f13.net

I'm trying to get this straight because it seems so obscene.  Apparently, if you cancel your account for a couple of months, if you want to resubscribe, you have to pay for the time that you weren't playing?  I want to believe this isn't so but they made me pony up for the month of April.  Since I already bought the latest expansion I went ahead and paid it, despite my disgust.  Even worse is that even though I resubscribed on May 11th by paying the monthly fee, my account was promptly closed on June 2nd.  I expected it to last until June 11th so I could decide if I wanted to keep playing.

Ok. That's crazy. And I wonder why people haven't talked about it before.

Me too.  It makes no sense.  People should be up in arms.

They WERE up in arms about it.. 2 years ago when FFXI came out in the states.  Since then folks have either said, "fuck them" or accepted it and kept-up their sub.  Most of the time this little snafu was hidden behind pages of bitching about people getting their characters deleted after unsubbing, tho.

I did read about the "grace period" before characters get deleted, and I missed mine by a few weeks.  I don't even mind it so much because they tell you upfront that your precious character(s) will be executed if you fail you re-sub within a certain amount of time.  But now it's like they're being taken hostage and held for ransom.  "If you want to see 'Imapimp' alive again you will pay us $36.xx by midnight at the first of next month, or he will feel the cold steel of a samurai sword upon his neck."  That should be enough to keep peoples' subscriptions going.  But charging people for months that they received no service whatsoever sounds criminal and shouldn't be legal.  I don't know what the law says, especially in Japan, but it's a total wreckage of principle.

People still play FFXI?

I signed up for the 1 month free trial they were giving out to cancelled subscribers last year. I played about three days then uninstalled the game again. Not once did I ever agree to pay for the service again. Around 4 months later I got a notice saying I owed them $40 in subscription fees. They sent me 3 notices total, and by the time I got the "Final Notice" I owed them around $80. They don't respond to emails, and you have to login to contact support. My cds were damaged so I could no longer install the game without buying another copy. I guess I could send them a letter in the mail.

I had the same thing happen with a website hosting company. And they turned it iver to a collection agency, who in turn started reporting it to 2 of the 3 reporting agencies as a bad debt/writeoff. I'd start checking your credit if I were you.

I don't think this is true. I've resubscribed a couple of times and only paid for the current month.

The stupid practice they have is that they rebill the first of the month. If you subscribe the 30 May you'll have to pay again the 1st June. So two monthly fees in just a few days.

Plus all the payments are automatic. It's not like they send you bills you have to pay later.


Yep, see above.

Oh, it's true all right.  My account ended in March, when I re-subbed in May, they specifically stated that I owed them for the month of April.  Since I already bought the latest expansion and opened the box, I gritted my teeth and paid it.




No, but you have to pay them to resubscribe.

Charging somebody a monthly fee and then terminating it after three weeks (let alone your example of one day) because it happens to be the first of the month should be illegal.

How's that game goin' anyways? I don't hear much about it. I played a little bit at launch, then quit accordingly.

I liked some aspects of it and hated others.  Traveling from place to place is a gigantic pain in the ass.  Even with a chocobo it takes nearly 30 minutes to travel between capital cities.  You will probably have to take significant time out of leveling to do crafting to get money.  The xp penalty for death is harsh, and dying is very common if you're in a bad party, which is also common.  Mobs relentlessly chase you until you zone.  In short, sans the crafting necessity, it embraces all of the worst elements about EQ.

The quest to unlock Summoner (the only job unlocking quest I have taken so far) involves killing leeches for hours with several friends if you are lucky to have help, until the carb ruby drops, then you have to stand in all seven types of weather.  It may sound interesting but what it boils down to is standing in different zones until it changes to a type of weather that you need.  It's the most boring quest I've done in any MORPG.

And the interface is a total abomination.  It's easily the worst I have ever encountered.  Total shit to the extreme.

The things I like about FFXI are that when you get into a decent party, it's fun and a good way to meet people and make new friends.  And leveling can go by fairly quickly.  I also like the job system, being able to try out any class and reverting back without having to make new characters, a la WoW.

So let me get this straight.

You cancel FFXI in March.  You resubscribe in May.  They say "Hey, fuck you for quitting in the first place. You can't come back until you pay us for that month you didn't even play, bitch!"

And you actually bend over and TAKE this ass-raping, that even a seasoned MMO player with a blown-out butthole should have too much backbone to take.

Why?  So you can play some faggoty fucked-up grindfest that reeks of catass with a side of Japanese femboy thrown in for good measure.

(http://members.cox.net/bluegargoyle/images/Jesus-dumbass-Blue_Gargoyle.jpg)

I already blew $30 on the expansion and since I opened the box to install it, I couldn't return it.  So I spent another $12 or whatever it was to renew my account.  It was a dilemma of eating the $30 or spending a bit more to actually be able to use it.  That's a concept that I thought even you would be able to understand.

In all honesty, I almost posted the same thing. Except I was going to offer to club you in the back of the head with a tire iron while I fucked you myself, but only if you paid me $100 first. 

Heh

Sorry Trainwreck, but Bob's a funny guy  :wink:

What you should have done is gone back to the store to scream and yell, in hopes that some peon would violate the return policy just to get you to shut the fuck up.  Assuming that failed, you should have shit in the FFXI box and mailed it to their billing department.  Then you'd only be down $30, instead of $54 and your pride.

Awarding them for their fucked-up policy with another 24 Dollars was maybe the wrong signal to them.

Too bad for you, Square beat you to it.

I can only imagine the mangled bloody mess that was your ass before whatever MORPG it was that sent you over the edge.  You're one sick fuck.

Ahahaahaha.  There is so much funny in this thread.  Kudos Angry.Bob.  I have no room to mock Train Wreck;  I keep subs up with games I do not even play.  I will say that his handle seems appropiate though.

What level is your character?  Wasn't the expansion geared for lv. 50+ characters for the most part?

Treasure of Aht whatever I do believe had new (and supposedly interesting) classes in them. If they were different enough, it changes the core game. As such, one could guess it's tailored toward new and old toons. I like Guild Wars' policy and I'm pissy that I haven't been playing it yesterday (Boston Public is ruling my time, but only 4 episodes left before I'm done with all that have been made thus far). Guild Wars gives new characters AND an entirely new story. They seem to be keeping that up for at least the next expansion also. It impresses me. Too bad the Spiritualist or whatever the other new class is (Not Assassin) is more confusing than hell.

/derail

I was a newb in FFXI... and still am.  I got it because I saw that it had new classes in it that looked interesting.  Blue mages were always among my favorites in the single player FF games.

Yeah, you could say I was a gimp for paying for the month of April to re-sub.  It was only $11 though.  And it was either that or let the $30 expansion I bought go to waste.  WUA's idea is a good one but I tend to only be able to pull off my raging douchebag routine online.  I'm more pissed off about them disabling my account after a mere 2 1/2 weeks when they charged me for a month.  I don't remember reading that anywhere and if it's buried in the agreement somewhere then it seems smarmy and hardly sufficient.

I did find two other fine points of assfuckery in their TOS (that are arguably even worse) but not this particular one.  Any chance of adding assfuckery to the dictionary, by the way?  Or am I just spelling it wrong?  I can't seem to win for losing.  :-D

Apparently, they don't even deserve the effort it takes to lay a steamy one in the box.

Seriously, Trainwreck, you should have felt some rectal poking about the time they asked you to pay for April.

So, we have one of the grindiest games in the history of the genre. This is a game that on a number of nights, I would log off with less precious "xp" than I started with because of one death at the end of a grind session.

This game threatens to delete your characters if you unsub.
This game will require you to buy a full new box if you screw up and uninstall/cancel PlayOnline the wrong way.
This game attempts to charge for unplayed months.
This game threatens to attack former subscriber's credit ratings.

Let me just say: f that noise. I'll play the NGE, Dark and Light, Mourning, WWII Online. and the Phantom console before I pick up another game from this company.

Yep, I did.   I was already fucked either way.  The only question remained, was I going to get fucked over just a little or a lot.  I see it as having lost $11, verses losing $30 for something I couldn't use or return.  The whole thing is assbackwards, and the moral of the story is "If you deal with Square, prepare to get fucked."

Two potential scenarios:

Scenario A:  "So I went out and bought myself the FFXI expansion for thirty bucks.  Then I get it home, install it, and realize that they want me to pay for the month of April before letting me play.  I wasn't even subscribed in April.  But I had already spent thirty dollars, so I meekly bent over and submitted to a reaming.  I hope their lovely game is enough fun to soothe the burning in my asshole."

Scenario B:  "So I went out and bought myself the FFXI expansion for thirty bucks.  Then I get it home, install it, and realize that they want me to pay for the month of April before letting me play.  I wasn't even subscribed in April.  So I said fuck these guys.  My thirty bucks is never coming back either way, but I'll be damned if I'll throw good money after bad just to play this fucknut company's game.  I set my FFXI box and discs on fire, here are pics.  Now help me draft a nasty letter to include with said pics when I mail them to every Square-related address I can find."

B>A

At this point, I'm more likely to hemmerage from the brain.

That doesn't sound right. They bill once a month and they will bill you $12.95 for each month you are subscribed. So if you subscribe the 30th and cancel the 2nd, you will pay 2x12.945. But you don't pay for every single month between your subs. I've cancelled and reupped twice. I did the "come back to Vana'diel" last month and the total charge was the one month for 12.95 (Though that "month" consisted of 5 days of subscribed time.)

I can take the travel times and death penalties, but those linear mandatory group quests will drive me out of any game, the tally now including FFXI, EQ: POP, DAOC: TOA, and AO: Shadowlands. I cancelled in October of 2004 while working on that stupid Kazaam key. And it managed to keep my "return" to less than week.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.  When I resubbed, the month of April was clearly stated, but I checked my bank statement and I was only charged one time, and it was for $11.  (As a result I was able to log in from May 14th until June 2nd, when they deactivated it because I chose not to renew.)  Before going off on a tirade I want to make sure I know what's going on.  I've confirmed some other bullshit they do but I'm still looking into this one.

Also, I don't have a problem with being charged for a whole month when a person cancels after the fifth day, provided they can still log in if they chose to.  What I have a big problem with, and didn't know they did until it was too late, was that the monthly fee only covers the current month.  In your example of re-subbing on the 28th and cancelling on the 3rd, yes, you will be charged 12.95x2, but will actually receive less than 5 weeks of playing time.  The first 12.95 goes to cover the month of June even though it was only for three days.  I wouldn't be surprised if they waited until June 2nd to disable my account to ensure that they can charge me for the whole month of June if I wanted to touch the hot stove again and re-sub in July.

Why the FUCK is the word "hemmerage" in the Spellamabob?

Hemmerage: The anger felt by your burning arsehole after being fucked by an MMOG company.

That's a good question.

And why is Spellamabob missing?

Nails.   :-D

Blah, I should have washed my hands of this clusterfuck yesterday.  Fuck you guys.

At least we supply Vaseline... sometimes...

What the fuck are you talking about?

Aha!  You want the good stuff, do you?

(http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/ky.gif)

You would know

Are you guys sure you paid the full 12.95 monthly fee for the partial month when you first reactivated? The last time I resubscribed (last December) it only cost me 8 dollars because I did it on December 10. They like to charge everyone on the same day but in my experience they definitely do not charge the full fee for your first partial month.

Maybe this has changed though or they've managed to break their billing system.

I was told that they do that for people's 30 day trial, that they prorate it for the time after the 1st of the next month.

Their charge to me was $11.10, I don't know why.  I should have had another 15 days, and a credited charge would have been around $7.

BTW when I was last in game the populations were the same as they were two years ago, which was quite healthy.

It really makes me wonder how well this game could have done if they'd set aside separate western servers that were a little less grindy and done a proper billing system.

That's because players know all their hard work is going to get deleted a couple months after they leave so they might as well just keep playing.

The number of people online at any given time has been relatively constant. Typically about 2,200 per server or somewhere around there.

I've never had a problem with the billing, but then I don't pay much attention to that sort of stuff in general.

WOW. Really? I don't think I've ever seen under 3000 on Fairy, US, Japan, or European primetime.

That's exactly why people maintain their accounts, but would that cause them to actually log in and play as well?

I don't know which is worse, getting characters deleted after three months (UO has maintained characters of mine despite years of inactivity), or being forced to buy a new CD key if you want to resubscribe.  I would expect any of these practices to cause them to have one of the lowest re-subscription rates around.

If they're going to maintain their accounts they might as well get something for their money.  Obviously though there's a lot of people that actually still enjoy the game too.  If you've got a good enough group of people to play with regularly it eases up a lot of the grind, and there's actually a decent game in there so I could see why a decent number of people still play.  Certainly I think it's a much better choice for the hardcore catass than to wait for Vanguard.

So, how is the game ?

I believe they changed the policy about deleting your characters after 3 months. When I resubscribed in December both of my characters were still there and I'd cancelled the previous April.

It does seem to be a little random though. I met quite a few people in game who'd been gone a few months and had their characters deleted. I was amazed. I just can't imagine wanting to go through that early newbie grind again. If I'd found my characters deleted I'd have just uninstalled the game and never thought about it again.

Seconded.

What did you think of the new classes? Did you get to try all three? They almost managed to get me to buy the expansion for the new classes, but your billing horror story is a good incentive not to bother. So please, let me live vicariously through your Vana'diel adventures.

They changed the policy to six months before they delete characters.

I wouldn't know.  Corsairs look cool, they seem to be like Setzer (sp?) from FF6, with a bit of pirate thrown in.  I've only partied with them though.

So you didn't try out Blue Mage like you had originally intended?

Nope, my main job is white mage and after some consideration I decided Summoner would go better because of their very high mp rating.  (When I thought I might like to be a Blue Mage, I was still fairly ignorant about the concept of sub jobs and assumed that because it was a mage, it would go ok with white mage, when actually they are more of a melee bend.)

For those unfamiliar with the game, you can switch between jobs (classes) at will, just like FF5 and Dragon Quests 3, 6, and 7.  This mitigates the limitation of only having one character (alts cost $1 each per month, plus tax).  It would be like World of Warcraft, instead of having a character for each class you want, you just go back to town and change your job.  Anybody can be any of the six basic jobs of Warrior, Monk, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage, and Red Mage whenever they feel like it.  There's also about a dozen advanced jobs that require the completion of quests to unlock individually.  I like the system a lot, personally.  I only played for about three weeks though and didn't get around to unlocking any of the advanced jobs.

The job system really comes into play once you reach level 18.  Then you become eligible for a fairly easy quest to obtain the right to have a sub-job.  Your sub is always half the level of your current main job, but you have access to all of the skills, abilities, and spells for its level, and it grants a stat bonus of about 20%.  The way I understand it, if a Warrior would have had 20 str at a certain level, and you use it as a sub job, then it grants +4 str.

Of course, this means that characters that sub melee classes with mages or vice versa are gimped.  What benefit would +4 str be to a White Mage when they can sub with Black Mage and get  bonuses to stats conducive to casting spells?  It's with this in mind that I decided a Summoner/White Mage would be more useful than a Blue Mage/White Mage.  Summoners have the highest MP of any job, and the bane of a White Mage is running out of mana in the middle of a battle, so they go very well when subbed together.  Not to mention they can summon all the old familiar faces (Shiva, Ramah, etc).

Doesn't really matter though, because my account is currently inactive and I don't know if I want to buy into Sqeenix's exploitive way of doing business.

I haven't played for months, but haven't cancelled my FFXI account for more than a month at a time since I first subscribed.  For more than one reason, though I have to admit that the fact that I don't want my characters deleted is definitely part of it.  But also the factt that they're perhaps the only game I've played that is so bug-free and problem-free that I have never in fact encountered a bug while playing FFXI or had any tecnical probelms whatsoever.  If we're voting with our dollars, my vote is that making a game that works perfectly buys my vote.  I suppose keeping my account on pretty much always is also why I may not have experienced any of this billing weirdness some people report.

I would much rather support a fun MMORPG that has a few bugs over a flawless grind-a-thon.

When they make one of those things that you mention, I will support it too. 

The game or the expansion?  Haven't tried the expansion but I played the game for a while after release.  Long enough to get Monk to lv. 30 in the beta and to get WHM to 32 I think after release.  It's a good game kinda, but after lv. 10 or so you aren't going to get anywhere solo.  Like I've said, it's a fun game if you've got a good group of people to play with regularly.  If you have to do pick up groups though you'll get frustrated because of the xp hit you take when you die.  It can also be a pain to find people to do the missions with since most people have already done them and there's not much to gain by doing them twice.

If they've changed the whole thing about deleting characters, and if I ran into at least 5 other good people with similar schedules who wanted to play I'd consider it, but that's not too likely.  Combat is somewhat interactive with the skill chains, I think the world itself is pretty well done, and to me it had one of the better enconomies (at the time, prices might be crazy now, I don't know).  Low level characters could get crystals from enemies pretty easily, which are basic needs for crafting, so they sold well enough to make some ok cash.  The job system was pretty cool, especially for FF fans (which I used to be.  Not so much lately).  There's a huge difference in the grind between good groups and pick-up groups.  A couple deaths will really set you back, while killing mobs quickly and efficiently gets you an xp bonus the more you kill in a short amount of time.  There was a lot of stuff added after I left too, like that PVP ballista thing or whatever it is.

I do what I can to avoid sending the message to game developers/producers that it's ok to make games that don't always work.  I distinctly recall a comment from...someone on these boards, way back when FFXI first released.  "This game WORKS.  And we should demand that more games WORK."

An odd thought, but has any game that worked on launch really been a total flop?

As far as I can remember, the three major ones that have worked on launch without major issues are DAoC, CoH, and FFXI.  FFXI was the only one that was a huge success, but the other two certainly haven't done badly.

I dunno.. how'd Jumpgate, Earth & Beyond and Motor City: Online do at launch? I never really heard.

Time to pull your fist out of your arse and tell your credit card provider that someone is attempting to charge you for services you weren't subscribed to and didn't agree to instead of sitting back and letting them fuck you due to laziness.

edit - fucking nested quotes.

Frontpaged, lengthened and an additional intro by myself. (http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=166#more) Thanks Train Wreck.

Most game publishers are no different than the fucks trying to pimp out some new diet plan for all the desperate, obese people out there. No different than the companies that have "discovered" the cure for balding. These companies prey on specific weaknesses in people, and know that they can get suckered into a product.

Most gamers are intelligent enough and cynical enough to see through most of the bullshit out there, but for some reason, they don't apply that cynicism enough to their own problems. Somehow they've convinced themselves that the specific industry they're dealing with is genuinely concerned with providing "fun" and "entertainment" to them -- When really, it's no different than anything else.

Every so often I've rarely, rarely entertained the idea of giving FFonline a shot.

Thanks. I'll be avoiding this game and probably most of SquareEnix's releases from here on out.  Bullshit like this is not to be tolerated.

I wonder what affect the 360 has on this? I understand that it's not working with the PlayOnline stuff?

Hell, its apparently doing so badly on the 360 Best Buy was GIVING IT AWAY if you bought some Microsoft published 360 games.

Because its a steaming pile of grindy, unfun, anime furry pedo shit designed by complete idiots with the bonus of god awful business
decisions to fuck you coming and going.

But hey, its got nicely animated anime catgirls, so things like selecting a server your friends are on and not having to group to do anything
past level 12 or so makes up for it right?

 :heart: