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Title: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Gutboy Barrelhouse on May 03, 2006, 12:13:33 PM So you have a high profile MMO going live this year, you are less than 10 days before E3 and it's time to release 3 new screenshots (they release 3 screenshots a month). So what to show off in your exciting game........... TREES!
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/screenshots.php Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: WindupAtheist on May 03, 2006, 12:21:08 PM I heard that when the game goes live, you'll have to stare at shrubs for six months before you earn the right to see trees. It gives players a sense of accomplishment.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Soln on May 03, 2006, 12:25:04 PM very nice
problem is, how many people are going to turn up the foliage FPS to render them amidst all the other stuff? Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Morat20 on May 03, 2006, 01:06:09 PM I heard that when the game goes live, you'll have to stare at shrubs for six months before you earn the right to see trees. It gives players a sense of accomplishment. You only get shrubs after you grind up from seeds. You're given a newb seed, and you have to plant it, water, it, and grow a single blade of grass. Then, through a complex and challenging minigame, you then force that blade of grass to asexually reproduce -- after many hours of effort, you might have a small patch of lawn. By growing each leaf -- rather than staring at a generic "ground pattern", it immerses the player in the game. It is estimated you will have grown the foliage and personally constructed the newbie area within several weeks of purchasing the game -- if you're willing to devote a reasonable amount of time (8 to 10 hours a day) to it, allowing hardcore players to start the game within days of purchase, whereas more casual players will be able to create their character no more than six months after purchase. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: dusematic on May 03, 2006, 01:16:03 PM If this game comes out this year, it will be sloppy.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: eldaec on May 03, 2006, 01:30:50 PM You only get shrubs after you grind up from seeds. You're given a newb seed, and you have to plant it, water, it, and grow a single blade of grass. Then, through a complex and challenging minigame, you then force that blade of grass to asexually reproduce -- after many hours of effort, you might have a small patch of lawn. Someone already made that game. And it was better than Vanguard shows any sign of being. (http://game2.atitd.com/main.html) Quote from: dusematic If this game comes out this year, it will be sloppy. Do I *really* need to fix that sentence for you? Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: HaemishM on May 03, 2006, 03:02:53 PM Where is this forest you speak of?
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Toast on May 03, 2006, 03:14:47 PM In defense of the new screenshots, at least they weren't dominated by brown color palette.
Less trees and more good content, please. If you are going to Oblivion people's computers, then the game better be pretty damn good. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Margalis on May 03, 2006, 03:45:52 PM No characters and no UI. This game doesn't seem even remotely close to done.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Merusk on May 03, 2006, 03:52:10 PM In defense of the new screenshots, at least they weren't dominated by brown color palette. This is the exact reason for the trees screenshot. I was reading some FOH forum thread the other day, via a link from another site, and there were pages and pages and pages of people ripping on the game for being brown, dull and uninspired in terms of dungeon design. (None of which I'll disagree with.) If I recall, McQuaid even posted in the thread that there were other areas, they just hadden't released shots of them. That these shots came out and are all about the trees tells me it's a response to that thread. Edit: The FOH Thread in question (http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/19025-3-new-vanguard-screenshots.html) Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Soukyan on May 03, 2006, 03:52:16 PM In defense of the new screenshots, at least they weren't dominated by brown color palette. Less trees and more good content, please. If you are going to Oblivion people's computers, then the game better be pretty damn good. That's what I got out of those three screenshots. With the success of Oblivion and their concentration on selling up the foliage and the forests and the fact that they are dynamically generated, I suppose Vanguard wanted to grab that momentum and run with it a bit. The problems? Vanguards forests are not dynamically generated, they won't look as beautiful nor run as well, and lastly, those three screenshots are from an area that is level 60+ so it'll be months or more before you can catch an in-game glimpse of that gorgeous leafy action (this last statement was pure conjecture, but Nostradamus would be proud and so will you when it proves true). Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Margalis on May 04, 2006, 12:04:32 AM Vanguard and LOTR look to be having an interesting race for which can be worst and ship with the lowest completion level. Technology issues aside WoW was pretty well-baked when it was released, there have been some talent tweaks but not a lot of fundamental changes.
So of course LOTRO and Vanguard will be pushed out in horribly unfinished forms, proving once again that learning is incredibly difficult. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: stray on May 04, 2006, 12:07:55 AM People will buy them anyways.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Mesozoic on May 04, 2006, 03:16:30 AM Yes, but not in the numbers expected. And the suits will blame Blizzard.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Broughden on May 04, 2006, 05:02:50 AM Vanguard and LOTR look to be having an interesting race for which can be worst and ship with the lowest completion level. Technology issues aside WoW was pretty well-baked when it was released, there have been some talent tweaks but not a lot of fundamental changes. So of course LOTRO and Vanguard will be pushed out in horribly unfinished forms, proving once again that learning is incredibly difficult. Thats why my sights are set on Conan and hoping to Crom they make something of that game. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Glazius on May 04, 2006, 06:18:34 AM Can you climb up that tree and use it as a platform to jump over a wall?
'cause that's my MMO standard for trees, ever since I figured out how to work it in CoH. --GF Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Xilren's Twin on May 04, 2006, 07:27:18 AM Can you climb up that tree and use it as a platform to jump over a wall? 'cause that's my MMO standard for trees, ever since I figured out how to work it in CoH. --GF It has been decided at the corporate level you don't deserve the 3rd dimension. Xilren Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: dusematic on May 04, 2006, 12:51:26 PM I wonder when this game started to fall off. Back when I followed the game, Brad kept talking about how the huge media blitz was supposed to start llast month. It never happened. There's still so much shit they haven't even come close to nailing down, like exactly how many races there will be. Although, I don't know what the fuss is about the graphics, I think they're pretty sweet. Still not as sweet as Conan graphics though.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: El Gallo on May 04, 2006, 12:56:51 PM My impression from the pace of info and the various beta leaks I've heard is that the game is not as far along as they'd hoped and a lot of the mechanics were deemed un-fun and are bring redone. It may be a while before we see a media blitz because it may be a very long while before we see the game.
/end speculation Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Merusk on May 04, 2006, 01:14:46 PM Debuffing a tree so you can harvest it then sitting on your ass while waiting on cooldowns wasn't fun!? Shock and awe! Surely it was just the crafting system, then. After all, the VS boys still insist sitting on your ass waiting for your shot on the rare drop of the the rarespawn was the best game mechanic ever!
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: El Gallo on May 04, 2006, 01:19:32 PM That Potus thread was loltastic. I've always loved that guy.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Lt.Dan on May 04, 2006, 05:26:04 PM I don't get it, Vanguard are pfaffing around posting pictures of trees while Mythic have a couple of pretty cool trailers for WAR, some cool concept art, a nice website with dev video cams. All that and WAR isn't due for release till 2007. Vanguard just seems so ... amateur.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: schild on May 04, 2006, 05:34:38 PM Brad McQuaid has Everquest 1 and 3 expansions to his name. Some would argue that he still is amateur.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Strazos on May 04, 2006, 09:02:05 PM I don't understand the allure or point to the FoH forums. WTF
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: El Gallo on May 05, 2006, 07:31:10 AM I don't understand the allure or point to the FoH forums. WTF It's almost exactly like this place except people there worship some sort of idealized version of what EQ should have been in their minds rather than some sort of idealized version of what UO should have been in their minds. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Yegolev on May 05, 2006, 08:10:46 AM It's almost exactly like this place except people there worship some sort of idealized version of what EQ should have been in their minds rather than some sort of idealized version of what UO should have been in their minds. There's an "About F13.net" nugget in there. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Venkman on May 05, 2006, 08:39:48 AM That's why I find it so funny that some devs spend so much time there. It'd be like inviting your most dedicated fans, the ones who're willing to pay over double the monthly fee, to be your first testers on a sequel you're specifically looking to target casual players with. Oh, wait (http://everquest2.station.sony.com)...
Of course, if your goal is to make a game that'll only be discussed by an almost statistically-unmeasurable sub-culture of super hardcore players, that's a place to start. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Signe on May 05, 2006, 08:42:48 AM This game has devs? Cool.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Morat20 on May 05, 2006, 08:50:47 AM That's why I find it so funny that some devs spend so much time there. It'd be like inviting your most dedicated fans, the ones who're willing to pay over double the monthly fee, to be your first testers on a sequel you're specifically looking to target casual players with. Oh, wait (http://everquest2.station.sony.com)... Of course, if your goal is to make a game that'll only be discussed by an almost statistically-unmeasurable sub-culture of super hardcore players, that's a place to start. I have to agree. If I was developing a mass market MMORPG, I'd find out what the FOH people wanted and do the exact opposite. There are some nuggets of good ideas, but for the most part the FOH crowd are the sorts of players game developers need to learn to ignore more. Catering to them means delivering an utterly frustrating grindfest to everyone else. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: El Gallo on May 05, 2006, 10:30:13 AM Eh, Devs post here, which is much smaller and comprised of people whose opinions about any MMO can be summed up by any number of Linkin Park songs. More importantly, WoW's first inroads into the consciousness of many EQ1 players was via the most popular EQ1 rantsite at the time, which was FoH. That turned out pretty well. Lots of people way, way, way more casual than FoH members read and post there, and there are a shitload of anti-timesinkers there (hell, Furor used to bitch about timesinks all the time). The forums there are about as closely associated with the FoH guild as this place is with Bat Country.
There's also the "what other forum would Devs spend time at" question. There's no forum to go to where you can interact with casual players, because casual players don't usually visit, much less post on, forums. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Toast on May 05, 2006, 10:59:52 AM FOH forums are dominated by the culture of E-Peen. Being "uber" is still important over there. Given that achieving "uber" is simply a function of time spent grinding and raiding, the culture is all about grinding and timesinks.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Malathor on May 05, 2006, 11:48:13 AM That's why I find it so funny that some devs spend so much time there. It'd be like inviting your most dedicated fans, the ones who're willing to pay over double the monthly fee, to be your first testers on a sequel you're specifically looking to target casual players with. Oh, wait (http://everquest2.station.sony.com)... Of course, if your goal is to make a game that'll only be discussed by an almost statistically-unmeasurable sub-culture of super hardcore players, that's a place to start. I have to agree. If I was developing a mass market MMORPG, I'd find out what the FOH people wanted and do the exact opposite. There are some nuggets of good ideas, but for the most part the FOH crowd are the sorts of players game developers need to learn to ignore more. Catering to them means delivering an utterly frustrating grindfest to everyone else. Why would you think that? Look at how WoW shamelessly pandered to the FoH crowd. During WoW's beta they managed to turn the FoH site into a full blown WoW fansite, hired Furor and Tigole as devs, actually got Furor to sign his name to goddamn WoW fanfic (http://www.fohguild.org/archive.php?page=6), and had Tigole posting promises to turn the top end of its game into a 40 man raid fest that would be like EQ's but better. It didn't exactly scare off casual players, did it? You see, there is a difference between timesinks and raiding, and very very few people, even the hardcore raiding crowd, really want timesinks at all. WoW, at least to some extent, understands this. If you can play WoW for 3-4 hours 3 or 4 nights a week, you can fully participate in WoW's raiding, and be as "uber" as anyone in the game. Brad, however, seems to equate the two, and this is precisely Vanguard's problem. Ironically it's the word of mouth leaking from the FoH crowd in Vanguard's beta that has been killing its buzz. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Morat20 on May 05, 2006, 12:12:10 PM That's why I find it so funny that some devs spend so much time there. It'd be like inviting your most dedicated fans, the ones who're willing to pay over double the monthly fee, to be your first testers on a sequel you're specifically looking to target casual players with. Oh, wait (http://everquest2.station.sony.com)... Of course, if your goal is to make a game that'll only be discussed by an almost statistically-unmeasurable sub-culture of super hardcore players, that's a place to start. I have to agree. If I was developing a mass market MMORPG, I'd find out what the FOH people wanted and do the exact opposite. There are some nuggets of good ideas, but for the most part the FOH crowd are the sorts of players game developers need to learn to ignore more. Catering to them means delivering an utterly frustrating grindfest to everyone else. Why would you think that? Look at how WoW shamelessly pandered to the FoH crowd. During WoW's beta they managed to turn the FoH site into a full blown WoW fansite, hired Furor and Tigole as devs, actually got Furor to sign his name to goddamn WoW fanfic (http://www.fohguild.org/archive.php?page=6), and had Tigole posting promises to turn the top end of its game into a 40 man raid fest that would be like EQ's but better. It didn't exactly scare off casual players, did it? You see, there is a difference between timesinks and raiding, and very very few people, even the hardcore raiding crowd, really want timesinks at all. WoW, at least to some extent, understands this. If you can play WoW for 3-4 hours 3 or 4 nights a week, you can fully participate in WoW's raiding, and be as "uber" as anyone in the game. Brad, however, seems to equate the two, and this is precisely Vanguard's problem. Ironically it's the word of mouth leaking from the FoH crowd in Vanguard's beta that has been killing its buzz. But they didn't give the FOH exactly what they wanted -- they have raids ranging from casual to hardcore, and my read of FOH is they're a lot more about hardcore raiding. They don't want grindfests either, but WoW's raiding model is pretty casual -- there's a steady progression that encourages casuals to play and doesn't require one to block off 20 hours of time to get through it. It's not that the FOH wants grindfests and timesinks, but that they're the sort of people who blow through ANY cotent in 1/3 the time of the average gamer and then bitch fucking endlessly about the lack of "endgame content". If you cater to them, you end up with a game that's 99% endgame shit for the uber-catasses who then bitch they've done all THAT so you spend all your time catering to the back end and ignoring the new players. Blizzard jampacked WoW with content, content, and more content. If they can concentrate on raids now it's because they've given the 1 to 60s so much shit to do that they can fucking coast on early game. Which is how it SHOULD be -- but most companies don't offer enough content prior to the "endgame" because the catasses constantly (and vocally) bitch about the endgame. The way I view it is if someone blows through your content 3 or 4 times faster than the average player, odds are he's not sticking around anyways when the new shiny comes. Don't balance the game for him. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: bhodi on May 05, 2006, 12:42:30 PM Sorry, but at last count (http://www.warcraftrealms.com/quickstats.php) about half the players on any given server are level 60.That means that you need level 60+ content (raiding and otherwise) not just for the catasses who finish stuff in 1/3 time, but so that you don't start losing too many people due to bordom. They're concentrating on raids becuase that is where their population is, not becuase they're catering to the catass.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Morat20 on May 05, 2006, 12:47:22 PM Sorry, but at last count (http://www.warcraftrealms.com/quickstats.php) about half the players on any given server are level 60.That means that you need level 60+ content (raiding and otherwise) not just for the catasses who finish stuff in 1/3 time, but so that you don't start losing too many people due to bordom. They're concentrating on raids becuase that is where their population is, not becuase they're catering to the catass. How long has the game been out, dude? I was talking about people who blew to sixty in a month and who -- true to form -- spent months bitching about the lack of raid content. The raid content started expanding when the average player hit 60 -- in short, the smart way. We're talking about initial game and game launch, not the game a year or more out from launch. People who listen too much to the catasses create a game where the only shit to do is raid, so everyone grinds (not plays, not has fun, but fucking grinds!) to max level and starts raiding. Blizzard ignored that shit, and put together a nice 1 to 59 game with minimal raiding content for the catasses, then phased in raiding content as players started hitting 60 in large numbers. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Merusk on May 05, 2006, 01:45:44 PM Ah, but even in that they're too slow. The casual folks would like more breadth (more options than running MC for 3 months, then BWL/AQ for 3 months, then this new instance) to the 60 content, while the hardcores want more depth. (more upgrades, longer progression than 2.5 raid zones.)
Blizz is so slow about content they're satisfying /neither/ contingent at this point. This, I suspect, is part of the reason they've upped the loot on the low end while at the same time halving party sizes. It will take toons a LOT longer (More than double, as while party sizes were halved, the number of healers are still the chokepoint.) to get thier blue sets or equivalent now than it did a year ago. This slows everyone down. Also , Bliz knows they're slow, and they're working on making PvP more attractive by balancing around it to counter this. If everyone's pvping, they don't have to generate any kind of PvE content at a quick pace. If you're PvPing the players are the content, and all you have to do is provide more arenas for it. A much better solution for them than tossing out their processes and heading down the SOE path of 'just shovel it out the door, we'll fix it later.' Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Morat20 on May 05, 2006, 01:53:02 PM I'd be the last to say they're perfect -- but they've done a hell of a lot better than most games out there in trying to time the content against the median player.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: HaemishM on May 05, 2006, 06:23:20 PM That's why I find it so funny that some devs spend so much time there. It'd be like inviting your most dedicated fans, the ones who're willing to pay over double the monthly fee, to be your first testers on a sequel you're specifically looking to target casual players with. Oh, wait (http://everquest2.station.sony.com)... It's more like inviting all your favorite stalkers over for dinner every night. I can't wait until the Vanguard devs seek out the restraining order. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: El Gallo on May 05, 2006, 06:32:48 PM For something relevant both to the h8 Vanguard thread and the h8 FoH tangent, I present....
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/22202-soe-publish-vanguard.html TL;DR: Microsoft is dumping Sigil and they may get picked up by...drumroll...SoE. First page of FoH posters laughing at VG fanbois. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Azazel on May 05, 2006, 06:38:08 PM linky no worky
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: El Gallo on May 05, 2006, 06:39:49 PM FoH appears to be in the shitter atm. Here's the link to the VG forum http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51136
Quote May 5, 2006 – Carlsbad & San Diego, CA – Sigil Games Online and Sony Online Entertainment LLC (SOE), a global leader in the online games industry, today announced that Sigil is working with Microsoft Game Studios on an arrangement to acquire the rights to its highly anticipated massively multiplayer online (MMO) game, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. These efforts have resulted in a tentative agreement for Vanguard to be co-published by both Sigil Games Online and SOE. All three companies will be showing the game at the upcoming Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) as they work closely together for a successful transition. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is scheduled to launch this winter. “As the development process is ongoing and constantly shifting, it became clear that MGS and Sigil had varying visions and direction for the title’s development,” said Brad McQuaid, CEO of Sigil Games Online. “In the best interest of Vanguard, it was decided that we would buy back the publishing rights from Microsoft.” As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOE’s Station Access™ subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOE’s MMO titles for one low monthly price. “We are very excited to be working with so many old friends at Sigil,” said John Smedley, president, Sony Online Entertainment. “Vanguard looks beautiful and has an incredibly rich game world. It’s the type of game that will appeal directly to SOE’s hundreds of thousands of players and should fit in perfectly with the current line-up of games available in Station Access.” ”This decision was made mutually by Sigil and Microsoft, in the best interest of the long-term goals for the title,” said Phil Spencer, General Manager at Microsoft Game Studios. “As a key Windows development partner, we will continue to work with Sigil to ensure Vanguard’s ongoing success.” Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is the next generation of massively multiplayer online games. The journey takes place in the fantasy setting of Telon, a vast and ancient world of magic, intrigue and adventure. Facing the challenges of a war torn world, the diverse people here struggle to rebuild their once great civilizations. A fragile alliance has been struck, with the lands set upon by invading forces, the races must band together to survive. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is currently in a closed beta phase. The game will remain available via Fileplanet for existing beta testers during the transition to SOE. New information will be sent out to testers as the changeover occurs. For more information about Vanguard: Saga of Heroes please visit www.vanguardsoh.com. About Sigil Games Online Based in Carlsbad, California, Sigil Games Online is a studio dedicated to creating massively multiplayer online (MMO) games. Founded in 2002 by Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler, key figures in the development of award-winning EverQuest, the company plans to be a driving force in the continued evolution of this unique genre. Sigil Games Online is comprised of an all-star team of experienced developers with an impressive pedigree of commercially successful and critically acclaimed online games. For more information, visit www.sigilgames.com. About Sony Online Entertainment Sony Online Entertainment LLC (SOE) is a recognized worldwide leader in massively multiplayer online games, with hundreds of thousands of subscribers around the globe. SOE creates, develops and provides compelling entertainment for the personal computer, online, game console and wireless markets. Known for its blockbuster franchises and hit titles including EverQuest®, EverQuest® II, Champions of Norrath®, Untold Legends™, and PlanetSide®,as well as for developing Star Wars Galaxies™, SOE continues to redefine the business of online gaming and the creation of active player communities while introducing new genres on various entertainment platforms. Headquartered in San Diego, CA, with additional development studios in Austin, TX, Seattle, WA, and Taiwan, SOE has an array of cutting-edge games in development. SOE is owned by Sony Pictures Digital and Sony Computer Entertainment America. SOE, the SOE logo, EverQuest and PlanetSide are registered trademarks of Sony Online Entertainment LLC. Untold Legends is a trademark of Sony Online Entertainment LLC. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and Sigil Games Online are trademarks of Sigil Games Online, Inc. (registration pending). All other trademarks and trade names are properties of their respective owners. Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder __________________ Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Miasma on May 05, 2006, 06:45:04 PM Who said you can't go home again?
Edit: Maybe this is why they bumped the Station Pass price. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Azazel on May 05, 2006, 06:53:49 PM That's exactly what I thought when I read it...
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: dusematic on May 05, 2006, 06:55:34 PM I just thought how delicious the Vanguard forums would be, and I was right! MMMMMMMMM, savory despair.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: schild on May 05, 2006, 07:14:21 PM Wtf?
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Miasma on May 05, 2006, 07:40:12 PM I just thought how delicious the Vanguard forums would be, and I was right! MMMMMMMMM, savory despair. I can't access their site right now, I keep getting browser timeouts. I think I made it through once. That's what happens when tens of thousands of broken hearted fans try to hit the forums at the same time. And since they are grind loving Vanguard fanbois you know those bastards will be patiently sitting in front of the computer clicking the refresh button again and again for hours.Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Merusk on May 05, 2006, 07:51:28 PM They're all spinning it as a positive on the FOH forum. "This just shows they won't release until it's ready!!1!" "They weren't going to let MSG push them around and change THE VISION!!" Smed and McQUaid showed up in the post as well. It's amusing on many levels.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Azazel on May 05, 2006, 07:58:19 PM I love it!
Quote Darinford Senior Member Join Date: 2006 Feb Re: Vanguard published By SoE? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SOE botched SWG and is catering heavily to casual gamers. I seriously do not approve of this. Interesting for the next round of consoles though. Obviously MS doesnt value the idea of VG on the 360 that much. It'd now likely be a PS3 exclusive, if it's even possible to run on a console... God Damn, there's some gold here, Jerry. Quote Mutter Member Join Date: 2006 Apr Re: Vanguard published By SoE? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ummmm no!!! Microsoft doesnt just back out of a game that can do as well or better than WoW. So something is up or something big happened for a company to give up on this title. And this, even better. These guys have some serious emotional problems. Quote scorpion Senior Member Join Date: 2005 Aug Re: Vanguard published By SoE? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- sony must die... i was going to buy a high def TV from them... they can screw off now... i mean serusly. they want to screw me here they have lsot a customer for life. i am personally boycotting all of there products. :heartbreak: Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: dusematic on May 05, 2006, 08:28:52 PM It's like gay people. You know more of them are out there than are letting on. The internet proves there are so many disturbed living among us, people who can barely knuckle down and pull it together to pass themselves off as legitimate people in public.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Miasma on May 05, 2006, 08:30:28 PM Quote from: Brad McQuaid Microsoft was TOTALLY cool with this. They are still very happy about Vanguard and looking forward to it bolstering their Windows platform. Vanguard will be an XP game, but also a Vista game, offering both 32 bit and 64 bit clients. We will continue to work closely with them and with Vista's focus on entertainment/games/graphics, as well as online, Vanguard is key. Yes, his little computer game is going to make or break Microsoft. Delusions of grandeur.Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Trippy on May 05, 2006, 08:47:10 PM I'm puzzled by this. Did somebody (not SOE) just drop a bunch of money onto Sigil's lap? If not and if Sigil already had the money to buy back their IP why did they sell it to Microsoft in the first place? It would seem there's some mysterious fourth party here or else Sony is so desparate to compete with Blizzard that they basically just gave Sigil a bunch of money with no strings attached.
Edit: here's a search link to see all of Brad's posts on the Vanguard forums: http://vanguardsoh.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=7 Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Miasma on May 05, 2006, 08:50:53 PM He said they raised the money to buy back the rights. He didn't say from who but he did say it wasn't from SoE.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Trippy on May 05, 2006, 08:53:40 PM He said they raised the money to buy back the rights. He didn't say from who but he did say it wasn't from SoE. Ah okay that's what I figured. Then he's basically beholden to that party instead of Microsoft or SOE.Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: dusematic on May 05, 2006, 09:02:56 PM I'm puzzled by this. Did somebody (not SOE) just drop a bunch of money onto Sigil's lap? If not and if Sigil already had the money to buy back their IP why did they sell it to Microsoft in the first place? It would seem there's some mysterious fourth party here or else Sony is so desparate to compete with Blizzard that they basically just gave Sigil a bunch of money with no strings attached. Edit: here's a search link to see all of Brad's posts on the Vanguard forums: http://vanguardsoh.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=7 Clearly MS dumped them because A) Sigil wasn't cooperating with the program, or B) the game sucks. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Azazel on May 05, 2006, 09:22:20 PM c) All of the above?
The leaked NDA stuff coming from former-fanboi betatestes isn't exactly inspiring, after all.... Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: dusematic on May 05, 2006, 09:30:00 PM Sorry, I'm not good with multiple choice.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Margalis on May 06, 2006, 12:08:41 AM To be fair, the games that Microsoft have had their hands in have often turned out worse because of MS interference.
Both Impossible Creatures and AC2 are good examples of this. Both used MS technology that didn't really work, because they were owned by MS. Impossible Creatures had major networking issues as did AC2 with the chat server, IIRC both of which used some shitty MS APIs like DirectPlay or something lame like that. But anyway these Vanguard guys seem like total amateurs. I love the stupid musings they have on screenshots, like it's some big philisophical debate. "Hmmm...choosing what screens to show is really a difficult challenge, blah blah blah blah blah..." Show screenshots that make your game look kick-ass. It really isn't that difficult. Screenshots of an empty field? No. I like how there are a lot of games that are supposed to release this year that still don't have any shots of UI, no idea what will ship "at release" at what won't, etc etc. It's like if you go to the forums of one the amateur game-creation sites and 95% of the people there have no clue whatsoever. Apparently these people have now graduated and gotten real jobs. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Trippy on May 06, 2006, 12:47:11 AM To be fair, the games that Microsoft have had their hands in have often turned out worse because of MS interference. Yes, Microsoft was seemingly duking it out with EA for the title of "Worst MMOG Publisher" among the major video game publishers -- they just don't seem to get it. So from Sigil's perspective this is a huge improvement unless their unnamed benefactor suddenly decides they want to get involved with the game's design. I find the anti-SOE sentiment on the Vanguard forum interesting, though. Do these people not remember what EQ was like when Verant was in charge of the design?Both Impossible Creatures and AC2 are good examples of this. Both used MS technology that didn't really work, because they were owned by MS. Impossible Creatures had major networking issues as did AC2 with the chat server, IIRC both of which used some shitty MS APIs like DirectPlay or something lame like that. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Broughden on May 06, 2006, 12:53:48 AM Do these people not remember what EQ was like when Verant was in charge of the design? Yes, and they liked it. *shudder* Brad=Mesiah to them.Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Tale on May 06, 2006, 01:16:08 AM LOL. It's been a great week for MMOG news :)
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Azazel on May 06, 2006, 01:58:24 AM They remember how amazing EQ seemed when they first started playing their very first MMOG. Then by the time that Verant got consumed by SOE they were gettign disenchanted. You know how it is, you look back at old stuff you went through and laugh about it later. I remember lists for frenzy in LGuk, and can laugh about it now and even look back at it semi-fondly in that "ahh, remember when we.." way, but no way in fuck do I want to relive that.
It's the same reason I won't commit to a "proper" guild in WoW despite knowing I could easily be uber if I gave enough of a shit. I'm not willing to put that time in again. These guys are desperate for a game they have to dedicate their lives to. Also, they like grinding, timesinks and being sodomised by large objects without lube. "LFG debuffer for tree harvesting grp at redwoods 2 PST" Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Simond on May 06, 2006, 02:06:17 AM Quote “As the development process is ongoing and constantly shifting, it became clear that MGS and Sigil had varying visions and direction for the title’s development,” said Brad McQuaid, CEO of Sigil Games Online. “In the best interest of Vanguard, it was decided that we would buy back the publishing rights from Microsoft.” Microsoft: Make the game more like WoW. Sigil: No. MS: OK then, either you buy back the publishing rights and find your own publisher, or you're all fired and we'll put our own team onto developing Vanguard. Later... *Phone rings" "Hello, John Smedley speaking" "Hey John, it's Brad...." Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Krakrok on May 06, 2006, 11:58:58 AM The ads in this thread are for curing bad breath. Even Google gets a bad taste in it's mouth when it thinks about Vanguard? Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: sarius on May 07, 2006, 07:44:14 PM The ads in this thread are for curing bad breath. Even Google gets a bad taste in it's mouth when it thinks about Vanguard? It couldn't be as bad as Dark and Light turned out to be. But, this is bad news, either way. I'm sure SOE will own them within the year and if there was anything good remotely inherent to the build, destroy it. :) Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Chenghiz on May 08, 2006, 03:05:17 PM A friend of mine claims that the installer isn't actually 16 GB. Can anyone confirm that claim?
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: HRose on May 08, 2006, 04:31:27 PM I've read the current install file is 5gb. I don't know if it's bigger once installed.
Anyway, what the fuck they put in 5gb? EQ2 is less than 6Gb after two expansion and with super high res textures noone can use. Half of that is about voice files. Vanguard is supposed to use the Unreal engine, I really don't know what the hell they did with it. Btw, it seems that currently the game doesn't even run on an nvidia video card. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Tale on May 08, 2006, 05:00:33 PM A friend of mine claims that the installer isn't actually 16 GB. Can anyone confirm that claim? I haven't seen anyone claim that the installer is 16Gb. The claims I've seen are that the installation (once it's on your hard drive) takes up 15-20Gb. That's pretty big. Quote Btw, it seems that currently the game doesn't even run on an nvidia video card. According to NDA-breaking posts elsewhere (FoH) that's not true. It runs on nVidia cards, just worse than on ATI cards. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Megrim on May 08, 2006, 05:47:33 PM I've read the current install file is 5gb. I don't know if it's bigger once installed. Anyway, what the fuck they put in 5gb? EQ2 is less than 6Gb after two expansion and with super high res textures noone can use. Half of that is about voice files. Vanguard is supposed to use the Unreal engine, I really don't know what the hell they did with it. Btw, it seems that currently the game doesn't even run on an nvidia video card. Well, a friend of mine recently complained that his WoW directory was around 7gigs in size. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Merusk on May 08, 2006, 06:41:32 PM How many add-ons, screenshots does that include? I've got 10 gigs, but that includes almost two years worth of screenshots (b3.9 gb) the Interface folder, (41.9mb), patch .exe files (that don't delete unless you delete them yourself.) and the WoW Test directory, which is a gig and a half on its own.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: HaemishM on May 09, 2006, 12:44:23 PM I gave my two cents about this already (http://www.gameangst.com/Games/p2_articleid/34).
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Megrim on May 09, 2006, 05:24:39 PM How many add-ons, screenshots does that include? I've got 10 gigs, but that includes almost two years worth of screenshots (b3.9 gb) the Interface folder, (41.9mb), patch .exe files (that don't delete unless you delete them yourself.) and the WoW Test directory, which is a gig and a half on its own. Hrm, dunno, i'll have to ask him. It surprised me as well, since i know he does not keep many screenies, so maybe he has a lot of mods installed, or something. But even 7 gigs to me, still seems like an absolutely huge amount of space. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Venkman on May 14, 2006, 05:20:07 PM Just a quick thought from E3.
This game is so much like an EQ1.75 it makes perfect sense SOE would pick it up. This is geared specifically for the one crowd they seem to know so well. It really is as if Brad set out to make a better EQ1. Unfortunately, it feels as though this was all done in a huge vacuum, ignoring the discoveries of the last two years that highlight what a really better EQ1 needs to be. I doubt anyone's surprised by that. It's a fine game. I don't think it's going to be huge though. Not in the day of WoW and GW. Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Righ on May 14, 2006, 06:07:57 PM Parley minigame. LOL.
Title: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Tale on May 14, 2006, 07:52:35 PM Parley minigame. LOL. Why can't you laugh in the appropriate thread (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=6843.70)? :PTitle: Re: Vanguard really ramping up the excitment Post by: Righ on May 14, 2006, 09:38:37 PM Sorted.
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