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OK, I have to go ahead and say it. Schild was right and I was wrong. Shooters on a console can be awesome.

For the longest time I have stayed away from FPS games on console because I was *so* bad at them with the analog stick. I felt like a total fool trying to aim and stuff. I am pretty sure I have missed out on some good games due to this. But it is all changing. It started with Saints Row for Xbox 360. It was GTA but it didn't have a target lock. I have always loved GTA, but I would only use guns that could be locked on target, as I was worthless at aiming with the other guns. Saints Row was such a fun game, and I persisted, at first I had a lot of trouble aiming, constantly over correcting, and I had to use character movement and just left the cursor still, to get on target. Slowly I got better at aiming. Buy the time I had completed the game, I was much more competent at aiming with the analog stick, good enough in fact that I decided to pick up Gears of War.

Now, I don't know if its just Gears of War is a really good game, but it started to feel more immersive using the controller than most FPS games feel on the M+KB. Maybe its having surround sound, and a 60inch 1080i TV that also helped. When I started GoW, I had problems aiming still. The first few missions where some of the hardest for me, not in difficulty, but in actually hitting what I wanted to shoot at. I finished it yesterday, and I have started playing Hardcore mode, and I am having a great time. I went online, and actually did very well, usually coming in 1st or 2nd in ranking. This has got me wondering what else I have missed out on.

Now that I am much more competent with the analog aiming, I think im going to go pick up Rainbow 6: Vegas for Xbox and not the PC as I had planned. Also, I am now considering going back and grabbing a few games I never played, like King Kong. I still believe that M+KB will ALWAYS win out vs analog aiming, but I have found shooters can be very very fun on a console.

So in short, Schild, you where right about console FPS, and I was wrong. The controller is still not a precise way to aim, but it IS fun some times.

King Kong is good. I don't really play shooters competitively on consoles - still prefer mouse and keyboard. But for single player stuff? I may actually be favoring consoles. The only shooter that was overlooked on the last gen was something I missed the first time around, Cold Winter. Penned by Warren Ellis, it's actually pretty damn good.

I really need to go through and sort of rate the last gen according to what I played. Maybe that's a project for Thanksgiving. I tried doing the DS/GBA stuff, but my eyes kept wandering to PS2 stuff.

To be fair, you DID start out on one of the best FPS titles out there (GoW).  It takes some getting used to, for sure, but I'm *nearly* as good with the analog stick as I am with the mouse. 

Cold Winter was an excellent game, no doubt.  GREAT storyline.

It is possible to get decent aim with a console controller, still its a perversion. I can't wait for the first cross-platform FPS title that will allow you to play on PCs against consoles - it will be slaughter and will push for mouse and keyboards as a standard equipment on consoles. Now given that with console FPS everyone playing is equally gimped I imagine it can be equally gimped fun.

I agree.  Playing Gears of War last nite, I had lots of trouble early on but later I was more precise.  This is the best shooter I've played on a console, even beats Halo.  Not just eye-candy either, it's the way the game responds to you commands, I guess thats called gameplay.

That Cliffy B sure knows how to make a shooter.  Are you paying attention Carmack?

They aren't making a proper PC version of R6Vegas anyway. It's just a crappy console port, so you might as well play it in your living room if you must.

I never really understood the point of taking the R6 franchise and removing the only unique or interesting part of the process, ie. mission planning. Or at least, I could understand removing it on the console where it's just not possible and you want to take the opportunity to sell *something* with the brand, but ass-raping the PC version in the process.... shame.

Sure, you can design good console shooters, you just have to go into the process accepting that it's a different genre and a different experience to PC shooters.

I haven't had a problem playing 1st person shooters on a console, but it's easy to see that the keyboard/mouse control is MUCH superior. Having said that, Gears is a good game to get used to the console controls since the Locust move slow enough that you can track them with the thumbstick pretty easily. I only run into any trouble when I get  in VERY close combat range, but you switch to the melee attack anyways when that happens. There's no need for quick aiming in Gears, which makes it the perfect console shooter.

One weird thing I have though, is that 1st person shooters on the PC give me motion sickness, but I have never experience that with a console shooter. Only thing I can think of is that on the PC I'm leaning closer and closer to the monitor as I get into the game and the rapid movements do me in. Somewhat of an oddity anyways.

I'm way more proficient with M&KB but I'm purchasing more and more shooters for the 360 instead of my PC. Two reasons really:

1. I'm old and suck at them anyway, so although I'm 'better' with a keyboard it's not enough to make me competitive.

2. More importantly, most shooters are console first then PC. As a result, they are designed with the console interface in mind, which drives me mad on the PC. ie. It'll be interesting how the "A" button function is ported to the PC for GoW.

That said I still believe that shooters designed for the PC are best left on that platform and if you're serious about the genre it's the platform of choice (much like MMOG's). But I'll be buying R6 Vegas for the 360.

The more your peripheral vision picks up the motion on the screen the more motion sickness you will feel.

After playing through Gears again this weekend, on Hardcore mode (Medium difficulty) I think im going to have to say that it has ruined FPS games for me. From now on, if you cant take cover and have it work smoothly like Gears, its just going to be a let down. I really really like the cover system, and the fluid way it all works together. I think I might be turning in to a GoW fanboy. This game is a very good game.

Can I bunnyhop out of cover and then rocket jump behind my enemies?

Yes, that works great. You will do very well with that tactic.

Fuck yeah. Ima pwn u bitches n azzrap0rz u!!!!!!

I have to agree, the primary benefit of the mouse/keyboard is being able to aim while moving. You could never use a stick to dust somebody with a railgun while flying across the screen off of a jump pad, but that method of run-and-gun gameplay is really beginning to show its age.

The current generation of games tends to make it difficult or impossible to run and fire accurately, and, for most weapons, burst fire is the rule instead of precision shots, and ambush tactics and use of the surroundings (i.e. camping) is encouraged by the game design. I think that the consoles are up to the task.

I've gotten pretty damn accurate while moving. The analog sticks on the PS3 are dreamy compared to the dual shock and the 360 pad is a masterpiece of engineering. Still not as good as a mouse, but more fun, no doubt.

My friend and I are starting GoW coop Hardcore tomorrow nite.  We also race each other in TDU.  Voice chat coop is THE future of multiplayer.  I type fast so I've never really tried voice...now I'm a believer.   :lol:

It can still be pretty unpleasant with strangers. Especially the strange ones.

Them and teenagers.  Teenagers are without exception little fucksticks whom I'd strangle in a second if only technology would allow it.  Thankfully since I work midnights I do the whole "gaming at 4 in the morning" thing and I either run into mostly adult night owls or Brits.

I roleplay a deaf mute.

My M1 does my talking.

I'm still on the mouse and KB bandwagon. It's superior, no question about it (especially with 2000dpi laser mice).

However, I like my 360 quite a bit and the FPSs I have for it are quite fun. The analog stick works pretty well--well enough with practice (and some tuning). For sheer conveniance, the console is hard to beat, especially when taken with Live! service. I also agree with the cover elements in Perfect Dark Zero and GoW. I first encountered it in PD0, but I think it'll be almost mandatory in FPSs from here on out.

Still, I'm considering moving my 360 from it's comfy perch under the TV to my 24" LCD monitor in the computer room. The mouse and KB adaptor gadget for the 360 might very well be enough to convince me to make that move. That and my spare Razor Copperhead. Now if that thing would work with my N52...

Cover was pretty important in bf1942, a sandbag wall could make or break a charge. Not so sure in bf2 or 2142, since the push is for run-n-gun over a slower tactical pace. I hope that the popularity of stuff like GoW will shift more fps in that direction.

Seconded.  GoW's gameplay and method of using the cover was pretty solid.

I hate to be "that guy,' but I feel R6: LV handles better than Gears.

BF1942 was the first FPS that I really enjoyed.  Tactical cover and positioning, accuracy bonuses for kneeling and being prone, and a nice dramatic theme added to immersion.  Shame it had to be an EA product.

I feel the same way.   I personally prefer the Left Trigger to grab cover in RB6 over the A button in Gears.   Also the "take cover" animation in gears, while neat, got annoying after a while.

I've had a blast with both though.

Yeah, I like the cover system of R6:V better.  It's really sort of apples and oranges, though.  Gears of War is a frantic shooter while Rainbow Six is far more tactical.  Whichever mood I'm in decides what I'll play, but after spending some more time with Gears I don't think I'm ready to say that R6 is better.  They're different is all.

So you're essentially saying I'm not good enough, Gulp. I get it.  :cry:

Sorry NiX, but the AI performs better. :evil:

I like elements of both cover systems. It really is different. RB6:V is much more tactical, in gameplay, and it is reflected in the cover system. I do wish it was a bit more easy in GoW to pop up, or sideways, but I think I like holding the trigger to pop out more, and there was a few times in rainbow where I ment to lean out, and ended up standing right in front of an enemy.

Both are very fun, and Ill play the one I feel like, when I feel like it. Now, if only Splinter Cell had the RB6 cover system. That would have been better. Hell, if Splinter Cell had more RB6 like controls it would be awesome.

Truth be told, I think the cover system from both of these games has ruined me for other shooters.  I tried firing up HL2 and FEAR just for shits and giggles, and while both were great games at the time they really, really feel lacking without that cover mechanic.

I think we've seen the de rigeur standard for shooters now, and games that neglect that are just going to feel a lot shallower.

Agreed.  I tried playing GRAW and it just felt wierd not having it.

Speaking of mechanics; When did they get rid of the open door slowly in RB6?  Wasn't that a staple of the franchise?

I'd just like to point out that I was praising GoW's cover mechanics in Schild's video preview (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=8484.0) a while back.

And I still haven't actually played it. Damnit.

Are you talking about being able to control the door swing? I think that's in the SWAT games, I've never seen it in an RB6 game.

It was in Rainbow Six 3

Yeah.  You could use the mouse wheel to open the door slowly.  Was handy.

Whose got time for that?  One guy opens the door, the other guy chucks in a grenade.  Anything else is just pussyfooting around.

Most of the rooms in R6:V have 2 entrances so a well organized team who pauses between one pair opening one door and the other can get the jump on the bad guys.

<1up>You open doors by hand?  How quaint!  Go go blasting charges.</1up>

Now that I think about it I guess it really got replaced by the snake cam.  Not a big loss.

The second door was for Ensigns Fodder and Red Shirt while I entered stage left.