f13.net

I'm not going to beat around the bush.  I thought this movie was awesome.  It was non stop awesome and I saw it twice.  Everything  a Hollywood action movie should be.

Great. Scientology AND in the wrong forum.

Never seen the first one. Definitely won't see the second (because John Woo is shite). Little hope of me seeing the third.

Whut?

John Woo is shite. Or shit.

Either/or.

[edit] OK, so the guy is one of the better action choreographers around. I'll give him that. But a good director or writer that doesn't make.

I have to agree. MI2 sucked the toilet paper dingleberries from my ass crack.

However, I also agree that MI3 was great! I actually didnt see the ending coming from a mile away.

Errrr. A Better Tomorrow 1, 2, & 3? Killer? Hard-Boiled? No likey?

Like I said, I do for the action to an extent. But the rest of what Woo does is more melodramatic than a Mexican soap opera. It's very hard to sit through for me.

His American films are another story though.. They're not melodramatic at all. Just corny....And stupid (sorry, can't think of a better word other than "stupid" for Face Off)

Won't go see MI3 because of Cruise.  I realize half of Hollywood is nuts, but I don't want to have that at the forefront of my mind when watching a movie.  Haven't seen War of the Worlds either.  Have every intention of not seeing either.

Why?  Because he's goofy or a scientologist?  I know that I can't even look at him anymore without seeing him hop around Oprah like some mindless monkey.  That's what did it for me.  If he were a good enough actor, he could probably make me forget that while I watch him act.  I guess he's not. 

I try to avoid Cruise too, but when I do happen to see a movie of his, I end up liking it (if only slightly). Which sucks.

I like John Woo, but he really phoned in MI2.

I absolutely KNOW I saw MI2 and I can't remember a bit of it!  Hopefully, the movie was just forgettable and I'm not getting Alzheimer's really early.

Because he's a jarringly goofy scientologist.  I want to suspend belief when I go to a movie, and he breaks that for me.  I don't want to sit in the theatre (or at home, whatever) and while watching a character keep thinking about their RL selves.  It isn't just that he's a scientologist; I think it's medically dangerous and otherwise patently absurd, but half of Hollywood is signed up and I don't care about it much.  It's not just that he's goofy, since the other half of Hollywood is goofy, but they are at least forgettable.  It's that he is using his fame for something that can be highly dangerous for people (esp. his platform of choice, post partem).  I keep thinking he's like a Hollywood Hitler, except he is convincing people to walk into the chambers of their own will.  Makes it difficult to focus on the entertainment part.

Oh, that's right!  Isn't he the one who told people not to seek psychiatric help or take their meds?  They should just tough it out.  One of those Law and Order or CSI shows just did an episode based on that, except they used a rock star instead of a film star. 

Here's to hoping his stalkers stop taking their meds, too!

I couldn't watch any more Hollywood movies if I boykotted every Scientologist. But Tom Cruise is special, he earns it. The fucker!

I'm partly with him on some of the medication stuff though, sans the Scientology. Some of the drugs people are gobbling up out there is poison. No better than, and sometimes worse, than drugs that are declared illegal (i.e. drugs that can't be federally controlled). He's right about our culture being too dependent on drugs. It doesn't take a Scientologist to realize that. This country has gone insane with drug dependency.

It's one thing if an adult wants to be stupid though, but making kids take all of that crap is just obscene.

The real health problem is that people don't do shit and eat nothing but shit. If they stopped doing that, then they'd be less anxious, depressed, restless, stressed out, etc., etc..


.....

Oh yeah, MI:3

/rantoff

Tom Cruise is one of those "Never" guys, denying even clinical cases that have chemical imbalances that need to be treated with medicaments their medicine.

You are against abuse, which I am as well. Tom Cruise isn't, he just wants to replace everything else (psychologists, psychiatrists and psychopharmacas) with the good old Audition process of Mother Scientology (=Brainwashing sessions).

The only part of Woo's MI:2 I remember is some seen with a dove fluttering around in shafts of light.  I think I got physically ill.

I haven't seen MI:3 yet because of the Cruise factor as well, it would make me feel a little dirty.  Although I did like Collateral.

I remember Cruise and the badguy driving towards each other on motorcycles, and then they both jump off and slam into each other in the air.  It wasn't actiony or cool, it was just weird and seemed like a bad idea.

Yeah, MI2 was like my worst nightmare- it starred Cruise and was directed by Woo. I haven't seen anything that either one has done since, and I doubt I will.

Paycheck (the one with Affleck and Uma) wasn't bad, though it had some typical Wooisms in it, like those goddamn doves. I just think many American producers have seen the Killer and maybe Hard-Boiled and force him to do the same shit over and over.

But then, MI2 was really shitty.

I was so disappointed in MI1 that I never saw MI2.  [Jim Phelps would never never never have done that!]

Maybe I'll go see MI3, as long as I'm assured it won't shatter any of my preconceived notions.  I hate it when that happens.

Just a friendly reminder:  this is about the exceedingly fun to watch MI3, not MI2.  Also, I understand the hatred for Tom Cruise and a refusal to see his movies because of it.  Yet, I pity you, because it means you'll be missing out on some sweet ass movies (like MI3).  See it in the theatre before it's too late.

I thought MI3 was "meh" even though I usually like JJ Abrams' TV stuff.

I guess there's no accounting for poor taste.  But all seriousness aside, Tom Cruise is right behind PSH and Johnny Depp.  It's hard to think of too many people with large bodies of work that make consistently entertaining movies.

You are insane. Comparing Cruise to Phillip Seymour Hoffman and Johnny Depp? Both the latter actors have more talent in one sweat molecule than Nostril-Flaretron could ever hope to achieve with 15,000 Cleansings and a host of Body Thetans.

I have to agree with Haemish here.  I'm not a big artsy fartsy film enthusiast like some here so maybe I'm missing something.  I have always found Tom Cruise's acting to be pretty mundane.  I'm not saying I haven't enjoyed some of his films but many of them I enjoyed in spite of him, not because of him. 

I'm not comparing Tom Cruise to anyone, so you can put down the box full of homeless guy poop now.  But I do enjoy his movies just as much as PSH's and Depp's.

It was the one with that horrible fight sceen at the end, where every time Cruise or the badguy would throw a punch, right as the blow would land, it would switch to a shot of a wave breaking along the beach. HORRIBLE!

I don't remember that bit but I do remember the motorcycle thingy.  I like action movies but I'm pretty sure I didn't like that one... or, at least, it didn't make much of an impression. 

I prefer comparing Tom Cruise to Keanu Reeves.  In almost all cases I would enjoy their films more were someone else cast in their place.

Heh. It's comforting that no one jumped to Keanu's defense like what happened with Depp and PSH.

He's a hell of a lot more tolerable than Tom Cruise is though.

Which raises the question:

Would the Matrix be more enjoyable with Cruise?
Or would War of the Worlds be better with Keanu?

It's kinda like the "What happens when the unstoppable force collides with the immovable object" question.

If Will Smith and Reeves are the only two choices for Neo (yep, the Wachowski's wanted Will Smith first), then I'm glad Keanu got that role. In fact, he was pretty much perfect for it. Nobody does a better "Whoa..."

You're crazy if you think Keanu is better than Tom Cruise.  I know it's popular to hate Cruise but get a grip on yourself.  Christ.

Heh....Maybe you're right. Let me list some of their better films (but only the ones that depended on them..Not the ones that were OK in spite of them).


Cruise
---------
Collateral
Vanilla Sky
Magnolia
Jerry McGuire
Interview with a Vampire
Rain Man
Risky Business
Born on the 4th of July


Reeves
-----------
Holy shit I'm at a loss....


The River's Edge maybe?

Thanks, you've redeemed yourself.

To be fair though, it's become apparent that Tom Cruise's best type of roles/performances, where he's real maniacal and pissed off (i.e. the mask scene with the doctors in Vanilla Sky, Magnolia in general, etc..), is just him being himself. There was a time when we thought he was just acting.

Tom Cruise is a guy that pretends to be other people for a living.  The guy has no credibility beyond the fact that he's an entertainer.  No matter how stupid the shit he says is off-screen, he's a good actor.  Boycotting his movies seems silly if you put the crap he spews in context.

I don't boycott his movies, just in case anyone thought that (I think that was Roac). I just don't go out of my way to see them. I do like some of them when I happen to catch them, but those happen to be the ones where he's a maniacal douchebag (which, in the end, isn't really him acting at all, I think. Maybe I like the real Tom Cruise! Go figure).

In the end though, my dislike for Tom Cruise has little to do with Tom Cruise. I wouldn't give a shit about Top Gun, Mission Impossible, Minority Report, or Days of Thunder (i.e. the kind of films Cruise is usually known for) if they had Marlon Brando in them. It's just not my thing. It never was.

The only movies he's been in that might compel me to agree with you are the ones where he plays a douchebag.  Most notably Collateral, which is the only movie of his I've seen in which his performance was the high point of the movie.  And as Stray said, it's debatable whether him playing a douchebag counts as acting.   :evil:

Point well made.

A better actor? They both suck about equally, though Reeves excels at roles when they're the right ones. Parenthood, River's Edge, Bill & Ted, etc. Though those characters are superficially similar, there are a ton of subtle differences that do actually require a some acting talent.

Cruise just sucks pole period. He's played the same fucking guy his entire career. The only difference in his characters is what they do for a living. Other than that they're completely and utterly interchangeable. If you ignore the name of his character Jerry McGuire is the same as Top Gun is the same as Days of Thunder is the same as Risky Business is the same as War of the Worlds.

But the big difference is in their actual selves. Tom Cruise is a completely phony tool. By all appearances and accounts, he's devoid of having an actual person in him.  Keanu Reeves on the other hand seems to realize he's a guy who got lucky as hell pretending to be other people on film and keeps his mouth shut. Other than using his celebrity to get gigs for the band he's in with his brother, I've never seen him have an agenda.

I think he's a good fucking actor, and I think people are letting the fact that he's a crazy asshole who is a good and comfortable target get in the way of their best judgement.  Of course, some people will never like carrots.  So there's that to consider.

Hilarious.  You're trying tell me about the subtle variations of Reeve's acting in Parenthood and Bill and Ted?  You sound like a Matrix fanboy.  Because that's crazier than the time you posted your get rich quick scheme about penny stocks.  Cruise is a legitimate actor, he's not a character actor like PSH or Depp.  Not every actor is or has to be to be qualified as good.

There are subtle differences in the two characters.

Cruise is a complete tool who's a shitty actor and a shitty human being.

Reeves is an okay guy by all accounts who's a less shitty actor and a decent human being.

You're a tool who's a shitty, ham-fisted message board troll. You thought a Mission Impossible movie was "non stop awesome". That says more about your judgement than anything else you've written here.

It's really pretty simple.

You're the kind of guy who bases who he's gonna vote for President off whether or not you'd like to sit down and have a beer with him.  Subtle variations my ass.

Info I have gleaned from this thread:

Angry Bob is almost always angry.

Dusematic really does seem to love the cock!

I like you both more than either Tom Cruise or Keanu Reeves.  (I did love the underwear dance from Risky Business, however, and all of Keanu in Bill & Ted)

I enjoy that you think about me enough to fabricate an entire personality and thought process for me out of apparently thin air. Especially considering the person most likely to  vote for who they'd want to have a beer with would be the guy who likes Tom Cruise and Mission Impossible movies. Still, enjoy lusting after whatever virtual fantasy of me you have board n00bler, it doesn't bother me a bit. If it makes any easier for you while you grind one out to me, I enjoy latex gas masks and my pin is the size shape of a Baby's arm. Enjoy.

Den time yet?

You should have just said, "I know you are but what am I?"

See?  Nothing good comes from either of them.  You're arguing over Cruise and Reeves for gods' sake.

Isnt it hilarious?  :-D

Nigga please.  Like arguing over video games is so much more profound.  Tom Cruise is a good actor, and I stand by that statement unashamedly. 

I hate white people.

Could you imagine the original Matrix with Cruise? *shudder*

I can't imagine it with Will Smith either.  Neo does not need to get jiggy wit it.

I think given Smith's performance in "I Robot" he would have made a viable choice for Neo.

I don't.  But I think Depp would have been sweet.

I dont know what it is. Ive just never really liked Depp. I admit he is a competent actor....but he just bugs me.

Wait I have it! James Earl Jones as Neo! Just imagine him going "Whoa" in that deep voice of his! LMAO!  :-D

Except James Earl Jones is like 70-something.

James Earl Jones would have made a great Morpheus in his younger days at least.

Very true!

Hey what can I say? Large older blackmen with deep voices!
Rowr!  :wink:

People tell us in Capitalism we should vote with our money. So when I say: "Fuck Tom Cruise, that douchebag should never get any money from anyone else regardless of how his work is. I don't want to be one of those responsible for putting food on his table. Maybe I am lucky and he starves." I don't at all care how good an actor he might be (and he isn't, but who cares).

There are enough other moves to waste time with. Its not like my live is empty and shallow just because I never got the quasi religious experience of seeing MIx. Get over yourself, dusematic. He is not the only carrot I can munch on out there!

The funny thing here, is that I agree that all of those Cruise movies are "good", I've never watched any of them more than once. I've probably watched the Matrix about 6 times. Cruise was very good in Collateral and Magnolia, but neither movie is in my DVD collection.

MI2 was the poster boy for big bang action movie that I would never bother watching a second time. MI3 was considerably better. It was a spy movie, as it should have been. Not spectacular, but a good solid movie.

The Matrix films would have been a billion times better without the Wachko brothers. Reeves didn't hurt the movies, because really, the part of Neo is about the most bland, reactive character ever written.

And Tom Cruise is a shitty actor, and an even shittier person. He doesn't act. He flares his nostrils. He has NEVER acted. Collateral was the best role he's ever played, because there was so little of a human being in the role that he didn't have to stretch anywhere.

EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention that Tom Cruise is where he is because either: 1) he has the greatest agent in the world, who can convince studio execs that he really didn't suck as bad as they thought in that last movie of his, and gets him really great roles that could be box-office gold with a tree stump in the lead or 2) he has dirt on all the rich studio execs because he did their cleansings.

He should eat a fat bag of die.