f13.net

So it seems, after some research, the problem with Magic: The Gathering online is the ridiculous costs. Well, that comes par with Magic - I used to play competitively, like nationally ranked (not of great notice, I was young, school was more important). But I was very good. I'm looking for another game to play, and the only one of note seems to be Starchamber. If you're wondering what I'm talking about:

Linkie (http://www.starchamber.net)

I've played through the tutorial (about a month ago, so I'll probably do it again). But I'm wondering if anyone here plays both/either of those games. Single player games just aren't cutting the mustard for me anymore.

*Snicker*

I play MTGO, not bought any cards for ages and probably going to sell my collection pretty soon.  It's something to do that I find relaxing putting together unusual decks etc but the cost is way way over the top.

Will have to check this Starchamber out.

Well. After playing 15 games - Wizards of the Coast has completely given up on Magic. Apparently, in the latest block release (expansion) - Mirrodin - Wizards decided to add a new effect called Affinity. Here's how it works.

Artifact creatures can have affinity - and for each artifact they have in play, they cost 1 less colorless to put out. Affinity equipped artifact creatures are generally costly. But due to the overwhelming amount of cheap artifact equipment (shit that give stupid crazy bonus' like +3/+3 and the +1 life for each 1 damage dealt for 2 mana), people generally have 5 or so artifacts out by the third turn. Oh, and there are artifact lands. They count as artifacts too. Here's how a game generally goes.

Turn 1:
Player 1: artifact land (tap), artifact (orb of some type usually)
Player 2: Mountain

Turn 2:
Player 1: artifact land (tap both), 2 more artifacts (count em, this is now 5 artifacts)
Player 2: Mountain (tap both), goblin raider

Turn 3:
Player 1: artifact land, tap ONE, cast Myr Cumguzzler (4/4, trample, affinity, +2/+2 for each artifact equipped), tap another land, equip Loxogons Buttcleaver (+3/+3).  

Now stop. Ok, so this guy, on the third turn, has a creature out that costs ONE mana to cast, 2 to equip (all colorless, mind you) and ends up being 9/9 trample. Tonight, I actually played against someone, who on the 5th turn had a 19/7 creature. omfgkkthxdrvthrubbq.

In the 7 years I played this fucking game, I have NEVER and I mean, NEVER seen a deck dominate like this. And they are fucking consistant! Of the 15 games I played, 5 of them were against Affinity decks (in the newbie room, puhleeze). I beat ONE of them (on the 4th turn, my deck dropped like an anchor in the ocean, was great).

This type of deck has absolutely CRIPPLED Magic: The Gathering Online. hell, it's crippled MtG.

Back in the day, when a card like Black Vise (1 damage for each card above 4 drawn, I believe) got banned or when Regrowth (remove one card from graveyard - bring it into play) got restricted there was an uproar (these were NOT overly powerful cards - comparatively). Wizard of the Coast's reponse now?



/facedesk

Yea, well. While they're running their course (which will take a year), I'll be over here, playing Starchamber.

Well, my MtG wisdom is as old as that expansion with Shadow ability (don't even know how this expanion was called anymore), but wouldn't a simple Shatterstorm kill that particular deck, as would a white deck with stratetically played Disenchants and Divine Offerings. Black Cards that bury cratures, Blue Counterspells, etc. All that leaves your super deck with are artifact lands and useless cheap orbs on the board and enchantments without valid targets in your hand.

Each one trick pony in MtG is destined to fall hard once somebody sets his mind (and the resources of his deck) to it.

Teb, shatterstorm decks are gone. Disenchants got moved to green. Divine Offerings have been gone for 4 sets or so. Blue has like no counterspells anymore and black just sucks some big ass. Seriously, Affinity is DOMINATING. Oh, and those useless cheap orbs, 1 colorless, tap: do 5 damage to target creature or player. Yea, that's NOT useless.


As for people interested in Starchamber. I'm going to start playing this pretty seriously. Right now it's in Beta for the upcoming expansion. You get 20 packs of the expansion and 20 packs of the original. So at the moment you can learn to play with a lot of cards for spending...oh...$0. So if there was ever a time to play, it's right now.

As for magic, the Mirrodin stuff will be gone in 8 months.

Fuck, they really raped Magic. I concede this point to you, didn't know the depths they have gone to.

The interesting thing was the metagame, if its gone - screw them!

Just playing casual I have a lot of success against most decks with black/white. Lots of instant kills like chastise, second thoughts, wing shards, mixed with barter in blood and bane of the living. Very few creatures, worth playing against affinity decks for when you slap a purify down and watch most of all their artefacts disappear with most of their lands.

If I survive long enough have a desolation angel to take all lands out anyway.

This is just casual though, the serious decks are cheesy beyond belief. E.g. Skullclamp a +1/-1 artefact card that costs about one to equip and when the creature hits a graveyard they draw 2 cards. Some cards I just won't use way too overpowered like that scepture, had someone use that against me with a "take another turn and lose the game at the end of the turn", in combination with a plat angel with the "you cannot lose the game ability".   So lets see he taps his scepture, takes another turn etc etc etc

The possibilities for combinations are very large but a lot of them are so so broken. It's funny though when you do beat someone who is using a real broken deck, they sometimes flip out as they are not used to losing.

Some players get real upset when you conceed to them, I just say a simple "gg" and quit if it's a fast game and I'm outclassed with the deck I'm using (if it's a close or long game I stay and let them get the kill shot, only polite).  Some people take real exception to this and expect you to stay in till they get the kill, even if it's a real boring game.  

One guy was using mists of stagnation on me along with remove from gravyard cards, he didn't appear to have any creatures and was shuffling his cards back into his library.  So ok I'm going to run out of cards in about 30 turns and nothing I can do about it, so I say "gg" and quit.  He then follows to me to other games calling me a retard, I mean wtf?  You won congrats, have a cookie.

I made it to the first elimination round on the first professional tour. I got beat by landmines and a kid with a laywer for a divorced father who handed his son fatherly love in cardboard boxes full of magic cards.

I had hoped that the online version would 'balance the haves vs have-nots' but its still the same old deal.


I downloaded the client and I understand that when you register you get starter decks. I think I'm at the point in my life where I'm content with that, so if anyone wants to play me and get an easy win, look me up. you know the name.

There are a couple of other online CCGs:

The Lord of the Rings Online TCG (http://lotronline.decipher.com) (Disclaimer: While I'm not with the company any more, I was during the development and launch of this title)

Chron X (http://www.chronx.com)

There's also Battle Trolls (http://www.battletrolls.com) and CCG Workshop (http://www.ccgworkshop.com) has several ports of paper games, but they're more of a hobby outfit.

None are as expensive as MTGO, though most follow the buy-cards-and-play-for-free model, and at least a couple are arguably more balanced these days, though that's always a moveable feast.


Luke

I've read a couple of reviews of Starchamber that were very positive.

I actually beta-tested Chron X and was an early player when it first came out, but I quite after the first expansion because I didn't like the direction they were taking the game.  I think CCGs should be designed so that with a given set of cards, there's one or more "optimal" decks that have a better than average chance of beating all other decks.  Then the fun and strategy comes in with determining what that combination is going to be.

Instead, the first expansion basically created a rock-scissors-paper situation where certain decks simply had no chance to defeat other kinds of decks, which in turn had no chance against a third kind... it all hinged on what deck the other guy chose to put up against yours.

Still, it was a fun game, and I don't know how strategies may have evolved over the past several years.

Bruce

The cost as well as not being able to devote enought time to keep up with the new expansions is the reason I only play MTGO in leagues with a card pool I know.

My last few I went strictly 8th edition basic set, which has enough variety to be fun, keeps the deck building part of sealed and doesn't have to deal with mr suitcase types that standard does and you know you can play for 4 weeks and maybe win some packs.  It's the only cost effective way to play.

I like MTGO, I really do, but the cost is just outrageous.  Drafting, which was by far the most fun during the beta test, is way way way too expensive to do for real.  Had they done something intelligent like provide $1 drafts where you dont keep the cards at the end, I'd be all over it.  Full price per pack?  Um, hell no.

Xilren

Fuck MTGO, Fuck Magic, and Fuck Wizards of the Coast, in any order you wish. IN THEIR STUPID ASSES.

I played MtG in early days, right after Arabian Nights came out, all the way until that shitty expansion Fallen Ages or some shit. I loved the game, until it started to become nothing but a tournament game. The group of friends that I played with didn't play standard 2-player Magic. We played huge multiplayer games, which is where the fun was at. I mean we'd end up having 100-150 card decks, just these massive things and it was a blast. Then the fucking tournaments got started and it all went to hell.

Tournaments are all about the smallest decks possible, the fastest decks possible. It's all draw, tap, burn decks and nothing in between. Anything that isn't efficient is tossed out. Anything that delays that draw, tap, burn cycle is thrown out. To me, all the good strategy got thrown out with it. We "trained" hard for a local tourney, where the 4 of us friends who entered finished the top 4 spots in the area, then we ran a tourney of our own a few months later. After that it just got stupid, and I got out, selling most of my collection for a decent price. I've dabbled a few times with a deck or two, just buying a starter and two boosters and playing with friends, but it was so much worse of a game by then (Ice Age). I couldn't imagine trying to play, especially competitive now, with all those goddamn cards.

MtG Online needs to burn simply for putting such a retarded pricing scheme and EULA on the game.

Playing MtGO is fun if you stick with casual and the special rules like Tribal Wars (only one type of creature in the deck) or Prismatic (at least 250 cards, using all colors) - at least until that Equipment-introducing expansion came out).

The problem is that the game has grown so impossibly huge in terms of cards and card sets. They feel they have to introduce a new mechanic with every set (which led to weird things like flanking), which totally shifts the balance. Ever since Inquest came out, for instance, it has had "killer combos" in it, sets of two or three Magfic cards that combine to do something WoTC probably didn't intend. As anyone who have met the sharp end of a well-built Squirrel deck can attest to.

Speaking of other online card games, I tried Chron X and a couple of the other games from the same company, but I don't think they are capable of balancing their games, e.g. Star Trek ConQuest (the collectible online miniatures game).

Star Chamber looks far better, but what I'd really like to see was an online version of Galactic Empires, one of the first post-MtG trading card games published. Crappy art, unreadable text - but a good game nevertheless.

Either that or On the Edge. That would also rock.

I've been playing Star Chamber for the last couple hours. This game is very good. I'm not going to make a paying account until the beta is over, but woo wee, fun fun fun.

I took the plunge into online Magic a year or so ago. I quickly discovered that unless you have a comprehensive knowledge of all the cards (and how to best use them synergistically), it isn't really worth playing. I still have about $100 worth of online cards to play with- I wouldn't mind some n00b v n00b action if anyone plays.

RKDN- I will look ya up if I decide to play. Your starter decks probably aren't much worse than my feeble attempts at deckbuilding.

Haemish expresses my feelings on the matter very well... possibly with a few more FUCK THEM IN THEIR ASSES, than I would have used.

I stuck with MtG a bit longer (and partly financed a trip to Australia when I sold my cards), but ultimately quit the game for the same reason. casual play was almost impossible to come by. My last years of involvement was just organizing tournaments for otheres and being paid for it.
I quit MtGO beta when they announced the pricing, but seeing how many here hates the pricing but still play, it looks like their decision was right from a business point of view - allthough I believe a well thought through monthly pricin scheme completely removed from the offline price, would have attracted more players and ultimately greater revenue. But WoTC fear cannibalisng the real MtG.

I can see why Xilren's Twin plays and sometimes feel like joining for a bit of sealed deck... but they shouldn't be awarded for their godawful pricing.

My thoughts on Magic. I played a lot in 94-95, around the time of Legends/Revised, The Dark and Fallen Empires. I play rarely but ocasionally now, but I do follow it.

Affinity in Mirrodin is messed up, but they very recently banned a card that made those decks good. (Skullclamp)

IMO, Magic in the "limited" format and casual is far far better than what they call "constructed."

The thing about Magic is, the main skill is making a deck, not playing one. And once you make one, everyone can copy it INSTANTLY WITH ZERO SKILL. They even print out the exact decks all the winners use in tournaments.

This leads to a ton of copycatting, where there are maybe 3 deck builds that make up 90% of tournament decks. It gets stale fast. Creating a deck takes a lot of skill, but copying one and tweaking it takes very little.

In limited, you have to draft cards - you can never have the same deck in consecutive tourneys. You have to make the best of what you have, pick cards that go well together, etc.
---

The other problem with Magic is the need to sell cards. All the basic cards are used up. So they have to recycle cards, add strange new mechanics, create off the wall things, etc. They keep rotating sets and the rules for tournaments force you to play with new cards.

--

And interesting question is, how do they keep making money without collapsing under their own weight?

Alright, so today is the 2nd Anniversary of Magic Online. There are tournaments all day and they don't require a ticket to get into. So I'm going to play in a 8th Edition Sealed Deck tourney. 5 8th Edition Boosters to enter ($18.75). But I excelled at this shit back in the day, hopefully I'll do well enough to prize out. Starts in 53 minutes, if anyone wants to join up, or spectate, I'll be playing (name online is Schild).


















Odds are I'll get mana fucked.

I think that sealed deck tourneys are the best way to preserve the strategic elements in this game. Granted, some of the new card additions described above sound like they are even making it more of a stretch.  

I played in the early 90's as well and gave the game up when it became a financial sink.  The original game concept was a good one, but I think just as in the mmog world, WoC diluted the game to have more mass-market appeal (aka appeal to the lowest common denominator).  Funny how that happens.

EDIT: Don't make too many 13 year olds cry Schild.

I think by limiting myself only to sealed deck and games against people I know, I can preserve the fun of this game. Otherwise I'd just be a big pile of hate.


...Anything to avoid playing Affinity decks.

I played in beta.  No way I would play the live game.
Heck, some guy posted on WOTC's forums on how he spent 1500 bucks on the first day!  I like to play casual, and Magic has become a tournament game.  I lose.

I won my first tournament round. I rocked the other guy in the first game. Second game he had me down to 3 when he was at 17. I brought out a thorn elemental and a stream of life, bringing myself back to 8. That was the end of that.

I have an amazing sealed deck...deck. 5 packs of 8th edition, my deck is 2 colors, 17 creatures (green/white), and they all cost less then 3 to cast, cept for 1 (thorn elemental). And I got a verdent something or rather, so all my forests count as 2. I've NEVER gotten such a solid deck out of 5 packs.

Thank the stars.

Prizes for tournaments today are doubled, so feasibly, I could win a full box of 8th edition and some moneyz. Kekela. ^_^

When I thinkg of Magic: TG all I can see in my head is that overweight 24 year old guy, sitting at a table in the mall, wearing his super dooper bright blue patterned shirt with a huge spiderman on it. Really bad skin, acting like they are really badass because they are the top of the food chain in their group of 13 and 14 year olds.

It makes me shudder to see "Magic Guy" as my friend and I call them. In the dork hierarchy "Magic Guy" ranks about the lowest, a bit under "DnD Guy" who is lower than "Computer Guy".

Now Im not shittalking ALL people who play Magic: TG, but I cant get over my mential picture of "Magic Guy" camping out in the mall every time I drop by EB Games to pick some thing up.

I'm a guy playing MtGOnline wearing a VNV Nation shirt, a cigarette in each hand, and playing gamecube inbetween rounds. Does that sound right?


oh...wait, I'm in a magic tournament. Fuck.

Got my ass handed to me in the second round. Can we say I pulled NO FUCKING PLAINS. Goddamn online shuffling bulsuasdfuioashdfosuihdfa.

I've been messing with this program for a while. Not bad for something written in VB (at least I think it is).

http://www.mtgplay.com/

I can't play MtG anymore because 90% of my fucking cards aren't in any of the blocks minus classic (which is dominated by everyone who started playing before me. You know, the fuckers with the stacks of moxes), or are flat out banned.

I mean, the bolt is banned I think. The fucking bolt, my favorite card. Wah!

Holy sweet dropkicking. I just played against a guy who had 8 fliers out (from a sealed deck no less). I lost. Bad.

Somehow, in 5 packs he got:
Western Paladin
Serra Angel
and 2 of the new dual lands

That was ugly.

EDIT: In the 4th round I absolutely beat the shit out of the guy. Very badly made deck.

I play MTG, I used to play during the revised - ice age period, then picked it back up with the Mirrodin expansion.  I tend to like affinity, because they did give pretty good counters to it.  For example, Oxidze, one green mana and that artifact is destroyed, and unable to be regened.  Not too bad.  I don't play competitively, frankly because I suck turgid monkey balls, but I do have fun.  As to Magic online, I have a hard enough time justifying spending 60 bucks for a box of cardboard, but I draw the line at spending the same for VIRTUAL cards.  But that's just me, most likely.

I got out of Magic during the Ice Age.

They simply started to add too many new rules, and, of course, you need to buy new cards that have these rules so you didn't get abused by the newer cards. By that point I had enough cards to make several good decks, so I called it quits.

I still occasionally play with the folks I played with back then who all came to the decision at the same time: WotC are more interested in making money than making games.

We still use the 'Fallen Empire' era rules, no banned classics like Black Lotus or anything. Surprisingly, nobody is ever a dominant player, since we all have about the same ability and card selections, the game is in many ways more fun that way, nobody pulling out an Ace of Clovers in a game of poker kinda thing...

How do you make money in their position?

It's easy to say they are money grubbers, but they ARE a company. How would you keep up a revenue stream?

Obviously by making the game so unbalanced (as others have pointed out) that preconstructed tournaments are boring and predictable. This leads to tournaments with variants of "sealed deck" games, where the players buy new cards instead of using the ones they already own.

There is no doubt M:tG remains a license to print money for them. Too bad they let die the far more interesting games like Netrunner, Jyhad (now Vampire: the Eternal Struggle published by White Wolf) and the Battletech CCG.

I don't get the hatred for MTG at all.  I understand it far more for the online game.  I think virtual cards should be at LEAST half the price of regular cards or there should be a 1 for 1 trade in option with only paying shipping and handling.  None of this full set only tradein.

Hating the game because of how the tournaments went toward 100% efficiency does not make an ounce of sense to me.  If you were having fun with huge 150 card decks in a group then stick with that.  In college I almost exclusively played single colored decks because we would get together for rainbow games at least 3 times a week.  I loved that.

We had our EQ guild get together a few months back (we don't play EQ anymore but are still good friends and keep the yearly get together going) and we felt like playing magic but didn't have any cards.  So we took a trip to the local card shop and each bought some cards (most grabbed two premade decks of complimentary color and mixed and matched).  We had a great time playing over the next few days.  The premade decks were pretty functional and fun, I was surprised.  They used to suck.

Another thing we used to have a lot of fun with was taking a huge pile of mana, and mixing our extra's piles together (extras were usually any cards we had more than 4-6 of and didn't keep in folders) into one huge towering pile in the middle of the table.  Everyone would draw from the same pile.  It was fun to use all those cards that were usually not good enough to make it into a deck.

I don't collect the cards anymore, but I will go through and look at the new cards to see what they are like from time to time.  When I see a deck form in my head I will sometimes write it down and order the cards online individually.  It comes out much cheaper for me than trusting luck of the draw.  I usually make themes I find fun more than trying to make a killer deck.  I have made enough killer decks in my life.  And my wife refuses to play against any of them so they are no longer any fun.  I will now make things like the all dwarven land destruction deck.  Nothing but dwarves and walls and misc land destruction.  Far from killer, but it is fun.

The hatred for tournaments comes from burnout. If you decide you want to play an MTG tourney and have fun, you cannot go in without that killer mentality. You will get absolutely RAPED by the munchkins drawn to Magic like moths to flame. And getting raped isn't fun for the victim. So you have to turn on the killer instinct, and turning that off proved to be not only hard, but changed our games completely. In the end, the endless plethora of expansions that constantly recycled cards killed any hope of trying to stay in the Magic game.

Well, yes and no.  No doubt, the establishment of the "pro tour" and big cash prizes for winners brings out the ultra-competitive hidden asshole in many players, but, I had a lot of fun in the smaller side events most qualifiers and big tourneys usually have.  Like 8 person booster drafts, or multiplayer games.  Many moons ago I knew people who would go to PTQ's and state championships purely for the side events.

One side note, when I saw schild's posts on MTO I logged in Friday night just to see what was up.  Saw Schild and Arc online and learned something I had never really pursued: Trading can be decent.

Sure the room & message board part sucks and the interface limits you to 32 cards a shot, but it may be the most cost effiecent way to get cards yet.  The going rates seem to be around 32 commons for 1 event ticket ($1), or 14 uncommons, or 1 rare.  So for a little less than the price of 1 pack, you could get ~47 cards that you pick.  Hell I think I saw someone offering 96 commons for 1 ticket but he didn't responde when i messaged him.

Considering how many expansions out of current I am, I may see what I can throw together for 6 bucks or so.

Schild also mentioned something about starting a Bat Country clan... :)

Xilren
PS This is known in addictive terms as "having a relapse"
Xilren

Why did I just read this thread about MtG... now I really want to play again.

I haven't touched the game since around the time Alliances was coming out, sold everything I owned, and made out like a bandit with somewhere between $4-5k in net profit.  That money came in handy in college but I really wish I still had those cards.

Hmmm, any idea where a good place to check current price of cards is?
I have about 600 or so cards dating from the Mirage expansion back, and I have absolutely no idea what they might be worth.
I almost never play with them, and at the moment, they are sitting in tupperware containers in my room down home somewhere.

Paper cards older than onslaught aren't worth much anymore. I have Alpha through Ice Age stuff. Oh well.

Anyway: here's my rundown of the current Magic Online System. I've calmed down since some of my last posts.

1. Affinity does not dominate once you figure out how to DESTROY IT.
2. It's more fun than ANY MMO online and with a 6 person FFA might as well be considered an MMO, and the fact there's always 5000+ people online.
3. Magic Players do NOT understand Economics. Here's why:

    a. They sell something called an event ticket online. It costs $1.
    b. Tournaments cost 2 tickets if sealed deck style; constructed costs 6.
    c. There is a room, named Auction (go to marketplace type /join auction)
    d. Player in there regularly sell 200-1000 uncommons for 5 to 10 tickets.
   e. In other words, for 5 to 10 bucks, you can pretty much make a dominating deck. If you know how.

4. With all the new abilities, the game has much more depth than before. A LOT MORE.
5. It's easy to avoid people who are 12. Just look at their name. Seriously, I've never seen a name give so much away.
6. You can also look at their 'information' which gives tournament rankings. Most 12 year olds enter a lot of tournaments and lose (lower than 1500 score) or never enter tournaments (score of 1600/1600/1600).
7. Finding a game 24/7 is so easy it's a joke. I never have to be seen in another comic store again (i fucking hate comic stores).
8. The people don't smell. You might, but noone is around to care.

Edit: To add, I'm starting a Bat Country Clan inside Magic. Since there's no monthly cost. And people can come and go, I see no reason of not starting one. I also suspect some of you are very good at Magic. BTW, Tickets are better purchases than packs, unless you are playing a sealed deck tourney.

Goddamn it. Now I have to play again. Evil, Schild, pure evil.

No, evil would be if I was addicted to Second Life.

Magic is actually FUN AS SHIT. It's just expensive as fuck sometimes. Like when a new set comes out (i weep on July 18th).

Okay, what do I have to buy to get started online?  I think I have some old box for MTG:Online but I'm not sure if I threw it away or not.

Shit, this board made me reactivate DAoC. You want to talk about EVIL.... let's talk mucho RVR goodness.

MtGO is the Diet Coke of Evil.

I started playing ATITD and bought NWN plus the expansions due to talk here recently.  I'm not sure if that classifies as good or evil.  Judges?

Although I've never played MtG, I think that qualifies as ultimate evil.  I think my wife would just laugh at me if I suggested spending real money on a virtual RPG playing card game. Sounds kind of fun and strategic, but I think I'd dug my hole deep enough this month.

Don't do tournaments then is all I can suggest.  I have only been in real local ones where I knew 50% of the people.  I think I only did that twice even.

Your statement about wanting to fuck WOTC up their asses was like you wanting to fuck Hoyle up his ass because tournament poker players are cutthroat (VERY different games I understand, and a pretty bad analogy).  The game itself is rather brilliant, even if there have been some pretty interesting fuckups in individual cards and some bad sets.

My main problem is I don't really know if I want to start a second virtual collection.  The way schild mentioned trading tickets for uncommons was interesting.  Usually you only need a very choice few rares to make a deck whirr.  I just ordered my new system, I will have to install it at least to play some friends online with the premade stuff.  If I can get the game for free I am more than happy to spend $40-50 on tickets that I then sell for cards to get enough to make some fun decks to play against friends.  None of my friends are likely to go insane card buying so it should not be any problem at all.


Schild, or whoever knows:
What game modes are there besides 1 vs 1 dueling?  I think they had 3 vs 3, right?  3 headed giant?  Mountain? I think that is the right name, similar to 3 headed giant, when we had six we would play our own bastardized house rules for 3vs3.  Does the game have rainbow (5 players, each with one color, allies are adjacent)?  Are there any 2 vs 2 varients in the online game?  Getting 6 might be hard for my friends and our random schedules, while 4 or 5 would be far more reasonable.  Can you play 3 player?

1v1
2v2
2v2 2 headed giant
3v3
3-6 person free for all
7 different modes for eliminating certain sets from play
tons of different sealed deck styles
League play
8 person booster draft tourneys
constructed deck tourneys
sealed deck tourneys

The above 2 are the only ones I play in. Because Booster Drafts are where it gets stupid online. People go in to steal rares, then drop from the tournament.

Other than that, that's about it. Well, all I can think of atm.

There are also 4 rooms for playing 1v1: Constructed Casual, Constructed n00bler, Constructed Serious (mostly tournaments decks in here, it's where I play), and Sealed deck.

One definately nice thing about MTGO is the whole thing is free to setup.  You can download the client here (http://www.wizards.com/magiconline/download_client.asp) then click on the free trial links and get setup.  Initial download can take a little while (lotta art) Once you login you will do a lot of downloading the peices you need in the background.  If you decide to buy cards, you can, or not, but your account and collection remains active forever with no monthly fees.

Wotc is convinced once they wet your appetite you'll buy in.  They may be right.  As much bitching about paying real price for virtual cards as I did when beta ended, I am quite sure they have made a mint off this little title.  Whether they would have made more off a more reasonable pricing scheme is up for debate, but what the hell, there making cash.

One thing about it, they seems to have had some issues (read bugs and stability problems) over the 2 year life of it.  Not having played heavily at all, I think I missed them, but their goals for version2.0 seems to be all fixes and stability issues, then version3.0 for new things and enhancements.  Gee, that sounds just like a mmorpg.

Xilren

They just fixed a KILLER memory leak today.

Over the last week, after 4 hours or so of being open I was using 700+ megs of ram. Today after 7 hours I'm using 7 megs. W00t.

Edit to add: I'm doing a sealed deck tourney tonight. Two Darksteel packs and a Mirrodin Tournament Pack. Generally I can sell stuff after the tournament, get half my investment back and from playing I get a chance to win 24 packs. Can't complain.

selling in-game for points or Ebaying?  What exactly is their policy on EBay?

Thanks, Xilren.  If what you say is true then I guess my old account will still be active.  I don't know if that really matters or not since it sounds as if sealed deck tournaments is where most of the action is at.  But, hopefully I'll at least have some stuff I can trade for tickets.

I would be surprised if Ebay was much of an issue in this game as you can already use money to get ahead in the base game.  I suppose a really good player might want to sell on ebay to make profit, but I don't know if that is feasable.

Ebay and Paypal are encouraged. Fuck people, comeon, think about it - buy fake cards online, sell FAKE CARDS ON EBAY so that the seller can buy MORE fake cards online. It's frickin genius. They have the license to script make binary money. It's the game to end all games. If everyone didn't think it was so geeky and lame and girls dug magic, Richard Garfield would be sleeping with 75 women at a time on his solid gold harrier jet while riding on a unicorn on the way to 7-11.

Funny.  MMORPGs seem to have downplayed their costs, fearful initially that the PC gaming crowd  - accustomed to one-shot expenses - wouldn't go for a regular fee.  Their costs are creeping up, but from a relatively low starting point.

MtGO, on the other hand, new well ahead of time that their target demographic was stupid enough to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on rectangular pieces of cardstock.  So they shot for the moon.  Only its a moon made of money, filled with great swirling seas of credit cards and populated by vast throngs of stupid and overpaid near-humanity.

If ANY MMORPG was as fun as Magic, I'd pay $100 a month, because I wouldn't need to buy any other computer games.

But MMORPGs suck at the moment, am i rite?

Maybe if an MMO said, you pay us per week, and we provide you with 10x better gameplay, I'd play.

Someone needs to make a Magic MMO or a Pokemon MMO, then I'll quit MtGo. Til then - Wizard can have the moneys.

I think with MMOG's, no one really thought people would be quite as addicted to boring-ass repetitive gameplay or that people would actually pay some fuckup in his mom's basement real money for a virtual Barbie Doll house. We can ask Raph, but I'm sure Richard Garriot thought about it and said, "Who the fuck would be stupid enough to pay $1500 for a house that's nothing but data on a server they've never seen? Who would pay money for bits on a hard drive somewhere?"

They weren't even sure people would pay money to play an Ultima game on the Internet.

I've been asking for a mmo game designed around MtG since back when they released the single player game by microprose and it had the world of shandalar.  Hell, I still fire that up when im feeling nostalgic for some type 1 mox action.

Avatar = no brainer,you're a plainswalker who travels from plane to plain seeking magical knowledge to increase your power, you pick your starting primary color and get a base pool and have at it.  Your card library is your advancement mechanism, and battles are straight mtgo type affairs.  There's a ton of backstory and flavor they could develop a world setting from, and it's not like there's any shortages of card to play with.  Only significant challenge would be coming up with a decent npc ai assuming you want to have players be able to pve, but pvp is a done deal.  Make players battle for ante, or bets or fun whatever.  Region locking controlled by area; hell you could design the major areas based on block sets so you could start in one area, work you way up by winning cards until you feel like trying to battle your way into another block area.  

Now that Leaping lizards has already done a good version of magic on the computer which handles the myriad of rules and play, I could easily see this game making the transition to world should someone want to do it.

Xilren

It will never ever happen though Xilren.  Not with MTGo making a killing as they are.  They have their audience.  If they released the game you talk about they would drive a stake through the heart of their current game.  No company will do that.  The only way a MMORPG game will exist is if you pay per card for every card.  Because that is the pricing scheme already entrenched.  If they make an RPG with a fixed monthly cost it will almost certainly be cheaper than the current game for the same gameplay + more.  The current game would be a wasteland in minutes.

Wrong. MtGo as it stands has a lot of crossover between online and offline trade, if they made it so the cards you gathered in the MMORPG STAYED in the MMORPG or were a completely different set, with graphics from the game for the art, if anything they would gain all the people that play Magic and MMO's (I'd say that tops 300k) and MANY MMO people.

Right now, many many many people play MtGo for tournaments and the ability to trade in fake online sets real sets. Just remove this ability from the MMORPG and they're golden.

--They would get an unknown amount of new players.
--They would risk losing all their current MTGo income (if you had a choice of reasonable monthly fee for playing the game and getting virtual cards WITHOUT extra cost or paying for every single virtual card, which would you pick?) [edit] You mention MANY playing to trade in real sets or to trade on ebay and make money.   You have no idea how many people that is or what income they represent vs those just trying to have fun.
--The income per active player would be far less in the new game.
--A new game (especially the AI if you let the computer play) would be costly to make.
--Extra server fees at least initially due to running both games.  People will still want to keep playing the old one for free without buying cards.
--If the old game becomes cost innefective to run, will they have possible class action suits for shutting it down?  The monetary value of the virtual cards is well established and encouraged by WOTC.  All WOTC has on their side is an EULA which probably says they can shut down whenever they want, but is the EULA valid in court?  Huge unknown.  I think it would be since you buy the cards AFTER being presented with it making it a NON blind contract.


You can't look at the knowns and equate that with money in the pocket.  It could cost them money if the new game become initially popular and then interest wanes.  The hardcore few keeping MTGo in the money will no longer be shoveling money to them.  They will be just paying their $15 a month like everyone else.  The non-hardcore will probably lose interest when the next new shiny comes out.

No CFO is going to make that risk.  The degree of that risk can't be weighed with current data.  The amount of players and longterm retention rates are entirely unknown.  And we as board posters don't know the kind of money MTGo is raking in.  It may be lots it may be modest.

I would pay Magic tons of fucking money to come out with a steampunk game based on the exact same rules of Magic. That would just frickin rule. Now that said, I don't think there's enough painters in the world to pain all the necessary cards. It's the only reason why magic only puts a set out every 6 months instead of 1.

I'm having more fun in MtGo than I ever did on am MMO. Someone should license the rules of magic, make their own cards, and make an MMO out of it. Serious. Steampunk mmo, with combat done through card battles based on their system.

That would be luv, am i rite?

Am I the only one who read the rules of Magic: The Gathering and wasn't impressed?  Collectible card games hold absolutely no interest for me.  None.  I just don't see the attraction.  I'm kinda curious, admittedly, because so many other people seem to like them, but I just don't see it.

I pay money to be randomly assigned some cards.  I can pay more money for more randomly assigned cards, if I don't like the ones I got, or lots more for specific cards from a card/gaming shop.  Then, I take a bunch of these, either randomly or picking cards I think are cool/go together, and shuffle them, and draw 5 of them.  This sounds like your average card game, rummy or gin or the like.

You need to play lands, in order to get mana to play creatures and other stuff.  Your creatures attack the opponents creatures or them if they have no creatures left.  If you drop this to the level of what you're doing with the cards, this isn't that different from a card game that is able to be played with a $1.49 pack of poker cards.  Maybe two packs to get enough cards.

Why should I pay $13 for a 'starter deck' + more if I want 'good cards', for the same gameplay I can get from $3 of poker cards, which I can also use to play hundreds of other games with them, or solitaire if my friends can't play right now?

I don't get it.
--
Alkiera

Magic combined the collection frenzy of comics, with the in-depth subtle strategy of role-playing/miniature games, all wrapped around a shell of fantasy where almost anything you could imagine could become a card. CCG's, when well done, are GAMER'S CRACK because of the addictive nature of the collecting aspect.

I actually think Legend of the 5 Rings was a much better card game, at least in the early stages of the game. It was definitely a better multiplayer game than MtG.

Magic will always reign because it came out first.

People graduate from Pokémon and YuGiOh to Magic. It will have generations of life as long as WoTC scales back on some of the power in these new sets. The next set - out of about 135 cards has....22 or so that will be played by ANYONE who can get ahold of them.

You can not get as much fun out of a deck of cards. Magic has, over time, grown to be incredibly strategic. And it's not that your randomly assigned cards that's fun. It's the chance to know whether you're good enough to play with randomly assigned cards. That's the fun of booster draft tournaments and Sealed deck tournaments.

Rumors say they have the next 3 sets of Magic on paper already. As in done (they apparently always try to be a block [3 expansions + 1 main] ahead). But ocmmissioning 15 hired painters to paint 135 high quality paintings is why it takes 6-8 months for a set to come out. Just when people get settled with current strategies a new set is released. It's genius. It makes every single person rethink the game.

Honestly, as geeky as the game is, I truly believe people who insult it just aren't good at it. Or think that people who play it don't get laid. Or some other nonsense.

On the computer (as in MtGO online) it's no more geeky than poker or UT2k4. It's just another computer game.

Ah, sorry wrong room.  Thought this was about Canasta on Yahoo games.  :)

Other then the unreal cost of it all, I agree with you.

Don't think they release these card sets to "mix-it-up" it's to keep them in paper hats made of money.

Alkiera, you can't really understand magic by just reading the rules.  The majority of the rules in the game are on the cards, not in the book.  The majority of the strategy is in the assembly of your own deck.  Smart playing will go a long way, but smart deck building will go further.  The game is quite complex.  Not necessarily more complex than other copycat cardgames, but IMO magic is the best I have played.  There are LOTS I have not played though (like legend of the five rings).

The best way to learn the game is to play face to face with a friend who knows the game well.  Preferably one with varied taste in deck design so you can see how the game plays totally differently with different styles of decks.  There are just so many ways to win.

Part of my lack of interest is a lack of people to play with, I've never actually played the game, so I decide to give the online version a chance... download the client, only to find that the server is down, the online store I apparently have to use to set up an account is down...  I guess I'm lucky the server the download was on, and the website itself, was up at all.

Well, I'll try again tonight, I guess, unless I find something more interesting to do.

--
Alkiera

The server is down to make database updates. Should be back up by now. There's a new expansion coming out called Fifth Dawn, I believe the release date is the 17th.

Can anyone confirm if it is up or down now?  Trying for a free trial still tells me the server is down ATM.

It's up. Free trial no longer exists because it's entirely unnecessary.

In that they have enough players, or what?  I've been led to understand I have to pay $9.99 to activate an actual account.  They admittedly then give me that back to pay for stuff in the store, but I still have to pay it.  Is this no longer the case?  The 'free trial' as I understood it, let you play only with pre-constructed 'theme' decks, against other trial people using those same decks, or something, but required no account set up and associated fees.

--
Alkiera

Correct, you have to pay $9.99, but you get a $9.99 coupon for the store. The best way to spend this would be to ...well. How long have you been playing Magic? PM me with details.

As far as Magic goes, I'm a complete and utter n00b.  I mentioned before that I downloaded the game to try and see if I could figure out why people were so obsessive about it, as I'd never played it before.  Apparently one day too late to do so for free.

*sigh*

Having read some about the game, on the website, I'm amused that the colors(and themes) of M:tG magic co-ordinate exactly with the types of magic in Master of Magic...  being life, death, nature, chaos, and sorcery.  This further attracts me.  I still have a desire to know if I find gameplay completely revolting before I pay $10.

--
Alkiera

No one finds the gameplay revolting. At least not gamers.

However. If you play irl, you'll find the people at comic book stores revolting.

Actually, the place I've seen people playing here doesn't sell comic books at all, as far as I know.  Just gaming stuff, from board games, to CCGs, standard PnP RPGs, to all the fluff for those miniatures games.  They have numerous tables in the back for gaming, and a room in the back with ~15 computers(use charged on hourly rate) for electronic gaming, both LAN and internet stuff.

On the other hand, most of the people playing minis or Magic games there do have that less than appealing aura.

--
Alkiera

Well that blows.  I was really hoping for the free thing, even if it was just watching a match or two.  Coupons do not make the free trial unnecessary.

Trust me when I say the game is more fun than any other mmo out there at the moment. And the service itself is free. So if you can limit yourself to $15 or so bucks a month, you'll get a lot more enjoyment out of it. If you know the right people $15 bucks a month can get you 300 uncommons adn 600 commons.

Schild.  Go and send Alkiera $10 on paypall or something and have her use her $10 coupon buying stuff you want and then giving it to you (10 tickets for example)

That way Alkiera can get in for free like she wants and you spend $10 like you would have on tickets or cards anyway.  Just a suggestion.  For this to work, the game would have to allow you to still play with starter packs for free...  if that is not the case then she would need her $10 to buy a starter pack.

Alternatively, maybe she would be far more likely to pay the $10 if she had someone to teach her the basics and give her an idea of what kind of advanced strategies exist if she decides to learn it well.  I am not sure if you are into the training thing or not.

The way it ought to be:

Download and install the software for free.  Upon creation of a free account, the player is given the option of picking one of 5 or so pre-constructed 60-card theme decks defined in newbie-speak (the Fire Deck, the Woodlands Deck, etc.).  

With this the player can actually play against other freebie-players and invited friends (so they can tussle with buddies already in) for a week.  After that the player has the option of walking away, or submitting his CC info, paying $9.99, and either keeping the starter deck or getting a new, random 60-card pack.

That's pretty close to what it actually was.

I guess after 2 years they decided to scrap it for some reason.

It' still worth 10 bucks for a look see.  Consider, your average mmorpg you have to buy a $50 box to get a "free trial" month.  With MTGO you pay 9.99 to activate your account, and get 9.99 worth of product to try it and you account remains open forever.

Xilren

This just in the free trial server for MTGO is back up[/quote].  SO give it a look see.

Xilren (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=8a7ff784e868bbda1a1fd5f5db817644&threadid=272404)

I started a new thread for that.