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Just picked up the ESPN NFL 2K5 rental at Blockbuster (yes, I realize it's kind of silly to spend $7 to rent a $20 game, but I'm a long-time Madden guy).

Anyway, I think I understand why it's only $20. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of changes from last year....aside from roster updates, it is hard to find them, actually.

Not that this is a bad thing, as ESPN 2k4 was a great football game. Just don't come in expecting major changes to FPF or tons of new animations, etc....they don't even have pictures of the incoming rookie class.

Absolutely worth your $20, but I will end up renting Madden before I make a decision.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

First impression is that it's worth exactly 20 bucks. It really lacks a lot of the polish of the Madden games.

It's currently beating my ass.  Of course, I should probably try to learn with better teams than the Chargers and  Jags.  Phillip Rivers throwing 4 interceptions to Adam Archuletta nearly made me weep.

The passing game will take a while to get used to.  It's much more random than Madden's and the quarterbacks seem to go down if someone sneezes on them at a bad angle.

First person footbal is pretty neat.  Not something I'd overly want to play in all of the time.  For running it's pretty nifty.

I think I'm just having a hard time getting used to the differences from Madden.  I've played nothing but Madden since I've owned a SNES.  This will take some getting used to and time will tell..

I didn't play 2k4.

I find ESPN 2k5 to be the best football game I have ever played.  It blows away Madden 2004 in looks, feel, coolness...  hell, I played a cricket game on the dart board I bought for my crib last night.

Obviously Madden 2005 isn't out yet so I can't really compare it to that game.  In all honesty I have no desire to do so anymore.

Ras, use the rt thumbstick to dodge sacks as a QB. Especially good for pocket QBs.

I disagree with the fact that it's the same as last year's version. There are similarities, sure, but there are in every sports franchise from year to year. I do wish they'd have changed more of the onfield dialogue, but that's offset by custom stadium soundtracks. Hearing Pantera rip into "Good Friends and a Bottle of Pills" when I sack the QB is a nice touch. And little things like the last play summary and replay on the playcalling screen really help improve the presentation.

But for more tangible stuff, RB moves have been toned down (rightly so), the running game is tougher this year. To balance that, you can now break some tackles if you have a decent back. My running game is down, partly getting used to the new controls, partly because my buddy Charlie Garner is on the evil, evil Bucs :( Moves in the running game feel better, big backs surge and stiff arm more effectively than style backs.

Since I was getting used to a lot of stuff, I didn't activate Maximum Passing, which really improves the throwing game. I was playing against the Bucs during my practice games, so I expected a lot of INTs, and I got them, the most spectacular was my 5 INTs as the Pats v the Bucs, who got 6 INTs themselves (but I broke B. Johnson's wrist in the second quarter, muhahah)

The changes to the line shifting on defense will take some getting used to, but I think they are for the better overall. Since double-teaming works a lot better thanks to the new tackling animations and physics, being able to shift for a strong double team is nice. Nice improvements there imo. Using the generic "int/bat" button seems to yield a lot more bats than INTs, but that's just a matter of learning the "INT" button...

And there /are/ tons of new animations, I don't know what game you were playing. Everyone but the kicker gave me new animations, and I wasn't watching him too closely. Heck, we even have scoring celebrations, finally. Great for the multiplayer matches imo. I do wish (or haven't yet found) that they had a showboat button like Madden had/has (iirc) for breakaway plays. I don't play much Madden, but I think it was the 2001 version the eqholic had on his PS2, I was showboating an 80-yard reception and my guy broke his ankle :P

I likee. I'd be satisfied if it had cost $50. Still getting used to some new button assignments, but overall it's a nice improvement to an already great title and franchise.

No other football gamers here? Heathens!

I am still playing NCAA 2k5. I will surely pick this up after training camp gets going and my full NFL fever takes a hold.

Friend of mine picked NFL2K5 up and I popped over to his place yesterday to check it out. I'm having a blast with it. Lots of refinements and great overall feel. I had to force myself to stop playing and get some sleep. I can't say that Madden will get my vote any longer. My one gripe is that the kickers were booting it way too far and then my friend mentioned that that can be adjusted to be more realistic so I'm going to tinker with that setting this evening and see if I can up the challenge on the kicking game.

Getting better at this sucker.  Passing is still a pain.  Nothing quite like a 6-16, 186 yard, 1 td, 2 int game being my best so far. But I actually won a game with the craptastic giants.  Go go Tiki Barber; the only place he doesn't seem to fumble is online.  Of course, I've still only played like 5 total games compared to the hundreds I've spent on Madden (and I still never got good at the passing in that game).

The stadium music is a blast. Soooo much better than Madden.  Nothing disappointed me more than having crappy emo bands blaring their music during a football game.

Well some changes in the pre-game and post-game presentation (although not very polished), a nice addition of coverage for trades, injuries and FA signings in the weekly recap....some nice graphics during the game to display pass distribution or rushing tendencies. Then celebrations and music....they're nice additions to the NFL 2k series, just not what I'm used to seeing from most sports titles from one year to the next.

I wish the CPU teams weren't so loose with the blockbuster trades tho....be the time the preseason was done, Dallas had swapped Keyshawn Johnson for Ruben Brown, and traded Flozell Adams to Seattle for a CB.

I also never saw an option to disable the salary cap, or at least disable cap penalties. It's at least nice to have that as an option. My two created players are demanding ridiculous salaries (and nobody will accept a deal that lowers their salary for the first season) and I literally cannot move on without making major changes to my roster to accommodate my 2 $7M created players.

Lots of turnovers in the games, particularly from INTs. Granted, Detroit has a great set of DBs, including a created player at SS, and a created MLB who has nabbed a bunch of picks....but my opponents are picking off plenty of balls as well (I don't think it's just because of Joey Harrington either).

Don't get me wrong...I'm pretty impressed with it as a $20 title. If it had the same price point as Madden, I'd have to go with Madden (just so many more features).....as a bargain title, I'm tempted to buy it just because the pre-purchase rentals of NCAA, ESPN, and Madden will cost me more than it would to purchase ESPN. I rented Madden 2004 and ESPN 2k4 probably 4-5 times last year....mostly during the season, and during the buildup to the draft.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

I hardly notice the presentation changes, mostly fluff I skip past anyway. I'm referring to the way the gameplay itself has been tweaked and improved, from new animations to cover a much wider range of situations, to the improved controls. I wouldn't know anything about player's salaries, because I'm not an accountant. I just like playing the game.

Which is the main difference between the two big franchises, Madden is better for accountants and coaches, and ESPN is better on the field. Based on what Madden fans have told me when this inevitably comes up every year.

I have not gotten 2k5 yet.  I have a medical excuse in that I can barely see out of one eye (Iritis) since it came out.  I am getting better and will pick it up soon no matter what.

Does Rasix just suck (hehe) or  is the passing game really a LOT harder than last year?  As a diehard packer fan I play the packers and primarily pass for my offensive yards (this includes a healthy dose of screens though).  I finish most games with 70-90 percent pass completions in 2k4.  You really just need to get a good feel for who is open.  And remember you can throw hard or lob depending on how you press the button.  As a packer, most of my passes are over the middle types and I am usually drilling them.  I rarely use maximum passing, but it comes in handy when I have to scramble as I can use it to direct a receiver away from the defender.

My main source of incompletions are blocks and tips at the line.  Don't forget that just because you are playing from a high perspective vantage point, you STILL have passing lanes to think about.  Time your passes so you are throwing in the gaps between the blockers.  A good way to train yourself in this is to play first person abit and make yourself pass.   Those passing lanes become very evident.  In first person make your 3-5 step drop and then click the slowmo button (was the left stick click I think in 2k4) and make a quick receiver reed.  You probably should be passing here.  If not, figure out if you need to scramble, hit your dumpoff safety guy, or risk spending more time back there.

I can say right now though, there are a ton of new animations.  I saw a LOT just looking at the demo screen (fucking broken controllers) at our local best buy.  I would have bought it there, but they were sold out.

I probably just suck.  I was never good at passing in Madden either.  I'm very bad at making reads and inevitably throw a jump ball into triple coverage while some other guy is in the endzone playing canasta out of boredom.  Oddly enough, this was always my problem playing QB in real life also, not a bad arm, good scrambling, can't find who's open if they had flashing arrows over their head.  Perhaps my brain just has problems processing all of that information all at once.  Paying attention to the pass rush, checking your lanes and finding who's open is a lot of shit to digest for someone who tries to put his brain on hold while not at work.

On the other hand, I have a really fearsome rushing attack like I always do.  There's something about finding rushing lanes that just seems instinctive for me.  It's not overly difficult and I can pretty much subsist as a north/south runner. Rarely use moves because once Fred Taylor gets beyond the 'backers he can run the fuck over any sissy DB.

I seem to be living up to my Madden standards with having about 320+ total yards a game with my rushing attack counting for about 120-200 yards of it.  Humorously enough after bitching about it, I have my only  clean passing game when I open the regular season:  7-12 for 184 yards and a TD (no ints).  

I am playing with Jacksonville though and a relative unexperienced QB in Leftwitch.  I don't know why I even chose Jax, but I sure as hell won't play my hometown Cards or my favorite Giants (fuck you Eli Manning).

Heh, yeah, sucks when the hometown team is unplayable in video games, huh?  Packers in the 80's.  UGH.  Randy Wright for teh win, or not.  There was one year where Majkowski (can't spell that) had decent stats and we had Sterling Sharpe where it was great fun.  But that was just one year.  Then everyone saw the obvious, that 'Majic' not only sucked but he was made out of glass.  I cry myself to sleep sometimes wanting a time machine to put Brett in his prime and Sterling in his prime on the team at the same time.

The thing I have always sucked at in nfl2k series is pass defense.  I figured it out in 2k3 where if you tackled the back the INSTANT they caught the ball they would 90% of the time drop it.  That tactic no longer works in 2k4 and I assume 2k5.  Actually having to bat the ball or pick it is something I am physically incapable of.

2k4 had this training thing where you could train all the different skills, and you had to pass each to move on to the next.  There was one where you just had to cover a receiver man to man and tip the ball away when thrown.  It must have taken me 30 tries to pull it off.  Anytime I press the tip/int button my guy does whatever move that would be LEAST helpful.  Like chasing a guy, right on his heels, ball coming in, I WANT to jump forward a bit and get my hand up.  I press the bat button and my defender STOPS IN PLACE and jumps up awkwardly nowhere near the ball anymore.  So the play goes for a touchdown, where I would have at least been able to dive and tackle him if not for trying to actually defend something.

I just need some sort of epiphany on WHEN to press the damn button.  I never know, because I can't time it right unless I know what he will do.  The timing difference if he puts his arm up or if he leaps up are very different.

This relegates me to playing man to man on a running back or trying to rush with a lineman.  I suck with linemen too, but can do some decent things vs the run with a linebacker.

The AI passing defense on your team is suspect at best.  They're great at getting interceptions in bunches.  Oddly enough though the linebackers seem to have better hands than the DBs.  But really, they let the recievers get past them deep just way too often.  The safeties tend to go for the big int instead of keeping to their deep assignment which leads to a lot of really long pass plays for the computer.  And yes, everytime I play coverage, the player I'm controlling makes the most inappropriate jump I can think of.

Mostly I play linemen or DE's because I just love smacking the hell out of the QB.  So far I'ved injured Drew Bledsoe and David Carr and knocked Rob Johnson out of the game so far.  I guess getting blasted by Marcus Stroud or Hugh Douglas would hurt a bit (I knocked Bledsoe back about 10 feet in the air on the hit that broke his wrist).  I'm not very good yet at playing a linebacker yet in run defense (I don't evade blocks very well).

I'd play the Cards but man.. Josh McCown? Uggggg.  IMO the Cards completely wasted their pick on Fiztgerald and didn't do enough to draft a better QB.  Maybe Green sees something in the terminally unimpressive McCown but really, he already two decent targets in Boldin and Johnson.  My hate for Eli Manning is supreme. The guy is a little shit that deserves the punishment he'll get from that porous oline he'll be behind.  It sucks not having a your hometown or favorite team being in a playable state, so instead you have to pick interesting yet better developed underdogs to take to the promised land.

If you find your defensive AI lacking you can tweak that pretty easily in the custom difficulty.  There are three different ways you could do that.  Increasing the slider your defensive backfield, lowering his slider for computer wide receivers, lowering the slider for computer quarterback.  I believe those were all sliders in the custom difficulty of 2k4.  Not sure if 2k5 does this differently or not.  It was a good system, I would have left it alone.

I never played any of the stock difficulties because pro was a pansy pushover for me and legends kicked my ass.  I was between the two.  So I went pro and then buffed the computer defense across the board.  Then I heavily buffed the computer run blocking and rushing skills too.  I bumped up his passing skills a little as well, but also raised my teams secondary skills.

With custom sliders I never had a problem with my computer controlled secondary sucking too badly.  They would get burned a few times a game, but hey, that is par for the course as a packer fan.

I ordered this from Amazon (because of a great wedding present) and hopefully should get it by next week. I haven't checked the Morlocks in a week, but I think they are starting an online league for it.

Wasn't this year's offering supposed to have built-in online leagues?  If so, can you do things like trades between the human teams?  Can you do a fantasy football style draft prior to the season and play with those teams?  How do they handle getting everyone together to play by the end of the week, few days, etc.... or do they just do freeform challenges internally for points that then decide who makes the playoffs.

Im a hugh football fan and played all the maddens on my playstation and this was the first sports game i tried on the xbox and ive got to say im pretty damn impressed.....the diffrent things with the computer tracking your tendencies and such is very cool....the favroite plays page is really cool so you dont blow all your time looking for your bread and butter plays....I agree that the passing game is tough but id suggest not trying a major verticle passing game and start with short routes and come back plays until you get your timing down.....my problem is when your QB is on the run that more times then none they would have to plant their feet before they'd through the ball allowing your pursuer to pound your ass into the ground...all in all this is one hell of a bargin for 20$

After returning my 5-day rental today, I just went ahead and bought the damn thing. The profile tendencies and oddly enough the celebrity matchups finally got to me....they were appealing enough that I'd want to rent it again, at which point I figured I'd spend the extra $14 and be done with it.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

I tried to buy the X Box version from the evil Wal Mart, but they had already sold out.  Oh well, Hellboy is out on DVD tomorrow.

Target has it for $15.88 this week if you'd rather get it there.  They're usually competitive with places like Best Buy for new release DVD pricing also.

Sweet! My wife hits Target like once a week, so I will just sneak it onto the list =P

I know where I am going after work today.  I just can't tell my wife or I will end up grocery shopping.

I know most of you folks have the Xbox, and I'm not likely to find PS2 matchups here....but if anyone is playing on the PS2, drop me a PM so we can set up a game and/or league.

Tonight's objective....create a custom playbook so I can replace the shitty Lions playbook. Some decent short patterns, but they have almost nothing that goes deep....unimaginable given their current set of WRs.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

Hrm... maybe I will have to check out the lions book when looking for new short patterns for the packers.  I love the short passing game.  Gives me more time on offense.  I think I am the only person who will break a long play and then run back to get tackled.  Although setting up the 99 yard passing and 99 yard rushing play milestones in 2k4 was very fun.  Always helped playing vs the bengals of course.  I swear they had the worst tackling of all teams in 2k4.

I need to work on my playbook, too. I'm using the raiders, even without Garner, because I like their playbook (and Jerry Rice is almost singlehandedly responsible for me liking football, so I always play his team).

Oh, and I love having Sapp on my line, I've always favored defense over offense. I'd rather have Romo and Garner back, but hey.

Well, I suppose since I'm bored at work I'll write up a mini review.  

Preface: This review is based on stock difficulty for the most part.  I have not played an extensive amount of time in first person football.  

Minor note: I'm not very good at writing reviews, but I hope this will help people decide if this game is for them.

Presentation:

The graphics are sharp. My wife seeing my players line up in their offensive formation, "holy shit, that almost looks real".   This is by far the best looking sports game I've seen yet.  The sideline stuff isn't spectacular, but it isn't bad either.  They did a good job with most players. I have to respect any game that actually bothered to make David Carr look like David Carr.  

The player movement, passing and catching animations, tackles (whoever did these needs a raise), and various other animations are superb.  They feel less cartoony and more organic than Madden ever has. Some of the tackling physics are a bit off (I got tackled from behind at the one after a 50 yard run and somehow went straight sideways instead of into the endzone), but it's a rarity you encounter something too egregious to not be shrugged off as a minor quip.  

The stadiums are great.  The game has all sort of little things that really makes you feel like you're in something greater than just a video game.  The fans buy peanuts, fall asleep when their home team is getting crushed, and support their home team by painting their faces.    

One problem in the presentation stems from the attempt to match up the player's mouths (and the announcers) to the voice acting in the game. It just doesn't work.  It looks like when on the Conan O'Brien show they take a still picture of someone, cut out the mouth, and have the lips of someone else in the mouth hole. Except instead of using that replacement lips' voice, it's dubbed.  Yes, it's that bad.  It's a nice attempt, but I likely wouldn't have added it having seen the final product.

Another minor quip is the lack of pictures for rookies.  It's nothing major and nothing I terribly care about.

The sound is good. The tackles sound like tackles. The play calling sounds like play calling. The snozberries taste like snozberries. Really, I'm not a big sound buff.  It sounds like football.  

The stadiums sound terrific in surround sound.  The anouncing gets a bit repetitive and blatantly inaccurate at times, but at least I don't have to listen to Madden jabber on.  The trash talking before plays, while repetitive, adds a little spice to the game.

The stock music is pretty damn decent. No fucking EMO is a big plus. You can add your own tracks and customize it. Thumbs up.  

Another big part of the presentation is the halftime show and Sports Center highlights. Both well done (minus the mouth stuff) and I enjoy watching both.  Developing this further could really make the ESPN NFL games stand out.  The accuracy and variety of the commentary needs to get a bit better.

Overall: A.  The game looks and sounds good.  A little bit better than Madden IMO.

Gameplay:

So the game's not bad to look at and sounds like football. But how does it play? I'll try to break this down by offense, defence and special teams.  The playcalling is pretty standard, if you've played Madden you probably know how to choose plays by now.  Only real difference is that you get to pick how your down linemen rush (marginal spiffyness).  If you don't know what a 4-3 is or a Dime package, please go pick up NFL Blitz, I hear it's quite good.  

Offense:

Quarterbacks, wide recievers, and 'backs all have a plethora of moves at their disposal.    Quarterbacks can pretty much do anything you'd imagine a QB capable of.  Passing quality really does vary by the quality of the quarterback.  Byron Leftwich makes some really shitty throws, but some random inaccuracy is refreshing to see and gives the game a little added realism.  Quarterbacks are given a great sack avoidance tool (by tapping the right thumbstick in a direction) that can allow you to counter the seemingly porous olines present in this game. Although honestly most of the time I forget it's there, due to the sheer amount of information you need to process while trying to complete a pass.  Passing lanes matter, you'll get a lot of batted balls unless you pay attention to this.  Throwing a poorly advised pass will get you picked off more often than not.

My gripes with the passing game come mostly from the receivers.  They just don't fight for the ball.  If you throw a poor pass, they'll most often just keep running their route instead of adjusting for the ball.   A lot of my pickoffs tend to come from the receivers never opting to play defense on a poorly thrown or ill advised pass.  Also, the passing is somewhat finicky when it comes to routes.  There's a certain point to where your QB will lead the receiver.  Before this point, they'll just throw the ball to the optimal point of the route.  This makes rushed passes a recipe for easy as hell interceptions.  The receivers also have a hard time catching any pass with a lot of zing on it.  Really guys, buy some stickem, it works.  

Of course, the air game has never really been much of a concern of mine.  I have the leagues worst passing offense, and yet I'm #1 in the power rankings.  

The rushing game is where I tend to shine in football games and this game is no different.  I'm currently averaging 7.3 yards per carry (now you see why my passing game is terminally underdeveloped, it's just not needed), mostly due to at least one bust out run per game.  

It's funny when on the first play of the game against the Chiefs, I chose a strong side isolation run and see they've stacked the weak side. "Touchdown", I think to myself.  And sure enough, a hole big enough to driver a Hummer through opens up.  After dropping my shoulder on a haplpess db, I'm off to the races.  

The backs in this game really have a wide variety of moves that all prove useful in game.  Good luck trying to use all of them seemlessly.  You can stutter step, hurdle, juke, stiff arm, spin (great use in this game), ram, and just damn plow through people thanks to the new maximum tackling.  Someone should really tell the computer it's a mistake to try and arm tackle a premier back.  

In order to make things a tad more difficult, I'll probably end up raising the computer tackling and line play.  Maybe I'm too good at running a ground based offense, but really, 7.3 yards per carry as a team is obscene.

Overall: B+ Too many quirks and annoyances for an A.

Defense:

Versatile and fun.  The amount of different plays and how you can run these plays (based on all of the different down lineman rushing patterns) is great.  You can adjust coverages, bring blitzes, shift the linebackers or defensive line before the snap.  Pretty standard stuff.  

Playing a lineman, linebacker or defensive back is pretty standard.  The opposing offensive lines tend to be a tad swiss cheesey with a lot of just plain old blown assignments.  Of course, that gives me at least 1 or 2 joyous moments per game of running at the quarterback unblocked with a 340 lb train of pain.

The computer tends to make pretty good reads while passing on offense but drops a lot of balls to make up for it.  Playing a DB is a tad challenging also as they tend make the most inappropriate leap given the circumstances.  They also tend to drop at least a couple gimmes per game, but if they didn't do this you'd rack up ballpark 7 ints a game.

The new maximum tackling is pretty nifty once you get used to it.  You can either go horizontal for the highlight hit or simply wrap up the ball carrier and take them to the ground.   After some failed blasts on Travis Henry and Priest Holmes resulting in massive gains, and quarterbacks evading some missile shots, I tend to wrap up a lot more than I did initially.  But sometimes you feel the need to plant your helmet it the chest of Drew Bledsoe and it's hard to resist.

If you want a more challenging ride, I'd suggest upping the skills of the computer running backs, receivers, and offensive line.  Especially the running backs, they just have a hard time getting the ground game started.

Overall: A.  I like the D in this game. It's well done and well balanced.

Special teams:

Really, it's kicking the ball. Do a really need to write five paragraphs on the life and times of skinny ex soccer players?

Ok, well, the punting yardage seems a tad inflated.  My kicker's averaging 56 per and that's including a couple shanked kicks.  And I really rarely punt.  So, draw your own conclusions.  

Overall: A.  Find me a game that fucks this part of football up enough to annoy me and you've found a developer that should never touch the genre again.

Franchise management:

You can draft, trade, release, resign, there's salary caps, yadda yadda yadda.  If you're into this it's there.  

No grade, it's just part of the game. Not a reason I'd pick up the game.  If you really enjoy micromanagement, Madden is probably a better game.

Extras:

I'll mention first person football and "The Crib" here.  Really, I haven't played around with either much.  

First person football is great for running the ball.  It really adds a lot of realism and you really get the sense of where the holes are opening up.  The problem with it for me is that I'm bad enough at passing without having my field vision extremely hampered.  Also, it feels a bit claustrophobic and kind of grates on me after a while.  I'll need to experiment with it more to give it more of a fair shake.  

The Crib is mostly fluff.  You have a pad that you can put stuff in purchased from points you earn in the game.  Slightly interesting, not a selling point for the game at this moment.  I've yet to try the celebrity challenges, perhaps those are a bit more interesting than buying a Champ Bailey bobblehead doll.

Overall: B-.  Not the kind of thing that would spur me on to buy the game.  Not like Madden cards were something to write home about either.  

Verdict:

This game is quite worth the money. It's comparable to Madden in most areas not dealing with "when should fan appreciation day be?".   The presentation, graphics and gameplay are all solid.  

It would be refreshing if they could build upon what they have and deliver a more crisp, polished product next year.

While I don't see this series supplanting Madden as king of all football games due to the incredible fanboi population in Maddenland, it's a worthy substitute and comparable if not better football experience.  

Overall: A-. Most of my issues with the game are due to two factors: (1) I suck at passing, (2) bad receivers don't help me not suck at passing.  It's so cheap that if you're even thinking about renting it you might as well just go and buy it for when you get the post season shakes ("need football... need more football.....").

Well, there's my attempt at a game review.  If it's too horrible, just send me  PM and I'll try to unleash something like this again.  I think this rambled on a bit past the "mini review", sorry for that.

That's pretty accurate. I would say the defensive shifting got a bit more of an upgrade than you point out, being able to set blitzes on the fly and assign backs (to double team or whatnot) on the fly is pretty cool.

Heh, have not played 2k5 yet, but I hear the passing is about the same as 2k4 which I have played extensively.  To someone pass oriented (like myself) that passing game is not that hard.  In fact I had more trouble running than passing, mainly due to a suspect run blocking line for the packers.

I had no problems racking up 500 or 600 yards passing with an average of about 15-20 per attempt, pass completion percentages ranging between 70 and 90 percent.  I once even went 30 for 30 but that was incredible dumb luck.  Odds are even doing everything perfect you are only going to get 80% completion due to random bad throws and random bad catches.

The stats on the packer receivers pretty much sucked last year as well, and most of those passes were with some Brett Favre heat on them.  Receivers seem to be reduced in pass catching abilities even with backs simply too close to them.  Once I started spotting the open guy, or more importantly the guy ABOUT to get open and keeping an eye on passing lanes the air game opened wide up.  I don't even really remember the growing pains as I have been playing this series since it started in 2000 on the dreamcast.

So for the airheads out there passing IS possible in this game.  It may be hard to train out of the Madden mindset though.  I don't really know.  I have not played much madden since I started with the Visual Concepts games.

I will probably do an actual counterpoint on this once I get some time into 2k5 (buying tonight if the local stores have it, it was pretty sold out last week here).  This time from a short-mid passing game enthusiast (with the occasional all too tempting long fade route)

Ohh, I bet being a passing guru is all too possible with this game.  I just suck at it.  Like I said (or think I said?) all of the tools are present to run an effective passing attack.  I just can't use them worth a lick.

It's like you not being able to run the ball, and me probably being able to run the wishbone or option if I wanted to.  I'm just not a passer and I struggle horribly in with it.  But give the ball to one of my backs and I'll find a hole where none exists.

But yah, a look at the game with more in depth on the passing would be beneficial. I just can't really do it justice.  My passing attack is mainly vertical off play action to keep the defense honest. And when a team is mainly playing you for the run, it's somewhat hard to get a short passing game going (most everyone tends to hover none to far from the line of scrimmage).

Agreed on all counts.  I actually found in 2k4 that the computer run defense was more devestating to my short passing game than the computer short passing game defense.  It have been a large part of your problem (as you stated).

Have you played online?  What are the online Leagues like?  This is the feature new from last year that has me salivating, but I am afraid of it until I can actually see out of both of my eyes again.

I have yet to try this out.  I think my XBox Live subscription ran out, and I've been too lazy to re-up it.  Of course, I think the game came with one of those XBL trial subscriptions, so maybe I'll check it out before the wife comes back from out of town busines.

Well, I'm usually split down the middle between the pass and rushing. I'm finding it more difficult to pass this year, last year I pretty much just threw bullet passes non-stop. As mentioned, passing lanes seem a lot more important this year, lots more tips at the line (a good thing imo), and I've taken to using the lob pass in a realistic fashion. Overall, even though I find it more difficult, I like the changes to the passing game.

A lot of my passes are dumpoffs or screen passes to the HB (and how I miss Charlie Garner's hands already...). Give me a well-rounded HB and I can dominate, otherwise I am pretty average to sucky ;)

We're still putting the Morlocks online league together, I'll know more about that aspect soon. First trial game I had was fun (but damn I need to get the QB duck stick down!). The features for league play look awesome, can't wait to get it rolling.

Well, I tried to get this game last night after work.  Went to target first, sold out of course, but that was not surprising at 15.99.  So then to Gamestop, sold out.  Then to Best Buy, sold out.  The next gamestore is an EBworld near my work, and I was not going to drive back there with rush hour traffic.  I will try again today.  To cap things off, Blockbuster STILL didn't have Spiderman2 for rental.  They have not had a copy on the shelves since the game released.  But they have 4 rows of ESPN 2k5.  What the fuck?  How many are going to bother renting a 20 dollar game?

I am hoping that the fact that the EBworld just opened recently will help the game be in stock.  I am hoping that fact will override the fact that they are across the street from UCF

Alright, I just figured out how the passing game works in ESPN. After several games of narrow victories and struggling to make every first down, I got it.

I had just beaten Steve-O for my second celebrity win, and was trying to amass some more points to help me get my Trivia Machine in the Crib. I decided to check out the tutorial and scrimmage section to see if I could nab some easy points.

It's simple once you do the tutorial. Don't make your QB drop back....let the game do the backpedal by itself by leaving the stick neutral. The QB will take a 3, 5, 7, or 9 step drop, and then will do a slight bounce as he sets his feet....you want to throw at or just after the bounce. This is typically when your receiver should be making his cut.

Choose your pass based on the type of route and position of the coverage.....you want bullet passes if there is a clear lane to your receiver and outside coverage, while you want a lob if there is anyone in the lane or the DB has inside coverage. You'll also typically wnat lobs for deep passes, like a go route or a deep post...maximum passing will help with leading the receiver a great deal.

So anyhow, the tutorial gave me a quick 200 crib points, and I ended up bringing my QB rating from the 60's to the high 90's in just a few games. Before I was passing about 35-45% and tossing 2-3 INTs a game....now I'm completing about 65-75% of my passes, and haven't thrown a pick in 6 games.

The more I play this way, the more I ***REALLY*** like this passing system, and the level of realism it brings to the table. The passing game, (particularly on short or crossing patterns) is all about timing and reasonable decision-making. As you backpedal, feel the rush, look for coverage, and see who should be open when they break....then deliver the ball to match the timing of the route, and the receiver will usually be open.

Next up on the celebrity chopping block...David Arquette, Jamie Kennedy, and Funkmaster Flex. This mode will be a lot more fun now that I should actually be capable of moving the ball downfield.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

Yeah, I knew about the QB setting his feet, I just suck at passing ;) I worked on rolling out last night, if you let him set his feet it can help bullet passers (like me).

I'm really happy having Sapp in my lineup, now. Domination, Dan, domination. I prefer playing D.

Hmm, what difficulties is everyone playing at?  I really need to take my advice and start messing with the sliders.  Is there anything I could adjust that would reduce the amount of break away runs I get without affecting other aspects of the game too much?  I just racked up 300+ yards on the ground v. the Colts (their tackling is horrendous) and this is with cutting off some of Fred Taylors runs in order to keep his average somewhat sane.  Of course, during a celeb challenge, where they have a godly defense, I wasn't very productive on the ground.  

I worked on my passing a bit yesterday and I'm starting to get better.  You'd be amazed at the little bit of separation you'll get from throwing out a pump fake, especially on deep balls.  The vertical game is just brutal when your running game is feared worse than the plague.  Being somewhat patient in the pocket helps too, I was actually proud of myself when I took a sack instead of throwing a bad ball.

The injuries in this game keep it interesting, they actually happen and can be quite devastating.  Hugh Douglas for me went down for the year but at least I'm not as bad off as the Eagles who lost Owens for 8 games and Dawkins and Westbrook for the year (in one game nonetheless).

I was sticking with Pro before I figured out how to get the passing game going....but I started getting huge blowouts after I got the hang of passing. Now I'm pretty much sticking to All-Pro....it can be fairly challenging, but I still manage to get decent wins most of the time.



Definitely...good to see that DBs will bite on them from time to time.



Don't underestimate the effects of play action either, especially in short yardage situations. 2nd and short is a great time to try a PA pass, with at least one route going deep (i.e. a go, fade or post pattern).



My QB (Joey Harrington) is way too much of a pocket passer to be effective tucking the ball away. I tend to rely quite a bit on outlet passes, like the TE or RBs for a dump-off when I'm coming under heat. Of course, Detroit's West Coast Offense playbook offers a lot more of these than some of the more traditional offenses. I try to never take sacks....but I haven't even looked if there is a way to simply throw the ball away (haven't really needed to yet).



The injuries are pretty brutal, but not too bad compared to RL....after all, the Lions lost two starters last year for the season (CB Chris Cash, RB James Stewart), and then lost rookie WR Charles Rogers for the year after only 6 games....plus, rookie RB Artose Pinner had been recovering from an injury until the final month of the season.

What aggravates me is the trade logic, contract logic, and the CPU's knack for making blockbuster trades that don't make much sense. I watched as Minnesota traded away newly-acquired CB Antoine Winfield for FB Mike Alstott....odd because the Vikes didn't have much behind Winfield, and Alstott was only a slight upgrade over Kleinsasser. MLB Zach Thomas was traded away by the Dolphins in exchange for a DE, and Texans WR Andre Johnson was traded twice in consecutive weeks (so much for being one of the top rookie WRs last year).

Additionally, try restructuring a contract to make cap room....nothin' doin'. You pretty much get stuck with trading away talent when you're over the salary cap, and even then you have to be careful that cap penalties don't end up making it even worse.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

Ohh, my vertical game is pretty much all play action.  Otherwise the computer can just seem to tell when I have no intention of running.  For instance, if I pick a play action play, they'll throw their traditional 8 men in the box at me.  If I pick a standard pass play in the same formation, they hang back in a normal 4-3.  It's a tad aggravating and annoying because it's pretty much cheating.

If it was REALLY cheating it would go 4-3 even on the play action.  So hard to tell what is going on there.  If it is giving you trouble, setup an alternate audible prior to heading to the line (page 8 of the manual under on the fly audibles).

You can throw the ball away with the black button.  Just use caution doing this in the pocket... they may call grounding on you.  I so rarely throw away I am not sure how often it is called.  In 2k4 I forced the computer to do it sometimes, but not sure if I ever got it called on me.

All-Pro is pretty much the standard difficulty, pro being easy mode.  With a little practice it will become too easy though.  If you are like me, jumping to legend will get you crushed like a grape.  So either pick legend and pull back on some sliders or pick all pro and bump some sliders depending on your strength.

Rasix should probably seriously up the CPU devensive tackling to control his out of control run game.  Or try it on legend and see if you can still run circles around them.  For me in 2k4 I had to up the CPU defensive backs and linebackers to bring my passing game into control.  2k5 sounds like it is abit harder off the bat from sky's comments.  On defense I sucked balls at defending in the secondary so I would sometimes up my secondary AI depending on how well I was playing that day.  On all pro the computer could never get a running game going so I would up their run blocking and running back AI.  Eventually I got to the point where I could play a season and go 10-16 or so and would have to struggle in the playoffs to come home with the trophy.  I like knowing I could win it all, but not having a walk in the park to get there.  I didn't play that many full seasons in 2k4, maybe 4 if I recall, and then restarted another 2 or so after Brett Retired and I had no backup worth crap.  Of those 6 I think I got 3 superbowls and 1 divisional championship.  The other two I got kicked out early in the playoffs from some awful play.

I'm still playing at Pro as I learn the game, but I'm about ready to step it up in difficulty now that I'm actually able to pull of plays regularly.

The white button, iirc. That may have been the control assignment from last year, though. Still getting the controls down. It'd help if I actually played the game more, heh.

I mostly play the game for on-the-field action, I don't get into the office stuff, probably why I've always preferred this series over Madden. Too bad they took out the single season option and load us down with franchise stuff just to play out a season. I really have no interest in salary caps or trading or drafts.

I'm not particularly interested in the salary cap or other aspects of contracts either....but franchise doesn't give you much choice if you use created players. I can't even run my first regular season game without fiddling with my roster.

At least with Madden I could turn off the cap, or at least remove cap penalties and just trade or release my overpaid vets anytime I needed to free up some cash.

Where it really gets frustrating though is when you go to sign a Free Agent that your team just picked up IRL, and the CPU demands more than the value of the actual RL contract. Neither franchise has really captured the tendency for aging players to play for peanuts so they can get a shot at winning a championship (e.g. Rod Woodson or Karl Malone), or to play for a favorite coach again (e.g. Tai Streets or several of the former raiders that are flocking to Tampa).

Hopefully the folks at ESPN do another roster update soon....the Lions signed a new starting Guard (5-year vet Solomon Page), and he isn't even in the game at this point.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

The game just came out a week ago or so, isn't demanding a roster update now a little premature?  I don't really expect a roster update until regular season starts so they can update who made the team.  Roster updates now are somewhat pointless IMO.

The Miami Dolphins lost their top RB to retirement, Eddie George went from Tenessee to Dallas, Antowain Smith signed with the Titans, and Detroit landed Page....so they now actually have a decent starting o-line.

Plus, there were other signings prior to the release of the game, like Mikhael Ricks to the Jets or Bill Schroeder to the Bucs.

Seeing as how we're talking maybe a half dozen significant changes to rosters around the league, I figure maybe someone could take 5 minutes to create Page, swap a few players, and delete Ricky Williams.

Of course, bear in mind that I'd like to play in an online league. Doing so forces the players to use the default rosters...and if that's the case, I'd like them to be as accurate as possible.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

I think Dave Wannstedt has been on the phone all week trying to hire someone to do this.

There's supposed to be a patch for XBL today.  Hopefully it will fix a lot of the connectivity and league issues that people have been experiencing.

For instance, I finally figured out that I can't join a game with a newly added friend until we've both shut off our xbox's and then resigned into XBL.  Sometimes I log in and get the online roster validation error.

I'll take patches for online purposes any day, but am most certainly NOT looking forward to the day where online capabilities cause consoles to become as patch required as all PC games.

Finally found a copy of ESPN2k5 last night.  Differences from 2k5 I have noticed:

*Highly improved defensive secondary AI.  Either that or the packers are just rated much higher this year.  They are making very good plays on the ball.

*Awesome new animations especially some of the new gang tackling ones.

*New physics system.  Players have more weight this year.  Changing direction on a run feels more realistic, and on grass the guy will even slide a little on some cuts.  Very cool.

*Love the maximum tackling.  Along with this are all the new tackling sounds which sound much more violent.

*More porous offensive line.  I see people actually getting some headway up the middle on punt plays now.  I have an easier time getting to the QB as well as an easier time getting sacked.  Sweeps fail for me more often as well due to pressure seeping in through where the guards and tackles are pulling.  Maybe the pack line is just rated worse this year, but I can't believe that after how they finished last year and the fact that they are all still together for the 5th year.

*I am way too slow to use the QB evasion moves.  I have always had a hard time seeing the sack coming.  I never watch my qb, just the receivers and vague glances at the line for passing lanes.  I can never tell when a defender is just about to swim free and nail me.  This has always been a problem for me, it is a little worse this year, but not horrible.

*I have to re-invent my running game.  I can still pass for 400 yards without much problem on pro, but running gives me trouble.  I have to relearn that before I move up in difficulty.  Although I think I will strengthen CPU coverage to force myself to practice more on the run.  I just have to find which plays work for me this year.  My favorites last year don't break open like they used to.  Quad formation single back, weakside was a staple of my running game in 2k4.  The lbs are better at avoiding blocks or my blockers are more incompetent this year though.

Last year I found it abit easier to control where my blockers were going by running toward the guy I want blocked and then bumping around them once they were engaged.  This year my blockers seem to do their own thing more and pretty much ignore the guy who actually has the angle on me.  I have to actually start using stiffarm I think.  Green SHOULD be good at that move, but who knows how he is rated.  He is a great blend of power and finesse, but usually he is underrated on power.  As a packer fan I know he usually surprises the hell out of the defenders by often going through not around.

Very happy with the game this year.  But who was the idiot who put that stupid celebrity matchup thing in the game?  Sheesh that is lame.  The game itself is love though.  I just need more practice apparently, heh.

When I first started playing, I figured they'd have actual football players at some point....it appears that it is limited to a handful of (IMO) b-list celebrities, and possibly some ESPN personalities like Berman and Kiper (both have teams named after them, just like the celebs).

So far, I've beaten:
Carmen Electra
Steve-O
David Arquette
Jamie Kennedy
Funkmaster Flex

Carmen and Steve-O gave me a run for my money, which made their comments during the game absolutely infuriating....enough that I was found myself talking shit aloud to my TV (that takes a lot). Then I learned to pass, and made David, Jamie, and Flex into my own personal bitches on the All-Pro difficulty, racking up about 56 points per game. That made it just a bit more satisfying.

I opted for sleep after whooping up on Flex last night, so I don't know if the Crib-phone will ring again or not. We'll see.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

Question, how do you unlock the different crib catalogs?  I can't believe I give a shit, but I do.

Forgot to add in my last post that I started playing at all pro.  Lost 1 of 5 games played (vs fucking carolina.  They had 220 total yards, 160 of which were two big plays I totally blew on defense and then I fumbled twice and threw a few stupid passes for picks) but have yet to get a really good running game going.  It took me awhile in 2k4 to find the run plays that worked well for the packers vs different defensive sets.  I just have to play with it more.  Might be time to experiment with some draw plays and such.  Might help some of my problems with people rushing up the middle.

Time to break out the LOVELY situation mode so I can just grind rushing plays to find good ones.

Lots of theories about those....it could be total wins, total crib points, time played, celebrities beaten....I can't tell.

I was given the choice to unlock one of 3 catalogs after beating David Arquette on All-Pro....but I also got 900 crib points, hit several milestones, and hit 8 hours of playtime in the process.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

Stopped by Target last night and picked this up (they had a surprisingly large number of them still available). Haven't had a chance to play yet, but I  DID take the shrink wrap off last night.

Oh, forgot to mention one of my favorite new additions.  The Xbox only full play replays at the half and conclusion of the game during Berman's rundown.  Those are done really well.  I like watching the biggest plays of the game again, and they do a pretty good job picking which ones to show.  If I am actually playing well I find it amusing how desperate the computer gets to show my opponents having a good play.  TD strike after TD strike for the pack and then they have to show the obligatory 8 yard run the computer got off, hehe.

Although that damn carolina game had more highlights for them than me.  My best play was a bomb with seconds ticking off the clock that fell 10 yards short of the goalline.  Damn you carolina!

Alluvian, I think I mentioned this before, but you can watch a replay of every play of the entire game if you go into gamecast stats (from the post-game menu, naturally) and click on the play in question. I do agree, it's nice watching the cpu pick plays after you have a good game.

Really?  That is very cool.  I will have to check that out.  I was not aware of that.

It would be nice if you could save a whole game to watch later without all the interruptions.

The game shows it has the ability to 'save' every play made in an entire game, so why not incorporate a 'save replay' feature?  Oh well, maybe next year.

I'm not a big football fan really, and know jack shit about it, but since I had store credit to waste, I picked this up. Heh, now I've been playing nothing else for the past week. Playing the Cowboys, getting my ass kicked, but I'm having fun.

I've been tryin' to convince a few pals of mine who play Madden to check it out. No dice. They won't even bother looking at it.

I really want to check out what they've done with the NBA and NHL series now, as I haven't played them since the Dreamcast. Are the newer ones on par with this (gameplay/presentation wise)?

Actually I just checked and you can indeed save any replay you want :)

Whenever you view the replay, either during the game or the end of game play by play way, you click "X" and it gives you all the commands you can do.  Tells you there click down on the left thumbstick and it brings up the save replay screen... damn I hope I don't fill up my harddrive with this.  This is perfect when you wanna rub a good play in your friends face for repeat viewings.

You don't need to press X first, clicking the thumbstick(while in replay mode) is enough. Worked that way at least as far back as 2k3, I have about a hundred replays from the three versions, heh.

I'm trying to get my football (non-gaming!) buddy into 2k5. Every year previously he liked to watch the replays I'd saved. Not sure why he's so scared of playing a football video game, he breathes football...

There's only one reason I want Madden this year, and even then I'll probably just convince one of my Madden fanboy friends to buy it.  The collecter's edition has updated versions of Madden '93, '97, and one other one including present day rosters.  An updated version of '93 would be awesome.

As for the replay saves, I honetly had no idea.  I tried to save some the first night I had the game and never figured it out.  Thanks for the heads up.

Ok. played my first game after a quick glance at the instructions. Of course I had to play First Person mode. Holy living FUCK is it hard! I actually got a dull headache by the end of the game from concentrating so hard. I can see how it could be cool once I get used to it, but DAMN.

I went through all the tutorials, but they all run in 3rd person. I have played 20 different football games over my lifetime (if not more), so 3rd person isn't too hard to figure out. What I need is a first person tutorial- let me play through a quarter or so with the computer looking over my shoulder explaining WTF is going on.

I won't playing this on XBL any time soon (see my tech assistance thread)...it is too much of a change from regular football. I will endeavor to improve, however.

I may be paranoid, but I think after getting ran all over the computer finally adjusted to my playing style.  They started covering the deep routes a lot better and the linebackers seemed to be playing the run a lot more carefully.  I could get my 4-8 yard runs, but I haven't reeled off a 70+ yard run in like 3 or so games. Perhaps it's just the law of averages catching up to me.  Now I have a fully functional short passing game, bizzare. And my sack master Stroud has only recorded one sack in the past 5 games..  Again probably a law of averages thing.

And in true karmic sense the injury bug hit me hard.  To preface this, I give my self one "this is fucking bullshit" reset per season (never to be used in the playoffs) incase I feel like the game is taking unfair advantage of me (3 picks in my first 3 passes, WTF). So, I hit the reset button and on the first hand off, Fred Taylor rips the muscle in his calf and is out for the season. I think he may have ripped both since he got listed twice in the injury summary.  He had already missed one game due to a bicept pull and now he gets to probably win the rushing and touchdown title while only playing in 11 games (1750 and 22 respectively).

I haven't been this impressed with a sports game since the first time I played Madden way back when.  Great game and just seems to be getting better.

I have started experiencing some major problems with the game....particularly with the audio.

The crowd noise and sound effects are almost non-existant, or severely delayed (i.e. hearing the tackle sound as you're lining up for the following play).

The play-by-play, PA announcer, and pre-game, halftime, and post-game seems to skip around randomly, sometimes repeating a comment 10 times in a row, frequently cutting off mid-sentence. The celebrity comments do the same, and lag quite a bit...as if they weren't annoying enough already. The player speech delays or drops out quite a bit, which can be quite a problem.

The part that is truly annoying is that this causes me to play the game almost completely muted....and it still affects my play. I get slowdown, minor hiccups....and worst of all, there are times where I cannot get my offense to snap the ball, resulting in delay of game penalties and/or me burning timeouts early. Aggravating enough that I finally just stopped playing games for the weekend.

I was thinking my PS2 may be the culprit, because I play the shit out of it, and it's a good 2-3 years old. So I grabbed some compressed air, and a maxell dvd cleaning disc. I've probably run the cleaning disc a dozen times, and I used the compressed air to clean out any dust along the fan, vents, or dvd tray. It hasn't improved. Other titles seem to play just fine.

I also figured that perhaps my saved games had somehow been corrupted, or that there were errors associated with created players, or making subtsantial roster changes.....so I reloaded with a different memory card. No improvement.

The game disc itself is as flawless as I have ever seen....no dirt, no fingerprints, no scratches. I polished it up a bit, gave it a quick blast of compressed air.....still flawless, still no improvement.

I was thinking that perhaps it was a software glitch, but then it hit me that my rental copy played perfectly, and problems didn't creep up until after I bought the game and started playing that copy.

Next up for testing, I'll need to take it over to my buddy's house and see if it plays there without any problems. If so, it's a bum PS2, if not, I somehow managed to land a "lemon" copy.

Bring the noise.
Cheers...............

Some bad luck either way DV.  I can't suggest anything other than the idea you already posted.  I have the xbox version and it is still playing fine so far.

I am busy hosing my VIP passer ratings going for some of the odd milestones.  Like the TD pass to 6 different receivers.  Threw a bunch of incomplete passes and ints trying to get my 5th and 6th guys to cath a freaking pass.

Then I think I broke the logical laws of physics by getting a 800 yard rushing game with the falcons when going for the 100 yard with 2 players and 250 yard with vick milestones.  My GOD there are some rollout patterns that the computer just totally blows on 'pro' setting.  I could run for 30 yards every time on this one rollout play.  I tried it again on allpro and it was harder, but still could get a good 10-15 on that play.  I am tempted to see if that cheese works on legends difficulty.

Now I am working on 200 rushing and 100 receiving with one player, and although I could double up and do it with faulk I want to do it with Ahman Green.  In 2k4 this would have been a BREEZE, but in 2k5 green seems to have had his hands amputated.  He won't hold on to SHIT in this game.  Screens are giving me all sorts of problems becuase he keeps dropping bullets, but the lobs just hang forever.  And the blockers don't actually start blocking until AFTER the pass is caught for some reason.  So I can only get much yardage out of H slot where he lines up as a wideout and then hotrouting him over the middle (he can't catch a fade in this game to save his life).  Even then he drops a ton.  Fucking up my VIP passing even more trying to drill it into his chest.

Oh well, at least I figured out the running game.  Seems like Green is a more of a balanced runner this year where last year he was more of a finesse runner (in the games).  He has always been balanced so I am very happy with his running skills.  He is a little guy but strong and can run over people twice his size.  Once I figured out that they gave him credit this year for his power I am able to drop the shoulder and run over defenders and rip through arm tackles as well as juke.

The passing game past the line is about the same as last year with smarter defenders.  Must get the passing game behind the line to work now.  There seems to be a tiny little window where the back is expecting the ball, and you hit him at that second or he will drop it.  I suppose that is realistic.

Damnit, Carmen beat me last night on a last second 60+ yard TD to Randy Moss.  I even set my safety to double him in soft coverage before the play.  It wasn't even a crazy catch or anything as he was about 5 yards ahead of both of my guys who must have gone into retard mode when they decided to run into one another.

Have any of you figured out good defenses that allow for somewhat decent coverage on the TE?  I guess it's not that big of a deal as I'm not going to be playing All Star celeb teams using the Titans with any regularity, but I have to say that it's annoying to cover Owens and Moss only to have Tony G break off a 20 yard reception up the middle of the field.

I have not had much problem with the tight ends with the exception of one game where Shockey got a fuckload of yards off two long plays because I was too retarded to tackle him.

I usually run man coverage from the nickel, 4-3, or dime depending on how many backs/tightends they have in formation.  I find I sometimes get a lot better coverage when I crowd the line with my DBs.  They will play a bump and run type coverage that can mess up the timing of the quick slant routes and leave me more time to bust through the line and get into a possible passing lane.  I suck so bad at defending the pass that I play lineman now most of the time on D.

My playstyle would get me totally butchered vs a decent human being I fear.  I prefer jukes on running, and those are just not effective vs humans for example.  Plus I have been working on ways so I don't horribly telegraph my play calling.  Like forcing myself to run different plays out of the same formations so a human could not tell my play by the formation I picked.  The computer does not figure that out, but a human sure would, and take control of someone in the direction the play is headed.

I think Amazon is finally shipping my game today.

As for the other games in the ESPN series, 2k3 baseball was good. NHL 2k4 was good with three caveats -

1) It was fucking HARD to score on some difficulty settings, and finding the right settings was really hard - I wanted some scoring, but not lighting up the night type of scoring - OTOH, it was a realistic game of hockey when you get it close to right
2) I never could get a good camera setting - either the camera was too close to the ice, obscuring play or it was too far from the ice, making it look closer to Sega Genesis hockey than X-Box. This year's version is supposed to be much improved in that respect, with better fighting.
3) It was buggy - I could never complete a season without the season file getting corrupted and just hanging, injuries were WAY too common, and I mean 2-3 week injuries not just ooboos, and online play was hit or miss (laggy or not).

I don't know about the NBA.

Watch your coverage matchups....if the TE is hurting you, assign a specific DB to cover him. Make sure you have a decent set of Safeties or coverage LBs if you are going to try covering a top receiving TE with a 4-3 or Bear defense.

If you are up late, stick with extra DBs....even in a 2 WR set, I'll drop into nickel or even dime late in the game. Only a very few of the VIPs (coach or celeb) in the game favor run over pass....and teams tend to air it out when they are down late. That's when it's all about probabilities of what the offense might do....odds are you're better off with DBs than LBs when protecting a lead. Use the blitz sparingly too....only if the QB is in a good rhythm and you can't get pressure with your front 4.

OTOH, you should avoid the prevent like the plague in most situations IMO. I only use prevent when the opponent is out of timeouts, and I am trying to run out the clock...then I let them catch it short and in the middle of the field to keep the clock ticking.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

I usually use a Man 2 in most sets against the VIPs specifically because certain ones, like Carmen, don't run at all.  I think she might have run one time the entire game for negative yardage, which is why I just chose to run Nickel/Dime coverages all game.

I've tried assigning an extra DB to the TE but usually I just get burned somewhere else when I do that.  Samari Rolle is a pretty good DB but in single coverage with Moss, Owens, or Holt he tends to get burned pretty easily.  I guess I could always just tune down the difficulty back to Pro in these games, but what's the fun in beating a VIP by 60?  At least I know that I can pretty much score on them at will with McNair/Mason passes.

The realism is incredible...Fred Taylor is the Ming vase of NFL players; very expensive and even more fragile.

As an update, my buddy has been out of town for the last several days, so I popped over to Circuit City and bought a new copy. I figure either way, I'd exchange a bad copy and get another title. Soul Calibur 2 and Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution are both $20 titles that had been tempting.

Anyway, I bring home the new copy....same problem, a bit worse than the first even. So I check the receipt, which says it's same title exchange only....I go back within the hour, swap for yet another copy of ESPN 2k5. I get home, same problem. At least the clerk said that if I had another problem that I'd be able to exchange for another title, so I'll be picking up a $20 fighting game after work this evening.

I figure it's highly unlikely that I could grab 3 "lemon" copies, especially since I purchased from different chains, and I'm not hearing massive outcry about bugs with the audio.

Dollars to doughnuts says it's my PS2....which is amazing since every other title I own plays great. So in the next few days I have to test it out on a different PS2.....which will confirm that I need to snag a new PS2, or that the QA on this version was a part of the $20 price tag. I've eliminated literally every other variable.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

Or you could drop that pile of crap and get an xbox!


;)


(actually I'm tempted to get a PS2 for GTA:SA, I doubt I can wait TWO MORE YEARS for the PC version)

Well, finished my first season. Things went pretty well except that Leftwich threw a gaggle of interceptions.  8th ranked offense and 1st ranked defense (and yet I sent no one to the probowl... ).   Hugh Douglas ended up retiring and that bastard Donovan Darius would only sign for a single year.  My draft really sucked too. I swear, I can never draft worth a shit in these games.

Some gripes:

1) My defense, although the top in the league in scoring, rushing yards and total yards had just horrendous stats.  Not a single probowl player (even though my DT was the sack leader). No one really had a massive amount of tackles.  Would upping the quarter time help this? Or would making them better runners also assist in this?  Right now it's just impossible to get any sort of recognition for my boys with their stat light but effectiveness heavy performance.

2) Do players not get better in franchise mode?  I can't see a single improved player.  You'd think Ricky Williams (the reciever) would at least go up one point from 79 after a thousand yard plus season as a rookie.

3) I just wish so much of this game wasn't documented well.  The manual really really sucks and it seems like there's a lot of options and other crap that I just don't know what it does.

Anyhow, that aside, still having a lot of fun in this game. Great purchase.

It's all about scouting prior to the draft, and getting good position in the draft using trades. It's easy to find the best player at any given position, but it's harder to set up a realistic draft board. Much like the real thing, you will be hard pressed to get quality skill position players or pass rushers after round 1, and impact players are rare after round 2.

So naturally, you want to identify areas of need first, then determine which position to draft first based on availability. Star-caliber skill positions or pass rushers are going to go fast....linemen, TEs, LBs, and Safeties tend to last longer.



Check to see how long the quarters are for simulated games. IIRC, the default is 5 minutes. You want to keep the simulated quarters about 1-2 minutes less than your game if you want comparable stats. 1 if you want to keep it somewhat close, 2 if you're looking for league-leading stats without making it ridiculous.



Weekly preparation seems to dictate player development the most. I usually skip that feature completely.



There is an in-game guide that gives you instructions on just about everything, plus a tutorial for the on-the-field features.



I'd tend to agree, though right now it looks like I may have to spend $150 on a new console to be able to enjoy my $20 football game.

Bring the noise.
Cheers.............

Look on the bright side, it's better than spending $2000 on a new pc to enjoy your $55 game ;)

I didn't find a single mention of the 'Game Plan' option in the instruction book.  I never even noticed it until I was playing one of the top 100 guys on XBL and saw him go into that feature.  I checked it out and it looks like it might do something but I haven't messed with it much.  I'm just glad that it allows me to set specific players to cover specific people.

There's also a 'double player' check box but it never seems to do anything.

Hmm, I guess playing a lot of Sega's franchise makes people assume some knowledge, I like tweaking the game plan menu, mostly to make sure my good backs are covering the good receivers. For double teams, I'm trying to get that down on the defensive shifting.

Haven't had time to play in a week now, busy real life is unfair to gaming and summat.

Okay, I just found yet another issue with this game that I need some help with.  I was forced to take the fucking Ravens in a league because they were the only halfway decent team left.  Jamal Lewis kicks ass but other than him and the defense there really isn't much else to this team.

I played the Titans earlier and did eventually win but I found a few problems with the defensive side of the game :

1) Game Plan screen - I set McAlister to cover Mason and I clicked the double team box.  I wasn't really worried about the double team too much though.  First play of the game he throws a fly to Mason and he's about 10 yards ahead of good 'ol slow as hell Chris.  TD.  I responded with an 80 yd td run with Lewis so all was good in Ravens land.

2) I adjusted to that by making sure I had a couple of safeties in zone coverage.  That's when he began to tear me apart with Eddie.  Come on... I'm a Titans fan and let me tell you, Eddie George gets knocked down by the smallest of DB's in a real game but in this game he can shed the likes of Ray Lewis like he is nothing.  I was expecting another Ray Lewis --> Eddie George KO but it didn't happen.

3) After being 'owned' for a bit by Eddie I finally adjusted and managed to keep Mason decently covered and Eddie down to 3 yards max runs.  That's when McNair started running on me for 30.  So, what did I do?  I spied with Ray Lewis of course!  Unfortunately, this didn't do a fucking thing.  I did it twice and he just sat there staring at the DLs ass's while McNair deftly swept around the end and ran 20 yards down field.  Ray Lewis did not move.  I ended up just controlling him manually.  To hell with it.

To you experienced Sega football players... does LB Adjustments/Spy QB not work properly or did I just have some bad luck there?  It's hard enough to play defense on these games when things are going in your favor much less when the shit doesn't even work as it's supposed to.

I'm sure you think I'm bitching because I lost.  Nah, Jamal ran for 276 yards and I managed to pull out a win thanks to a timely INT.

This alone is why online rosters should be updated more frequently. Eddie George is no longer the RB for the Titans. You should have been pitting Ray Lewis against Antowain Smith, because Eddie is a Cowboy now.

Bring the noise.
Cheers..........

I never tried using any spy QB stuff myself.  If I have a QB running problem I have always just handled that myself.  That said, I suck at D.

Nah, it's all about Chris Brown this year.  Antowain is here as insurance in case Brown gets hurt again or just doesn't live up to expectations.

I never get too fancy on D. Only if they have a go-to reciever will I line a fast guy up against him. I almost always take over the MLB to play, and I watch the backfield myself and catch most sneaks as well as shut down the lion's share of running plays. If the guy doesn't run much, I might switch to Sapp (I play the raiders) and just punish the QB for the entire game (a few roughing the QB penalties are worth it imo).

Roughing the QB is a badge of honor IMO.

Jesus fuck, I hate sports games. That is all, carry on.

Were you the asthmatic skinny kid who always got picked last? =)

Sports games are THE reason I own a console. A PC does most everything better, but sports games really shine on consoles. I think part of it is the ability to play side by side with 3 other players, drink beer and talk copious amounts of shit.

As best demonstrated in the movie Swingers.  'Watch this I'm going to make Gretzky's head bleed.'

God no, I grew up playing sports. No allergies and well built for them (up until a junior year back injury, but that's besides the point). Having grown up playing them on a field OUTSIDE, I find playing a sports game on a console to be just damning to the actual sport.

I play games for escapism - not to pretend I'm an NCAA star or whatever.

For people like me (the skinny - not asthamtic - kid who always got picked last for sports but still loves the games), sports games ARE escapism. I'll never win the World Series, but I can experience the joys and tribulations of trying to run a team to my own little console version of the Series.

And ain't that what gaming is all about?

Ditto. This is the only game that's getting any time on my xbox.

I much prefer the console versions of sports to the real thing.  I can't stand basketball or tennis in real life, watching or playing, but have played many great video game versions of both.  And golf games are even cool.  And I can't describe how much I despise watching or playing golf.

You need to load more beer on the golf cart imo.

Ok, I experimented with doing a fantasy draft.  This had some mixed results.

The good:

I build a fairly good team.  Better than anything the Cards would have been able to pick up.  Oddly enough, I ended up with their 2 starting recievers (Boldin, Fitzgerald) .

I was able to load up on a lot of good, young, talent. Fitzgerald, Roethlesberger(sp), DeAngelo Hall, Tommie Harris, Michael Boulware(sp), and more.  I probably stole about 7-10 first round picks.

I landed Jamal Lewis. The man is a goddamn freight train.

Also, I was able to pick up a lot of Arizona products.  Northcutt, Bruschi, Suggs, Lance Briggs, etc.

The computer can actually draft decently.  Except for some reason they all treat Ray Lewis (and other ILB) like he's got herpes.  I could have probably got him late as the fifth round but I wanted the hometown boy instead.

The bad:

The good corners seem underwhelming.  Champ Bailey seems to get torched just as much as any crappy corner I've ever had.  The fucker has 95 speed too.

Caveat to the young talent: It appears that making a character better is only possible through doing the training prep before a game.  This really doesn't interest me.  So what good is my young talent if it's never going to blossom.  This is where Madden outshines it by a landslide.  Your studs become studs through kicking ass on the field (also through ghey minigames).

Like Madden, everyone fucking drafts their kicker at the same time.  So if you miss out on the beginning of the kicker drafting gravy boat, you're stuck with some really pathetic chumps to choose from.

The draft also creates a ton of just mediocre teams.  There's a lot of parity, but not a lot of dominance by any teams.  File this under "well duh", but it's odd being the only team that will really kill everyone (having a dominant running game plus a frightening secondary makes life tough on people).  

The really, really bad:

Apparently the fantasy draft makes the computer retarded.  They don't really know who to put on kick return duties.  I just played the Rams and they had Jonathan Odgen returning kicks.  The guy weighs as much as 2 return men himself.   They also have a hard time choosing who to start.  They'll bench obivous studs like Ray Lewis and start some other guy because he's a rookie.  So you'll have Peyton riding the pine while they take a gamble on that JP Losman kid.  OHHH K.

If this was something really super duper critical for me, I'd be pissed.  I enjoyed this feature in Madden and they actually pulled it off well.  If they could patch out some of the bugs inherent in the system, that'd be super.

So my wishlist for next year: a less assinine method of building your player skills and a fantasy draft that's a tad less problematic.

Field goals and punts are signs of weakness. Real men go for the 1st down, even on a 4th & 38 from their own 1 yard line.

Kickers in video football are just there for the kickoffs and extra points. Anyone who breaks this rule should be forced to make their team wear pink uniforms.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

Petition ESPN to make a Spelling Bee 2005.

Welcome back. How was the 3 year coma?

Just fine.  It felt like a really long nap.

I drafted Lewis first because I could either pick him or Tomlinson (I always want a premier back) and I thought he'd be better with a sub par line.  I was just amazed at how many tackles a power back like him breaks in this game.   With the new "maximum tackling" or whatever it's called, he brushes off ends, linebackers and safeties like it's a little bit of dirt on his shoulder.  Perhaps I need to up the tackling a bit, dragging Junior Seau for 6 yards before flicking him away seemed a bit excessive.

Finally got my game this weekend, and played it all weekend.

Holy crap, do I suck ass or what? My tackling is awful, and backs like Rickey Williams will just climb over the top of me. Good wideouts will break long pass plays merely because I miss them when trying to come up with a tackle. I need lots of practice at this game.

I tried playing in First Person Mode, but it actually went backwards this year. Sure, it LOOKS better, but it's missing one key ingredient that last year's game had. Last year, in FPF, when the 40-second clock ticked down to 10 seconds and under, a little display would pop up in the helmet showing you the clock. No such luck this year. One of the things I praised the FPF mode last year for was limiting information, but there are some things you just have to have, and the 40-second clock is one of them. I'd be ok with them removing it if I could just see the 40-second clock SOMEWHERE on the field, but I can't. Without it, there's no way to really manage the clock.

However, the other mode is quite fun. I'm already sick of playing Steve-O from Jackass. His "Dream Team" is just the kind of munchkin shit I hate playing against in sports games, as are some of the retards that play online. I played one cockmuncher who took the Dolphins against my Colts. He ran a total of 4 different offensive plays ALL FUCKING GAME. 2 Rickey Williams runs, where he'd use my inferior tackling skills and Williams superior tackle-breaking abilities and just run up and down the field. The other plays were dump-off passes which he would use to break more tackles and run up the score. It was ugly, and only my sense of honor kept me from just dropping the game at half-time.

If you are abit weak on tackling, Charge up the power meter and run into the guy if you don't trust your diving.  Then pound the A button so he does not rip free.

RTFM, or at least in this case, watch the damn training videos. I discovered you can deliver two different types of tackles, instead of the arm tackling I've been trying. Hopefully that will improve my game, as my first league game is sometime this week.

My tackles generally have me in a superman pose with as little contact with the ground as possible.  Most fun when applied to a QB or a receiver right before they lose their grip on the ball.