, or some sort of honor cap to stop whatever catasses hadn't already managed to get a full set apparently didn't come up in their brainstorming session. I love solutions that fuck everyone BUT the people that are causing the actual problem. Caladein: I don't know where the fuck you're PvPing, but 12 hours of PvP got me 10k honor. Or 1/2 to a 1 handed weapon. On AB weekend, without facing too many premades that rolled my ass. I can't think of a single PuG PvPer that can make 45k honor in 8 hours. If you're premade horde rolling PuGs in AB or WSG, I can see it. But us lame PuG players? I got one AB and one AV in every hour and a half. That'd net me about 1500 honor, tops. A thousand an hour, and that's if my AB wasn't a 5-cap loss to a premade Horde team. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: tazelbain on December 12, 2006, 03:04:56 PM So they got their stuff in a week.
7/.7 = 10 So it would have taken them 3 extra days to get it if the revamped numbers were in from the beginning. Either way, they are going to get it way ahead of you because they are catasses and you not. I would have hoped most people here would have reconciled that by now. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: AcidCat on December 12, 2006, 03:10:29 PM So they got their stuff in a week. 7/.7 = 10 So it would have taken them 3 extra days to get it if the revamped numbers were in from the beginning. Either way, they are going to get it way ahead of you because they are catasses and you not. I would have hoped most people here would have reconciled that by now. The point is they are punishing the casuals for the way the catasses have abused the system that they set up to be more casual. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on December 12, 2006, 03:13:19 PM 30% slower is fine with me, I thought it was too easy by far at the moment (1k honour an hour at the worst means you get gear very quickly).
I managed to get about 20k honour in the last week, being away on holiday for 3 days and not PvPing every chance I got, so I could see how it needed to be fixed. If I wanted to I could upgrade a piece of gear to t2-t3 quality every two-three days. Quote The point is they are punishing the casuals for the way the catasses have abused the system that they set up to be more casual. No. It's directed at the casuals. People with Epic AB premades are still going to steamroll in the honour. 30% will mean jack shit to them as they will get it almost as fast as they can spend it. Blizzard was not aiming this change at them. Most of them have T3/T2.5 anyway. It was directed at us, the more casual players. Oh, and only T3 will last to level 66ish. This Warlord/GM gear will last nowhere near as long. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: AcidCat on December 12, 2006, 03:20:15 PM 1k honour an hour at the worst means you get gear very quickly). The 1k/hour figure seems about right, give or take, maybe us puggers are running more like 800/hr. But still at that rate - that's not quick when you're playing maybe 8 hours a week. At that rate I can get a new piece of epic PvP gear roughly once every two weeks. Now it will be closer to three perhaps. Not the end of the world, but they totally screwed the expectations I had based on the system they gave me, just a week later. It rubs the wrong way. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: tazelbain on December 12, 2006, 03:22:30 PM If its so slow, raid for your gear.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on December 12, 2006, 03:25:26 PM 1k honour an hour at the worst means you get gear very quickly). The 1k/hour figure seems about right, give or take, maybe us puggers are running more like 800/hr. But still at that rate - that's not quick when you're playing maybe 8 hours a week. At that rate I can get a new piece of epic PvP gear roughly once every two weeks. Now it will be closer to three perhaps. Not the end of the world, but they totally screwed the expectations I had based on the system they gave me, just a week later. It rubs the wrong way. Get the Blue PvP gear instead then. The difference is not that huge. I have Hands, Legs, Chest, Feet in Blue. Shoulders in Epic (Like everyone!) Going for head Epic now. Then I'll probably go for the weap. Then maybe a WSG ring. Then maybe the chest. The point is that getting an Epic is meant to take a bit. There has to be some kind of dely in getting items. Now they made a huge mistake by not calculating the gain speed right at the beginning, so now people expect it to be fucking easy and want to whinge. But really, if they had started it 30% slower would we be seeing any "OMG I can get an Epic in a week or two, this is too slow! I'm cancelling! Slap in the face!"? I doubt it. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 12, 2006, 03:26:03 PM If its so slow, raid for your gear. HAR HAR. Do you just not get it or do you enjoy being a troll this much? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: AcidCat on December 12, 2006, 03:29:10 PM Get the Blue PvP gear instead then. The difference is not that huge. Yeah I will probably have to scale back my expectations a bit. Not a big deal in the long run, but I don't like being teased into thinking I could get more and then having it pulled farther away. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 12, 2006, 03:32:35 PM But really, if they had started it 30% slower would we be seeing any "OMG I can get an Epic in a week or two, this is too slow! I'm cancelling! Slap in the face!"? I doubt it. Of course not. But then again, I'd have tempered my expectations and possibly not have bothered given how economical I have to be with my play time. However, people generally get annoyed with bait and switch tactics. This should be no surprise that people are pissed off especially when some Blizzard mouth piece tries to tell me that this isn't technically an increase in item honor cost. This actually might be better for my rogue now. His gear sucks bad enough that the blues will be welcome. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 12, 2006, 03:34:15 PM More rumors and speculatiuon, Though appearently there is a blue post floating around somewhere that confirms it:
The price of existing HWL / PvP gear may actually go DOWN when the expantion officially goes live. A lot of the people in my guild are just PvP ing to stock up to the max honour cap, and are going to buy all their stuff AFTER the X-pack goes live. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on December 12, 2006, 03:36:27 PM More rumors and speculatiuon, Though appearently there is a blue post floating around somewhere that confirms it: The price of existing HWL / PvP gear may actually go DOWN when the expantion officially goes live. A lot of the people in my guild are just PvP ing to stock up to the max honour cap, and are going to buy all their stuff AFTER the X-pack goes live. See earlier in this thread. That was posted BEFORE this change. And it was/is speculation, not a fact. Really a stupid thing to do on his part. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 12, 2006, 03:37:12 PM More rumors and speculatiuon, Though appearently there is a blue post floating around somewhere that confirms it: The price of existing HWL / PvP gear may actually go DOWN when the expantion officially goes live. A lot of the people in my guild are just PvP ing to stock up to the max honour cap, and are going to buy all their stuff AFTER the X-pack goes live. I thought the blue post said they'd evaluate lowering prices once the expansion is live. Nothing committal that I'd bank on it happening. Still, might be the best method. I could always level my non-PVP characters until they announce the price drop. Of course, their idea of a price drop might be giving that 30% honor gain back. :| Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Threash on December 12, 2006, 03:39:46 PM People complaining that something that its going to take them an extra 3 days to get some of the best fucking loot in the game are about as stupid as the former grand marshals complaining people where getting the same rewards in 3 days that they spent months of grueling effort getting. IT WAS TOO EASY, if you can't see that you just haven't been paying attention. Theres people in my guild with 2 gm weapons and several pieces of the epic armor already, and we basically lost 2 days of pvp last week. If you didn't expect a nerf after the you saw the prices on the stuff and played your FIRST bg i don't know what to tell you.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: tazelbain on December 12, 2006, 03:44:10 PM Oh, I get it. They are complaining about a minor nerf after a gigantic buff. It pushes my buttons. I will stop.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on December 12, 2006, 03:51:18 PM BTW:
The best way to get honour, by FAR, as a single casual player: AV. They generally last 15-20mins, and you get 300-400 bonous honour. Plus there is a lot of action. If you get into a bad AV (lasts more than 20mins) get a guildie to queue you for Arena, then leave and rejoin AV (they need to fix this, but untill they do, abuse it). Or if you have no guildies avaliable just /afk and go do Arena for 15mins, you'll save time in the end. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: caladein on December 12, 2006, 04:03:45 PM Or if you have no guildies avaliable just /afk and go do Arena for 15mins, you'll save time in the end. Or just log out for five minutes :evil:. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 12, 2006, 06:29:27 PM (they need to fix this, but untill they do, abuse it). This has been this way since multi-queues were implemented. It's working as intended. I deliberatly make sure I'm in another BG queue when one pops, just so I can hop-out without the deserter flag if people are turtling/ taking forever in WSG or AV. 1-Hour + WSGs aren't fun, nor are AV Turtles. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on December 12, 2006, 07:11:38 PM (they need to fix this, but untill they do, abuse it). This has been this way since multi-queues were implemented. It's working as intended. I deliberatly make sure I'm in another BG queue when one pops, just so I can hop-out without the deserter flag if people are turtling/ taking forever in WSG or AV. 1-Hour + WSGs aren't fun, nor are AV Turtles. Yes. But you can /afk out of Arenas w/o getting derserter flag, then get straight back in to the BG you want to do. You cannot do this currently unless you have someone sitting outside to queue. Also nifty if you want to do AV and are stuck in the middle of nowhere. Get a guildie to queue you. /afk, que yourself for AV. Couldn't do that before because you can't queue groups for AV. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Zetor on December 12, 2006, 11:15:04 PM I'm torn on this change... on one hand, I've gotten my mageblade during a weekend of semi-catassing. On the other hand, this probably means my warrior alt is never going to get that 2h GM mace.
[whine] Thing is, honor is not "easy" for everyone. On alliance side in battlegroup 2, wait times for AV are 30-35 minutes, wait times for AB are 10-20; WSG is not worth mentioning (worst honor of the 3, unless you are in a premade). In AB I face premades about half of the time, and lose most of the other battles too, leading to a ~15% win record, and even those wins are grueling 30-minute affairs. AV used to be extremely good, but nowadays horde have learned how to win and are blitzing to SP and the aid station at the start of the game while stalling the knuckleheaded alliance at galv, and we typically lose without even having IB capped. Not much one person can do to change the outcome, either. Things also change depending on class.. my warlock is probably the second best class to rake in the honor with (first one would be hunter, maybe mage) due to long range high damage instant cast DOTs, meaning I am usually reasonably safe from dying, and do a lot of damage. My warrior OTOH is puny - even in my tank gear (5.3k hp), I am mercilessly mowed down if I try to engage in any sort of fight over a node (getting healed? in a PUG? hah!), and even the damage I did before dying won't matter, since you get no honor while you're staring at the spirit healer, watching those 2 hunters finish off the mage and priest you softened up. I've also heard healers complain that trying to heal in a PUG environment gets them killed fast, resulting in 0 honor gained also. The fact that damage is insanely scaled up means that unless you're a ranged dps class, you're probably screwed. I'm seriously considering respeccing prot on my warrior and staying in defensive stance 75%, just so I can sometimes stay alive long enough to get honor. I guess the answer is "it's fine, l2premade", but most of my guild is inactive until BC, and I've heard Bad Things (as expected) about the random "premade" groups recruiting in /1. Being an European on a US server doesn't help either. Also, why is everyone so concerned about "ezmode epix" when http://www.thottbot.com/?i=38113 (which would take 2+ weeks to get under my circumstances) is not really that much better than http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=1759 (an extremely easy to craft GREEN axe)? [/whine] -- Z. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Shavnir on December 12, 2006, 11:31:10 PM We're speaking in days, not hours. It's not like this crap was given out with your tokens at the end of the game. Edit: I wonder how hard people would bitch if they said we're removing a loot spot off <insert raid mob here>. Hey, 33% less loot, that's not unreasonable now is it? 30% isn't trivial, damnit. Actually something like that did happen. Because cross-faction loot is dropping on T2 and below bosses there's a 1/9 chance that a set piece will be nothing more than nexus fodder. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 13, 2006, 01:55:13 AM We're speaking in days, not hours. It's not like this crap was given out with your tokens at the end of the game. Edit: I wonder how hard people would bitch if they said we're removing a loot spot off <insert raid mob here>. Hey, 33% less loot, that's not unreasonable now is it? 30% isn't trivial, damnit. Actually something like that did happen. Because cross-faction loot is dropping on T2 and below bosses there's a 1/9 chance that a set piece will be nothing more than nexus fodder. Indeed, first week after the patch came out, it was amusing to see all the posts pop up on the Tich forums about the "awesome" loot drops in BWL / MC. Its no longer "yay, more Felheart / Cenarian", which at least someone could potentially use, its now, "Whee, Vael just dropped double Paladin Belts". Can you imagine how pissed an Alliance raid would be if they just killed Neff, only to get double Ten Storms drops? As to the complaints about battleground queues, I really wish there was something I could say, but the only thing that comes to mind is "sucks to be alliance". I have no iidea what it is like on Alliance side, but on Battlegroup 9, horde has pretty much instantanious queues for WSG and AB all the time, and unless it is REALLY dead, AV is almost always sub 10 mintues to get a game. It almost makes me feel sorry for the alliance, almost. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on December 13, 2006, 02:14:40 AM We're speaking in days, not hours. It's not like this crap was given out with your tokens at the end of the game. Edit: I wonder how hard people would bitch if they said we're removing a loot spot off <insert raid mob here>. Hey, 33% less loot, that's not unreasonable now is it? 30% isn't trivial, damnit. Actually something like that did happen. Because cross-faction loot is dropping on T2 and below bosses there's a 1/9 chance that a set piece will be nothing more than nexus fodder. Indeed, first week after the patch came out, it was amusing to see all the posts pop up on the Tich forums about the "awesome" loot drops in BWL / MC. Its no longer "yay, more Felheart / Cenarian", which at least someone could potentially use, its now, "Whee, Vael just dropped double Paladin Belts". Can you imagine how pissed an Alliance raid would be if they just killed Neff, only to get double Ten Storms drops? As to the complaints about battleground queues, I really wish there was something I could say, but the only thing that comes to mind is "sucks to be alliance". I have no iidea what it is like on Alliance side, but on Battlegroup 9, horde has pretty much instantanious queues for WSG and AB all the time, and unless it is REALLY dead, AV is almost always sub 10 mintues to get a game. It almost makes me feel sorry for the alliance, almost. Lies. BG 9 is sub 1min for AVs too. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: SurfD on December 13, 2006, 02:46:20 AM Well, i was sort of referring to "normal" PvP operating times. With the current PvP blitz to get easy HWL gear, of course things are going to be faster then normal.
I mean, the other day, when running AB with the guild, there was pretty much never less then 150 AB games going at one time during prime time hours, and i think i hit a 200+ AB instance game that night. But yeah, right now, we have Insta queues for every BG horde side. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Zetor on December 13, 2006, 02:57:43 AM Die in a honor fire. <3
Seriously though, it's to be expected. We have WAY too many pve realms with horrible population imbalances in battlegroup 2.. I'm talking 1 horde to 3 alliance here. I'm just bitter because my server -Crushridge, PVP- is almost 1:1, but still I have to endure 30-min waits because the OTHER realms have crappy balance. /sigh -- Z. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Simond on December 13, 2006, 03:16:42 AM I wonder if many guilds will used TBC as a reason to reroll Horde?
It'll be as good as reason as any. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Merusk on December 13, 2006, 04:17:21 AM I wonder if many guilds will used TBC as a reason to reroll Horde? It'll be as good as reason as any. No. Why? Because waiting on an entire guild to go from 1-70 is vastly different from waiting on them to go from 60-70. It's a good thing the largest instance is only a 10-man, because I know the playtimes of most of my guildies. Only about 20 of us (out of ~70 'raiders') will play regularly enough to get to 70 at the same time. The rest will be a month+ behind us. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Luxor on December 13, 2006, 10:36:46 AM AV used to be extremely good, but nowadays horde have learned how to win and are blitzing to SP and the aid station at the start of the game while stalling the knuckleheaded alliance at galv, and we typically lose without even having IB capped. Not much one person can do to change the outcome, either. -- Z. It has went that way on the Euro servers too, people rushing to each others aid stations and taking them out. I had an 8 min AV last week which was insane. We've got a new tactic though, idont bother racing the other team and just kill all the commanders/lieutenants you can find. From horde side it goes :- Stonehearth bunker ( spawns commander ) + 2 lieutenenats patrolling outside, Balinda + 2 lieuts, Ice bunker commander + lieut patrolling. You get at least 20 honour for each one. Ok you lose the game and only get 1 token instead of 3 but you get double the amount of honour the winning side does, and who doesnt have AV tokens out the wazoo anyway? Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Shavnir on December 13, 2006, 10:52:40 AM With the honor nerf its 14 each. Also you get 14 honor per tower you can set on fire.
Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Dren on December 13, 2006, 01:18:37 PM If the PvP is a fun activity in and of itself, who cares if you get 30% fewer points? It's the pvp that's supposed to be fun... not the getting of teh shiny. The people pissed off by this are apparently getting their fun more from accumulation of "teh shiny" than the gameplay itself. I'm not all that pissed. I'm not in "that" game to begin with, but have visions of trying it someday. I cannot get "teh shiny" now, so it is obvious that I'm not playing the game for it. Yes 33% seems trivial if we are talking about 3 more consecutive days, but that isn't what you talking about for a casual player like myself. I do not play every day. I do not log as many hours in a day. That 3 days of *effort* for me is not 3 days. It can be 2 weeks in comparison. Seriously, I don't care. It is like this with any aspect of the game. Introduce something that may suit the casual crowd only to have the hardcore jump on it and devour it before we even have a chance. Typical reaction is to nerf. Same as it ever was. I'll continue to get what I can as I can and either enjoy it or quit. However, I don't want anyone to be fooled into thinking that these changes are directed towards anyone that is a casual player. Yes, we still have a chance, which is a step in the right direction. They've just made it that much harder for us to build up enough rep and badges to get anything decent. They've made the stick for the carrot longer so to speak. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 14, 2006, 09:51:14 AM Quote from: Some verified correct retard So, i decided to test out this honor nerf, before the patch, Lts in AV were worth 20 points, now they should be 14. So i go into an AV, hang out until first Lt is killed and i get +14 honor points. Sounds good, right? WRONG. today i have, you guessed it, 10 Honor points. Looks like the new calculation is -30% for bonus honor, then another - 30% at the end of the day.( Total nerf =-51% honor. So, it used to take X number of hours for items, now it takes 2.04 times X amount of hours.. L2Math Blizzard! Quote from: Blue Name Due to a question in another thread about us responding to Honor threads, I posted the following- I don't have anything to add to the Honor Reduction posts at this point in time. I could say "We're looking into that" but even if I say that, people will expect me to come back with information I can share and if I can't share more information they will be disappointed. We're between a rock and a hard place but we ARE doing what we can on our end. I hope that helps a little though I know there will be some that are ok with that message and others that want to know more. I don't have more for you right now and I can't tell you when I would have more for you. I thought my honor gains were rather low (4 AVs last night, around 850 honor). So yah, it's a 51% decrease currently in honor right now (30% while you earn, another 30% taken when they calculate). Back to leveling the druid. Man, they just can't get anything right recently. I hope this doesn't stick around for the holiday. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Cadaverine on December 14, 2006, 10:34:46 AM I thought the usual path was to make things easier after all the catasses had their gear, not harder.
'Splains why my honor gains have been so damn low, though. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on December 14, 2006, 11:22:24 AM What makes things worse is I had two matches in a row where some guys on my side (horde) kept taking Snowfall and causing the alliance to turtle. Talk about horrible honor gains!
Was ok cause after that we got to 4-5 capping some noobs in AB, makes ya feel a lot better ;) Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Azazel on December 14, 2006, 12:12:17 PM I thought the usual path was to make things easier after all the catasses had their gear, not harder. This actually follows the SoE-EQ1 path perfectly. Once the ubercatasses have their gear, it's time to crank up the encounter's difficulty, because the guys with the best gear in the game were blasting through the content too quickly, so we need to make it harder for everyone else.. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 14, 2006, 12:23:39 PM What makes things worse is I had two matches in a row where some guys on my side (horde) kept taking Snowfall and causing the alliance to turtle. Talk about horrible honor gains! We had one match yesterday where horde ended up putting 25 men on defense. 5 or so folks were hiding in the cave or fishing (and talking shit the entire time). It was painful. I should have AFK'd out when I saw that fucking blob of morons at Galv. It was fun to cheer for the alliance every time they capped something and laugh at the idiots when FW was capped while they were furiously defending Galv, IB and Tower point. Sometimes the stupidity of your own side makes you wish you were playing Shadowbane or UO. I had fun going around capping the alliance towers/killing LTs with a hunter and mage that were amused by all of this as much as I was. I wish they'd put out another 40 man BG but actually think a bit before designing the map. I'm really surprised that horde wins any at all. Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Slayerik on December 14, 2006, 12:35:33 PM What makes things worse is I had two matches in a row where some guys on my side (horde) kept taking Snowfall and causing the alliance to turtle. Talk about horrible honor gains! We had one match yesterday where horde ended up putting 25 men on defense. 5 or so folks were hiding in the cave or fishing (and talking shit the entire time). It was painful. I should have AFK'd out when I saw that fucking blob of morons at Galv. It was fun to cheer for the alliance every time they capped something and laugh at the idiots when FW was capped while they were furiously defending Galv, IB and Tower point. Sometimes the stupidity of your own side makes you wish you were playing Shadowbane or UO. I had fun going around capping the alliance towers/killing LTs with a hunter and mage that were amused by all of this as much as I was. I wish they'd put out another 40 man BG but actually think a bit before designing the map. I'm really surprised that horde wins any at all. Yeah seriously, the alliance can just bypass the horde's NPCs. Usual Alliance love IMO...I hear the shaman are getting mana back from totems if you drop new ones while the old ones were still out there. Figures, now that alliance has em they better hook em up! ;) Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: Rasix on December 14, 2006, 07:01:15 PM Quote from: Drysc We have replied already that we're investigating claims of the honor reduction being applied more than once to a set of honor. The 30% reduction does apply to all honor gained, both from kills and bonus honor, which may account for the 'double reduction' some are seeing. Looking at the changes made it does not appear that the 30% reduction is being applied more than once for the honor gained, but we have a team working to test the claim and we'll hopefully have a solid answer for you in the next couple business days. :| Title: Re: PVP Patch Coming Tuesday Dec 5th Post by: lamaros on December 14, 2006, 08:34:39 PM Quote from: Some verified correct retard So, i decided to test out this honor nerf, before the patch, Lts in AV were worth 20 points, now they should be 14. So i go into an AV, hang out until first Lt is killed and i get +14 honor points. Sounds good, right? WRONG. today i have, you guessed it, 10 Honor points. Looks like the new calculation is -30% for bonus honor, then another - 30% at the end of the day.( Total nerf =-51% honor. So, it used to take X number of hours for items, now it takes 2.04 times X amount of hours.. L2Math Blizzard! Quote from: Blue Name Due to a question in another thread about us responding to Honor threads, I posted the following- I don't have anything to add to the Honor Reduction posts at this point in time. I could say "We're looking into that" but even if I say that, people will expect me to come back with information I can share and if I can't share more information they will be disappointed. We're between a rock and a hard place but we ARE doing what we can on our end. I hope that helps a little though I know there will be some that are ok with that message and others that want to know more. I don't have more for you right now and I can't tell you when I would have more for you. I thought my honor gains were rather low (4 AVs last night, around 850 honor). So yah, it's a 51% decrease currently in honor right now (30% while you earn, another 30% taken when they calculate). Back to leveling the druid. Man, they just can't get anything right recently. I hope this doesn't stick around for the holiday. That explains a lot. I thought I deserved more than 4k honour yesterday. I hope the give me this when they fix it. In other news BGs are crapping themselves today. Dunno if it's just my server or not, but I'm getting kicked randomly from BGs and getter deserter flag, have no BG into, can see info but I am not showing up on it, cannot quit out of BGs and have to /afk out, am being put in three BGs at the same time (or accourding to my info I am) etc.. Good old blizzard. |