f13.net

So, I want to go to CES again and my boss isn't unsympathetic, but it seems I'm late (!!) and the good flights and hotels are fully booked - so what's left is too expensive. Or the companys usual travelagent is too incompetent.
They suggest a trip with KLM at almost $1500 that eats up most of my budget and a stay at HILTON GARDEN INN LAS VEGAS at $169 a night (which is o.k.).

If I use a ticketfinder I can do the ticket at $880, 1000 or 1100 by flying Delta, United Airlines or Nortwest but I have never flown an US airline before - are they that bad?

Using hotels.com  (http://dk.hotels.com/index.jsp?newSort=true&pageName=hotSearch&destinationID=4fded4ff-af4a-41b7-976b-bd5bd436f135&passThrough=true&validateCity=true&cid=70998&postalCode=&locale=da_DK&showPopUpMap=false&validateDates=true&propertyType=A&city=Las+Vegas&departureMonth=0&showPopUp=true&mode=2&sortMethod=4&numberOfRooms=1&currencyCode=DKK&arrivalDay=5&departureDay=12&additionalDataString=vrBookingSource%7ChotNetList%7C%7CadditionalData1%7Cdksearch&stateProvince=Nv&country=Us&arrivalMonth=0&room-0-adult-total=1&streetAddress=&submitted=true&sortMethod=2&landmarkDestinationID=a119f333-4d76-b49e-ffd2-0e88b7908000) there's Imperial Palace, Tuscanny Suites, Clarion Hotel, Hooters, The Orleans and Gold Coast Hotel which are all 3 stars and within reasonable distance of the Las Vegas Convention Center.
Do any of you have any other suggestion on a cheap hotel near the Strip (the convention is split between several locations with free shuttles in between) or any experience with the hotels I mention?

On another note, it's fucking annoying that our magazine is $800.000 above budget this year  and I still have to jump through hoops to save a few hundred bucks to make this trip possible... oh well, CEBIT  (http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/igp/img/inst.jpg) is just as fun (http://www.casinosguide.net/las_vegas/photo1_las_vegas.jpg).

You can try these guys:

http://www.cheapovegas.com/index.php

Hanzii,

You're going during CES. One of the biggest expos in the world. In one of the most expensive cities in the world.

You want to know how to go to Vegas cheap? Go a week after the show and watch a webcast during the show.

I am interested in it though, what the hell is it about CES that makes you want to fly halfway around the world to see? I've been to CES. It's most certainly not worth any sort of money.

I disagree (obviously).
Seeing a webcats or reading x tech-sites during and after the show means that I let other journalists and random people distill what is important new products. And I'd like to go to Vegas anytime - CES is just a good excuse to get someone else to pay for it.
I could see almost as much during CEBIT for 1/3 the price, but Hannover just doesn't draw me as much.

And I'm looking to save some money, not go completely on the cheap (note that I didn't list any motels). $2000+ is still a bit of money to me, perhaps not to you.

If you want a REALLY cheap hotel try the Sahara. I stayed there for 2 nights during my last trip before switching to TheHotel. I think Sahara ran me $69/night on the weekends which is pretty much ridiculously cheap. The other midweek option is to look into Alladin. They were running a $49/night midweek special for a while.

The Sahara is only 1 or 2 monorail stops to the convention center so the location is fine. The monorail will also take you to the other end of the strip when you want to go. Just get one of the unlimited passes when you are there.

Also, when booking the flight keep in mind that staying a single weekend night will usually save you up to 20% on the ticket cost. So play with the dates a bit outside the conference to see if you can catch a deal.

Rent a cheap car and sleep in it.

IP is pretty dumpy, but it is in a GREAT location in the center of the Strip.

By the way...

Where the fack are you coming from that tickets are $800? I just did a quick check and from Cleveland they're around $300.

You one of those European folk that are running around here?

Yeah, he is a Euro. Belgian? That sounds right.

I've flown United a few times, but only on North American flights. United isn't that bad for one of the cheaper airlines, the seats aren't all that comfortable though. For cheaper flights, Alaska is my preference, with United second.

I'll second that Imperial Palace is dumpy, but in a great location on the strip. I haven't actually stayed at any of ones you list, but I did stay at the Vista Palm resort accross from the Hardrock once (late booking for a convention), about a mile off the strip. If I survived that for five nights, you should be able to survive anything you are looking at.

The Flamingo ain't as dumpy and IP and is pretty resonable price wise so I'd look into that.  Right across the street from Caesars too. 

I stayed at the Sahara last time. Not fancy, but not dumpy either and excellent located for the convention (free shuttle buses and only a few stops down on the monorail) - trouble is that at that time prices jumped more than $100 in the conventiion weekend, which was fine, but now they jump from around $59 to $233 in that particular weekend, which is a bit much (especially for The Sahara).
Also a fun place to stay since I'm one of those Euros (Danish, not Belgian) - the whole NASCAR theme was very foreign to me and I played blackjack with some of the trashier "talent" in town for the porn convention.

$1500 is KLM going Copenhagen - Amsterdam - Minneapolis - Las Vegas.
Last year I flew Virgin Atlantic Copenhagen - London - Las Vegas for only $1000 and VA beats KLM as an airline, so that sucks too...

If only I can get the budget in order, I might have my gambling purse sorted by covering the porn convention for the Danish edition of FHM (old classmate is the editor) and doing a travelstory for the tabloid I used to work at.

Delta is fine. I fly them to Vegas all the time and have flown it to England.  In fact, I pretty much fly Delta exclusively since SLC is their Western hub.

As stated, IP isn't a great place, but nice location. The Orleans is probably the best of that lot you listed but it is way over on the other side of the freeway. It's not really a long way away from the strip, but it isn't walking distance. Cab or shuttle would be required.  If you want to stay someplace nicer and don't mind driving you might want to look down around Henderson or Boulder Station. A lot of new, nice megaresorts are opening down around there and likely will have decent room rates. It will be a 30-45 minute drive down to the strip though (so car rental/gas may eat up any savings on room).  My value place to stay when down there on the Strip is the Monte Carlo so you might was to give it a look (although I doubt you'll find a great rate for it during CES).

Okay, my turn.

I'm going in mid-November with a couple friends.  Due to outstanding efforts on the part of one of my friends, and some fortunate ties of blood, we'll be staying in a $1500 room at the Wynn for free.  So that's pretty fucking awesome.

But aside from that, I've got a few days and, due to the free hotel, a pretty decent gambling budget.  I've been checking out what I can figuring out where's a good place to gamble, but I thought I'd get it directly from you guys as well.  For poker I hear that the Venetian is pretty nice.  I'll only be playing limit, because I'm not that good and I'm not fucking insane.  Is there a better option, preferably near the Wynn?  Who offers good Blackjack odds?

Also, this'll be my first time in Vegas as a single guy.  So in the event that we all decide to hit up bars/clubs, which places do you guys prefer?  We are 3 early/mid 20s guys, and one of us has a charming Irish accent and deeply offensive Irish humor that seems to work on women.

Are you getting a haircut before you go?

I've been considering cutting my hair pretty short.

But I haven't decided for certain.

So maybe.

Never played at the Venitian. Doesn't the Wynn have a room?

The MGM poker room is new and supposed to be nice and isn't very far from the Wynn if my memory serves as to where the Wynn is located.   The best low-limit, get drunk and goof off games are at the Luxor or the Excalibur (my pref. is the Luxor).  If you want a mellow, low-limit game in a nice but small room where you can get decent comp beers I'd go with the Monte Carlo room.   I'd avoid the grind houses like the Bellagio or the Mirage.   As for where to find the womens I hear the Hard Rock and The Palm are the hip joints but that is just hearsay as I am old and busted (and married) so haven't made the attempt in that area in well over a decade.

EDIT: Oh, and the answer to every "where do they have good odds/rules for ___________" in Vegas is always "downtown" or "the crappy places on the strip like the Imperial Palace."  The nice places on the Strip all have the worst rules/odds in Vegas and the places that offer the good odds/rules do so to bring people into their dives.

The Wynn is near Caeser's Palace, opposite side of the Strip from the Luxor or Excal.

The Wynn does have a poker room, but from what I was reading the Venetian's is nicer with better comps, and it's right next door anyhow.

Since we really don't have a hell of a lot of time there, I don't know if we'll get much off-strip time, so maybe I just won't bother with those games.  <shrug> We'll see how I feel about it when there.

Much appreciated.

The Bellagio is the place to play for poker, at least for the high rollers. Dunno how many tables they have for low limit poker. Mirage may be worth checking out as well (and it's closer to the Wynn). Baby's at the Hard Rock used to be one of the happening place for college kids and 20somethings. I don't know how its replacement -- Body English -- compares.

Edit: added college kids

NO!  Not the hair!  :cry:

See, I get guys telling me all the time I should cut it.  And whenever I say I'm thinking about it, girls react like that.

Frankly, I don't care that much what guys think of my hair.

Just remember that if you cut it, you may have a hard time growing it back out in the future. I tried growing my hair long again a few years ago, but the growth just stalled in the short mullet-range.

Those guys are jealous.  They know all the girls go crazy for it.  Of course they tell you to cut it.

I was at the Imperial Palace last month, and while it may be "dumpy" relative to other fancy schmancy places, it's clean, has good food, a decent casino, and DEALERTAINERS!  And as others have stated, it's in a kick ass location.  When I think of "dumpy" I think of shitwater motels in south georgia or west tennessee with cigarette burns in the carpet, pubes on the toilet, and cum stained bed covers.  The IP is rated 3 stars I believe, besides, how much time do you actually spend in your room in Vegas?

Actually I initially grew it out in high school, then cut it short because the girl I was dating at the time saw a picture of me with short hair and practically made love to the photo, then grew it back out once I got to college and started dating ANOTHER girl who knew me in high school and loved the long hair.

So I'm fairly sure I could grow it out again.  Healthy heads of hair run in my family.

I don't think I ever get guys telling me I should cut my hair.  I do get the occasional lesbian, but I put their opinions in the same category that straight guys' would go into.

I haven't played there (but did stop to check it out), but most people in the know love the Wynn poker room...I would check that out first. Venetian has a nice room, but their air freshener smell is cloying. Bellagio is decent but crowded. For low limit, MGM has a great room- fishies galore, and they run Sit and Go tourneys constantly if you want to try a tourney without a big time commitment.

For good odds on house advantage games, play at IP or Casino Royale on the Strip. Casino Royale offers 100x odds on craps, which you can't beat with a stick. Their cocktail waitresses are also so grateful for a tip that if you take care of them a couple of times, they will hand you a new beer every time they go by whether you ordered one or not =) Beware of the sitdown craps table though- time can fly, and when you stand up and realize that you are FAR DRUNKER than you had realized the stagger back to your hotel can be an adventure. At least the Wynn is marginally closer than NYNY, which where I had to walk last time  :-D

The walkway over the road between the Wynn and the rest of the strip should be finished by now, so that will make access a lot easier. The Wynn and Venetian are both really hard to find your way out of, especially if you have been indulging, so make sure to drop some bread crumbs or something.

DO NOT MISS the Wynn buffet. Absolutely SPECTACULAR. I am drooling just thinking about it. It will run north of $30, but it is worth every penny. Go for lunch to get a good mix of breakfast and lunch/dinner food. Don't make any plans for a couple of hours after you eat too- you are gonna need a nap  :lol:

Speaking of tipping those travelling waitresses...what is the proper amount?

Ya know, just for future reference.

I usually give them a $1 chip for each drink. At Casino Royale (where the drinks are smaller), they will often wave off a tip if they see you a lot...every other round is probably plenty for them after the first couple.

Thanks guys. I'm forwarding this stuff to my friends so we're all on the same page.

A guy I work with stayed at a nice room in the Wynn last year. Its supposed to be really quite nice, but be wary. He claimed they actually have sensors on things in the room. If you pick up that chocolate bar on top the minifridge, you just bought it for $8.

Most of the top places are like that now to prevent you from using the convenience of the minibar and then restocking it before they can nail you for the big money.

If you really want Vegas on the cheap, at least Vegas being anywhere on the strip, the only way to go is the Casino Royale.  The casino itself is a craphole, dark and small and very cigarette-flavored, but the rooms are dirt cheap and surprisingly nice, the place is nicely situated on the strip, and the hotel is right next to some of the cheapest eats on the strip.  Plus the waitresses aren't shy about handing out drinks, for those who're into that sort of thing; just be sure you don't get smashed and wake up broke the next morning.

If you don't want McDonalds and Dennys for all of your breakfasts, go to Harrah's next door for their buffet breakfast; it's more expensive but the food is fantastic.

Now, this is the trick, the important detail: get a gambler card from the Royale.  It's free.  Stick it into a video poker machine, park your ass in front of said machine, and put a thousand bucks into it.  That seems like a ton of money, I know, but the machines have something like a 97% return rate, so you're only going to be losing 30-50 bucks on it, statistically-speaking.  After you've gambled a grand on that card, the Royale will start mailing you vouchers for free nights in their rooms, usually 2-3 nights a month, depending on whether it's a busy season month or not.  If you plan your trip to take place on the end of a month, you can get a solid week of free hotel stay.  (Weekdays, if you use your coupon for weekend nights you have to pay $25 a night.)

Plus, if you play during triple-point hours, playing a thousand bucks on their video machine is likely to get you around $15 in cash and another $30 in comps for stuff like free food from the Outback up on the second floor.

During my trip, I lost about $35 on the poker machines, got $45 in cash and comps from the gambler card, and now have free hotel nights for the next time in town.  Viva Las Vegas!

[Edit: Oh, and beware the slots, especially those bizarro video slots that have like 30 play lines on them.  I've watched those things strip hundreds of dollars off of people in no time flat.  At least in a card game the player can make choices to optimize their odds, there isn't even an illusion of fairness in a slot machine.]

[Edit Edit: Oh yeah, and do yourself a favor by having dinner some night at the Stratosphere.  It is an astoundingly good restaurant with an awesome view over Vegas, and the price is more than reasonable for the quality of the food ($25ish/person).]

Used to work for Minibar USA, they installed the minibars in the Wynn.  They have the Autoclassic 60L which has those sensors, but you can defeat them by placing a piece of cardboard under the drink and leaving it there (although they can see you opened the door, but there are no weight sensors).

I also have the gold refilling key, although most places don't opt for the Autoclassics since they are expensive.

This is a misapplication of the return rate.  If you find a full pay machine and play it correctly you can actually get this closer to 99.5 percent, but I digress.

The return rate isn't on your buy-in. It is on your total amount wagered.  So say you play 100 hands an hour at 5 bucks a throw, your "total amount wagered" for that hour is 500 bucks. So the return rate would suggest that you will lose 3% of that or 15 bucks. So it all depends on how long you play, not how much you put in.  However, video poker is a HIGH VARIANCE game so that 3% is over a very long series of plays (as in hundreds of thousands of throws, royals are how you make up much of the house advantage and they have a probablity of 0.000025, so you can go months without hitting one). Your hour could have a much higher loss rate.  Playing that hour at 5 bucks a throw could easily put you down 100 bucks or even 200 and if you have a bad run 300.   I've had runs like that.  Now, I'm not saying don't play it as video poker is one of the better house advantage games if you can find a full pay machine.  FINDING A FULL PAY MACHINE IS CRITICAL AND NOT ALWAYS EASY.  Otherwise you are giving up a much larger house edge than you need to.  So, if you can find a full pay machine, don't mind dealing with the large swings of variance that can happen and can play it correctly, the comps can make up for the relatively small house advantage. Just don't think you can pop it in there and roll for an hour or 45 minutes and be guaranteed any sort of direct return or calculated loss that will offset the benefits you will be getting.

For info on what is full pay for various games and good strategy, I recommend here:

http://wizardofodds.com/videopoker

Not saying that it couldn't work out the way it was described, but there are no guarantees.

I don't plan to use any machines.  We've got plenty of indian casinos around here with tons of machines and like 4 live dealers.  I'm going to play with real people, because that's more fun.

Make sure to get all the player's club cards and get rated if you are playing...every liitle bit helps, and you can get some decent offers in the mail.

You're correct, a bad streak on a machine can strip away most of your money, it's the long haul that has things average out to the listed percentage.  What I didn't mention was that I was playing the nickel machine, which takes 1-5 credits, so I played that thousand dollars in 5-25 cent increments.  I played a LOT of hands, which smoothed out the runs of good and bad luck.  Going and tossing that thousand bucks into one of the $1-5 machines has the potential to eat your money before you hit a high-paying hand to get your cash back, so don't do that.

[Edit: And I looked around for a full-pay poker machine while I was there, never found one in any of the casinos.  Best I found was 97-ish percent return.]

I'd call it good there.

I wouldn't be suprised if full pay machiens are basically nonexistent in the big places in Vegas. It's why I only play VP in the podunct border town of Wendover.  They have a great full pay progressive quarter jacks or better machine where the royal routinely gets up between 1150 and 1250. I've actually hit the royal twice this year on it.

I'm surprised you got that good of comp attention playing a nickel machine. If that is the case I would indeed jump all over that.

Yeah, the Royale only has two measurements for comps, money in and money out.  Normal comp points come from money out, every dollar of winnings from a slot machine (every two dollars from a poker machine) gets 1 point, IIRC, which is then subject to double and triple point hours.  Once you have a thousand or more points, you can turn them in for cash at a 1 point=1 cent ratio.  On top of the points for cash is the points for comps, a separate tally that you can redeem for gift certificates to the restaurants attached to the hotel.  The free hotel rooms for club members are granted on money in, and requires a thousand dollars into the machines in any increment just so long as you reach a thousand bucks within a certain amount of time (a month? not sure).

It's a sweet deal compared to the shitty comp cards everyone else offers, which had crap like, 'At 2000 points, you get $5 off the buffet!'

My shoddy Vegas memoirs are here. (http://www.geocities.com/kitsune/vegas.htm)

Had something fun happen in a live game tonight.  Was in the small blind with TJ of hearts. Usual 7 people to see the flop with no raising. I should have raised, but meh. Anyways, flop comes down AKQ of hearts. Never flopped a royal before. No action unforunately but I did get the hundred dollar bonus.  I wish someone would have caught aces full so I would have picked up 5 grand. On top that that I absolutely ran over the game with monster cards. Played for all of 3 hours and had rockets three times, KK, QQ, and JJ on top of my royal with only one of those (the QQ) getting run down and even in that hand I had a set. Broke an eight month streek of rags and suckouts in that game. 

Very nice.  I've never even seen anyone flop a royal.

I've flopped one, and turned one in my poker career. Both happened in the last four months!

Nice! FWIW, I doubt I would raise from the SB after that many limpers with that hand...being out of position with what is probably going to be a drawing hand sucks. Of course, if I knew I would flop a royal I might be tempted to toss in a raise  :evil: I think I have had 2 royals in my life, both online. One was at the end of a hideous session, and I refused to add more money to my stack. I ran out of money to raise with on the turn, which cost me a shitload of money. Never again will I sit at a table with less than 12 big bets in my stack. Lesson learned  :cry:

I broke a long losing streak (haven't had a winning session since I left Vegas over Memorial Day!) on Saturday. Only won a few pots, but they were monsters. Had a guy next to call a bet on the river with Ax suited with a board of KK5xx (not important) when the guy who bet turned over his K on the turn to try to scare out the draws. He called with A high when he KNEW the other guy had 3 of a kind! I couldn't wait to get into pots with him, but unfortunately he folded to most of my preflop raises. Nice loose passive table with one kid who liked to raise with junk. He got reraised and isolated by a certain someone a lot  :-D

God, I so don't understand what anyone is talking about.  I feel as if I've fallen into a huge vat of foreign people.

The only reason to raise there is pure pot equity as that hand plays absolutely great against multiple opponents. You will also flop either a monster draw or squat so it is easy to play too, regardless of position. This game was weird though.  One minute everyone was cold-calling raises with bupkis and the next they would fold around. You would get called down when your hand was obvious and they were going to lose, people would call to the river and then fold (what appeared to be) decent hands but call with crap hands to "keep you honest" or everyone would all of a sudden fold to any flop bet.  Was really tough to get a read.  Knowing how fluky it was (and how strong I was playing as people were starting to get the idea that I was betting so much because I had a monster every time, BECAUSE I DID!) I might have taken the pot with a preflop raise and missed out on the hand altogether. 

I'm glad your bad run ended. I was on a similar run and they suck.

Yeah, it really depends on your read on the table. In most games I play, a raise there from the SB would just double the size of the pot and provide everyone with pot odds to run me down when I flop top two. Not that I am bitter.

No you are correct. Maybe, and only maybe, would a raise in LP be alright. In EP, no.