f13.net

And I hate Sony, and Squeenix by association.

You played NWN1, rite?

That's because you're irrational.

That, and I don't have an irrational fear that FF12 will poof out of print and I'll need to give a minor organ for it on eBay like I do with Disgaea 2.

Saves me the trouble.  I'll play a Square game again when they learn what a male human looks like.

(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9027/ffxiismallwq3.jpg)

So so so so so so so, who else is spending Monday/Midnight til Saturday night playing FFXII? I am. First time I've been excited for a Final Fantasy since 7. And if I don't finish it before Guitar Hero 2 it'll never get done. SO! Who's with me? Who will be playing this game regularly enough that we can actually talk about the content (even if we have to put absolute spoilers in black)?

And yes, I've had enough "hands-on" time to be this excited... and if you're thinking what you're thinking than you're probably right.

ROUND 1! DISCUSS!

Hey, Jain. This is the first FF I've looked forward to since 8. Considering I lasted less than 3 hours in 8, that's something. The opening alone in FFXII is one of the finest things I've seen in gaming. Also, "railroaded anime teenaged shitfest?" Please to know more about game before you open your mouth and look like an asshole.  :roll:

Saves me the trouble.  I'll play a Square game again when they learn what a male human looks like.  I liked Square's stuff back in the SNES era, but as soon as technology improved enough for the characters to go from little squat pixel-dudes to fruity femboys, I was out.

I like how chucklefucks who take umbrage at my ripping something they like will automatically leap to talking about UO and Star Wars, no matter how irrelevant the topic or how tortured the attempt at comparison.  Listen, Hayden Christensen at his emo-whining braid-having wussiest is a god damned bear-killing lumberjack compared to the average Final Fantasy protagonist.  Seriously, go look at that box art again.  If I hand a game to someone who's never heard of it before and ask them what it is, and their first guess is gay porn, I'm not buying it.

I already got over the camera a while ago. It becomes second nature after a few hours. By the way, best FF since 6. Easily.

Just keep reminding yourself that you're moving the camera, not the view.  It's apparent from your description that was the programmer's thought process, and nobody else pointed out the flaw in his logic.

When you champion an MMORPG that's years past its prime, and a series that had 2 and a half good movies out of the six that were made, expect some backlash any time you attempt to criticize anything.

Especially when your criticism boils down to "lol this series is teh gay".  Despite prevalent jokes about effeminate characters I could probably count on 1 hand the number of main FF characters that sport an androgynous look (maybe more if you count some of the FFXI male hume characters), and people who like to exaggerate that amount probably spend too much time surfing the Internet for gay FF fan-art.   Jesus, I hate that I'm even bothering to defend the FF series since I really haven't liked much of anything Square has done in the past several years, but then I just didn't like the games they were making.  I wasn't scared off by boarderline homophobia.

Saves me the trouble.  I'll play a Square game again when they learn what a male human looks like.  I liked Square's stuff back in the SNES era, but as soon as technology improved enough for the characters to go from little squat pixel-dudes to fruity femboys, I was out.

Isn't this the game that plays itself?

If you mean configuring your party members to fight on their own including the party leader (the one you are moving around on the screen) then yes it is.

Also, I am wondering if the action timers are based on weapon speeds? That would be pretty nice, such that people with daggers are much quicker than people with bows/2handers.

ALSO - probably a stupid question, but any chance this will have any sort of 2-player functionality? Sort of like back in FF3 (US) a 2nd player could control some of the party members? That would be neat, but unlikely.

This game seems a bit complex on the surface and I forgot how much I hated having to go upstairs to check gamefaqs on my PC or bringing my laptop to the living room when I was completing the Shadow Hearts games (thanks Merusk). 

Missing this game should be a fucking crime. I don't care if the lead characters were outright gay and made fun of Jews as side banter. This shit rocks.

I already got over the camera a while ago. It becomes second nature after a few hours. By the way, best FF since 6. Easily.

 Apparently creating Barret for FFVII consumed Square's small quota of masculinity for the rest of eternity.

Six was the best. I love 4 because of how young I was. But six is the best. This one may succeed in being better than 6 though.

What makes this game so great?  If your only answer is story then no, its not a crime.

The game is getting pretty rave reviews everywhere.

You said that about Disgaea 2 as well.  I found it to be merely pretty decent and that's because I like SRPGs.

Why should we believe you again?

What makes this game so great?  If your only answer is story then no, its not a crime.

It's funny, everyone in f13.house thinks it's some of the best character models EVER. Even the running animations are fairly amazing.

So, how can you handle adding Steal to a gambit? Because apparently once you steal something the target is cleaned out, but someone with a steal gambit will keep stealin-stealin-stealin. Is there a higher level gambit that fixes this, or are you supposed to steal crap manually? Because given how tight the game is with cash... you need to be stealin'.

I love 4 because of how young I was.

or if you can find the "Foe: character HP = 100%" gambit (which I haven't yet) you could set things up so it would the first gambit on all your characters. Your thieves would set their action to Steal and everybody else would be set to some "null" action like Libra or something. Then you have one of your characters do some damage after you've stolen something which would push all the actions down to the second gambit.

Nah, by the time the PS3 comes out, the game will have been ruined 5 times over on this message board and everywhere else I'm sure. It's one of those titles you either play now or never. Cuz Snape is in the story killing its Dumbledores.

For the FF stuff, I just prefer having the very nicely-formatted professional guides and tables instead of the ASCII garbage you need to print-out yourself, and never has all the info you want so you have to print out multiple different guides.

The watercolourish textures are straight from the Radiata Stories school of character design.

The director left halfway through the project because he went a little nuts and disappeared shortly after Hironobu Sakaguchi left Squaresoft. The Japanese tend to do that - go nuts that is...

So, you do get Mob Weak = Lightning type shit after you get the first esper. So it seems like mages become useful around hour 20.

So, you do get Mob Weak = Lightning type shit after you get the first esper. So it seems like mages become useful around hour 20.

This game is what I wish MMOs would be.  It's possibly what FFXI could have been.

Pay attention to the MP and the other stats of your party members. Those are the only things that distinguish one character from another (yes they start with different licenses that but difference goes away pretty quickly). E.g. Basch and Baltheir have the lowest MPs of any of the 6 so Basch may not be the best choice for turning into a Pally.

I'm confused. Libra will reveal mob elemental weakness from the very start of the game. Are you referring to something else?

I assume he means the gambit for targetting lightning (or another element) weak mobs.

Yea, summonings and quickenings really make non-white magic unnecessary. I still plan on using my way underleveled (but with nearly 200 LP) Fran a magic-slinging bombstaff-wielding bitch-queen.

I think I need to set this game aside for a bit. My mind is in lazy mode. Everything seems cool enough, but I'm just not in the mood to run around these cities, listen to npc's, and keep track of quests and locations right now (the game could use a better quest log and map btw).

From what I've read in the guide (I've been reading it obsessively) bows, crossbows and guns are fairly useless as main means of damage dealing.  They offer a few advantages as support weapons, though.

For all ranged weapons, you can't be counter attacked when using them.  They are also required to hit any flying monsters.  From what I can tell, they're also the only weapon you can add status effects to (via Ammo) without changing their damage output too much.

  For example, if you wanted a weapon with "silence" on it, you'd have to use the Mage Masher (Dagger), meaning you'd do significantly less damage later in the game when you've got better melee weapons.   For a gun you'd just swap in "Silent Shot" ammo, reducing your damage by at most 3.

Individual Break-down
Bows:  Suck, but they're the most frequently found.  They're affected by weather conditions and can outright miss. Damage is determined by power of the bow & arrow, and character strength and speed. They don't offer a bonus to evasion.

Crossbows:  Enemies cannot parry or counter crossbow attacks.  They also don't seem to be affected by the weather conditions.  Damage is determined by bow & bolt, character strength and enemy defense.  Crossbows add 5 to evasion.

Guns: Very slow to fire (almost twice as long as anything else) but, they always hit (100% accuracy).  Enemies cannot parry, block or counter guns and they ignore enemy defense ratings. Damage is determined only by the power of the gun & ammo and they add 10 to evasion. 

In all, ranged weaps seem to be more of a "fall back on" weapon, not something you'd keep on your characters all the time.  Equip your 'hybrid' build characters with them instead of rods/ staves (which give bonuses to magick & mana)  maybe, but that'd be it. 

You're correct on the armor breakdown.(Trashcan had commented that light seemed to be +hp, +defense and Heavy seemed to be ++def, +str)  The plate armor is made more for front line damage dealers, since it gives lots of bonuses to Strength, which is one of the primary stats almost all melee weapons use to determine damage.  (Maces don't, they use Magick Power) If you're going for pure damage-soak tanking then light armor has the most HPs on it.

 Later on it mentions you'll want to switch your damage-takers to the heavy mail, because high defense results in less damage taken per-hit.  Access to the 'Bubble' spell (Arcane 5) doubles a character's HPs, so the lack of +HP on the equipment becomes less of a concern.  Even moreso if you make sure to pick-up as many of the +HP Augment licenses as you can.

As for shields:  They offer not only evasion, but outright block of attacks.  If an attack is blocked, you take no damage for it at all.  A few of them have immunity or resistance to elemental damages as well.  If you're setting up a pure 'tanking' character, it's a good choice to have one equipped and let everyone else deal the damage.

A 112 attack chain later and I was still only getting the gold glowy coin-drops.  The best of those I had was 4 items. (Sometimes just 4 pelts, sometimes 4 windstones, sometimes 2 pelts 2 stones)  However, the drops seemed to become rarer as your chain leveled-up, so I think it evened out.  Really, the most I got out of the whole exercise was 112 LP I wouldn't have had otherwise, and some extra gil.

I think I need to set this game aside for a bit. My mind is in lazy mode. Everything seems cool enough, but I'm just not in the mood to run around these cities, listen to npc's, and keep track of quests and locations right now (the game could use a better quest log and map btw).

Ranged weapons useless? Uh... guns ignore armor.

The point of battle chains is to increase the chance of an item drop(s) including increasing the chance of getting rare and super rare drops. Killing low level wolves is not a good test of them since the best that'll drop from a wolf is an antidote.

Ranged weapons useless? Uh... guns ignore armor.

Understood, but I was going for 'how many levels are there?"  The answer; "gold coin" is your ceiling at either 40 or 60 chains (pretty sure it's 40.)   I also read something that conformed my suspicion, the longer your chain the rarer drops get.  There's also a "hidden" chain that increases your drop chances for each different monster you kill. Still tho, the visible chains are better.

For the main story line the game sticks a humongous circled X on the map telling you exactly where to go, talking to certain NPCs will remind you where you are supposed to go *and* it tells you what you are supposed to be doing at the bottom of the map. That's better quest guidance than any MMORPG out there right now and light years beyond the earlier FFs. For Hunts you can look up the details in your Clan Primer if you lose track of what you are supposed to be hunting or who you need to talk to. The one thing it doesn't do any hand holding for you is side quests. And what's wrong with the map?

The map only lets me pinpoint on districts, not on the actual icons on the map (so I can tell which shop or building this or that is, etc..). I can barely make out what the hell those icons look like too, for that matter.

You know what that strat guide needs? Index.

You have the strat guide don't you? There are tables in there.

You know what that strat guide needs? Index.

I haven't played any thing else since I got it.  I did, however, break for Desperate Housewives.

How am I going to explain this to my wife?

Your problem is you don't have an NTSC PS2? You should really remedy that.

Next week.

With a PS3.

There is no crafting from what I have seen/read - the purpose of the vast majority of the "loot' items is just that. They are there for you to sell.


Spoiler: selling some types of items in results in unlocking bazaar packages.

Is everything in the loot section safe to sell?  I'm hanging on to the loot I get from hunts because I'm worried a later quest might want a "rainbow speckled egg" but I would rather get rid of it.

I'm also hoarding pebbles...

I demand a better spoiler!

Oh look.  I sort of spoiled the spoiler up there.  OOPS!   :-P

After you defeat that wall in the tomb, DON'T go back and save.  It resets it.   :cry:

I was wrong.  Sorry. 

The thing that no FAQ's are answering for me:

is there some general description of the following:
1) What stats different characters excel at?
2) How these stats translate into weapona/armor/magic usage?

I just want to know that it's not stupid to, for example, have Penelo specialize in axes or something like that.  I wanted to turn some of the stereotypes on their head by, for example, having the girl characters be the plate-waering badasses, and the guys be the casters with staves, but I'm not sure if I'll get penalized, stat-wise, for that (and it probably doesn't matter and I'll probably do it anyway, but I just wanted to know how it worked as I'm a numbers freak).

1).  In the long run, Ashe and Penelo have the highest MP, and and magic power.  Baltheir, Basch and Fran have the lowest.  Seems like a lot of people are making Fran a mage, but her stats for it somewhat suck. Her stats in general aren't great.   You could turn Vaan into a good enough magic user but he's got great physical stats as well.   

I just want to know that it's not stupid to, for example, have Penelo specialize in axes or something like that.  I wanted to turn some of the stereotypes on their head by, for example, having the girl characters be the plate-waering badasses, and the guys be the casters with staves, but I'm not sure if I'll get penalized, stat-wise, for that (and it probably doesn't matter and I'll probably do it anyway, but I just wanted to know how it worked as I'm a numbers freak).

I thought Fran had some special magic traits or something.

So can anyone verify that there is no goddamn blitzball in this one?

I refuse to play anything involving goddamn blitzball ever again.

In the story Fran is Force, I mean Mist sensitive but stats wise she's not the best caster (Ashe and Penelo are).

Does that mean she has high casting power, or what?

Basch and Balthier (sp?) both have poles and I'm about to give Balthier a rod.  Just because.

In fact the game is lacking in the "minigame" department for those that like that sort of thing.

I find the bounty and clan hunts to be fantastic minigames. ;)

I am just trying to understand items again.  Is there a way for me to tell in game (or a good list out of game) for what weapons benefit from which stats?  And which boosts I can get from which armors?

I was thinking of making Penelo a support caster in mystic armor with a katana (as apparently that boosts damage with magic?).  Does that make sense? :-)

How in the fuck do I kill the "croakadile"??  He uses regen (even when silenced) to auto full heal himself whenever he gets to about 10% hp.  Anyone beat that fucker yet because he's been annoying the hell out of me.

I was thinking of making Penelo a support caster in mystic armor with a katana (as apparently that boosts damage with magic?).  Does that make sense? :-)

Spoilers:  Rank 2 Hunt fight question (Gazia during rainy season)

How in the fuck do I kill the "croakadile"??  He uses regen (even when silenced) to auto full heal himself whenever he gets to about 10% hp.  Anyone beat that fucker yet because he's been annoying the hell out of me.

What other weapons (if any) get boosts from magic?  Speed (any?)?  Everything else is strength?

Here's a helpful hit for folks: do hunts when you've got a guest.  Free DPS and some of them aren't made of paper (I'm looking at you, Larsa.. damn kid). 

Awesome, thanks for the weapon info.

Don't get too hung up on "stat matching". Each weapon type behaves slightly different and those differences are often more interesting than trying to min/max stats. Also as you play you may pick up a weapon that are far better than what is available in stores at the moment which might cause you to juggle who can wield what type of weapon.

Status effects, gah I hate those.  I keep hunting for gambits that are "Ally= <status>" just so I can bot my white-magic.   

I think you'll be at 60+ hours when you beat it.

Hundreds and hundreds of hours if you don't bother to turn it off when you wander off or go to bed.  I'm already up to 80-something!   :-)

I meant the guide & hints about getting the spear, not the spear itself.

I was kinda pissed when I realized I'd opened the first one and boned myself.  Not pissed enough to restart, but still.

Don't break games? I'm levelling my characters unattended right now. I should take a pic of the 999 chain message. (It stops at 999)

Where at? Undead spawning place where you get the Medallion of Might?  I think they spawn endlessly there.

The spear is like a .1% drop on steal though, from what I've read.

Odd; the strategy guide I read seems to indicate that it's in a treasure chest that has a 10% chance of spawning.  A tenth of a percent chance to steal seems a lot less tempting.

On a related note, according to the book, a lot of the big weapons are obtainable from treasure chests.  It looks to me like the treasure chests respawn when you leave an area (like the enemies); does this hold true even for the big fancy items?  That would be pretty crazy.

Anyone still playing FFXII?  I'm just shy of 70 hours in, main party all level 49 and just had my first GAME OVER in the main mission (I've died a number of times while going after way over powered marks or just generally being dumb while exploring, but this is the first actual death during the storyling).  It remains a lot of fun.  Might be the first squeenix rpg in ages that I actually finish, instead of setting it aside at the 75% mark when I realize I need to go grind levels for a few hours to continue.

-Q

Might be the first squeenix rpg in ages that I actually finish, instead of setting it aside at the 75% mark when I realize I need to go grind levels for a few hours to continue.

I find the area to the West of the save crystal in the Feywood to be a great place gain money and experience.  Equip the 2X exp items on the active party and the 2X LP items on the others and just do a circle attacking those mirror knights to get a nice chain going.  Zone twice and comeback in to keep the spawns fresh.  99 windslicer pinions later you have over a hundred thousand Gil and a few levels in 40 minutes.  Plus some mirror armor to boot.

I am confused about loot.  I am supose to hoarde it or sell it?

The series ended with FF6(3).  Can't we just all agree on that?  :-P

Can you keep playing after you finish the main story?

There's a good FAQ about it here. (http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/final_fantasy_xii_neg_level.txt)  I haven't tried it yet, maybe tonight.  Extra levels don't seem to affect stats at all so I'm not sure how much good it does.  I'm in the fifties and each level only gives about 75 extra HP too.

I just found out I can buy bubble belts from the clan broker so all of my characters now have their HP doubled.  There is another, even more expensive item for sale there which reverses the effect of potions, I'm trying to figure out what the advantage of that would be.  Unless it means you can use them as a weapon?  Near the end of the game some of the better spells and weapons are at the old vendors in east and westersands, I think I found telekinesis at the secret vendor in Nabudis.