f13.net

f13.net General Forums => MMOG Discussion => Topic started by: eldaec on June 23, 2004, 01:57:59 AM



Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on June 23, 2004, 01:57:59 AM
http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1549.shtml for the full notes.

- 8x increase in xp for rvr.
- Much more complicated keep upgrade schema.
- Frontiers all joined up
- Battlegrounds starting at level 1.
- Group sidekicking.
- RA rejig - mostly favouring lower power - short cool down powers, instead of long timered 'I win' buttons.
- Supply line teleportation system - intended to encourage a 'front line' to form.
- SI engine upgraded to ToA engine regardless of whether you have ToA.
- Relic changes designed to prevent raids being entirely about surprise.
- gtaoe/pbaoe effects no longer pass through walls.
- Nothing to prevent buffbotting. :(

Anyone still playing and able to comment on how the above works?


Title: Re: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on June 23, 2004, 05:01:51 AM
Quote from: eldaec
http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1549.shtml for the full notes.

- 8x increase in xp for rvr.
- Much more complicated keep upgrade schema.
- Frontiers all joined up
- Battlegrounds starting at level 1.
- Group sidekicking.
- RA rejig - mostly favouring lower power - short cool down powers, instead of long timered 'I win' buttons.
- Supply line teleportation system - intended to encourage a 'front line' to form.
- SI engine upgraded to ToA engine regardless of whether you have ToA.
- Relic changes designed to prevent raids being entirely about surprise.
- gtaoe/pbaoe effects no longer pass through walls.
- Nothing to prevent buffbotting. :(

Anyone still playing and able to comment on how the above works?


I didn't do the new battlegrounds when I was checking it out on test server, but I did do regular RvR on Pendragon. The supply line/teleportation system works great. It also makes it more interesting in terms of travel. With a supply line, you can get back into the RvR action in much less time than in the past when you had to wait for ports. Now, you don't port to frontiers, you zone into yours and then either teleport via supply line to the fort you need to go to (yours or enemy's) or if there is no supply chain, you run which can take longer as there is an ocean between the realms now.

You can attack boat to boat in RvR which I thought was very cool, but it's no quite so piratical in that you have cannons or anything. That would be cool, but I digress.

The largest keep I saw was a level 3. It was fucking huge. I cannot imagine the scale of a level 10 keep, or even imagine that anyone will get one any time soon.

Seige weaponry is now an absolute must. You cannot take keeps without them. Each keep has 3 guard towers than can be taken as well which provide rally points for the attackers.

Seiges were lasting on the order of 45 minutes to several hours when I was testing. The initial portion of which involved mostly trading of fire with seige weapons on both sides.

The walls of keeps of course can be knocked down now so you don't have to use just one door to try to get in now. Wherever you can knock a hole, you can enter.

Repairs can only be made to a portion of the keep that is not under direct fire. If you try to repair a wall and it gets hit in the middle of the repair, the repair fails. So no more repairing while under direct attack. This is a good thing.

DoTs can no longer be cast on doors to exploit the AE nature of some of them.

Didn't notice a graphics difference as I was already playing with the ToZ expansion, but the ToA graphics are quite nice and the new fort graphics are well done and are much better laid out as well.

Overall, they did a great job on the expansion. I haven't had the opportunity to check out the "sidekick" system as the character I tested with was already level 50. Also, I didn't notice a huge experience difference in RvR, but again, my character is already level 50. I think that experience difference will impact the battelgrounds more anyhow. Also, it says 8x more than they were previously awarded for killing an enemy in RvR. It wasn't much before, but the 8x increase is pretty decent considering it will allow people to further their character while enjoying the fun aspect of the game.

The RA redo is pretty nice as well. This didn't impact me a whole lot as a Healer, but I noticed that I wasn't getting wtfpwned by "I win" buttons during testing. Master Levels still seem to play a large role in RvR though. Luckily a lot of the ML powers are static AE so a lot of people can benefit from them (Power Fonts, Regen Fonts, etc.), but they are still almost a necessity now in RvR and seiges.

Anyhow, those are just some of my thoughts from testing it over the past several weeks.


Title: Re: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Zephyr on June 23, 2004, 06:47:47 AM
Quote from: Soukyan
You can attack boat to boat in RvR which I thought was very cool, but it's no quite so piratical in that you have cannons or anything. That would be cool, but I digress.


Quote
Scout Boat - Requires at least one person to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 8.
Galleon - Requires at least two people to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 16. The galleon has two siege hookpoints.
Warship - Requires at least four people to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 32. The warship has four siege hookpoints.


Not quite cannons, but it is still siege equipment on boats.  :)


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Glamdring on June 23, 2004, 07:05:01 AM
I always liked DAOC except for the high end level grind.  Does this do anything to alleviate that aspect of the game?  Is it still just as much of a pain in the ass to be competitive in RvR?


Title: Re: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on June 23, 2004, 07:15:52 AM
Quote from: Zephyr
Quote from: Soukyan
You can attack boat to boat in RvR which I thought was very cool, but it's no quite so piratical in that you have cannons or anything. That would be cool, but I digress.


Quote
Scout Boat - Requires at least one person to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 8.
Galleon - Requires at least two people to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 16. The galleon has two siege hookpoints.
Warship - Requires at least four people to launch at minimum speed and has a total capacity of 32. The warship has four siege hookpoints.


Not quite cannons, but it is still siege equipment on boats.  :)


Fucking awesome! I did not realize that. Close enough for me.

And yes, Glamdring, it's still a bit of a pain to compete. To be fair, you don't really need any Master Levels because there are enough people out there with multiple Master Levels and since their abilities affect everyone within range, it's fairly easy to gain the benefits without having to catass for them yourself. On the other hand, you still get rolled unless you're 50 and have spellcrafted armor (or some really nice ToA drops). Also, realm rank 5 is the place to be these days as they got rid of all the class specific realm abilities and made new class specific ones that you get for free when you obtain realm rank 5. There are, of course, a couple with the potential to be new "I win" buttons but we shall see how those play out. So yes, level 50 with SC armor and (preferably) realm rank 5 is the place to be these days. There's still a fairly huge barrier to entry for new players in terms of time commitment. However, the fact that you can RvR starting at level one now (in battelgrounds of course) allows for people to get right into the fun gameplay of their RvR system. And they now have battlegrounds that go all the way up to 44 as well (guess they finally realized that the boredom factor from level 36-45 was wretched enough to warrant giving those people some action too. Of course, those new battlegrounds could also be boring if you have no enemies to fight at a given time, so your best bet is to make sure you jump on the largest population server you can find. At least then you're always guaranteed some action.

Short version: Nothing has been put in to alleviate the high level grind, but there's a lot more RvR oriented fun stuff to at least distract you from it for a bit.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Numtini on June 23, 2004, 07:24:24 AM
Call me when they get rid of buffbots.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Sable Blaze on June 23, 2004, 08:16:24 AM
They ever fix the defensive classes? The fact that shields never did a damned thing in RvR always annoyed me to no end.

I never cared for the armor model either (was stupid), but I suppose you have to make some gamey additions here for balance.

I also wonder how this will play out on Gaheris.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Zephyr on June 23, 2004, 08:29:31 AM
I have only recently gotten around to sorting out my SC suit.  Of course I die faster than others, but I still have a good time.  With pbae not going through walls anymore, I will really need those resists to survive the magic barrage while the tanks bodyguard me.  

I haven't had much of a chance to get into NF yet.  Most of this morning was spent grabbing the rare artifacts for guildies while everyone was out in the frontiers.  :P


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: kaid on June 23, 2004, 08:40:19 AM
That sounds very good I just wish I had it in me to do the level up thing because that kind of pvp appeals to me. My problem has always been the leveling up process in DAOC bores the piss out of me. Not sure what it is but I always found it really kinda blah and I am a guy who dosn't really mind the treadmill.


Kaid


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on June 23, 2004, 08:40:43 AM
Jeebus, that almost makes me want to play again. The fact that I could start a new character and RVR from level 1, provided of course there was anyone to RVR with, tempts me with the taste of nuts and honey. Especially considering that you get 8x the exp. from RVR now.

I may actually have the ability to play without reupping, as my fiancee's little brother has an account.

I will be strong.

/mumbles "The power of PVP compels me... the power of PVP compels me..."


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on June 23, 2004, 09:19:42 AM
Quote from: HaemishM
Jeebus, that almost makes me want to play again. The fact that I could start a new character and RVR from level 1, provided of course there was anyone to RVR with, tempts me with the taste of nuts and honey. Especially considering that you get 8x the exp. from RVR now.


Problem is, you typically kill yellows in rvr, purples in pve. That takes care of the 8x modifier straight away. Then you kill people at a rate I'd say must be about 10% that of the npc kill rate in pve, and you often share the kill with twice as many people.

25% of each level from taking the keep is nice - but again, before 1.70 you could gain about 90% of one level in every 5 by keep taking using the medal of valour system.

If you enjoy battleground play in it's own right this is, of course, irrelevant. But you could battleground to your heart's content using /level 20 before this patch (assuming you had a lv 50 somewhere). Also, without xp modifiers that approach pve levelling rate, it's likely that only the level 20-24 bg will have a workable population of enemies.

Could be worth a month's subs to try it out while the novelty is in effect ofc.

And when, exactly, was the last time most posters here managed to stay subbed to anything for more than a couple of months straight? ;)


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Furiously on June 23, 2004, 11:54:52 AM
No - the problem is the zerg.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on June 23, 2004, 01:02:43 PM
I played this a little on Pendragon as a Hero and found that the melee classes have little to no role in keep sieges (unless you enjoy getting cast at and shot full of arrows while beating on a door).  Casters and the new FOTM archers with volley seem to be the trend.  Zerg for teh win will still exist, but with the keep fortification, melee classes are fast becoming RP cows for the ranged classes.  Sadly, I think this will be a recurring nightmare for any game employing pvp in which there are ranged and melee classes within the same game framework.  There's just no good way to balance them.  

As for buffbots, more accounts = more $$$.  Until Mythic loses more accounts than they gain in buffbots, there's no financial reason for them to really do anything about it.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on June 23, 2004, 02:56:34 PM
There's too much to say about this patch from the design point of view but I'll dodge this part.

Anyway, levelling exclusively in PvP is not possible:

1- Not enough players to fight to cover all the ranges up to level 44 (and here is great the idea of instancing the BGs to make them completely server-undependent, so you balance the numbers and also always offer players to fight).

2- No way to earn equipment and money without a massive grind.

This means that the new BGs aren't at all an alternate advancement path but just a new toy to fiddle with for who is able to twink and min/max freely to own newbies.

Then I played on Merlin for about six hours yesterday. Festival of crashes, when I wasn't crashing I had around 12 seconds of delay. Plus a terrible framerate added to terrible memory leaks.

The first part (net lag and crashes) is just a temporary issue and I expect Mythic to fix it, the second is due to one of the most terrible engines on the market (well, at least if we don't consider Shadowbane).

Still, my experience has been *terrible* from the "fun" point of view and not considering the technical difficulties.

Basically 90% of those six hours has been about swaying in front of a keep to wait I don't know who or what. 8% was about riding on hyperlagged bugged boats. 1% running freely in enemy territory till a random tower to attack. And the last 1% about getting zerged by 80+ enemy players (and here the client dies due to lag and the server crashes).

Now I'll have to see how this changes with the days but I'm not sure if I'll log in DAoC or continue to level my toon in WoW to see how's the PvP there.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Morfiend on June 23, 2004, 04:36:25 PM
I spent so much time grinding my Shadowblade up to level 50. Ugh it was horrible. But that carrot of RVR kept me going. I was now level 50, and I had almosta full set of SCed armor. I was a can of asswhooping just waiting to be unleashed on the RVR world. Seriously, not two days later, they nerfed Shadowblades so badly, 70% of them quit.

This was the last straw for me. I dont think I can EVER bring myself to play another game by Mythic.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: NiX on June 23, 2004, 05:45:37 PM
If anyone wants to restart (on lancelot) I'll PL you with my Necro. One time deal for F13 members only!

I'll PL you Haemish if you let me hug you.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on June 23, 2004, 06:15:24 PM
Quote from: HRose
His experience on patch day


In defense of Mythic, it was patch day of the biggest free expansion yet. The engine runs just fine. They may not have very stable patch days, but they are still better than EQ ever was at it. Try NF again in about a week when the excitement has died down and the patch server has recovered. The lag you were getting was their bandwidth getting destroyed by all the people patching. Boats are just fine in the new frontiers and if you were standing around with your thumb up your ass, you should have been setting up some seige equipment and firing at the keep you were supposed to be taking. I know it might seem like a crazy idea, but that's one way to contribute as a melee player. And then once the wall is knocked down, you can steamroll in and lay some smack down. Did you expect Mythic to just hand you some casters to kill on a platter? I would think players would enjoy a little strategy in a game. It can make for some fun.

They've got their RvR down. I just can't stand it because leveling in that game is detestable to me. I can't figure out why. I think it's just a matter of having burned out and not being able to recapture that drive to level. *shrug* That aside, they did a fine job on the New Frontiers expansion.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on June 23, 2004, 07:11:49 PM
I'm writing this while I wait to log in Merlin since it died again.

Boat code is ok? On my server players joke about them all the time:
- Why my boat is flying?
- Because it drank a Red Bull.

It was and still is the most bugged thing added in the game. Laggy boats melting together, flying in the sky and moving awkwardly and so on.

Then the client doesn't run ok here. Due to insane memory leaks after some time I have less than 8 FPS with nothing on screen, imagine when there are two zergs and a huge keep along with various siege engines.

With no lag and solid FPS it could be really good. But it's like asking the same thing in Shadowbane.

I cannot play, in a week with no net lag I'll still have an unusable client.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on June 23, 2004, 07:17:02 PM
Quote from: HRose
I'm writing this while I wait to log in Merlin since it died again.

Boat code is ok? On my server players joke about them all the time:
- Why my boat is flying?
- Because it drank a Red Bull.

It was and still is the most bugged thing added in the game. Laggy boats melting together, flying in the sky and moving awkwardly and so on.

Then the client doesn't run ok here. Due to insane memory leaks after some time I have less than 8 FPS with nothing on screen, imagine when there are two zergs and a huge keep along with various siege engines.

With no lag and solid FPS it could be really good. But it's like asking the same thing in Shadowbane.

I cannot play, in a week with no net lag I'll still have an unusable client.


What are your system specs? I've been playing on Lancelot and Guinevere the past month or two and I'm not seeing those problems myself, even in large scale RvR. I've seen people bitch about the ToA client also, but it gives me the best performance of all the client versions released.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Mjodthorri on June 23, 2004, 09:49:24 PM
Heh, so many things to comment upon.

Quote from: Glamdring
I always liked DAOC except for the high end level grind.  Does this do anything to alleviate that aspect of the game?  Is it still just as much of a pain in the ass to be competitive in RvR?


No, and more of a pain in the ass than before ToA, respectively, IMO. The high end level grind is at its worst starting at 45 and in my opinion extends to include much PvE in Atlantis. (I disagree with Soukyan on whether you need master levels to compete, but that's a separate essay, and may vary by server or possibly as a result of New Frontiers.) The new battlegrounds only extend to level 44 and the new quasi-sidekicking will only increase your level to 90% of the group leader's, i.e. a maximum of 45, so neither will impact the high end level grind.  (On the other hand, they will both reduce the low end level grind; on Pendragon I went from level 5 to level 7 in about an hour in the battlegrounds. Not powerlevelling, but it was fun gaming so no complaints.)  In theory you could try to level from 45 to 50 by frontier RvR, which would be more feasible for some classes than others.

The new battlegrounds probably aren't a big deal if you already have a 50, but they dramatically increase access to RvR if you don't. Also, the new rewards for battleground keep taking are much better than the old ones. Previously, you had to both participate in a keep capture and cap out realm points to get the old reward for the keep capture. I've done each thing on several different characters, but I've never done both on the same character. The new reward, you capture the keep and you get the reward. Simple, sweet, works. Further, under the old system there was no reason to try to capture the keep of one of the notoriously empty battlegrounds, because you would never find enough foes to cap out realm points. With the new system, an empty battleground is a fast quarter-level.

Buffbots. They've taken a couple of steps over the last month or two which... effected... buffbots:

- You can now move characters from an existing account to a new one (for a fee, of course.) So if you happened to have one account with DPS characters and buffing characters, you can now buy a new account and move the buffing characters to that account, rather than having to level new ones.

Quote from: eldaec
- Nothing to prevent buffbotting. :(


- An innovation with this patch is "/clientsleep", which allows you to run a DAoC instance without generating screen output, which greatly reduces the demands on your machine's hardware from, for example, running two instances of DAoC at once. Isn't Mythic thoughtful?

Quote from: Nebu
As for buffbots, more accounts = more $$$. Until Mythic loses more accounts than they gain in buffbots, there's no financial reason for them to really do anything about it.


It's even worse than that, I'm afraid. It's very easy for them to document how much money they get from (second accounts with very low bandwidth useage and no customer support calls). It's not nearly so easy for them to document how many people cancel because of bb's who wouldn't cancel otherwise, how many people might renew but don't because of bb's, or how many potential sales they lose because of bad word of mouth or absence of good word of mouth from people who are unhappy because of bb's.

A couple of RL friends of mine have spent, I estimate, $300 in 2004 on MMO's that I've recommended to them. Not a cent of that has gone to Mythic, but all Mythic sees is that noone's cancelled.

Quote from: Soukyan
I just can't stand it because leveling in that game is detestable to me. I can't figure out why.


Well, levelling in DAoC is basically the PvE game from EverQuest, no?  After DAoC, I played Anarchy Online and City of Heroes, but I haven't played EQ. Let's look at some differences between these games' PvE.

- Pulling in DAoC is much easier than pulling in Anarchy Online/City of Heroes and, I presume, EQ. Difficult pulling means bad pulls which mean unexpected (and challenging) variety in play; easy pulling means very straightforward and repetitive play.

- Significant loot in (pre-ToA) DAoC is nonexistent, whereas Anarchy Online and City of Heroes have significant loot. (Significant loot in CoH includes enhancements and the xp awards for finishing some missions.)  Loot in DAoC (not counting ToA) is not normally used in its own right but is converted, one way or another, into cash. So the only goal of DAoC's PvE is to get xp, and the best way to do that is pulling large but safe mobs rapidly (death = downtime = poor xp/minute). In AO and presumably EQ, the prospect of good loot which will make your character better than other characters of similar or slightly higher level can make dangerous fights more advantageous than farming easy mobs.

- In DAoC-Hibernia (where I played) area crowd control is almost nonexistent, partly for spec reasons and partly because the effectiveness of PBAoE makes CC very ineffective for level grinding.

- I've heard people say that in EQ, exchanging class B for class A in your group can lead to a complete change in the group's strategy and the player's gaming experience. This is true in my experience in AO and CoH, too. But in DAoC-Hibernia, at least, you have a few support classes and a bunch of DPS/tanking classes, which for the most part play the same as each other in PvE (e.g. in PvE a nightshade is a hero with low DPS, low defence, and limited aggro management tools), and even when they do play differently (e.g. animists) they do so by making the other DPS classes basically bystanders.

Now, in fairness to Mythic, many of these issues are addressed in ToA PvE, but for the most part that happens after levelling is complete. So levelling in DAoC is essentially EQ/AO levelling with challenging pulling, loot, varied groups, and much CC removed. There's a reason your subconscious is telling you it's lame :).


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on June 24, 2004, 05:31:41 AM
Quote from: Nebu
I played this a little on Pendragon as a Hero and found that the melee classes have little to no role in keep sieges (unless you enjoy getting cast at and shot full of arrows while beating on a door).


Even before NF this wasn't really true if you are playing organised guild rvr.

Melee classes should be operating siege machinery (as well as more passive roles hitting doors and guarding others).

Siege machinery has become more critical in this patch - though how much more is yet to be determined.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on June 24, 2004, 09:14:45 AM
Quote from: eldaec
Melee classes should be operating siege machinery (as well as more passive roles hitting doors and guarding others).


Yes, you are correct and this (imo) is NOT FUN.  Mythic will see many melee classes making new toons and/or cancelling in a few weeks after the new expansion comes into the game.  If I'm a Merc/Berz/BM I'd like to think that the whole purpose of my existence is to run toons through with a sword, not bash doors or run a siege engine.  

I don't know why I even bother posting this... we all know that the pvp system in DAoC is badly broken.  The only real positives I see from this expansion were finally fixing the "through wall" ae casting and limiting rp expenditures to force players to come up with a player concept rather than using template_x.  Likely it will resort to templates anyway once it is discovered how many of the new skills are broken/not worth the RP's.

As for me personally, many people back in the day made celtic spear weilding offensive heros to enjoy some offensive ability on the battlefield.  The new system has relegated the hero to a board toting, bodyguard that stands next to either a healer or a ranged player while waiting to donate rp's to some other relam's caster/archer/stealther.  

Ultimately, Mythic did me a favor... I now have $15 more a month to spend on something else.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on June 24, 2004, 09:17:17 AM
Ok, so I'm fucking nuts. I installed the SI client from the download last night, downloaded the Frontiers stuff and made a new character on a server where I know absolutely no one. I'm playing on my future brother-in-law's account.

OMFG THIS GAME IS SO GODDAMN SLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!

Running is slow. Sprinting is slow. After the adrenaline rush of City of Heroes, I feel like I overdosed on goddamn qualudes. I got a rogue to level 3, in less than an hour and logged off because it was late. I plan on trying the level 1-4 battlegrounds tonight, and if nothing is kicking there, leveling up to 5 to become a scout and trying the higher battlegrounds.

Don't tell me scouts are gimped, don't give a fuck. I just wanted to make a character to stealth gank motherfuckers with pointy arrows. If I find the PVP in the battlegrounds isn't fun, I won't bother really trying to level anything.

After CoH, which has slow leveling after the first 15 levels, I'm not sure I can level in something that plays as slowly as DAoC.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on June 24, 2004, 09:24:57 AM
Haemish,

If you want to avoid total frustration, go to a server where you know someone.  When you hit the BG's you'll find people farming each other like mobs for exp and most of your opponents will be complete with twinked gear.  Granted, gear doesn't make a huge difference but as an archer having the best bow for your level and high end arrows will make all the difference.  

The game IS slow.  It's EQ slow without the variety of zones to whack foozles.  With friends you can at least run with bard/minstrel/skald speed.  For added pleasure, the levelling treadmill becomes most apparent at level 30.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on June 24, 2004, 09:42:55 AM
The speed thing is a problem pve,  or anywhere when you are travelling. I never found it an issue when actually engaged in pvp though - where if anything things are over too fast.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on June 24, 2004, 09:46:52 AM
Quote
If I'm a Merc/Berz/BM I'd like to think that the whole purpose of my existence is to run toons through with a sword, not bash doors or run a siege engine.


ok, I'll bite - what *should* a light tank be able to do in a siege if it isn't using a short bow, guarding ranged classes, operating machinery, bracing doors, killing guards, or breaking doors?


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2004, 09:59:14 AM
Obviously a light tank should be wtfpwning casters in two hits!  YAAAARGH!


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on June 24, 2004, 10:11:56 AM
Quote from: eldaec
The speed thing is a problem pve,  or anywhere when you are travelling. I never found it an issue when actually engaged in pvp though - where if anything things are over too fast.


I agree completely.  In a heated battle it's often a matter of hearing the lovely sound of crowd control followed by instant death.

Quote from: eldaec
ok, I'll bite - what *should* a light tank be able to do in a siege if it isn't using a short bow, guarding ranged classes, operating machinery, bracing doors, killing guards, or breaking doors?


Light tanks get their utility in taking down opponents quickly in melee combat using high damage/weak defense templates.  I see no role for light tanks in seiges until the doors swing open.  I'm also starting to think that their only role may be relegated to sitting out of harm's way until the doors have been broken down and then rushing in to kill anything in their path.  The latter part would be fun, but the former seems pretty damn boring.

We're talking about a game here... I play games to have fun.  Sieges are not fun for melee classes unless you get some thrill from standing next to a caster/healer/archer, beating on a door, or operating a machine.  I'd prefer more options for open battlefield battles rather than the RvR becoming all about castle siege.  

I left DAoC for a number of reasons, one of which being the direction the game was taking and the complete lack of balance between many classes in RvR.  Granted, their attempts at balance were supposedly from a group vs. group vision rather than indivual players, but even the group dynamics have been distorted with Fronteirs.  

What class do you play?


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on June 24, 2004, 10:36:15 AM
Quote from: Nebu
Quote from: eldaec
The speed thing is a problem pve,  or anywhere when you are travelling. I never found it an issue when actually engaged in pvp though - where if anything things are over too fast.


I agree completely.  In a heated battle it's often a matter of hearing the lovely sound of crowd control followed by instant death.

Quote from: eldaec
ok, I'll bite - what *should* a light tank be able to do in a siege if it isn't using a short bow, guarding ranged classes, operating machinery, bracing doors, killing guards, or breaking doors?


Light tanks get their utility in taking down opponents quickly in melee combat using high damage/weak defense templates.  I see no role for light tanks in seiges until the doors swing open.  I'm also starting to think that their only role may be relegated to sitting out of harm's way until the doors have been broken down and then rushing in to kill anything in their path.  The latter part would be fun, but the former seems pretty damn boring.

We're talking about a game here... I play games to have fun.  Sieges are not fun for melee classes unless you get some thrill from standing next to a caster/healer/archer, beating on a door, or operating a machine.  I'd prefer more options for open battlefield battles rather than the RvR becoming all about castle siege.  

I left DAoC for a number of reasons, one of which being the direction the game was taking and the complete lack of balance between many classes in RvR.  Granted, their attempts at balance were supposedly from a group vs. group vision rather than indivual players, but even the group dynamics have been distorted with Fronteirs.  

What class do you play?


Historically, a light tank was doing one of those aforementioned things during a seige. But mostly, infantry were getting mowed down by archers and when the doors/walls finally fell, then the guess in the back line, or those smart enough to go turtle, got to go in and hack archers up with their swords.

Now, I realize that historically, they didn't have wizards hurling fireballs either, but they did have fire arrows, boiling oil (very cool new feature of NF IMO), ladders, seige engines, etc. Mythic is trying to recreate a fairly historically accurate representation of large scale medieval warfare. They've done a pretty damn good job of it. The problem is is that some of the players don't want this. They want back Emain Macha so they can just run around in gank groups all day. Well, that was not their intent for their PvP system. Do you remember when they patched in new ram graphics to make them more historically accurate in appearance? The players bitched up a storm so they changed them.

Sure, their system can use some work, but you also don't have to stand there as a melee and do nothing. In a fort take last week, I was playing my Berserker. I ran the seige ram for a bit and decided I wanted to do something more exciting. I rallied a group of people with me and we ran a path surrounding the fort doing hit and run harassments to defenders who were stupid enough to come outside and we also made a circuit of the fort while doing this so we were able to shut down the supply line as it were and prevent more defenders from getting to the fort.

The new system encourages more strategic play. It's quite fun, but you have to enjoy strategy and probably have to enjoy the slower pace as well. It does take a hell of a lot longer to take forts now. I don't see a problem with it myself because I'll still log off when I am done playing regardless of whether the fort take is complete or not. And really, this mimics deaths on the battlefield. ;) But I digress. As I said, overall they did a good job with making the RvR system true to what they envisioned for it.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on June 24, 2004, 11:13:08 AM
Get rid of buffers and casters and I'd enjoy a strategic simulation grounded in some historical context.  That's not happening.

You do make some very good points though Soukyan about the role of light infantry in disrupting the addition of defense and supply lines.  Use of this would add an interesting dynamic to the game.  Slowing down rvr for strategy is a good idea... slowing down the rate of death would be good as well (not to mention a need to eliminate cc).  Making seiges last hours may or may not be a good idea though it certainly does cater to the hardcore.  

As for the role of melee, I will continue to assert that the role of light infantry is still poised more toward field battles and skirmishes.  I have to admit that I am happy to see a context beyond the emain mentality.  I was initially excited about this expansion eliminating the zerg on zerg conflicts that were the typical rvr experience.  Now, it seems that melee will be relegated to the role of cheap labor and meatshields.  This isn't an unreasonable role, but it's not one that I find very fun.  I enjoy RvR more for the opportunity to participate in PvP.  It's safe to say that Mythic wants to create an RvR experience geared more toward taking real estate than about PvP conflict.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Sable Blaze on June 24, 2004, 11:14:20 AM
Although I can applaud Mythic for trying to make RvR more than a cheating gankfest, calling this game historically accurate is just...well, fiction.

I realize this is a "feel" the devs are aiming for, but one look at their armor model just puts this to the lie. It's so far from any historical underpinnings it's laughable. Same for weapon effects. We won't even go into the shield fiasco, I'll just lump it into the armor foolishness. Yeah, it's for balance, but it gripes me every time I see it.

Now that I've got that out of my system, I'll say it almost sounds interesting. I still detest statistical PvP, but admittedly it's almost enough to tempt me to go back to my highlander armswoman on Bedevere.

Almost...


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on June 24, 2004, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: HaemishM
OMFG THIS GAME IS SO GODDAMN SLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!


Play a minstrel, it's one of the best classes.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on June 24, 2004, 12:15:29 PM
The day I play a fruity fucking bard type with a lute and sparklies that does nothing but whore out mana regen and speed songs, is the day I start wearing granny panties with frilly lace and giving Nix that man-love hugging he so desperately craves.

In other words, no motherfucking way.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on June 24, 2004, 12:49:43 PM
Quote from: HaemishM
The day I play a fruity fucking bard type with a lute and sparklies that does nothing but whore out mana regen and speed songs, is the day I start wearing granny panties with frilly lace and giving Nix that man-love hugging he so desperately craves.

In other words, no motherfucking way.


Stealth, stun, shout, mez, charm and weapon spec 4 teh win!

Sparklies are just an added bonus. ;)


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Rasix on June 24, 2004, 01:00:09 PM
Quote from: Soukyan
Quote from: HaemishM
The day I play a fruity fucking bard type with a lute and sparklies that does nothing but whore out mana regen and speed songs, is the day I start wearing granny panties with frilly lace and giving Nix that man-love hugging he so desperately craves.

In other words, no motherfucking way.


Stealth, stun, shout, mez, charm and weapon spec 4 teh win!

Sparklies are just an added bonus. ;)


A fruity bard with stealth capabilities, a longsword on his belt, and a tactical nuke emerging from his lute is still a fruity bard.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Signe on June 24, 2004, 01:18:02 PM
I love bards and I don't think they're fruity at all.  They are poetic and sensitive to the needs of a woman.  They're usually quite handsome, too.

The fact that you can trade clothes is just an added bonus.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on June 24, 2004, 01:18:24 PM
People play minstrels and skalds because they are fairly low skill classes.  I've seen skilled players able to solo kill 4-5 players with a skald (Mid version of the minstrel/bard).  Bards are a different story as they are more designed for a support role.

I think your choice of scout is a good one.  They are a challenge and fun to play (coupled to ranged/stealth utility) as well as making the early BG's interesting.  I HIGHLY recommend that you either get fletching to 500 to be able to amke some good arrows and a bow or play on a server with someone that can get you set up.

The level appropriate stuff will have you dying all over the place.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on June 24, 2004, 02:41:18 PM
Quote from: Nebu

I left DAoC for a number of reasons, one of which being the direction the game was taking and the complete lack of balance between many classes in RvR.  Granted, their attempts at balance were supposedly from a group vs. group vision rather than indivual players, but even the group dynamics have been distorted with Fronteirs.  

What class do you play?


I played a cleric - so to be fair, what the team was doing was usually just scenery to me.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on June 25, 2004, 04:53:18 PM
Quote from: Mythic
Q: I am getting the promised 8X experience in RVR (compared to pre-New Frontiers). However, my artifacts are not leveling faster.

A: The experience boost is just for your level, not the artifact level.


How very depressing.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on June 28, 2004, 09:13:46 AM
Motherfucker.

That's all I can say. I am a weak weak man. I just went out and bought the gold box (with DAoC and Shrouded Isles) and have reupped.

Since I was playing on a borrowed account, I realized I could do /level up to 20 and get a good taste of RVR Battleground action, since no one seems to be in the lower level battlegrounds. I participated in a battleground siege over the weekend as a chump level 20 with no crafted gear, no spell resists, etc.

And I fucking loved it.

Yeah, it's going to take leveling, and no, the PVE, while not terrible is much slower and less interesting than CoH. I picked a scout because I don't want to have to depend on a group/guild for RVR action, nor do I want to feel the need to catass my life away because of any obligation to a guild. Maybe it'll only last a month.

I didn't get ToA because I'm not sure my computer can run it, and because I KNOW that requires much catassing.

It's definitely a better game than when I left it over 2 years ago. Luckily, I never left because of burnout with this particular game so much as the soul-draining responsibilities of guild leadership killed me. I'm enjoying it.

God help me, I'm enjoying it. I'm keeping CoH as well, because I can pickup that game anytime and play.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Rasix on June 28, 2004, 09:17:40 AM
Somewhere an angel lost its wings...


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on June 28, 2004, 09:36:29 AM
Quote from: HaemishM
I didn't get ToA because I'm not sure my computer can run it


If you can run NF - you should be able to run ToA. Everyone got the ToA engine as part of NF.

That said, you don't need ToA till you are 40+ anyway.

(And contrary to popular belief, you *can* do some ToA stuff without epic catassing. You just have to be careful what you go for - none of the MLs require significantly greater catassery than a CoH TF.)


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Krakrok on June 28, 2004, 03:49:40 PM
I ended up downloading the 7 day free trial (being a cheapscate and not wanting to pay $10 to reup my old account or pay for SI) to check out the new RvR.

I picked a skald this time because running slow sucks and everyone likes fast run in their group.

The PvE still sucks. However, it was relatively easy to level doing PvP only (post lvl 4). There wasn't much action in the lvl 1-4 battleground so I did have to group PvE to get to level 5. After I got to 5 I joined the 5-10 battleground and leveled to 9 only doing PvP. There were plenty of players to kill on Merlin in the battleground.

I seemed to level faster at the lower end range of the 5-10 because most everyone was a higher level. Getting lucky breaks and killing red and purple players was giving 1.5k-3k per player (even with bunk gear). Being a melee class against ranged wasn't that great but if you can get in close to a caster or a stealther and wack the shit out of them they die pretty quick.

I also took my lvl 2 toon out to check out a siege in the frontiers. Midgard was using a catapult, a ram, and a ballista on a tower that Albion had taken over. The tower was dumping boiling oil on the ram and shooting a ballista out into the attackers. It seemed to take forever and I died before they re-took the tower but overall it seemed pretty cool (except the towers, they look like legos).

All the new teleporting functions really help as well. You respawn in the battleground, you can teleport to your trainer, and you can teleport from the starting city to the battlegrounds.

---

Hrose's(?) suggestion of having the battlegrounds from all the servers be the same seems like a good idea as well. Only issue I can think of is naming conflicts and that should be solvable by tacking the server name on to it.

The battlegrounds are instances already so they would need to cap the max players and when it is near full add a new instance. Make which instance you're in selectable ala GW or CoH and you're good to go.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: ClydeJr on June 29, 2004, 08:54:07 AM
Anyone know where to get some decent screenshots of the different sized keeps? I saw some pictures in some video but they were small and grainy shots. I'd really love to see the difference between a level 1 keep, level 5 keep, and level 10 keep.

Maybe when i get bored of CoH, I'll reup and bring my gimpmaster and non-buffbot druid out of retirement.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on June 29, 2004, 12:30:30 PM
Well...

I have toons on Guin (50 hero, 32 ranger), Lancelot (several in Mid), and a wide assortment of others.  If you guys want to get a small group of regulars playing, I'd be happy to help.   I'd be willing to reactivate for a month to check out the new expansion on the live servers.  I just don't want to try and do it in pick-up groups again.

Keep me posted!


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: addryc on June 30, 2004, 10:28:20 AM
Well I also re-upped to daoc last week as part of NF - it gave me an excuse to catch up with old guild-mates I hadnt been able to lure away to other games with promises of 'teh shiny' (More likely I have less willpower than them!) - and so far I've been having a good time!

I'm also in Hibernia on Guinevere - I have a level 50 Warden there, as well as numerous level 21 and below toons.

The BG experience from what I have seen hasn't changed too substantially from back in the day they were introduced - obviously the exp is more - but the BGs were always the most fun part of DAoC RvR for me!  A smaller area means more flashpoints, instead of a massive frontier where you're spread all over the place.


Title: 2 weeks free for anyone who cancelled before March 31 2004!
Post by: addryc on June 30, 2004, 10:48:30 AM
As if by magic, the Herald (http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1584.shtml) posted a link to Here (http://www.comebacktocamelot.com) - looks good for those of you who are currently cancelled and want to give New Frontiers a try!


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Numtini on June 30, 2004, 11:18:28 AM
I hate Mythic. I know they're just going to do it to me again.


Title: Re: 2 weeks free for anyone who cancelled before March 31 20
Post by: Mesozoic on June 30, 2004, 12:04:54 PM
Quote from: addryc
As if by magic, the Herald (http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1584.shtml) posted a link to Here (http://www.comebacktocamelot.com) - looks good for those of you who are currently cancelled and want to give New Frontiers a try!



...thus spawning 12,000 OMG is Mystic dieing?!? posts at VN.

Of course, for the people here, 14 days is enough time to reinstall, play, quit, and download porn for 13 days straight.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Ezdaar on June 30, 2004, 12:21:18 PM
I haven't played DAOC since shortly after launch. I now find myself being dragged back to check out the new changes that look neat. Go go marketing team!


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Mesozoic on July 04, 2004, 03:57:29 AM
Mythic to Meso:

Stay Away From Camelot!

No free trial for me.  The fine print makes it clear that the trial is only for those who quit before March.  So for sticking with it longer than the rest - and paying all the way - I'd have to pay MORE money to see all the new stuff.

Nice.  I guess I'll pass.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 06, 2004, 09:55:22 AM
I tried no less than 6 fucking times to get the downloaded file to install with no luck over the weekend. I tried shutting off all AV and firewall software, I downloaded from different sites, etc. No dice. Every time I went to install, I got an I/O error somewhere between the 29% and 44% installed mark.

Anyone else have this issue? Any thoughts? I emailed support, but I am guessing they were a bit busy over the holiday weekend, so I haven't heard from them yet.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Kenrick on July 10, 2004, 06:47:55 AM
Worked fine for me.

I'm having a bit of fun in my 2-week return trial.  I only played for a month back 2 years ago when I bought it, and only got to 17 with my armsman.  I'm already up to 24 in one week and have meet some pretty cool people.  I tried the Battlegrounds thing but it's not very fun when you're in the low 20's.

Kenrick McLennan
24 Armsman - Lancelot

:) Haven't been able to write an MMOG sig in a while.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Rasix on July 10, 2004, 10:21:20 AM
Quote from: WayAbvPar
I tried no less than 6 fucking times to get the downloaded file to install with no luck over the weekend. I tried shutting off all AV and firewall software, I downloaded from different sites, etc. No dice. Every time I went to install, I got an I/O error somewhere between the 29% and 44% installed mark.

Anyone else have this issue? Any thoughts? I emailed support, but I am guessing they were a bit busy over the holiday weekend, so I haven't heard from them yet.


Heh, had similar experiences with the Dawn of War beta.  I couldn't get that damn thing to install.  I/O error every single time.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2004, 09:49:06 AM
Quote from: Kenrick
Worked fine for me.

I'm having a bit of fun in my 2-week return trial.  I only played for a month back 2 years ago when I bought it, and only got to 17 with my armsman.  I'm already up to 24 in one week and have meet some pretty cool people.  I tried the Battlegrounds thing but it's not very fun when you're in the low 20's.

Kenrick McLennan
24 Armsman - Lancelot

:) Haven't been able to write an MMOG sig in a while.

If you are not having fun in Thid, I'm going to offer you some advice.

1.  Reroll.  Armsmen SUCK.  I suggest a scout.
1a. Start carrying siege.  Expect to do this forever when you are out in RvR.
1b. If you can, respec to 24 shield, and put guard and intercept on a caster.  Stand by caster.  Hit anyone who gets too close to the caster.  On occasion, charge the healer (if you see one.)  Expect to die.  A lot.
2.  Quit.  Particularly if you insist on playing an armsman.  RvR only gets worse from here on out.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 12, 2004, 11:07:31 AM
Quote from: Rasix
Quote from: WayAbvPar
I tried no less than 6 fucking times to get the downloaded file to install with no luck over the weekend. I tried shutting off all AV and firewall software, I downloaded from different sites, etc. No dice. Every time I went to install, I got an I/O error somewhere between the 29% and 44% installed mark.

Anyone else have this issue? Any thoughts? I emailed support, but I am guessing they were a bit busy over the holiday weekend, so I haven't heard from them yet.


Heh, had similar experiences with the Dawn of War beta.  I couldn't get that damn thing to install.  I/O error every single time.


I did it from both FilePlanet and from Nvidia with similar results...hmm. Be nice if Mythic hosted the server themselves so they could help me troubleshoot (I got the standard "I cannot help thee with that" response from Mythic CS...huge surprise). I wanted to check it out, but I am not sure I can justify buying a new box to get shit installed correctly. I already wasted several hours of my life trying to get the downloaded files to install.

Oh well. Pretty sure Mythic won't miss my potential $15 a month =)


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on July 12, 2004, 11:31:41 AM
Quote from: Soulflame

If you are not having fun in Thid, I'm going to offer you some advice.

1.  Reroll.  Armsmen SUCK.  I suggest a scout.


And if DAoC had the PvE treadmill speed of SB, this wouldn't be a problem, but the fact that it takes a long time to level a character makes class nerfs all the worse. Granted, the battlegrounds are fun, but if you get to level 50 only to realize your class sucks in RvR, you sure as hell don't want to go back to the battlegrounds when you've tasted high level RvR. But take what I say about DAoC with a grain of salt. I've reached "EQ burnout" level with it so it just doesn't draw me in at all like it used to. In fact, the last time I went back to check it out, I was disgusted; however, it is a well made game with some great systems. I just can't catass there no mo'. :\


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Zephyr on July 12, 2004, 12:32:38 PM
Yeah, I am not sure what the point of Armsmen are anymore.  If you want to be a defensive tank go for Paladin, if you want to be an offensive tank roll a Merc.  With all tanks able to get determination now, there is no real point to playing an Arms, unless you like polearms.  :P


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on July 12, 2004, 12:48:22 PM
This is why I went Scout. I knew armsmen were nothing more than meatshields, so despite my predilection for gigantic 2-handed swords, kilts and plate armor, I decided to go sneaky.

I am about to hit 20, which is about the minimum level for there to be ANY activity whatsoever in the battlegrounds. The levels 1-19 battlegrounds have been ghost towns everytime I've been there.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Rasix on July 12, 2004, 08:25:42 PM
Quote from: Rasix
Quote from: WayAbvPar
I tried no less than 6 fucking times to get the downloaded file to install with no luck over the weekend. I tried shutting off all AV and firewall software, I downloaded from different sites, etc. No dice. Every time I went to install, I got an I/O error somewhere between the 29% and 44% installed mark.

Anyone else have this issue? Any thoughts? I emailed support, but I am guessing they were a bit busy over the holiday weekend, so I haven't heard from them yet.


Heh, had similar experiences with the Dawn of War beta.  I couldn't get that damn thing to install.  I/O error every single time.


Just incase anyone has problems like I did installing large files, it may be bad ram. It's not a corrupt download.

http://hcidesign.com/memtest/

That one's a windows based test that works pretty much just as well as any of the boot up ones.   Hope this helps anyone that's been dealing with similar non-intuitive bullshit.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on July 13, 2004, 11:23:50 AM
After hitting 20 last night, I tipped into Thidranki (level 20-24 Battleground) right before I was going to go to bed. Big mistake... I stayed up an hour past when I wanted to go to bed, enjoying the yummy PVP goodness. Despite my inexperience, I managed to get 5 realm points (about 1 per kill/assisted kill), including at least one kill I got entirely on my own. I'm still meat in melee, but I'm liking the sniper aspect. In addition to the RP's, I managed about half a bubble of experience just on PVP kills as well.

We won't mention how many deaths I had. :)

I think I'll keep it for a while.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on July 14, 2004, 11:42:18 AM
I made the mistake of crusing the Vault DAoC boards this morning, to see if anyone had bitched about them adding portal merchants to most all the big places in the world, but only planning on doing it for Pendragon.

Unfortunately, no one could notice that through the sheer mist of whiny spittle emanating from the mouths of incompetent, drooling crotchsniffers that post on those boards. Jesus Fucking Christ Jumped Up On A Stick, I know it's been said before, but it bears repeating. There is no larger collection of completely useless fucksticks as congregate on the Vault boards. Is it the software that compels them? The ad banners frying their tiny little minds? Are there that many people who only know how to post with their dick in the hand that's hitting the keyboards and someone else's dick in their ill-formed piehole?

FUCK, IT GETS ME STABBY.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 14, 2004, 12:13:41 PM
Any free public  board goes south in a hurry (although not quite as bad as the Vault). I tried reading the CoH official boards the other day for entertainment, and the sheer stupidity and whinging on and on nearly drove me to drink.

To steal from the famous Bash.org quote- I will be rich and famous when I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face through the Internet.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 14, 2004, 09:15:49 PM
Where you play Haemish?


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on July 15, 2004, 08:56:41 AM
I'm the Scout Maercus on Pellinor, currently ganking and getting ganked in the beautiful glade of Thidranki.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: NiX on July 15, 2004, 12:47:08 PM
I've be willing to start fresh on another server with a bunch of F13 people. I can easily /level my way back up. We could start a guild and what not. I just wish mythic would really give /level people money. 1G would make me happy. Can't take a fucking horse or get into BG's without begging. It annoys me because my main has lots of cash on him too.

But, back on topic, we starting a group?


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 15, 2004, 12:48:47 PM
You fuckers. If you start a guild, I might have to go buy the goddamned expansion and play. I have been toying with the idea anyway, but that would push me over the top.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: schild on July 15, 2004, 12:50:54 PM
No amount of moneys can get me back into that game. Unless someone has free copies and a few free months they can give me.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on July 15, 2004, 01:05:38 PM
I hate to admit this, but I've started playing again and am actually enjoying it.  Sure the game is broken in too many ways to name, but I'm having fun just screwing around.  I have characters all over the place and would happily join you guys if you decide to form a guild somewhere.  I left the first time 2 months after release due to lack of content.   I tried it again 6 months ago and left because pick-up rvr sucks.  I've gone back a third time (damn you evil Mythic) to check out NF.

If you guys start something, I recommend it be Hib or Mid.  EVERY server has more Albions than anything and it would be fun to mess up the zerg mentality.  Besides, who doesn't love being the underdog?

My 2 cents.

EDIT: spelling and punctuation still wtfpwn me


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on July 15, 2004, 01:08:43 PM
Quote from: WayAbvPar
You fuckers. If you start a guild, I might have to go buy the goddamned expansion and play. I have been toying with the idea anyway, but that would push me over the top.


For anyone interested, DAoC just released a Platinum box edition with basic, SI, ToA, and the 2 free expansions (NF and Housing) for like $30.  If you play a month, I think it's a decent deal.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Rof on July 15, 2004, 01:35:11 PM
The latest (test) patch just made it so that kills in RvR are worth gold, Mordred-style. Depending on how much they drop, that may remove one of the last barriers to leveling up via RvR: before, you'd never be able to afford equipment without doing a certain amount of PvE grinding.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Rasix on July 15, 2004, 01:50:31 PM
Thank god ESPN NFL 2K5 and Chaos League are coming out soon.  Or I might be dumb enough to try this game for a third time.  The PVE is just too painful.

Of course leveling on nothing but PVP would be pretty interesting if I think still somewhat of a pipe dream (I can't imagine low level battlegrounds being very highly populated).


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on July 15, 2004, 02:34:17 PM
Low level battlegrounds on Pellinor weren't populated at all. It wasn't until I hit 20 that I was able to get some PVP action. A bit boring, though kill tasks helped.

Shit, gold drops for PVP kills would make it the bomb. Don't ever make me have to PVE except for the occasional quest or item and I'll be happy. Right now I'm looking at having to do some leveling just to get some gold to upgrade gear.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: NiX on July 16, 2004, 12:09:08 AM
Quote from: Nebu
If you guys start something, I recommend it be Hib or Mid.  EVERY server has more Albions than anything and it would be fun to mess up the zerg mentality.  Besides, who doesn't love being the underdog?


Agreed. I play Alb/Lance and despise it. I don't know what it is about Albion but it's just filled with pricks. I've never gone a day in Alb RvR AND PvE where at least 5-10 people ream someone for their own mistake.

Also, are we going to? All my buddies left DAoC. So, I'd move to any server just so I can play with people I know.. of.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 16, 2004, 01:34:43 AM
I /leveled a sorcer on that server just to fiddle around. Got the standard equipment and went in the bg. Well, it wasn't really fun.

My char has 280 hp and an hib archer does to me from 310 to 380 dmg. I die without knowing about it. Repeatedly. No fun.

I also get graphic lags and general stutters, it's hard to forget all this when you have played in WoW for a few days, you really feel the difference.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on July 16, 2004, 08:35:58 AM
Well...

You guys pick the server and the realm and I'm there.  I am playing with a couple of friends now on mid/gawaine, but wouldn't hesitate to move for some solid rvr.  I have a 50 on Hib/guinivere and many 20-35 scattered about as well.  I think the only place I played Albion was on nimue and I ran into some idiots on day 3.

Keep me posted.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 16, 2004, 11:16:59 AM
My toons are on Merlin/Albion lol
If we want to fiddle with Haemish it's ok for me. But even if I'm a long time player I still suck..

He's on Pellinor/Albion one of the more critically underpopulated.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on July 17, 2004, 02:15:44 AM
Someone was complaing earlier that all melee players can do in siege was brace doors, damage doors, operate siege machinery, kill npc guards, guard ranged players, manage npc guards or go out to scout the area surrounding the keep. Mythic posted something on the subject yesterday...

Quote from: Mythic

It has been three and a half weeks since the launch of New Frontiers, and your feedback has really helped us make the launch smooth and the expansion a success. As with any project this enormous, we’ve been carefully observing the general ebb and flow of battle, and reading your thoughtful comments now that you’ve had a chance to fully experience much of what the expansion has to offer. One of the top requests of our community was that we provide more siege options for character classes without much range capability. We have greatly increased the emphasis on siege warfare in the new expansion, and we appreciate that many of our “tank” players want a more active role in that.

Today’s “recall” addition is the first of two steps in our plan. (By swearing fealty to the lord or captain of a besieged structure, a player can benefit by having his body recalled to that lord or captain.) The purpose of this addition is to provide our players with limited or no range capability to leave the structure and engage in combat without entirely sacrificing the support of his comrades in arms.

The next step works hand in hand with the recall feature – more postern doors. In patch notes to come in the near future, we will be adding postern (small “back”) doors to towers upgraded to level four or better. At the same time, we plan to add more postern doors to all of the keeps, and at a lower level than before. The intent is that the postern door feature be available more often, and easier to acquire.

As you can see, the two features will allow our close range combatants to seek out the enemy on the field. It will still be dangerous, and require great courage – but it will no longer require a total sacrifice.

We look forward to feedback on the features when they are both on Pendragon.


Seems basically the idea is to allow you to sally out and attempt to break siege without being trapped in unrezzable positions should you die.

Not entirely sure why additional doors are necessary mind you?


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: NiX on July 17, 2004, 04:27:49 AM
The postern doors help alleviate the problem with tanks being ganked by stealthers as they leave key doors. As it is the BG keep only has 2 doors. 1 on the CK tower and another on the CK outer walls. Not much a tank can do except jump off the tower/walls. That's just stupid as you'll just be cannon fodder due to losing 30-50% of your health.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 19, 2004, 09:44:20 AM
Had the DAOC Platinum edition box in my hands Friday night...I was THIS close to picking it up. Instead, I wandered over to the Xbox section and saw that they had a single copy of NCAA 2k5, so I picked that up instead.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Rasix on July 19, 2004, 10:03:34 AM
Quote from: WayAbvPar
Had the DAOC Platinum edition box in my hands Friday night...I was THIS close to picking it up. Instead, I wandered over to the Xbox section and saw that they had a single copy of NCAA 2k5, so I picked that up instead.


You must buy ESPN NFL 2K5 so I can crush you in online play after I demolish you in FF (I like setting myself up for an eventual let down).

In more topic related news, I downloaded the client, and after about half an hour of the always fun "Guess That Password!" I was reupped for the free 14.  Unfortuantely my SI CD has a giant fucking scratch in it and won't install.  So, I doubt I'll be playing as I'd rather play a one of the newer classes.  

It was fun talking with my friend about the game though. He still hates Mythic, thinks the balance in the game is still shot, and doesn't enjoy playing 90% of the time (hello master levels). But he's still playing.  His take on me thinking about playing again, "man, you're out. Stay that way, no reason to get sucked back into this stupid game."


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 19, 2004, 10:17:33 AM
Quote
You must buy ESPN NFL 2K5 so I can crush you in online play after I demolish you in FF (I like setting myself up for an eventual let down).


Oh I will...for $20 I can't pass it up. I will probably break down and buy Madden too, but perhaps not. Also need to dig through all the boxes in my computer room and find my router so I can get XBL set up.

I will probably try DAOC again soon too (against my better judgment). I blame everyone here who is recommending it- when I quit, I was certain that there was no way in hell I would ever go back (and this was 2 months after release when they nerfed the ever-living fuck out of group XP).


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 19, 2004, 12:11:24 PM
Right now what I HATE more in DAoC is not Mythic but the players. 95% of the gameplay in Frontier is to wait. Then port to another keep and wait. And again.

Noone seems to be willingly to do anything aside waiting. You join a group and you can be sure that half of it will be spreaded between all the zones. Noone takes the initiative and the only action is when the target is about retaking a near tower with a zerg of 200 peoples against 10 defenders.

Everyone brags tons of RPs. I can stay logged 3-4 hours and see nearly nothing because I finish only in broken groups sitting in a keep or walking with a zerg with zero aim or purpose.

Then there's the fact that after 10 minutes the client starts to lag as hell.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on July 27, 2004, 01:11:04 PM
Update: I got my first taste of RVR after they added in the coin drops on PVP kills.

At lunch time, with about 35-40 minutes of playing time in a pickup group, I managed about 1 bubble of experience, 30 or so realm points and 2 gold. I did this while actually having fun, as opposed to farming the shit out of boring mobs in Tepok's Mines for money.

I'm not sure what Hrose is running into, but I'm having a blast.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 27, 2004, 03:13:56 PM
I was commenting level 50 and above.

But I played a bit on your server and at your level without having fun.

My sorc has 280 hitpoints and gets shoot for 300-380. Dunno if it's an archer or siege but I don't even notice when I die. Too weak, dying too fast and always meeting completely umbalanced and organized groups.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: WayAbvPar on July 27, 2004, 03:16:52 PM
Maybe it was Haemish that was sniping you? That would amuse me to no end =)


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 27, 2004, 03:23:11 PM
No, we are on the same side :D


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: hkgoh on July 27, 2004, 06:12:01 PM
Since you guys seems to solo, and do not have the requisite numbers for a gank group... why not roll up a char on Modred?

My friends and I just rolled up a group there... and so far its been a blast.

Money is hard to earn, so heavily twinked alternate lower lvl chars are quite uncommon. Peeps go around in free gear / drops, quite unlike battlegrounds on RVR servers where the players there are frequently twinked and buffed to the teeth.

Theres no Portal Keeps and no safe zones to park buff bots so groups have to carry the bot if they want to use it - and the opposing group can actually target and kill the buff bot if they wants to for once.

In Modred its actually also possible to find non stealthers for 1 v 1 or 3 v 3 combat. 8 v 8 is more common as you move up, and zergs are quite infrequent and smaller sized as compared to the regular servers.

Anytime, anywhere one can find a fight. Downside of course is that anytime anywhere others can engage you too.

When Modred first launched there's quite a large number of grey gankers amongst the hardcore elite that rushed up the lvls, but as I have seen - grey ganking is now alot less common. On the flip side, attacking higher con players risky but potentially very rewarding - killing a purple caster that got too careless can give you several bubbles plus some gold at one shot.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on July 28, 2004, 05:03:44 AM
Quote from: HRose
My sorc


You seem to be playing a support caster without a group (or with a pickup group - which is basically the same as no group).

....

DAoC has always limited how classes can play effectively (solo vs grouped). You can argue this is a game weakness, but you can't really extrapolate the amount of fun playing a sorceror with fucktards for groupmates to amount of fun playing a sorceror with a proper group, or to just playing a solo class either with the zerg or on your own.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on July 28, 2004, 05:50:08 AM
Quote from: eldaec
Quote from: HRose
My sorc


You seem to be playing a support caster without a group (or with a pickup group - which is basically the same as no group).

....

DAoC has always limited how classes can play effectively (solo vs grouped). You can argue this is a game weakness, but you can't really extrapolate the amount of fun playing a sorceror with fucktards for groupmates to amount of fun playing a sorceror with a proper group, or to just playing a solo class either with the zerg or on your own.


I used to play my Sorc solo in Thidranki on Nimue and owned the living shit out of people. Pets + CC + run speed + lifetap = rawr! ;)


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Mr Samsa on July 28, 2004, 05:51:07 AM
I went back and tried the free resub.  While the chance to level via rvr was nice, I'd have to say it was of limited use to my 38 Champ.  Everytime I headed out to the bg it seemed it was always the same 15 or so people from each realm, all of whom had already been farmed to death, so they weren't worth much xp, or rp.  And many of the same class and realm imbalances were still there.  The last time I played, I got perfed by an SB with a 2h axe for half of my hp, which was capped at 1200ish.

Frankly, I've had more fun playing with a friends copy of the WoW server emulator.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on July 28, 2004, 09:43:25 AM
Hrose, I'm not sure who was hitting you at level 20 for over 300 damage, but in my time in the level 20's BG, I've made exactly 1 hit for over 300 damage with archery, one hit for around 240, and nothing else above 170-180. Granted, I'm not using fletcher made arrows, but I'm decently equipped. As for sorcerers, my wife made a /level 20 sorcerer on my brother-in-law's account last night.  We played together and she had a blast. YMMV

The biggest problem I have in RVR is the number of fucking nightshades and shadowblades who unstealth behind me like goddamn Klingon Birds of Prey and perforate/poison my ass for half my hit points before I can blink. Usually against casters I'm about 50/50, depending on if I can tag them before they can mez me, or get off enough shots to interrupt their spellcasting before they can interrupt my bowshots.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 28, 2004, 01:21:57 PM
Quote from: Mr Samsa
Everytime I headed out to the bg it seemed it was always the same 15 or so people from each realm, all of whom had already been farmed to death, so they weren't worth much xp, or rp.

Yes, this is another of the biggest problems and one that I strongly criticized when it was still in the planning stage.

I even wrote a long letter about a better design alternative. They didn't accept it.

Basically it was a new system to gain RPs. As you kill peoples you build up a bonus with a diminished return, softcapped at 2.5x. So it's a multiplier for the RPs you gain. The more RPs you gain the more the multiplier goes up. It vanishes only if you leave the PvP zone OR if 50% of your group is wiped. Obviously the more the bonus goes up the more you are worth RPs.

This system was aimed to reward the survival forcing the players to plan more their action instead of charging, dying and repeating. Without applying res sickness, maluses or timesinks.

And it rewared also the teamwork since the bonus remains alive if you are able to keep alive 51% of your group.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 28, 2004, 06:55:19 PM
Okay, look this:

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/damage.jpg)


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: NiX on July 29, 2004, 08:24:15 AM
I have no idea why you're getting hit for so much. My sorc has been 1 shotted too many times to remember but it's usually for around 200-250. Odd times you get the person with a lvl 50 who can twink their /lvl toons out the ass and you get 400 dmg hits. I love how bladeturn is utterly useless unless you're fighting someone as gimped as you. I've seen 90% of the bow classes kill me on the first shot. Meanwhile my archer was twinked out the ass (max bow skill w/ + items) and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with his crit shot.

Haemish - Keep moving. Never stop for a long enough that a stealther can come up behind you. Get Falcons Eye and Mastery of Stealth. Being able to move faster stealthed makes it harder for them to catch up when you're moving around. Always remember they can see you WAY before you can see them. I made it a habit to circl strafe randomly. Helped me offset numerous sb's and ns'. Quite a few times I got rat fang off and was able to stealth+crit. BUt, that was on a rare occasion. If they ever put me into a melee fight, I'm fucked. Utterly fucked. Though I have to say it's rewarding if I ever kill someone melee.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2004, 09:04:10 AM
I got Mastery of Stealth 1 (only level 22, RR1L3), but not Falcon's Eye. Is it really that good? Before I have to leave Thidranki, I'll be getting another skill point, which I was planning on saving to get Physical Defense 2, but if FE is decent I might get level 1 of that instead.

My two biggest problems are that I tend not to move once I've got a good target, just continually popping arrows into them, and the fact I've played a warrior class so long, I tend to try to go toe-to-toe too many times. I'm aggressive and impatient, and yet somehow still enjoy the scout class. Who knew?


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on July 29, 2004, 09:14:07 AM
Quote from: HaemishM
I got Mastery of Stealth 1 (only level 22, RR1L3), but not Falcon's Eye. Is it really that good? Before I have to leave Thidranki, I'll be getting another skill point, which I was planning on saving to get Physical Defense 2, but if FE is decent I might get level 1 of that instead.

My two biggest problems are that I tend not to move once I've got a good target, just continually popping arrows into them, and the fact I've played a warrior class so long, I tend to try to go toe-to-toe too many times. I'm aggressive and impatient, and yet somehow still enjoy the scout class. Who knew?


At higher levels, assassins will get you every single time and there are tons of them in RvR. Learn to strike (and kill) and move. An advantageous spot only lasts a short while until the other players figure out where you are.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Nebu on July 29, 2004, 09:31:16 AM
Quote from: Soukyan
At higher levels, assassins will get you every single time and there are tons of them in RvR. Learn to strike (and kill) and move. An advantageous spot only lasts a short while until the other players figure out where you are.


Great point... one other thing you should consider: About 20-30% of people that frequent RvR cheat.  There is a radar app that shows where stealthers (and enemy players) are on screen.  Granted, Mythic claims that they are making an effort to ban people for this, but some alliances encourage it.  One friend of mine said that they saw someone IN GAME tell another player how to get and use this app.  

So, keep moving and pick your targets wisely.  

Another fun tip: If your realm holds DF (darkness falls) it can be fun to camp in there before you log.  When you log in, it is often held by an opposing realm and you can plunk people a while until they catch you.  When I played my Hib archer I found this to be amusing.  If you catch higher level casters sitting down to heal you can often 1-shot them.  Nice RP's when you can find them.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 29, 2004, 06:42:39 PM
Where damn I can get equipment?

I searched the market for a cloak from level 20 to 30
result
zero

Searched other parts with still zero result.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on July 29, 2004, 08:27:37 PM
Quote from: HRose
Where damn I can get equipment?

I searched the market for a cloak from level 20 to 30
result
zero

Searched other parts with still zero result.


That's another downfall. You'll only find level 50+ equipment for sale because it's not profitable to sell lower level wares. At least I never found anyone who really bothered with them. Find yourself a crafter and have them make the stuff for you though. On larger servers you can still find a fair amount of crafters. On smaller ones, like Palomides, most Legendary GM crafters are just guild bots, so you may need to talk to some of the guilds and see what you can find.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: HRose on July 29, 2004, 08:53:21 PM
Quote from: Soukyan
That's another downfall. You'll only find level 50+ equipment for sale because it's not profitable to sell lower level wares. At least I never found anyone who really bothered with them. Find yourself a crafter and have them make the stuff for you though. On larger servers you can still find a fair amount of crafters. On smaller ones, like Palomides, most Legendary GM crafters are just guild bots, so you may need to talk to some of the guilds and see what you can find.


I'm really trying hard to play the game. I cannot hang around for a few hours to wait a tailor to do my armor and then spellcraft everything with 5 gold I gained in the PvP.

So I logged on my 50 toon on Merlin and tried every way possible to RvR. Nothing. Cannot find a group. If I do I finish with four peoples, each playing in a different zone.

I passed two years in this game and now I cannot play anymore. No matter how hard I try.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: hkgoh on July 30, 2004, 01:44:02 AM
Quote from: Nebu


Great point... one other thing you should consider: About 20-30% of people that frequent RvR cheat.  There is a radar app that shows where stealthers (and enemy players) are on screen.  Granted, Mythic claims that they are making an effort to ban people for this, but some alliances encourage it.  One friend of mine said that they saw someone IN GAME tell another player how to get and use this app.  


Actually I believe it's the opposite. Radar can show all players - even their lvl and class.... all except the stealthers. The only time radar can detect a stealther is when they are unstealthed.

Have been well documented before on other forums, and have even spoke with a couple of radar users which I know.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: hkgoh on July 30, 2004, 01:50:03 AM
Quote from: HRose
Okay, look this:

(http://www.cesspit.net/misc/damage.jpg)


Are you wearing yellow con armor? Is your self AF buff on, and that you are using the highest AF buff available to you? If the AF buff is off, it will instantly reduce your AF greatly- and increase the amount of physical damage you will receive.

Are you seated when you are being hit? Seated = zero AF. Thats how  archers / assasins can one shot casters thats higher lvl than them.

Commonly its one of the above that allows an archer or assasin to hit for very large numbers against a cloth caster.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: hkgoh on July 30, 2004, 01:56:28 AM
Actually daoc warcry offers a very good list of quests that one can complete within one's realm for equipment. Simply doing a few SI quests can reward a player with pretty good gear.

Alternatively as one approach 30, one can farm or puchase emerald seals for buying DF equipment - which although is inferior to SCed eq, is still pretty good stuff.

Tailoring is the craft which requires the lowest cost to push up. And by pushing metal working one can soon be able to salvage gear for tinkering into hinges - which can be resold at high value.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on July 30, 2004, 02:55:39 AM
20-30% using radar/other hacks is a massive overestimate.

It's the sort of wailing and gnashing of teeth that keeps Mythic comfortable ignoring the real problems.

By which I mean buffbots, the fact that 1-50 isn't fun, and the fact that even with the recently promised changes, starting the game from scratch without a guild has enormous barriers to entry.


Title: State of the Game
Post by: Kenrick on July 30, 2004, 06:28:26 AM
This message was at the patch/login screen when I signed on last night:

Quote
Folks,

It’s the summertime, and contrary to the lyrics from the old ballad, the living is anything but easy here around Mythic Land. It’s been a busy year for everyone here and the summer has not been the time for us to kick back and enjoy our success. Rather, it is a time of hard work, effort and change for both DAoC and our company. This letter will detail, from my perspective, many of the things that are going on at Mythic and with DAoC. It will be followed by a letter from Matt Firor, who will go into great detail about some of the changes that I talk about in this letter. So, let’s start today’s letter off with some facts.

Our paid monthly subscriber base (as readers of my statements here and elsewhere know, we do not hide our subscriber count nor do we use “marketing-speak” to make things look better than they are in reality) in the US is, as of today, 5% higher than it was last year at this same time and Europe the growth is even higher. Not bad at all for a three-year old game that nobody thought would succeed eh?

During the last year Mythic delivered more content to its subscribers, at no additional charge, than any other MMORPG company that we are aware of in the world. With the release of Foundations and more recently, New Frontiers, Mythic has shown that it is committed to improving DAoC for as long as our players want us to do so. Additionally, New Frontiers represented a level of cooperation, communication and testing by and with an existing game’s fanbase than has ever been attempted in this industry to date. We are proud of the effort and we thank you, as always, for your support.

Mythic remains committed to doing what we believe is necessary to protect the company and the game against those who would harm it. As we closed a chapter with our lawsuit against Microsoft, we opened a new chapter with an aggressive campaign against those who cheat in our game.

Change is necessary; evolution is inevitable in life as in the gaming world.

So, what do these facts have to do with this letter? Plenty! First, let’s start with the bad news. No design and testing process for a game system as complicated as New Frontiers, let alone DAoC, can be completed without errors. After all, even with the heaviest and most exhaustive testing on Pendragon to date, there is nothing like a quarter of a million subscribers actually playing the game LIVE worldwide to find its flaws. Since the launch of NF, we have identified and fixed many of the problems that were discovered after the expansion’s release. We know that there are realm population issues plaguing some servers and the less-than-satisfying in-game experience for those people participating in RvR on those imbalanced servers. That’s the bad news.

Now, time for the good news! We have made some changes to the RvR systems to help balance things out and we will continue to make more over the next few weeks. However, we must tread cautiously for the last thing we want to do is make it impossible for those people who are playing in an over-populated realm to enjoy playing in NF. So, in order to improve the experience for those who are at a numerical disadvantage as well as avoiding hurting the experience for those whose realms are in-balance, here’s is what we are going to do. First, we will continue to make small changes to the game systems to make it easier for those people who are both playing in an under-populated realm as well as that find themselves heavily outnumbered and besieged, to hold back their attackers. However, we also will reward those brave defenders by giving them new bonuses for experience and gold gained, in addition to the realm point bonuses that they already get, for fighting under those conditions. The end result is that even if you are outgunned, outnumbered and out-of-luck, you will be rewarded by your Realm for defending it against its enemies. The end result will be that you will level faster, be able to buy stuff more quickly and enjoy the benefits that being the underdog will bring to you. We hope that this will make the experience of NF even more enjoyable and also help encourage more people to move to that realm and server.

Now, time for even better news! During the last year, Mythic has made DAoC an easier game to play than ever before. We have introduced a more group-friendly system and made it easier than ever before for new players as well as casual gamers to play and succeed in DAoC. However, we want to go even farther than that and we will do so over the next few weeks. As part of this we will introduce a number of initiatives, the biggest of which is the “Gift of the Realm” system. How this system works is quite simple. At certain time intervals (more on this later), players will be able to go to their trainer and receive special rewards for their character. These rewards will include a new experience level as well as gold on a weekly basis. These changes are designed to help the casual as well as the new player succeed more quickly in DAoC. Thus, players will be able to level their characters more quickly than ever before and in a way that rewards people of all play-styles (casual, hard-core) equally. When we first launched DAoC, we wanted it to be accessible to all kinds of play-styles and we will continue and expand in this tradition. We are also planning to add in-game maps (for non RvR areas) as well as new systems to make grouping even easier than before. We will also be adding things like in-game keyboard configuration as well as other things as part of this initiative, with lots more to come over the next six months.

However, the news gets even better here. In order to help encourage even more people to move to the under-populated servers and realms, the Gift of the Realm program will also be sped up on those Realms we determine to be under-populated. The intervals at which the gift is received will be shortened on those servers where the population and the realm are out-of-balance. Once again, this is a time-based award not one based on the number of things you kill, quests you solve, etc. but rather a bonus given to everyone with a realm/server combination that needs a bit of a boost. Also, this is a true bonus and the leveling time/cost/etc. for peoples’ characters, realms, servers, etc. are not being added to prior to this change or after this change (a favorite retail scam, first markup the prices then announce a BIG SALE!!!).

But wait, there’s more! Over the last few weeks we announced and followed through with a very active campaign against those who use hacking and cheating tools in DAoC. Not only has this campaign been successful to date, but we are stepping it up again. Mythic will do what is necessary to protect the long-term health of the game even if it costs us some subscribers and revenue in the short-term. We have seen a significant loss of subscribers due to the bannings and cancellations by people after they have been suspended for cheating. We expect to lose up to a couple of thousand people if we continue to follow through on this policy. And follow up on this we will do, no matter the cost. I have said before that Mythic is willing to sacrifice subscriber revenue in order to have a better game for the vast majority of players (percentage of cheaters among DAoC’s subscribers is very, very low) who don’t need nor want to cheat in order to succeed in DAoC and we have backed that up with our actions in the recent past and will continue to do so in the future.

As required by lawyers everywhere, the usual disclaimer that this letter is a guide as to what we hope to do during this period and not as a guarantee of any kind. I always hate saying this but that’s what lawyers are for, to make us say things that we hate.

As always we thank the community for its continued support and patronage of DAoC and I hope that you’ve had and continue to have a great summer!

Mark


Now basically we're not really going to know exactly what he's talking about until it's all actually implemented into the game.

I've only been playing for a month since coming back, but I've already come to the conclusion that my class (Alb Arsman) is almost completely worthless in RvR.  I can't get anywhere near close enough to any Hibs or Mids to even swing, much less hit, without getting mezzed for upwards of 10-15 seconds.  Oh wait, I don't even have the chance to be mezzed for that long because I'll be dead in under 5 seconds from all the 500 hit arrows and spells.

I was gonna go into all the changes I'd love to see and why, but I decided just to leave it at this:

Armsmen need love.
Mezzers and archers are way overpowered.

Fix this please then give me a stinkin state of the game.  kthx


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Soukyan on July 30, 2004, 07:04:00 AM
Quote from: HRose
Quote from: Soukyan
That's another downfall. You'll only find level 50+ equipment for sale because it's not profitable to sell lower level wares. At least I never found anyone who really bothered with them. Find yourself a crafter and have them make the stuff for you though. On larger servers you can still find a fair amount of crafters. On smaller ones, like Palomides, most Legendary GM crafters are just guild bots, so you may need to talk to some of the guilds and see what you can find.


I'm really trying hard to play the game. I cannot hang around for a few hours to wait a tailor to do my armor and then spellcraft everything with 5 gold I gained in the PvP.

So I logged on my 50 toon on Merlin and tried every way possible to RvR. Nothing. Cannot find a group. If I do I finish with four peoples, each playing in a different zone.

I passed two years in this game and now I cannot play anymore. No matter how hard I try.


There can be a lot of guild-centric activity these days in DAoC. I have seen that at times it is very difficult to find groups and even groups that could use your class will often pass you by because they are "guild only". But it's not like that on every server and every realm.

Buffbots are still a big issue because it contributes to the increasingly "single player" mentality for PvE and sometimes even RvR.

Radar does not see stealthers unless they are unstealthed. It will show all non-stealth players and mobs along with levels, race and class. It is color-coded by realm to allow for quick enemy identification and works on approximately a 6000 unit radius (which is the entire dynamic loading bubble) from the user.

There is also a speed-hack for DAoC, but I don't believe that it is widespread. It does work and it allows for some ridiculous speeds with very little warping. This is because the server has to account for the fact that any player could move between the default run speed and the highest run buff at any given time (if grouped with a bard or whatever) and so the calculations are done between that range and acceptable. It does not check for a run speed buff in effect on the character. So, you might think that it isn't a huge deal, because most RvR groups have some run speed on anyhow, but the thing is... the speed hack doesn't drop when you enter combat. Being able to cruise around at speed 6 even if hit, is one hell of an advantage. Also, it can be used to speed up movement when stealthed. But again, you will probably encounter very little of that.

It's a shame that this kind of stuff exists for a damn game, but alas, that's what happens when you have a game with a scoreboard and people want to be number one at all costs. I'm not saying all the top people are cheaters either. Cheaters are the minority.

It's too bad you're having such a hard time of it, HRose. If it's any help, I found in my two years playing DAoC that I would run into hot and cold streaks when it came to RvR. Take a few days off and try it again and you may find it to be better.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Anonymous on July 30, 2004, 08:51:13 AM
The grouping problem is universal, across all servers and realms, near as I can tell.

Go out into RvR.  Join the main BG.

Type /bg status
Type /bg groups

It's a fair bet that 50% of the BG is running around solo.  There will probably be several "groups" comprised of 2-3 people.  No one will group, even if the BG leader tells people to form up groups.  I've watched a cleric beg for a group for half an hour before logging in disgust.  I've asked groups that obviously were not full, that were obviously in need of speed, if they wanted a theurgist.  The answer is generally, "No."  So I typically autofollow them anyway, just to see where they are running off to.  Most of the time, it's a swift death at the hands of a well built gank group.

As for the free levels, this will do nothing for population balance.  I'll see if I can explain.

Moving to a new server does not mean simply leveling to 50.  If anything, 50 is just the start of the grind to get to a point where you can be competitive in RvR.  You need a good group to run with.  This group needs to be very well formulated, particularly if you are playing in Albion.  You need artifacts.  You need Master Levels.  You need to spec out a template for resists, stats, ToA bonuses, etc.  Realm Rank 5 is pretty much a pre-req, most good groups would prefer you were RR8 though.  None of this is achieved in a vaccuum.

Getting the artifacts alone is enough to make me want to cancel.  Here's how a typical artifact raid works.

First, there's two types of raids.  Lotto, and claimed.  Lotto means people /rand on the artifacts at the end, claimed means people have stated if a certain artifact is gotten, they get it.  Many raids are a combination of the two.  As a side note, be very cautious of raids where pretty much everything is claimed.  It's probably a "raid" assembled to get a bunch of friends some artifacts.  You are best off going on raids you run yourself, or are run by your guild.

So, you assemble the raid.  Some encounters can be soloed, others require EQ plane raid sized groups.  Inevitably, people show up late.  Link Deaths are frequent.  One or more people get lost on the way there, and everyone needs to move back to get them.

Then there's the encounter itself.  The encounters are on respawn timers (of course.)  These vary from half an hour to days.  Generally, the artifact will always drop, although this isn't always the case.  So, the odds are the encounter for the artifact is not even up, or was scooped while you were waiting for the eighteenth person to get back from being LD.

It seems my particular realm has jettisoned "need before greed" when it comes to artifacts, and who can blame them.  Artifacts sell for plat, some up to seven plat or more.  Generally, pretty much the entire force rolls on an artifact, whether they need it or not, as they can sell it for mad cash later.  Or even give it to an alt.  Good luck rolling!

So, say you've managed to get an artifact.  Now, you have to find three specific scrolls.  They are rare drops, that only are dropped by specific mobs.  Many scrolls are dropped by blues and yellows, some are dropped by mobs that can only be killed with a well oiled PvE group.  It can take, on average, a lot of kills to obtain the third scroll (I've seen the number 140 tossed around for at least one scroll), the first two are generally a bit easier.

Ok, you've gotten the three scrolls.  Now combine the scrolls, and take the artifact and resulting book to the correct NPC.  Finished, right?

You wish.  Now, you have to level the artifact.  This ranges from spending 10 hours grimly pulling the same mob over and over again, to needing to build a well built PvE group multiple times in order to get into areas that are pretty much death traps.  Hope you've got friends!

Keep in mind that you still need to run Master Levels (probably 72+ hours of playtime to get done.)  You'll also need to finish that suit template, which will require a bit of time pouring over items, artifacts, quest drops, and what can be spell crafted, in order to build the "perfect" suit.  Spell crafting the suit will cost upwards of three plat.  Obtaining just one ring can cost three plat.  This is a hideously expensive process, as you can well imagine.

Moving to a new server will only help the new server if you can bring a good sized guild that can complete all of the above.  Individuals moving to a new server will accomplish nothing.  You won't be followed as a leader.  You won't get into the "good" groups.  You'll be lucky to group at all.

This latest effort to balance the server populations is going to fail just as badly as /level 30.

The only fix I can possibly imagine is an offer to move entire guilds to a new server, where they will get all their MLs, a free level 50, whatever tradeskills they need, pick of their artifacts, etc, so on and so forth.  Nothing else will compell people to move to a new server, certainly not the prospect of abandoning characters they've accumulated 100+ days of /play time on, just so they can do that all over again.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: Kenrick on July 30, 2004, 08:59:02 AM
They just posted another big "future updates" article on the herald.  Here's one humorous snippet:
Quote

- We are implementing a system where all characters will now be granted a free level every seven days, assuming the character has attained a level by standard methods in that time. In other words, if you play regularly and attain at least one level in a seven day period, you'll be given a free one, as well as some coin. This means that even a very casual player can gain levels fast enough to get to the mid and high levels quickly.


Title: DAoC rvr patch/expansion going live
Post by: eldaec on August 03, 2004, 07:37:55 AM
Quote
It's a fair bet that 50% of the BG is running around solo. There will probably be several "groups" comprised of 2-3 people. No one will group, even if the BG leader tells people to form up groups. I've watched a cleric beg for a group for half an hour before logging in disgust. I've asked groups that obviously were not full, that were obviously in need of speed, if they wanted a theurgist. The answer is generally, "No." So I typically autofollow them anyway, just to see where they are running off to. Most of the time, it's a swift death at the hands of a well built gank group.


You 100% need a decent guild to rvr, unless you are a stealther solo class (with buffbot), or just want to mooch about in keep defences.

It's fair to criticise the game for that design decision, but fact is the game is completely different with a proper guild group. I don't mean a ML10 artifact laden min maxed gank group. I just mean 8 lvl 50 people who respect each other and where some effort has been made to include speed, heals, and cc.

Quote
As for the free levels, this will do nothing for population balance. I'll see if I can explain.


I agree, espeicially with this...

Quote
The only fix I can possibly imagine is an offer to move entire guilds to a new server,


Spawn a one way portal in high population realms leading to low population servers for the same realm.

Have them up for a month at a time.

Walking in runs a character move.

Ideally you need to move guilds, and this method would allow for that by keeping the portal open for a predictable length of time.

But failing that, allowing one way moves of complete characters is feasible. Becuase a lvl 50 with a few realm levels, master levels, and artifacts, will generally be able to find a new guild on the new server.

Of course, this plan would also lead to thousands of CS tickets refering to how 'little brothers' had triggered a server move (much in the way so many little brothers keep using up respecs or giving away loot).