f13.net

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So for... I don't know, forever... players have been using a third-party program called EasyUO for all their scripting needs.  I've used it myself, simply as an auto-bandager, just because I'm too lazy to click and the developers are too lazy to give me a "bandage self" macro.  Other people, though, use it to completely automate their characters, most notably for mining purposes.  Lately the developers have been making noises to the effect of finally doing something concrete about this situation, but nobody has really been taking it seriously.  After all, if they were going to do something about it, they wouldn't have waited until now, right?

Well, apparently they weren't bullshitting, and today this appeared on UO Stratics.


Seventy-six million stones worth of ore, two-hundred thousand gems, a quarter-billion ingots, and just over one billion gold, all deleted.  A drop in the bucket, most likely, but perhaps a large enough drop to make Joe Scripter think twice before firing up EUO and going to bed.  They could get me to quit using the damned thing if they would just clean up the UI a bit.

Anyway, it was moderately newsworthy and didn't fit within the context of the other UO thread, so here it is.  And if this thread looks familiar, it got eaten by the board last time it was posted.

Moderately newsworthy.

I've never thought EA was going to do much about EasyUO. UO is old, the economy is shot, and it's been shot for so long that everyone with an open account just sort of accepts it. Because of that, closing scripter accounts probably only nets a loss.

So I was a little surprised when I read "UO", "banhammer", and "EasyUO" in the same post. Then I realized it was just all smoke and mirrors.

I mean, a billion gold sounds like a lot. Until you consider that, nowadays (not that I play, but I know the odd person who does (a sister of a friend, or a friend of a friend, etc) - and I happen to know that gold goes for about 5 bucks per million on ebay these days. When I played EA servers from 97-01, the majority of that time consisted of people oohing and aahing if someone had over a million in the bank. I don't think I ever actually had over 100k.

Nowadays, from what I read and what I know, I don't think it's very abnormal for your average "veteran" UO player to have north of 10 million gold in the bank.

Now, how much do you think your average 24/7 EasyUO scripting ebay monkey has?

25? 50? 100?

More?

Considering, it's really no mystery why they posted a bunch of big flashy numbers, and no actual account closure figures.

EasyUO is the only way to make rasing crafting skills anything less than a giant ball of suck. Without Eas UO I'd have quit way before I did and never have come back those 2 times. Takes like 3-4 clicks to make anything, like fuck I'm gonna do that for the hundreds and hundreds of items you have to make to GM a crafting skill.

Quite true.  But then, given how widespread EUO is, EA would be foolish to surprise-ban everyone using it at once.  Far better to ban in small highly-publicized batches and see if the rest will cut it out.

I always used it for crafting too, but attended macro'ing was normally accepted by the devs.  Their check to see if you are there was to pop some text on the screen saying "Hail" or something.  If you couldn't converse with them, BANSTICK.

I do have to support this somewhat though.  I went back to UO about a year ago just before WoW came out to check stuff out.  The biggest let down for me was the player market.  There were vendors everywhere, tons of products, but nothing would sell.  Everyone had everything they needed.  The market was just flooded with stuff.

That was a huge part of what I did (marketing and making items) in my original days of UO.  A big reason I didn't keep an account was due to the hopelessness of the situation.  I do think this is waaaay too late and too little though.

There are scripts now that will converse with the GM for you.  They have to hold an object in their hand and ask you to identify it to confirm that you're not AFK.  :-P

I don't actually understand the motivation for the bans.  Are they trying to clean up Gotham and attract new players?  Unpossible.

Wonder when the first ATK player is banned for being a poor imitation of a script.

Yegolev, one would assume that the new producer is trying to show the populace that he's "tough on crime n' shit".

And that's fine. But I think the name of the game at this point in UO's lifespan is hope for the future, and it's all sort of a song and dance to that end.

I confess I was shocked to find the game was still around. :)

I don't really have a hard time taking the attempt at face value.  Whatever you might care to say about the game, the current developers still try their little hearts out.  Just a few minutes ago I logged in to see that they've gone and patched in a modern targeting system, to do away with that "click-chase the tiny sprite" syndrome that has been around literally forever.  Now I can target that itty-bitty bird, even when it's behind a tree, with one keystroke.  Glory be.

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/GrimDysart/aim.jpg)

They also added a little gump to show what buffs/debuffs are active on your character, and are apparently working on some other UI stuff that tracks your total combined item properties and things of that nature.  None of it is anything spectacular, all of it is stuff that should have been added by previous developers years ago, but I'll admit that I'm pleased to see that the current team is actively trying to improve the ancient game they've inherited.

I'd be happier to know if they are doing all this in preparation of creating a new game with UO'ish qualities.

Don't be silly, this is EA we're talking about here.

If they did, would anyone EVER believe it safe from abrupt cancellation?

It's been around this long, so I'm ready to believe anything.

You misunderstand.  If EA announced a new MMO with certain UO elements, would anyone believe that new project itself was safe from abrupt cancellation?  UWO:O had the rug jerked out from under it right as it was ready to go into beta, and UO:X was killed off earlier in the development cycle.

If EA announced the third attempt at a UO follow-up tomorrow, let's just say I wouldn't be pre-ordering.

They wouldn't need investors so it wouldn't matter much.  I'd sit and wait for Beta.  I never preorder.  Having things two days before others isn't as big of a deal to me as it used to be.  All the gimmics you get are even less important.

I stopped pre-ordering after CoH. Then I pre-ordered AA and forgot I had done so until it arrived in the mail. RMA # plskthx.

Not even if they release it.

There was a brief update posted on Stratics.  Apparently they're continuing the banathon and are up to sixteen billion gold deleted over the three days since the original posting.

Can someone, in simple words, explain to me the current UO economic status? Also, what sort of effect will 16 Billion Gold being deleted have on the overall economy? Is this 16B gold over 30 characters or 300 or multiple full guilds of characters?

As much as I hate discussing it, I'd sort of like to know how UO is functioning in terms of totally destroyed player systems (like the economy).

Edit: Basically, I'd like more insight than Az's post gave me. I can come up with basic math of what's going on. But I mean daily damage this sort of thing was doing? Was it like Weimar Germany? Etc.

Just to make shit up, I'll speculate that this represents 50 to 100 bans, provided they're striking heavily against the Ebay catass money-factory types.  Could be more if they're also getting a bunch of people who are just scripting to buy leet houses and gear.  Personally, I hope it's the former.


If you want the BIGGEST house and the BEST gear, you're going to be competing against all the veterans/scripters/catasses and had better bring a lot of money.  If you just want to get some nice stuff and have fun, it's a surprisingly livable economy.  As an example...

18x18 tile house:  20 million gold
14x14 tile house:  1 million gold
9x14 tile house:  400k gold
9x9 tile house:  Placement cost

Your mileage may vary, depending upon time/place/shard.  The most elite PVP gear can go for 40 million, but I do all my daemon/lich whacking in GM armor plus resistance jewelry, total value maybe 12k.  There are plenty of "minor artifacts" that are reasonably useful which go for between 5k and 100k.

I've seen newbs come into the game and shoot into millionaire territory fairly quickly, but they were all willing to put a lot more energy into the game than I am at this point.

Bumping since I turned up something relevant.  The folks over at UORadio have been maintaining a list of known scripters across all shards for the express purpose of people reporting them, griefing them, kludging up their recall spots with boxes, giving them the PK treatment if they script-mine in Felucca for the double resources, and so forth.

http://www.uoradio.com/uo/scripterlocations.htm

There are only about sixty entries.  Even if this list is way short, and my estimate of 50 to 100 bans is way too optimistic, this has to represent a noteworthy hit.

WUA's report seems close to my experience during my resub a year ago.  There certainly was a ton of cash and items being thrown around, but you could survive and do well easily on your own.  Decent MOB's drop 100-350 gold a piece (1 minute kill,) ore went for crazy good cash, items dropped constantly (the ground is strewn with em in good farming spots) and each item is worthy of using, just not selling.

Hell, I used to go get those gold skulls that let you into the special area of Doom dungeon and sell those for 40k a pop.  It would take about 30 minutes to get them, plus all the gold and items I'd get just from farming the bones to get the skull.  There are a kinds of opportunities to make large amounts quickly.

The huge millions of gold that you hear about are from the people that have been around forever and want the best of the best of the best.  They are min/maxing like no other in no other game.  They are the ones that like to pvp when they know they have the gear/boosted skills/stats to pwn with a 10% chance of losing.  The rest just do what they can with what they have and have fun or quit.

Pretty much.  If there's a Sword of 100% Ownage, it's eleventy-billion gold.  Meanwhile the Sword of 99% Ownage is a fraction of that, and Swords of 75% ownage are practically free.

Chances are that sword of 100% ownage will beat sword of 99% ownage 9/10 times in PvP. Mudflation 4tl.

Why are we still talking about UO?

I don't know, why are you still faggoting up threads about it?

EDIT:  Scored a spectacular deal on a 16x17 house.  I'm rebuilding it into a fucking giant stone palace.  With three-story pillars.  And catwalks.  I'll join the rest of you in the modern world when games start offering less ding and more stuff like this.

Hey, WUA. Go buy The Sims. You pussy.

I love housing, but UO is too ugly, too old, too boring, and too archaic for me to bother, I'd rather play Sim City 2000.

I agree with that.  The housing they finally ended up with was fantastic.  It was of the strong points in my opinion.  However, without all my old friends around to join me in enjoying the finished product it was an empty process.  A new game with something like this would be peachy keen.

I talk about UO because I want a developer to use several of the stong points of the game to make an even better one.  There is a ton of learnings in that one game alone.  It just seems like nobody is picking up on that and going the Diku/EQ route.  I want a game that I love/hate with passion again.  These days it is all moderately good and everyone thinks they are ok.  Bleh.

I've got to agree with that -- I think one of the reasons SWG retained players despite the escalating levels of suck was player housing. Having a nice house showing off all the cool shit you've looted, bought, crafted, found, quested for, etc was pretty nice. I can't believe they never bothered letting you tilt objects though. (If you've got two swords or pikes, having the ability to cross them is important from a decorative sense). It connects people to the game in a rather serious way.

Yes, Schild, I know.  I didn't type that thinking you would go "UO has housing?  I never knew!" and subscribe to the game, and think it was great, and post lots of UO threads of your own, and laud me as the smartest guy in the world.

I'm just kinda asking the universe at large, why is it that this old fossil of a game lets me turn a bare patch of ground into a custom house with pillars and catwalks and leetness, while in any modern big-budget MMO I'm lucky if I get a shitty instanced apartment?

People like housing, and WoW doesn't have it.  That alone should have any developer looking to carve out a safe little niche in the post-apocalyptic MMO market thinking about it as a central design feature.  Any game that could snag even a small portion of the people WoW churns out, and retain them with a shiny house, would be a smashing success by any non-Blizzard standard.

Ugh.  I'm agreeing with WUA... ;)

UO got a lot right.  Still gets a lot right, considering that the game is older than Xenu by MMOG standards, and still reasonably popular.  I think housing has the most to do with that.  It's what kept me around for about 2y longer than I would have otherwise, since there was this notion that it was "my home".  I'm really surprised that other games haven't done similar.  It's got to be one of the easier features to put in, since it keeps a lot of people very happy without the need for very much content (such as always needing to design new dungeons, missions, quests, etc).  Just your very own lego set with house parts and furniture.

*shrug*

The housing in Horizons was supposefly interesting, according to my guildmates who tried it, but it didn't save that game. The system wasn't a modular system though. It was a crafting task set, basically.

UO's system had strength in the ability to allow the players to use their creativity, or lack thereof, to build what they wanted.  It drove them to get more cash to put in more stuff.  Plus, the nearly unlimited number of items that could be used purely for cosmetic reasons was an advantage.  Hell, you could make neat displays using raw materials used for crafting!

At the end of the day though, it is a system that is in addition to a stable good core system.  It cannot survive on its own or it will be as Schild says, SimCity.  Your house was something you came back to at the end of resource collecting, hunting, crafting, selling, PvP'ing, etc. and tweaked to your desire to match your mood at the time.  Put that together with a community you build with your friends and you have a match that will keep people subscribed years beyond the actual content.

Actually Horizons houses did have modular bits, but of course you'd have to belong to a CraftAss Uber Guild like I did to see a lot of the mechanics behind it.  We had some real craft-grinders, and we claimed a nice big plot, put a guild house on it, and some other stuff that was essentially useless.  There was a base building, various decorative items like trees, some addons like a smelter, etc.  However, as with everything else in HZ, it wasn't close to being finished before the game imploded.  My guild was constantly begging for silos to be implemented (properly, too) so we would have somewhere communal to put our raw materials -- you know, as a guild.  One of our members was even a contractor working on the server farm, but Bowman is made of deaf ears.

Even in the horribly shitty condition the HZ plot system arrived in, the demand for housing was immense.  Seems like someone would take another stab at this.

One of the things that really drew me to UO was the housing and crafting system; Even before they implemented custom player housing, the simple ability to point to a fixed structure in game and say 'that right there is mine; I fashioned that out of my sweat, blood, and tears after a month of effort' did wonders for the achiever/builder in me. The ability to store limitless junk strongly appealed to my pack rat nature, and after a while, once I got enough cash (read: gold duping) I was able to be the financial backer to the opening of one of the first (and, being involved with, I feel the best) player run taverns on our shard.

At first, people would just walk off with the barstools, but I'd just craft more. Not long after there was a patch to 'lock down' items. After leaving hundreds and hundreds of recall runes to our front door scattered all over the world and given away free with our little vendor town, the place really started hopping. It got popular enough that GMs came by and created little flower beds, a fence, and other minor enhancements that we could not. It was a social center for a lot of people and any time of the day or night you could find people there chatting it up or playing checkers.

I sadly contrast that with FFXI's attempt at player housing (the instanced apartments) and WoW's complete lack of it and sigh.

I'm one of those players that simply does not understand the need for or appeal of housing.

The only games I have played for any length of time that had housing were Gemstone and EQ2.

I had a house in EQ2, but only because it was given to me. I only used it because it was part of the auction system for that game. I don't care about decorating or any of that stuff. I used my bank for storing spare items.

I played Gemstone way before they had a housing system. It was basically for rich players who had tons of money to blow on something. I didn't own a house in the game, but I had guest access to one. It was in a shitty location too - way out in the middle of nowhere. I took almost a full minute to get there by script (which is kind of a long distance considering). You didn't need a house to store anything - you put money in the bank, and each player was given infinite (I think) locker space for a nominal in-game charge. So really, houses were fluff in this game.

I will really never see the point for myself.

It doesn't really hurt to have them though, does it? So long as it's implemented correctly, of course.

...

My only problem with player housing thus far is the lack of options for architecture. Designing externals would be a major timesink for me.

No, there's not a problem with a game Having housing, as long as it's not practically required to advance in the game.

However, I don't lose any sleep over a game I am playing not having housing.

Different shakes, and all that or something.

There hasn't been any "real" housing since UO, frankly, except SWG.  Until a game has a structure that everyone else can see all of the time and becomes an actual part of the landscape, it isn't real housing.

Even though I really didn't like decorating, I loved building.  I really liked starting with a large plot and just playing with the toolset to build up different walls, arches, doorways, steps, balconies, etc.  My houses always were left pretty empty since the actual decorating wasn't my thing, but other people did some incredible stuff that I can enjoy and appreciate regardless.

However, just being able to drop a bunch of stuff in a chest or on the floor in the corner and coming back to it the next day and know right where it is physically was much more prefered to getting a list pop up to tell you what you have in your external inventory.  UO's system was much more immersive and had that spacial effect to everything that is missing in today's games.

Anymore, if you drop something it goes completely away.  If you look in your pack, you get a list.  That not only doesn't feel real, it is a pain most of the time too.

I was horrified when I started up in WoW and discovered that I couldn't even throw anything on the ground.  Shit, even Diablo 2 lets you do that much.

Diablo 2 lets you dupe things, too.  Dropping money was removed from EQ for that very reason.  If they left it out because they couldn't come up with a better way to stop gold duping, then that's fine with me.  However, I don't disagree with you at all.

I, on the other hand, was ecstatic to find that out.  Ground clutter all over the place really annoyed me about other MMOs.

As I've said elsewhere and before, I don't really want a virtual world.  To me the term implies some sort of Kosteresque hybrid of Tale in the Desert and Shadowbane that would make for a lovely sociological research paper but wouldn't be any actual fun.  What I want is a fun game which pretends to be a world.

Not being able to drop stuff on the floor just tells me that I'll never be able to affect the world in even the slightest way, and that they're not even making an effort to fake-up some world-ness.

You can drop beams of light anywhere. Presumably, housing could be done using a similar mechanism, but I would find Ironforge littered with player houses a bit disconcerting.

Put in a Felucca facet and THIS (http://www.sanriotown.com/onlinegame/index.php?s=features) is my perfect game.
And ban on whoever get caught macroing his/her cuddle skill. 

It annoyed me too, but in a good way.  It was kind of like giving me the chance to be the old crouchety man on the porch yelling at the kids to pick up their trash.  I was shaking my fist at them the whole time too!

Anyway, fast degrade times fixes that anyway.  UO let stuff sit on the ground way too long.  A minute or two is plenty.

*Just had flashback to the Brit bank on the Test Server.  Item overload!*

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