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Someone at Jeux France stole a bunch of images and did a comparison (http://jeux-france.com/blog125108_Blakguy) of screenshots of various games.  Not at all scientific, it compares Mario Sunshine to Mario Galaxy (my left nut has better graphics than Sunshine), and an Xbox game to a Wii game.  Still, it's somewhat interesting.  Madden looks better on Wii, in these shots anyway.

If you can accept the GC for what it is, I don't think GC games look all that bad at all. Plenty of PS/Xbox games look worse.

Also, I don't get the Sunshine hate...then again, I never played it.

I don't really hate Sunshine, but it and Warrior Within are the two worst-looking Cube games I am aware of.  Now, Paper Mario looks better than most PS2 RPGs, and the Metroid Prime titles are gorgeous.

Most of what I'm noticing a better anti-aliasing, which is a good thing. But really, the GC's graphics were fine if the gameplay was good. See RE4.

No matter how you put it, lack of HD support is bad.

Unless you don't give a shit about HDTV's. Then it doesn't matter. 2-3 years down the line when it really does matter, they'll release a new console anyway.

The HD market is growing every day. Can Nintendo really afford to sort of hamstring their console in to SD only? I guess we will find out. I honestly have no idea what goes in to making the system output an HD signal, but I think they should have. Also, do you honestly think Nintendo will release another console in 2 years? No way.

With the cost of HD sets dropping litterly daily, it has the chance of being a real factor in the console war. Not a huge factor, but it will lose sales for Nintendo.

I think those are sales that Nintendo is not really going for anyway. From the outset, they've said that they're not going to play the cold war of graphics and new shiney. If a person is not going to buy a Wii simply because it doesn't have HD output, then that's a person that is not in Nintendo's target demographic. Lack of HD is not That big of a deal; it certainly shouldn't stop you from being able to play the game.

Also, what is the proliferation of HD in Japan? I'm thinking that it's different than the US.

I could certainly see Nintendo releasing another console in 3 years. And even if they wait 5 more years, as Strazos said, the HD market is not the Wii market. Wii is targeting people who DON'T play games like games were oxygen, they are targeting the "casual" gamer. Casual gamers include kids, and kids don't have HD TV's in their bedrooms. I don't know about the HD penetration in Japan, but I'm guessing it isn't much different than the US.

Im not asking for incredible graphics, its just that on a big screen TV, SD looks like shit. So all the HD people are actually going to have worse graphics from the small screen people.

I will still buy one, but for me, its the only real blemish on what could be a great console. Only time will tell what the outcome is though.

I think H and S made great points, but as we all know I am Nintendo's mindless thrall, so here we go.

You know, we can see where things are going by looking at the extant Cube games.  Paper Mario and Metroid Prime are some great examples, and so is RE4 even, in working with your hardware and in doing something other than chasing that stupid photorealism carrot.  You can say that RE4 would have looked better if it had been designed for the Xbox, but that's pretty much what all the PC gamers are saying about Oblivion and Thief being developed for the Xbox.  Of course your platform determines the end-product; I don't see how hamstringing graphics is bad since it should allow/force developers to spend more time on non-graphics things, and I can always get a 360 if I just can't stand it.

You can see aliasing in Paper Mario.  The thing is that it is mitigated a great deal by the design.  If you have seen it, you know what the design is.  It's unfortunate that many a "hardcore" gamer will dismiss the game because of the art direction; a mistake if you ask me since Paper Mario improves on the console RPG formula in many ways.  I quoted "hardcore" because, in my opinion, you aren't hardcore about gaming if you ignore great games for dumb reasons; I'm not here to examine anyone's Gamer Union Card, though, I'm just saying that there's more to gaming than highres graphics.  Obviously.  There are also a lot of people out there who are "meh" on graphics; my wife and I purposely force the Tivo to record from the HD channels when possible, but first off that basically is limited to The Office, and secondly it's effort and we are both tech-saavy.  I think most normal people are more interested in just getting CSI rather than dicking around with anything complicated to get it in HD.

Me, I have a HDTV and it really enhances the flaws you would not otherwise see in a SD picture (FFVII looks rough in places).  The people that design the games need to understand this sort of thing and perhaps go with the sixteen pack of crayons instead of the sixty-four pack.  For me, the Wii isn't likely to change a lot for me: if I want a sharp-looking game to play in the living-room, I'm going to want to use the Xbox.  I sacrifice 1080i and some fidelity when I have to play a game on the Cube, but the Nintendo-exclusives still look good because they are exclusives and are tuned to the Cube.  If I cannot get it anywhere else, I have to run it on Ye Olde PS2e.  It's never my first choice, for several reasons.

So what am I actually playing now?  A shitload of PS2 games.  This is because I'm a game whore first and a graphics whore second.  I can't play Rule of Rose on Xbox or Cube, even if it wshould look more awesome (If it had been developed for Xbox! But why does Cthulu look so crappy?).  I can't play Shin Megami Tensei on Xbox or Cube.  If I only had the Xbox/360, I'd just be dead inside right now.  I don't care how good Dead Rising is, it isn't "I don't ever need to play Disgaea/GoW/FFXII" good.

It really is that simple: Nintendo is going for the non-gamer and the game-whore, and the people who played the NES when they were little but are now intimidated by the button-bristling controllers of all the other consoles (I know one of these)... ignoring the sweat-bead whores and people who want more buttons.  Mathematically, if they get the word out, they cannot fail as long as they are able to reach those ex-gamers and non-gamers.  It's not that Nintendo doesn't want Halotards to buy a Wii, it's just that they know they will have to compete with the other two consoles to win those customers.  Put that way, yes, Nintendo is going to screw up royally when it comes to usurping the userbase of MS and Sony.  Pretty sure they don't care.  Sometimes that kid who took his toys and went home was actually a lot happier for having done that.


This is understandable, as I mentioned I am playing FFVII on a HD TV via component cables on the PS2.  Banding.  The Wii will do 480p at 16:9, however, which is what the non-gimped Cubes do at most, and the PS2 and Xbox also, and a DVD player.  480p is just dandy with me.  When I get sick of living in the ghetto of 480p, I can trot out and get a 360 + King Kong.

Funny, I just found this on /.

Yeah, I can see that, but I agree with Haem that N will not have any sort of problem releasing a Wii Deux in perhaps 3 years.  The DS Lite did not take long to roll out, after all.  Then again, the DS Lite was $129 instead of $249.  Would a Wii 2 that supported HD cost under $250 in 2009?  Hard to say, maybe someone else could speculate.

Also of note is the fact that the Wii will have an upgradeable OS.  I don't believe that this would magically allow HD, but there is some ability to improve things down the road.

> I quoted "hardcore" because, in my opinion, you aren't hardcore about gaming if you ignore great games for dumb reasons;

Well said.

I hope you've picked up Okami, btw.  Tragically, I'm PS2-less atm and have to play at a friend's, but that game is fucking art.

I'll wait and see on the Wii.  I know the picture will look like ass because of the lack of HD, so that's not exactly tripping my trigger.  My Gamecube may still have some great games on it, but it never gets turned on because the picture sucks.  This sounds like it'll be more of the same.  Add in the possibility of a gimmicky, fun at first but eventually annoying control scheme and I'll hold off til I see some legitimate reviews and not 30 minutes with a Nintendo rep. reporting.

Technically, the Wii will have ED not SD resolution, and the difference is huge.  480p on my 42 inch plasma looks damn good, and arguably just as good as HD from 8-10 feet away (where my recliner is).  Sure, on a larger screen the difference becomes more noticable, but SD is shite compared to 480p.  I just wanted to clear that up.

Nintendo claims they will be making money on every box sold which implies they spent a minimal amount on the hardware R&D excluding the controllers which is supported by the rumored specs that are floating around (i.e. the Wii is just a slightly souped up GC). That means they are in good position to release a real next gen console system (something to compete with the PS3 and Xbox 360 hardware-wise) sooner rather than later since they presumably didn't sink a ton of money into the development of the Wii hardware. Two years is probably too soon but like Haemish said three years is plausible. The Xbox was replaced in four years by the Xbox 360 as a point of comparison.

Another possibly I thought of reading the Gamsutra that the /. quote came from is that Nintendo is waiting out the HD disk format wars. Let the other two companies take the horrific losses, and when/if one comes out ahead (coinciding nicely with a majority of consumers acquiring an HDTV), they'll license the winning tech, slap some HD on a new system, and REALLY blow people away.

Or maybe they are just deciding this as they go :)

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

It would not shock me if the Wii was a red herring.

You have great games but you don't play them because they look bad on your TV?

It sounds like your great TV is actually a negative. It prevents you from playing great games - wonderful purchase. I sure wish I had a TV so awesome that it looked like crap and I never turned it on.

I have a TV that makes Nintendo look like they don't even give a shit.

The kicker is that they really don't.

It's on the list.  The list is long.


You are a funny guy.  You might even be right.  Have you seen that grin on Miyamoto's face?  I think Iwata is wearing it now.  Wii Gloves and Nerf Wiimotes are part of their elaborate scheme.  Even if Nov 19 just gets me a Nelson Muntz impersonation from Miyamoto, it's been a fun ride.


I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but I find this somewhat hard to believe.  Mine looks great, not as great as a nice Xbox game of course, but better than a PS2 game (they are all using prog-scan on component cables).  Then again maybe you have one of those non-progressive-scan Cubes?  Composite cables?  The component cables were only available from Nintendo directly, I believe, and naturally they won't help you if you have a gimped Cube.  I can't actually remember when N stopped producing Cubes with prog-scan but "2003" comes to mind.  I figure if you have a HDTV then you are probably on top of the cable situation, so ignore me if you already know all that.

Anyway, the way I see it is that I should be getting, worst case, Cube graphics but with 16:9 support... that's an upgrade.

Cube already had 16x9 and 480p support on nearly every game I played.

The Wii is barely an upgrade.

Regarding graphics:  the GameBoy has dominated the handheld market for years now, despite inferior graphics even after upgrades.  Ever since the Sega handheld came out like ten years ago, GB has always been way behind in the graphics department but has kept up because of fun games, low cost, and a large library.  Long battery life helped too.  All in all, it demonstrates that graphics are not the only path to success. 

Certainly not having graphics as good as the competition isn't a strength, but Nintendo has been good about making up for that by competing in other areas.  In the case of the Wii it looks to be cost and the unique controller, which might be pretty fun if it works as well as people are saying.  Given that I still dust off Master of Magic about once a year, I'm plenty interested in a company that's looking to put gameplay over graphics.  They still have to deliver of course, but it's a philosophy I'm behind.

Hmm maybe it did have 16:9...?  If it had more games for it, I might be able to remember.  Now I'm going to have to check my software boxes; I really don't remember 16:9, just prog-scan icons.  Got a title in mind?

Yeah, it's barely an upgrade if you just consider graphics and computing power.  Have you been reading my posts?  The thing that will kill this is the same thing that killed the Cube: lack of games, customer base notwithstanding.  The Wii might have an army of aunts and uncles playing it, but if the library goes to shit then sales follow.  The horsepower doesn't factor heavily into the business plan because the only people who care about that are the people who already have a 360 or a gaming PC.  You don't need a lot of shiney to run Brain Age or WarioWare.

Another thing that could kill this is if it isn't as easy to use as a DVD player.  I got tired of trying to get the Friend Code shit set up for Wild World rather quickly, and I expect Aunt Bertha would give up even faster than me.  The non-hardcore gamer is going to want to just pop in a game and go; they would also want to be able to pause/suspend a game at any time.  That is just an example of what Nintendo needs to work on in order to capture the non-360 and non-PS3 market.

Hooray for the Intertron!

http://www.hdtvarcade.com/hdtvforum/index.php?autocom=custom&page=gamecubeac

I suppose I need to make sure that Eternal Darkness actually will do 480p at 16:9, because that would be awesome.

I should get a cable for my cube, I didn't realize Eternal Darkness was 16:9. If only Wind Waker was :(

You should get a cable anyway, for the children.  Xbox too.  Putting one on my PS2 was almost like buying a new console; San Andreas looked awesome.  Unfortunately the Cube doesn't have an optical sound port like the other two.

I've had the xbox component cable since I bought the hdtv. X-Men Legends in 720p is cool (though I got Legends 2 for the PC).

Windwaker is and so is Eternal Darkness. Nearly every first and second party title is 480p 16x9.

Not kidding.

GC graphics are far better than PS2, which is very pixelly.

Too bad the PS2 has an exponential number of better games.

Indeed. I've missed a bunch of good stuff because of that shitbox.

Yeah I'm sure you know what you are talking about.  I am going to have to check up on Wind Waker; maybe there is some problem with my setup.  Based on my investigations, it looks like the GC should just do widescreen if you enable prog-scan but I don't entirely trust that it is doing so.  You'd think I would be able to tell on visual inspection, but I spent way too long looking at stretched images.  I vastly prefer the toggle found on the PS2 and Xbox.  Too bad the Xbox prog-scan is inconsistent.

Metroid Prime does not, I think; the morph ball looked more like a morph... uh, man, I forget what the name of that shape is.  I wish I could trust the icons on the software boxes.  Fucking Nintendo.  I'm hopeful that this mess will be more clear on Wii, but you never know.

I'm unmothballing Eternal Darkness simply because I played it before I got the component cable.  Should be extra giggity this time.


QFT.  I think the sales of PS2s will outstrip the PS3 until well after March 07, and not necessarily due to shortages.  You can write that shit down.

Eternal Darkness in 480p is nice.  I wish I remembered to save more often.