f13.net

http://autos.msn.com/everyday/gasstations.aspx?zip=&src=Netx

YMMV

Ha!  I kill me.

That's kind of neat, though I'm still not going to go out of my way to save .07/gallon.

Yeah, me too, it's not really worth my time and money to go five miles in the wrong direction to fill up.

I wonder if anyone will actually do anything about blatant profiteering this year.

Also, doesn't work on Safari/OSX.

I love my bike

Bike as in motorcycle or bicycle? If you have a bicycle, all I can say is..  :hello_kitty_2:


And I do think the oil companies are profiteering. That's what happens when you allow a monopoly and the only way to break would make it even worse. Some rich guys need to get together and push biodiesel so *they* can be the new monopoly - at least it'd be a bit greener.

Bike as in bicycle.  I live in a crazy liberal college town though, so its ok  8-)


Plus I have a car for when I actually need to go farther than 10 miles in a hurry.  But I only need to fill it up like once a month

Who would do this?  Consumers?  We're all screwed no matter how many people get that "boycott Exxon and Mobil" email.


Em.  Ess.  En.  I think they dislike Apple.

I was kinda hoping Eliot Spitzer would tackle it before running for a new office (governor or senate, I forget). I wish he'd stay the NY AG for the rest of his natural life, he's a great hound dog. Hillary is making rumblings, but one has to wonder if she's just running off focus groups.

NY ftw.

I'm hauling my bike out this summer, too. As it is, I only need to fill up about once a month because I condense my trips down.

Wish I could do the bike thing.  Save some gas and get the exercise I want to.  I live only 10 mins from work, but that's all highway and/or back roads in Kentucky.  Riding my bike to work would be good way to commit suicide and have it look like an accident but little else.

When I bought a hybrid car two years ago, people told me I wouldn't be saving that much money.  They said I was quite mad.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, I am really pissed at myself for not buying a hybrid a couple of years ago. There was a waiting list for them up here in commie pinko lefty hippy land, and I didn't wanna wait. Instant gratification ftl.

A guy I work with bought the first year Honda Insight hybrid in early 2000 for $14k, $9.5k after trade-in.  Still running like a top, still averaging @70mpg with sustained peaks of @160mpg.  So he tells me anyway.

Me I'm just happy diesel is again dropping below super premium prices.

Wait until you have to replace the battery.  My brother's fiance's family bought the Honda hybrid and they were saying that you have to replace the battery every 8 or 9 years and that the battery was like, 7 grand.

So, either your car will have crap resale value (who is going to buy a car with a 7 grand repair hovering on the horizon?) or you better be saving a LOT of money on gas.

I love my Ford Explorer. Fuck gas prices. Fuck the rollover danger.

I guess there are also actual shortages of gas due to some switch to ethanol. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060421/ts_nm/energy_gasoline_waivers_dc_3)

Apparently ethanol can't be sent through pipes, it needs trucks to move it.  I would like someone to tell me if this switch to ethanol to reduce smog will offset all the smog created by hundreds of big trucks shipping the stuff around.

I'll just do what my mom did - sell the car to some dumb kid for a couple grand without telling him that it's due for all sorts of maintenance that'll cost him more than the car did.  Again, bwahahahaha.   :wink:  (FWIW, I'm pretty sure your brother's fiance's family is wrong.)

The Insight was the first mass produced hybrid sold in the US so I wouldn't be surprised if its battery packs aren't the longest lasting (first generation technology). Toyota on the other hand says it has lab data (http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2004062345528) showing the Prius battery lasting the equivalent of 180K miles.

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/car-news/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabID=500648&ArticleID=5487&R=ce5487

It's an aussie paper but the numbers match what I was told so, nyah.

Anway,  the battery on this years Insight is only supposed to be about $1300 (now) and to last the life of the car (whatever that means, but it is warrantied for 8 years).

So, as usual, early adopters pay extra for being early adopters.

It'll go back up again when they switch to Lithium Ion and then back down again and so on.

Right now it takes about 4 years to make up the price difference between paying for a hybrid now and gas savings while you are driving it.  This mainly has to do with all the price gouging going on at dealerships who have a long waiting line for hybrids.  For example here in Northern California, there is a 6 month wait on Toyota hybrids and the dealers are charging anywhere from $3k to $5k ABOVE MSRP.  Why anyone would pay $8k more for a car to save $1k per year in gas I just can't imagine.

However as the cars reach price parity with non-hybrids this will diminish with time.

Similar situation with Honda Accords though - initially they were reasonably priced but when they became popular with young working women prices got crazy.  Doesn't seem to have hurt the Accord's longterm prospects.

Most people buy cars with far less forethought and research then they do their televesion or a new spring outfit.  And that's why we still have salesmen working commissions on the lot instead of an online catalog straight from the manufacturer.

Oh, and once again Detroit is shown to be immune to market pressures until they convince a congressman to earmark another tit for them to suck on.

Probably would cut a third off the price of a new car AND the manufacturers would be making more money.  When does the site launch?

You also save on emissions with most of the hybrids, not just mileage... BTW, did I mention my current tank is at 45 MPG after almost 300 miles on my Honda Civic Hybrid? Still have about a half a tank too.

What can I say about F13?  It's really my favorite website in the entire universe!  I love the irreverent banter and sly wit these keyboard jockeys produce.  And I especially love the staff, they're AWESOME.

I thought about a Prius, but geez, if you think normal salesman are snakes this brings out the worst.

I was about to sign the paperwork on one at MSRP when the guy pulls the contract out from under me and tells me the couple that ordered it had come in.  I shrugged and started walking out when a manager pulled me aside and said he would sell it out from under them for $500 more.  I glared and walked on while telling him to bugger off.

A second place was going to also sell at MSRP when it got off the truck the next day.  I came in and they bumped the price up $1000.  I went and bought my fallback, a Corolla, from a third dealership after that.

I keep waiting for Toyota to run with it.  No other manufacturer has the vision they do.

Hell I'd pay a premium just to not have to play games with stupid people.  There was a brief moment in the very late 20th century when internet commerce intersected dealer fleet sales and buying a car was actually pleasant.  I found myself spending more on accessories than I otherwise would.

I confess I do not understand the business model.  Clearly there's more to the revenue stream than simply margin on the actual product sale.  I suspect it's because the manufacturer/dealer relationship throws revenue off how inventory is managed - that the fact someone eventually buys a car off the lot terminates a revenue stream that otherwise realizes residuals.  Almost a *disincentive* to actually sell the product instead of shuffling it around still more.

Of course another interpretation is that corporate execs are so busy plundering revenues to jack their bonuses another magnitude that they really don't have time to focus on such lamer hobbies as building a better widget and selling it faster than the other guy.  THIS is the interpretation I've seen proven repeatedly since the late 1980s.

I for one welcome our future Pacific Rim overlords.  Corrupted confucianism FTW!

It helps to shop around on the Interwebs a bit - the problem is that most dealers still seem to be in the stone age when it comes to having a decent web site, answering questions via email, et cetera.  I think I investigated something like 5 different Honda dealerships in the Bay Area before I found one that was willing to answer my questions AND had the car I wanted on the lot AND wasn't going to gouge me for it.

The trick, as it's been since the 1940s, is to get to the senior sales manager for fleet or lot sales.  They make their bonuses on volume.  But then they also get a nice piece off each lot sale.

Still it's best to time your invasion when the lots loaded and next year's models are showing up in a few weeks.  Then the SSM gets both the lot sale commission and the inventory volume reduction.

Fleet sales is almost always volume based so those guys are hungry and *really* want to get the paper in and out.  Lot sales is always commission-based and the greaasy schmuck you're talking to is desparately trying to jack you above the SSM's cut.

It's a stupid business model, geared around stupid sales staff trying to slice stupid buyers.  It's as relevant as buying a set of replacement wooden spokes for your model T.

Ditto, but make that 3000 miles. Got my Civic Hybrid last year for $500 under MSRP, thanks to the presence of a friend who had mucho experience playing hardball with car dealerships. Never been happier, especially with gas currently at $3.10-$3.30 here in SoCal.

I usually go about 1-2 months between tanks, but then, my commute is extraordinarily short; any compact would go for at least 3 weeks for me.

Average price in my zip code in south Austin is 40 cents less than in 90210.   :heart:

I wish some people would do honest test of the hybrids on real conditions.  Hell, here is the idea, take the same car in diesel, gasoline, and hybrid and do this:

Drive the fuckers 80 mph for at least 70 miles of interstate traffic for at least 6 months doing the trip twice a day.

Drive in shitty traffic for at least 30 miles twice a day in stop and go, hard braking, hard acceleration, and constant reaction traffic.  Same 6 month time test.

I would love to see real world results with at least 10 of each car in each type, with actual fuel costs and service costs.

I actually found the test of a VW Diesel Jetta vs a Toyota Prius Hybrid, and the Jetta got 44 mpg, the Prius got 38 mpg.  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/01/20/opinion/main1224807.shtml

To get the best milage with hybrids people have to retrain themselves how to drive.  They are much more sensitive than normal cars to rapid braking and fast accelerations because that is where most of their energy is made and lost.  (Even in a normal car it can make a big difference.)  If an owner is not willing to do that then they deserve the premium price with the crappy milage.

Yeah, but I can buy a diesel and not have to retrain myself.  Even if you are a great driver you still have to react to idiots on the road, be it the little old lady toolin' along at barely 20 mph and backing up traffic, or the idiot that acts like he is the only person around and ignores everything else including traffic lights, or the fact that sometimes you just want to get somewhere really fast.

If the drivers are so bad in your area that you can lose a significant amount of gas milage to them, I think you have bigger worries.

Just wanted to note that a lot of states let you have a tax credit for the difference on your hybrid to the non-hybrid version. Friend of mine got $2000 back from Colorado and $1000 the next year. Not that that helps a ton, but it's there.

Some places also let a hybrid ride in the HOV lane with only 1 occupant.

Have no fear, it will go back up again when the gas companies notice the reduction in profits; and everyone starts driving their trucks for summer boating/RV season again.

I find myself gazing fondly at farm grade diesel.  Therein lies madness, but oh the sweet surrender of common sense...

Or at sugar-based ethanol, which is what 100% of Brazil will be running on next year, according to a newspaper I just read. But yeah, fuck those farmers, we have terrorists to support.

Brazil has cars that run on rum?  :-D

Not only that, they can switch back and forth to gasoline freely, much like the few E85 cars we have.

And 20% less rain forest, for growing the sugar.

Split the conversation about Hastert in the green vehicle off and merged it with a very similar thread in Useless News.