f13.net

What is it? It is not the original EQ1. It is EQ1 as it exists today without expantions. Love it, hate it. I know I'm not alone when I say a lot of my MMORPG knowledge came from this game. The pre kunark community was so tight. Will it be again?

I would run through it with some buddies if I had the time.

I'd rather play fake UO.  Playing EQ does not stand up well to the nostalgia.

I'd rather play Final Fantasy Adventure.

On the Gameboy. The original one.

(http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Final_Fantasy_Adventure_GBC_ScreenShot2.jpg)

I'd give myself about 20-30 minutes tops. Then I would suddenly get cold sweats, nausea and, in general, a similar reaction that a tee totaler alcoholic must feel when someone puts a drink in front of him. It seems like a great idea for a split second, and then you remember all the horror it brought upon your world :P

this car?  I drove it into the ground, then sold it to some kid.  And swore I'd never drive one again.  Now?  I'm putting a guild together to get an other.  And we'll own the road...

More blueberry muffins, better analogies.  Sorry.  Still waking.

My nostalgia craving is sated by listening to the EQ midi's and reminiscing about being lost in GF. My experience greatly differs from my memories, but isn't that true about everything?

Everyone's favorite MMO is always the first MMO they ever played.

I keep telling my wife it's the same thing about women, but that only gets me slapped and a trip to the doghouse.

Fixed that for you!   :-)

Exception to the rule here. Heck, on this site, I bet there more than a few exceptions. Probably a reasonable generalisation, however.

ROWR!  :hello_kitty:

I will play, probably enjoy myself to the point of engaging in catassery for a month or so, and then quit once I have to raid or shit gets too crowded.  I will then scrub myself clean with a brillo pad and deny that these events ever occurred.

I've been collecting old tube socks and empty gatorade bottles for just such an occasion.

Returning to EQ would be like having sex with my grandmother. My moldy, dead grandmother.

Somethings just shouldn't be contemplated.

(http://www.chickenorfish.com/jokes/CatAss-cof.jpg)

(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1ZstHgMEweE4YM:http://fonceur.tripod.com/UI/SpellBook.jpg)

Stare at that for 50 out of every 60 mins to relive the early EQ experience.  No, I'm not kidding.

Not to encourage nor discourage for that matter. No one has stared at a spellbook to med for a long while. Unless there trying to figure out what those things do. Again its not the original EQ1. Its EQ1 as it exists today without expantions. The expantions will get opened buy actions of the server population.

That help?

The expansions will be opened how by the actions of the server population?

(I like this idea in theory, never played EQ other than a 4 hour trial, and have no plans to again, but inquiring minds and all that).

There not telling, but smart money is on vox and naggy to be at least part of what is needed to unlock kunark. One Dev as said his opinion the server will be caught up to production in a year. Its in closed beta now so I'll guess there getting a feel for it all.

Maybe they are going to have to win the zones back from the Withered Aegis.

My first MMO was FFXI.

No, it's most definitely not my favorite.

Sure, there's a bit of nostalgia I carry around for the world of Vana'diel.

But WoW showed me a better way. I'll never look back.

The killing of "key" mobs is the current rumor. (Verified? I dunno)  Each EQ expansion had one mob that could be considered "The Boss" of that expansion.  Kill it, open up the next expansion.  

i.e.

Kill Nagafein & Vox to open up Kunark
Kill Trakanon to open-up Velious
Wake The Sleeper to open up Luclin
etc.


The 'fun' part would be watching all the current 'hardc0re' players bitch about how hard the encounters are.  There's a LOT of mudflation that they've experienced over the years and I don't know that anyone who actually had to kill Nagafein with a Short Sword of Ykesha would be interested in doing it again.

The question that interests me would be: Do they have to open Kunark etc. to raise the level cap?  Killing Vox at 50 was a challenge.  At level 55, not so much. 

Vox and Naggy were also buffed after Kunark. I assume the Kunark dragons were buffed after Luclin. I assume the buffed versions are the ones that people will encounter.

They were?  I remember them putting a level cap on who was allowed to kill Vox/Naggy, but I don't remember them being more difficult. Then again, I quit shortly after Velious released.

Maybe that is all I am thinking of.

(http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/pics/Fippy_Darkpaw.JPG)

Please come back.

Fippy misses you.

Ruin his lands again...for the first time.


BAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRK!

Finding one of Fippy's relatives on a quest in EQ2 made me laugh.  I missed Fippy and all of his pixelated goodness.

God I hated that little fucker. I was so happy the first time I killed him.

Yup. Levels (and abilities) will be capped by expansion so no 60 until Kunark, no AAs until Luclin, etc.

I predict massive server population for about a fortnight, a stable (but much lower) population until Luclin is unlocked and then a rapid decline.
(Because Luclin was the beginning of the end, natch).

Edit: SOE is going to launch with two servers (http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/news_article.vm?id=50168), and merge them if/when needed.

What if your first MMO (technically speaking, that is) was The Realm?

I have to say I much prefer DAoC to EQ, but I did miss all the fluff EQ had compared to DAoC (e.g. levitation, drinking, row boats, etc).

Well, my first MMO after MUDs was technically The Realm.  I even beta tested it.  It was NOT my favourite MMO.  I checked and they have a 7 day free trial.  You can sub to it for a whole freeken year for $70.  Here's a screenie to entice you:

(http://hem.passagen.se/ulkis/onlineworlds/therealm.jpg)

http://www.realmserver.com/

You beta tested it too?! OMG WE MIGHT HAVE MET. LOL, INTERNET.

Yep, I beta tested it from day one, before there were even monsters.  Just a bunch of weird people wandering around.  .  It was good fun!  Geez, you must have been a wee sprog back then!

I was never a wee sprog. I burst from my mother's head fully grown and covered in armor.

You wish your birth could be that awesome.

I don't need to wish anything. That's just how it happened.

It's your choice if you want to believe it not.

My armor is on display at the smithsonian now next to the gun Hemingway used to kill himself.

Okay... someone's been hitting the gin.

There are pictures!

(http://www.vetitice.demon.co.uk/photos/baby/jan-may2005/Spanish%20Armour%20(Feb%202005)%203.JPG)

You mean you used to have sex with your moldy, dead grandmother?

Your mother's head seems to have recovered quite well. It's nice that you're looking concerned about the remaining damage to her left ear.

Mmmh, I could be wrong here, but if I remember correctly Fippy IS in EQ2. He is the Splitpaw Arena's Host. He's got a booming voice too. Definitely one of the greatest NPC in EQ2.

(I'll investigate and take screenshots later today)

Anarchy Online. Anarchy "oops, you have to reinstall your entire operating system" Online.

Exception #2 here.

--GF

Nah, she never did put out.

Does a cadaver have veto power?

My first was NWN (AOL days), but my favorite was Ultima Online.  Followed by Asherons Call.

Perhaps the only lesson from EQ WOW did not learn:

You can't expect to have a great player community without mechannics that permit griefing.

/train.

Goos are camped.

There is slightly more info on this in the June Newsletter. (http://newsletters.station.sony.com/newsletter.vm?lang=en&purpose=longnews&topic=eq_por&date=061606&skin=1#0)  I could almost play this.

It's now in 'open beta' (for EQ subscribers only, I assume) until the servers go live.

Nagafen and Vox will most likely open up the Plane of Fear, Cazic Thule's death will probably open Hate, and Innoruuk's death might trigger Sky.  At least, if they're sticking to linear progression in the order things were originally released.  However, if they make it necessary to kill the Eye of Veeshan at the top of the Plane of Sky before accessing Kunark, it will be a VERY long time before anyone succeeds, and when they do, it will be through massive mega-zerg mode.  And you forgot Veeshan's Peak in Kunark - Velious will probably be opened by the defeat of Phara Dar.  Opening Luclin may be related to any one of a number of things.  Waking the Sleeper is actually pretty easy.  Defeating Vulak`Aerr is harder.  Defeating the Avatar of War is hardest (it was only done on one server pre-Luclin, and I'm pretty sure a year or so passed between Velious and Luclin release).

I'll be checking this out, but I don't expect to have enough time to really play here.  I only got into playing a Bard in the late Luclin Age though, so I look forward to experiencing the life of a Bard of the First Age.

Anyone know if they're also rolling back the toon changes? Like pre-Kunark bard speeds, etc?

Imagine having to progress through the Luclin raids again. Temple of Ssra? UGH.

How about old EQ with new EQ2 pixelated goodness? Gotta keep the midi's retro though, those still bring nostalgic tears to my eyes. Major rotation time on the iPod.

It was previously mentioned (previously in this thread, I think) that no, classes won't play like they did at release.  It'll be current-classes with oldworld equipment/ zones.  So no UberNecroDeathGOD, gimpy rangers or super-speed bards.

Rangers aren't gimpy anymore? How so?

I dunno, they may be again.  I just remember them not being so bad when I quit for good 3 years ago.  (Though the perception was still around.  Much like the whole "only farmers and lamers play hunters" thing in WoW.. groupthink hates non-cloth ranged classes)  They were able to take a few hits as a light tank, and even did decent ranged and melee damage.  However, I recall a large part of that was AA tweaks.

Yes, that was what I remembered too -- the AA tweaks were nice, but you needed to suffer through how many levels gimped to get there? 50? 60? Too masochistic for me. My ranger died a reluctant death around level 24ish I think.

I hear most of the more recent EQ raid targets are instanced and well-designed.  Too bad you have to grind to 70 and a trillion AA on a regular server or grind through the cockblock-ridden shitfest of original-PoP uninstanced raids on progression to actually get to them.

If they instanced or psuedo-instanced (whit character flags or whatever) the raid content in the old game, I might play for a long while.  There is a load of content there.  But no way in hell am I going to stand around in line waiting for my turn at it in 9 after the guild of unemployed shut-ins, the guild of europeans, the guild of high school kids, the guild of college students, and the guild of early-EST workers have finished farming it.  At least I get to cockblock the "west coasters with real jobs" guild!

The server won't last that long.

As to rangers, Kunark is what really killed the ranger as a tank. Mob DPS was too high, although a well-equipped ranger could tank even cons fine with a slower. I was always a ranger in EQ1. The first 40 level were the best 40 levels for that class.

The server is called The Combine right?  I thought that was a joke, then I read a bit more and I think it's real.  How ironic.  I'll skip this one. 

You know, the Combine Empire, from Norrath lore? I can see the irony tho if you're one of those poor gits like me who got Smithing up to 200 before stacking.

There are two.  The Combine and The Sleeper so jokes all around.

Vex

Unfortunately, in a disgusting bit of irony, the Combine was also the name of one of the biggest collection of cockmongers on the planet at release, the Combine guild on the Karana server. Said guild also broke up when it was discovered that the leader was ebaying the guild's loot back before Kunark.

That the same Combine that Deyth wrangles?

I don't know why anyone would want to play such an old game with such shitty graphics and boring advancement.  Now if you'll pardon me, I'm going to go log into UO, as soon as I check on how the freesharders are doing with their days and days of macroing.
 :rimshot:

Yep.

Got my newbie mage to level 6 between 3:30a and 11. So far just soloing. Damn it all, EQ is still fun at least in the lower levels and when there's at least 70-90 folks all in the same area. It's fun for me just watching everyone run around madly trying to level. YMMV. What really made me chortle though was checking out Blackburrow for the first time on this server. Bodies. Every. Where. I think most people have forgotten what it's like to be this low and with no twinkage.:D

I will admit I almost quit in disgust about 3 seconds from spawning the first time. The mix of class and deity plopped me somewhere in the Qeynos Catacombs. I had just enough time to say 'Catabombs? Why am I here?". Then 'Uh oh, skeleton after that guy that ran by me'. Then 'Uh oh, skelie saw me'. Then 'Loading. Please Wait...'. I probably blew about 45 minutes trying find my way back to the initial guildmaster (unsuccessful) and finally said fuck it and re-rolled for the upstairs mage position.

A guildie posted the following about his first night on The Sleeper server:


I cannot deny that I was filled with nostalgia.

I reactivated my account for the Discord server a year or two ago. It was really cool.

I would not reactivate for this, however :o

No PvP on these old-school servers right?

It was a lot of fun last night. Just some random thoughts as much has been obsevered allready. I do not remember rubber banding in EQ1. I rubber-ed banded last night like no other game, worse than shadowbane. Greater faydark was totally camped as in every bloody square inch of greater feydark was camped. Yes, compaired to EQ2 or WOW the character poly counts are low. But you know what? There isn't anything wrong with the game play. It's still a fun game. I know to some extent its like playing country music backwards ( You get your wife back, you get your truck back, your dog comes back) but for the moment its entertaining and thats enough for me.

Fuck that noise.

Blackburrow was near to crashing on Combine. I think I was the straw that broke the camel's back. I died and when I came back in to retrieve my stuff, the frame rate had dropped to about 1 FPS. So the group packed up for the Karanas. Good fun there. Died out in NK and had to run all the way from Qeynos. You take for granted just how forgiving newer games are.

Agree with all of the above on this page of the thread - I've been having good fun on The Combine server. EQ has no qualms about making a player character REALLY WEAK compared with the environment, so you have the sense of achievement from overcoming that challenge and being above the lowest common denominator.

Funny thing - I zoned into Highpass Hold to get the level 7 enchanter pet spell, and the way was being cleared by a Fires of Heaven group, the highest level people on the server :)

The progression servers are FoH's wet dream. Careful where you step. Mind the spooge.

What is frightening is that even though I stopped playing EQ1 in 2001, I still know both upper and lower Guk like my own home. Hell, I bet I could still pull Kedge Keep with all its fucked up z-axis nightmares or get through the Cazic maze without a map. The game is THAT ingrained in my long-term memory. 

You're not the only one. I just ran through City of Mist with my eyes closed. God how I used to dread that place and yet want to be there for that damned poker I needed to loot for my epics.

I only made it to level 29 or so, but I have the escape route from the Sarnak Fortress in LOIO to the zone line embedded in my DNA. Never did make it to the really fun train places like Guk or Unrest, although I did lead a giant train of orcs to the Kelethin lift as a n00b. My roommate was playing in the other room and says to this day it was the most impressive train he has ever seen. I wish I had a screenshot of it.

Of course, I died at the feet of the useless guards, but them's the breaks when you are a n00b.

I'm on the Sleeper server and having an okay time of it though they should really up the spawn rate.  My account has a month trial on it for some reason so I'll play until that wears out at least.

What I don't get is all the people turning in the books to the PoD and going red.  Doesn't this make them pretty useless?

I have the most obvious question: Has anyone died playing yet? 

I wish I was joking.

Yes, completly.  So either these are people just fooling around on the server to check it out, or newer players who had the EQ tutorial to help them through their noobdom and don't understand the soul-crushing experience that the "oldschool" EQ was.  I don't think the tutorial ever explained the POD to anyone, much less gave them the book.  They probably think it's some kind of newbie quest, like the trainer note.


I bet I could run around Kelthin and through Befallen and Mistmoore without even thinking about it.  Damn that's scary, but I almost want to reinstall and lvel a druid for a bit.

Wait, no, that was just the tumor.

Not that I know of, but does it count that I die a little inside watching all the WoW catasses that think their shit is half as hard as this was?

There is a surprisingly high noob factor and I think some are people whose first MMOG was WoW, trying to find out what shaped their ex-EQ peers. WoW has a very pro-PvP population, so they probably go red because they think it's like playing battlegrounds. I was asked whether there was any way to speed up mana/health regeneration by eating/drinking. I explained that it was done with buffs that didn't exist at low levels and EQ regen was slow by design. If I was a WoW person, I would abandon my EQ experiment at that point and go back to WoW, but he was fine with it.

There's also a lot of people faking oldschool cred in public chat: they were there in the old days playing a Beastlord (not introduced until Luclin) or remember when their enchanter got Breeze (not introduced until Kunark or Velious, can't remember which).

I think a lot of them are guilded Prophets of Sullon Zek so that would explain it.  I might be mistaken but I think if you go red you really can't even group within anyone who's not or you are unable to heal them, something to that effect.  It's been a while. 

IF you're red you can't be healed, buffed or otherwise affected by the non-flagged people, to prevent invulnerable healers.   This means that those guys are hosed if they're serious about anything.  The 'usual' guild drama WILL sunder them and there's no recovering and joining a new guild if you're flagged.

Anyone remember the UO - PKs telling everyone that nobody in EQ would turn their PK switch off?

I was a radical carebear and thought maybe as much as 50% would go non-PK

Most disappointing thing I've seen - apparently boats have not worked in EQ for several years, and everyone just accepts it as the way things are. Supposedly they tried to fix the boat code and failed, so they just abandoned boats and put translocator NPCs in. Obviously there will be hardass powergamers who say "good, i never liked sitting on a boat anyway" but as far as I'm concerned that detracts from the sense of being in a world (which I definitely have in EQ). The place is supposed to have boats, so fuck you if you don't like them :)

Umm...Jboots? Or will they teleport you to that island?

Presume they teleport you.

I zoned into Befallen and it looked like this (exaggerated version of how every noob zone looks atm).

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/eq/prog/befallen.jpg)

Just like old times:

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/eq/prog/campcheck.gif)

There was a large guild called "Dinvinus Vox". Don't they mean Divinus Vox? They didn't know or care.

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/eq/prog/dinvinus.gif)

Engrish grouping skills: "it die need go"

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/eq/prog/itdieneedgo.gif)

Just like old times II:

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/eq/prog/fizzle.gif)

Wonderful irony:

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/eq/prog/platmachine.gif)

The new user experience still leaves something to be desired ...

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/eq/prog/newplayers.gif)

I completely agree.  I really felt that insta travel eroded the atmosphere of the game.  To be consistent - EQ devs never learn - so used the insta travel bells in EQII.  Ya that was immersive.

Waiting on the doc really added social interaction.  You're in a world after all.  I do hate waiting for groups or not being able to solo - but I do accept that travel takes time in a "world".

Question:  so this server will grow to include other zones overtime as they are unlocked?  If so - what's the point -  the server will only lose all differentiation over time from other servers?

Dangit you guys are making me all nostalgic!

I'll never understand why the boat code worked for at least 2 years and then mysteriously broke. I remember the first time it broke (after Kunark I believe), they put the translocaters in for about a month, then supposedly fixed the code, then it magically broke again. I'll miss never being able to ever again ride that HUGE ship from BB to FV. That thing was a almost a zone in it's own right. Two of our guild members were married on it. :)

I'm fairly certain I remember reading that the boats always  -just barely- worked.  Then they added-in the Kunark shuttles screwing things around.   It's probably some wacky thing that broke in all the lines of code that have been added in all the expansions and character crap since it first released.  The boats are really just dummy characters you stand on.  Remember they could be killed, slowed or hastened before it was hacked-in to make them non-targatable and non-affectable.

We never broke up, I never ebayed the guild's loot, none of it.  You need to get off my dick already Haemish, you've been riding it raw for years.  If we oppressed you and the rest of the server that you hate us still, GOOD.  That's skill.  Bitch.

Oh this is going to be good.

(http://www.pandadesigns.com/misc/smiles/popcorn.gif)

Drama, intrigue; Holy shit this is rad!  I am glad F13 is finally getting some notice!

Words cannot describe my apathy towards stories about who shrunk whose e-peen in Everquest years ago.  Old stories from Shadowbane are more interesting.  Stories about who could PK the most miners in old UO are more interesting.  But Everquest?  Come on, it invented literally everything people here hate about the genre.  Or at least stole it all from the MUD world.

How do you feel about WoW?

It's EQ minus some of the suck, plus Blizzard production values.  I get the urge to play it once in a while, but never seem to last more than a month.  /shrug

I can attest that the boat code was pretty fucked up even back in open beta, when the boat for Erudin dumped me in the water after zoning, which was a common occurance at release as well. I think they totally screwed the boat code in Kunark some time after people figured out you could snare the boats and root them and crash the zone to get the fish dragon to respawn for the druid epic. After they fixed that bug the boats just got flakier and flakier.

For me boat rides were one of those things that it was cool to do in a game once. The 800'th time you had to take a boat was beyond boring. That's why I like WoW's flight point model. Walking to a new place once is fun, walking there every time gets old fast. While the Ocean of Tears was a pretty cool zone I would have liked boats better in EQ if they'd just skipped it like WoW does.

Huh? Twice in the last week I've been dumped in the water by a boat ... in WoW.


So the gaping hole in your knowledge is that you've never lasted long enough to experience a raiding game. All you know is sandboxes and levelling curves.

In both EQ and WoW, the driving force is raiding content. Your entire motivation for playing gets changed overnight and it literally becomes like a whole new game (which horrifies many people when they find out how much it changes). You get switched to a path of years, not months, where the gameplay is quite different. Levelling a character in WoW is the equivalent of watching an intro movie. In EQ people used to say raiding was where "the real game starts", but I wouldn't say that because you can follow other paths in the game. But it is where the real understanding of dikus starts, for better or worse.

Not really, it just came up in a saved Google search automatically emailed to me, I have no idea what F13 is about and I doubt I'll return once this is done.  I recognized both Haemish and Lum so I replied.  Haemish has been stalking me with this nonsense for years already.  A lot of the Karana inhabitants are simply upset that we took over the spawns and camp areas.

If you tracked him down due to a google ego search, one has to question who's stalking who.

I didn't track him down.  You can save Google searches that automatically email you, I had one saved as [deyth combine].  If anything I am stalking myself.

Stroking one's own ego to relive catass glories gone by?

Why would I need to with the constant stream of glories still to come?  This seems to be another wannabe Lum the Mad-type site, probably flush with pseudo-gamers spouting deep thoughts on things they'll never excel at while quivering at the brush with celebrity that the posting devs (in red names of course) give them.  It would have to be if Haemish was on the staff.  I bet it's the same people that support all these knockoffs but there will never be another Lum.

Haemish, keep crying, you keep my name alive in places that most gamers would never come to, like this one.

That's kind of neat.  So if I make one for [<me> hot babe] I should expect my mailbox to start overflowing any minute?

(Or none at all. :-P  I have an amazingly non-existant web profile.)

The Emperor Deyth: Pathetic f13lings. Hurling your bodies out into the internet, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the internet, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror.

Klytus: Most effective, Your Majesty Deyth. Will you destroy this F13?
The Emperor Deyth: Later. I like to play with things a while before annihilation.

The Emperor Deyth: Klytus, I'm BOOOORED.

Klytus: Bring me... the bore worms!
Princess F13: No! Not the bore worms!

I like you.  You will be spared.

Does anyone have a link to what exactly needs to be downloaded (minimal hopefully!) for the progression servers? I have no clue where to get started here (and yes, I was a hardcore EQ player, wanted to see if it's still as addicting as it was!)

Thanks :)

Found one, n/m.

Damn its hard to find free trials on everquest.com.

When WTO blew up, people wandered around.  Some wandered here, some wandered elsewhere, most wandered back and forth.  Haemish wandered here and now he has his own place.  Schild was never on ltm and had only been on WTO briefly.  I think Lum is hiding behind the wet mop in the cupboard but if you ask him, I'm sure he'd be happy to ignore you.  He's a master at that!  Anyway, I don't know what anyone is talking about anymore and I don't know why anyone would stalk themselves.  That's just pervy.

I don't know, sounds to me like Haemish might have touched a nerve if he took the time to register and defend his e-peen so many years later.

Also, I'm not buying the m4d skillz angle since I seem to recall this was the same Combine that tucked tail and ran from the first SB server I played on (Treachery I think) about the time I started playing.

Maybe this is why it sounds familiar.  If so, I envy your memory.   :oops:

You seem to have missed the sarcasm behind the use of the word "glories". To most of us, these are games, not life achievements. However, I'm sure you're all the better for not being just a pseudo gamer or having deep thoughts.

He needs deep quivering Haemish staff.  In his butthole.

Bleh, Eq Trilogy Trial (http://everquest.station.sony.com/trilogy/download.jsp) stops downloading at 175M out of 1.8 gig.

Ironically, if they had a trial download of what's needed for progression server, I'd probably convert to a paying account (I actually enjoyed old world a lot) for several months, but not buying EQ -again-.

It used to be that all you needed was the EQ station launchpad.  So long as you had a valid login, the game would DL everything else as it discovered the file was missing.   Took about 2 hours to 'install' that way, but was far better than cd-swapping.

Actually, when the ritual is complete, there WILL be another Lum. Take that, Killbotx.

Games are transitory.  Self-important assholes are forever.

thejeni 2.0

I know Lum quite well, he's the one on the ground. (http://www.the-combine.net/Pics/00000281.jpg)

Everyone tucked and ran from SB and it had nothing to do with other players.  Our only defeat was at the hands of sb.exe and WP.  And please, don't pretend like you play games.  I know the kind of people who hang out here rarely get past level 7.

I never pass up a chance to thank those stroking my epeen.  Insulting Haemish is just my quaint way of doing that.  To think that the trauma I inflicted still lingers after all this time...my epeen swells with pride.  It wasn't even a PvP game.  Imagine how much he'd be crying now if it was.


You seem to have missed my disdain for the sarcasm.  You must not be used to interacting with people smarter than you, should get off this board and explore once in a while.

I expect better when I visit a site specializing in pseudo-gamer board warriors.  Petty word games are just above that picture of a retard crossing a finishing line.  If I'm going to enjoy my short time here I need you to try harder.  Or are you hoping a red name will come in and save the day?  Preferably in tights, an image that will keep you locked in your bathroom for weeks.

I made a difference in Haemish's life; obviously my importance transcends my own oversized well-earned ego.  What do you have besides sitting around posting about transitory games you make no difference in?

(http://xs303.xs.to/xs303/06271/Lum.gif) (http://xs.to)

This is some solid internet. I'd like a second helping filled with vanilla pudding. Maybe glazed too. Hell, let's go all the way, throw some sprinkles on top also.

This is our token Stratics member.  I highly recommend you invest in one!

Technically I'm not a member since I got banned again about four days after re-registering.  Now I just lurk around there trying to figure out WTF is up with this Mythic dealie.

What is this board warrioring Deyth keeps talking about?

It's not a guild site. It's not an MMO website. It's not even a competitive gaming website.

[edit] Hell, it's barely a gaming website. More than half the posts are about Britney, guitars, Pat Robertson, or the RIAA. And the ones about gaming are reviews or theories on game design.

Not the ideal place to swing your little cock around really (Don't feel bad though. We really wouldn't care if it was big either).

But it's got you talking about him.

Ta da.

More interesting than EQ, I guess.

I can easily make this thread about me though, if you want.

All you need is a dancing avatar...

(http://www.2something.com/Uploads/F%20Connor%20man%20dancing.gif)

Is that it? Even Douchematic can come up with better playground wit than that.

(http://www.the-combine.net/Pics/00000281.jpg)

You seem to have killed him!  Why?  WHY? 

And why do you look exactly like my cousin, Nuncio?   :|

PS  you have the most wee tiny hands I have ever seen on a man!  They are quite lovely.

If I lost weight I suppose I'd kind of look like him. God forbid I ever wear that shirt though.

Naw, green does not go well with your eyes.  Also your hair is not gray enough.

I don't check the site for 24 hours and we get the guy who got drunk and got his eyebrows shaved off the first time he left the attic posting here now?  What the fuck Schild?   

Can't blame me.

Seriously.

I fucking hated Everquest.

What is that bulge in Lum's pants? 

Just for reference, the boats were working up until some time after the release of LDoN, at least on Karana.

Must be a lag thing. That hasn't happened on our server in months. I can sympathize though. How fucking hard is it to trigger a zone change for everyone on the boat when it hits the line? Appearanly rather difficult as both WoW and EQ had so much trouble with it.

Even better is in WoW, under very high lag, the boat from wetlands to theramore ends up in Stonetalon mtns. I think the zepplin to undercity ends up in Arathi Highlands or somewhere like that under the same conditions.

This will be my last comment to stroke your attention whore ego, but honestly, your achievements (or anyone's, for that matter) in EQ or any other game you've played or will play mean less in the grand scheme of things than the dump I took this morning. Hence the word, "game".

And the shirt? The Renfaire called, they want their costume back.

Huzzah.

Also, whoever designed that website is a moron.

That is all.

You know.   :oops:

Dear god, we've devolved to analyzing my pants. Shoot this thread now.

(Pic was taken at DAOC's first fanfair, near its launch, I think, when Combine played, and I told him I'd give him a killshot in return for some really pricey drink.)

(Oh, and I look very peaceful because it was late and I was sleeepy. Ah, sweet floor, how I missed you.)

Obviously he stuffed his moneyhat into his pocket before the picture was taken.


Also- Deyth, you should seriously consider killing yourself. Doesn't the never ending stench of feline excrement make it unbearable to go on?

Your guild never broke up? Well, they sure as hell disappeared from Karana, you self-important twat. Perhaps some of your inbred circlejerks stayed together and formed an unimportant guild somewhere else, but for all intents and purposes, your Combine split into two other guilds, which spent years maintaining a rotation on planes and dragon targets while talking big shit about how hardcore they were. Your "skill" involved running pell-mell to a static encounter every time it popped, then killing the same targets the same way because they did the same script of tactics over and over again. That's not skill, it's perserverence. You certainly have more patience for boring, robotic pixel-smashing than I do. If that makes you hardcore, enjoy it. I personally got tired of that static, stale gameplay model after the first year of raiding.

Yep, you sure did. You showed me just how fluffed up and self-important people can become on MMOG's, including myself. Thankfully, it only took me a year and a half of running a guild trying to do raids to learn how much of a dead-end bit of stupidity that is. As for trauma, no, you are just one more name in the list of cockgobblers who ruin games. It's a mighty long list.

Oh and you actually took the trouble to save a Google search on yourself that gets emailed to you? Are you fucking kidding me? I thought I had a big ego.

Threads like these are the reason I keep coming back.

I love you all!

I'm disappointed - Haemish is holding back.

It's called "switching games" dipshit.  Some people stayed behind and formed new guilds, how amazing.  I may do the boring, robotic pixel-smashing but you forego that to instead dedicate a serious amount of time to TALKING ABOUT IT.  Newb.  For all the claims in this thread of how unimportant games are, or any success to be had inside them, you all seem to spend a serious portion of your lives discussing them.

My "skill" was traumatizing others, and a job fucking well done I'd say.  You're scarred for life, Haemish.

You really like to read your own words, don't you? No one wants your shriveled epeen here.

Is that your way of asking the bad man to go?

No, that's a slightly subtle way to call one such as yourself a self-important douchebag. Whatever you have done, it's of no consequence, especially when it comes to gaming.

And who the fuck stores a Google search of themselves, and gets automated emails pertaining to such searches, just so they can go to the source and talk about themselves? Get over yourself buddy.

These names, they hurt.  Why you hurt me so?

I like to know where I'm being talked about.  Obviously with good reason, halfwit.

Oh, you have to strike down that smack talk going on about you on the other side of the internets?

Again, who gives a shit.

Not strike down, participate.  It's entertaining.  Perhaps you are young still, but know in the future you too will get pleasure from those who ride the penis.  Cyber or otherwise.

I do!

Edit: Would you please leave, nobody wants you here. KTHXBYE.

Like I said Deyth, it's not a rival guild site. It's barely about anything you'd associate with competitive gaming (and the shittalking thereof).

That schtick is kind of pointless here. Nobody is "board warrioring" with you. Nobody is arguing with you. No one's even pissed at you. We're telling you to shut the fuck up out of pity. Because we care. Because it's sad to see some retard bring boxing gloves to a table tennis match. And whatnot.

Table tennis? What the fuck am I supposed to do with these shouldermapads?

Couple of things I have learned from this post:

1. Based on my post count (3), and inverse logic, I have a massive "E-peen"
2. Google searches can be saved and mailed to you
3. Said saved searches can be use to highlight a creepy bit of self-stalking from (most likely) a mid-forties, small-dicked, bald, unemployed, living in his mom's basement, male who spends most of his self-indulgent time with his grippies around his ankles, one-handed typing to some other man-boy-assclown named "Chrsitie".
4. Gaming as a living (that is coding, designing, building the infrastructure, etc) is a worthwhile enterprise and worthy of much discussion like any other profession.
5. Confusing the above with playing games is where the mistake is made. Nothing you do in-game matters at all, anywhere. Confusing in-game "goals" as achieving something that matters is sad.
6. Most importantly, EQ1 nostalgia is sweet and I have many fond memories. The reality of the game (as of last night for me) is far, far different. It's kind of like remembering your highschool sweetheart, compaired to the reality of what she may be now.

I never said games were unimportant. They are important, if only to give people something to do that they enjoy. As for the accomplishments in them, well, they mean fuckall outside of the people involved.


How is calling you and your crew of twat waddlers useless sacks of DNA from the ejaculate of a catass traumatized? I call it like I see it. Your crew of inflated egos and puffed chests made things like instancing necessary. Your kind made me realize that spending 13 hours clearing a zone for 5 pieces of loot was retarded. You did me a service, like a blowjob only with more positive afterglow.

And again, you discovered this thread doing a Google ego search that you do routinely enough to have set it up as a macro. You owned yourself.

When the sweetheart is EQ, you realize bitch has crabs.

Are you a griefer?

Ive seen the picture.

i'd like a second opinion .

I see your point. I didn't mean that statement like you can do anything, pee on anyone's parade or be a general cat's ass at the expense of others.  I meant it in the vein (no pun intended) that "earning" the "Massive E-peen Sword of Pwnage" doesn't amount to squat in real life. As in, real goals are things like raising a family, owning your own house, out-living the life sucking bitch you pay alimony to.......that kind of thing.

I'm not here saying my guild is better than yours, especially since I doubt most of you play games otherwise where would you find the time to sit around discussing them endlessly?

3. You managed to throw in every cliche in there, well done.  Thing is, people have actually met me in real life, including Lum (see picture posted above).  It's more likely you fit that description than I do.
5. Things you do in-game matter in the gaming community.  That's where your disconnect is because you're not a part of that community.

Haha!  How long did it take before you stopped crying yourself to sleep?

Why is it always one or the other?  So you can either be good at games or be good at real life?  I'll have to ponder that as I'm partying in the Dominican Republic tomorrow or taking in Italy later this year.  Pseudo-gamer wannabe intellectual losers.  You can't even win at simple games, let's not even get started on real life.

Hey Deyth, the jerk store called. They're running out of you!

(http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/breath/Faces_asthma/present_images/VIIB1.gif)

Though, everyone involved in this little piss fight is missing the point.

Are you serious?  Did you pull on your suspenders and yuck loudly in satisfaction after that post?

My Goodness, someone who makes Bruce look sane.

I'm shocked and strangely excited.

For the record, I didn't even want to enter this conversation "fo' realz" until you started trashtalking the website because of some 6-8 year old grudge against one person.

See Deyth, here's the problem. When you saw Haemish's post in your little freaky Google emailer thing, you should have ignored it. The fight between you all doesn't belong here. The vast majority of people here have no clue what the hell you all are talking about and definately don't care about watching you all sword fight with your wangs. No one cares about your fantastically huge badass guild and f13 isn't some site just for a guild. We don't care about that sort of political bullshit. We take games very seriously, but not so seriously that we're wandering from website to website to website hoping that someone mentions us in all of our glory.

You on the otherhand are one of the prime reasons websites like ours exists. We're the foil of The Combine. You coming here to bitch and moan about what someone said is completely missing the mark. If you're so proud of your guild and all of the shit you've done with it, you should have taken a smug satisfaction in knowing Haemish was lying to make himself feel better. In fact, by coming here and starting a fight about revisionist history, you've cast your view of what happened and his view of what happened in a suspicious light.

While that makes for good drama, it doesn't make for interesting debate on MMOG killpolitics.

You're an asshole uberguilder, and Haemish is an asshole MMOG critic. Those personality types should never, EVER clash lest they open up a black hole of suck that will destroy reality as we know it. So go the fuck back to your corner of the web and stay the hell away from here.

People should just supaplex.

supaplex supaplex

I know I'm coming into this thread late, but fuck is that really the real Deyth from The Combine?

Man, back in the day these guys were the biggest badasses on the server. They fuckin' pwned the high end of the game.


sorry, can't go on. I've played EQ since before Kunark, with breaks on and off, raided for most of that time, on Brell > Cazic, and I've never fucking heard of you or your guild. You're just another self-important wanker who got some notoriety on your own server by being in Uberguild_024 but here's a clue for you. Unless you were in FoH or, um.. Afterlife, noone else has heard of you or gives a shit. You got your photo taken with Lum? Like, massive grats, mate. A dev spoke to you once. Awesome!

Anyway, how is it you have time to troll here? Shouldn't you be out catassing? Or maybe betaing Vanguard?  :-D

Actually most people here probably play more games than you. We also do a lot of things entirely unrelated to gaming. It's just that most of us don't spend all of our time catassing in one single game.

Why did you repeat yourself?

You know, this is even better than the UO thread -- but it's missing something. Maybe Dayeth can post a chart showing his Epeen over time? Perhaps one showing the ratio of his "badassery" to Haemish's "wankeriffic"?

'cause I want me some more charts, dammit.

Dude, you can save google searches and have it email you with updates.

Sweet!

He might well be catassing in WoW, or, um, L2 at present. There's plenty of sweet sweet cat ass out there, ripe for the taking.

ew

This is true, but 'betaing Vanguard' directly implies catassing anyway, so there's redundancy from that point of view.

Wow, I googled myself and found press coverage on something I did (http://www.austin360.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/digitalsavant/entries/2006/03/14/game_designers.html) that I hadn't seen before. I couldn't figure out how to save it though. I guess I need to level up my self-fascination skills.

Lum, can you respond directly to my post so I can use you as a reference on my epeen resume?

I too can quote myself.  How well I called this. 

Lesson-learned: do not invoke those-who-should-not-be-named.  Google channels them. :cthulu:

Wow, that's actually sage advice, and witty to boot!

I learned most of those things that Fibenoochi or whoever it was learned.  I'm much to lazy to check back for his name.  Except my postcount makes my epeen very very teeny which is good because I think a huge one would upset my husband.  I also learned that thingy what Soln learned.  Because I've been up all night ( :|) I couldn't concentrate enough to read the article on Lum's link, but I think I learned his real name is Omar.

Sorry, no.

You found my identity!

(http://www.wvah.com/programs/house/omarepps.jpg)

Great work on House, man.  Great work.

I think his best work is playing a white game designer. That is some serious acting!

I agree.

That games designer mindset thing is a hell of a challenge to get right.

Also, are you sure you're not this Omar?

(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5508/piccalvin4lb.jpg)

Because Hangin With Mr. Cooper was the shit.

Actually I leave the pretending to be black to you, jefe.

I am black.

Well, I guess he told you!

This is true, but 'betaing Vanguard' directly implies catassing anyway, so there's redundancy from that point of view.
[/quote]

In a way, yes, but Vanguard seems to be not only a very special kind of catass, but also just the kind of thing designed for measuring your e-peen in terms of how much cat ass you've had. And he'd have to be blowing Brad and Sigil on their forums to get the Beta Invite, which makes it all the more delicious.

LFG to cut a tree? That's beyond normal levels of catassery, I think you must agree.

Good point.

Still, Vanguard should prove to be entertaining...to watch from a safe distance, at least.

I was on The Combine server last night and there were already two level 50s showing, plus about 10 more in the 40s. I think it took them less than a week to get to 50 on a new server. At that rate they'll probably have a raiding force next week :)

I think I figured out where a lot of The Combine's noobs have come from: EQ2. They've heard how EQ1 was more hardcore, but they were offline or in their childhood in 1999, and this is a chance to find out what it was all about. They know all the zone names and the lore because of EQ2, but they get laughed at in groups for their lack of EQ1 tactical knowledge and they suck at travel (Freeport-Qeynos etc).

Actually, the Combine has been around for quite a while. I had a friend who played with them in UO. As far as MMO epeening goes, they deserve some mention, I guess.

It's just that that silly bullshit has no place here really.


Or....Are you talking about a specific server called "The Combine" now?

I'm so confused.

The combine server is an eq1 progression server, as of right now its the original eq1 as far as zones go, kunark will be unlocked before long im sure. but its a server, not a guild were talking about

I'm talking about the EQ1 progression server called The Combine, which is the TOPIC OF THIS THREAD :P

Stray probably got confused when that moron came in here waving his shrivelled e-peen around.

The Combine has been around indeed for years, and in other games.  Monika T'Sarn (who is an f13 member) was the first Jedi to unlock in SWG. 

Since it was brought up, what has happened to Vanguard?  I thought the Diplomacy stuff was innovative.  And I got over the whole trees-dropping-resources-as-loot thing.  Is anyone still in the Beta?

The Combine Empire as it relates to EQ1: (from http://www.graffe.com/library.php?id=81)

FoH has apparently killed Lord Nagafen already: http://www.fohguild.org/index.php

Is this really written by (then) Verant?  Because shouldn't that be principles?

No, they all agreed to have those same high school principals come and regulate Norrathian detention. Otherwise known a PoP raid.

I kill me!

Isn't detention more like being the ones that have to sit out on a GoD+ Age raid (where most instanced raids are limited to 54 or less)?

That's one of the amusing things about the Planar Age.  First raids got up to requiring more and more people, allowing up to 72 in Time, then they brought down the 54 person cap for most later raids.

Although, Furor throwing a fit because Phase 1/2 of Time require a guild to split into five groups was perhaps one of the most entertaining moments in EQ drama.

So the first three bosses, Vox, Naggy, and Phiny, are down in 10 days on the Combine, opening the Alter Planes, and FOH is gearing up in Hate to take down the planar bosses.  It might take them a week, two would surprise me.  And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth on the official boards and in chat channels.   We'll be in Kunark before July ends. 

It isn't just FOH, everybody is ripping through the old world content.  Most players I've met are very old vets indeed, and even casuals know the content very well.  Despite the proclamations, this really isn't too tough, and it isn't 'Old EQ'.  It lacks that confusion.

Oh, there are no POK books, and no Paudal Caverns, but many of the really nasty parts of early EQ are gone.  No corpse runs until level 6, soulbinders in most every zone, mana bonus (breeze) from level 14, there are many changes from the original.  Not enough, not when a small guild is spread over three continents, divided by all manner of hostile NPCs.  This is one place Shadowbane got things very right; your guild starts every play session in the same place, at least until your city burned.  Not so in EQ, even within the confines of the old world.  Kunark will stretch the small guilds even harder.  I trust this is old news to the designers out there.

Some zones have vastly updated graphics, namely Freeport, Nektulos Forest, Lavastorm, the Desert of Ro.  Much of the rest is unchanged so far.  If you have fond memories of Blackburrow, don't go back, the graphics will burn your eyes.

All in all, this really is rather like a condensed version of EQ.  Everyone is rocketing along, but the Ubers are pulling away.  It's like watching a familiar movie on fast forward, a blend of nostalgia and slapstick.

Oh, the patch just before launch nerfed the Stein of Moggok quest.  Ogguk was filled with crestfallen enchanters.  It was a lot like old school EQ.

Edit:  Looking at my tag, it would appear I'm not special like everyone else.  Predictable, really.

I cannot stand the new Nektolous forest. What is that, a WoW theme park? That was my fookin home for months, damn it! They totally hosed the spooky dark atmosphere of that zone with the new one. Remember that wierd unexpected hole with the 5 shadowmen in it? The hill down to the halfling druid circle? All gone!

If the point of the 'classic' server was to cater to those with nostalgia, they screwed the pooch as far as I am concerned.

I was just wondering if something happened to Rogues at some point. My account was for some reason unlocked, so I logged into my old 65 rogue....

He was backstabbing lvl 1 mobs in WFP for like, 200dmg maybe, with NO assassination 30k BSs....wtf happened?

I googled myself and found out I am either a frickin cartoonist from Kansas City or a bowler from Kingman, Arizona. Damn, I've never been to Kansas or Arizona! I wonder if my wife is hawt.

Margolis nailed it, really. The hardest part of the old EQ1 was the lack of knowledge. Knowing, as they say, is half the battle. So when you know everything about the old world, it's not nearly so hard. And of course, any parts that might have been missed are easily found on Allakhazam, etc, which wasn't nearly the option is is today back then. I remember scrounging zone maps off of Everlore, just so I could have an idea where I was wandering around.

And that's the other thing, as Margolis mentioned. So much has changed. The 1-50/60 game has changed incredibly for the better/easier since the first Wood Elves fell out of Kelethin to their deaths. It's a combination of knowing all the content like the back of your hairy hand and it not being nearly so tough as it actually was first time round.

And the willingness of FoH et al to Catass their way through the content as quickly as possible. But were SoE really expecting any different? Oops, apparently they were!

Why do you think SOE is surprised at the content consumption rate? I don't recall any "official" opinions one way or the other. I expected Naggy down within a month.

The Progression servers are business genius. I know 8 people who upgraded to All Access to play on The Sleeper. If a few thousand did the same thing, then SOE is making some nice incremental revenue for little incremental investment. It should lead other MMOG companies to consider "classic" servers if applicable.

You're just going to start the stampede of "Pre-Renaissance UO Server!" retard slapfights.

I'd have gone with the Pre-CU ones myself, as they're another bit of SOE property and more recently contentious. It didn't have those neat charts, though.

Will killing Baz Nitch unlock the CU then?  What do we have to kill to get into space?

Has the Combine server actually opened up the planes now, or is it patch-cycle dependent?

The planes are open, the gods are dead.  Kunark isn't open last I heard, which may be a bug or may be sony's "we have a time lock as a failsafe to prevent exploits, but it's set twice as fast as we could imagine anyone actually unlocking anything in our wildest dreams" plan underestimated the appetites of their playerbase yet again.  Unlocks were not supposed to be patch-dependent.

Actually, reading between the lines of what SOE said before the servers launched, they pretty much expected Kunark to be unlocked in a fortnight or so.
The first keying cockblocks didn't start appearing until Kunark, after all.

Looks like a one month lockout timer on Kunark. http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Progression&message.id=32676

So...they effectively earned the right to unlock Kunark is less than 10 days or so?

The amount of catassing and borderline-exploiting activity that must have occurred is staggering.

I still don't get this - if the zones can be opened at all - let alone this quickly - in a few months this server will be like any other.  What am I missing?

e-peen ramifications.

1. Nostalgia for people who played early EQ. They've no intention of staying around long-term, it's just entertaining be restricted to the oldschool areas and see how the people around you deal with it again. Yes, in a few months the server will be like any other, but until then it's interesting.
2. For FoH etc, the catass equivalent of being the first and fastest to climb a mountain. Why? Because it was there. Because you get a kick out of it, no other reason.
3. The evolution of a community and economy from nothingness. A brand new server is a frontier, and this one is something different for a while.

It's a chance for immortality, of a kind. Be a part of FoH and be recorded as the ones who opened up <content> on <date>.

Also better for what few actual newbies EQ gets, or for old-timers EQ wants to get back as subscribers.  You need, what, 75 levels now and many hundreds of AAs to get into a guild on a regular server these days?  And basically zero groups available for the first 90% of those levels?  Easier to get back into the game here.

But I suspect the main point is to soak a few months of nostalgia money out of people (like me).

It was nice to see the old zone full of people, instead of ghost towns.  There was a lot of fun to be had there, particularly since this time around you knew what to expect, and some of the more annoying kinks were ironed out.  Once Kunark opens, a lot of that will go, as the population melts into the larger continent.

Mind you, I'm glad Kunark will be opening up.  The classic zones are a lot like a visit with family.  It can be a lot of fun for a while, but it isn't long until you remember why you left.

Velious may not be unlocked for a while, all things considered.  Depends on whether or not the various groups of ubers on those servers are competing or working together.  If they're working together, it'll be pretty quick, if they're competing, could be a while.  This is assuming the key to unlocking Velious is fully wiping out Veeshan's Peak and defeating Phara Dar.

Keys will be the issue that slows it down - in order to enter Veeshan's Peak, *each* person needs a key.  Trakanon drops 6 pieces, if I remember right, and that only once every 3 days.  Other pieces have spawn times of 8 hours, or are drops from random named spawns.  If there's competition for these keys, it'll slow things down even further.

Wow, so EQ Progression servers claim you can open up the expansions with concerted effort, but only if you do so after the minimum amount of time has passed?

That is SO EQ. I laugh at cuntrags like FOH busting their little noggins trying to unlock Kunark only to find out they did it too fast.

This will just give them some extra weeks to lock down Naggy/Vox/Planes bosses so they can have Trak down 3 days after the Kunark is unlocked.

Edit: What expansion opens up AA points?

AA were post Luclin iirc, so probably Planes of Power.

Were they post luclin? I thought they came WITH Luclin.

That would explain why my fondest EQ memories come from launch to Velious.

Well, that and the whole Cockblock that is Luclin endgame content.  Even years after the expansion was out it was still a pain in the ass to even attempt to get into VT as a casual guild.

I can't fathom the people who want AAs to be added into WoW.  Roll an alt or just don't play the game 24/7.. there's enough farming & grinding already, I don't need XP farming as well.

Maybe this "experiment" will make them realize that a mmo with an "end" can actually work. Another EQ clone that resets when someone kills the Rear Admiral Foozle, but something more like ww2o.

You could have different victory conditions for different servers, like the options menu in Civ when you start up a new game. Diplomatic % of the world conquered (SB-clone without the awful client) etc.

Raiding Molten Core for X months until Molten Core X goes live and patched into the game sucks.

Yeah, I don't like having to keep up with XP grinding in order to raid. Those are two separate things for entirely different personalities. I enjoy becoming a better level 60 druid in WoW, like I enjoyed becoming a better Master Doctor in SWG, and a better 60 warrior in EQ. "People who need AA" rank with those who hate travel in MMOGs and love killing 900,000 faction mobs to add another micromillimetre to their DPS. I wish all those people a bubonic plague.

This is just hilarious to me.  Being the first to kill nagafen was what put FoH on the map oh so many years ago, and here they are once again... what is it now, 7? years later doing the same thing again.

Yea, I know, they should really get out of the fucking house.

I'm sure I read something where they said different. I think they expected at least a month before Kunark would be opened up by the playerbase.



70 levels. 75 comes in September with the new (initially, at least) download-only expansion. The number of AAs you need to get into a guild depends on how much ass you like with your cat, though, as far as Guilds go.

And yes, they want your money.




Nope. Post. Luclin was the expansion where if you were 60 and didn't want to waste your time keying for VT, you basically only logged on for raids.



I'd rather have AAs and LDoN style armour in WoW. I've just gotten my second toon to 60 less than a week ago (hardly a hardcore catass rate of play, since I first started a few weeks after release) , and I'm already bored shitless.

At 60, there's nothing meaningful to do in the game outside of either 5/10-manning the same shit forever and ever, or joining a raid guiild. Or grinding rep so you can access a new tailoring recipe. Whoop-de-fucking-doop. None of those 3 options appeals at all. I'd rather have the incremental upgrades that LDoN/GoD and AAs give you, thanks.



I can't be arsed with long travel in MMOGs. Once I've made the trip, you know, seven hundred times, taking 25mins to go where I want to start playing doesn't add a t=on of fun to my gameplay experience and instead is the equivelent to clearing trash mobs so you can eventually get to the good encounter. Only, you know, even less fun. Needing AA rank I see as no different to needing PVP rank. I need neither, but I like the idea of being once again able to get online for 20 minutes or an hour and being able to do something worthwhile to/for my character, even at level 60.

You know, instead of needing to LFG for an instance I've already done 47 times before in the hope I can get a slight upgrade to my whacking foozle, if it drops and some other cunt doesnt beat me on the roll. Or having to join a raid guild. Or if I can't be arsed with either of those, faction grinding, which is already ingame and appears far far worse than it ever was in EQ1.

I guess I could do a 30-minute quest with a payoff of 1g40s. mm, worthwhile.

No they came with Luclin. I quit right before PoP came out and I was grinding AAs before that.

Yep.  The first pane of AA's was released with Luclin.  Very shortly after Luclin was released, Fungus Grove became the uber exp zone for level 60's, cause it had tons of easy mobs that gave the best exp/time for 60's grinding AA's.  No set of AA's except the Veteran Rewards (which I only mention since they appear on the AA pane) has been released between expansions.

Wasn't there an expansion between Luclin and PoP? Or is my memory of old EQ expansions becoming hazy as they all flow into one another?

EQ, Kunark, Velious, Luclin, Planes of Power, Legacy of Ykesha, Lost Dungeons of Norrath, Gates of Discord, Omens of War, Dragons of Norrath, Depths of Darkhollow, Prophecy of Ro.

And an observation about that makes me note that the space between Planes of Power and Gates of Discord was the longest EQ ever went without really raising the bar, which also reminds me that I still haven't heard anything about how Legacy of Ykesha or Lost Dungeons of Norrath is going to fit into the release scheme.  Since they don't raise the bar, it makes little sense that defeating Quarm would be the key to opening either of them.

AAs came out with Luclin.  They are also the debil.  Grind your ass for 50 hours to gain a 1% defense increase that will counteract the 1% defense nerf we just put in.  Grind your ass for 50 hours to gain basic convenience commands that should have been in the game from day one like pet hold.  Grind your ass for 50 hours to get long-overdue improvements to our shitty UI like health of target's target.  Even better, it makes it almost impossible for any new players to catch up.  Levels you can catch up to.  Gear you can skip most of.  AA's are cumulative.

That's what makes WoW's faction system better if they tuned it a bit.  Players who can't survive without some bar on their screen inching forward get to do that, and they get to do it for a long time, and they get rewarded with some nice gear.  Nice gear that is rendered obsolete in a few months, so the rest of us never need to ever worry about grinding that shit.  It eliminates the cumulativeness problem that makes AA sucks, and keeps them from making "grind to have a functioning interface = content" design decisions like SOE.

It's not about a bar, it's about *something*.

Seriously. If you're not a raider, and not interested in PUGs to raid 5 and 10-man groups but don't mind doing them with mates when they're on, what does WoW leave you left with to do?

Faction/Rep grinding. Grinding to farm cash.

Shitty Battlegrounds. Or Queues, anyway. Which is just another form of rep grinding.


Where's the advancement outside of running the same instances to death, or raiding? It's not about making the bar go across, it's about "can I actually improve my character without raiding?"

There's nothing there for the often-solo casual who doesn't enjoy rep grinding. I just looked up what you need to do to get one of those weapons from Sithilis. Grind about 30,000 rep points. Who's idea of casual-friendly or fun was that? Fuck that, let me do missions to get points to buy new gear LDoN style. Let me gain something worthwhile from all these fucking mobs I have to kill to get my shitty rep up.

What's wrong with just being done with the game if you don't want to partake in any of those other activities?

AA improvements never, EVER helped more than gear.  In the long run, as ElGallo pointed out, they hurt the game far more than help it because of the long grind to get to 'acceptable' status even after the cap.  They are a broken form of advancement for folks who just won't move on since they're done with the game, and cock blocks for those who join and want to catch-up.  They are a lousy system.

LDoN points are the same thing as rep farming except they don't take place in some soulless, modular shitfest LDoN dungeon.  I have no problem with either of them, since they result in gear, and therefore aren't cumulative or required for basic gameplay functions like AAs are.  If the rep gains take too long, shorten them.  Add more reps to all the good instances and high level mobs.  Every time you kill one, your rep bar moves closer to filling out the next rep level which means a new shiney.

AA are the epitome of the worst of grinding. You have to work 20-50% as hard as getting a full level yet you only get 1% of the benefit. This is on top of th cumulative problem already mentioned. At least in EQ2 they are best achieved through quest completions which makes them more tolerable since the game is build around questing already and you don;t have to turn off levelling exp to get AA exp.

This shows how they are going to do it:
http://eqprogression.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=13&Itemid=69

To invert the question: What's wrong with being unsatisfied witht he shitty options on offer? I'm done with the game when I can't be arsed with it anymore. FFS if I could stop playing EQ1, I can certainly stop bothering with WoW when I'm "done" with it. And I've done so twice.

And FWIW, I've said that I'd be happy with either the LDoN or the AA option. A lot of you don't like them, and that's fine, but I still find them a lot more worthwhile than the empty rep farming that is all that WoW offers right now. We'll just have to call it a difference of opinion on that one, lads.

Gallo, you can take the cheap shot at LDoN being shitty modular dungeons, and in a lot of ways they were. But by the same token they were also the best fun I ever had in EQ, being able to get a group of friends together and just plow through a few dungeons without camp checks and respawns and the like. If they were beautiful handcrafted locations like many of WoW's instances it would have been that much better, but that's what we had.

And it was different to WoW's rep grinding in a lot of ways. Being able to get a new decent item of gear after just a few missions, a large variety of items, being able to trade your points back in. Augments (aka socketed items). The whole idea was again overhauled in DoN as well, but both versions are far superior to WoW's rep grinds.

Really though, while I'd personally prefer both AAs and a LDoN/DoD ability to earn gear with points/crystals/tokens for misisons and the like, I'd be happy with one or the other. Because the current option of STFU and grind 30,000 points of rep is just pure shit.

I don't get that. Why on earth do you want this *something*? MMOG devs seem convinced it's what most people want, when in fact it's what makes people like me leave MMOGs. And there are others like me.

I can't stand grinding through barriers. In EQ I had a bitter struggle with the levelling part, but I loved the raiding so much that I kept up, until AA and level 65 raised the levelling bar beyond my tolerance, so I dropped out of the game. I almost didn't make it to 60 in WoW, but the opportunity to raid again drove me and I've had fun again with it. Your *something* is pure inconvenience to me. All I want is risky spaces to explore and challenges to overcome. I don't want to have to qualify for the opportunity :P

I'm a raider who goes fishing/mining once a week in Azshara for repair money, then never logs into WoW for anything else except raids. I try to keep my bank at around ~100 gold. I did the instances a few times months ago, and never again. The only rep I ever ground was Timbermaw to neutral to avoid being KOS. All other factions rose accidentally, and none are very high. I only play one character (a 60 druid), no alts.


I've never set foot in a battleground or queued for one. I once killed three people in Darnassus as my entire PvP experience in retail. I played on the PvP server in beta, but decided to be a carebear in WoW. My last serious game was SWG in 2004, where I was a hardcore city-vs-city PvP raider.

Ah, now I see where you're coming from: a completely different approach to WoW from me. The advancement I'm getting from WoW raiding as a healer is in keeping fellow raiders alive more reliably and efficiently, while keeping myself alive longer to keep them alive longer. I'm always getting better at it (instincts, reflexes, situational knowhow). Loot has helped, but I haven't lived for loot: it has come along because of group effort and the number of times I've turned up to heal.

That's how I felt about EQ also: I was a mid-geared tank and I got better and better at preventing a wipe by jumping in and tagging the right mob at the right time, using the right discipline or weapon at the right time, etc. WoW tanks do that too. That's why I say I only need new spaces and challenges, not levels: I just want to take those skills and put them up against something more difficult. It hasn't bothered me that WoW has stayed at level 60, because they have kept adding enough raid content for my guild to be unable to finish it.

It's also how I felt about SWG: I was the first to reach Master Doctor when my server opened, and I never respecced, never rerolled. I just set about enjoying being a Master Doctor, finding better and better resources to craft stronger buffs, heals and cures, and used them on PvP raids to greater and greater effect until I had a great reputation with allies. But instead of letting me keep building that gap between me and other doctors, SOE introduced the *something* for people like you: an XP grind. And we know how that went.

Fuck you guys.  Never invite some fucktard who thinks he is a pvp'er to f13 and have him post only in a EQ1 thread.  You know I dont read those.  Fuck Combine, if you got pwned by CoS then you suck ass.  I spit on the fucking nub you call an epeen bitch.

Yep, that's the problem, "I want Items!" or "I want to improve my character!"  For what?  You said you're not interested in raiding, PvP, or anything else they're offering as an 'endgame' attraction.. so you'd be done with that character after you hit 60.

The base idea behind raiding isn't rewarding the items, or improving characters. It's the cooperative challenge and overcoming obstacles with a large group.  The items just allow you to overcome that challenge and then the next one with greater ease.  That's why there's even a progression in the first place, else everyone would just skip the suckhole of MC. Uberitems do jack squat for you besides make lower instances and encounters boring as hell.

LDONs would be a nice addition, I agree.  In the end, though, how is it different from just running Strath/ Scholo/ BRS again and again and again?  The biggest change with such a system is you get to pick your own loot via reward points instead of "damnit this is the 40th Baron run and I still don't have pants."  Yeah it'd be nice if they'd implement such a system for the dungeons, but you'd still have the same complaint later; that you were bored of running the same stuff everyday.

Living up to your grief title, I see?  :-D

Az, I hear you.  I think it'd be a good idea to add factions to scholomance, brs, dm, etc with rewards that are more quickly attained than currect faction rewards, and maybe some extremely good rewards that are even more.  Or give LDoN-style "reward points" that are functionally identical to faction.  And to cut the time, or add intermediate tiers of, current faction rewards.  That's all A-OK with me.  And, of course, those bastards should be giving me a new DM-quality dungeon every month, but that's another thread.

I just do not want any rewards that give you anything except gear that will eventually be replaced for the reasons I laid out.

Goddammit, I want a grief title.

See, in EQ, I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I'm still semi-active in EQ, so if I want to raid I can jump on there with my old online mates, raid to my heart's content, and so on and so forth. However, my real-life mates are playing WoW these days, and honestly, I enjoy WoW from 1-60 more than EQ1 in any of it's forms. I'd like the *something* to be an option to do something achievable in terms of character progression besides soul-destroying rep grinding if I can't be bothered raiding.

Because, to put it bluntly, I enjoy EQ1's raids far more than WoW's ones. Better guild, better people, much, MUCH more variety in content and so on.



I don't know about that Merusk. I can say with pretty reasonable confidence that I've raided *at least* as long as you have in these games, I wasn't in FoH or whatnot, but I was there for Vox and Naggy, I was there for the 12-hour portal-break Fear runs. All the way through Quarm and beyond. I think I know a little about raiders and raiding. And the fact is that it's partly about overcoming great obstacles and so on, and it's just as much about the lootz. Even in a "family raiding guild" you still want to get to the next step, and to do so you need the brighter shiny. And boy do they want it, too. Like I said, I've been there, done that, got the T-shirt. In WoW, seeing as the game is so casual-friendly I want to do something else besides play through a version of EQ's raid game that's not nearly as good.

Why do *I* want to improve my level 60 toon? For the same reason I started playing these games in the first place. For the same reason I always liked sports games or any games where you could save your spot. Progress, persistance. I enjoy my rogue a lot, I very much enjoyed the game that got me to 60, and I'd like more, please. I don't need it to be levels if I can improve in some other way, be it talents/AAs/LDoN gear. See, I'm not out to "beat" the game. I just want to be able to continue progression of some kind at 60 without it being what you described about my 40th Baron run. I want to be able to work on some meaningful shit solo, and some with a group of mates.

For what? So I can move onto the next 5-man instance, so I can do this one again easier. So I can help out my friend who needs a hand on this quest or that.

So I can jump on, fuck around for 30minutes or an hour and feel I've achieved something on my level 60 to make it a better character.



Hey, that would be good enough for me. But not just "you need honored to get this trinket" as it is now. Fuck that. More variety in the earnable-choosable items. LDoN got that right. And yes, I'd love it if they'd add some more 5-man content rather than just topping up the raid instances every time thay add content in a patch. But as you say, that's another thread.


/auc WTB Lamentation. Offering 10pp

So much as things change, they stay exactly the same....

Personally I'm with Azazel.  There are some key advantages to AA's that aren't duplicated by faction, points systems, etc.  I suppose I have a fundamental difference of opinion with El Gallo, because I like the idea of being able to do something to improve my character forever.  Loot provides a bigger bonus, but loot is replaceable while AA's are for good.  If I can get a 5% upgrade to my melee mitigation from a piece of loot, or a 0.5% upgrade from an AA, in many ways I prefer the AA.  Because if I don't get *that* piece of loot, I'll get another one eventually.  But the 0.5% will stay with me forever.  But it's not so much the melee mitigation/avoidance/whatever AA's that people like, it's the cool ones.  Dance of the Blade, Shield of Notes, Boastful Bellow, Fading Memories - as a bard these stand out to me, and most classes have other 'cool' AA's.  And it should be noted that I'm speaking as someone with only 392 AA at the moment.

But AA's other advantages are in the acquisition.  If I want DoN crystals, I have to go do DoN stuff.  If I want LDoN points, I have to go do LDoN's.  On the other hand, if I want AA's, I can kill anything in the entire game that gives me exp, and I will be furthering my goal of gaining AA.  So if I want to camp a piece of equipment that drops off something that has a 1 in 2748 chance of spawning and then a 1 in 819 chance of actually dropping my item, at least I can say 'well, I'll be earning AA while camping'.  In the points systems, that doesn't happen.  Generally points systems are attached to mission completions.  Ok, camping is kinda boring, but the point is, AA makes camping have other worthwhile rewards.  After sitting there for 32 hours, when I fall asleep because I can't stay up anymore, at least I can be comforted in the knowledge that I've gained several AA points.  The same applies to anything else.  If I want to go help a friend with whatever, I'm getting AA.  If I want to just screw around in some old zone, I'm still getting a little AA unless the stuff is completely green.  If I want to go to the most uber exp zone, I'm getting AA.  Whatever I do, if I'm killing things that give exp, I'm advancing myself a little.

AA's were introduced as an alternate way to continue advancing your character just like leveling, only without giving the massive power increases levels do.  And they work pretty well in that regard.  People can continue working on items, raids, quests, whatever, while they also continue to amass more AA.  Just like it was for levels during 1-60/65/70.  At level 55 you could go to Sebilis or Chardok, and camp for whatever.  But you'd also be gaining exp and get 56, 57, etc, increasing your power.  Even if you never saw the Froglok Bonecaster's Robe or the Lamentation drop, you'd at least have your exp.  But once you got to 60, you were stuck.  Your only way to get better was to win the robe or the sword.  If you didn't see them drop, or if someone else won them, you wasted every second of the time at the camp.  With AA's, you improved yourself, but nowhere near on the scale of improvement as you would if you'd gained a new level.  Which is fine.  We don't need to constantly gain entire levels, but it does make people happy to at least have done something.  Instead of groaning and grudgingly coming to help when your friend wants help with his camp, you can shrug and think 'cool, exp'.

As for catching up with the Joneses..  Well, I have 392 AA right now.  Would I like to have 1200+ like some people I know?  Sure.  Do I need them all?  Nah.  I'm in a pretty high level raiding guild on my server, and I pull my weight with my 392 AA.  Some of the people I raid with have 1200+ AA's.  Some have them completely maxed, and can't get any more until the next expansion.  Some have less than me.  Catching up to a useful point is relatively easy because of the way exp continues to increase in new expansions.  The number of AA that would take months to earn if you were in Luclin at level 60 took far less time in Planes of Power at level 65.  And what took months to earn in PoP at 65 is a lot easier to get in OoW at 70.  You may not catch up numerically to the people with over a thousand AA, but you really don't need to, to be useful.  The guy that has exactly the same equipment and 1200 AA will do things a little better than you, but not by so much that you can't both do your jobs.  If I went out exping though, I could earn AA at a vastly superior rate than I did in the Luclin Age.  What would have taken me a year to get in the Luclin Age may take me a couple months of regular exp groups, if that.  So getting the 250-500 AA you need to be relatively good at your job isn't that hard.

In the end, AA allows me to play the rest of the game and get something out of it still.  Not just raids, not just the lastest and greatest item-farm.

It's all mudflation. When having all that catasstastic e-peen certification becomes "mandatory" to doing anything worthwhile in the game, that's when i quit the game.

(Also, I played a rogue in EQ....so playing solo/farming/AA grinding was simply not an option)

My EQ character, started in July 1999, had a whole six AA points at the start of PoP (which was when I quit). I got the 60 levels and forced myself to do the runspeed AAs, then raided. I can't imagine having hundreds of AAs or ever doing them. They are XP, so they are a form of near-infinite levelling. That's unacceptable to me.

In EQ2 when you hit level 70, any exp you get from whacking foozles is sent directly to your AA exp. So if you didn't kill all the bosses, do all the quests, you can still hit 50 AA through just grinding monsters.

The same thing you've been doing the entire time.

Have fun, and keep telling yourself it's different, and most importantly, alternate!

(I think one of the As stands for alternate. I don't even know, and frankly in 2006 I don't care anymore.)

You really think it's the same people? Somehow I doubt it.

>You are on an internet message board.  There are posts here.
#Read Posts
>You read, "Yea, I know, they should really get out of the fucking house."
#Post Reply "You really think it's the same people? Somehow I doubt it."
>OH NOS!!!  YOU HAVE FALLEN INTO THE SARCHASM!
>Play again?

Heh.

Hit screenshot as I ran past this in South Karana ... ultimate contrast in RP vs d00d.

(http://members.ii.net/~svandore/eq/prog/rpvsdood.jpg)

Apparently, plat is selling very well on The Combine.

Everything is selling very well on The Combine.  It is just like old time EQ, for better and for worse.

Guk, I'd forgotten what Guk was like on a weekend night.

Besides sneaking in solo for my rogue DE mask, I only ever grouped once in Lguk...

Killed Frenzied once, and won the roll on the FBSS. I was a happy rogue that day.

Schild just needs a warning sign:
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8397/sarchasm10zkcg8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)