f13.net

Not sure what to get first...


Bully
BF2142
Ultimate Alliance
Justice Leage Heroes
Destroy All Humans 2
Brigade E5 (JA clone??)
Sid Meier's Railroads!


Next week:

Phantasy Star Universe
Dark Messiah
Splinter Cell: Double Agent (platforms beside the 360)
Guild Wars: Nightfall
Reservoir Dogs (Ok.....maybe not)

Bully PS2 exclusive  :cry:

I've decided to hold off on new games until I build my new pc. BF2142 and Gothic 3 are on the top of the list, I'll probably get both for xmas because the ladyfriend likes BF2 and Gothic 2. Railroads looks cool, I spent a lot of time with the original but RT2 never grabbed my interest. Dark Messiah if it gets good reviews, but also next year. The rest of this year I'll be playing old games I've meant to finish and CoV, maybe some EQ2 if I burn out on CoV. Core 2 Duo pc won't be cheap :P

One gripe about 2142: why is widescreen still a hack, EA? Get with the goddamned times, already. Three years ago when I was hacking 1942 to widescreen I thought that shit would be all cleared up by now.

Way to leave off Contact (DS) (Suda!), Summon Night 2 (GBA) (sequel to the best GBA game...ever), and WTF!

Also, there's a couple PS2 games I'm on the fence about...

Somehow I hadn't heard about this. Is it like an updated Railroad Tycoon or something?

Yea - all in 3d - supposedly a "return to the roots" like Civ 4...

I might check out Railroads later on in the holiday season, but this week is all The Guild 2 for me - it's being put out by Aspyr here in the US. Supposedly basically an updated Europa 1400: The Guild, with more gameplay options, a better politics system, and a better dynasty system.

Once I tire of running a turner's shop in 1400s Leipzig, then I'll see about kickin' it with iron horses.

I haven't touched my GBA in a long time. I *had* a DS, but somehow it went on permanent loan to somebody.

Sorry ;)

I failed to mentioned Dothack GU (looks pretty at least). What other PS2 games are you talking about?


Yoru: Is the Guild 2 good? Looks like nothing but wailing and gnashing of teeth on their boards. [EDIT] Oops. Nevermind. You haven't played it. I should read.

What I'm really trying to figure out is: How am I going to play all of these games?

I think I'll buy Bully and Ultimate Alliance now. By the time I finish them, PSU, FFXII, NWN2, and Nightfall will be out. That's four RPG's to choose from.

Later on in early November, Medieval 2, the new Tony Hawk game, and Guitar Hero 2 will be out. I'll have to juggle those with all of the shit I didn't purchase earlier.

And then December comes, whereby I decide to get a PS3, 360, or a Wii.

Too many choices! This sucks.

I can make a list of the stuff this Fall/Winter if wanted. I've got a pretty good list already on my desktop.

I'd think this one would be easy...  Got an HDTV?  Get a 360.  Regular TV?  Wii.

There, settled.

I have an HDTV, but the Wii is still attractive. I was "fearing change" for awhile there, but I have a feeling that Nintendo is going to provide more memorable experiences than Sony or Microsoft.


That'd be cool.

Then again, you're already doing those weekly news briefs things. Those are good for keeping up (I only made this thread because you didn't do it today  :-)).

The 360 has a monster catalogue coming up. Monster, Monster, Monster.

As for the news brief thing, the Dave Rickey thing and another interview I'm working on took it out of me. I mean TOOK IT OUT OF ME.

How can you say its good in gaming when there is nothing in the game releases topic? Tell me something besides the titles. I think its a desert here. Theres no games worth playing.

I'm not disputing that, but how many of those titles (even if good) are really going to offer a completely new gaming experience? Even great console games of the recent past are fairly conventional.

No doubt I'm going to want to play many 360 and PS3 titles, and no doubt, I'm going to enjoy many of them when I finally get my hands of them......But really, most of them are going to be the same types of games we've been playing for years now -- just with more shiny.

OTOH, when I look at even a basic game like Wii Tennis in action, I get all giddy inside. I want that shit in my house right now. Especially when I start thinking of what more robust games will be like.

The PS3 or 360 seem cool, and look like smarter "investments", but they haven't made me feel "giddy". The Wii is the bigger gamble, but it's in the realm of "things I really don't want to wait for" -- If I don't get one, I'll just get immediately jealous of people who have them.

You know that giddy feeling for new clever looking games. Average time til it goes away, 8 minutes. 2 hours if you're loaded full of beer.

I don't really understand your first question.

This wasn't meant to be a "review" thread. It's merely a release thread.

The titles are self explanatory to most of us, since they're all sequels. But here goes anyways:


Bully = Rockstar. GTA in highschool.

BF2142 = Battlefield 2 in the future.

Ultimate Alliance = Marvel Action RPG. Probably much like the X-Men Legends games.

Justice Leage Heroes = DC Action RPG. Probably a ripoff of the X-Men Legends games.

Destroy All Humans 2 = Destroy All Humans 2

Brigade E5 (JA clone??) = JA clone made by Russians.

Sid Meier's Railroads! = The newest in Sid's Rehash Series (i.e. Railroads! is to Railroad Tycoon as Civ IV is to Civ I as Pirates! is to Pirates!)

Exactly.  Now do this little excercise, Stray.  Take your TV remote, hold it in a relaxed manner while you're sitting down and twitch it ever now and then while aiming it at the screen.  Do this for 5 minutes (don't cheat) and tell me how it feels.

That's why I'm hedging my bets on the Wii.  I'll wait 'til I see some reviews that I trust beyond the "I played it at TGS, and the set up was sort of off, but it could be fun" variety we've all seen.

*covers ears*

La la la la la


Seriously guys. I'm getting giddy in that old school kind of way. Like when I first got my driver's license. First saw someone plug in an electric guitar. Or first saw a Transformer's commercial.

Chances are I'd feel like like an idiot for doing that for 5 minutes at a blank screen.  Also note that doing that with a regular controller would feel just as stupid.  In other words, what the hell is your point exactly?

MEDIEVAL 2 COMING SOON HELL YA.

*cough*

P.S. - Nice Master of the Flying Guillotine, y0.  Ever seen Northern Kicks and Southern Fists?

Sure haven't, and I've seen a lot. Any connection?

I did a search. Says it was from Taiwan. Interesting.

There's a Chinese actor in it though named John Liu. Looked him up on IMDB. This guy has probably the coolest list of screen credits ever:

Snuff Bottle Connection (1977)

The Instant Kung Fu Man (1977)

Wu Tang Magic Kick (1977)

Incredible Kung Fu Mission -- aka Kung Fu Commandos  (1979)

60 Second Assassin (1979)

Ninja vs the CIA -- aka Ninja in the Claws of the CIA -- aka Kung Fu Leung Strikes Emanuelle -- aka Made in China (1982)

My wife is going to greatly dislike our future credit card bills (eep, plus I just spent $60 bucks registering for tennis tournament).  There's just too much shit I absolutely must buy (Bully, NWN2, Medieval 2, Burning Crusade).  Plus there's games that interest me greatly and there's bound to be a few PS2 games that sneak up on me.

No time to play this all either.  Damn.

Edit: Fuck, there's also that game schild (or did Phil review it?) just reviewed.  That looks damn good too.  I love dark rpgs.

Bought Gothic 3 before the weekend. Still one or two patches needed to squash most of the bugs. I'll know more when my ordered memory sticks are here, 1GB are not enough, its extremely choppy with my 2GHz CPU and Radeon X800. Like the levelling system, fighting seems to be easier and the UI is more streamlined (left-click for normal attack, right click for fast attack, various combinations for special attacks).

After this I will end the thread hijack I promise.  Story time.

Northern Kicks and Southern Fists is one of my favorite old school kung fu movies.  My best friend and I saw it originally (twice) on the old "Action Theater" that used to run at noon on Sunday TV when I was oh, say 10-17 years old.  This is where I first saw Master of the Flying G. too BTW.  I think I saw NK&SF at age 15ish, so let's just round that number to 15+ years ago.

Anyway, years go by, and after alot of things happening (good and bad) I end up living with my best friend (again) as a roomate after 3 years of us being out of contact and a failed marriage on his part.  He is a great dude and for my birthday the first year I moved in he actually tracked down and ordered NK&SF over the internet, which was a pretty impressive feat in 1995.  But.  I didn't receive the movie itself (which came on a VHS tape) for another 8 months.  No lie.  I don't know what happened.  My guess is it was in some guy's backpack that died trying to get to the US in a cargo container or something.  My buddy being sneaky didn't even tell me he ordered the damn thing until it actually arrived in the mail after all that time.

The movie is absolutely fantastic.  The production level looks like it was filmed by 4 drunks with 2 cameras.  The martial arts are pretty good, and the final fight is both North and South faction fighters joining forces to slay the ultimate bad dude, whos weapon of choice appeared to be Ben Wa balls (Errr whatever they were, large-ish metal ball bearings) that he would strike people with in some sort of Tiger Claw like grip. 

I'll never forget when my pal first gave me thetape.  The plastic case it came in looked like it had been delivered from Thunderdome, and even the label on the VHS tape itself was attached crooked.  That movie holds a special place in my heart not only for being what it is but for the memories attached to it.  I am fairly sure I still have it, although it might have gotten misplaced after the recent get the fuck out scenario with my ex.  I have some of my most "valuable" VHS tapes stored here in my apartment.  I'll see if I can dig it out for you and maybe get some label info.

Fetal alcohol syndrome, or are you just displaying garden variety stupidity?

On Preorder:

Gothic III
PSU
Buring Lesions
The Fairy EQ2 thingy
FFXII

I just got Tales of the Abyss the other day for PS2.  It's not very good really, except it's combat is a bit unusual and more clever than some.  It's one of those oldie time Japanese rpgs.

List thread? Here's the rest of my October (i.e. What I have preordered and the system it's for). But remember, my gaming habits are all over the goddamn map.

This Week
Contact - DS
Eureka 7 - PS2
Tokobot Plus - PS2
Summon Night 2 - GBA
Bully - PS2
Splinter Cell: Double Agent - 360
WTF - PSP

Next Week
Magical Starsign - DS
Scurge: Hive - DS
Touch Detective - DS
.hack//GU vol. 1 - PS2
Phantasy Star Universe - 360
Konductra - DS

Week after next
Lumines II - PSP
Neverwinter Nights 2 - PC
FFXII - PS2
Power Stone Colllection - PSP
Children of Mana - DS

I sorta like October.

It looks like Ultimate Alliance is next week but I'll be getting it on the 360.

NWN2 is the only other must have for me on this current list, though the IGN review of Bully made it sound interesting since it's not as shallow as I thought it would be.

:cry:

./hack?  Should I have pushed through the first one?

WHY? Did they suddenly unfuck the songlist?

No, you just made a piss poor attempt at an argument.

To give you an idea of what it was like to read something so pointlessly stupid, do this little excercise, Big Gulp.  Take your TV remote, hold it in a relaxed manner while you're sitting down,  shove it straight up your ass and twitch it ever now and then.  Do this for 5 minutes (don't cheat) and tell me how it feels.

Oh right.  I have NWN2 preordered as well.  I did it so long ago, I forgot.  I've also ordered Two Worlds and Project Offset.  Both look pretty good to me but aren't coming out for some time, I think.

Don't forget that the new Gyakuten Saiban/Phoenix Wright DS game comes out in Japan some time in the next few weeks. My local import shop has my copy on preorder. :)

Are people here going to be multiplaying NWN2 together? 

Single player NWN is where I get all of my negative opinions from, and how I'll judge this new game too. If it doesn't do anything for me, then I'll probably discard the rest of the game.

You fucking crackbaby...  The whole post was referring to the Wii's control scheme, and the eventual awkwardness of it.  Obviously you either didn't put 2 and 2 together in that sad little bean of yours, or you don't believe that holding a remote device, even in a relaxed way, while keeping it steadily aimed at screen while every now and then twitching it back and forth is eventually awkward, then actually give it a try.  We'll wait.

I don't think it'll be awkward. Maybe strain inducing in some cases? I don't know.

I once won a contest where I had to sit in an "invisible chair" for a long period of time --- I doubt the Wii will be that bad at least. ;)


To tie this in to another thread, one of things I miss about the arcade is control schemes that encourage physical interactivity.

I also like controls that mimic actions and movements on screen (say, like Fight Night or Moto GP does). The Wii takes it a step further.

I'll play.

Just for the record, when people Making Launch Games for the Wii tell me "the fun" goes away after a few hours and it's tiring as hell, I tend to believe them. If the best version of Zelda weren't a Wii game, there's a fair chance I'd hold off on the system like I did the Cube (I only bought a cube once price had dropped like a rock and modding it was a walk in the park for zee japanese fun).

I want to know why you're buying Lumines 2, damnit.

And I'll most likely fly through the NWN2 campaign solo.  They have proper parties this time!

Because the official Lumines 2 song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPp2fFbooHc) is really cool (read: catchy and tranquil)? I bought Lumines 1 for Nobuchika's Lights... The rest just happened to be awesome.

Hoobastank.

I am sort of worried, like several others here, on how I'll be able to play with the Wiimote.  Could be tiring, could get boring, who knows?  I have thought about it and realized that I have problems with the controllers I currently have.  I don't just mean with games that have assed-up controls like Steambot Chronicles; I mean that after thirty minutes of playing anything, flexing my wrists sounds like someone is murdering Snap, Crackle and Pop.  Lifetime of controller-gripping, yo.

Xbox.  Triggers.  I learned of a new ailment one could acquire in addition to Nintendo Thumb: Xbox Finger.  Prolonged sessions of Ninja Gaiden caused my index finger to go numb.  So did Project Gotham.  I still played the shit out of those games.

Wavebird.  Metroid Prime.  Ouch!  Thank Jesus for pausing.

Keyboard.  Any game with hotkeys you have to over over... let's say GuildWars.  Playing too long?  Pain.  EDIT: I love my Belkin Nostromo N50.

SNES.  Super Metroid.  CRAMPS!  Super Mario World.  MY THUMB IS NUMB IN THAT SPOT... YOU KNOW, THAT SPOT.

NES.  Oh fucking NES controllers.  Huge jump over that damn Atari 5200 controller, though.

The point... ah, yes, I did have one.  I have decided that I'll play a great game even if the controller causes me physical pain.  Because it already does.  Holding the Logitech version of a PS2 for a three-hour session of... hell, Shin Megami Tensei since that's what I'm playing now, isn't totally comfortable, and besides I've grown acclimated to this positioning for, what almost twenty years?  I'll get used to it.  Potato, potato.

On a positive note, I'm hoping that being able to hold my hands apart will help the comfort levels somewhat.  I already hold the controller up when playing; you can't play with that shit in your lap.  Even better, if I lay down then my arm goes numb from the elbow down.

Yeg, wavebird pain? Xbox trigger pain? Super Nintendo thumb, ok, but only from Street Fighter. And only the left thumb. You're just being a puss. :)

Street Fighter used to give me those sharp, needle-like pains on the tips of my thumbs.

X-Box Ninja Gaiden could be kind of exhausting at times, I guess.

MMO hotkeying is the worst for me. That just fucks with all my tendons, from the top of my hand, underneath in the thumb area, all the way up to my forearm. Having my hands in that semi-floating overhand "claw" position for anything other than a short period of time is not good.

MMO hotkeying bores me before it hurts me.

I would break mice before mice would break me with Diablo 2.

You play any of the WWF games on the SNES and tell me your thumbs will not be sore.


Same deal, but not from mass-clicking.  Usually the breaking would occur without warning in one quick swinging motion after some time with our "friends" across the pond.  Winduforce kekekela!!11

Why would I play WWF games on the SNES?

Multitap, man.  There was still group-fun to be had before four controller ports became the norm(mostly).  Super Bomberman was always at our side when our thumbs got sore, though.

I'm not saying I'm not a pussy, or old, but numbness of thumbtips is part of gaming for me.  The Xbox finger numbness is new to me and particular to the design; I don't have such trouble with the PS2-style shoulder buttons.  Actually, after having an Xbox for so long, I find that I am compensating for it unconsciously when I can.  Adaptation.  I still block all the time in Ninja Gaiden, but I find I shift my finger around.

As for the Wavebird, I am specifically talking about holding the charge in Metroid; the shoulder buttons on the WB are my favorites.  I guess holding this applies to the SNES as well, but seems like there were plenty of opportunities for me to keep one of the buttons depressed most of the time... details fuzzy.  Otherwise it's just how I hold my hands close together; I don't really have good wrists.

Dreamcast had the best shoulder buttons. Keke.

I meant to pick up a DC, but I was sick that week.

Lumines Live.  Tonight. (http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2006/10/17/Maintenance-update-and-arcade-preview.aspx)

News. Frontpage. (http://www.f13.net)

And is it not part of a good week in gaming?  And do I give a shit about the front page?

Rhetorical questions at 11.

I made my excuse about DS titles earlier. ;)

Many apologies.

[edit]

Oops. Replace "DS" with "Handheld".

Huge release this week for us euros, football manager 2007. Can I take southend to the Champions League Final inside 4 years again  8-).

Get a bit older. You'll start to get the same kinds of things.

I can make it through about 3 games of FIFA 07 lately before my knuckles start to get the crackles. By the 4th game, my left thumb is numb.

I think the Wii controllers will likely take about a month or more of soreness to get a sweet spot. But shit, it'll almost be exercise.

Get a bit older?

I'm sticking with pussy here. I've got the back of a 60 year old but the goddamn hands of a lumberjack.

So did I til I hit 34.

The only game to cause me pain has been Fight Night. I tend to rub my thumbs raw if I play alot of that game. It's because i get real intense and press real hard on the controllers, espically if I get knocked down. This still takes a good 4 hours or so to have an effect on me.

How is Sid Meiers Railroads! more like Railroad Tycoon then Railroad Tycoon II or whatever it's up to now?

How was Civ IV more like Civ I than it was like Civ III or II? 

I don't know what's that all about. Civ IV is as much about new improvements than it is about reverting back to old formulas. The interface is more streamlined, unit info is more readily available right on the game maps, the pace is faster, online play is worth doing now...

If it's anything like the original, it's in the "Keep it simple, stupid" approach.

..

I haven't played Railroads yet. It's on Direct2Drive now. I'm considering just getting it from there.

Did anyone else pick up Splinter Cell: DA? I can't put it down, they really made it harder and grittier. It's not as open ended as I'd like it to be, but I can't complain. The multiplayer is intense too. I just might make a thread just for multiplayer.

I put 2 and 2 together, I just think it's a completely non-sensical argument.  Even assuming you have a controller the same general size and weight of the Wii controller, it's going to feel awkward because you're just sitting there flicking the remote.  If I pick up one of my PS2 controllers and just press buttons for 5 minutes it's going to feel awkward and tedious because I don't have a game to actually distract me from it.  As it is I'm generally the kind of person who moves around a lot when playing (leaning when I'm turning in a car game and that kind of thing).  From what I've seen of the Wii's controller being used, it doesn't require a hell of a lot more movement than I already make when playing a game.  Anyone who things they're going to wear themselves out with the thing either needs to exercise more or stop playing games for 6-7 hours at a time.  Hell, a lot of the people here should be more worried about carpal tunnel syndrome from too much time at the computer.

Velorath, I've been told by people making Wii games that the wiimote is tiring.

Just sayin.'

Well, the home tends to lack the "leaning" feature of motorcycle games, and the pedalling of the bike games, but I've seen as accessories:

Skate/Snowboard
Bongos (Donkey Konga)
Innumerable Steering Wheels
Dance mats
Guitar Hero Gee-tars
The EyeToy and it's many jumping-round, wave-yo'-hands-in-tha-air type games
That game "Buzz" has gameshow-type buzzers
Arcade Joysticks are of course available.
Light Guns and their games.
Singstar and it's clones/sequels/whatever can Karaoke your heart out on the Mic.


So there's plenty of ways to get interactive, arcade-style in the comfort of your own home. Most or at least many of those accessories come as pack-ins for the games that use them, for pretty much standard game retail, too.


The Wii-mote seems more like an extension of the Eye-toy's motion sensing, with more control and accuracy on one hand but lacking the ability to use a second hand or feet, on the other, erm, hand.

So in other words, you haven't even tried what I suggested.  Pick up whichever remote you like, the lightest one you've got, and do what I suggested.

Look, I'm a pretty big dude.  I can lift a hell of a lot and I'm in great shape, so this isn't a matter of strength or endurance, it's a matter of human physiology.  Try my little experiment for a full 5 minutes, and tell me it doesn't get really tiring and really annoying extremely quickly.  Until then, you're just talking out your ass.

It occured to me when I read this that game programmers are not the primary target audience for the Wii.  Game programmers are, I think, generally of the traditional hardcore demographic.  The next thought I had was that game designers and developers working on the Wii are going to be tasked with making a lot of games that they probably would not want to play themselves.  I don't play a lot of non-gamer games, the bulk being children's edutainment stuff, but they are generally of inferior quality when compared to "real" games.  Well, those not produced by EA, that is.  The question is, is it because of the disconnect between implementors and the product, or because kids don't write angry letters when JumpStart First Grade crashes and eats their display settings?

As for being tiring, I can definitely see that (http://us.wii.com/tvcm_gallery.jsp?11).  Still looks lke it could be fun.

Sure, it can be tiring. I'm not surprised, it'll be working muscles most GAMERS don't work for long periods of time normally.

Give it 1 month, and it won't be an issue. Either the lardass no-exercise gamer will have grown a muscle besides his wank hand, or he'll collapse from a nacho artery blockage. Problem solved.

Seriously, the sandy vaginas talking about how tiring a Wiimote is going to be are astounding me. It's going to be no different than learning to play with DDR mats, Guitar Hero controllers or fucking bongos.

Without any sort of context around that (how many hours they're playing and what kind of games for example) that doesn't mean a lot to me.

Honestly, I'd much rather just try one of the demo units whenever they get to stores for 5 minutes or longer if possible and get an indication of how it actually feels (not to mention if the games are fun).

I've been told by Jesus that if I masturbate I'm going to hell. Shits to that, eh?

I really don't get why you're all arguing this. This really comes down to if you really want to do it. If you feel like you won't like to nudge your hand every which way to play games, you're obviously going to get sick of a Wiimote in 10 minutes or less. For those playing cause they think it's a good idea, well, they're obviously not going to care that they have to move their hand around. Probably won't notice after awhile either.

Wow, that was insulting.

I don't want to play Zelda for hours with a Guitar Hero controller. Games are for gaming, not working your wanking muscles (not sure why you think it'll work other muscles). The exercise angle is stupid, the whole thing is stupid. But that's ok, I just won't buy one, I'm certainly not sandy-crotched over it like I am with those fucking 2142 ads.

You shouldn't wank anyway.  It's dirty.

(http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000FDTHFQ.01-ANI9Y4RP0HQDJ._SCMZZZZZZZ_V55533061_.jpg)


It doesn't have to be dirty!

You're welcome.

My insult was aimed at the people complaining that it would be tiring. They don't know that it will be any more than I know it won't be. But it sure sounds like folks wanting to find a reason not to like it. Just like I look for things not to like about the PS3 because I am wholly offended by the price tag. Thankfully, Sony keeps making it easy to find.

I'll just have to wait and see.

Guild 2 is finally in stores. My EB had one and only one copy (which I dutifully snatched up). First inspection reveals no Starforce bullshit, so installation is a go.

I'll probably write something up on it, although I really don't expect anyone but myself to go for medieval-themed business dynasty simulations. :P

Is there a Demo? I have never played any Guild games, though the premise seems interesting enough.

I find most simulation games to be amusing, no matter the subject matter. I'm just a bit wary about this one. Supposedly there's a lot of bugs.

Either way, don't wait too long for that writeup.  :-)

Definitely buggy; I played through the tutorial (took about an hour) and there's certainly quite a few annoying bugs - for example, during one tutorial level you have to chat with four people. The spoken dialog finishes long before the lipsyncing animation completes, but the conversation doesn't "end" until that animation is done, so you sit there for several seconds watching someone flap their jaw silently.

The camera controls are a bit wonky (the mousewheel zoom isn't smooth at all!) and the new interface is... not so hot. There's a number of bizarre and unintuitive things in it.

I'm hoping the simulation itself is deep and interesting enough to stay engrossed through the sharp learning curve. In the two seasons I managed to play (yay time compression), the raw materials market appears to have gone into chronic shortage. It's not fun to sit around waiting for fresh raw materials to arrive with little else to do.

First impressions based on playing the tutorial -- it's Railroad Tycoon 3.25 with shinier graphics, dumbed down slightly (in ways both good and bad), none of the PopTop developers (Phil Steinmeyer having left a while ago), and the de rigeur crappy crappy Firaxis UI.

Any thoughts on what is up with the dumbing down of the game mechanics in these types of games? Alpha Centauri had the best--user customizable units, and since then things have gotten "easier", and way the hell more boring.

Probably to try and make games more accessible to the "non-hardcore" gamers.

I like the new Firaxis UI's.

Not sure if I'm not "hardcore" or not. Probably not, at least when it comes to Civ.

Alright I played through the first scenario (I lost) and my second impression is that train routing/track management is a fricking pain in the ass and the game doesn't really offer any improvements over RT3 except for the graphics and some minor UI improvements which are poorly implemented (and major UI regressions in other areas). If you already have RT3 or RT2 (my favorite of the PopTop series) I don't see any reason to get this game. If you really really have to get it, you might want to wait for the patch.

Here are just some of the UI issues with SMR:

Scrolling with the mouse is way too slow, even with the setting on max. Yes you can speed up the scrolling by holding down the Shift key but then it's like turbo scroll. The keyboard scrolling is faster for some inexplicable reason but I don't like reaching across with my left hand to scroll with the arrow keys cause that bothers my carpal tunnel and yes you can remap the keyboard but why couldn't they just set the damn mouse scroll speed properly?

You can rotate your view with the middle mouse buttton but it just stops when you reach a certain point in both directions which forces you to reverse direction to get to the angle you wanted if you are too far in one direction. Who TF decided that was a good idea?

You can't zoom out far enough to see a good chunk of the map at once. Basically you are always zoomed into the map and the only direction you can zoom is to get in closer. And you have to spin your mouse wheel a bazillion times just to zoom in and out the very small amount that you can.

The towns and cities all have exaggerated building heights now, which is cool looking but that means all sorts of stuff is obscured behind them like, you know, your tracks and stations. So you are trying to lay out a track through a city and you can't see where it's going exactly so you have to somehow rotate the view with the middle mouse button while holding the left mouse button down. And there doesn't seem to be an undo feature so if you let go of the left mouse button accidentally you better hope you have a recent save.

As you mouse over things you get nifty popups showing you things like what raw materials something produces or requires to produce other materials. Unfortunately it's very sensitive about the "hot spot" that will trigger the popup and you spend much of your time hunting for the proper spot. And then when it does pop up much of the time it's obscured by other objects being displayed so you have to try and rotate the view so you can actually read the information in the popup but then you bump up against the rotation limitation and have to spin the view all the way in the other direction just to see what the frick it's saying.

Deleting track sections is incredibly painful. It's backwards from every other building game out there that uses a bulldozer-style tool in that it makes you select the track segment first and then hit the delete icon and on top of that in my first game 99% of the time I got a "you can't delete this section of track" error when trying to delete portions of my track and no there were not any trains sitting on those sections.


Some of the useful UI improvements they made are that buildings will move out of the way of your tracks so you don't have to worry about the placement of stations like in the PopTop games. Also there's no station resource "radius". There's just a green circle you have to put your track inside to be able to gather whatever resources. That also makes it a lot easier to place things.

There's all sorts of helpful popups now (when they aren't obscured) showing you resource information like what cities are demanding certain resources and the like.

Track laying is perhaps a little too user-friendly now. It'll by default create bridges, tunnels, flatten terrain and create elevated tracks for you when you stretch out a track. You can override some of that using keyboard commands which you often want to do because all the "help" it's giving you is costing you extra money but it's somewhat of a pain to do.

Edit: fixed typos

Sid Meier's Railroads! is just broken:

(http://www.pandadesigns.com/f13/SMRailroads_0001_sm.jpg)

Despite having a nice little "triangle" south of Phoenix the game will not let me route a train from the vineyards to the west to Phoenix. Argh!

Not to derail but I'd pay in blood and intestines for a copy of the Alien Crossfire expansion for Alpha Centauri. Probably one of my dumbest moves ever was buying it for my ex and not myself.

I actually put that back to Civ2. Colonization made such great improvements to the core Civ game, yet it was all ignored making Civ2 (which was arguably the best Civ, but could've been better). For instance, the entire building of structures you could actuall assign citizens to, having specialist citizens rather than happy, content, unhappy simplicity. Having the school to teach citizen skills, being able to use indians or train them as citizens, missions and missionaries. Refining buildings, a glimmer of a great trading sim buried in there...such wasted potential, I feel Brian Reynolds was the man, not Sid. Alpha Centauri and Colonization were my two favorites...and Reynolds had to go RTS #@%*.
I had the abandonware version (Firaxis: if you don't want people to "pirate" it, SELL IT I WANT TO BUY IT and not at $85 fucking dollars (http://www.amazon.com/Sid-Meiers-Alpha-Centauri-Expansion/dp/B00000K3Q2/sr=8-3/qid=1161701907/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/102-8653668-0511355?ie=UTF8&s=videogames)), but it was buggy as shit and would crash after maybe twenty turns.

I'm bummed they made another railroad game instead of SMAC or Colonization.

I also dislike the new UI for the reasons Trippy lists. Finding an comfortable zoom/tilt in Civ4 just doesn't seem possible. I hate the way the scale is all off, too. Moving to 3d took away a lot of the boardgame feel and now the scale of units/cities/environment just looks silly.

Same here. I did see on the Firaxis site that they are considering a sequel to Alpha Centauri. And sadly, I considered ponying up the $85. The amount of play I got out of the original alone would make it worth it but it just hurts to much to lay down that kind of cash for an expansion. I'm sort of hoping EA will put out some kind of "Sid Meier's Greatest" collection that will include it. Maybe in the Super Duper Civilizations Universe Collection.

There was a laptop collection that I boneheadedly didn't buy at walmart or some retail outlet like that. I think it had SMAX.

Oops, I just did a search and now that's going for $120 (originally $20). WTF.

http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Arts-The-Laptop-Collection/dp/B0000CE1L7

I'm in the same boat on that laptop collection. I read somewhere that Alien Crossfire is now one of the rarest of these kinds of software titles.

I should've emailed Sid. RR Tycoon is going for $10 on Amazon. RRT2 is $6. RRT3 is $12. Alien Crossfire is $85 and the collection with both is $120.

Guess which one you should've remade, dipshit?  :x

Hell, Colonization is going for $27 for crissakes. I'd be more interested in a SimGolf remake than the stuff he's been doing (pirates and railroads).

I'm disappointed but not surprised that the Guild 2 game is buggy.  The first was also, which made me wistful.  I don't like being wistful, so I think I'll pass on the Guild 2.

I was also disappointed that Colonization got dropped more or less as a venture.  It had a great deal of potential, some terrific ideas but it missed in some vital way for me.  Still, I was looking forward to something being made from it that was better.

The screenshots of SM: Railroads (or whatever it's called) reminds me a bit of that old RR simulation made by Maxis? I think called A-Train.  I really liked it, but it also missed in the simulation end of things, just didn't quite have it down.  Again I was disappointed that nothing came of it.

The bells and whistles of graphics and sound only take me so far, but if the game itself is flawed, then that's the deal breaker.  Why do people spend so damned much on bells and whistles and not so much on gameplay?

I intend to do a real article, but the gist of it is... pass on it. The new interface is the sux, the gameplay has been reformed into some grotesque RPG-sim hybrid, and there's a lot of systems that just came out poorly (politics/favor is completely broken - in the bad sense). Oh, and it's also really buggy.

One particularly amusing bug I call "The Gout". About half of a person's facial polygons puff out, stop animating, and get a ghasty white pallor, so it looks kind of like they have a big bloated face staring forward while their body, scalp and neck gently bob up and down around it.

Sounds avatar worthy.