f13.net

Took them long enough, eh? So, another torrent site gets hit with the law and people get shocked... AGAIN. I don't get it. The stupidity of the public (anywhere) continues to astound me. Did they think it was OK? Every single person who used that site knows that what they're doing is wrong. And one way or another, these people will probably get screwed under some international law. But I know nothing about that sort of shit, all I know is what I read. Anyway, this story will probably be everywhere, but I want to highlight two very important details:

"This defiant immunity from legal action has long baffled observers, but the site has become the flagship of intense debate both inside and outside of their native Sweden. It has even spawned a credible pro piracy movement, the Piratbyrån, and a political party, Piratpartiet (The Pirate Bureau)."

And from a press release by this "Pirate Party," as translated by its <strike>leader</strike> Captain: "Pirate party criticizes police for unlawful and immoral raid.

Am I living on the fucking moon? Who the fuck? What? How? Are these people retarded?

[Original Article (http://wiredfire.org/index.php?q=node/63)]

They all deserve jail time just for using bittorrent to pirate anything bigger than a 6mb MP3. People who think BT is a good way of sharing movies,TV shows, game ISOs, and anime episodes are fucking retards. USENET, USENET, USENET. It's a bajillion times faster than any BT, plus with a small amount of preparation it's pretty much untraceable.

That aside, as much as people loath piracy, it's the direct cause of the DVD box sets of TV shows that are everywhere in the States now instead of just Europe, as well as reducing the lag between domestic and foreign release dates. It's also the biggest determining factor in what Anime series are picked up for release by companies like ADV.

In general I agree that Piracy is bad, but frankly, so are the 70 year old business models that it's forcing changes in as well as the odious changes to copyright law and the DMCA that the MPAA and RIAA have pushed through.  

Content on demand, in you house, on it's release date is the future. The movie theater is dying, and it needs to. The "theater experience" has been shit for decades, and for $12 a ticket I can wait a couple of months and own it on DVD to watch on my HD widescreen. The industry needs to realize that they can make way more by offering the movies as pay-to-download on the same day it's released in theaters. Obviously that would mean a slow death for the theater industry, but frankly I don't give a shit. Nobody cried when the bulk of my industry got offshored to third world shitholes so they could save .001 cent per transaction, so they can suck it too.

Question though. Do you really think increased TV series boxed sales (at a far faster rate of release following airing), and decrease in time between EU and US release dates can be attributable to the effect of pirating on the industry?

I've yet to see a study of "the effects of piracy" that didn't count every single downloaded song as a lost purchase.

the whole situation has degenerated into a holy war, and the eventual losers will be the pirates and the people taht want content their way.

I'm curious as to how creators and innovators would ever see the profit from their works if there was no such thing as a copyright.

I'm curious as to how creators and innovators would ever see the profit from their works if there was no such thing as a copyright.

They all deserve jail time just for using bittorrent to pirate anything bigger than a 6mb MP3. People who think BT is a good way of sharing movies,TV shows, game ISOs, and anime episodes are fucking retards. USENET, USENET, USENET. It's a bajillion times faster than any BT, plus with a small amount of preparation it's pretty much untraceable.

I'm curious as to how creators and innovators would ever see the profit from their works if there was no such thing as a copyright.

Oh God! USENTET was made for transferring short text messages. It really was, it will even convert your damn multi gigabyte porn files into ASCII.  

It's also super_mega_unsafe, if you know what I mean. You have to pay those companies with your bloody CC and they have record of everything you ever downloaded (unless every USENET server is located in Palestine, which I doubt).

I get all my US TV shows from Bittorrent. Its just convenient to let it run overnight. I don't care about the speed. It has 6 hours to do its work while I sleep.

Know why I can't buy things like Battlestar Galactica? Because iTunes only allows sales of those in the USA. So fuck them if they don't want my money.

As a co-founder & crew member of Piratbyrån (The Piracy Bureau), the Swedish pro-piracy organization that started The Pirate Bay a couple of years ago, I can confirm that several people were taken for questioning but as far as I know they are all released after being DNA-tested (!) and questioned. The servers seized are not only hosting The Pirate Bay, but also our servers at Piratbyrån (we're just a political organisation in favor of free information exchange) and several sites not related to piracy at all (like the humor site http://istheshit.net/, several private websites & irc shells etc), which were located in the same server farm (belonging to the hosting company PRQ).

The absurdity of this raid is sure to cause alot of debate in Sweden, since we pirates have a strong voice and good experience with dealing with the media. Also, there has been alot of discussions and debates on TV and in news papers, so even people not filesharing alot themselves are somewhat familiar with the terms and understand that it's not "evil hackers" or terrorists or something involved in this.

Even the police admits that they don't know if this is legal or not, so my guess is that they're simply doing this to be a nuisance and cause some problems (the bandwith usage in several Swedish cities has already declined compared to an ordinary wednesday), so the worst thing that will happen is that they keep the servers for a long time claiming "investigations", I doubt that anyone will be convicted. One strong reason to doubt this is that the high court in '96 or something stated that it's NOT illegal to supply links to copyrighted material if you're not hosting it yourself.

Another problem with usenet (or as I mentally refer to it, news) is that it's like sticking a cup into a river; Servers don't keep more than maybe 3, 4 days worth of binaries online and then it's gone, unlike popular torrents which can stick around for weeks or even months straight. Generally you check usenet if you don't want anything in particular but want to see what's 'out there', or you check it once a day so you don't miss anything. Often times stuff's missing posts, or half the posts have been purged from your server to make room for more, etc... Add to that the crazy amount of post spam and I've found it's generally more trouble than it's worth.

Certainly there is a point at which copyrighted works should become public domain. But that's a completely different issue than pirated Windows XP distros and the latest sequel to X-men getting tossed around on piratebay.

There are many CDs I own which I would never have bought if I hadn't downloaded portions of them first and found out I liked them

By that reasoning, should the Mona Lisa be public domain or no?

It's the same.

When should Windows XP enter the public domain? 150 years from now when it's decaying in some landfill or sooner? What about Windows 1.3? Or MS-DOS 6.2? Under current law it will be around 2140.

I actually don't think Mickey Mouse should EVER be public domain. Should 60-year-old Disney movies become public domain? Sure. But the character itself? That doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't see how Micky Mouse being public domain improves society or anything like that. I may be getting lost in the whole copyright, patent, trademark differentiation though.

I actually don't think Mickey Mouse should EVER be public domain. Should 60-year-old Disney movies become public domain? Sure. But the character itself? That doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't see how Micky Mouse being public domain improves society or anything like that. I may be getting lost in the whole copyright, patent, trademark differentiation though.

If you think the laws are stupid, be proactive and work to get them changed.

Believe me, motherfucker, I do my part so don't try to lecture me when you know jack and shit. Your other 'point' is a strawman which I won't even bother with.

So really, your arguments are just an excuse to steal?

It's not America's fault Disney had 2 golden ages and can't afford to lose either one to open distribution.

They can keep fucking Mickey Mouse though.

Great cheers of jubilee echoed in the entertainment Halls of Justice yesterday, confident of their victory against the great Satan, ThePirateBay.org. ThePirateBay.org, as many are aware, was perhaps the largest BitTorrent tracker in history. Although it was regarded as little more than a pillar of piracy by the entertainment industry, it provided a simple avenue and interface for artists to release creative commons work to the P2P crowd.   

This world came crumbling down on May 31, 2006. Seemingly immune from copyright infringement prosecution in their native Sweden, police from the National Crime Unit executed raids against the Internet Service Provider Rex|Port 80 and web host PRQ.

After the successful execution of the raids, the entertainment industry’s media machines went into full force. The MPA (Motion Picture Association) claimed Swedish Authorities had “sunk the Pirate Bay.” The IFPI (International Federation and Phonographic Industry) also clamored the raids, stating “This is a very good development for the Swedish music industry and for the real innovators and entrepreneurs who are trying to build a legal online digital business.” Antipiratbyrån, the Swedish anti-piracy bureau, also expressed its satisfaction after a long string of copyright enforcement impotence.

So now that ThePirateBay.org is offline, the celebration can go into high gear, right?

Remember we’re dealing with file-sharing, the ubiquitous hydra that simply cannot die no matter how many press releases you throw at it. If you destroy one file-sharing network, another will take its place. Remove ten BitTorrent indexing sites, 20 more will pick up the slack. ThePirateBay.org is no different, but in holding true to their nature as defiant to the entertainment industry, this BitTorrent tracker and indexer is scheduled to return within two days.

Although all tracking and indexing abilities are currently offline, ThePirateBay.org domain is still functioning. For the last 36 hours, it has been providing various updates on the raids and status of its administration. And true to their nature as being defiant in the face of the entertainment industry, ThePirateBay.org’s days are far from over.

In large, bold text, the following text is scrolled mid-screen:

“SITE DOWN - WILL BE UP AND FULLY FUNCTIONAL WITHIN A DAY OR TWO”

Yesterday, ThePirateBay.org spokesperson “brokep” informed Slyck.com “we are moving it to another country if necessary.” It appears ThePirateBay.org is making good on this promise. Carl Lundström, president of Rix|Port80 told Slyck.com “As I take it, they have bought new servers, installed back-ups and are already up and running tests in at least one foreign server centre.”

It seems once again the entertainment industry is about to shoot itself in the foot, unable to stop the global spread of file-sharing. Considering the speed in which ThePirateBay.org is scheduling its return, (which requires a substantial amount of logistics, organization, leadership, and not to mention equipment), it would appear they were well prepared for this event. The same cannot be said about the entertainment industry.

Apparently the take down has been orchestrated by the MPAA lobbying the US department of foreign affairs to in their turn put pressure on the Swedish department of foreign affairs. This result in those representatives for the Swedish authorities of justice visits the US. Here they are told that there has to be a final solution to the pirate bay problem, they also informs the Swedish delegates how such a solution should be implemented.

Upon returning to Sweden the Swedish minister of justice, Thomas Bodström, is informed about the situation and in short he acts in a way that is way outside his sphere of legal influence, ignoring the separation of powers and affectively, through his secretary of the state, ORDERS the police and attorneys office to take action against The Piratebay even though both the police and the attorneys office had already told him that they lacked the legal grounds to launch such an investigation.

My spelling stands corrected, but I think you forget that tax shelter islands make their money by providing the security disreputable people or those seeking tax havens need to hide from their countries. If they give in to the MPAA, they undermine their reputation for security, and the rest of the world has a HECK of a lot more money invested in the Cayman islands than even the mighty MPAA can compensate for.

You cannot convince me

Good form of debate. We're done.

Taking your marbles and going home so soon? If you could provide some form of evidence that these countries have, in the past, allowed foreign countries to pressure them into assest sieizures, then hey, I'm willing to say I'm wrong. Normally you argue to the hilt, Righ. Bit surprised at this little pout.

Taking your marbles and going home so soon? If you could provide some form of evidence that these countries have, in the past, allowed foreign countries to pressure them into assest seizures, then hey, I'm willing to say I'm wrong. Normally you argue to the hilt, Righ. Bit surprised at this little pout.

Sited in Russia = RIAA/MPAA be fucked.
See: Allofmp3 (which is another windmill that the RIAA are tilting at).

First you tell me that you cannot be convinced, so I cease arguing. Now you come back and say that you could be convinced and insult me, insinuating that I'm being childish and petulant. Pretty poor form.

As I've said, the Cayman Islands has an MLAT with the US and this was signed into effect in 1990. In 2001 an agreement on exchange of tax information between the US and UK was signed, holding the Cayman Islands party (as a Crown Colony of the UK) so the its not even a good place to hide from US taxation these days. The highest court in the Cayman Islands is subordinate to London. It doesn't make billions out of dodgy crooks pillaging hard working Americans, it's a place that 'legitimate businesses' can operate cartels and exchange wealth without inconvenient anti-monopoly consumer protection getting in the way. As such, the UK and US governments have major interests in maintaining the supremacy of Cayman as a world banking and cartel trade center. As a part of the UK, its a signatory to Interpol. They've been running police operations with the US for years - there's far too much funny money passing hands there between upright businesses for them to piss around with a few hundred million in dirty money at a 'state' level. Plus the consequences for the rest of the UK are not worth thinking about were such crime to be sanctioned.

So, lets assume you didn't pick the right place with the Cayman Islands, and that you next choice wouldn't be the Isles of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Sark, the British Virgin Islands or Gibraltar. Perhaps you could pick something Spanish, French, Dutch or Italian. They have offshore tax havens under their flag too. But I doubt its any easier to hide international crime (especially hot-button IP crime) under a flag of state there either. Belize? Perhaps... though they recently signed a bunch of inter-police agreements with the US too. Pretty much the only places that haven't are what are termed "rogue states".

No nation recognises or has recognised the sovreignty of the fort, so putting dodgy stuff there wouldn't be wise.

And thus the catch-22 of data/tax havens and such.  If it truly is outside the legality of any powerful sovereign nation then there is NO real protection from some pissed off power just coming in and sacking the place.  If it is under some nations cognizance (such as the Caymans) then really you are living at the whim of the political breeze of the parent nation.

Maybe you could stick a stealthy satellite in space and quietly change it's orbit every now and then.  That would be security through obscurity though and not a real positon of strength.

The sad fact of the matter is that the US doesn't build shit anymore.  Aside from our agriculture and weapon industries and some raw materials, I can't think of any significant exports of physical goods that come from the US.  Everything is media of some sort.  Movies, music, software.  No wonder our government is so readily willing to play the thug's role on behalf of media corporations, our economy would implode (even more than it already has) if everybody quit buying the crap Hollywood puts out.

Are you serious?  We are a hegemony.  Look it up.

Your image in around the world has tarnished because your foreign policy sucks and you alienate everybody. The UdSSR has not much to do with it. "Fuck the UN", "Fuck Kyoto", and "Lets kill little brown people for imagined slights" has more to do with it.

The UdSSR

Undead Soviet Socialist Republics?

You people are batshit insane.  Most of the popular TV, music, and movies around the world come from the US.  Software, video games, technology as well.  US wields economic might and military might; no country dumps money into their military like the US does.  Does it make it right for the US to wield this power without concern for others?  Of course not.  But the facts remain it is the big kid in town and will be for a loooong time.



edit.  I have a nasty hangover and am in mucho pain.  Feel my misery

-copyright holder shoudn't be allowed to directly distribute his goods.

No.

Perhaps not so long if you're to believe how fast China is growing.

I don't know about China definitely growing up and eating our lunch. Their government controls their society by heavily controlling the flow of information and maintaining a "command presence" over their people, which goes directly against participating in a global economy. When their standard of living goes up their pay and all the related costs of business will go up...which will make their goods less desirable since they won't be so amazingly cheap in comparison anymore.

Unless the government becomes much more forward thinking, more socialist, and more capitalist, a violent conflict with the people is pretty much inevitable. And if a coup happens, there's gonna be a lot of businesses losing some very big cash.

As a means of seperation of powers what's the problem with that?
Sure, I wouldent vote for it, but it deserves more than a "no" as a responce

As a means of seperation of powers what's the problem with that?
Sure, I wouldent vote for it, but it deserves more than a "no" as a responce

I found the story about XM satellite radio getting sued to be far more compelling.  Although that may be old news to everyone else.

Like the fast tracked Section 115 Reform Act (aka SIRA) (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004721.php) which will require you get a license for copies of music cached in memory among other things.

I assumed JoeTF was thinking of the publisher/distributor as copyright holder, seeing as they do the copying and whatnot.  I could be giving too much credit, but I read it as an oversight.

Not to me, got a link?

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004679.php

Exacly. The copyholder cannot sell is a neccesary evil for entire thing to work. Otherwise forcing authors to sell their copyrigths to the publishers would become a golden standard in the market. you could put some limits, or allow personal sales or something else, but those are details.

Not even in the same room as the figurative rocker.

The problem is that the EFF represents vested interests too. So, while this bill may well be good for some, and ultimately a distinct improvement for music consumers, its clearly not good for the RIAA, nd not good for whomever the EFF feels are its clients at this point in history.

Then it's a very, very stupid concept. You are essentially saying that a creator either has to sell their copyright directly to a distributor, or do the whole distribution thing themselves. Either that or you are not explaining it well at all.

He isn't explaining it well as far as I can tell. I think he means he'd like to restrict copyright creators from transfering their copyright to a third party (such as a corporation). AKA no more 'work for hire'.

Now, see that's something I could get behind.

That would suck.  There are a number of people who are very creative, and very shitty at business.  It would give both them, and their company, the shaft. 

Being herded into an abattoir and having a steel pin fired through their brains would be kinder than the treatment that a HUGE number of artists have faced from shitty contracts with the businessmen you are championing.