f13.net

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=370696
(Topic is locked already).

Cliff notes: BoB dredged up a months-old (very) tasteless sig which was used then by a GoonSwarm member on GS's own private boards, and used it as an excuse to declare war.
Goons replied "OK, we apologise and we've booted that goon from the corp"
BoB: "We don't care, we're still going to wipe you out"
Goons: "Fuck you then - he's rehired, we've unmuzzled our members on EVE-O...and bring it!"

EVE-O sheeple: "ZOMG, Goons r teh ebil!"
EVE-O smart people: "Wait, aren't BoB using the memory of a dead-IRL player as an excuse to wage war in a game? Isn't that a little...disgusting in itself?"

And then drama happens. There was an even better 15-page thread, but it got deleted/moved for cleanup.  :sad_panda:

Saw a lot of this on the boards before it got locked and bah-leeted. 

Pure bullshit on BoB's part - using something that happened months ago as an excuse to go to war with an emerging power.  The fact that they're making a martyr of someone who actually died makes it all the worse. 

If I was a (isk) multi-billionare, I'd donate a chunk to the Goons coffers.  :-P

Latest BoB vs Goons thread: Here. (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=370851)
This one wasn't locked, last time I looked.

Edit: Also, I have a hunch that SirMolle's post in the original (now deleted) thread is going to come to be viewed in times to come as BoB's suicide note. Vowing that BoB will utterly eliminate the Goons from EVE means that either BoB gets stuck in a guerrila war in Syndicate for months (and people start going "Hmm. BoB are tied up - time to break out the dreads!"); or that they fail, and retreat (and people go "Hmm. Looks like BoB are weaker than we thought. Time to break out the Dreads!").

If BoB had instead said something like "We're going to punish the Goons as we see fit" they could have had an excuse to pull back once things grew untenable (i.e. once the Goons start zerging BoB ships from NPC stations in Syndicate, using T1 frigs that cost less than a single T2 weapon on the BoB ships). Instead, they're irrevocably commited now.

BoB tried their usual tactic of cockslapping their enemies on the EVE-O boards and intimidating them into surrender but instead (to continue the metaphor) they've just stuck their e-peens into a meatgrinder.

Gosh I hope the Goons manage to bruise BoBs ego, they're an inspiration to all us Frig pilots  :-D

Edit: Holy shit, the swarm has over 2000 pilots? Get a third of them online at the same time and zerg the universe.

They did that to D2, and D2 bitched, logged, and petitioned their big expensive 'naughts out of the Area, then called-in BoB if I follow things right.

I like the Goons.  The number of people telling them, "you just don't understand the politics here in Eve," makes me giggle.  It's not about the politics.. it's about who blows who up first.  The goons-vs-eve scenario is like a live version of that "playing to win" article.

Eve Regulars: Hey you can't do that!
Goons:  Why not?!
Eve Regulars: It's not how things are done!
Goons: Uh.. there's nothing /stopping it/ in the rules, right?
ER: Well, no. But it's not how things are done!
Goons: You're incredibly short-signed *boom*

With much more random shit and cursing, of course.

I hope the Goons do very well.

Here is the oh so offensive sig, thanks to google cache. (which btw, was not months old but taken from a thread posted a week ago)

(http://home.mn.rr.com/rally/goon.jpg)

The truck is an animated gif: (http://home.mn.rr.com/rally/gf-bandwagon.gif)

I don't like BoB and I don't like the goons, so nothing but good times can come out of this.

The irony of forums and sigs are, it is quite possible when that old post was made the sig was different and only changed recently to the "offensive" one. That image above was indeed his current sig up to yesterday. BoB grabbing a link to an old thread just gave more ammo to the goons for no reason. If you have ever been to somethingawful, you'd be suprised that the sig was so tame in comparison. They are capable of much worse over there.

If that was the Sig BoB is going to war over it's pretty lame, at the same time I don't think they really need an excuse to go to war at all.

But I'm still going to root for the goons, go go underdog.

it's like back in school, when my history teacher told us that the reasons to start a war build up over time. After some time an event happens that can be taken as the "excuse" (the actual reason) to start the war.

The actual reason for that war is that the goons are slowly but surely becoming a threat to bob. A threat that sooner or later they will have to deal with. Better attack them now (in the summer - lower activity from less dedicated players), than fight in the fall, when people play more.

I really like BoB, they've proven my theory over and over again that a dedicated, serious, "catass" if you will, group of people can really dominate (or at least leave a mark) in eve. It doesn't matter if you like them or hate them, you've heard about them :)

I'd rather see a swarm of not at all dedicated, not at all serious players in dirt cheap equipment destroy said catass group through sheer numbers in a battle of attrition.  But that's my hatred of the catasses talking.  All I know is insuring a frigate=practically nothing.  Insuring a dreadnaught=selling your firstborn into slavery.

BoB is already backpeddling - they've gone from 'Eradicate the Goons entirely' to 'Drive them from 0.0', with "Drive them back into Syndicate" being the next obvious fall-back position for them to take.

This was after a couple of BoB members got threads locked&deleted for making RL threats to the Goons, btw. Gogo moral high ground! :D

Ok, I know who's who now, but's who playing the part of the US and Condi Rice? Will the ISS be asked to deploy peacekeepers?

Has anything started yet?  BoB and Goons have either called off their forum warriors or everything is getting deleted before I get there.  Has there been any actual figthing yet?

What's the difference? 90% of the fighting occurs on the boards while people are circling gates and stations.

I have a couple of friends that moved back into synd last month, met one today he said he hasn't been able to undock for a couple of days because of bob campage and the goons being spread out between synd and outer ring (or wherever they're fighting d2 now).

Btw, goonfleet cannot do anything to bob atm. The only reason they had success against d2 was that they got some people in decent ships and SMASH supplied capital support, nothing to do with "sheer numbers" or "dirt cheap equipment". The zerg only works so far :)

As a [low ranking flunky] member of ISS I find that fucking funny (no we almost certainly wouldn't)

Personally I've nolove for BOB or the Goons but I hope the goons give BOB a bloody nose over this, BOB (certainly if their forums warriors are anything to go by) need to come down a peg or 2 (although I blame the larger EVE community for inflating them to that point in the first place)

I hope the Goons win, I doubt they actually will, but I hope they do.


The entire situation highlights one of EVE's largest flaws, the inability to "catch up" with the vets. Both BoB and the Goons are very similar in their, attitudes, outlook and dedication. Kill a hundred of them and another hundred will show up. With those things being relatively equal though, it will come down to raw power, and this is where BoB will end up winning. It's a T1, Low SP fleet against a T2, High SP fleet. There simply aren't any tricks or tactics to get around this, and zerging can only counter so much (and it isn't like BoB doesn't have it's own manpower to bring to bear). Attrition won't work either. Sure the Goons' costs will be very low compared to BoB's, with a single HAC being worth something like two dozen T1 cruisers, but BoB makes coin like no one else in EVE. All that quiet, safe, controlled space of theirs doesn't sit idle. It's full of top end complexes to run, roids and moons to mine, and rats to farm. It's also rumored that something like half of the T2 ship BPOs are in BoB's hands... probably just a rumor, but it holds some truth, BoB undeniably has a massive T2 industry backing their war machine.

The Goons will probably 'lose', not because they got outplayed, or were less dedicated, but simply because they haven't been around long enough... and the sad part is they never will be able to. The guy who started playing 3 years ago and the guy who started 3 months ago generate SP at the same rate. The advantage here is obvious and insurmountable with the current game mechanics. Then you have things like the T2 BPO lotto, a 'fair' system for when it was released, but a impossible barrier of entry for any new players wanting "in" on that aspect of the game. Can't win the BPO's because there is a finite amount and they have already been won. Can try to track them down and try buy the BPO's, but the costs will be immense and thats assuming it's even for sale. The larger alliances have bought up BPOs in the past, not because they needed it, but because they didn't want their enemies to get there hands on it. Then there is just the plain old issue of the other guy having a 3 year head start to accumulate assets and wealth, but you can't really blame anyone for that  :-P

BoB for all there forum whoring, propaganda and chest beating, is still the most powerfull alliance in EVE and by a fairly large margin. BoB is *very* arrogant, but much of this arrogance is deserved. They have a reputation as being unbeatable, much of it thanks to their forum whoring and propaganda, but it still has a base in reality. Has anyone ever really hurt BoB? Taken space from them or done them any serious damage? How many alliances has BoB killed on the other hand? How many systems has BoB taken? You could make the argument, that BoB has had more impact on EVE, then any type of guild/clan has had an impact on any other MMO like game in existence.

My best guess for how the situation will play out, is both sides are assuming the other will give up first. The Goons are assuming BoB will get bored, and BoB is assuming the Goons will be demoralized and go back to empire. BoB won't get bored, BoB has been known to camp stations for weeks, even months, just to get a single kill. The Goons won't give up either though... because, well, they're goons. The goons twisted sense of humor is notorious and them pissing off BoB as much as they have is one hell of a joke to them :). It's probably the great Irony of it all, BoB is very dedicated because they take the game much more seriously then everyone else, they play to win. The Goons are just as dedicated, because they don't take the game seriously at all, they play for fun, their fun.

After a few weeks/months of Goon Fleet's suiciding against BoB wolf packs, someone will take a potshot at a BoB territory and BoB will pull back to defend it's system from the incursion, ultimately using the attack as an excuse to backout of the stalemate with the Goons and save face.

BoB has been backpedalling like hell. That already says enough. Furthermore, BoB seems to be getting annoyed by the Viet Cong bees idea already, before it really started.

Regarding their T2 BPOs, CCP is bringing both Invention and Reverse Engineering into the game, where apparently Invention will result in BPOs and Rev.Eng. in BPCs. If this is indeed the case, alliances will start trying to generate BPOs from chance-based Invention. Which is kind of in line with CCPs afterthought of making T2 baseline. If that happens, any larger entity can produce HACs and such at cost.

Yea, I've read about the salvage/reverse engineering system, but unfortunately, CCP seems to work at a Blizzard like pace ><

From what I've heard, BoB are spread out all over Syndicate waiting for Goons to show up - meanwhile, GS are having fun in Empire hunting down members of other corps that bandwagon wardecced them recently and are in no real hurry to rush back headlong into BoB's gate camps.

Edit: More drama. (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=372845) Also: Bees (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=373083).

I don't know, I just like the goons for some reason.  In my eyes BoB represents the Eve equivalent of an uber guild, and having a group of folks flying around in T1 frigates pissing them off amuse me to no end.  It appears from the forums that the GS did what I would have expected, it spread out and is approaching this as a guerilla style fight.  They can't really engage BoB on a massive level without getting crushed, so they will just take potshots when they can and annoy the hell out of them.  Would be interesting to know if this was the type of fight that BoB was expecting when they started all of this.

Ho Li Crap.

That bees thread is awesome, with the swarm coming in and talking, like, shit I don't know. I like these guys already.

The lock-post from the moderator was fun too:

BoB still doesn't get it. (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=374208)

Boasting about how well your your latest war is going by posting a list showing that you've killed hundreds of newbie ships and shuttles, and about ten ships that cost anything like real money?   :roflcopter:

Edit: BoB doesn't like NPC stations in Syndicate 0.0 space. (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=374399&page=1)

The best part about that Kill list, is it only deals with one specific spot in all of Syn, which just happens to conveniently be the spot where BoB has the best kill stats... against shuttles no less  :roll:

It's like me claiming I pitched a no-hitter, but "forgeting" to say I only played 1 inning.

Odds are it costs BoB more in ammo to blow up said frigs/shuttles, then it does for the Goons to lose them.

Heh, had a lot of people talking to me about it, since some of them knew Smokse, the guy who created the first Killboard for EVE and unfortunately died in a car accident. For an established 'community' like the Goons to piss on all of that and actually make fun of a dead person, I'd say the reaction from BoB and some of the old EVE players is well justified, but thats just me.

I cant say I'm much of a fan of other communities coming over to invade others either.

If it was really about the insult, Goons banning the offender should have been enough for BoB.

So then you're not a big fan of new players in games.  Good enough.

Communities change.. only MMO players bitch loudly about it.

Two minor details:
1) The sig wasn't making fun of the person who died, it was making fun of people who used him as an excuse to jump on the "Attack the Goons" bandwagon (i.e. exactly what BoB did, and what you're doing here)
2) The person with the sig knew Smoske IRL, and had already apologised to Smoske's father before BoB went on their crusade.

...on the highway speeding like hell with a bike while being high.

Just thought I might add that. He surely does not deserve all that "respect" he's getting.

So who won the war?

Last I'd heard was some crazy rumor that 2000 goons cancelled their accounts because CCP refused to 'reinforce' the nodes they were active in.  No real battles could ever occur because the server clusters puked and ground to a halt any time something was tried.

CCP: Fleet battles are teh awesome! So long as you only have 20-40 to a side!

From what I've heard, the Goons had the gag order reapplied a while back so 'updates' on the war tend to be BoB claiming that they've got Goons on the ropes now - they mean it this time honest, various BoB suckups, er sucking up to BoB...and no replies from the Goons outside of the game. It tends to make the threads a little one-sided. ;)

Inside the game, there's about a 20:1 kill ratio in favour of BoB. However, the twenty are throwaway T1 frigs and the one is a fully kitted out T2 HAC.

So basically the difference between swatting 20 flies and blowing up the Senate?

Expensive T1 frig =~ 300k
HACs go for ~150M... I guess cheap ones are ~75M, and expensive ones are ~180M.

The value of the mods would be similar. So about even, iskwise, is 300 to 1.

BoB declares victory (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=380624) (without actually declaring victory).
(Thread is locked, and also no Goons are posting to EVE-O atm).

Couple of minor details, though: Goonswarm still has over 2K members, and still controls Syndicate. Well, as much as anyone can control Syndicate.

Funny, I had a weird dream last night that involved fighting BoB. By playing a game that was kind of like Risk, but somehow involved waterslides and swinging on ropes.

... I'm not insane, really.

Operation Waterslide?