f13.net

Developer Diary: Allan "Orion" Maki
Friends Don't Let Friends Tank Balrogs*

Allan "Orion" Maki hails from parts unknown. He spent his youth cradled in the company of the Knights of Ni and has no problem saying "Ni" to old women or Floon Beetle. Schooled by life, he rescued Princess Peach, discovered Samus Aran's identity and saved Zelda – all before the age of sixteen. By twenty, he had crumbled the Roman Empire, sailed along the Spanish Main and shot the Red Baron out of the sky.

After many failed attempts at becoming the uncontested ruler of the universe, he accepted the position of OCR on a little game named Asheron's Call. Soon after, he moved into a role as designer finishing his tenure on the project as the Lead Designer, before moving to DDO and finally to LOTRO, where he now serves as a Content Designer. His favorite color is purple – royal purple not lilac, though lilacs smell nice in spring – his favorite movie of all time is Citizen Kane and he wears a size 10 ½ shoe.

 
 

To solo or not to solo, that is the question. Is it nobler to suffer the sling stones and arrows of thine enemy whilst standing amongst his troops, without the sturdy shield or trusty arms of friends; or, is it best to form a wall of shields, linked by devotion and gilded by strength, to bolster the focus of my blade?


It's a good question. It's a hard question. It's a question with many answers.


It seems whenever you set out to design a massively multiplayer online game one question – one sticky, important question – finds its way into the discussions of designers and fans. This question draws hard battle lines, across which terrible words are exchanged, mothers' names are dragged through the mud, pets are sacrificed on altars of dark forces and hyperbole becomes the ultimate weapon of choice. It is a question that, at its very core, is somewhat of an oxymoron: 'Will your massively-multiplayer game support solo play?'


Different games have taken different approaches: some games have evoked social play through deep crafting systems, player-versus-player conflict, and group-centric endgame content. Other games have allowed extremely skilled solo players to become self-sufficient gods unto themselves. As with any organic entity – make no mistake, MMOs are organic entities – each MMO and the genre as a whole have evolved over time to incorporate the different personalities of players. Some players desire to detach themselves completely from the real world when playing their games, becoming lost in the actions of their avatars and disassociating themselves from human contact altogether. Others become the social butterfly that they cannot be in the 'real world.' Play styles are as varied as the number of players in the game world, and we as designers must do our best to accommodate them all.  However, we are not super-human, nor are we graced with an endless amount of resources or time with which to construct our games. Instead, we have windows of opportunity to glimpse the current mood and mindset of our fans and determine the course of the single question, 'Can I solo in your game?'



A Prelude to an Answer


So you want to know something about The Lord of the Rings Online™: Shadows of Angmar™. Excellent! If only I could deliver all of the juicy information which you seek! How wondrous would the outpouring of gratitude be, and how greater still the rancor that followed, as shortcomings and disagreements were debated until the coming of the Last Battle!


(Translation: before I was a developer, I was an MMO fan first, then an Online Community Rep. Be nice to Patience!)


If I could do that I would, but I cannot. NobOrBob and his Balrog, Snuggles, keep our darkest secrets, er, secret. What I can do, however, is give you a glimpse of LOTRO from a great height, as if borne by a Great Eagle.


First, we are building a world. Not just any world, mind you; we are building Middle-earth, perhaps the most beloved, history-filled, and well-described fictional world to exist, ever. There are books written about the books and books written about the books about the books, and books about – well, you get the picture. We need to get the story right. We need to be conscious of the story and world in every choice we make; slip once and there'll be a Nazgûl hot on our trails (not an envious position for one to be in, I fear).


Second, we must appease the millions of Tolkien fans who have lived, breathed, and dreamt about this opportunity since the words "Middle-earth" and "Online" were first uttered in the same sentence.


So, getting back to the matter at hand: here's an anecdote relevant to this topic. Tolkien's work shows that soloing is bad. Everyone who solos, dies. Boromir? Dead. Gollum? Dead. Frodo? Would have died but Sam wouldn't let that n00b solo. Okay, I am only mostly correct...but the books do set the precedent that if you're not a Wizard and you try to solo the most difficult monsters, you die. So, what does that mean for the game?


Only Elves and Wizards Can Solo!


Man! I knew that would keep you reading! Luckily, it's not true.


The following is a definitive statement: In The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar, you will find solo adventures throughout the world.


Yes, there are solo quests. Yes, there is solo content.


Bread and Butter and Scones and Biscuits and...


Okay. You'll have solo quests in the game. I bet they're all delivery quests.


Wrong!


At the heart of The Lord of the Rings Online™: Shadows of Angmar™ lies our solo quests and content. Yes, an epic tale is taking place in Middle-earth. The world is changing and not for the better, but that story is not at the heart of every matter that needs doing in the world. Middle-earth is evolving and even the smallest things you do as a character can impact someone, somewhere; they may even affect people you haven't met. News of your deeds will spread, and your name may become synonymous with "hero" all throughout Middle-earth. This is not to say that the world will change in an immediately perceptible way, but you will be sure to catch someone's eye.


Not all quests will have you fetch and grab, or kill and collect. Some may have you solving riddles for sporting souls engaged in a battle of wits, or scouting enemy encampments to assess their threat and strength. Perhaps you'll need to face a ravaged land where Orcs make their way through the devastated wilderness only to succumb to your skill! That story is your own, and your reward is the adulation of figures who revere you and all you have done.


This is only the beginning.


Fellowship Play


So what about playing in Fellowships?


Yes, there will be Fellowship quests. Yes, there will be Fellowship content.


At the heart of Tolkien's work is an underlying theme: The people you can trust in life are your friends. They lift you up when you fall, they bolster you when you are weak, and they protect you when you are unguarded. They are, without a doubt, the most important thing in the world. You will have moments that require the assistance of your friends to succeed.


Fellowships are what drive epic moments. When something truly momentous is about to occur, you will know and you will need help. People will warn you when these moments are at hand; they hate to see their heroes fall! They know if the strength of one hero is great, so too must be the combined strength of many. In these moments, you will face truly great foes or beasts of the dark – and you shouldn't try to face them alone.


What about instances?


Will there be instances in LOTRO?


Instancing, as a topic of interest, has seen many discussions amongst industry insiders and fans, and certainly has been the topic of discussion on our development team. Opinions vary wildly and often times form a sort of council of Elrond: some of us think that the instance is a tool by which we can further the cause of our games, and others worry about the impact of instancing on social play and the sense of a shared, living world. In the end, we must make decisions that are beneficial to the greater whole. Yes, there will be instances. Yes, there will be solo instances. Yes, there will be fellowship instances.


Instances allow for deviation from standard game play. (After reading this sentence a couple of times, I realized that it can be very frightening when presented without context.) [And this time, not just because of grammatical errors. :) –NobOrBob] Contextually speaking, instanced spaces provide designers a ball of clay from which we can sculpt highly detailed encounters, making the world ever more alive for players. They pull from the behaviors of the quest system, world interaction, and skill focus or group interaction to provide a challenging situation for players. They do not introduce new game mechanics; instead, they utilize existing game mechanics outside of the traditional "quest system" to highlight class roles and class skills to provide these challenges. In essence, instances allow designers to create awe-inspiring moments and events that give players a feeling of accomplishment. To take advantage of this we are constructing different types of instances.


Perhaps a short explanation of how we are using instances will ease tension over the word. In LOTRO we are using instances in three distinct ways:

The first is as a highly sculpted solo experience. These instances allow the player to learn more about characters, motivations, and story. These instances often introduce key individuals or areas of the game, and at times familiar faces from the books, allowing players to learn more about an important figure or landmark.
The second is a sculpted Fellowship instance that furthers the many chapters of the Shadows of Angmar. These instances provide an intricate web-work of storyline, tying into previous chapters and moments for all players following the main story path.
The third type of instance is a shared Fellowship instance that provides encapsulated story to feed the larger whole. While similar in some ways, instance types two and three are still very different and highlighted below.

To explain the highly sculpted solo experience further, I'll provide a hypothetical example. A denizen of Middle-earth may request assistance from a player on a very dangerous mission. Perhaps he requires escort through a stretch of land known to harbor Men of dubious persuasion. He entreats the player to lead him and his pony through this stretch of land. Along the way, the character reveals more information about himself and others within his hometown while under assault from bands of evil Men. Whatever the goal, the steps to assist him/her in finding their way through the encounter are clear to the player.


An example of the second type of instancing, the sculpted Fellowship model, provides a furthering of the story told to every player character:  the story of Angmar, and the forces at work in the north where once the Witch-king ruled. These "bookends" act much the same way as the previous example, but they require groups to defeat the difficult encounters and dangerous foes lurking in the shadows. These stylized moments provide insight and information about the great evil lurking in the north that threatens to join forces with Sauron, thwart the Fellowship, and overrun all of Middle-earth.


The last type of instance is an open Fellowship model. Open Fellowship means that there is no over-riding quest necessary to enter the instance spaces. They further the story of Angmar in smaller ways than the previous example, focusing on the story of their section of the world. There are no quests assisting you or guiding you.  Foes may require a particular class, skill or set of abilities to defeat; we are being careful to ensure overlap. Encounters within the instance will require you to think your way through them, using your wits to solve puzzles and learn different patterns and behaviors to succeed. These spaces feature a critical path to find the primary foe, and secondary paths to lesser foes. They cover wider level spreads to allow for re-playability and continued advancement. While there are no quests that guide you through these spaces, it is possible that quests will direct you into these spaces. The risks within are high; but then again, so are the rewards.


Again, instances are being developed to support both solo and fellowship play behavior. If you feel that you can brave a space alone, you can try...but don't say we didn't warn you!


Raids & Something Else


Will there be raids in Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar?


At this time, the answer is no.


Does this mean that raids will never find their way into LOTRO? Not at all, raids are truly a different topic requiring their own discussion.


While there are currently no plans to incorporate raids into LOTRO, there is one more type of hybrid content style. What makes a hybrid content style, you ask? Some areas of the world require a group effort to defeat foes; after all Fellowships are at the core of the world, are they not? These areas will be difficult but survivable, and will likely feature some of the most difficult enemies in Middle-earth.


LOOT!


Some MMOs turn instance spaces into the only avenue to garner the greatest wealth available in the game. This is not the case with Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar.


That is all I have to say on the subject now.


In Closing


Giving the player the ability to make changes and feel as though they have an impact on the world around them is an important focus of the content we are designing in LOTRO. As you begin the game, you experience this in solo encounters, but as you grow the world grows with you. Suddenly those bands of roving Orcs you've defeated have friends, of the heavily-armed and extra-cunning variety. When you find yourself in those moments, it's a good thing to have a friend within earshot of your Horn. (Ask Boromir -- soloing sucks when you are facing an army.)


* This title in no way confirms that there is actually a Balrog in the game, or if there were, that you would be able to tank it – with or without friends! Those responsible for this title have been shot.

We learned a lot from AC1!

That is literally the most annoying thing I have EVER skimmed through and decided it wasn't worth my time to read.

I declare this the fellowship of the g-string.

I debated whether or not it was worth saying this. I came to the conclusion that it's not, but I feel morally obligated to say it anyway.

Maki is one of the good guys at Turbine, and he always has been. Critique of his writing style is fair play, but he is not one of the Problems. The company is better for having him.

Carry on, gentlemen.

Maki is one of the good guys at Turbine, and he always has been. Critique of his writing style is fair play, but he is not one of the Problems. The company is better for having him.

I wish someone would make ... (an) MMOG that would punish anyone who work together.

See every MMOG ever made. Hell is other people.

I see nothing of interest here.

I wish someone would make a soloist only MMOG that would punish anyone who work together.  That way the soloists will have a game to play and quit trying reverse engineer multiplayer games into single player games.

Yes, I went there, want to fight about it?

And we hang out with other people by our own choice, we must like hell.

I see nothing of interest here.

I wish someone would make a soloist only MMOG that would punish anyone who work together.  That way the soloists will have a game to play and quit trying reverse engineer multiplayer games into single player games.

Yes, I went there, want to fight about it?

I only just went to the first page of that linked thread. (http://forums.lotro.turbine.com/showthread.php?t=45310&page=1&pp=15)  Judging by the number of worthless fanbois saying "Great dev diary" and "When can I pre-order" they are going to have next to no honest feedback about the game during testing.  I really hope they have learned to seek out constructive criticism instead of bathing in sycophantic comments from a tiny minority who inexplicably think they can do no wrong.

We'll see if Callandryll still talks to us when LOTRO goes into beta. If he does, he'll get some constructive feedback.

One thing I do have to mention though is the concept of listening to players. I read a lot of posts from people (on these very forums sometimes) who say developers listen too much to players. At the same time, I see people (some of them the very same people who have made the previous comment in the past) talking to Raph on the SWG thread about how they believe the SWG players aren't being listened to enough. From my perspective, you can't have it both ways.

I have my own thoughts on the topic, having worked at places where feedback was used in a good way and in some places where it wasn't. So, not to get off topic, but who do you guys think we *should* listen to.  And "you shoud listen to me" isn't an answer. :)

Someone told me that Patton said something similar to this once, but I can't find the exact quote.  It works well here:  The soldiers in the field are always reporting disaster, a General's job is to determine when those reports are real.

You have to do both, listen to the customer and ignore the customer.  The hard part of your job, and the reason you are paid to do it, is you have to figure out the right time to do each of those things.

Funny enough, I use almost the same analogy when talking to new people we hire in OCR here. So yea, that's true. The problem is, the part of the community you choose to disagree with (and hence, ignore) doesn't like it much. :)

Style aside, some of it does sound interesting.  Quests that seem to give you hints on follow up quests, spying quests, story lines.  Of course if the implementation is a yellow exclamation point with a toggle for NPC text speed, then it isn't.

Is it not lost on anyone that that post was not for anyone but fanbois? Remember that Lord of the Rings is a story, with a lot of freakin' words. How many of you all got through the books the first time you read them? Didn't you skip a few of the songs?

Orion is talking to people who love that sort of verbose narrative. So him typing that way is expected.

One thing I do have to mention though is the concept of listening to players. I read a lot of posts from people (on these very forums sometimes) who say developers listen too much to players. At the same time, I see people (some of them the very same people who have made the previous comment in the past) talking to Raph on the SWG thread about how they believe the SWG players aren't being listened to enough. From my perspective, you can't have it both ways.

I have my own thoughts on the topic, having worked at places where feedback was used in a good way and in some places where it wasn't. So, not to get off topic, but who do you guys think we *should* listen to.  And "you should listen to me" isn't an answer. :)

Cal, it's real simple. You listen to the people who can put together cogent posts and you ignore the real fucking idiots.

Generally speaking, you'll know the difference real quick.

sometimes its not as much about feedback as it is helping people understand

The last point is actually the one that is most often overlooked and it's a LOT of the reason updates to a game can go horribly wrong. Even if you know your community will resist a change, if you as the developer truly believe it is what is best for the game, then you have an obligation to explain the change to the community as early as possible and try to at the very least, help them understand the change even if they don't immediately embrace it. Waiting until the last minute to explain something only delays "hte hate" and in most cases makes it worse.

The community fears change.

If the audience for the article were denizens of this site it would have read, ‘You can solo, ‘nuff said.’

Actually, a lot of people here group - often. It's just that we don't want to group with people not in the community for the most part. As such, soloing MUST be an option. But if the solo stuff scales to groups, all the better. Essentially we solo more because of poor design and dumb motherfuckers.

DDO hit gold a few days ago, a few players are at the maximum level of 10 already.

Oh hell, I'm just kidding about the negativity. With the makers of the fantastically successful Asheron's Call producing an MMORPG based on a generic incarnation of a tabletop game most famous for drawing in the sex-deprived and inspiring that stupid Chick tract, I'm sure the folks at Blizzard are shitting in their moneyhats right about now.

Ten levels are more than enough, too. Everyone knows that the players of games like this care about immersion and roleplay, not racing up to the level cap as quickly as possible and then bitching about being bored. That's why it was a good idea to completely skip any semblance of crafting, housing, or PVP. It's not as if there'll be any catass endgame players to keep entertained.

Hat's off, Turbine. Only you could have figured out that what the MMO market really wants is a level-based game with no levels, and a feature list shorter than Diablo 2. Some people saw a demo trailer that made the combat look fun, therefore I'm completely sure that it'll be so much fun in reality that it'll keep people paying month after month.

I win.

One thing I do have to mention though is the concept of listening to players. I read a lot of posts from people (on these very forums sometimes) who say developers listen too much to players. At the same time, I see people (some of them the very same people who have made the previous comment in the past) talking to Raph on the SWG thread about how they believe the SWG players aren't being listened to enough. From my perspective, you can't have it both ways.

That stuff was garbage

We'll see if Callandryll still talks to us when LOTRO goes into beta. If he does, he'll get some constructive feedback.

One thing I do have to mention though is the concept of listening to players. I read a lot of posts from people (on these very forums sometimes) who say developers listen too much to players. At the same time, I see people (some of them the very same people who have made the previous comment in the past) talking to Raph on the SWG thread about how they believe the SWG players aren't being listened to enough. From my perspective, you can't have it both ways.

A few things I have learned though:

• polls are bad
• petitions are bad
• surveys are dangerous and are often bad (this is mostly because of poor survey design)
• the majority doesn't always rule
• the forums represent more people than one might realize - although it is self-selected
• sometimes its not as much about feedback as it is helping people understand

If the forums represent more than 2% of the actual player base, I'd be surprised. They are the same kind of minority as the raiders.

Perhaps a short explanation of how we are using instances will ease tension over the word. In LOTRO we are using instances in three distinct ways:

The first is as a highly sculpted solo experience.

To explain the highly sculpted solo experience further, I'll provide a hypothetical example. A denizen of Middle-earth may request assistance from a player on a very dangerous mission. Perhaps he requires escort through a stretch of land known to harbor Men of dubious persuasion. He entreats the player to lead him and his pony through this stretch of land. Along the way, the character reveals more information about himself and others within his hometown while under assault from bands of evil Men. Whatever the goal, the steps to assist him/her in finding their way through the encounter are clear to the player.

I have and always will advocate for the removal of any official game forums that are not designed for:

-Bug reports
-Technical issues
-Server boards (complete with guild recruitment sub-board)

Don't host general boards, dont host dev boards and certainly dont host class/race boards.

Let that shit happen on someone else's dime in someone else's playground.  Eventually fansites where the bullshit is pre-filtered will often rise up, because mods on fansites will not tolerate "DEV READ THIS" type shit for very long.

DO NOT EVER post on fansites.  Except f13, and then only in this general sort of way.  Don't ever address some online petition style bullshit, even if you think that the players are 100% right.  The second they get the idea you are listening and that if they petition something and put enough pages on it it deserves to be changed you are screwed.  Then the fucking MMO special interest groups go to work for their pet class/race/item/dungeon and your so swamped in useless BLUE READ THIS style shit that it makes my eyes bleed.

If the dev team isn't smart enough to be able to figure out what is fun and what isn't, then the game is going to suck.  Sure players can point you in the right direction or reveal flaws (ways to bug mob AI, spells with incorrect damage modifiers etc) that you may have missed.  But the players aren't going to tell you how to balance the game, and devs who try to get that sort of info from them just end up breaking the game even more.

If you read the SWG thread and dont see that those poor idiots (or as I have called them in the past diluted fools heh) who are wishing that the SWG devs had just listened to them, rolled the game back to build 12xyz and done blahblahblah are idiots.  Well I just dont know what to say.

EVE forums have been pretty civilized from what I've seen.  But then their CS don't pretend they're 14.

I win.

And we hang out with other people by our own choice, we must like hell.

[regarding EVE forums]
Plus, being forced to post with a character name, and knowing that if you piss off anyone you'll get podded is a good way of enforcing civility.

Plus, being forced to post with a character name, and knowing that if you piss off anyone you'll get podded is a good way of enforcing civility.  WoW's forums would have a chance of being MUCH more civil if you could swarm-kill Joe catass 60 with a few level 10 buddies and destroy all his purple gear.  :evil:

Actually, a lot of people here group - often. It's just that we don't want to group with people not in the community for the most part. As such, soloing MUST be an option. But if the solo stuff scales to groups, all the better. Essentially we solo more because of poor design and dumb motherfuckers.

Plus, being forced to post with a character name, and knowing that if you piss off anyone you'll get podded is a good way of enforcing civility.  WoW's forums would have a chance of being MUCH more civil if you could swarm-kill Joe catass 60 with a few level 10 buddies and destroy all his purple gear.  :evil:

We burned down entire cities if someone made a stupid post on Shadowbane's boards.  We would destroy literally months of work because something pissed us off on the boards.

And those boards were 20 times worse than WoW's every tried to be..

Right. Except it doesn't work in real world.
Arena.net post only on fansite boards and their community is the best in 0.5+mln market (even though it's mainly composed of leet CS tards)
FLS have entire subforum dedicated to dev questions, where they post average of 10 posts/day. There is no flaming, trolling and fighting fanboism (maybe because no one feeds you sweeties), it's one of the best game communities I have ever seen.

And those were our allies!

We burned down entire cities if someone made a stupid post on Shadowbane's boards.  We would destroy literally months of work because something pissed us off on the boards.

And those boards were 20 times worse than WoW's every tried to be..

<butthead>Heh, words.</butthead>

It sounds LotR flavored tofu.
If I was making LtoRO, I would make it a reenactment of the trilogy with very shallow advancement allowing vastly different timelines and ability for Sauron or the Fellowship to win.  Afterwards, I'd award participation points base how difficult of a charactor they choose, major accomplishments in game, and divided in tiers so causals only compete with other causal and catasses with other catasses.  The points are then spent in the next round to buy special chars and items and talents for that round.

The MEO dev post is a bit wordy for the amount of information it provides

And you criticise the writing style of the OQP?  Yes, he's a bad writer, but speaking as a developer myself, there is not always - or even often - a great congruence between the set of good writers and the set of good devs.  So all you whiny types who say "we want more inside knowledge from the devs [we secretly worship]" and then get all Magnolia Fan when it turns out they write better code than English will get exactly what you deserve: disdain and less feedback.

This is a problem with veteran hardcore MMOGers, and some general gamers, in my opinion. Being in the genre so long, some adopt this "I want my information now, and brief!" mindset that is at odds with one of the core tenets of the genre: immersion. It's also at odds with the realities of truly complex game design, but that's an aside.

Uhhh, fuck you very much?

He's not a coder, at least not that I can tell. He's the PR guy. Or he is, at the very least, someone who is charged with putting hype out for the game. The motherfucker should be able to write above the level of Harry Potter/Gay Hobbit Slash Fanfic. I don't give a fuck if he codes the digital equivalent of the Neverending Machine, his output on that story was awful. Turbine should have had Callandryll write it.

Newsflash: Very few MMOG players are roleplayers.

That article is excessively long and still vague. It's not just the length of it, it's that it dodges the whole point and says nothing

Scott J., for instance, is not a coder - he's a db monkey

Newsflash: Very few MMOG players are roleplayers.

-snip-
Even if you know your community will resist a change, if you as the developer truly believe it is what is best for the game, then you have an obligation to explain the change to the community as early as possible and try to at the very least, help them understand the change even if they don't immediately embrace it. Waiting until the last minute to explain something only delays "teh hate" and in most cases makes it worse.

And you criticise the writing style of the OQP?  Yes, he's a bad writer, but speaking as a developer myself, there is not always - or even often - a great congruence between the set of good writers and the set of good devs. 

You could have used a better example since this is wrong. I believe Lum did quite a bit of work with the server-side programming in DAoC. Not just on the DB.

If you were a developer and not a CSR like this guy -- if you were a technical resource writing, testing or deploying code -- you would not impressed by this.  Why?  Because it doesn't state anything clearly enough to give players good expectations from day 0 of the game.  Also (reality check) it's the man's job to write well for a player audience.  He's a CSR/marketing rep.

because it imparted information.

I'm not a CSR, Soln.  I code. Not games, mind, although an area with some striking similarities: complex financial modelling and derivatives trading.  Some C++, some other stuff.

And I thought I was pretty clear on not being impressed by what he wrote.  I just didn't mind, because it imparted information.

If you don't code/design/pr games you are not a developer in the sense it's meant here and in most other game discussion forums.  By your defination, I'm a dev and that's really silly.

Also the currency in Korea is the Won.

I have been lurking through f13, waterthread and back to L:tM.

I just didn't mind, because it imparted information.

I'm not a CSR, Soln.  I code. Not games, mind, although an area with some striking similarities: complex financial modelling and derivatives trading.  Some C++, some other stuff.

And I thought I was pretty clear on not being impressed by what he wrote.  I just didn't mind, because it imparted information.

In 99% of cases, customers should shut the fuck up as long as they are still paying.

I would like to nominate Endie for most aggravating new poster.

I don't find him infuriating. Just a little on the crazy side.

You're not infuriating either. Just a one trick pony.

In 100% of cases, artists should be able to come to work drunk.

How many artists do you know? That should be high, not drunk. It's the marketing, sales, and management folk that come in drunk. Still drunk.

Before the accusations start flying, check the IPs, he's not me.  You can tell because he posted in a thread about a Turbine product.. something I'd never lower myself to doing.

In 99% of cases, writers should shut the fuck up and write backstory while the designers design.

Every writer at BioWare is both a writer and a designer. Hats are swapped depending on the stage of the project.

I have and always will advocate for the removal of any official game forums that are not designed for:

-Bug reports
-Technical issues
-Server boards (complete with guild recruitment sub-board)

Dont host general boards, dont host dev boards and certainly dont host class/race boards.

Let that shit happen on someone else's dime in someone else's playground.  Eventually fansites where the bullshit is pre-filtered will often rise up, because mods on fansites will not tolerate "DEV READ THIS" type shit for very long.

DO NOT EVER post on fansites.  Except f13, and then only in this general sort of way.  Don't ever address some online petition style bullshit, even if you think that the players are 100% right.  The second they get the idea you are listening and that if they petition something and put enough pages on it it deserves to be changed you are screwed.  Then the fucking MMO special interest groups go to work for their pet class/race/item/dungeon and your so swamped in useless BLUE READ THIS style shit that it makes my eyes bleed.

If the dev team isn't smart enough to be able to figure out what is fun and what isn't, then the game is going to suck.  Sure players can point you in the right direction or reveal flaws (ways to bug mob AI, spells with incorrect damage modifiers etc) that you may have missed.  But the players aren't going to tell you how to balance the game, and devs who try to get that sort of info from them just end up breaking the game even more.

If you read the SWG thread and dont see that those poor idiots (or as I have called them in the past diluted fools heh) who are wishing that the SWG devs had just listened to them, rolled the game back to build 12xyz and done blahblahblah are idiots.  Well I just dont know what to say.

How many artists do you know? That should be high, not drunk. It's the marketing, sales, and management folk that come in drunk. Still drunk.

You know what's wrong with it? For someone who is uninformed like myself, that things looks great. Only there's not one single solitary second of IN-GAME footage in the whole 30 seconds of that spot. It's all pre-rendered cinematic stuff which has fuckall to do with the actual game. It would be better served advertising a Final Fantasy game than DDO. I mean, not even 5 seconds of in-game footage could be spared for this?

So I was watching the BSG finale on TIVO last night and while fast-forwarding through commercials, I caught a glimpse of a DDO logo. I stopped, rewound and watched the entire DDO TV commercial.

Hey Cal, would it be possible for me to cockslap anyone involved in the making of that commercial? Please? Because I really want to. Hard. A lot.

You know what's wrong with it? For someone who is uninformed like myself, that things looks great. Only there's not one single solitary second of IN-GAME footage in the whole 30 seconds of that spot. It's all pre-rendered cinematic stuff which has fuckall to do with the actual game. It would be better served advertising a Final Fantasy game than DDO. I mean, not even 5 seconds of in-game footage could be spared for this?

It's disingenuous.

Heh, one of the most persistant of AC2 fanboi myths was that if only Turbine had advertised people would have flocked to the game. If this campaign doesn't work any better than SWG NGE's huge TV ad campaign flop (and I don't think it will) I think we'll be able to dismiss the idea of TV ads for MMORPGs entirely. Word of mouth is all that matters people.

AC2 would have done better if it had been in any way entertaining at all.

And it appears that I still hold the award for being the only member here who even remotely enjoyed playing AC2. Something must be wired wrong...

The only active member.

IIRC, SirBruce LOVED AC2.  You should cleanse yourself now.

You know what's wrong with it? For someone who is uninformed like myself, that things looks great. Only there's not one single solitary second of IN-GAME footage in the whole 30 seconds of that spot. It's all pre-rendered cinematic stuff which has fuckall to do with the actual game. It would be better served advertising a Final Fantasy game than DDO. I mean, not even 5 seconds of in-game footage could be spared for this?

And it appears that I still hold the award for being the only member here who even remotely enjoyed playing AC2. Something must be wired wrong...

There was a game in Britain that got slapped by truth-in-advertising laws for the same thing recently.  I thought I saw it on the boards here, maybe on Game Politics, but my memory is failing me.

There was a game in Britain that got slapped by truth-in-advertising laws for the same thing recently.  I thought I saw it on the boards here, maybe on Game Politics, but my memory is failing me.

A complaint has been upheld by the UK Advertising Standards Authority in regards to the television advertisements created for Call of Duty 2. The adverts were deemed misleading as they displayed pre-rendered images rather than actual in-game footage. Due to this, the ads can never be shown again on UK television.

In response to this Activision stated that "using pre-rendered images rather than in game footage is common practice nowadays". If the ruling is completed successfully it could mean that countless more cases are opened up regarding misleading adverts and could send shockwaves through the games industry.

The two Activision games were Call of Duty 2 and Call of Duty: Big Red One, but this is just the beginning.

There was a game in Britain that got slapped by truth-in-advertising laws for the same thing recently.  I thought I saw it on the boards here, maybe on Game Politics, but my memory is failing me.

That's why I wonder about the use of the term "Raids (http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=6219.0)" in DDO's upcoming content patch.

Yeah, but if Bob Catass can ding max in two days, how long is it going to take Joe Casual?  A week?  Two weeks?  A month?

Newsflash: Very few MMOG players are roleplayers.

And it appears that I still hold the award for being the only member here who even remotely enjoyed playing AC2. Something must be wired wrong...

Which IMO is the root of 99.9% of MMOGRPG developers problems.

No, the players are as much the problem as the developers. We keep buying the same shit that actively discourages roleplaying and the developers see us buying it so they keep making it. It's a vicious cycle.

We are enablers.

I just think too much time is spent on the idea of roleplaying rather than just having fun in a game. 

Neocron had a great backstory as well but its PvP bias means the playerbase is populated by those least likely to (and least sympathetic to) RP - the closest they get over there is 'I'm RPing a psycho killer'

I saw no evidence of effort spent on enabling RP in either EQ1+2, CoH, MXO or DAoC all of which are the classic examples of the level treadmill (bash, ding, gratz rinse repeat)

Link! (http://www.f4g.net/vb/showthread.php?t=63252)

Ostensibly the root of the URL is short for Forums4Games,

God help me, but I need a sandbox fix STAT.  I am extremely tempted to jump into Ultima Online this weekend and see how much it has changed. 

I did this last fall and I can save you some time.  Jesus H. Cristo, there is always EVE.  I'd rather play Horizons than UO.

The big difference, I think, is that it is EVE's gameplay alone that whittles down the playerbase.  UO has the gameplay as a repulsor, but the graphics too, and probably other items I didn't endure long enough to detect.  The unfortunately-complex UI in EVE exists only because the game itself is very complex; most everything is doable via right-click context menus and I don't really know how to make that more simple... so while most newbies feel overwhelmed by the UI, if they persisted through a week or two of play they would come to realize that there is a huge amount of information under there.  First, though, you have to get used to things like this:

http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/GreyArea/Info2.jpg

I think when I get a little time, I'll write an honest review of UO.  It's (almost) the only sandbox left, and most people are largely unfamiliar with the modern incarnation.  I promise it won't be a lovefest.  :-P