f13.net

Ok, the more I think I learn, the more questions I definitely have...


I seem to be powergrid and CPU starved on my ships. Is this normal or am I configuring things suboptimally? Is there a ship configurator out there so I can fiddle around with different configurations to see what makes the most sense? A place for advice?

Having gone through 3 ships on one aggravating mission (Worlds Collide I think it's called) and still not completed it, I have a feeling that I am missing something. The guys in the second pocket just wipe through my shields so fast (ship - Kestrel, 1 civilian shield booster, 1mn AB) that I cannot seem to get to the next gate before they are already into my armor and threatening my hull. I was able to run 2x but was not fortunate enough 3 other times. Avid Hawk did it on the first try so I know it can be done -- I just think I am missing some key information on how best to complete this mission. Or, he is jsut so much a stud that I simply need to bow down before his awesomeness....

What is some advice on moving to the next level/kind of ship? Should you rush to it or is there a strategy to stick at a certain kind of ship for a while?

I know I will think of more, but these were the ones keeping me awake last night. Thanks for all your advice and counsel so far...


Zipper Zee

There are skills that will boost your powergrid and CPU and ship modules that will boost both as well but generally speaking you won't have enough for all the goodies you'll want to stick on Frigate-class ships.

I don't know the particular mission you are stuck on but the best tactic I found for the tougher early combat missions was to equip my ship as long a range weapons as I could fit and a shield regenerator and if possible an armor repairer (depending on your ship you may want to favor armor over shields). Then I would warp in, attack the target closest to me and furtherest from his buddies and then warp out as soon as my shields were gone. Then I would fix up my shields (and armor if necessary and possible) and then jump back in and attack that same target again (assuming I didn't kill it on the first pass). Since you mentioned you are using a Kestrel make sure you are using Standard Launchers not Rocket Launchers. Then just fire off a volley or two at your target and run away. Rinse and Repeat until they are all dead.

Seriously - I'm not THAT uber Zipper - heres how I (being Avid in EVE) did it:

- Got out my trusty Slasher (Uber fast ship)
- Equipped weapons in all three slots but DISABLED two of them
- Equipped an AfterBurner and a Stasis Webifier in my mid slots
- Equipped a 200mm Armor Reinforcer in my Low slot

The reason I disabled the guns was so I could have the rest running - the Slasher is a FAST SHIP but it has LOW Powergrid and CPU - so you have to switch between what you want.
- First gate I ran for and didnt even get hit
- Second gate I ran for - got like 50% of my shields pounded down but because I was going so fast (Like 980 m/s) with Afterburner, I outran/dodged most of them
- Third gate I DISABLED the AB and the Webby, reenabled the guns (To do this outside of a base you have to have like 95% capacitor so you have to be careful not going into combat straight away), then went in guns blazing - they were EASY low level pirates, quickly dispatched - I rescued my hostages and went home.

The Slasher is a Minmatar frigate that is dirt cheap - you can pick one up for like 30k ISK - it only requires Minmatar Frigates II so quick to train also.

Let me know how it goes!

For me, a lot of my success is based on people advising me on how best to use my ship, since each ship, and each Race in general, specializes in different things. I do not know anything about a Kestrel, but I'll talk from the standpoint as a Minmatar flying a Rifter (Frigate).

Power wise, it was important for me to at least hit Engineering 3 (+% Powergrid) and Energy Grid Upgrades (-% capacitor use). Both of these resulted in both more Powergrid and less Capacitor use on all equipment. This has allowed me to fit enough to Armor tank.

Armor tanking is basically letting the Shields go and instead focusing on keeping the Armor alive. I do this by increasing the base hitpoints of armor with some Plating, by having equipped a Armor repairer module, and by using a +Resistance membrane. Again, this is mostly based on various bits of advice. Apparently the Rifter (or is it all of Minmatar Frigates?) is built more for Armor tanking, based on a combination of raw abilities, Power Grid, Capacitor, and the equipment that one uses for it being more appropriate than stuff keeping Shields alive. I can attest to that. I've extensively tried both, and keeping my Armor alive is just lighter on the energy consumption all around with analogous equipment.

This is good because most of my fighting is really close in. That is because I like fighting that way and because it has a nice bonus to Small Projectile Damage and target tracking. This means, generally, <1km fighting range. With using the EMP S ammo I prefer, my default orbit is 500m. This hasn't been a problem on Level 1 missions, but man did I get smacked around last night on Level 2s. It's the missiles and long range weapons. My first L2 mission had my Armor down to 25% even before I engaged my first target. Once I managed to close the gap, I had my ABs on, had the target webbed, and just did what I do best :) It's making me want to close the gap asap, so I'm now focused on finishing my training to get a Microwarpdrive (MWD)

Your Kestrel, meanwhile, looks to be a missile boat. Missiles are longer range. Ranged is calculated rather than stated as optimal. For example, a Sabertooth (http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/shipequipment/ammunitioncharges/missiles/lightmissiles/standardlightmissiles/212.asp) flies at 3,750m/sec and has a total flight time of 5 seconds. So either it hits the target at 18,750m (18km), or it fizzles out. This, like everything, can be affected by a number of factors from the launcher to your skills. It may also mean flying at range versus being close in. That's ok for small stuff, but I personally like getting in so close their optimal range is affected, particularly against those afforementioned missile/laser users.

I'm getting into things now where I want to use my Nosferatu (NOS, an energy "vampire" which, like others in the class, syphons energy from the target to my own capacitor), but for awhile have been using Rockets. I started with Missiles, but prefer the faster rate of fire on my Rockets. I like the extra damage too, particularly on harder targets. I've also toyed with the idea of clearing out spawn on a destroy-the-base mission, flying to the local system's station, replacing the NOS with my missile launchers, and going back with them to take out the base. Hafta see if that's more efficient than just Autocannons.

What does a stasis webifier do and how does it work? In particular, how is it useful in the Worlds Collide mission?

Well - I never actually used it in the end - what it does is slow the target down when its activated, so I thought it would be useful in my 'gate run' - but it only works on one target at a time, and within 10k, so it never was used.

In retrospect, could you have used that mid slot for something else like a shield thingy?

And as an Avid Hawk wannabe, I bought and trained to use a Slasher last night. Was zipping around like a madman by midnight. Even named it "Avid Hawk is my Hero".


Well, not really.


Zipper Zee

I would advise swapping the civ modules for real modules... always.  Also there are probably skills you need to get up-to-speed, and some good always-useful ones were listed.  Navigation, Engineering, Electronics, Gunnery, Mechanic for armor repair mods, or Energy Emissions or whatever shields are based on... those are good basic ones.  I would also advise to train up the few that relate directly to how you are fitting your ship: picking shield tank or armor tank is important, since you can either do one really well or both half-ass.  I don't know what kestrels are good at; check the description and see what its specials are, and play to your strengths in both offense and defense.

As for ship upgrades, pick a frigate with bonuses that you like or want and go with that.  You are always going to have to pick and choose your modules due to limitations of slot-type, powergrid and CPU.  Later you might think about mass, such as how a 100mm armor plating module will add ~35000 to your ship's mass.  I think the general consensus is to make a cruiser your next ship once you outgrow frigates, but you do want to be sure that you are ready to move up no matter what you choose.  Cruisers are expensive compared to frigates, so be sure you can fly it better than half-ass before you put it in danger.

Somebody with more experience should chime in.

Never, ever, ever use civillian modules.  There is a reason you can't even reprocess them.  They are considered the trash of EVE.  Most base t1 modules of the same type cost 10~50k.

Electronics boosts your ship CPU and Engineering boosts your powergrid.  Until you get those two to 5 you'll always technically be "underutilizing" every ship you fly in that you won't be getting the full potential from the ship.  Elec. Upgrades as mentioned above is always good, as is Weapon Upgrades (reduces the CPU cost of turret modules).

Well, I was going to start a new thread for a couple of questions, but I'll try to hijack this one instead.  But first, don't feel bad about getting smacked around in the middle section of World's Collide.  I've lost an Executioner, a Punisher, a Rifter, and an Inquisitor there.  I've beaten it twice and had one fade away on me as time ran out.  I'm going to hit it again tonight.  Running through the middle fight is probably better than fighting through, and I may try that if I get smoked again.  I also got that mission from a -19 level II agent.  Last time I got blown up in the mission, I was so steamed at letting myself get distracted from my armor level, that I took my pod through half a dozen low sec jumps without realizing it.  Lucky nobody blew me up.

Also, if you draw the lowbie mission where you have to go blow up the warehouse to recover some cargo, definitely take out the pressure silo, it generally drops 3-4 goodies, plus a bunch of metal scraps I see no use for.  Take out the powerstation first, the shields seem to drop faster.  The cargo pad also has loot sometimes.  Most other mission buildings don't seem to, at least at level 1.

Now my questions:

Where the hell is the Escrow button?  I found the tab once, and now I can't find it again.  There are things about EVE that impress me, but the interface design is not among them.

Second, what skill do I need to deploy jump clones?

Escrow is under the Missions button at a station. I'd have it moved to Market, but I guess they think of Escrow as a pickup mission.

Jump Clones: In addition to Infomorph Psychology (http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/skillsaccessories/skills/science/24242.asp) (+1 jump clone per level), the station you want a clone at has to have >8 standing with you or your corporation.

Yeah, when I read Jump Clone, Infomorph Psychology is just what naturally springs to mind.  Yup, shore is.

Standing of 8?  Hmmm, guess I'll need a couple more missions.

Thanks, I guess this means I better go to a station.

PS: Infomorph appears to be in the spell checker.  Who programmed this thing?

If you want to buy something through escrow make absolutely positively sure that you are buying what you think you are buying. It also helps to learn the "shorthand" people use to describe researched blueprints if you are interested in buying those.

I think it's corp-to-corp standing.  Not player-to-corp standing.  It's great for sovereign stations though if you're in a big alliance.

It uses whichever is higher, I believe, so if you personally grind up to 8 with a corp, but F13/BC only has a 3, then you can still jumpclone to that corp's stations.

Would be a ridiculous distributed grind if it was corp-corp standing; as is, it's merely a ridiculous grind, without the italics.

ISS stations dont require any standing (I believe) to buy jump clones........The price is higher to compensate though!

There are also a few mission runner corps (usually of one guy and his alt) who offer a jump clone service as long as you have no standing with the corp he runs missions for. Basically you pay him, join his corp (and inherit his corp standing standing) buy your jump clone at one of the friendly corps stations and then leave the corp. You are then able to move the jump clone to the required destination.

Ok, ok... I can see I need to get this back on track.

Notes - did name my Slasher "Avid Hawk is my Hero" and now I find out that he is gonna reroll and make my name obsolete... Drat and double drat.

Did finish "Worlds Collide" finally yesterday. Ran like a frightened schoolgirl through the second room and then slowly cut and killed the final room pirates in groups of 3. Then, I got back and the idiot gave me the friggin mission AGAIN!! This makes the 3rd time I have gotten that mission... Silly. Did it first time, running, skirt hiked all the way to the end.


Back to some of the unanswered questions from my first post:

1) This is probably early, but at what point (skills and cash-wise) should I think about moving to a cruiser?
2) I seem to be powergrid and CPU starved on my ships. Is this normal or am I configuring things suboptimally? Is there a ship configurator out there so I can fiddle around with different configurations to see what makes the most sense? A place for advice?

New question: When my application goes through and the corp hires me, how will I know if there is an opposing player (from our at-war rivals) around me? Do my sensors go off all siren-like? Or, do they just whack me and chuckle softly to themselves?

Thanks!

Zipper Zee

My apologies to any frightened schoolgirls out there. The analogy was for purely illustrative purposes.
No animals were injured in the writing of this message.

Number two there, I'm sure other people can give you a hand with.  I know there was a link floating around here for a while for a ship fitting utility thingy.  You generally can't fit everything you really want onto a ship, but there are skills you can get to increase your grid and CPU (engineering and electronics, I believe) which are also requirements for a bunch of other skills if you don't already have them.

As for when to get a cruiser, I'd say as soon as you can A: fly it, and B: afford it (around 5 or 6 mil for one of the cheap ones, I'd say).  As long as you're not in the corp/at war with anyone, that is.  If you're just doing missions and ratting (like me), then a cruiser is more survivable than a frigate.  Also, the sooner you get into a cruiser, the sooner you can start level two missions (though you have to be careful if you don't have all the support skills) and the increased income from those helps a lot.  If you're at war, then I'd say hold off a bit, because you don't want to fly something that expensive when people are trying to kill you.

(Edit: You also need to be willing to abandon difficult missions pretty quickly if you're going to rush into a cruiser.  You'll probably want to cherry-pick the easier missions until you get some better gear under your belt.  You might take a bit of a hit with specific agents, so you may want to consider a few social skills to take the edge off this)

As for the war question, once you get into a corp with a war, opposing players get a blinking red box in the overview if they're right there with you (I.E. within spanking range).  Most people in the corp put a list of known enemy pilots into their "Buddies" list so that they get an indication when enemy players log on and off.  Also, keep an eye on the local channel list to see who's in system.

re: when to switch to a cruiser.  I always suggest when you have 3x the market price of the ship in your wallet.  So ~24mil should do it, but many will say do it asap because it will make money earning so much faster.  So basically there is the cautious and the not so cautious options.

1.  When to get a cruiser?

With Xia it took me just over 2 weeks of focused training to reach a skills point where I was able to pilot a cruiser comfortably - however I'd had a fair amount of time in cruisers before and I had a good idea of what skills I needed to focus on.

Cruisers don't require uber-skills - skills mostly at level 3 in weapons + fitting + support should be sufficient to let you outfit a cruiser nicely with a little extra training required for optimal equipment setups.


Cash-wise?  Well obviously you need to be able to afford at least one cruiser and buy the best insurance for it, however if you keep enough cash on hand to buy and insure a second cruiser you'll always be able to recover - even if the worst happens.

If you're actually *in* your cruiser when it pops then insurance should give you almost enough to buy a brand new hull.  Insurance doesn't however cover modules, so don't go crazy on really expensive named parts until you're sure you understand what your cruiser can and cannot do.

Edit:  Forgot to add that depending on which cruiser you plan to fly the corp might be able to help you produce one at cost rather than at market rate.  Which is nice.

2. Look at the engineering & electronics skills to raise your available PG & CPU.  Look at the weapon support skills to lower the amount of CPU / PG / Cap your weapons consume.

For ship configuration applications QuickFit (http://www.elegance-corp.net/quickfit/) comes highly recommended.

On the get into a cruiser ASAP path I simply keep my frigate in a hanger once I could pilot a cruiser and moved to the cruiser and outfitted it with frigate equipment.    I simply thought of it as a really sturdy frigate until I got the skills up.  You can move up a notch in ratting or missions but not too much more than that.

Better income + more safety = seemed like a no brainer to me.  It's not like I was trying to pvp or rat in 0.2 with it.

What support skills are key? I could certainly benefit from someone elses learnings since when I look at the skill descriptions, I don't know if what I am choosing will (in the end) make any difference at all. Some skills are no-brainers - like standard missles or engineering (currently training to L4 in Eng), but some are more difficult to see the effect of..

Also, another question -- what about stealth ships? How do they work? Someone also mentioned black market skill? What is that?

Probably better to answer my newest question about stealth and cloaking in this thread -- Cloaking Thread (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=6552.0)

Not sure anyone mentioned it, but there's an app called QuickFit (http://www.elegance-corp.net/quickfit/) you can run on your desktop to play around with fitting weapons/modules on your ship.

Still a noob so feel free to correct me here, but in my experience, support skills depend on 1-what kind of ship you're flying, and 2-what kind of role you want to fill.  Skills are used to fit gear (or sometimes just for the bonus), so generally you look at the gear you want and check out what the minimum skills are to fit it.

I don't fly Minmatar, so this is all guesswork, but if you're going for a generic damage build (like, not EW or tackling or anything), things I'd suggest include:

-Small/Medium Projectile Turret: Min ships use projectile turrets, usually, so you'll probably want to mount a medium projectile turret or two.
-Gunnery Support skills: things like rapid firing, motion prediction, and shaprshooting.  Not usually needed for specific gear, but the bonus is handy to have.

-Heavy Missiles:  probably want some missile skills, since Min ships also often mount launchers. 
-Missile Support skills: stuff like missile bombardment, target navigation prediction, and rapid launch.  Again, just for bonuses, these skills aren't usually required for anything.


-Target Painting: Target painters are handy for fighting hard to hit ships, like frigates, when you've got bigger guns.
-Targetting support skills: Long Range Targetting, Signature Analysis, and just plain old Targetting are helpful skills.

Minmatar ships generally armor tank, don't they?  Armor tank skills include:

-Repair Systems: to run armor and hull repairers (mechanic I is a prereq if you don't have it already)
-Hull Upgrades: to equip plating to increase your damage resistances
-Warp Drive Operation: this will let you mount warp core stabilizers

For filling your mid slots, you've got a few options

-Afterburner/High Speed Maneuvering: Afterburner allows you to use afterburners, High Speed Maneuvering is for MWDs
-Propulsion Jamming: Allows you to use Webs and Scramblers
-Shield support skills: probably won't be shield tanking much, but you can still take skills like Shield Operation, Shield Upgrades, and Shield Management to put a bit of a boost in the outer layer.

Again, I don't fly Minmatar, and this isn't fleshed out very well, so feel free to correct me.

This is kind of the eternal question of EVE, and there isn't a very good single answer.  In general:

Missles
Don't worry so much about skills that say they help you hit fast, or small, targets until you're ready to fit heavy missles or bigger.  Focus on stuff that increases rate of fire, increases overal weapon damage (warhead upgrades I think it's called), and increase range.

Guns
If you're putting guns on a cruiser, you might as well maximize by using medium guns.  All the support skills for gunnery are valuable, although based on your combat style you may want to train range or tracking speed first at the expense of the other.  Otherwise go for ROF and overall weapon damage.

Shields
If you shield tank, focus on engineering.  Shield Management and Operation are good, as is Tactical Shield Manipulation because it allows you to fit active hardeners.

Armor
If you armor tank, focus on mechanic.  Specifically Hull Upgrades and whatever the skill for armor repairers is.

Speed
All the Navigations skills are good, not just for cruisers but every ship you fly.  If you're still in low-SP land I'd favor afterburner skills over MWD but I'm not a big fan of MWD in general.  The cap penalty is just waaaay to extreme for me.

Electronics
Targetting, targetting range, and targetting speed are all under the banner of electronics.  They make combat better in general.  Beyond that a lot of the stuff is more for electronic warfare or covops.  I think nos and smartbombs require electronics skills also.

Piloting
Most ship bonuses are based on skill level of the ship type, and they tend to be the beefy +10% bonuses.  Go for at least level three of your cruiser skill.  Spaceship Command gives a minor agility boost and is required for Adv. Spaceship Command (needed for bigger t2 ships), but I'd wait until much later in the game to worry about that.  The boost isn't significant, and Adv Spc Cmd is retardedly expensive (like 45mil last time I checked).


Beyond that, the usual advice I give people trying to decipher the skill tree is to stop looking at it and start looking at the market.  Look for ships or modules that sound cool to you, then check the skill reqs, and plan from there.

More or less stolen from this post (http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=299970) on the EVE forums.  I've grouped them by parent skill (for ex. targeting falls under Electronics and has Electronics I as a prereq) so you'll have an idea what goes where and what bonus the parent skill does.

I'd also vote for using the market to check out skills because you can get an idea what's available, what each skill does and what they cost (often a subtle hint whether they're a basic skill or an advanced or rare one).

For example; Silus just mentioned "Warhead Upgrades" and I decided to check it out because I don't have it - it costs 4m ISK and adds 2% to missile damage.  Right now it's cheaper for me to just train skills like Standard Missiles and Heavy Missiles because they add 5% damage to their own missile class (and I already have them).


Electronics (Additional fitting CPU)
   I – Targeting (Additional locked targets)
   I – Signature Analysis (Faster target lock speed)
   II - Long Range Targeting (Extra lock range)

Engineering (Additional fitting PG)
   I – Energy Systems Operation (Faster cap recharge)
   II – Energy Grid Upgrades (Reduces energy upgrade CPU cost)
      req. Science I
   III – Energy Management (Additional cap)

   I – Shield Operation (Faster shield recharge)

   II - Shield Upgrades (Reduces shield upgrade PG cost)
      req. Science I
   III – Shield Management (Additional shield points)

   I - Shield Compensation (Shield boosters use less cap)
      req. Shield Operations III
   IV – Tactical Shield Manipulation (Active Hardeners / Reduce damage bypassing shield)

Gunnery (Improved turret RoF)
   II – Controlled Bursts (Turrets use less cap)
   II – Motion Prediction (Improved turrets tracking)
   II – Rapid Firing (Improved turret RoF)
   II – Sharpshooter (Improved optimal turret range)
   II – Weapon Upgrades (Reduces weapon CPU cost)

Mechanic (Additional structure points)
   I – Hull Upgrades (Additional armor points)
   I – Repair Systems (Repair units cycle faster)

Missile Launcher Operation (Improved launcher RoF)
   II – Standard Missiles (Improved light missile damage)
   I – Missile Bombardment (Improved missile flight time)
   II – Rapid Launch (Improved missile RoF)
   II – Target Navigation Predication (Improved missile damage vs fast targets)
   III – Missile Projection (Improved missile speed)
   
   III - Heavy Missiles (Improved heavy missile damage)
      req. Standard Missiles III

Navigation (Faster base speed)
   I – Afterburner (AB / AB cycles slower)
   I – Warp Drive Operation (Reduces warp drive cap usage)
   II – Evasive Manoeuvring (Increased agility)
   II – Fuel Conservation (Reduces AB cap usage)
      req. Afterburner II
   III – Acceleration Control (Increased AB speed bonus)

   IV – High Speed Manoeuvring (MWD / Increases MWD speed bonus)
   
Social (Increases standing increases)
   III – Connections (Boosts standing with positive agents / corp / faction)
   I – Negotiation (Improves agent payouts)
   II – Diplomacy (Raises standing with negative agents / corp / faction)

Learning (Improves all stats)
   Analytical Mind (+1 intelligence/level)
   Instant Recall (+1 memory/level)
   Iron Will (+1 will/level)
   Spatial Awareness (+1 perception/level)
   Empathy (+1 charisma/level)

Is there an "order" in which one should pursue the trees?

The painful but efficient way is to do all the learning skills first (save charisma- not a lot of skills need it, so it can be ignored or done at leisure). Since Int and Mem are the prereqs for all the other learning skills (as well as many of the other skills), those should be finished first. If you have the money, you would take Int and Men to advanced IV, take Learning to V, then work on Willpower and Perception.

Realistically, you aren't going to be able to do that unless you have someone feeding you ISK (each advanced learning skill book is 4.5M). I would suggest taking all the basic learning skills to 4, then branch out and work on the basic ship support skills- Engineering, Electronics, Navigation, etc. Throw some Gunnery skills (and/or missile skills, if you use them), and get yourself into the top class of frigate for whatever race of ships you have chosen. While you are working on your skills, run missions and rat (or mine) for money. Eventually you will be able to afford a cruiser; once you get into a cruiser and start doing low sec ratting and level II missions the advanced learning skills will be more affordable.

I followed roughly this same path- I took a long hiatus from learning skills after Int, Mem, and Learning were as far as I wanted to take them and worked on my other skills. I am getting ready to move to BCs or Intys or BSs soon, so I decided to finish all my advanced learning before I changed ship classes. Should be done in less than a week.

Now, I have to figure out how to afford a new ship...

One of the best ways to figure out which skills you should train as a priority is to play the game & generally have fun.

It's pretty hard to play and not get a feel for what would help you enjoy the game more (whether that's dealing more damage, your shields lasting longer, being able to haul more cargo, mine more ore per minute etc), from there it's just a case of browsing the market and working out which skill will scratch your particular itch...

I'm new, but I think some general advice would be not to fall into the min-max mentality all the time. Playing the game and learning what is fun will generally direct what skills to start working.

For example: I noticed I was taking too much damage, so I wanted to increase my armor. I had to go figure out what skills would allow me to fit extra armor or armor repairs modules.

Then, when I bought my new ship, I couldn't fit 3 lasers because I was having power grid shortages. So, I started working on the appropriate skills.

I don't care too much if I do things in the wrong order. I've burned out on so many games, I just want some freaking fun. I don't have to be uber.

Uber toast to me is usually of the Cinnamon-n-Sugar variety.

An excellent way to do it in the beginning, but once your most of your skills start hitting 5 days minimum training time, a little planning can save a lot of time  :-)

That's for sure. I spent the first few days mostly training learning and attribute skills while I worked out the basics -- but would stop them if I needed to learn something to outfit a new goodie, or felt I needed bonuses with shields or whatnot.

I've recently had to train the advanced perception skill -- I gimped myself in character creation -- because training most of the gunnery skills was killing me. I did that in bursts, until I was scheduled to be gone a few weeks (got level 5 then).

Mostly I focus on whatever I either need or find cool, and default to learning skills or attribute skills when I don't have anything pressing. A good mix of fun/good investment. Since I'm Gallente, I focused a lot on drones and hybrid-style gunnery, but have dabbled in skills all over the place as I need them (Anchoring when I wanted to use Secure cans, Industrials when I was playing more with mining,e tc).

I'm still in a Frig because of that dabbling philosophy -- but I've also enjoyed the hell out of myself, and given I'm skilling up stuff before I move to a Vexxor rather than after I get the boat, I figure it'll work out in the end. (I have enough for the hull, and most of the modules I'll load I already have. I just don't have enough cash on hand for peace of mind....).

Mainly I'm just there to have fun. I'd min/max if I was grinding up an alt for some specific purpose, but mainly I take skills based on what interests me.

[quote="Raging Turtle]but once your most of your skills start hitting 5 days minimum training time, a little planning can save a lot of time  [/quote]
No doubt. The best way I've found to learn stuff is to look at not only the item/ability I want, but anything else that may support for. I didn't do this in the beginning. I had a nice linear skill path to Assault Frigate that I would be finishing just about now. I am soooo glad I didn't do that though, as I'd be ultra gimped. If not for having flown around in various Rifters for awhile doing many things, and trying a number of different things on my Cruiser, I'd have no idea what I really wanted to do.

Basically though, if I see a skill I only want to unlock to try something out, I'll take it to Level 1 only. If I plan to use it at all thereafter, I'll hit whatever level I can achieve 24 hours after getting the skill (it's usually Level 3). I'll take it to 4 if doing so is really useful (like using 10% less Capacitor with an AB), Level 5 if it's an absolute requirement to unlock something else or either if I'm traveling for a few days :)

Another thing to watch for is to check the reqs on the item/ship you want to use and not make assumptions.

(cue spooky/ominous music)

I was all excited about Interdictors and got the skill all trained and ready to go. Then I discovered that to fly an Interdictor >>ship<< meant I also needed to have the Destroyers skill at level 5, which I do not.

Back to BattleCruiser V for me.

Happens to the best of us.

Thx folks - the advice has been really paying off.  It does seem there is a min time though where learning skills hit dramatic dimishing returns.

So what's the trick with Worlds Collide?  I went in there feeling pretty butch and got sent back in a tomato can.

Mmmm veggie soup stock!

This is the one with the multiple acceleration gates, where you have to rescue the crew of that damaged Heron, right?  There are three "levels" to this fight.  You jump in and there are two gates, each one is guarded by a different faction.  Choose either one, go through the gate, and you'll come into the second area.  The second area has another acceleration gate which takes you to the third area, where the Heron is, but you can't evac the crew until you've dealt with the enemies (I think).  The second area, in my experience, is where the toughest fighting goes on.

There's two ways I've heard to beat it:

1- Fight it out.  My preferred way.  You'll need something fairly buff, preferably that can handle enemies at close and medium range (since you're coming out of warp right into the middle of a cloud of them).  Can't take anything larger than a frig, though.  There are a TON of enemies here, which means a lot of money if you go this route.  You may well have to warp out mid-fight to repair (something you don't normally have to do for most L1 missions), so it might take a bit of time, but you should still be able to get it done in time to get the bonus if you're reasonably good at close-range fighting.

2- Run.  None of the gates, (I think), are locked.  I'm pretty sure that the second gate (the one that leads into the final area) is unlocked, anyway.  You can just jump in and make a beeline to the third area, fight the guys there (kind of difficult, but easier than the earlier fights, probably) grab the crew, and run back to turn in the quest.  You'll want afterburners, obviously, and probably some defensive gear (hardeners and repair gear) to ensure that you get to the gate in one piece.

The second part of Worlds Collide is indeed the tough one.  Either path leads you into the center of several groups of ships.   Fighting right off gets me killed or chased off.  What has worked best in the past is heading for the emptiest space I can see, and trying to slag anything between me and it.  Once clear of the base area, I polish off whatever chased me, and then go back to hit the remaining ships.   Remember that if you orbit, it is likely to aggro some other bunch of ships.

The third area is pretty much cake, the last time I did it the oppositionwas all newbie frigates.

Running through the second area needs speed and a good tanlk, but some swear by that method.

Exactly as above, the second gate is definetly unlocked, because I completed this one on Sunday.

Just clear the cluster near the gate and warp out. Similarly in the research lab area, just clear the group around the heron, you don't need to kill anything specific to rescue the team, the heron is just a glorified cargo container.

You should be able to complete the whole operation in under 14 minutes, because that's how long I had before the server was shutting doesn for the umpteenth time last weekend.

The trickiest thing about the mission seemed to be that the frigate groups are close together, so if you start orbiting or get too close, you'll probably aggro more than one set at a time.

Tjhx all - yeah I tried running both times and *almost* made the second gate.

Conceptual question: are complexes instances?  When you say warp out does that mean I could first rubout out a few, warp back to the station and then return to the complex with no respawning of the hostiles?

Yup. Although be warned, enemies DO respawn if you take too long, and there are also missions with infinte spawns.

When going into combat, always have an out of system destination set.  Then pick a point (I generally go with 50% armor remaining) and when you get down to it, hit Autopilot to warp out ASAP. (remember that you'll have to turn ship and run up to warp before actually escaping) Cut autopilot before you jump.  Recover you shields and armor, and head back to the first gate.  There will be respawns, but you can wear them down if you keep at it.

If you miss the bonus window, consider farming the first area once a day, then completing the mission.  Also, remember that you can keep mission cargo in your hanger, and turn it in when you are ready to end the mission.

Ok, so I finally got interested enough to grab a trial for Eve, which I haven't played since (open?) beta.  Doing fairly well at only 36h in - due to pick up my Merlin in about an hour once Frigate 3 rolls up.  About a million in the bank, so money isn't a problem right now.  Problem is that it seems rather dull, so I'm going to toss this out and ask whether I'm missing something.  Seems like the only things to do are:

1) Mine.  Pretty much exactly what you would expect if you were a UO miner.
2) Warp between asteroid fields and look for pirates to pop.
3) Do missions, which are almost all courier.  Click destination, click autopilot, and come back in 10-20 min.  Or keep an eye out whenever you drop out of warp in < 0.5 space incase there are PKs.
   3a) Do a mission where you kill pirates.

I have no illusions about PvP - I'm guessing it would be months before I'd get the skills to pilot a good class of ship somewhat competantly.  While I like how the cost curve keeps most players from "having" to have Titans (like how UO kept people, even most 'pro' PKs using GM gear), it's still a good ways to getting a good Battlecruiser or such.  So what else might be around the corner that I'm missing?

Well, for missions you're using an agent who gives mostly courrier missions. That'd bore anyone to tears.  Try finding a "security" or "internal security" agent.  90% of their missions are of the combat type rather than courrier.. makes life much better.  There's a chart somewhere in these threads that tells you what mission type each agent type gives.

As for the rest, yeah that's about it to EvE.  It's a game that's very much about the people you're not only chatting with, but grouped with.  Solo it can get incredibly boring very fast which is why I usally only last an hour or so online. 

Most of the other guys aren't getting online until 11pm my time or ~1-2pm on the weekends (when I'm busy taking care of the house) so I don't get in on the fun stuff, ever.

Good questions that I will be looking for some of the more "seasoned" players to respond to.

However, with respect to your #3 and 3a -- these are highly dependant on the type of agents you are talking to. If you are taking to "Distribution" agents, then you will get more courier jobs. If you are talking to "Security" agents then you will get more kill tasks.

Heh, I've only been playing since Feb, not sure if that counts as "seasoned" or not. We have problems with newb pirates (BI) and experienced pirates (UWOF). We're not always fighting guys in T2 gear. Suicide frigates with scramblers are still one of our group battle mainstays.

For me, I guess I'm having fun planning out how I'm going to fit a ship to guard our hemo miners in lowsec when there's a wardec on. That, and figuring out how to make the corp in general stronger so we roll over all opposition.  :-D

I would just like to point out that there are no instances in EVE.  You could very well find someone else in your mission area, but it doesn't happen often for some reason.

Roac, there's a way to create your character so you start with racial frig 4. I'd make a new guy, create him with frig 4 for whichever race you picked, then escrow a shitty item for 1 million dollars. (Dock, missions button, escrow)

Then go to your current guy who has a million and claim that escrow. I don't think trial characters can toss money around so that should be a way around it.

Anyways, you're kind of correct in your assement, but you're not really. A year ago I'd say that's perfectly correct.

Here's an idea for things you can do -

Restart a char, get the money transferred. Get that merlin.
Train up rockets to a decent level.
Look up Propulsion Jamming and get the pre-reqs for that and then train Prop Jamming to 1.
Buy a warp scrambler, fit it on your merlin.
Warp from belt to belt looking for people doing missions. When you find someone killing NPCs and there are yellow icon cargo containers to loot, select the guy, hit info and see which ship he's flying. If it's something shitty like a bantam, put him out of his misery.

Click on his picture to see how old he is. If he's more than, say, 2 months old chances are he know's what's up. If he's younger than that, select that yellow icon cargo container again and click 'warp to'. You have to be 150km from the object you want to warp to, so keep that in mind. Maybe warp to the belts at 100k and see what's happening.

As soon as you open that cargo container and steal the shitty loot from it, you'll start flashing red to him. People will do 1 of 3 things.

1) they think that you can attack them and they'll immediately warp away
2) they think that you can attack them, so they lock you and immediately open fire, thinking that they should get the jump on you since you've not locked them yet
3) pause for a few seconds, then warp to a station and get a better ship and come back out and waste you.

You'll have a 15 minute aggression timer to whoever you loot. If he's in a corp, that means you're 'gray' to his whole corp. (this might not be 100% correct - it might have to be a corp member AND ganged at the time you stole from the can - I forget)

As far as PVPing goes, if you can fit a scrambler you can help. Search the market for microwarp drives (MWDs) and look at the pre reqs for that. it takes a lot more than Prop Jamming, but it's doable. That'll make your shitty frig go pretty fast, so you can get to enemies quickly and prevent them from warping away.

I've kinda rambled so I'll end here, but if you want to get to the basics, yeah you can just mine or do missions and that's it. UO at the very basic level was killing monsters or playing dolls in your house. Stuff isn't fun if you don't figure it out.

Nija always gives good descriptions, but I think the summary is that you should interact with other people as soon as possible.  Your pals or enemies, doesn't matter.  Even mining ops can be fun in a gang.  You never know when some ninja-looting alt will show up. ;-)

Oh Nija, you are now my mentor. Tell me more! This sounds like the palm sweating pulse pounding that i have been looking for...

Warping belt to belt... in <0.5? Where would you find people doing missions where you won't irritate the local constabulatory? Is your suggestion frigates so you don't look too dangerous?

Jita is the place to be. Caldari space is packed. Most places 1-2 hops out from Jita will have 100-200 people in local, with Jit having 400ish most hours of the day.

I like the incursus for this kind of crap. Neutron blasters with as much dmg bonus as you can have. If you can get friendly with some pirates see if anyone well sell you a set of 'mission instas'. So you can warp around to where missions spawn and make it easier. It's not too often you'll find people with missions in belts, but it happens.

Here's another idea for something to do.

Lowsec rat spawns include frigates. As a cruiser pilot, I could use a frigate or two in my gang to take out frigs that slip past my guns. If we get some miners in the gang, we can clear out the belts so the mining can continue unharassed. Normal corp practice is to give guards a share of the ore mined. The corp buy ores and minerals at a pretty good price, so there's always a buyer for your unrefined ore. Getting mining income plus rat bounties means you can clear a lot of isk per hour. Plus, when you do that, it helps the corp.

Join the F13 chat and get yourself in Kor-Azor and say you're available for ratting or guard duty. If I'm on, I'll definitely gang you and we'll blow stuff up.

I am in the Neesher area when I am on and I am always more intestested in helping out than just another agent mission.

Well I did Worlds Collide. Turned out to be pretty easy.

Using a Slasher with an afterburner and shield booster:

gate 1: entered without being fired upon
gate 2: ran for the gate, took about 4 misslies, the booster handled that
gate 3: 20 or so low level fighters that took a few hits each. Was paniced there for a sec till I relzies how crap they were.

I got the same misson from another agent 2 missons later, going to try it again and just ran through the whole thing and not fire anything. 'Corse you miss out on the bounties doing that, but the misson pays 200,000 or so.

They aren't instances, but they don't respawn in the same place immeadiately and the sky is really fucking big.


afaik

DId it twice again, the first time...I died. Don't take the right hand gate, take the left one! Did it with my Rifter, which is slower than than my dead Slasher. Just run through gates 1 and 2, fight the crappy ships at gate 3 for the bounties.

My first ship loss too.

I run through Worlds Collide very easily in a Punisher.

1x Afterburner
1x 100mm Rolled Tungsten Plate
1x Energized Adaptive Nanofiber
1x Small Armor Reparier

Definitely take the left gate at first.

I've run World Collide in a Kestrel

Didnt take the Guristas gate!

Had to warp out and repair armour after clearing the other gate

Only had to engage 2 groups in the second stage (the group you warp in on and the group at the exit gate)

Rats in the final stage came at me piecemeail and weren't a problem.

My Kestrel was chum for the sharks (although I have not tried it since I added some skillz). So, on Addryc's suggestion, I bought a Slasher and fitted an AB on it to run shrieking into the night. Completed it with no problems ever since.

And that is the story of how my Slasher came to be named -- Avid Hawk is my Hero.

Zipper Zee

I find I like kill tasks a lot more now that I have a Punisher.

I was all worked up and worried about Worlds Collide but it seemed really easy when I did it for the first time last night?  I took the left gate, fought the two that I spawned on top of (was down to about 70% shields), then fought the three or four that were between me and the next gate.  Never really in danger, I felt.

I was in a Merlin, with 2x125mm railguns and 2x standard missile launchers, although one of the former was offline since I had the afterburner online after everyone saying sprinting might be needed.  Shield booster and 100mm armour plating, the latter never needed as it turned out.  Skills are about 20 days' worth, but mainly in learning with level 4 engineering for power, lvl 4 frigate, 3 command, and the rest just 1 & 2 in gunnery, navigation/evasion stuff and missiles.

I think I'd qualify for and take defender missiles next time, since the bulk of the middle section damage seemed to be coming from their missiles.  Not that I've used defenders yet, so I dunno how good they are, but I'd have a shot at clearing the middle room, anyway.

There was a gate to some battle area or something in the last room, wassat?  Back to the middle area?

Think it takes you right back to the start (the 2 gate choice)

quick noob question:

Learning/stats decreases the time it takes to get through the skill points of a required skill, correct? it doesn't actually *reduce* the skill points of the skill, thus paying later dividends on cheaper clones, etc... My only penalty for not doing learning first is the loss of learning reduction (I.E. time) to the skills I train before it, correct?

Yes, I realize it is a substantial sum, but i've trained level 1 or 2 of critical skills so I can equip the bare minimum (missle launcher operation II, standard missle operation I, etc.) on my ship and start ratting... I just am hoping it doesn't gimp me too bad and wanted to make sure.

Yes, that is my understanding.

Attributes alter the speed at which you gain points for a particular skill, not point totals.

I wondered the same thing, and looked at the points to level 3 of two level two, rank 1 skills with different attributes at dramatically different levels on my toon (social and afterburner).  Both were at 1415 and needed 8000 for the next level.  Ergo the attributes must act as a multiplier to point accrual.

That's correct.  It's also a "Diminishing Returns" situation, going from 20 to 21 doesn't make as much of a difference as going 10 to 11, so over the long haul you can't gimp yourself too badly no matter how you assign your points at character creation.  That being said, when you get into the late game a few percentage points of skill point gain speed can make a difference of days on the incredibly high-multiplier skills you need for Dreadnoughts and up, so a low Perception or Willpower will become annoying (but not crippling).  And low Int/Memory is equally annoying for the capital ship supporting skills.  On the plus side, the cost of +4 and +5  implants has come way down lately.

There are no really high-multiplier Trade skills, so even if you're wanting to build those up the mid-teens is as much as you need.

--Dave (Tycoon Level 3)

Wasn't MahrinSkel an SC drone? :)

I've been wondering for quite some time. Now I remember where I heard that name before.

Thank you. :-D

Morat would remember Mahrin Skel -- although he wouldn't know he was SC.

I just got Worlds Collide (as my third agent mission).  It was a challenge but I managed to fight through it with just over 2 days worth of skills.

My setup was:

Gallente Incursus
3x 150mm Railgun I (usually I only had 2 of these powered up)
1x 1MN Afterburner (put this offline to power up the third railgun if not in danger)
1x Shield Extender I
1x Shield Booster I
1x Small Armor Repairer I (offline unless I needed to repair)

I loaded the railguns with Iridium Charges.

The first "room" was really easy.  Approach a group and then at 18km turn around and move away with "keep at distance 18km".  Blast away with the rails until everyone is dead then turn around and pick up phat lewt.  There's a guy in there that has a 45k bounty and he respawned on for a second kill.  He will repair his armor quite a lot but with 3 rails up you should be able to make quick work of him.

The second "room" is definitely the hard one.  The moment you finish warping in look for the biggest patch of open space, hit your afterburners and charge to it.  You should have aggro.  Once you are clear of the main complex turn around and fight the 5 or so guys you have on your tail.  Use "keep at distance 18km".  Some of these guys can probably hit you but will do very little damage.  You should be able to turn your AB off and use your capacitor to boost shields to keep from taking any armor damage.  At this point you can either charge the gate or you can try to clean up the rest of the guys.  In my version of the mission the rest of the pirates here were pretty easy except for "diviners" which were able to snare me (that was a web I take it?) if I let them get to close.  If you see yourself suddenly going very slow just warp out and come back as these guys can pack a pretty good punch if you let them close enough.  I didn't finish all of these I just led them off away from the gate and then charged to the Research Outpost Gate.

The research outpost is very easy.  You should have no problem killing the pirates here.  They all go down very quickly.  The only risk is that you may get swarmed and so you will probably want to AB away from the main group at first before turning around and shooting.

I looted one compontent that sold for 400k and made 1mill off the total mission (of which only 120k was the actual mission payment).  A very nice cash infusion for only being 3 days into the game (made up for pulling a charisma implant on the tutorial :P).  So I highly recommend trying to fight through this mission if you can.