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Title: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Threash on November 07, 2006, 03:38:46 PM Quote from: Drysc - Arena team ranking system: As it uses a rating system that can punish you for losing to teams worse than you, most players are going to play their minimum 10 games, see how they stand, and decide whether they're feeling lucky and want to gamble being at a worse standing by fighting another team, and so on and so forth. It's a system that actually discourages grinding, so again, please feel free to locate information on something before commenting. - Week: At the end of each week (maintenance day) your team's standing is calculated and arena points are distributed. The arena points can then be saved or spent on rewards. - Season: Each season lasts three months, and at the end of a season cool status/cosmetic-only prizes are handed out to the top teams, and if needed we can add new rewards so that the arena is keeping up with any new PvE items we've released. That's it, arena points aren't wiped, the season is simply a time for us to recognize the top performing teams and also possibly add some new rewards. - Arena rankings level requirement: Rated arena matches are only available at level 70. Pre-70 you can play in arena skirmishes which only reward you with honor points as you're just killing doodz. You can also enter skirmish matches at 70 for practice, or if you just aren't on a team. - Teams are matched based on their standing, so in general the best teams are going to be match against other 'best teams'. However, the system still allows for everyone else to work towards high-end rewards at the pace their abilities allow them to. Will you work at your PvP skill and move up in rank week after week, or will you flounder about at the bottom? The arenas are a place for those that want to use their PvP abilities to gain high-end rewards to do so, and while everyone can participate and work towards their goals, everyone should be working on improving their skill and earning those rewards. - There are no individual player ranks in the arena system that the rewards could even be limited by, if such a thing existed. The only thing I can think of that could even be mistaken for a player rank is that you'll earn titles at the end of a season for being in one of the top teams, but it's simply a title and has no bearing on anything but your ability to show off how much of a bad ass you are. Even if you're consistently in the worst arena team on your realm you'll still be able to accumulate arena points and eventually be able to purchase rewards, it's just going to take you a really long time. - You get an equal portion of the team's arena points at the end of the week as long as you participated in at least 30% of the games the team played. If you really want to participate in the arena system and work towards the rewards then you're probably not going to want to sit on a team charter as an alternate. The alternate spots are really just there so the team doesn't have to kick anyone if someone isn't able to play for a week; they can just invite someone to fill in for a short time. Q: Also, if there are only 2 people in my 2v2 team roster, and one disconnects/afk's, do i forfeit the game and get a mark against me? A: If both players die or leave the game world you would lose the match. You can't hot swap members into the match regardless of who's on the roster. Q: Also, do different level brackets have their own fighting systems? you said that the 'best teams' will play against other 'best teams', so does this mean a good lvl 30 team would be playing against a bad lvl 40 team? A: What I was referring to were ranked teams at level 70 being paired up based on their team's standing. In the case of skirmishes there are level brackets players will be paired up by similar to the battlegrounds. The arena skirmish level brackets are actually divided by every five levels as opposed to every 10 like in the battlegrounds (60-64, 65-69, 70, and of course all the levels below those). Sounds very interesting so far. I really like the idea of cosmetic/bragging right rewards for top teams while allowing everyone to get the best rewards at slower pace, not to mention new rewards that keep up with the ever more powerfull pve epics. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: caladein on November 07, 2006, 11:05:22 PM Sounds exactly like what my guild and I are looking for. Couldn't really be happier if it goes live like this.
:heart: Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Dren on November 08, 2006, 05:24:44 AM Hmm, sounds quite good. Even *I* might be able to get into PvP and get some kind of accomplishment out of it.
I just hope the system works well and doesn't require hours of queue like their original battlegrounds. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Shavnir on November 08, 2006, 07:07:42 AM I think its quite reasonable to assume that it'll use the same cross server match ups that the current BGs use.
In addition all 'honor' rewards are now additive instead of ladder based. And there's more rewards you can get by using various honor tokens from winning or losing the BGs. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Typhon on November 08, 2006, 07:17:56 AM and we get the gear reset that comes with grinding to 70 (which should allow my casual/small guild self to compete). This sounds like it could be fun.
Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Threash on November 08, 2006, 07:23:08 AM Theres very little chance at queues since the arenas are not faction based, you will see alliance vs alliance and horde vs horde fights.
Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: tazelbain on November 08, 2006, 07:34:13 AM What's a team in WoW?
In Guild Wars, we many teams practicing like it was a fulltime job. I assume we are going to see the same thing here. I was in several causal guilds, we had a lot fun until we won too much and had to face the pro-teams. I wonder if a simular effect will happen here. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Dren on November 08, 2006, 07:34:51 AM Theres very little chance at queues since the arenas are not faction based, you will see alliance vs alliance and horde vs horde fights. Even better. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Threash on November 08, 2006, 08:20:01 AM What's a team in WoW? In Guild Wars, we many teams practicing like it was a fulltime job. I assume we are going to see the same thing here. I was in several causal guilds, we had a lot fun until we won too much and had to face the pro-teams. I wonder if a simular effect will happen here. A team works just like a guild, you get a charter and invite members. I imagine theres going to be plenty of people taking this very seriously but im personally not terribly worried about it. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Jayce on November 08, 2006, 11:41:53 AM What's a team in WoW? In Guild Wars, we many teams practicing like it was a fulltime job. I assume we are going to see the same thing here. I was in several causal guilds, we had a lot fun until we won too much and had to face the pro-teams. I wonder if a simular effect will happen here. It sounds highly likely. Though I think it may just be the nature of the beast. You see it in RTS ladders, FPS ladders, and any other type of ladder. If you want player skill to play a part, you will have to accept that some people will spend a LOT of time learning those skills. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Venkman on November 08, 2006, 02:06:49 PM Same disparity exists today. Ever join a PUG BG and know within 20 seconds you're up against a guild using Vent/TS/Skype? :)
Otherwise, Arenas sound cool. Not particularly relevant until level 70 though it seems. Meanwhile, what happens with AV, WSG and AB? How do those work under the new system? Same as current (Honor for kills, bonus for winning instance)? Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Threash on November 08, 2006, 02:13:36 PM Same disparity exists today. Ever join a PUG BG and know within 20 seconds you're up against a guild using Vent/TS/Skype? :) Otherwise, Arenas sound cool. Not particularly relevant until level 70 though it seems. Meanwhile, what happens with AV, WSG and AB? How do those work under the new system? Same as current (Honor for kills, bonus for winning instance)? The bg marks you get for winning/losing are part of the price of the regular honor pvp items now so you still gotta play them. I assume you still get bonus honor for doing them. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Venkman on November 08, 2006, 02:19:35 PM Wait, huh? You mean the Tokens for AB and AV (never did WSG) for turn-in to the NPC near the Battlemasters? I've been turning those in purely for cash and Rep gains.
Is there a link that outlines this all? Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: lamaros on November 08, 2006, 02:42:24 PM The Arena matchup system works very much like WC3 ladder system worked.
So the top of the ladders are going to be very competitive. Skill (read: Teamwork) will overcome a bit of that 'having to practice very often to be good' aspect, but, of course, those that have skill and practice often will obviously be even higher up. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Nebu on November 08, 2006, 02:50:54 PM So what happens if you have a very good team but don't play much? Are you relegated to fighting lower quality groups?
Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: lamaros on November 08, 2006, 03:00:13 PM So what happens if you have a very good team but don't play much? Are you relegated to fighting lower quality groups? You fight based on your ladder position. You need to play 10 matches a week to be counted in ladder adjustments. The adjustments go on your win/loss against the other teams, weighted by their ranking. So if you play ten matches and win them all, against good teams, your ranking will go up a bit. If you play 15 matches against good teams and win 11, you ranking will not go up as much. If you play 25 and win 15 it will go up even less. And if you play 50 matches, but only win 23, your ranking will go down. As long as you play ten then you will get counted in adjustments, any more than that makes no difference as it's a ladder. You get points for your place in the ladder at the end of each week, not on how many games you won. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Threash on November 08, 2006, 04:07:46 PM Wait, huh? You mean the Tokens for AB and AV (never did WSG) for turn-in to the NPC near the Battlemasters? I've been turning those in purely for cash and Rep gains. Is there a link that outlines this all? Yes those tokens are used for honor and bg rewards now, along with the actual honor you get. Theres no official link yet explaining everything as far as i know but the BC forums at www.worldofraids.com have most of the info. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: caladein on November 08, 2006, 06:26:36 PM Threash beat me to it, but basically:
- Black War Raptor currently requires 9g and for you to be Rank 11 at the time of purchase. - In BC, it'll require X amount of honor and Y (20 I think) tokens from each BG (and 150 Riding). The last screenshots I saw only show you needing tokens from the current three BGs, although I'm sure they'll add in the the new BG as a requirement later on. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Venkman on November 08, 2006, 08:38:34 PM Ok, lemme see if I got this right:
Honor level is still going to be grinded, but it's a one way progression to unlock gear. Arena is for endgamers. What is the func That about irght? Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: lamaros on November 08, 2006, 09:27:52 PM Ok, lemme see if I got this right:
Honor level is still going to be grinded, but it's a one way progression to unlock gear. Arena is for endgamers. What is the func That about irght? Arena skirmishes provide no honour, no nothing. I dont know if there are arena ranks. I think perhaps not. Just a position on the Arena ladder. Ladder Arena Matches can only be participated in by level 70 characters. Your team gains points each week depending on your position on the ladder. Your team must play at least 10 games to be eligable for this. You gain points individualy based on your contribution to the team games played over the last week. You must play at least 30% of your teams games to be eligable for these points. You buy Arena items with these points. There is a cap at how many of these points you can have. Arena points do not decay over time. Arena awards are different to BG awards. They may also be different from ladder season to ladder season. Arena points may get reset at the start of a new season. Both these final points are speculation. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: caladein on November 08, 2006, 09:40:59 PM Honor
Arena
The top post (and lamaros's) have most of the info on ranked matches, but I'll clear up some of your questions:
EDIT: There's nothing I've read that states that the Arena gear magically updates on its own. In between seasons though, new stuff adds or replaces gear that may have been outdone by any new PvE stuff. You'd have to buy it again though, just like when they changed the Blue PvP sets from level 58 to 60. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: lamaros on November 08, 2006, 09:55:46 PM
Just a minor fix. Bold where changed. Points are determined by the position of your team in the ladder at the end of the week, and your contribution (number of games played) to the team over that time. That is all. The higher you are on the ladder the more points your team gets. The more games you played, as a percentage of the teams total games, over the last week the more points you get individualy. It doesn't matter if you just joined the team that week, and had ZERO part in their rise to the top. If you are a contributing member of a team you get points based of the rank that week, and that week only. So you could be high ranked and lose a lot of games one week and go down a few places but still gain more points than a low ranked team that wins a lot of games and goes up a few ranks that same week. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Venkman on November 09, 2006, 06:02:43 AM Ah, now I get it.
One last question: are the current tokens you receive in the current BGs usable under the new system? Like, should I be hoarding them instead of turning them in? Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Shavnir on November 09, 2006, 07:39:27 AM Current tokens are Unique (20), whereas they'll change to be Unique (100) come expansion.
Plus almost all the rewards are Req level 70. If you want to, go ahead and do so though. http://thottbot.com/beta?s=mark+of+honor <-- click the four BG marks of honor to see how many marks each reward takes. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Venkman on November 09, 2006, 08:46:24 AM Oh, NOW I get it. That's why people talk about these as if they are coins.
Just going down the list of AV rewards (http://thottbot.com/beta?i=6747) though, there seems to be quite a bit in the high 50s and 60s. Even Tier 1 MC is beyond a lof of that stuff, but it's at least an option for some. It's probably worth hoarding Tokens if you aren't raiding much and haven't hit Exalted. The only difference between pre-BC and post-BC tokens seems to be by how much they stack. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Threash on November 09, 2006, 10:59:16 AM BG rep wont make any difference in the new system either so using them for that is kind of a waste unless you are pushing for the next level.
Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Venkman on November 09, 2006, 06:09:20 PM Reputation no longer counts towards what can be purchased? So it's only how many Tokens you have and what level you are? That's good to know.
Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Bstaz on November 10, 2006, 12:52:54 PM Can you still get exp from the battle grounds? Having leveled from 20 to 60 on just tokens I was looking forward to doing the same up to 70 but have not seem much on that. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Threash on November 10, 2006, 12:54:36 PM Can you still get exp from the battle grounds? Having leveled from 20 to 60 on just tokens I was looking forward to doing the same up to 70 but have not seem much on that. I would seriously doubt it, the turning in npcs that you gave the tokens too for rep and exp are no longer used. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: SurfD on November 10, 2006, 03:53:53 PM Can you still get exp from the battle grounds? Having leveled from 20 to 60 on just tokens I was looking forward to doing the same up to 70 but have not seem much on that. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Chenghiz on November 10, 2006, 07:15:20 PM Well, for one you're not fighting a predictably coded AI monster.
Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Teleku on November 11, 2006, 04:27:43 AM Yeah, me and some friends have actually been doing the BG token level up thing with our alts. I know many others doing it as well. It actually goes pretty fast, and is a great way to gain rep and honor rank. PvP and BGs are a ton of fun, so it really doesnt feel like grinding at all. Went from 50 to 60 with my rogue alt that way and it was great. YMMV of course.
Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Venkman on November 11, 2006, 05:43:31 AM Wish I had that sort of time. I like the idea of leveling up on PvP, because the tactics always change (whereas in PvE, they do not). But it's just easier for the time compressed to gain XP against predictable behavior as delivered by quests.
Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Bstaz on November 11, 2006, 11:56:39 AM Can you still get exp from the battle grounds? Having leveled from 20 to 60 on just tokens I was looking forward to doing the same up to 70 but have not seem much on that. It was actually a lot of fun. When you hit 60 you are exhaulted in all the battle grounds. I liked it because I could slip games in here and there and if real life calls you just /afk no big deal. You can't do that if you are raiding, or even questing with a small group. But in PvP there is almost always another warm body to step in and take your place instantly. I figured it was about 500 wins per level bracket to level up. (ie. 10->20, or 30->40) We ended up playing a lot more then that. Waiting for everyone to get to the top the of bracket before we would level as a group and you wanted to be the big guys in the BG for a bit before dropping down to the bottom of the next bracket. This was all before cross server BGs and there were some great enemies as you actually saw the same people more then once a week. Since is was such a small group on both sides every game was a major battle, no one was saying 3 fast losses is better then one long win. Each match was a grudge match, we used to play WSG games for ~2 hours sometimes. Both teams had too much pride to give in to the other because we knew each other and faced each other so much. Thats fun PVP in my book. Leveling off the blood of your enemy doesn't hurt either. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: jpark on November 12, 2006, 08:31:55 AM I just hope the system works well and doesn't require hours of queue like their original battlegrounds. If you play alliance - this will not change. Topic for another thread. Title: Re: Pvp Arena infoz Post by: Zetor on November 12, 2006, 08:38:58 AM I just hope the system works well and doesn't require hours of queue like their original battlegrounds. If you play alliance - this will not change. Topic for another thread. -- Z. |