f13.net

Time for me to get another car. Not looking to buy new cause I just can't afford that. I was looking at Jettas from 2000-2002 and realized they all had inherent problems that would run you about 1500-2000 in the first 6 months of owning one. I was also looking at Sentras from the same years with better results. Any other suggestions? Looking to stay under 12,000 CDN. I use autotrader.ca if you need a reference for what prices are like.

I'm looking for a stick 4 door. No muscle bullshit. With gas prices at a $1 + per litre I'm not willing to drive a fucking V6 so I can extend my manhood. No honads either. I hate them. Lots.

Get something that gets 40 MPG, even if you have to stretch your budget a bit to do it. Gas prices aren't coming down ever again.

If you are looking at Sentras I would take a look at the Altima (which is just one step up on the Nissan line). I'm not sure about their prices since they revampted them in 02, but my 01 is still humming along great with 60k miles. This is the second one I have owned and never had any problems with either.  It doesn't have great mileage as it has one of the larger 4 bangers you can get (and some of the newer ones have V6s in them) but it isn't horrible either.

The answer to every 'i need a good cheap car' question is 'Toyota Corolla'.

If you're picky about what you drive, you'll want something else, but if you're just looking for basic transportation that sustains abuse well without shoving a piston through the hood, yeah.

Has all the requisite parts, very reliable, etc. etc.

Boring as hell tho.

I dunno how Toyota does it in Canada, but I'm sure it's rather similar to here....they have their "certified preowned" cars (I hate putting spin on "used," but whatever).  I got a 2004 Corolla for reasonably cheap two years ago, it gets great gas mileage and I've never had a problem.  It's a bit lower-end than what you've been looking at, but hey, great gas mileage.

EDIT - Apparently I agree with Mr. Noisy.  My Corolla CE has no power windows or locks, but it gets me to and fro just fine and can fit a surprising amount of stuff.  Yeah, it's boring, but who cares.

Buy a scooter.  You would look adorable on a Vespa. 

I'm not kidding.

I've been single long enough, thanks.

How much is a used Scion in Canada?

We don't get the Scion brand in Canada.  I think it's U.S. only, I've never even seen one  :-(.

The Yaris and the Aveo,while newer models have excellent mileage and crashworthiness. The Aveo has high marks for its fit and finish. The yaris is new, but should be similarly well made. If the thought of buying an american car frightens you, the Aveo is a chevy in name only.

Aveo's are sub10k new for a model fitting your specs. The yaris a few grand more. Haven't researched used aveos and the yaris is brand new.

We got the box truck. They aren't cheap up here. Something like 16,5 for base and there's 0 used cause no one wants it. They should bring the cars up.

I just bought a Dodge Caliber, it is a good fun car, but if I had to do it all over with the gas prices going insane like they did, I would have bought a used or new jetta diesel.  50 mpg and you don't have to worry about changing your driving habits, especially if you are driving long distances at higher speeds.  http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-06-10-diesel-vs-hybrid_x.htm  was an article where they drove both the hybrid and the diesel both 500 miles + and the diesel did it and did it more comfortable, and the hybrid didn't.  But if you are doing stop and go traffic and not a lot of time on the highway, you might want a hybrid, but remember your going to recoup the extra money by saving on gas in about 5 years, so if you get rid of it in 3 years you may want to think on that.

If I could get over the dealers here in town, I could have gotten a Honda civic or Toyota corrola nicely equipped for about the same price I paid for my dodge, but I hate those two dealers, hopefully yours aren't pecker heads.

Rather than repeat everything from the last time I direct you here:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=5890.0

Being in Canada you can find some cool manual turbo Volvos. I'm not sure what specifically you can get for that price,  but you could find an awesome condition 850 R (1997 would be the last year they were made) sedan or wagon.

The turbo 5 banger is good for 20ish in the city and high 20s highway, which isn't great, but the turbo will make you smile when you floor it.

How the heck do you get a 5-cylinder vehicle?

Inline

To expand a bit more on that -- instead of the typical "V" shaped matched cylinder design, the cylinders are configured in a straight line allowing for odd numbers. Quite a throwback to engineering of yore, however it does allow for better packaging in some cramped engine compartments.

If the concern is the rising price of gas, see about finding a diesel or an engine capable of E85. If cheap and economical is what you are looking for, a blindfold and a dart are useful on any car lot. When you buy used, you buy someone elses problems and eventually, the dollars you save buying used are spent in the repair shop. Just my experience...

so you're thinking like 10k for the car and 2k for the rims right?

Rims, lol.

I said I don't like hondas. Reading comprehension.

You're single and you need four doors? Too many single mums on the online dating service? Get a Golf TDi. The GLS variant has four doors.

Sure do - I'm about to trade in my gas sucking (but hella fun) RX-8 for a Scion xB (and their dirt cheap here new - 18k or so). You have to go through a Toyota dealer as they don't have showrooms but in Vancouver anyway there not that rare. Oh and second on the Corolla dullest car that will last you a decade and cost nothing. Also might want to look at Subaru's. If you can stand the styling the Impreze WRX (not the street kid sTI) is a wicked fun wagon to drive and the 4 banger in it is reasonable on gas. I recently drove a Prius as well and found it to be totally servicable and kind of fun in an odd way (continuous variable transmission and energy management panel).

EDIT: On the west coast anyway you can get the tC as well as the milk truck. Which i quite like tyvm :P Oh and reading is hard - just saw your price range and assume that's canadian. Still something like this (http://www.hebdo.net/usedcarcanadasearch/details/22467074/car/victoria/britishcolumbia/1999_SUBARU_OUTBACK_Limited_AWD_Sedan_22467074.html) can be had relatively (14k) cheap. 1999 AwD wagon.

Don't get an xB...just, don't. Get an xA or tC instead.

Or don't get a Scion at all.  The guy at the Toyota dealership talked me OUT of buying one.  Granted, that was two years ago, but when a guy who gets paid to sell them tells you they're ass, they're probably ass.

Insurance is guaged on what you buy. A 2 door is a coupe and a 4 door is a sedan (in most cases.) There's that and I have goalie equipment to lug around multiple times a week, I don't need to ram it all into the back of a fucking 2 door. Also, Turbo? The last thing I need is 8K/year insurance.

Turbo diesels generally don't attract high premiums. They get you up hills, not off the line like a rally car. Of course, you folks play ice hockey too, so all bets are off.

If you go diesel, you really need a turbo or the car will drive like a golf cart up hills.

I know you said no Honda's, but would you consider an Acura?

I've got a '99 Acura 1.6 EL, which is a Canada only car. It's basically the 4-door Honda Civic SI was slightly different stylings and all the trimmings.

Been super happy with this car over the last 3 years that I've owned (put about 90,000 KMs on it so far).

Not sure what part of Canada you're in, but there's lots of the 1.7 EL for sale under $12,000.00 across Canada according to the autotrader site.

You're lucky.  I walk through a Toyota lot every day on my way to lunch, with Scions all over the sidewalk.  I feel like I've been jabbed in the eye every time.

Is it mint green like the truck?  :)

No, that truck was one of kind. This one is a much more tasteful green ;)

A friend of mine actually suggested this car and I did look into them. It's one of the cars I'm looking at. I just don't grasp how it sells cheaper than an older, shittier honda and it's the same damn thing. This market confuses me.

Try working in it every day.

Ooooh... can you get me a Aston Martin cheap?  I promise I'll never ask you for anything ever again if you can! 

Yeah, I don't quite get that either, since the EL is basically a fully loaded 4-door Civic. I got the "sport" version which has everything the premium does, except the leather seats (which is fine by me). Sun roof, sport suspension... you know, the more I talk about it, the more I'm just trying to make my 4 door sedan sound cooler than it actually is.

Good car though imo

For one of these:
(http://www.astonmartin.com/content/allsites/images/610x224_The_Cars_DB9_DB9_4f117f75-74cc-4eac-aac9-5cc589cd86cf.jpg)

You could have one of these:
(http://www.chevrolet.com/i/pic/corvette/2007/photogallery/ext_gallery13.jpg)

and this:
(http://gmcanada.com/images/vehicles/2006/hummer/h3/humm_h3_over_main.jpg)

And still have plenty of cash left over for a nice flat in the city.

The Aston is a nice looking car, but I can't live in it.

Righ has been thinking about a Corvette.  We've been in the US for ages and he misses driving a proper sportscar.  I don't like SUVs a bit and Hummers are probably the biggest and the worst of the lot.  I can't imagine why anyone would have one.  I suppose they need room to lug their gigantic penises around.  Anyway... I could live in an Aston Martin.  I just can't afford to buy one.   :? 

Righ, have you test driven a Corvette? Because last time I drove one, in the late 90s, they were terrible. I mean, just awful. If you are into american sports cars, look at a new thunderbird. But short of finding a restored 70s Stingray, stay the heck away from new Corvettes. I'm talking water leaks in the convertible, shuddering fiberglass and bad structural integrity. That'd be ok if it were a 'budget' sports car, but they aren't! A new corvette is more expensive than a new bmw z4!

We haven't driven one yet so who knows.  An old restored one is always a possibility, too.  I don't like the BMWs, so that's out.  You can get older TVRs here, but they're hard to find.  It would have solved everything if we were allowed to drive our car more than 2500 miles per year in the US.  Oh well.  We really just want something fun to drive.  I wouldn't even mind one of those Minis... how much more fun could you have zipping around corners?  At least the proper Mini Coopers were fun for that sort of thing.  With my luck, however, I'd be run over by a Hummer first corner I zipped around!  God, I despise SUVs.

The new Minis are made by BMW :P But I understand the aversion to BMW. They are awful 'serious' cars, even by German standards. Well built, luxurious, but they do lack a certain je ne sais quoi. I own one now, a newer one, and I miss my old Porsche desperately. There's nothing 'wrong' with my new car, that I can put my finger on. But its missing an ineffable fun quality that my 82 911 SC had in spades, even if it was a loud, bumpy and fastidious car.

To be honest, I suspect that most modern sports cars are somewhat all alike with their desire to insulate the driver from the road. Suspension vs gritty feel, sound insulation vs hardened handling; we've all turned into wimps when it comes to zooming about. I even test drove a 1990 porsche 911, the new water cooled kind. It broke my heart.

The Corvette declined with each successive model up to the C4, moving from sports car to poor muscle car. I suspect that's what you drove Engels? Apparently they're pretty awful, and the fact that you can buy them for peanuts supports this. The C5 is the first Corvette to have been built like a European sports car and even managed to get the spoiled Euro pundits to accept them. So, I'd really only be interested in reasonably contemporary Vettes.

And I don't consider a Thunderbird a sports car. I'm not sure what I consider it. White elephant, perhaps.

Well, I suggested the t-bird simply because I assumed that anyone considering an american sports car was going for some form of classical legacy romantic buz rather than actual sports car performance. In which case, you can always find restored 60s mustangs out there for that fix too.

To be honest, I do not know exactly what Corvette I drove. I just remember the feeling that I was in a toyota with a toy plastic body strapped onto it.

I'm surprised to hear you say they are cheap. Looking at the classifieds for both new and used, the prices seem really steep to me. I guess its all relative, but for that kind of money, you can find porsches in very good condition and even with my aversion to water cooled porsches, its still no contest.

If you test drive some cars this weekend, let me know your impressions.

I don't dislike BMWs, I meant I didn't like the Z series.  Personally, I like pointy cars and those are mostly roundy.  One of our TVRs was more roundy than I would prefer but it was good fun so I let it slide.  Astons aren't exactly pointy but they're very dreamy.  Since Righ does most of his work from home and we hardly go anywhere, I'm really not fussed about what we drive.  It was different in the UK because we were always on the road.

Nix, don't buy a Lada.

Ack! The new Corvettes are awesome (http://www.automotive.com/2006/12/chevrolet/corvette/reviews/index.html) and the rumors about quality on the new (no longer being produced (http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/11/pf/autos/thunderbird/index.htm)) Thunderbirds are atrocious. Those comments above about the Corvette are not all that accurate.

And as for the BMW Z4, I have driven it and aside from being a very expensive Miata clone, the car is also small, cramped and underpowered.

I love the looks of the Aston tho... I might not be able to live in it, but if it were a woman, I would want to.


edit -- formatting.

Heh, funny thing is right now I am driving what you would call the biggest and worst (in terms of economy) of the lot. But thank you for the anatomical compliment.... I must tell the wife she should feel very fortunate. :-P

I've been keeping an eye out for a '91 GMC Syclone here, but haven't seen one for a few years.

(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/2360000-2360999/2360929_17_full.jpg)

4.3L Turbocharged V6 in an AWD truck. WOO WOO

You guys talking about problems with new Corvettes are crazy. Everyting '98 and up is amazing. You can find a great shape Z06 for around $30k now.

As far as Syclones go, I park next to a guy with a teal/gray Typhoon. It's incredibly clean and awesome. We've got the coolest cars in the garage.

The smaller the better. I drive a 2D GTI. I'm a small single guy, I don't need a big car. Currently a 2000 model, I'll be upgading to the 2007 when it comes out (with all the features, which don't happen until day 52 of the model year).

Bhodi (small man) and his (not big) car:

(http://www.hotrodstohell.net/quarter_midget/rowdy_car.gif)

Just kidding... Just couldnt get the image out of my mind and this was the only way to get past it and start thinking about work again.

haha you just made me laugh! What the heck is that?

Pic of a kid with his go-kart. You know the kind made with an old lawn mower motor complete with the yank to start...

Gosh, you look so innocent and fresh faced in that photo too...

I miss racing gokarts. Lived down the road from a track, we used to get a ton of free rides because all the employees were our neighbors.

I'd also think of getting a Mini if it weren't for the improper scale of vehicles in the US. I love little cars with good handling, probably from years of racing gocarts.

Could very well be that the new corvettes are better than the POS I drove; it was a mid 90s car. If the vettes are now so awsome, it would explain why they are so expensive.

It's kind of scary, isn't it?  We went for a drive yesterday and I was noticing how many SUVs and pick-up trucks were on the road.  In fact, almost everything I saw was HUGE.  I was surprised at the number of pick-ups, though.  It seems strange for PA to have so many. 

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060801/auto_sales.html?.v=10

"General Motors Corp., the world's largest automaker, said its sales fell 22.2 percent, with trucks falling 31.2 percent and cars inching down 2.7 percent."

The SUV boom is ending, crashing even.

Righ was talking about that the other day.  It's good news, I think.  No offense to Edlavallee, but I have a feeling he drives a Hummer mostly because he sells them.  My dad used to sell cars when I was a kid and we never knew what he'd be driving from one day to the next.

I'm not scared of much, I've had a lot of EXTREME hobbies (before it was a Mt Dew thing) like rock climbing and cliff diving. But I'm scared of interstate traffic, big rigs, specifically. I've always had a hard time sleeping in cars (control issues), but the last four times I have, I've woken to the driver just about to swerve into a big rig or vice versa. Waking up to see such a monstrosity looming and drawing closer, whilst the controller of my vehicle is somehow not making a correction to avoid death...well, it sucks.

What I'd really like is a plug-in hybrid. Hopefully there'll be something better than the Prius+aftermarket kit by the time I'm shopping. Not sure I could live without my cargo capacity (used to have a Jeep Cherokee, now have a small pickup).

Why didn't you tell me this before!?!

I just bought this:
(http://www.telecable.es/personales/forchetto/enlaces/lada%20tuning.jpg)

SUV boom as a whole is crashing under the weight of the oil prices. The new SUV's (Yukon/Tahoe) are up based on being a new model, however every automaker is now having to revisit their product plans in light of $3/gallon gas. E85 and other technologies are on the horizon, although the gas based alternatives (every hybrid out there) have a very limited future if this keeps up.

One promising news item is the proposals currently in the government regarding creating a "Manhattan Project"-like initiative to come up with alternative fuels to reduce the reliance on gas. About 25 years too late in my opinion, but better late than never.

And Signe, you are right -- I drive one because I didn't have a choice (although I am not a plaid sports coat sales guy). I tend to like convertibles. This sucker is just too big and is really hard to park. I do generate a great many terrified stares when I decide I want to merge tho... You ain't gonna stop me.

Right, I know you guys have a mid-90s (Correct?) Mustang GT now and are looking to dump it, but I'd at least give the new Cobra a look when it comes out.

98. I'd rather not get a brand new car, and I'm rather keen to rid myself of the Mustang's rear suspension. :P

I've driven one of the new Mustangs. The new rear is vastly improved. I can only imagine that a Cobra's would be markedly better.

If you want to get something used but fun...um...Audi TT?

Audi makes pretty cars.

Now I want this:

(http://autosalon.autoboerse1.de/Bilder/audi-le-mans-quattro-concept-1.jpg)

I don't think they'll give it to me, though.   :?  I know I said I like pointy cars but this one is like pointy and roundy at the same time. 

Audi is the new Porsche.

Classic Porsches are great, but the new ones aren't - we have constructors, electricians and whatnot using the Cayenne as a work car. That car is just plain wrong and as 4x4's go, the VW Touareg is cooler...

Now my boss drives a '73 911 - that's a nice car, but with two kids I could get a nice used BMW stationcar for that kind of money... which I don't have so I drive a Fiat.

Actually, it's just the domestic auto industry - import light truck (incl SUVs) sales are pretty flat, while domestic light trucks dropped just shy of 30% compared to a year ago:

http://wardsauto.com/keydata/USSalesSummary0607.xls

And now for some amazing spin control:
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=27722 (http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=27722)

F-150 Lightning reviewed:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eR8d2Kn9HCs&mode=related&search=

"The worst car I ever drove was a Russian jeep in Saigon, Vietnam.
The critical word in that sentence is: Was!"

I bought a Yaris 2 months back.  Already put 4.5k miles on it.  I love it.  Drove 4 of us the 300 miles to Vegas and it was plenty comfortable.  It has never gotten under 35mpg.  It doesn't have a lot of hp but it's so tiny that it still has plenty of oomph.  One of the best bits for me, living in the city without my own parking spot, is that I find parking spots all the time that few other people can take.

Cost me under 15k, with an automatic transmission, a few other options, and a 6 year / 100k warranty. :)

Other cars I looked at were the Scion xA and the Toyota Matrix.  Both great cars as well.  I considered a Prius but I just don't think they are worth it (and most of the other hybrids don't get good enough gas mileage to be considered over the other cars I was looking at).  Even with gas as costly as it is you'd still have to drive a LOT to save money when you can get such great mileage on another one of the small cars.  Plus I do mostly highway driving where I wouldn't see that much benefit anyway.

BTW, buy your car online.  Check out cars.com, carsdirect.com, etc.  I got one great quote from a dealer, asked a few other dealers if they could beat it (none did) and then had my car a few days later without having to bargain at all.

Well, to be somewhat fair, how many actual Trucks have they reviewed?

The Lightning is something of an abomination though - sportscar power without the handling, truck handling without the functionality (no 4x4? lol). Pick-ups just generally drive like shit if you're use to performance cars.

How about 2001 S60 Volvo? 2002 Honda Accord? 2001 Acura Integra? 2003 Toyota Echo?

Gas prices should be at least double at what they are now to make up for increased cost on 75k/day commute. Hybrids are status symbol for aging hippies, nothing more. They are not environmentally friendly (disposal of old batteries), they are not safe (high voltage arcs in crashes) and extra costs over comparable gasoline or diesel engine is well over what you get in gas savings.

To qualify the comments above, they are not more not environmentally friendly (disposal of old batteries), they are not more safe (high voltage arcs in crashes) and extra costs over comparable gasoline or diesel engine is well  over what you get in gas savings.

-->  Business Week article (http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/mar2006/bw20060309_791538.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_autos+lede)
-->  Edmunds.com article  (http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/103708/article.html)

The halo that hybrids have these days are the fortunate benefit of good timing and good PR. Hybrids have a long way to go to be a more than just a green political statement and more mainstream. The US Government needs to commit to a cooperative development program and let the scientists develop something better.

-->  Southern Maryland article on the PROGRESS Act (http://somd.com/news/headlines/articles/4075.shtml)

I want a hybrid just so I don't have to buy gas but once every six months or more. I almost never do highway travel in my car, and even if I did, I'd use less gas.

Fuck the environment, I'm not all that worried about it. I'd rather not destroy it utterly, but we're not exactly at some crisis point right now, despite what the environuts will tell you. And I did mention earlier the need for serious investments in battery technologies.

Fuck the cost:benefit analysis.

Fuck the 'safety issues' (I used to drive an OMGFLIPPY SUV).

It's all about fucking over those arab assholes. Economic warfare. It's gotta start somewhere.

That's why American cars should run on maize, broccoli, peanuts and oreos.

Why throw away perfectly good Oreos?

American cars should run on assfat and redneck stupidity that got Bush into the office.

While that would be fine justice, it's more likely they'll run on the tears of the rest of us.

I could run a diesel truck/car on french fry grease...does that count as assfat?   :rimshot:

I think my new car is okay and it gets good gas milage, but it isn't fun to drive.  The most fun for me are fullsize trucks and jeeps.  God I miss my 2000 Wrangler allready!  I miss being able to jump curbs, burn out in all 4 tires, put the top down and cruise, and the fact that if I when I fell asleep one morning and wander into the ditch and a farmers field all I had to do was kick it in fourwheel and get out of there...

I despise the jeep liberty, compass, and comander, and I hate that they teased us at the auto show of jeep diesel pick up with a manual transmisson. 

Not that it matters to anyone, but I just pulled the trigger on a 2007 Scion tC.  No options (the base car comes pretty much loaded), and it's a ton of fun to drive, if not a proper 'sports car'.  The 160-hp Camry 4-cyl engine tied to a fair amount less car, a slick-shifting 5-speed and a nicely buttoned down suspension that doesn't beat the shit out of you.  Pulls strongly from about 2K through 4K (where I stopped, since I'm in the breakin phase of ownership).

I got a kick out of the whole 'Scion buying experience', to be honest.  No negotiating on the price or on your trade-in (flat KBB for condition/mileage), so it's like walking into Best Buy and buying a new console or something.  Like the Saturn thing, but taken a step further, really.  If you don't like their price/terms/product, you go elsewhere.  I was out of there in my new car about 1 hour after entering, and didn't really have to worry about whether or not I'd gotten a 'bad deal'.  It helps that they throw all the goodies in the base model for $17K - everything else is either bad-sounding audio gear (the factory system is quite alright, imo - that extra shit fucks it all up) or overpriced dealer add-ons.

A far cry from the local Honda dealership which made even asking what they were charging for the Civic Si a freaking chore that lasted 3 days via email.

Also, any used car buying advice? I've been reading a fair bit and generally it's never settle for what they want, try and finance outside of the dealers and never give into their crap.

I've done quite a bit of used car shopping, 6 months finding the right porsche, then 2 months finding the right BMW, and my rule of thumb is, if the dealer's haggling too hard, do not trust what they're selling. A dealer that accepts the limits you give him straight up and seems to respect that, and works with that is someone you can work with. Also, do a buyer's inspection unless for whatever reason you feel 100% certain you know what you're getting.

Cautionary tale: I go to a BMW dealer, guy tells me the car I'm looking at has 'special tires' and has had a 'full service' a week ago. All seems great and fine, I'm pleasantly surprised at his modest asking price, so I tell him that I think this is going to be my car, but lets just go ahead and do a buyers inspection. He aquiesces, and voila, sure enough; the tires are knock off all weather gear tires with about 2k miles left on two of them; the oil in the tank is dirty, the shock covers are cracked and that's just a preliminary appraisal.

The buyers inspection cost me 100 bucks, but imagine the hurt on the wallet if I'd believed the dealer. Moral of the story: If it sounds too good to be true, live in hope, but do a buyer's inspection. Dealers know they can get you if they can persuade you that you are getting  a sweet deal.

More buy American propaganda from your friend in Detroit.

Quality, bitches! (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060810/AUTO01/608100380)


Would be nice if this article was in the NYT or LA Times, but I am nothing if not patient.