f13.net

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/realmtypes.shtml



Yay. I cant wait for the push to start creating my pvp rogue.

From the way they have it set, there is no home invasion inless the home team starts the combat. Im not sure how I feel about that, but it IS a good way to start off having consentual PVP on a PVP server.

And this about the normal None-PVP servers.

They really surprised me with this system. Now I need reasons and objectives to fight for.

If they are able to bring the FvF INSIDE the regular world they'll make my dreams come true.

This almost makes me want to play. Almost. Need to see how it turns out.

Surprised you? This is a game based on a franchise that's all about race wars. I would have been surprised if they didn't offer it.

I'm not surprised their offering it, I'm surprised it sounds good on paper. Let's see how the balance works out, given Blizzard I'd be surprised if it's more complicated than r/p/s.

Sounds like the Star Wars Galaxies TEF system. I'm afraid. Very afraid.

There will be exploits and they will be found quickly. Since it is a flag system, there will be a lot of "bait" tactics with "allied" guilds of opposing factions (a.k.a. people who know each other IRL and organize their grief) and with players who play multiple accounts. I certainly hope they can come up with a working system, but I have already devised several exploits just from reading that, so changes will need to be made... or not. If I can see the exploits, certainly the beta testers are going to find them, but maybe Blizzard is just banking on player justice and player policing. Har! Yeah... that'll work...

As you should be. There's too much complexity to the WoW system already, and if they start making changes, it'll only get worse. It'll either grow too complex that people will not want to bother, or it will stay as is and Blizzard will just let the players work it out (i.e. grow complacent with the system) on their own.

Wasn't Horizons supposed to be a game based on PvP between races, too?  Too bad they ditched the idea, however.  I don't know... it might have been enough to save the game.  

Thanks for that, Morphiend.  Your updating keeps me away from that horrible, horrible website!  This sounds like a lot of good fun, actually.  Although I may not be terribly excited YET... things like this confirm my decision to give the game a try when it's released.

With angels and devils and vampires that ate people and underwater races and etc...

Would have been a great game, if the actual process of creating it as originally imagined was actually, you know, physically possible.

It's still a level based game. Even if PvP was the core of the design, I wouldn't be on board. I hate level-based pvp, but then, I'm not a hardcore mmog player.

Yes, well... there was that whole being possible thing.  Even very clever developers are having trouble getting around that one.  Oh well.  Maybe we should talk about the interesting bits that Horizons has in it now?

...........................................
...........................................
...........................................
.............. oh well.

:(

Star Wars TEF system sucked nuts.  Hordes of people would stand around and wait for someone to TEF, and then mass gank the snot out of them.

David Allen has managed to hide in the code naked pics of himself?

hehe... you are a bad man, Mr. Rose!

I am not much of a PvPer, but I don't think that the system will result in too much SWG style TEF crappiness on the RvR as long as there are only a few green zones.  It sounds more like the standard "RvR is enabled everywhere except a coupld newbie zone" with the addendum that you can fight in newbie zones so long as the "defender" starts the fight.

Now the "you get a TEF if you attack a factioned NPC on a regular server" is an asstastic idea, unless that factioned NPCs are only found in cities or whatever.   People aren't going to be happy when they get TEF ganked when they are sent out by an NPC on some mission to kill some tauren mobs or whatever.

As far as I have seen, the NPCs they are talking about ARE the town NPCS, they are also at little outposts and such also, AFAIK these are more like random towns folk, NOT the mobs people will be hunting for exp/quests.

Update on the upcoming patch.

The mail system.



I really like this idea, and yes, you can mail stuff to other characters on the same account. No need to have a friend hang around when you want to transfer stuff.

Im not really excited about the COD mail taking an hour to arrive, but it sure takes some of the hassle out of trading, and getting scammed and such.

It's been done, but is generally a good idea.

Regular mail with just plain text messages is a good feature to have, but often underutilized.   City of Heroes has it - most people don't bother to notice.

The package mail is in FFXI, and it's used constantly to relay things around.   It's tied into the auction house, in fact.

What I'd like to see are in-game boards. Like private, permanent boards for guilds and even public ones to discuss and organize things.



I think this isn't so useful, all the trading will simply happens in the auction houses like in FFXI.

I think the biggest problem with CoH's in-game email is that there is no notification when you get a new message. Unless you check it regularly, you'll never know you got an email.

I think the system should add in notification that you received a message.  I don't think running to the mailboxes all the time if you are far from town is going to be very fun.  Maybe notification only for a COD.  I could live for that, the 30 days for the rest of the stuff is pretty long, but 3 days is a DAMN short amount of time.  Made more annoying by the 1 hour wait.  The short duration means that you pretty much have to tell the person it is coming in advance, and then the 1 hour wait could make them wait for it.  I don't really see any benefit to the 1 hour delay.

And I would personally like to be notified when I have a message.  A little immersive breaking, maybe, but I think it could eliminate the frustration that is feeling obligated to check email all the time.

The system looks nice, nothing ground breaking or new, but nice.  Ditch the 1 hour wait.

Oh, and EQ hasn't had problems with handing stuff off to an alt for a LONG time.  It was over a year ago that they added in shared bank slots that exist for all characters on an account.  I don't know if DAOC has any way of doing this yet or not.

I wonder if the delay is an anti-duping measure?

I can follow that, but why not 5 mins then?  1 hour is too extreme for me to believe it has anything to do with duping.  If the server is 5 minutes behind you have a lot more problems than duping on your hands.

Re: Notification.

I was just thinking about that.  But to avoid the 'immersive' breakage, perhaps it could be an item.  You know, like they way they have the rest stones or whatever that allow you to teleport.  Maybe a grand L10 quest guaranteed reward is a Mail Mouse -- a magical mouse that lives in your backpack, it squeecks a message that only you can hear when you get an email, telling you who it is from and the subject, then it's up to you to go to your mailbox to retrieve the full mail?

Just a thought...

An attempt to add more depth to the post:

Just saw this at the b.net forums http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=79201#post79201:


I think it's a fantastic idea, even better if you can dress them up a bit...name them and the such, maybe let your pet carry a little pouch around it's neck for extra items or something.  Really appeals to me in a hidden pokemon kind of sense.


EDIT: A magical mouse, what the living hell is wrong with me. -Kept the post as a warning to myself to not post right after work.[/url]

Your avatar is Dave Chapelle. A magic mouse is the last of your problems.

A 'you cant attack me but I can attack you' system is dumb.  

If you want to make 'safe zones' then go ahead, but the stupidity of having a huge horde of orcs invading human territory and not being able to attack anyone...  And from a gameplay perspective you are going to have people running around waiting for someone to attack them so they can fight back.. then you have all the flagging exploits we saw in UO.

I'd rather see, low level safe zones near towns which have uber guards to protect your race or are just simply no go zones for enemy races.  Then all higher level zones, anywhere with good drops, boss mobs etc are all pvp+

I dont see whats wrong with the DAOC model really for racewars.

I don't either, but WoW has to do SOMETHING different from the rest of the games out there, other than the skins.

As for pets, I'd have to make a pirate with a parrot pet just to walk around all day going "ARRRRRR! Shiver me timbers!"

The DAoC ruleset earned them the DAoC playerbase.  I'll pass.  These are the people who insisted that housing was useless because it didn't confer any RvR advantage.  

People here asked for a fantasy Planetside once.  It exists, albeit with a mind-numbing, time-fucking preamble to 50, a few Master Levels, and then artifact hunting and leveling.

No, it doesn't.

And that is why it's not fantasy Planetside.

--
Alkiera

You visit town a lot more in WoW than in most other MMO's. Whether it be to sell loot, do some tradeskilling, complete a quest, or (now that they added it) rest up a bit.

It's not a major hassle to return to town either. Long distance travel is made less tedious with the flight paths, and each character obtains a Hearth Stone (Teleportation to bind spot item which has a fair casting time, useable once an hour) whenever they check into an inn. There's at least one inn in each of the major cities and smaller outposts, and more have been added with this last build.

Not that I'm against a notification, just that you visit town so often that checking your mail won't be an isolated chore.

And how long does a typical from Spot X to Town Y trip take? I'd be interested to hear time spent traveling from random current location to town by each of the methods if you can guesstimate an average. Travel time is not bad if I'm seeing a new area, but after the 5th time, running back and forth, it becomes a chore and Yet Another Time Sink, YATS ™.

there are something like tps

I prefer proper housing, myself.

Huh?

I really hope this is some ones joke account.

He's neat, can we keep him?

Do you mean "teleports"? As in, total reliance on a a specific class to get me where I need to go? 100 plat per ride? No thanks if that's what you mean. But perhaps you did mean native American dwellings. The mind boggles...

tp=town portal

I'm going to have to invoke the 1st grade English stick. From now on Johnson or Ubern00b, whatever you want to call yourself - speak in complete sentences, kkthx.

Stand back!  He's mine!  Did those pesky camels die yet?  I need a place to keep him.

You feed my camels, goddamnit.  Starting tomorrow I'm out for 3 days and they're starting to get low on straw.  

If anything, just make sure they don't die.  I think if you feed them 10 straw per camel every 24 hours they'll scrape by, but just won't poop or screw.

If you guys let them die, I'm going to do something very mean to one of the pottery wheels.  I'll set up a flax cannon and PK UR FLAX. I'll breed rabid beetles that will do my bidding and slay the first born of Egypt.  

But really, did everyone quit but myself and the lurker? It's getting awefully lonely in Egypt.

roofles. No, just been busy.

I know if I play I'll play nonstop (quite the oppisite of CoH).

I got a good taste for what it was, and I'm excited about the second telling. I'll probably get some more time after this weekend to play.

We're equipped now to do some different stuff.  We've got the ability to brew beer, make glass, bottle a vintage of Bat Country wine, slaughter beasts... etc.  So, you've got some more stuff to try out.

Second telling I'm guessing is another couple months or so off. Should be interesting, I know this stint in Egypt has made me a fan.

I haven't quit, Ras.  I'm just trying to get organised for our move in a couple of weeks.  I alternate between worrying that I haven't hired a mover yet, packing and lying down with a sick headache.  I've been in such a mood that I don't want to bother anyone with my unpleasant phiz.  I'll try and remember to feed the camels.  

Tear down my pottery wheel... I accidently put it in the wrong place, anyway.

Well, not really sure how to answer this, but here goes anyway.

First off, with the flight paths, you have to discover new paths (talk to an npc in a town who handles the transportation there) to be able to use the path later on. Like if I wanted to fly from point A to point B, I'd have to visit point B on my own first and talk to the proper npc to establish a flight path to that location. After that, whenever I want to go to that location again, I go to an npc who handles flights, choose my path, and pay the fee for traveling. Prices for flights are, from what I can tell, based on how far away a place is, and if it is a major city/outpost or not. For example, flying from Thunderbluff (Tauren capital) to Orgrimmar (Orc capital) costs 50 silver. But to fly to a place in between (The Barrens - Cross Roads) costs around 1 and a half silver. The time it takes to fly to each location varies upon the distance to that place, so it's hard to give any other average than the one I stated above.

Flights do go over areas you won't get to see first hand until higher levels, so it can be useful for gauging how tough an area is before you go there. I usually use that kind of travel (automated) as a good time to take a break.

When using your Hearth stone, trasportation is nearly instant (Casting time and loading times aside). Load times aren't long at all, and you only go to a loading screen when you enter an instance or travel cross-continent. Otherwise the world is seamless.

The majority of travel in game is running around, but it is usually running with purpose.

Thank you very much for the information, Volm.

If you were expecting a game that is nothing like any other game that was previously released, you're not going to get it.

The reason why MMO's fail is because they try to make some immaculate new whatever that has never been tested before, and they when it doesn't meet expectations there's nothing you can do to fix it.

WoW is using the best tried and tested methods from the best games to make a solid game that people can enjoy for a long time without worrying about the stupid amazing new features you've never seen before, and hence don't know how it's supposed to work, then whine because it doesn't work how people think it should.

WoW is about the WarCraft Universe, in MMO form. It is not about breaking new ground in systems design. It's about breaking new ground in content, community events, GM participation and so on. I know how sick I get when I don't see anything happening in the game world in other games.

"The classes are all the same as EverQuest."

I got news for you, the classes are all the same as Diablo 2 as well, and DAoC, and DnD and LOTR too. You're not going to change the role of a Mage for one game and still expect to call it a Mage. A Warrior is a warrior, they have high hp and they fight well. A Rogue has low hp and does lots of internal damage. How many times do I have to explain to people that you can't call something a Warrior but have the play style be completely unrelated to their purpose.

Furthermore, why do you even use EQ as a comparison for classes anyways? Mages, Paladins, Priests, so on, all exist in the WC RTS!

Not every product needs to offer something amazingly new to the marketplace. The days of invention are long dead. When is the last time you heard of someone getting rich off inventing a blender (a nice new item at the time, but it by no means makes a home)?

It only needs to be of better quality than existing options. Quality is what WoW is offering.

Holy crap. Did you remember you were logged in on a gimmick account? The coherency is mind blowing.

Self-pwnage!

I disagree.

Otherwise you're quite right that a clean release of standard MMOG fare, just with Warcraft skins will probably make tons of money.

The days of imagination and originality may be dead to you, but there are people in this world who still have it. Nowhere does it state that I cannot take a spellcaster in a game I make and call it a Warrior. You are just stuck on the D&D stereotype. Learn to think outside the box and you might see the possibilities.

As to WoW, you're right, as daveNYC said. It'll do well because it is what it is. It's certainly nothing groundbreaking or original. Even rampant use of the old "autoquest" mechanic does not make it any different or better than any MMOG to date. But I'm sure as far as the technical side of things go, it'll be a quality game. Stable, good art, etc.

If that's the case, then why is Hollywood remaking so many older movies? Yep, that's right, because everything has been done.

Why do most video games have bad gameplay now? Why? Because everything has been done, and the only thing they can do now is enhance the graphics. That's not the case for everything, but it probably will be soon.

The same could be said about the music industry, but it's just idiotic children that ruined that. I can't believe some unsophisticated buffoon is being paid for saying "Right thurr, right thurr." How anybody could actually like that type of "music" is beyond my belief.

If Blizzard can't do it, nobody can.

Did I say any of those things were original? Well, right "thurr" might be original, but it certainly doesn't appeal to me. Apparently it appeals to some people out there though. *shudder*

Everything you mentioned may follow the "been there, done that" theme, but then again, you didn't bother to look and cite the fresh and original things out there. Of course, you need to open your eyes and see those things first. I'm not saying I'm enlightened or anything like that either, but there are certainly some interesting and creative things being done in many different industries. Perhaps some of those things have been done before in different contexts. Perhaps not. But history repeats itself and you'll die someday just like the rest of us. So as I said, WoW is nothing new or shocking or amazing. They may implement some systems in a different and creative way though.

The MMO genre is alittle new to have that philosophy about it.. Most things have most certainly not been done with it yet. There is still plenty of concepts to explore. The problem is some things have been successful and they have been copied. Its the ever present problem of people sticking with old and comfortable ideas instead of striking out with new ones.

Hollywood is remaking old movies because they are talentless fucks.  It has nothing to do with an worldwide absence of innovation.

Innovation is only dead to those who don't have any creativity.

Tell Peter Molynuex (can't spell that) that there are no new concepts.  His ideas may not always WORK, but he is certainly creative.  "The Movies" is certainly creative... not sure if it will work or not though.

And even if you believe there is nothing truly new and will call something like "The movies" nothing more than combining different genres, then there is still a lot that can be done besides graphics.  The GAMEPLAY for one has been pretty much untouched since EQ.  There are some exceptions like Neocron, WW2OL/Planetside, MTG Online...  But for every gameplay model that exists, it could be made into a mmog.

Since Johnson101 is late to the party, I'll bring to light what we've figured out about this months ago.

Lack of innovation in the computer game field is mostly just fear of no return investment.   It's a risk, investing money in what's a brand new game concept.   Where things which are considered tried and true, such as your average Dune-II-Esque Real Time Strategy or First Person Shooter, thats where the money tends to go.

It's not that there's nothing new to do.   Humanity certainly hasn't reached the end of what their imagination is capable of.   Rather, it's just considered not profitable to take changes on new ideas.

All hail the almighty dollar, hmm?

In any case, Blizzard (your heroes) are as guilty of plagurism as anyone else in the industry.   Might as well accept that a great deal of their success is based on following on the footsteps of others.    On the other hand, whose isn't?

Suffice to say, it's innovating, and innovating successfully, that actually gets my respect.    Even if that innovation is simply a better implementation of existing principles.   I need to see more to World of Warcraft for me to say it's really worthy of high acclaim.

The kind of work Raph is doing, now that's something to be impressed at.  You may not like how SWG currently plays, but I have to say I've a lot of respect at how much the game attempts to innovate.   It has a player based economy unlike any other, and has a top of the line dynamic content introduction system bar none, among other things.

Thanks that gave me a good chuckle.

edit:  It so obviously can't be true that 'everything has been done' it really puts into stark relief the crap coming out of main stream hollywood studios.  There was a show on the other night following the release process for movies and they had the producer of the recent Rollerball remake on there and she said possibly the funniest unintentional comedy thing I ever heard.  Basically she was ranting about the test screening system and said something along the lines of "You can trust those peoples opinions they can't even spell."

Like when they told you your movie stunk?

And then she went on to blame Harry Knowles (http://www.aintitcoolnews.com) for Rollerballs poor box office performance.

Yeah, so when is Rollerball 2 coming out?

And there's really only one way to make rich people willing to invest in riskier projects... make more rich people, and give the existing rich even more money.  This is part of why so many companies were created during the dot.com boom.

The more you tighten the screws on the rich in order to help the poor, the tighter the rich will get with the remaining money they have.  This is how economics works.  This is why you should always be weary of "soak the rich" Democrats.

Bruce

As a writer and a creative person, I'd rather try to be interesting than original.

OMG, it makes complete sentences. This is like watching that first fish crawl out of the sea, or monkeys learning how to use fire.

ROFLMAO SWG LMAO LMAO LMAO omg that game is so boring... I played that game for 6 months and I can officially say it's the worst game I ever played. It's an online chatroom that you have to pay for lmao, and soon everyone is going to be a Jedi because those devs are retarded.. I bet the space expansion will be laggy as hell and I'm sure there will be one space ship that pwns them all and then everyone will just use that 1 cuz they have no idea how to balance a game

Don't overstay your welcome.

It's like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, only on a message board and without the coherency.

wow this is the internet u dont have to be smart

I'd say that would be self-evident.

I'd say that would be self-evident.

Oh dear, he's relapsed!   I should consider breaking out the translator (http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html).


It took you 6 months to realize this?  Heck, most of us bailed out in 1 or 2.   While I wouldn't say it's the worst game I ever played (, I've apparently played many more than you), I will say that the existing game experience is not enjoyable unless you happen to like crafting on a wide-scale.     (Though as they continue to tweak the game, it may yet become more enjoyable in the swashbuckling combat aspects many of us prefer.)

My point was only that Raph was willing to take a chance on innovation.  

World of Warcraft, on the other hand, is simply Everquest in the Warcraft Universe.  

Just like FFXI is Everquest in the Final Fantasy Universe, Anarchy Online is Everquest in a Sci-Fi universe, Earth and Beyond is Everquest in Space, ect ect.

I'm not going to tell you that WoW will automatically suck if you're bored of Everquest, but I will tell you that the odds are pretty high that this is the case.    

There is something to be said for implementation, however.  FFXI was considerably more enjoyable than any of the half dozen or so EQ clones I've played prior to that.

I'd argue that AO wasn't originally an EQ clone. It is now, but in the early days Funcom did try to be different. Kind of like now when many CoH players are crying to Cryptic for EQ-style character differentiation, itemization, and so forth. Fortunately, Cryptic seems to be made of sterner stuff than FC--at least so far.

WoW impresses me more as a DAOC clone. You can argue that that in itself is an EQ clone, but every time I see WoW screenshots I get DAOC flashbacks. It just reminds me of DAOC a LOT for some reason.

Nah, not really.   The 14ish professions were largely modeled after EQ, with minor differences due to technology.    Replace spells with nano-technology except with a reduced overall variety, and the game was essentially the same.   The skill allocation was different, there were apartments, and other forms of  instancing - that was about it.

have u ever played the game? no so stfu n00b gg no re thx

it doesnt rly matter newayz all MMOS are boring but WOW is made by blizzard so its definitely gonna be good

my friend told me the game pwns all and hes played all the MMOS

Why no, I haven't.  Have you?


no so stfu n00b gg re thx wtfbbq ect

I've been in the "my friend tells me the game rocks!" boat.  Trust me, it means precisely jack and squat.

But honestly, I bare you no malice.   Truly, your blind devotion to all things Blizzard will come back to maim you in ways I wouldn't wish on anyone.    I've seen lesser fanbois than you dissolve in massive crying game breakdowns over what was ultimately their own fault for believing the hype.   No game can match hype: none.   You are killing the game for yourself by thinking one can.

By posting here, you visit the den of some of the truly jaded who know better than to count their MMORPGs before they're released.   Take it from me, set your expectations low or you'll kill any game for yourself before you even play it.

Johnson has completely swayed me.  I agree with every he has said and whatever he might say in the future.  I am smitten.  I can't stop saying his name, either... Johnson, Johnson... it makes me all tingly.

I have a series of T-Shirts (http://shop.store.yahoo.com/gofast/bigjohtshir.html) for you and Johnson101 (who I would bet dollars to donuts wears one of these to school from time to time).

Nice, Geld!  I wish I could get Righ interested in fashion. like you.  With duds like that and a fancy gun rack in the back of the F150, we'd be the envy of the trailer park!

Its very simple for me.  I liked DAoC, but I always thought the game world was a bit lifeless, and I wished that the quests were better written and implemented.  I even tried a "quest-oriented campaign" with some RL buddies that, predictably, fell apart (to our credit we did make it with this approach until the early thirties.) Along comes Blizzard with - tada - a quest-based game set in the much more interesting Warcraft world.  Normally I would be worried about an MMO being buggy on release date, but Blizzard products are typically rock-solid at release.  As it happens, I also like the art direction.

So I look forward to it.  I don't have to apologize for the failings of the Battle.net crowd, real or imaginied.  I fully expect the game world to be filled with fucktards.  Welcome to the genre.  

My only real concern is the reported "cookie-cutter" nature of the classes.  Not good.  But its not enough to go running in circles railing against Blizzard.   And its certainly not enough to make me start a gimmick account and play "parody of the fanboi" for an audience.

Look, Warcraft is Warcraft, and warcraft pwns all so even if it was just some sucky gay EQ clone I'd still play it, but I know that's not true, so I now know that it is not true I know that the game will be 1337 pwnage and it will just be the undisputed champion of all MMOS any game with the word craft = leet uber gosu pwnage

every1 i talk to say WOW owns

blizzard would never make a crappy game cuz it wud ruin reputation

and the player base gonna be AWESOME!! no 40 yr old losers that still work at mcdonalds hopefully! just uber leetspeaking  newbie-pwning gosu finally an MMO where u dont get bashed for being a total d1ckhead i swear all those other MMOS failed cuz they had too many 40 yr old losers

Raph can smell your money.

Quickly, hide.

even bill roper thinks blizzard pwns look

"To be quite honest, if we're out looking for a partner or a publisher or distributor, there's really no better name you can have on the box than Blizzard," he said. "I wouldn't have any problem going and talking too those guys about that sort of arrangement."

thats after he left them too he must be in denial cuz he knows blizz owns all

The reckless abandonment of puncuation has left me moist.

Somebody hasn't played Total Annihilation.


Heh.   First off, those 40 old losers at least have a job, which in the job market we've been suffering under this administration is a fair achievement to begin with.   Second, Blizzard can and probably will attempt to ban all deliberate griefers from WoW.     It's practically a law of successful MMORPG operating conduct long established from the days of early Ultima Online.    It's pretty much just a matter of griefers costing them more subscriptions than they are paying for.


Yeah yeah, nobody's denying that Blizzard has a really good track record.   However, Blizzard's never made a MMORPG before.   It's a whole new ball game now.

Why are people still replying to him? He's long since gone beyond the point of believability.

Because it's fun watching Geldon get his panties in a twist while he takes Pyro seriously.










at least I think it's pyro.

Nah. Pyro couldn't spell worth a shit even if he tried, but even then he could still make a lot of sense.

blizz never made a RTS before and they made starcraft they never made RPG before and made diablo so what makes u think they cant make MMORPG? besides EQ2 is being made by some newbs at sony its not even being made by the original creators they moved on to sigil games to make vanguard or whatever plus we all know this is sony's plan for most of their games: SOE:
make the game's first impression appealing.
Promise many cool things and worry about feasability later.
Get as much attention and publicity as possible, and hope to trap the players in an addiction.
As long as the developpement cost is refunded, the game is a success.
Put many many polygons and use special requirement-heavy features, because higher requirements makes idiots think it's a better game... these same idiots are the ones that become addicted extremely easily.


now Blizzard:
Make a good game.

and remember

there's really no better name you can have on the box than Blizzard

You're basically just listing things that just about all MMO's do (Including Blizzard).




"Good game" meaning if you like MMO "gameplay". Maybe it was fun the first time around, but really, they're all the same. I can only play the same thing once. Even first person shooters offer more variety amongst themselves. About the only thing that improves or changes with each successive MMO is the size and detail of the game world. That's great, virtual worlds are cool, but it still isn't good enough.

I wouldn't even say a developer has to be "original" to bring something new to the genre. They can look to single player games for all the ideas they'll ever need. They don't have to be exactly like single player games to be fun, but they need to learn at least a little from them. Compared to other genres, what MMO's offer is not "gameplay" in the slightest sense. They're "social", sometimes entertaining, even a little "challenging" sometimes -- but they're not fucking "games".

WoW might even turn out to be a good MMO, but that doesn't mean it still isn't shit. Just the best of the bunch, that's all. It's the genre that's broken, not SOE, Blizzard, or anyone else.

Oh, my panties aren't nearly in a twist.   I'm mellow, just explaining a few logical inconsistancies.     After all, gimmick account or not, I've some obligation to set the facts straight.    Plus, I apparently have no shortage of desire to spam.

Actually Blizzard made Warcraft first, in 1994.  It was essentially just a fantasy knock-off of Dune II, made by Westwood in 1992.   Seriously, grab a copy of Dune II some time, the differences between the original Warcraft and Dune II were minimal.

I heard Westwood tried to sue Blizzard over these similaries, which might seem silly now that everybody is making a game like Dune II, but back then it was before the fact.    However, this lawsuit may have just be a rumor, as I couldn't google it, but then that was back in 1994 after all.    (It's probably just as well, this guy (http://21ct.goodolddays.net/game.php?id=23) seems to believe he has a basis to believe that Dune II wasn't really the first of it's kind either, but rather just a mishmash of other games.   Suuure.)

Starcraft came in 1998.     Though you can't say it was their first or even second RTS game (they had released Warcraft II in 1996!), Blizzard still did some pretty nifty innovations, what with the three radically different sides and nice 2d multimedia presentation style.  

(Although some people were a little miffed at Starcraft's privacy intrusion measures (http://www.cdmag.com/articles/011/112/blizzard_sued.html), which apparently stole your name and email address from your system registry and emails Blizzard for some reason (some claim it was because you entered a bad CD key).)

Personally I've always wished they made a Starcraft/Warcraft that let you que up multiple building commands like Total Annhilation did.    I liked that feature.   However, looks like they're afraid that'd break the magic, because it didn't end up in Warcraft III.

So far as RPGs are concerned, the original Diablo had pretty simple mechanics.   Only three classes, the entire character system revolving around 3 statistics.    Considering how little RPG mechanics were actually in the original Diablo, it had about as much in common with D&D as it did Gauntlet.

When everything is taken together, Diablo was really a pretty good formula, and I can't really call foul on it at all.    About the only comparison I can draw to previous RPGs was the roguelike games' random dungeon generation, and that is only one small fascet of what Diablo introduced.    For example, the inventory management system has since been cloned many times since Diablo, and Phantasy Star Online cloned a very similar mechanic for multiplayer play.     However, I think Diablo (like most games) was successful because of the sum of each and every individual part and good implementation.


Interesting observation.  I wish I could disprove it, heh.


There really isn't.  However, the funny thing is, they're making a MMORPG.    Alas, poor Origin, back in their heyday before becoming mere safekeepers of the Ultima brand, they made games that could give Blizzard a run for their money.

Seriously, how many good threads are we going to let get sucked down before he is banned.

Say what you will about Blizzard, but they make some pretty good games and go where no others go in supporting games that don't even have the subscription framework now. By far, they have the most successful RTS game empire, even if the C&C universe may sell just as many copies (I don't know the exact stats...), but in MP they really shine. Other RTS makers have failed getting near the bar they have set.

* Battle.net - might be infested with a lot of unsavory gamer fiends, but it's the model that others are trying to implement, albeit not as successful - nightly tournaments, a ranked mechanism that probably is the fairest of all the competitive RTS suite.

* Patches and game balancing - 2 years after and still game patches are being done, recently they released OSX installers for SC and DiabloII - may be standard behavoir for subscription based games, but Blizzard competitor games packages are few and far between, even when multiplayer killing bugs and/or exploits are evident.

* The art - yeah, all RTS is a ripoff of Dune which was born out of another RTS game (or RTS type implementation of a previous game...) but they've got their own stamp. It works for them and they have created a Warcraft universe.

Even though my caffiene pumped click fu RTS days are over, I've gotten my money worth of WCIII & FT. Even though I've only played a few MP games, just from SP campaigns, games, and watching replays of tournament games… …and I see what they were trying to do and they succeeded - while I don't like set maps and smaller battles, their game doesn't have the macroing like other RTS. It may not be a complex Empire war simulation engine, but there are counters and strategies or tactics, and multitasking is paramount.

Will it translate into a successful MMORPG for Blizzard? I don't know. But I think they'll do a better job than Verant + SOE did on their first MMORPG excursion.

Will it stand out enough in what is becoming a very crowded market for the genre? Initially, just because of the WCIII tab,  but who knows if it will have staying power?

We'll find out sometime next year, so it's probably too early to speculate anyway…

They added queued building in a patch to Warcraft III. However it doesn't work as well as it did in TA since the resource models are different so your WC3 worker will stop building and his/its build queue will be cleared if you run out of the appropriate resource(s).

If an MMORPG isn't a game, then why are they called Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game?

Heh, if a MMORPG doesn't really enforce role playing, why include the Role Playing part?

The answer: Developer optimism.

The same reason that North Korea calls itself the People's Democratic Republic of Korea.

http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=209724

Here are some images of the PVP server a guy posted of one of last nights battles.

Nice shots.   Hopefully release will be as eventful as beta.   It seems to me the best battles Shadowbane ever had were prior to release.

Looks like there's stuns in there, judging by how that "Daze" thing killed him in the sixth screenshot according to the combat log.

After giving it a LOT of thought, I think the very best way to sum up WoW is like this.

DAoC + fun - tedium = WoW

Granted, there is still some problems, and a little grinding, but one of the best aspects I have found is you NEVER have to camp a spawn for very long. You are always on the move, looking for the next part of your quest, or exploring new lands. The longest I have had to sit at a camp site so far is about 10 minutes. And that was the exception. Most often it 2 to 5 minutes. none of that, camp this spawn for 5 hours, then move down the road and camp the next spawn for 5 hours.

The quests all flow very nicely, and lead you to the right challenge for you level.


I am working on a big write up of the PVP server for you all.

Funny thing is, I've heard that line before.   It lasts until burnout sets in.

However, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.     The wandering hunting mechanics sound quite good.

I offer a compromise:

If you liked Warcraft III you're gonna love WoW, since the latter is really the former with the same graphics in first person perspective :P

Wow, so not true. The only thing WC3 and WoW have in common is the lore.

And the retarded Blizzard fanbois, how can you forget them?