f13.net

Interesting songs to come out to. Steelers have the edge. :)

Seahawks: Bitter Sweet Symphony - The Verve
Steelers: Right Here, Right Now - Fatboy Slim

Of course, royalties on the first go to fatboys Mick and Keith.

Fucking Seattle receivers are so incompetent on so many levels.

Still pulling for Big Ben to get his legs ripped off, fucking Steelers.

Dunno what the hell the Seahawks were doing in the last minute. Score doesn't reflect the kicking the Steelers were getting. All to play for.

I missed the last 3 minutes... the Steelers had just ran the play almost to the inzone.  Did they get the touch down?

You missed one of only two really good plays by the Steelers. It got them to three yards. They then tried to let Bettis push in, but it wasn't happening. On third, Roth leapt over the top, and got what was a questionable touchdown. Couln't be determined by camera, so it rightly stayed a touchdown as called. Seahawks had nearly two clear minutes to sort things out. They wasted nearly all that time and ended up having to kick 58 yards. Which didn't happen.

The time wasting and incompetence at the end of the first half by the 'hawks is only matched in horror by the Rolling Stones' diabolical performance. They may have a few good tunes, but they sure sound like shit these days.

It was good to see the Stones again.  They reaffirmed my opinion of them that I've held for many years.  They suck.

The first steelers TD was total bullshit.

The second one was golden.

The second one was rugby, it was such a long and flawless run.

Seahawks played the second half the way they ended the first half. Steelers did a good job with two fine touchdowns and some great plays, though the Rolling Stones could have beat the Seahawks in the fourth quarter.

Seattle played like shit. Tho, as has already been stated, the first TD was absolute bullshit. If you can move the ball across the line after you're already down...what the fucks the point?

After having lived in Washington all my life, the only thing I can figure is that the rest of the teams this year just /AFKed out of every Seachicken game. They aren't ready for the Superbowl. I'm not bitter.

Errmm, it looked like the nose inched across when he made contact.  It was really too close to call, but also too close to reverse upon review.  If you think that's what they were looking at in the review, then you really need to stop huffing paint fumes.

Any team that manages to drop that many passes and butcher the clock that badly deserves to lose.

End of the first half and end of the game were both abominations for Seattle. With about 1:30 on the clock in the first half they throw a 5 yard pass over the middle then it's down to about 20 seconds before they can run the next play...wtf?

The first Steeler TD was good. The nose of the ball crossed the white strip while Ben was in the air and that's all it takes.

Seattle has been dropping tons of passes for years. That along with lots of penalties killed them. They had a lot of huge plays taken away by a drop or a penalty.

Also the pass interference call on the first apparent Seattle TD was BS. Still they deserved to lose.

Did I actually see a commercial for a remake of Running Scared?

Please god tell me I hallucinated that.

The 'Addicted to Lost' promo was my favorite part of the game, after the double-reverse Randel El touchdown pass. But then, I am a fanboi.

It was a reverse, not a double reverse. Pet peeve of mine.

A reverse is when you hand the ball to one guy who runs one way, then he hands to another guy running the other way. For a double reverse that guys then has to hand back to another guy running the opposite (original) way.

How in the holy monkeyfuck did they get so many players to touch the championship trophy for those commercial promos?  The first few I saw (all Steelers holding the trophy) almost gave me a heart attack.

Yea, I commented on that during the game as well. It was...weird.

Seahawks got robbed:

1. The touchdown that wasn't a touchdown. If you look where the ball was tucked it never moved. His trajectory was also always moving forward. The ball landed on the 4 inch line. No way was that a touchdown. They also showed a different angle during one of the "Bettis is Mic'd" series and it showed the ball clearly and where it came down. The line judge even came in signaling he was down and then Ben moved the ball (after he was down) and he signaled the touchdown. Pittsburgh most likely goes for it on 4th and inches and gets the TD anyway here so probably not the biggest of the issues.

2. Bogus pass interference call to pull back one touchdown. Ward made a similar non-push-off later in the game that wasn't called despite also being right in front of an official. Announcers (Steve Young) who are in the NFL pocket aggree the Seahawks got robbed.

3. Hasselbeck throws a pick and makes the saving tackle and gets a 15 yar penaltyr for "tackling below the waist." That penalty sets up the trick play TD to Ward.

4. Seahawks pass the ball down to the 2 yard line and a phantom hold negates the play. Madden again makes the statement about a bad call. When the announcers continue to make comments you know somethings up.

5. Long pass to I think Jackson. He gets the left foot in and hits the pylon with his right. Play is called out of bounds and it's within the 2 minute warning but no review. The single full speed replay when slowed down (via DVR since they only showed it once) shows it was a touchdown. The Pylon is ruled as in the field of play and a touch of the pylon is the same as a foot in.

6. Porter horse-collars (tackels him by the back of the shoulder pads) Alexandar right in front of the officials. No call and Madden comments AGAIN.

7. Hasselbeck is touched goes down flat on the ground (knees, elbows, stomach, completely flat) and the ground causes a fumble. The officials give it to the steelers. The review shows it's too obvious to screw the hawks again so they overturn it.

8. Warrick runs a punt back 33 yards and inside steelers territory. Holding penalty is called. Announcers show the before the kick and claim that's the hold but the flag comes down during the runback. Another phantom hold to negate a big seahawks play.

9. Play clock runs to zero, Ben sees it and calls a timeout AFTER the clock hits zero. Officials give him the time out instead of the appropriate delay of game penalty. Leaves it 3rd and 6 instead of 3rd and 11 during a key drive to run time off the clock. Announcers again comment on the bad call and compare it to a similar call in another game.


All that was enough to hand the Steelers the win. There is no way Roethlisburgers 22.8 QB rating is enough to win this game if not for the officials.

It wasn't a hallucination but fortunately it's not a remake of the Billy Crystal/Gregory Hines classic.

It was pretty boring for me. I'm not a fan or hater of either team so I was just hoping for a good entertaining game. It just seemed kind of dull to me.

I liked the FedEx caveman commercial. Squish!

56 days till baseball.

The first Steelers TD was very close, and I can't say for sure that he did get in but the replay didn't clear it up enough to overturn the call already made. The officiating overall was pretty pisspoor. The 15-yard low block penalty on Hasselback was a bullshit call, as was the Darrell Jackson pass interference call to overturn the TD. I could see the holding call that negated the Seahawks pass to Stevens on the 3-yd line; it was ticky-tack but it was at least better than the interference call on Jackson.

But really, the Seahawks had plenty of opportunities in the first half to get some points, and they really blew them all. They never made the big play, and it was a game that was won on big plays. Pittsburgh made them and Seattle didn't. Rothliesberger looked like shit most of the game, but when he needed a big play, he made it. That game was a lot closer than 21-10, and it should have probably been 21-17.

Did I mention the officials sucked it hard? Also, the NFL really needs to do away with the "illegal block in the back" and "holding" penalties on punt returns. Almost every return I watched this season (and thanks to Tivo, I saw an average of 3 games every single week, every single play PLUS all the playoff games and the Super Bowl) there was one of these penalties, and often over shit that just plain should not have been called. It's gotten to the point where if you just touch the back of a guy's jersey, you get an illegal block in the back. It slows up the game, removes some good plays and just plain blows monkeys.

The biggest thing that killed Seattle though, IMO, was their wretched clock managment at the ends of the half. It wasn't like these were rookies, coach or QB, that were doing it for the first time. These were seasoned vets. I mean, after one dinky 5-yd pass over the middle, Hasselback pisses away like 30 seconds fiddle-farting around with audibles instead of spiking the ball or just getting up there and going downfield. Hell, the Steelers gave Seattle a gift with that timeout at 13 seconds and the Hawks still couldn't do shit with it. Seattle wastes a timeout and get no points anyway because they left their kicker a 58 yarder. Dumbasses.

Seemed pretty simple to me, Seattle lost for the same reason they lost in the wildcard last year.  They have terrible fucking receivers who have no clutch, and clutch is everything.  Pathetic..

They should have thrown to Jurevicious more often. Props to Joe by the way for the mention of Lake Catholic High School during the player introductions. Yes, I went to Lake and yes I graduated with Joe.

And Seattle also had it's share of big plays. Just turned out that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM got called back because of a penalty.

amen and AMEN!

Further points because I've been in grudge mode since the game concluded...

Roethlesburger's abysmal QB rating... far and away the lowest rating wise and by any other measure of any Superbowl or for that matter any playoff game winning team.  I mean... WTF?!

Seahawks all year long were the lowest (or 2nd lowest) penalized team in the league; all the sudden they forget how to play this game on Superbowl Sunday?

Steelers flagged for only 3 penalties on Sunday and no holding calls.  Again... WTF?

INCONCEIVABLE!  (and yes, I do know what that word means)

Final score (should have been:) Steelers 10, Seahawks 10, Officiating Crew 11

You can bitch about officiating all you like, but anyone that has ever played the sport knows that OFFiCIATING IS PART OF THE GAME.  Good teams cope with it, great teams overcome it. 

1. I agree with the call to let the TD stand.  There wasn't conclusive evidence found in 3 minutes to overturn the ruling on the field. 

2. I also agree that Seattle got some bad calls.  The low block, the hold, and the pass interference could have easily been overlooked. 

3. They made the correct ruling on the Hasselback fumble by overturning it.

4. Seattle blew quite a few opportunities due to a) lack of production from their receivers, b) poor judgment by an inexperienced safety, and c) a poor showing by Alexander.  Seattle was not in (pardon the cliche) "Super Bowl form".  Key injuries also took their toll.

As someone that could have cared less which team won, I'll say this:  Hasselback was the best player in the game.  Jurevicious was solid as always.  But... Pittsburgh was the better team on Sunday.  The 75 yd run by Parker and the TD pass by Randel El were Super Bowl Gold

This was the point in the game where I lost interest.  That was not a TD.

95 yards (4.8 average) against one of the best run defenses in the NFL is NOT a poor showing. 400 yards of total offense even after 70 penalty yards and 90+ yards of offense lost (160 yd swing) on those penalities is NOT a poor offensive performance.

A 22.8 QB rating IS a poor performance.

Yet the Steelers won...

95 yards during the regular season is a decent showing.  95 yards from the NFL MVP in the Super Bowl is not. Great players MUST step up in big games.  Alexander was a let down. 

Roethlisberger was horrible, I agree.  Parker and Randel El saved the game.  I have new found respect for Hasselbeck, he made some very good throws that were wasted.    I also feel for the Seattle replacement defensive players thrown to the wolves. That's a tough situation to come off the bench in.   

Note: I'll also go out on a limb and say that just like Marino, Roethlisberger never wins another super bowl as a starter.

Maybe you are confusing Alexander with Holmgren (or whoever calls the plays in Seattle). I will take a 4.8 yards/carry average from my running back any game of the year. I have a very hard time seeing that as a let down. The 95 yards is irrelevant as he only had 20 carries.

Point made.  I stand corrected.   Even if you eliminate the 21 yd play he was still averaging 3.8 a carry.  Pretty respectible.

Marino never won a Super Bowl if I'm remembering correctly. 

You're right... I had a brain fart.  Marino played in only one Super Bowl (his second year in the NFL if I recall correctly).  He never won one.

If I screwed this one too... I'm just going to give up.

Report card.  (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/john_donovan/02/06/sb.report.cards/index.html)

Have to agree with the guy's assessment, even if he is a tad harsh on Hasselback.  I guess that clock butchering would cost him a couple grades in my book too.

Yea, that report card confirmed what I thought of the game.

That was some of the worst football I've ever seen, amplified by the fact it was the superbowl. The luckiest team ever paired against the unluckiest team ever.

I also have a theory that when teams without gargantuan followings make it to the superbowl, the quality of commercials go down. But that's just me be kuh-razy.

Just to make it clear, I watch basically one game a year (though I was pretty into it years ago), and it's the superbowl. I like seeing good football at the superbowl regardless of who's in it. I don't like or dislike the steelers or the seahawks. I just thought neither were remotely near super bowl material.

Edit: The pirates suck too. But they predictably suck.

A lot of sports pundit-types are calling this "the worst on-field Superbowl" they've ever seen. 

I do disagree that Roethlisberger will never win another Super Bowl.  He got them through some games this year that they would have NOT won otherwise.  This game, he was down, and other people picked it up- that is the mark of a championship team.

Gogo Roethlisberger and Findlay OH!

Good Defence isn't as fun to watch as Good Offence.

Good Defense is better than watching pass drops.

The Steelers didn't even play good defense, they did not control Alexander he was getting 4-6 yards with ease but Seattle refused to just pound them.  The sad thing is Hasselbeck looked really good in the game but honestly he was throwing completely shit passes at least once every 5 throws, but anyone would have looked good compared to the Steelers offense (minus one trick play and one big run) in that game.

As a Bengals fan, I hate the fucking lucky, dirty, bastage Steelers.

Yeah, the Dropsies came back to hurt the Hawks bad in this one. Real bad. Over the last few years, it seems like when the Hawks get in their biggest games of the season, the receivers just flat out forgot how to catch the ball. Jurevicius was the best receiver they had and they didn't throw to him enough. D-Jack started like he was going to have a big day, but he couldn't make it happen on the long ball. Catching dink and dunk passes are all well and good, but when you need a big play, that's when the true greats step up and the wannabes drop the fucking ball or can't come inbounds with the catch. I will give their offensive coaches credit for one thing. Polamalu was invisible during the scheme, I think mostly due to scheme. But that clock management is unacceptable.

Rothliesberger is going to be a very good QB, IMO. But the mark of a good team is that if your QB is down, you are still in the game. Alexander's day was ok, but really, he only had 20 carries. They'd have done better to put the game on his shoulders than on D-Jack's or their receivers.

Except for the two touchdowns he had that were negated by shitty officiating. Well I should say one negated and one questionable.

I'm still not positive on the rule. The second was where he was running down the sidelines, catches the ball cleanly, left foot down, right foot kicks the pylon and then goes down out of bounds. I always thought a foot hitting a pylon was the same as a foot landing on the field as the pylon is considered turf.

Of course inside 2 minutes and the play wasn't even reviewed. If you remember the game this is where the camera showed Hasslebeck asking the official "what the fuck is going on here?". It was pretty easy to read his lips on that one.

The interference call he got was bullshit, I'll give you that one. But as a professional, you suck it up and come back and make a play the next time. They didn't.


I think the pylon is only considered in-bounds if the BALL hits it, not his foot. Madden and Michaels looked at it one time, and neither of them said anything about it being inbounds for the purpose of being a catch. The only instance I've ever seen of the pylon being something is if a ball carrier who already had possession tries to stick it in; if he gets it on the in-bounds side of the pylon, or touches the pylon, it's a TD.

I just can't find enough detail of the specific situation.

For example I found the following on NFL.com as a 2002 rule change:


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/5153800

There's no mention of the original rule or if this is a sub-rule to something else though.

The other mention of this rule change is even less clear:

Sounds like it was a situation that just really didn't have much known precedent, and since his foot landed out of bounds after hitting the pylon, they just ruled him out of bounds and moved on. I would have thought someone would bring up a review if it needed to be reviewed, but the officiating was shitty.

I believe the call on the pylon was right. It was one foot in, other foot goes out missing the pylon. Foot that was in hits the plyon. That's out of bounds.

I'm hardly unbiased (one for the thumb baby), but I can't help necroposting now that I've gotten in from out of town.  Super bowl weekend in Vegas is pretty fun, by the way.   

There is an explanation of the pylon rule, the non-horse collar, and a few other calls that were made during the game here.  http://www.insidefootball.com/int/askofficial.html  Some of the things people are whining about are just silly (the hold on the punt return where the guy had a fistful of jersey), but there were a lot of extremely close calls in this game.  The offensive PI call seemed pretty blatant to me, and seemed like a call that non-superstar WRs get all the time (that's BS, but it's BS when the call isn't made on a star, not when it is on a chump).

I saw a couple pictures that I thought were illuminating on the Roethlisburger touchdown and the Locklear hold:

(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/1001/touchdowncopy20oq5ln.th.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=touchdowncopy20oq5ln.jpg)

I don't think anyone can say that this was surely a TD or surely not a TD.  It looks like a TD in that picture, but it wasn't taken directly on the goal line (for some dumbass reason, the NFL does not place cameras on the goal lines).  This is the kind of thing that makes me happy I'm not a ref; I really can't imagine a closer call.

The hold looks like a hold, especially considering that Locklear was badly beaten yet again and hooked to prevent an obvious sack.  There have been suggestions that he was warned prior to this play by the official.  The guy at fault here was Hassleback, who didn't mix up his snap count even though it had been read on both the plays prior to this (as well as this one).  ABC never played the reverse angle, and Madden is functionally retarded.

(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/2990/holding7gs.th.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=holding7gs.jpg)
(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/1455/hold28zt.th.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hold28zt.jpg)

The Hassleback low tackle call was a good call, it's just a horrible, horrible rule.  "You can't go low through a blocker to make a tackle on a return" is a new rule that was called against the Steelers in the Colts playoff game, and I've seen it in a few other games this season.  The NFL supposedly is going to change this rule in the offseason because it's stupid as hell.

There were also some big calls that went against the Steelers.  In the first quarter, Stevens caught a ball, took two steps, turned, got levelled and dropped the ball.  Nobody is around for a very long stretch except Farrior and Polomalu, but the refs blew it dead, costing the Steelers a ton of field position.  In the second, Ward was hit helmet-to-helmet while being tackled at the sideline near midfield.  Shortly thereafter, Roethlisburger vomits up his wobbly interception/punt which wouldn't have been the call from the 35.  That's probably 3 points right there.  In the third, when R'burger screws the pooch again by tossing up in INT instead of lobbing the ball to the wide open guy in the corner for an 18 point lead, he is obliterated by a block from behind square between the shoulders when he ran to attempt a tackle, a non-call that handed the Seahawks about 50 yards.   

This was a horrible, horrible game.  The Steelers were awful, particularly R'burger with the unforced errors at every turn.  He seemed nervous and the rest of the team seemed like they believed they'd win just by showing up.  Too bad the Colts-Steelers game wasn't the actual Super Bowl.  I was still screaming my lungs out for Bettis, for the last 12 years of frustration (6 AFC championship games, 1 ring finally!) and, of course, for the Steelers/under parley :)

How long until training camp?  Because the Pens and Pirates are done already.

The NFL rules are an abomination. They are just so complicated it's insane. They really need to strip things down to something more common sense. All this stuff about tuck rules and ground causing fumbles and 'football moves' are clear as mud.

One reason I've never been fond of football - it's too fucking technical. Shit like tuck rules, illegal formation, ineligable recievers...wtf, just let the players play.

The NFL rules need to be changed if only to keep the punt returns open for...an actual return. Throwing a flag on a block that had nothing to do with the play if patently ridiculous, and the fact that long returns are expected to have flags are an indicator.

Shit like illegal block behind the play....in football, if you're behind the play, you're not relevant. Stuff like facemask and roughing keep in, but holding? pfft

That ask the offical site is funny. The dude is an official being paid by the NFL. Of couse he's going to side with the NFL as it's his ass on the line if he doesn't. They fine players for disputing calls in the NFL, what do you think would happen if an actual official disputed a call.


LoL... the fact that the defender was on his heels created the seperation not D. Jackson's "push-off". This guy is a homer of the nth degree.

What a pointless website to point to for a controversy.

By the way I still don't see the holding in those stills. In the first he looks beat and is falling down not "wrapping" or "hooking" and in the second it's called blocking.

Yeah, this is one of my pet peeves this season. I swear there were an average of about 1-2 punts this year per game that were not called back for a hold or the idiotic illegal block in the back rule. I hate the latter rule. Essentially is a guy puts one finger on another guy's back, whether it does anything to change the "blocked" guys direction or not, it's a penalty, wiping out the return and holding up the game. Fuck that noise, let them play. Blocks in the back that SHOULD be called are mostly obvious.

He's beat and is hanging on the jersey in both shots. At least the NHL gets that rule mostly right now.

under the current rules its almost impossible to not have some blocks in the back when a run starts going up field fast. The kicking team players will turn quickly to try to go towards the guy with the ball and this will almost always cause at least one guy to stay blocking a hair to long.

I can see a rule for flagrant blocks in the back which can be damaging but are also VERY obvious.

I don't think that the rules are the problem  It's the speed of the game that makes enforcing the rules the problem.  Things happen so fast on a football field that making a solid judgement call is a difficult affair.  While I often bitch about referee calls myself, I do realize that referees have a very difficult job. 

I happen to like many of the recent rule additions.  As an athlete, your health is all you have.  While the interpretation of the rules can occasionally interfere with the flow of a game, their existence can minimize some of the more hazardous aspects of the game.  If you keep in mind that some of the shots that professionals bounce back from would be enough to hospitalize a normal adult, it helps you understand the spirit of the rule.   

Now multiply that by 10,000 and you have basketball.

Basketball has to be THE wussiest "contact" sport there is. Yao Ming was out for what, like 10 games with a hurt toe? With the exception of a few players, NBA players are fucking babies.

I won't diss toe injuries. You can do some nasty things to your toes that would make even walking very difficult let alone doing basketball moves.

Frankly I would rather have somebody sitout than to take so many drugs to help play through the pain that they become addicted to pain meds.

A game is simply not worth a life destroying addiction.

kaid

I was personally impressed with Z. Ilgouskas. He actually had his foot completely reshaped to get through his foot problems of 2-3 years ago. Since then he hasn't missed a game because of foot problems. Then again he now has 2 completely different looking feet.

The rest of him is so freakin' ugly that no one will ever notice his feet.

It's not even about taking drugs. Football and Hockey players play through a LOT more pain and injury than basketball players.

Basketball and baseball have some arcane rules but they rarely matter. In football the wacky rules seem to come up all the damn time.

Baseball's so old it's got rules about who's able to pinch hit during a German Bomber attack.

My favorite baseball rule is the "you can run to first if the catcher drops the third strike" rule.  That's the kind of shit we'd make up playing whiffleball in the back yard after elementary school.

Also, NBA officiating sucks monkey balls because the stars get obscenely preferential treatment. 

I swear, ice hockey players are too stupid to feel pain.  Every hockey player I've met seems to have a wind tunnel between their ears.  A company I worked for used to manage the personal affairs of Rick Tocchet, among others.  God, he was a silly bit of fluff.    His recent behaviour has done nothing to prove me wrong.  (http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/sports/story.html?id=480362d2-ecdc-499f-a8b9-f7cf958854a9&k=63652)

No offense to any professional dumbasses hockey players who may peruse this forum. 

I lived next to a NHL player in college. It was great - he was never home and he left his hot tub running all the time.

I forgot about that! It was Bill Ranford, wasn't it?

Because he also left his jetskis and motorboat out I refuse to acknowledge who it was.

There's plenty of intelligent people in hockey, just like any other sport. Pointing to someone like Tocchet is pretty fucking weak.

No, you're weak.  In fact you're WEAK SAUCE!   :-P