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Title: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 24, 2006, 02:18:57 PM Or total rubbish? YOU DECIDE:
-New Spell: Disease Resistance (Level 20) - Increases the targets chance of resisting disease debuffs by 10%. Lasts 3 minutes. (Dwarf only) -Desperate Prayer - Amount healed and cooldown decreased slightly. This ability has been expanded to allow targeted casting. (Dwarf and Human only) -New Spell: Spiritual Clarity (Level 20) - The target is infused with spritual force, removing the weakened soul debuff. 15 minute cooldown. (Human only) -New Spell: Elune's Serenity (Level 20) - Enters the caster into a regenerative state, restoring 1100 mana and 600 health over 30 seconds. Must be used out of combat. 5 minute cooldown. (Night Elf only) -Starshards - Damage slightly increased, range decreased slightly. This spell was incorrectly avoiding range checks during channeling, this issue has been fixed. -Devouring Plague - Damage slightly decreased, mana cost slightly increased. The amount healed by this spell has been reduced to 40% of the damage done to the target and has been expanded to heal all party members. -Touch of Weakness - Target damage reduction significantly increased, damage significantly increased, cooldown added. The damage reducing ability of this spell will now affect all party members. This spell can now be triggered through spellcasting. -New Spell: Dark Presence (Level 40) - When active, mana will be drained from the target equal to 5% of all damage done over the next 30 seconds. 3 Minute cooldown. (Troll only) -Hex of Weakness - In addition to the damage reduction modifier, the target will now have all spell resistance values reduced significantly. This change should make Hex of Weakness a more attractive option for Troll priests. -Inner Fire - The attack power and armor bonuses for this ability have been removed and replaced with a moderate increase in all spell resistances and a 5% increase in wand damage. These changes should make this ability more favorable to priests. -Greater Heal - The dynamic of Greater Heal has been completely readjusted to make it a channeled heal over time. It now functions similar to channeled damage spells (blizzard etc.) except that it heals the target player progressively throughout the 4 second cast. As with other channeled damage spells, the full mana cost of the spell will be lost if the cast is stopped or interrupted at any point. -Power Word:Shield - Power Word:Shield can now be modified by a small percentage of + healing gear based upon the skill points used in the new discipline talent, Inner Resolve. -Fade - In PvP combat, use of the fade ability now causes any unit that has the caster targeted to lose target, much like if the caster were to stealth. The caster can be aquired again by retargeting, as is intended. -Prayer of Fortitude - Mana cost slightly reduced. -Holy Fire - Damage slightly increased. -Mana Burn - Range slightly reduced. -Psychic Scream - A new system of checks has been instituted now allowing for a percent chance that psychic fear will not be canceled by other abilities. The percentage chance is dependent upon the targets shadow resistance and level. -Abolish Disease - Range slightly reduced. -Divine Spirit - Mana cost reduced. -Focused Casting - Duration decreased to 6 seconds. -Mind Soothe - Mana cost increased. Maximum rank of targets affected reduced to 65. -Mind flay - Target movement speed is now reduced to 60% of the normal value. -Fear Ward - This spell is no longer a dwarven racial ability. This talent can now be found at 31 points in the discipline tree. -Levitation - An appropriate error message now appears if the caster attempts to use it while submerged. -All +mana/5 second regenerative items have now been changed to function within the normal passive tick system that spirit operates in. This change should fix numerous lingering issues regarding incorrect threat gain. The Prophetic Aura will also now enter this passive state. -Starshards - The animation has been changed to prevent the reversed fall issue. -Updated various spell tooltips to be more clear (grammatical errors etc.). -Mana Burn - Mana Burn now correctly interrupts the capture of a flag. -Mind Flay - Spell animation altered to fix an issue with no display during repeated casts. -Power Word:Shield - Fixed an issue with animation display while in shadowform. The shield animation should now display as intended. Polymorph now removes the weakened soul effect. -Mind Control - Mind Control now functions correctly if canceled while the targeted unit is attacking a friendly NPC. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Morfiend on January 24, 2006, 02:29:04 PM I would say garbage, due to the fact that why would they give alliance a bunch of spells, but not horde?
I would like it if Fear Ward was possible for all priests though. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 24, 2006, 02:40:22 PM I would say garbage, due to the fact that why would they give alliance a bunch of spells, but not horde? I would like it if Fear Ward was possible for all priests though. That part is believable to me, since Priests are the only class with race specific spells. If you look through, they basically have fixes all all the various race specific spells, removed one from Dwarf, added one to replace it, and nerfed the good undead racial and buffed the useless undead racial. All of that makes sense, since the Undead priests are considered "teh best" and everyone believes that undead priests racials are 1) way over powered and 2) not trivial gimmicks like all of the other priest racial spells. There is also what I consider to be a major shadow priest nerf that is hidden in there. It's clever, which makes it look somewhat real to me: Quote -Inner Fire - The attack power and armor bonuses for this ability have been removed and replaced with a moderate increase in all spell resistances and a 5% increase in wand damage. These changes should make this ability more favorable to priests. Basically, make Inner Fire good for holy priests by upping the spell resists (for pvp) and wand damage (for pve soloing), but at the same time, nerf the hell out of the HUGE damage reduction my shadow priest gets when stacking this and shadowform (I can get up to ~50-60% damage reduction with inner fire and shadowform both on).. The thing is, the greater heal thing looks good, but also seems like it will be rather unbalancing. Basically Priests will be the ONLY allowable healer on high end raids if that patch note is true. Just have a priest group of 5 priests, all channeling greater heal all the time at the mt. Raid strategy will change drastically... I guess it will finally stop the "but who needs a priest when you can have a <insert X healer class here>" but it will drastically increase the "but MY DRUID IS USELESS IN THE END GAME" posts.. Overall I give it a 20% chance of being real.. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Paelos on January 24, 2006, 02:46:20 PM They have to make fear ward non-racial sometime. It's been screamed about for a while now.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Zane0 on January 24, 2006, 03:11:46 PM Garbage, I'd say. Nothing jumps out, but a lot of niggles; a lot of trivial "changes" that have no conceivable rationale.
-New Spell: Spiritual Clarity (Level 20) - The target is infused with spritual force, removing the weakened soul debuff. 15 minute cooldown. (Human only) Next to useless, and human priest racials are good enough. - Mana Burn - Range slightly reduced - Abolish Disease - Range slightly reduced. Slightly reduced range on seemingly random abilities simply doesn't make any sense. Abilities are always in 10 yard increments, at least for priests, and I wouldn't call that "slightly". All +mana/5 second regenerative items have now been changed to function within the normal passive tick system that spirit operates in. This change should fix numerous lingering issues regarding incorrect threat gain. The Prophetic Aura will also now enter this passive state. There aren't any items left that do this anymore. Only the enchants, I believe. -Mind Soothe - Mana cost increased. Maximum rank of targets affected reduced to 65. Stupid. 70 vs 65 is not a distinction that means anything. Fear Ward - This spell is no longer a dwarven racial ability. This talent can now be found at 31 points in the discipline tree. Where does Divine Spirit go? Anyways, channeled Gheal would be good, I spose, but that might ironically change it into a less mana efficient spell than flash heal. The only other alternative to Gheal would be to turn it into something like a Druid's healing touch, which obligates me to stick to FH, since half the power of a priest is in his/her ability to heal the most amount of health in the least time of all healing classes with it, in conjunction with PW:S. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: jpark on January 24, 2006, 03:27:07 PM There are some nice adjustments there but if this is true - certainly the Thread of the Day should be focused on the Priest board.
Priests have been ballistic for sometime that the Holy Talent tree is near useless after spending 10 points on it - had have assumed for sometime that when the priest revamp comes - that this talent tree would be the focus. Making the greater heal a channel ability concerns me - too few priests as it is lack the skill to get this off with its 4 second cast time - with it being channeled - even fewer priests will use it. The inner fire and fade changes are great ideas - but in aggregate - it is the holy tree users have been waiting for in this class. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 24, 2006, 03:49:03 PM A channeled heal would make for the most boring fucking job ever.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: jpark on January 24, 2006, 03:51:18 PM A channeled heal would make for the most boring fucking job ever. I don't follow. They are making the 4 second cast time a channeled heal. The total time for this ability, channeled or not, remains basically the same. But it makes a spell hard for most priests to use - even harder now. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on January 24, 2006, 03:55:20 PM If fewer priests use it as a channeled spell, well I dunno, they're goofy. Mana efficiency plus not worrying that you're going to kill the tank because the heal JUST misses the cast are nice attractors to me. Plus it's counter to the idea of heal rotations, and after doing that for 2 years in EQ I'm all for anything anti heal-rotation.
A channeled spell doesn't fix the 'burst healing' problem though, and that's where druids would fill-in assuming any "adjustment" to the flash heal talent. They'd still be useful, but not the primary healers. Also, so many bosses have AOE damage effects with debuffs that you need druids to patch heal so pallies/ shaman can cleanse. Divine Spirit, I'd imagine, would become a 21 point, or perhaps a 25 point talent. I can't imagine it dropping any lower than that. Perhaps Force of Will would go away. I can't imagine getting that over any of the shadow talents if I were concerned about doing damage. The implied holy tree changes look really good, though. I'll have to get a bunch of time on test if they're true so I can see what I want to do. Fear Ward is a BIIIG attractor (guild's been pushing folks to roll dwarf priests.. even to the point we're offering gold/ dkp to do it.) Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 24, 2006, 04:12:20 PM What I mean is that you basically hit a button and boom the person is getting health. No need to land the spell correctly or anything. Just have a renew up and a few gheals running... healing strat done. Yawn.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Righ on January 24, 2006, 04:28:40 PM I thought the healing strat was to install the heal and decurse mods and just click the same button whenever the mods selected the next target to heal or decurse, then pour scorn on other classes for playing in easy mode.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 24, 2006, 04:39:22 PM But it makes a spell hard for most priests to use - even harder now. No way, this would make it the easiest heal to use in the game.. :) Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Sachant on January 24, 2006, 05:17:33 PM I hope it's a joke.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Jobu on January 24, 2006, 05:27:38 PM I like the (fake?) stuff about Fade and Fear Ward. I'd like to see PvP-Fade work like a rogue's evasion though. Big, temporary buff to dodge and spell resists. Having to retarget me isn't really much of a way to convince me to use it in pvp.
I haven't even played my priest since I hit 59. Healbot sucked, and shadow-disc is fun for battlegrounds... but not as fun as my mage and rogue. I'm anxious to see how much they change the class, considering the huge boosts hunters, warlocks, and pallies got with their revamps. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 24, 2006, 05:28:30 PM I thought the healing strat was to install the heal and decurse mods and just click the same button whenever the mods selected the next target to heal or decurse, then pour scorn on other classes for playing in easy mode. In raids yeah... but I don't know anyone with the autotarget healing mods so it's basically 2 buttons and mouse clicks throughout. Most of healing strat in raids is knowing when to heal and when not to heal, the actual healing is typically brainless unless you're healing an offtank and can gheal. The most fun I have in PVE as a healer though is to land a really nice Gheal that gets the tank to 99%+ without any overheal. I also like to drink as little as possible, going so far as never drinking on a couple 5-mans, and Gheal as it stands now is exactly perfect for that. Channeling that big heal just wouldn't be as skillful/fun for me. Also, I'd be very fucking unimpressed if they did that to inner fire. That spell kicks so much ass for not getting reamed by melee and hunters. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Driakos on January 24, 2006, 07:24:52 PM Multiple human priests, with lots of + Healing Gear, using their new Racial in succession, sounds dirty to me.
Quote -New Spell: Spiritual Clarity (Level 20) - The target is infused with spritual force, removing the weakened soul debuff. 15 minute cooldown. (Human only) -Power Word:Shield - Power Word:Shield can now be modified by a small percentage of + healing gear based upon the skill points used in the new discipline talent, Inner Resolve. That (fake or not remains to be seen) would make them invaluable when compared to Night Elf and Dwarf Priests. Throw in Fade, and why bring other healing types to your raids? Well, I can see why Paladins and Shamans, because of their buffs. But, I think Druids would have it rough. They'd get to buff the Raid, and then be swapped out for another class. Summoned back after an hour, or a wipe. Though, I don't know, some guilds might have them sit around with Leader of the Pack on for the crit bonus? Maybe? Hopefully for them? Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Phred on January 24, 2006, 08:13:29 PM Garbage, I'd say. Nothing jumps out, but a lot of niggles; a lot of trivial "changes" that have no conceivable rationale. -New Spell: Spiritual Clarity (Level 20) - The target is infused with spritual force, removing the weakened soul debuff. 15 minute cooldown. (Human only) Next to useless, and human priest racials are good enough. In what bizarro universe is feedback good enough? A weapon buff? For a priest racial spell? You must play horde. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: DevilsAdvocate on January 24, 2006, 08:15:57 PM Any time you see patch notes purportedly giving your class exactly what you think the class needs, you should automatically assume they are fake. I know you want to hope that Blizzard does it right this time, but their history says otherwise.
The major changes they have made to the other classes were not what the players asked for, but instead were made with a basic idea of what would be good for Blizzard's perception of the class. Hunters, for example, had their Beast Mastery tree buffed, but not in ways the players asked for. Instead, Blizzard saw it wasn't being used and did what they thought would make it more effective. Is it more effective? Anecdotal evidence seems to say yes. If Blizzard is going to change the way the Priest plays with their Talents, I suspect it will be changes in the Discipline tree. Most characters spec Holy or Shadow and use Discipline as a secondary tree, from what I have seen. I think they will attempt to make that tree stand more on it's own. The Inner Fire change is sucky. Playing as a priest up to 40, the bonuses from Inner Fire save you from overusing your shield. It makes it easier to solo for sure. The whole Fear Ward from Talent to Skill, I just can't see. The only talent I can think of offhand that became a skill was Hurricane for Druids. Hunters asked for Counterattack as a skill when it had been completely removed from the Talent list and replaced with a Talent that removed cooldowns and were roundly rejected by Blizzard. Instaed, they added Counterattack back and moved the new Talent onto a necklace you get in ZG. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: jpark on January 24, 2006, 09:31:56 PM What I mean is that you basically hit a button and boom the person is getting health. No need to land the spell correctly or anything. Just have a renew up and a few gheals running... healing strat done. Yawn. Agreed. Burst healing is the challenge to being a good priest - especially at a 4 second cast. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: jpark on January 24, 2006, 09:34:18 PM If fewer priests use it as a channeled spell, well I dunno, they're goofy. The problem with any spell that is channeled is the vulnerability you have to interruption. I can interrupt non-channeled spells constantly - never pay the mana for it - until I let the casting go the full casting time before the spell is released. This is part of the reason I think druids complain their group heal is not viable - channelling any heal makes you vulnerable to interruption with consumate mana loss. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: jpark on January 24, 2006, 09:37:44 PM Most characters spec Holy or Shadow and use Discipline as a secondary tree, from what I have seen. I think they will attempt to make that tree stand more on it's own. What? I think any casual perusal of the priest board will indicate it is almost unanimous the holy tree is useless outside spending 10 points. I see Discipline and Shadow all the time (I was a 60 priest - Discipline spec) - but Holy tree specialization? On two servers I have failed to see this - and again the class board on this tree concurrs. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Zetor on January 24, 2006, 11:42:12 PM Disease resistance? It should be immunity at the very least.. disease is rare as heck, and 10% resist when mobs that DO have a disease attack usually proc it on every hit doesn't help.
Spiritual Clarity just sounds nasty when stacked. Starshards will still suck if it doesn't do at least mind flay damage; Elune's Serenity just sounds gimp. IF it worked in combat but mezzed the user and broke when being attacked (like a dreamless sleep potion), we might be on to something, but this... no. Just eat/drink, this ability would be even worse than elune's grace. Dark Presence is interesting, but sounds a bit underpowered. Hex of Weakness sounds good. Devouring Plague wouldn't be any less uber with these changes assuming grouping; with the new ToW, undead priests would still be far and away #1. No armor from inner fire? wtf mate? I kinda like the wand damage bonus though. New fade = 100% useless in pvp. Retarget mods are already included in most major UIs and enabled by default. Divine Spirit and Fear Ward at 31? Something's gotta go! <vault>Assuming this is real (which it is probably not), PvP as a lock is going to be even worse now with undead having fear ward AND wotf AND a trinket. Make WOTF non-racial too! Or better yet, remove WOTF and shadowmeld from the game. Frigging broken abilities. :p</vault> -- Z. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on January 25, 2006, 04:19:18 AM Most characters spec Holy or Shadow and use Discipline as a secondary tree, from what I have seen. I think they will attempt to make that tree stand more on it's own. What? I think any casual perusal of the priest board will indicate it is almost unanimous the holy tree is useless outside spending 10 points. I see Discipline and Shadow all the time (I was a 60 priest - Discipline spec) - but Holy tree specialization? On two servers I have failed to see this - and again the class board on this tree concurrs. You mean that same board that says G. Heal is worthless because of the long cast time? Yeah, I stopped reading that board after the first time I read it. Timing a 10 sec cast spell all that time in EQ makes a 4 sec spell almost easy, even with the faster combat in WoW. The challenge I've come across comes in with the additional AOE/ multi-target attacks that mobs have in WoW.* Ignoring the holy tree beyond 10 pts means no Improved Flash Heal, no Sublty and no improved Prayer of healing. There's no way I'd spend 31 points in it, as there's too much damage and too many garbage abilities, but those 3 are very good for my playstyle. Shadow? I don't give a flying fuck about soloing or farming now that I'm 60, I have another character for that. When I got the urge to nuke I rolled a mage and fiddle with it from time to time. My priest is for raiding and keeping folks alive, and shadow doesn't do much to help that. I'd feel differently if I were on a PVP server, but I'm not. There's 3 trees and they need some tweaks, but Holy isn't as worthless as the board warriors (Who are primarily focused on PvP I've noticed from the Hunter and Warrior boards) would have you believe. As for g-heal being a channeled spell and therefore interruptable. PWS yourself first, then cast it if you're worried you're going to draw aggro. * Well that, and the reduced number of people who don't understand aggro management and push, push, push for DPS without the tools to not get squished. I'm not blowing a full bar of mana saving some Mage who wanted to see how many times they could get fireball to crit, or who decided that blizzard was the appropriate tool for a 3 mob pull. They bitch at me about their 2-3g repair cost afterwards, but better them than the tanks, IMO. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: SurfD on January 25, 2006, 06:38:23 AM If fewer priests use it as a channeled spell, well I dunno, they're goofy. The problem with any spell that is channeled is the vulnerability you have to interruption. I can interrupt non-channeled spells constantly - never pay the mana for it - until I let the casting go the full casting time before the spell is released. This is part of the reason I think druids complain their group heal is not viable - channelling any heal makes you vulnerable to interruption with consumate mana loss. Hate to say it, but any druid makeing that claim is should be quite litterally told to learn2play. There is a reason Druids got Barkskin. It's a castable buff on a short cooldown that prevents interuption on all spells, reduces damage taken, and has the negative side effect effect of increasing cast time on spells by 1 second (totally irrelevant on any channeled spell) . Any competent Resto Druid has Barkskin and Tranquility worked into the same macro. One click activates Barkskin, second click activates Tranquility, and no fear of interuption from an errant mele mob. Hell, as a mage I would KILL for a spell like barkskin. The only thing we have that comes close is IceBarrier (only acchevable through lots of points in frost talents) or Mana Shield, which sucks up your mana AND is completely useless against most mobs your level for any kind of real interuption prevention. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Dren on January 25, 2006, 12:15:54 PM Looks like changes for 60th level priests doing raids. As for my lvl 45 shadow priest, these suck. I fully plan on switching to more of a healing priest at 60, but for now I'm mostly solo'ing. Right now shadowform and inner fire suits me just fine and saves my butt constantly. As a human priest my only complaint is having a lot harder time managing mana stores than my paladin, mage, or warlock. I was hoping to see some changes that could address that. Now, my main problem is that I do not have any items that increase my mana regen, so I'm not all that disappointed. I know it will only get better as I get better items.
As for lvl 60 pvp priests, do they stick with shadow? I guess I thought people would still expect them to serve as healers. Although, I wouldn't expect pvp healers to just stand in one place healing just one person like they normally do in PvE raids. Yup, seems to only address PvE uber raids. Thus, a wet dream from some forum whore. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 25, 2006, 12:44:45 PM Yup, seems to only address PvE uber raids. Thus, a wet dream from some forum whore. You do realize that is the issue right? Here, I'll sum it up for you: Shadow Priests, even at 60, are currently (considered to be) too uber. Holy Priests, at any level, are currently way to fucking weak. 1.10 is going to be the priest revamp. What will happen in 1.10 is going to be one of two possibilties: A) Shadow Priests get HEAVILY nerfed, to the point of uselessness, and holy priests will be slightly buffed, so that it will become viable in raids (but not in pvp). Priests will be dead to PvP. B) Shadow Priests will get slightly nerfed, enough to be weak but not 100% useless but they will not be the 1v1 gods they are today (and they will still be gimp in group pvp), and holy priests will be slightly buffed, so that they will become viable in raids (but not in pvp). Priests will be dead to PvP for mediocre players, but good players will still find a niche for them. Those are the only two choices on the table. You should expect a major nerf to Shadow Priests in 1.10 and be happy if you only get mostly nerfed. There is no possibility Shadow Priests will escape without a nerf of some kind. 1.10 is a patch for holy priests only, one of the things holy priests are crying is "Nerf Shadow, we don't want that anyways!!1!".. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on January 25, 2006, 01:21:12 PM This disc-holy priest says, "Leave shadow the fuck alone. In fact, take the holy damage stuff and stick it in shadow where it belongs, or at least Discipline. 31 points in the healing tree for an AOE nuke? WTF?"
But I know that won't happen either. I feel bad for shadow priests, because I expect what Cevik's saying. Holy priests have been bitching that exact "we don't want shadow" line for a long time now. Even other classes have started to shout-down the L60 shadows becaise 'they don't heal. lrn ur role nub!' or 'they're too uber.' Blizz may SAY they don't listen to forum whines when considering design balance, but there's been too much contrary evidence. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 25, 2006, 01:37:24 PM But I know that won't happen either. I feel bad for shadow priests, because I expect what Cevik's saying. Holy priests have been bitching that exact "we don't want shadow" line for a long time now. Even other classes have started to shout-down the L60 shadows becaise 'they don't heal. lrn ur role nub!' or 'they're too uber.' Blizz may SAY they don't listen to forum whines when considering design balance, but there's been too much contrary evidence. Which is why I rerolled to warlock. Same types of damage, same basic design as a shadow priest (only SL means 30% dr and only 3% damage increase, unlike the shadow 15%/15%), 100% less "ZOMFG HEAL NUB".. I'd like to point out that I re-rolled to warlock back when they were "gimp" and before they were considered to be teh uber. And I re-rolled to warlock BECAUSE my priest was eating them alive and I wanted to see if they really sucked that much (they don't, but they are hard, and aren't nearly as overpowered as people claim they are). Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Dren on January 25, 2006, 01:37:37 PM I don't get that though. Basically you said the only thing Shadow Priests are good at is solo pve up to 60 and 1on1 pwning. Who cares? They don't do well (out of place) for group PvP and they are kicked out of PvE raids. So the reaction is to make it even harder to level that class to 60 and then only leave them with the option of being the healing bitch forever after (even though that is really their only option anyway?)
I did say I can solo quests pretty well, but I didn't say it is better than any other class. It is STILL the slowest of the 5 I've been working (Paladin, warlock, rogue, druid....ok, druid is probably slower.) I constantly hear bitching about there not being enough priests available. The main bitch I hear is that it is just too painfully slow to level them and I somewhat agree since I have other alts to compare to. (mana always gone, can't make water, health always low, spend too much time resting between fights, etc.) It looks like it comes down to people being pissed because s-priests pwn in 1on1's. That is not a reason to balance. /boggle Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Dren on January 25, 2006, 01:39:12 PM But I know that won't happen either. I feel bad for shadow priests, because I expect what Cevik's saying. Holy priests have been bitching that exact "we don't want shadow" line for a long time now. Even other classes have started to shout-down the L60 shadows becaise 'they don't heal. lrn ur role nub!' or 'they're too uber.' Blizz may SAY they don't listen to forum whines when considering design balance, but there's been too much contrary evidence. Which is why I rerolled to warlock. Same types of damage, same basic design as a shadow priest (only SL means 30% dr and only 3% damage increase, unlike the shadow 15%/15%), 100% less "ZOMFG HEAL NUB".. I'd like to point out that I re-rolled to warlock back when they were "gimp" and before they were considered to be teh uber. And I re-rolled to warlock BECAUSE my priest was eating them alive and I wanted to see if they really sucked that much (they don't, but they are hard, and aren't nearly as overpowered as people claim they are). I like my warlock way more than my priest, but I agree, they aren't uber. If you play them just right though, they can do quite well in many situations. Locks are just plain fun to play. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Zane0 on January 25, 2006, 01:41:13 PM Quote In what bizarro universe is feedback good enough? A weapon buff? For a priest racial spell? You must play horde. [/i] I have no idea what feedback is, but a 10% spirit bonus and desperate prayer puts humans in pretty high standing already, I'd say. The theoretical Elune's Clarity changes very little, and is rather stupid as well.I usually strongly disagree with the priest boards when it comes to their weighing of stats, but I do think they are correct for generally disliking Gheal. Its mana efficiency compared to Fheal simply isn't worth the associated risks of having such a long cast time. Furthermore, overhealing is more punishing on Gheal than Fheal, and often nullifies its theoretical advantage. Right now, our priest team can essentially spam FH all through BWL, a very safe strategy, and run into mana difficulties in only the rarest of occasions, in which case an innervate quickly solves the problem. Long healing is more a realm for the Druids at the moment, who have a much nicer spell, Healing Touch, that is in fact, more mana efficient (http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~racecar/healbot1.29.swf) than Gheal. This mock patch is obviously a creation of the community. I do think that having a channeled Gheal would be a good idea however, so long as it wasn't too overpowered. Instead of the current dynamic where some people try to make Gheal a sort of esoteric wonder spell that no one understands, Priests would have an actual choice: Gheal would be good in controlled conditions with a single target and no interruptions to the cast. Fheal would be good in chaotic conditions with multiple tanks, squishies to keep up, and a lot of movement. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 25, 2006, 01:49:23 PM It looks like it comes down to people being pissed because s-priests pwn in 1on1's. That is not a reason to balance. /boggle The general (and stupid) argument is this: Shadow Priests pwn in 1v1. Holy Priests suck. Holy Priests must suck because Shadow is Overpowered and the Developers are concerned that if they buff Holy Priests, it will make Shadow Priests WAY overpowered. Holy Priests Don't Care About Shadow Priests. Holy Priests respectfully request a Shadow Priest nerf so that there is "room" for the developers to buff Holy Priests. The problem of course is that the ONLY Holy Priests (well.. 95% of all Holy Priests) have already used Shadow to get to level 60, and don't have to worry about leveling anymore, don't PvP, and thus are perfectly fine with nerfing Shadow to support their cause. They don't have to sit in bgs and get one shot because of the nerf, they don't have to grind on mobs to get level 45, the only thing they do is play heal bot in raids. Shadow priests are, for the most part, comfortable with their power (but are hardly overpowered like Hunters), and thus the vocal part of the priest community is the "Nerf Shadow and Buff Holy" part.. In the end, I've resigned my Shadow Priest to Heal Bot status (I'll wait for the patch to get the free respec for him) and I'm already almost rank 6 on my lock (in 40-49 bgs right now) and will probably make it to rank 8 before I head on up to 60 (thus I'll have some good gear banked for the 60s bg when I get there.. and I have a good pvp team to work with as well!).. As for the rest of the people, pwning in 1v1 means an immediate cry for nerf. Just go read the Warlock boards any day of the week. Even though warlocks are really good at (one) 1v1, but balance out well in group pvp, warlocks are going to get a major nerf in the next couple of patchs (mark my words).. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Phred on January 25, 2006, 01:59:43 PM I did say I can solo quests pretty well, but I didn't say it is better than any other class. It is STILL the slowest of the 5 I've been working (Paladin, warlock, rogue, druid....ok, druid is probably slower.) I didn't particularly find the priest I leveled slow. With bubble and wand and mind flay I made it quite quickly to the low 50's where my build finally got shadowform. Only thing I had to do was make sure I was well stocked with water all the time. Now my druid, on the other hand, I wait for full rest bonus to even play. Quote I constantly hear bitching about there not being enough priests available. The main bitch I hear is that it is just too painfully slow to level them and I somewhat agree since I have other alts to compare to. (mana always gone, can't make water, health always low, spend too much time resting between fights, etc.) It looks like it comes down to people being pissed because s-priests pwn in 1on1's. That is not a reason to balance. /boggle Nope but that's been how Blizzard has done it every time. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 25, 2006, 02:03:08 PM I like my warlock way more than my priest, but I agree, they aren't uber. If you play them just right though, they can do quite well in many situations. Locks are just plain fun to play. Yeah, warlock has the same abilities as priest, plus a whole bunch more that makes them much more dynamic killing machines. WSG is THE reason we're going to get a major nerf though. WSG is the IDEAL place for a warlock, wide open areas with people filing through in clumps of 1-3 at a time. Because of the layout of WSG and the general stupidity of the PUGs I encounter, I can easily kill 3 at a time in there (fear + seduce + kiting + wide flat areas + stupid people == pwnage). The problem is, of course, that I can't do that anywhere else.. wsg was just designed as a warlock meat grinder and thus, because people stupidly jump right into the trap every time (and don't use a single fucking bit of sense), they will cry "omfg warlocks pwn" until we get nerfed.. :( I swear to god, twice now I've stood in front of the alliance tunnel in wsg (waiting on my flag runner to provide mid support for him) and killed the exact same warrior 10 times in a row. I mean literally, without a single other person coming along, killed THE SAME GUY 10 times in a row without him ever standing a chance against me. It's not that I'm good, it's that he didn't change his strategy (spawn, jump off cliff, run directly at me while I sick my felpuppy on him, fear, dot, sbolt, fear, sbolt, fear, dc if he closes the gap, sbolt, shadowburn, dead). There are a dozen things he could have done to combat that (even without a single anti-fear skill (which he has) he could have just not jumped directly off the cliff and ran at me, use some common sense, go tunnel or ramp and try to catch me off guard or take me from a direction that doesn't let me use range to my advantage), but instead of using skill he just kept trying the same pointless exercise. Stupid people like that are the ones you see crying nerf on the message boards, and those guys are the ones who are going to get us nerfed.. :( Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Zetor on January 25, 2006, 02:04:57 PM Actually, I think the Death Coil buff was a bit too much (and I've been playing my warlock since november 2004). It is supposed to be THE defensive skill for 'locks, but (while fulfilling that role adequately), it's far too effective as an offensive weapon. I wouldn't mind the range getting nerfed to 10yd or so. Make it the 'warlock scatter shot' if you will. Oh, and remove wotf. :P
-- Z. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Phred on January 25, 2006, 02:05:21 PM Quote In what bizarro universe is feedback good enough? A weapon buff? For a priest racial spell? You must play horde. [/i] I have no idea what feedback is, but a 10% spirit bonus and desperate prayer puts humans in pretty high standing already, I'd say. The theoretical Elune's Clarity changes very little, and is rather stupid as well.mana efficient (http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~racecar/healbot1.29.swf) than Gheal.Feedback is the only racial specific spell human priests get. http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=13896 They share desperate prayer with dwarves. All humans get increased spirit. Feedback is probably the most useless priest spell in the game. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 25, 2006, 02:15:37 PM Actually, I think the Death Coil buff was a bit too much (and I've been playing my warlock since november 2004). It is supposed to be THE defensive skill for 'locks, but (while fulfilling that role adequately), it's far too effective as an offensive weapon. I wouldn't mind the range getting nerfed to 10yd or so. Make it the 'warlock scatter shot' if you will. Oh, and remove wotf. :P -- Z. 1 spell on a 2 minute timer doesn't bring a class from gimp to "teh most uberast clas evar in teh game" as all the hunters and rogues are trying to claim we are. Unfortunately I think the nerf will be WAY bigger than reducing the range of dc. And what sucks about that is, the only nerf that is really needed is to reduce the range to 10 yards.. EDIT: The problem with locks before dc, and the reason dc helped so much, is that once a melee closes the gap and gets close to the lock, it's game over. None of their spells are castable. Every other caster has at least one ability to counteract this (Priests get an insta-castable shield and can also get focus casting, Mages get blink, frost nova and pom, and , druids can shapeshift and/or they have barkskin, plus nature's switfness, Shaman are hybrids that get mail armor (for god's sake), etc etc). In fact, every single one of the listed abilities help with MULTIPLE melees, except locks, who had nothing before, and now have a single targeted 3 second insta cast fear on a 2 minute cooldown. Any nerf that happens to dc HAS to take this into account, what locks need is a way to continue casting when a melee is on them, if they don't have that, they are crippled as a class. PvE is fine because they have vw's to tank for them.. and no.. nothing silly like allowing taunt to work on a melee in pvp is going to work, addons will overcome that in 2 days.. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Zane0 on January 25, 2006, 02:25:48 PM Shrug, I'd rather have a good ability shared by other races than a uniquely bad ability. Priest racials with exception to Dwarf and Human ones have very limited PvE application, or very little application at all in some cases. For instance, I'm pretty sure my wand can out-dps starshards.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 25, 2006, 02:27:47 PM Shrug, I'd rather have a good ability shared by other races than a uniquely bad ability. Priest racials with exception to Dwarf and Human ones have very limited PvE application, or very little application at all in some cases. For instance, I'm pretty sure my wand can out-dps starshards. Devouring Plague. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: jpark on January 25, 2006, 02:35:44 PM Yup, seems to only address PvE uber raids. Thus, a wet dream from some forum whore. You do realize that is the issue right? Here, I'll sum it up for you: Shadow Priests, even at 60, are currently (considered to be) too uber. Holy Priests, at any level, are currently way to fucking weak. 1.10 is going to be the priest revamp. What will happen in 1.10 is going to be one of two possibilties: A) Shadow Priests get HEAVILY nerfed, to the point of uselessness, and holy priests will be slightly buffed, so that it will become viable in raids (but not in pvp). Priests will be dead to PvP. B) Shadow Priests will get slightly nerfed, enough to be weak but not 100% useless but they will not be the 1v1 gods they are today (and they will still be gimp in group pvp), and holy priests will be slightly buffed, so that they will become viable in raids (but not in pvp). Priests will be dead to PvP for mediocre players, but good players will still find a niche for them. Those are the only two choices on the table. You should expect a major nerf to Shadow Priests in 1.10 and be happy if you only get mostly nerfed. There is no possibility Shadow Priests will escape without a nerf of some kind. 1.10 is a patch for holy priests only, one of the things holy priests are crying is "Nerf Shadow, we don't want that anyways!!1!".. Quoted for emphasis. The holy tree sucks in so far as while we can debate how useless it is - nobody takes for 31 points. I was a discipline Priest and on raids was the number 2 priest and number 3 overall (percent healed and overhealing adjusted). Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Zane0 on January 25, 2006, 02:41:30 PM Exceptions, but racials are still so unbalanced that, if not fixed in this patch, should essentially be scrapped / incorporated into talents imo. I don't see Devouring Plague, or any racial for that matter as comparable to say, fear ward, which arguably trivializes entire boss encounters.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Morfiend on January 25, 2006, 02:45:46 PM Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 25, 2006, 04:32:56 PM A) Shadow Priests get HEAVILY nerfed, to the point of uselessness, and holy priests will be slightly buffed, so that it will become viable in raids (but not in pvp). Priests will be dead to PvP. ... Personally getting sick of the shadow = PVP spec argument. I leveled up in a duo with my brother's warrior on my 2nd 60 priest and started off going shadow. When we started doing BGs a lot in our 30s I respecced to holy cause pvp is fucking shit without improved flash heal. Mind blast is for assisting the train when you don't need to heal, to finish off someone who is going to get away, or to snipe kills off the dps classes for a laugh. SW:P is for stopping rogues and druids from stealthing. Otherwise flash heal, renew, PW:S, psy scream, and inner fire are all you need to use to get your job done in PVP. Why people gotta roll a healing class, turn it into a subpar (woo, 3 offensive spells gogo) dps class is beyond me, but if you do stop saying shit like "shadow = pvp tree" cause its BULLSHIT. Also, if you get spirit tap, Imp SW:P, and mindflay you can level very quickly. The damage talents can easily be made up by wearing more +damage gear most shadow priests ignore while leveling up. The base class just suffers from the lack of those 3 talents. With those 3 I was able to grind 20ish mobs before needing to drink by using a mindblast->SW:P->Mindflay->wand->mindblast->renew->autowand sequence. A sequence that only works properly with those 3 talents. It's the inability to do that sequence that makes solo pve as a holy priest suck donkey balls, not the loss of damage talents. Shadow can get buffed or it can get nerfed, I really don't give a toss. The argument that you can't buff holy priests because of shadow has some merit though. Shadow priests are already quite powerful in 1v1 PVP, if you buff up their defense they would easily become overpowered in 1v1 PVP. And that's the kicker, if Blizz balanced for 1v1 I'd be worried, but they supposedly don't. Also there's no guarantees that they see a survivability buff as a good thing for holy priests regardless. Personally I want to see GHeal hit 3 seconds with talents like the druid HT, be able to pick up divine spirit at 11 points like paladins with kings now, the +% healing talents to scale with gear like the +% damage ones (why the fuck it isn't done I have no idea), let PW:S get some coefficient for +healing gear, and be able to get imp flash heal with less points sunk into the tree. That's all I REALLY want. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: jpark on January 25, 2006, 08:46:30 PM .When we started doing BGs a lot in our 30s I respecced to holy cause pvp is fucking shit without improved flash heal ? Not only do I get Gheals off in pvp....I have actually got group heals off several times with most group members in range. Part of this will be due to the discipline tree - forget the name of the latent - that gives you 8 seconds of uninterruptable cast (from damage) on a 2 minute timer. You can get 2 consecutive big ass heals off using that talent while someone beats on you. Flash heals are for the lazy :wink: Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 26, 2006, 02:09:51 AM Well... what you just said is not possible from my point of view. I don't know if its my server or what, but I sometimes cant get off a flash heal i started right when people first get hurt and they die before i get it off. Also I get every pet on me as soon as im spotted not to mention rogues and warriors such that i never get off a flash heal before dying unless I have FH talent or my focussed casting is off cooldown and I don't get purged. The assist trains are nasty here... 3-5 people hitting the same target... you ain ever gonna gheal that. Hell many times a shield+flash combo wont keep up with the burst damage.
EDIT: That is not to say it is ALWAYS like that of course, but it happened often enough for me to get pissed off at it and respec. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Sairon on January 26, 2006, 03:40:11 AM Well... what you just said is not possible from my point of view. I don't know if its my server or what, but I sometimes cant get off a flash heal i started right when people first get hurt and they die before i get it off. Also I get every pet on me as soon as im spotted not to mention rogues and warriors such that i never get off a flash heal before dying unless I have FH talent or my focussed casting is off cooldown and I don't get purged. The assist trains are nasty here... 3-5 people hitting the same target... you ain ever gonna gheal that. Hell many times a shield+flash combo wont keep up with the burst damage. EDIT: That is not to say it is ALWAYS like that of course, but it happened often enough for me to get pissed off at it and respec. It's all about the timing, sometimes you have to start the cast before the target takes any dmg whatsoever. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 26, 2006, 06:29:51 AM So they die before my next flash heal can land?
My point was that people die fast and so I can't be casting no heal that is extended to 6 seconds because some wanker's frenzied pet is interupting me every 1/2 second. Basically if a hunter with the right pet sicks his cat/bat onto you and aimshots through your shield you will not cast a heal before dying unless you have imp flash heal or your focussed casting is up... IF you don't get purged, and then only for 8 seconds. Frankly, anyone who was making a pure PVP healer would be a total dumbass not to get the talent. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 26, 2006, 07:28:31 AM Personally getting sick of the shadow = PVP spec argument. ... Why people gotta roll a healing class, turn it into a subpar (woo, 3 offensive spells gogo) dps class is beyond me, but if you do stop saying shit like "shadow = pvp tree" cause its BULLSHIT. Quote I don't know if its my server or what, but I sometimes cant get off a flash heal i started right when people first get hurt and they die before i get it off. Also I get every pet on me as soon as im spotted not to mention rogues and warriors such that i never get off a flash heal before dying unless I have FH talent or my focussed casting is off cooldown and I don't get purged. The assist trains are nasty here... 3-5 people hitting the same target... you ain ever gonna gheal that. Hell many times a shield+flash combo wont keep up with the burst damage. You answered your own question. Holy priests have the least damage mitigation of any of the caster classes (no ice armor, ice block, no snares of any kind, no soul link, no bear form, no shadow form.. no damage mitigation) and are THE most targeted class of them all. I can eat through a holy priest before his improved flash heal lands (curse of tongues, spell lock, fear interrupts, death coil, etc.. just last night I went 1v1 against a holy priest 5 levels higher than me and she never once got a single spell off, I killed her with full hp and 75% mana, two quick life taps and a canibilize and it was like she was never even there). Shadow priests on the other hand, have damage mitigation that rivals mail wearers (cevik hangs out at about 56% damage reduction against even levels), a 50% snare (granted it's chaneled, but it still helps A LOT), vampiric embrace, a faster cooldown on his damage spell, a faster cooldown on his aoe fear, a 15% damage increase from shadowform, a 10% damage increase from talents, another 15% damage increase, shareable to the entire party, from talents, silence, and has a 10% chance to stun when he lands a spell, for even more escape abilities.. Plus the ability to drop shadow form and switch to fast shields or focused casting to land heals when he needs to provide heal support. My typical PUG AB goes like this: Start by buffing my party. /p "tired of not getting heals in BG? GO TO LM, FREE HEALS FOR THE FIRST 5 CUSTOMERS." Get bombarded with tells of "fort", explain that fort takes 1/3rd of my mana, and I can only cast 3 at a time, get more tells of "fort". Mount. Run to LM. Stop at the bottom of the hill, turn around and /p "CHARGE LM, FREE HEALS WHEN YOU ARRIVE". Wait for everyone to pass me. Run up to LM, stand behind the stump, cast 3 or 4 heals before getting mass targeted. Use sheilds, fears, and focus casting to get 3 or 4 more heals off. Die. Spawn at farm, run back to LM and heal up the wounded. Get abandoned at LM as everyone, stupidly, rushes stables. Switch to shadow form and guard lm. Get jumped by rogues, fear them off, use sheilds, focus casting, and skillz0rz to pwn them. Laugh as they think they can take a shadow priest.. Shadowpriests are the PvP spec because you aren't a one trick healing pony. You can heal as well as a holy priest in the time that you have (face it, holy spec is mainly to increase mana effecientcy, and you don't have enough time for healing to worry about mana), and you can also go shadow if you get caught 1v1 and melt faces. It is the PvP spec. Almost half the high warlords on my server since I started playing have been priests, and none of them were holy (and we currently have 3 shadow priests right now in the top 20 and all working on becoming HW in the next few weeks, one of them I've pvped with quite a bit). Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 26, 2006, 08:14:44 AM You are wrong.
Shadow is obviously the PVP spec for you. Maybe it is even the PVP spec for all people who actually PVP without 2 wingmen at the very least and/or do not fancy the support role. For me? Definately not. Had I only cared about PVE I would probably still be shadow as the changes mean less there than in PVP for me, and are definately not worth nerfing my solo farming ability so far (I can pot like a whore in PVE if needed). What I object to is people saying that it is "THE" PVP spec just because it suits how they personally PVP. What the high ranked pvpers do means very little unless you're talking BG strats. A glory-fiend who likes killing other players is in the DPS spec? Colour me surprised. I bet the druids are feral and the paladins are ret too, huh? Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 26, 2006, 08:38:28 AM You are wrong. No.. I'm very right. But you can do what you please, doesn't bother me... Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: bhodi on January 26, 2006, 09:24:32 AM Even though it may not be worth playing a holy specc'd priest, I find a restoration specc'd druid is a lot of fun to play. Sure, you get targeted, but the fact is I can live almost indefinately versus any 1 other class and can survive a 2v1 with any but stunlocking rogues for a good length of time until help arrives.
With warstomp (nerf cows), nature's swiftness, high chance to continue spellcasting, decent armor, the ability to kite w/ shapeshifting, nature's grasp, remove curse and poison (I never see anyone else use these!), and regrowth+rejuv, and, of course, innervate, I'm pretty damn good bait. In AV I've got it made; no one charge me and live and no rogue can stun-kill me before either nature's grasp or my teammates rip him a new one. In AB it's a little more difficult, but I can make people's life hell with some quick spellwork -- they can't kill me quickly, and all the time they'er trying not only am I rooting and kiting but I'm also throwing instant heals on my party members. In essence, I'm too much of a threat to ignore but too difficult to kill quickly even if two or three people are targeting me. I can also cast about 10 MotW with one mana bar; that helps too. In WSG, of course, I simply drink a free action potion and shift to cat form and sprint out of the flag room while the super mario brother's invincible theme music plays. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Dren on January 26, 2006, 10:00:00 AM You are wrong. No.. I'm very right. But you can do what you please, doesn't bother me... You two are talking about two different things. Calantus, you are not a shadow priest until you get Shadowform. Before that, yes, you are a weak non-holy specced priest and it sucks. Seriously, shadowform is where that tree takes firm hold on being viable. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Kageru on January 26, 2006, 04:08:08 PM And if the changes are to be believe then the real combination is shadow form + inner fire giving much higher mitigation than was intended (warrior level). It would be a shame if inner fire got nerfed because of that use though. I think it's more or less mandatory that fear ward ceases to be a racial spell. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Teleku on January 26, 2006, 04:20:27 PM I'd just like to say that I'm in a guild thats working its way through BWL, and of the 8 main priest we have, 6 of us are Shadow spec (other two are Disc). You can raid fine with shadow. Holy spec gives no big buff to your healing really, just more efficency. Which means the other Shadow Priest and I just have to be a little more carefull in mana usage, and maybe use a pot or two to compensate at particular fights. Hopefully, making Holy tree not so worthless and having it actually increase your healing power is what they will do, making it a viable option. And hopefully leave Shadow alone (or maybe buff it a bit :p).
Then again, I'm in a rather casual non-asshole guild. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 26, 2006, 05:54:21 PM You are wrong. No.. I'm very right. But you can do what you please, doesn't bother me... You two are talking about two different things. Calantus, you are not a shadow priest until you get Shadowform. Before that, yes, you are a weak non-holy specced priest and it sucks. Seriously, shadowform is where that tree takes firm hold on being viable. You act like I've never played full shadow before. My previous 60 priest was a reroll I needed to hit 60 asap so I of course specced shadow and twinked the hell out of them. I saw the power of a shadow priest and I /yawned. Yeah I can kill mounted people with 2 dots and a mindflay. Yeah I can own somebody's face before they have time to do much of anything... but it just wasn't what I was looking for. I've had only 4 chars over lvl 40... shaman, druid, priest, priest (oh, and the next highest char was a 39 paladin)... obviously I like healing, that is what I rolled my priests to do. If I wanted DPS I'd have rolled a mage or warlock or rogue or hunter, and hey I did, they just never got higher than 30 for some mysterious reason. I take that liking of healing into PVP and so my talent spec is built to support that role in PVP. Therefore my PVP spec is disc/holy that gives me slightly stronger heals, bigger mana pool, multiple protections against interruption, and higher survivability with higher armor and faster shields. Oh but wait, holy is for PVE and shadow is for PVP!! Whatever. Reroll mage or warl... oh wait. Also, the shadow priest has to be one of the most boring dps specs/classes in the world. It takes very little skill to choose which of your 3 damage spells to use, especially considering 1 is a DoT and 1 is on a cooldown. My 20 warlock has more variety already. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Alkiera on January 26, 2006, 05:59:31 PM Seem to be lots of knowledgeable healer players here... how much different is a paly built for healing, from a priest, or druid, or whatever, also built for healing? I get that druids seem to be setup for heal-over-time, and while they have direct heals, they aren't neccesarily as efficient or whatever. Mostly, I'm curious how a paly plays as a healer at higher levels.
Alkiera Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 26, 2006, 06:53:24 PM From a raiding perspective...
Paladins are the most efficient healers in the game, but they really lack in the ability to deal with massive spikes of damage and healing multiple people atonce. It seems to me that the best way for a paladin to heal is to stack spell crit, mana regen, and +healing to spam flash of light constantly on a target, acting like a souped up renew that can stack with itself (multiple paladins). Druids are the next most efficient healers in the game. There seems to be 2 "best" ways to heal as a druid. The first is only good for 1 druid, and what they do is basically keep both their HoT spells on the tank all the time. The other way is to chain lowish level HTs with mass +healing and mana conserve so they only land when needed. A druid doing this will almost never run out of mana due to the combination of efficient heals and only a few landing here and there. Priests are the best at dealing with spikes of damage with their fast, strong flash heal. One priest needs to keep up renew and the others just spam flash heal with mana conserve. They CAN play like a druid with GHeals but if you have the druids to do it they are better at it so you might as well not bother. Shaman are basically the same as priests in this regard. What we do is ideally have enough priests to reliably deal with spikes before they have a chance of killing the tank, paladins to keep the tank topped off between spikes to spare priest mana, and druids trying to land their heals in spikes for faster spike recovery and saving priest mana (if all the priests run out so fast they are all recovering the tank will die as the other classes don't have enough fast HPS). It changes depending on how many we have available for a task and what the task entails, but for MT healing that's how we go. For 5mans its all basically the same. The exact mana/health ratios and seconds on the cast differ, but the basic strategies are the same. Use your big heal whenever you can, use your smaller heal when you just need to top someone up or need them healed asap (unless you're a paladin), keep your HoTs up as often as you can if you have any. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 27, 2006, 05:46:31 AM Therefore my PVP spec is disc/holy that gives me slightly stronger heals, bigger mana pool, multiple protections against interruption, and higher survivability with higher armor and faster shields. See, you keep throwing total bullshit into your statement, which makes it appear that you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Holy priests are incapable of having "higher survivability", even with the discipline talent of improved inner fire, you don't get the 15% damage reduction of shadowform. What you are saying DOESN'T PAN OUT. And guess what: You can have improved inner fire with shadow builds as well. So you can stack that 45% increase of inner fire with shadowform.. I promise you don't "higher survivability with higher armor" than a shadow priest. Furthermore, the "faster shields" thing is another disc talent, not a holy talent. And guess what, there isn't a single shadow priest (worth mentioning) in the game who doesn't ALSO have that talent. All the things you keep claiming for your uber healing pvp holy spec are part of the default shadow spec. So that in the future you can actually be informed, here is my shadow spec.. And before you start claiming to have a better fort buff than me, notice that I took the improved fort talent off the disc tree as well: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests/talents.html?50023212300000000000000000000550202510015151 I invite everyone to go look at the holy tree to see what calantus is gaining over me. Aside from an improved smite (ohh yay), reduced threat generation (go go reduced threat in pvp!) and a 70% chance to not have one spell interrupted, he gains mana efficiency and a nice pretty spirit that tells everyone on the battlefield that he died. Yay for holy! Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 27, 2006, 06:25:03 AM You get a whole lot of talents I don't give a shit about, God I'm missing so much. Btw, I was listing what I spec for, not what holy gives me. Holy gives me 5% more crit on heals, 10% more healing, and 70% immunity to interruption from damage. I would make a pretty ghost that, since you know jack and fucking shit about being a holy priest in PVP, I will inform you does actually help and can swing the tides of battle. I would also increase someone's armor when I crit heal them, but right now I changed my spec around a bit for DS and subtlety to help in PVE since it's not too much of a sacrifice. And if you really wanna know, I'd pump 17 points into holy if ALL I got was that 70% non interuptability. Oh, and I have around 600 more mana due to the higher disc talent you don't pick up.
I'm sure your spec is lovely, though I must wonder why you didn't pick up the ranged talent, but it is not the "PVP" spec. It is the "DPS PVP" spec (although, not quite, you mixed in some pve there with spirit tap at the cost of more range), which is appropriate if you want to be doing damage in PVP. If you want to heal though... YOUR SPEC FUCKING SUCKS FOR IT. See where I'm coming from now? Oh and here's my pvp spec if you want to try and shoot it down. You will note it sucks if you want to do damage: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests/talents.html?50023215350000055500500202100000000000000000 Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Dren on January 27, 2006, 06:41:16 AM I don't care which build is better. I want the choice. Nerfing Shadow would be taking away that choice.
This just seems like the same ole "Grass is always greener..." If you feel weak and unused in the class and build you have, yell until you get your way and be damned all others. Keep it the way it is and adapt. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Ironwood on January 27, 2006, 06:57:52 AM Goodness, you guys are getting heated about this.
I think I'll send the wife in (disc/holy but different from Cal) to tell you that you're both FUCKING MORONS. Or something. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 27, 2006, 07:11:14 AM If you want to heal though... YOUR SPEC FUCKING SUCKS FOR IT. See where I'm coming from now? But it doesn't, that's the key you are missing, the ONLY THING you have over me in healing is that you have more mana effeciency, and since I never run out of mana, that's not much of an advantage. Even at those long ass fights for LM I have plenty of mana to keep people healed, and I pop an AB faction ration when we're done and, just like that, I'm ready to go. In addition, if I ever get caught 1v1, a quick (and very mana cheap) switch to shadowform means I'm a million times more versatile than your one trick pony of a spec that only really buys you mana effeciency and 1 spell that is 70% uninterruptable. Add in mind flay, blackout, silence, vampiric embrace, improved pyschic scream, improved shadow word:pain, and improved mind blast, suddenly I'm about a million times more versitile than a holy priest. And that talent is pretty much useless, since with Focus Casting, Martyrdom, and Shielding, I spend a vast majority of every minute uninterruptable. I hardly see where 17 talent points, and gimping your character in 1v1 battles, is worth being 70% uninterruptable ON ONE SPELL for the ~10 out of every 60 seconds that you can be interrupted at all.. but your call, good luck with that.. Glad you're destined for a role of always running with wingmen, as you said above. I myself can pop over to mines and take it away from the 2 rogues stealthed there if needed (and the reality is, no matter how good your team is, sometimes shit like that is needed), or I can heal the warriors at bs if that's needed instead. And I still have spirit tap over ranged because I haven't respeced since I was leveling up. Sorta waiting on the 1.10 nerf which will likely include a free respec, rather than spending my cash on it. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Zetor on January 27, 2006, 07:23:43 AM Shadowform = no Inner Focus
Inner Focus = <3 Thus, 21/21/9 > 31/* in pve. :P -- Z. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 27, 2006, 07:26:14 AM Shadowform = no Inner Focus Inner Focus = <3 Thus, 21/21/9 > 31/* in pve. :P -- Z. I know nothing about pve specs.. and I'm proud of that fact. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Paelos on January 27, 2006, 10:05:30 AM Man this thread got stupid in a hurry. Why does it matter what the hell your spec is in PvP? You're a fucking priest, people will fall over themselves to get you in an group no matter what you're specc'd. In pve or pvp.
Comparing specs and debating your awesomeness is for the WoW forums. Nooblers. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Righ on January 27, 2006, 10:07:40 AM This is fast become the annex of the WoW forums. Hunters are overpowered, nerf hunters, etc.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: tazelbain on January 27, 2006, 10:09:07 AM Walken is overpowered. Nerf Walken.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Righ on January 27, 2006, 10:15:39 AM Yes, yes, he is - and that's Walken nerfed to fit in a short and small animation. The full power of Walken scares even Nyarlhotep.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Lt.Dan on January 27, 2006, 10:41:11 AM I got avatar inspired too. Walken On-line is so going to kick Baldwin On-line's ass.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: HaemishM on January 27, 2006, 11:12:41 AM I got avatar inspired too. Walken On-line is so going to kick Baldwin On-line's ass. Of course. Baldwin On-Line isn't allowed to have an ass, so his buttock will be thoroughly chastised by the power of Christ. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Dren on January 27, 2006, 01:07:49 PM Stop derailing the priest fights. My money's on shadow. They melt faces.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 27, 2006, 05:09:37 PM And I still have spirit tap over ranged because I haven't respeced since I was leveling up. So you haven't respeced yet, but you know the exact realworld value of the talents I have and I know nothing? Ok. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 27, 2006, 06:02:15 PM And I still have spirit tap over ranged because I haven't respeced since I was leveling up. So you haven't respeced yet, but you know the exact realworld value of the talents I have and I know nothing? Ok. Huh? You asked why I have 5 points in spirit tap, instead of 2 in ranged and 3 in shadow focus (the typical thing to do when you've respeced out of spirit tap, which is considered only good for leveling). If you think because I dont' have 2 points in shadow reach and 3 in shadow focus that I can't tell you how fucking VERY useful silence or mind flay or shadow form is, then you are actually as retarded as you look. Listen, if you want to have a virtual epeen waving contest about how very fucking many ab, wsg, and av's I've been in, fine, lets whip it out. Just because I haven't respeced out of spirit tap (since I've known FOREVER that 1.10 was going to bring a free respec) doesn't mean I don't know my character like the back of my fucking hand.. Let me guess, I can't tell you anything about the end game unless I have a level 60 with at least 5 epics, so I just need to stfu? Jesus, talk about degrading into the WoW boards.. we've made the leap. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on January 27, 2006, 06:19:32 PM O RLY?
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Paelos on January 27, 2006, 06:49:19 PM This thread sucks! :heartbreak:
(http://jovan.ru/pics2/kittens/killme.jpg) Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on January 27, 2006, 10:56:48 PM Let me rephrase: So you have been shadow the entire course of your priest's life, and yet you think you know the realworld worth of the talents I choose despite never having them yourself?
And this is not me saying my spec is great, I'm saying my spec is what *I* prefer in PVP, and its similar to a spec any PVP healer focussed priest would choose. This whole thing started off with me objecting to you saying shadow is "the pvp spec" when it's not. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Sachant on January 30, 2006, 02:01:21 PM My priest is Disc/Shadow Spec. No Holy. No Shadowform. Shadowform is best for PvE where you don't have to heal.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Dren on January 31, 2006, 07:48:42 AM My priest is Disc/Shadow Spec. No Holy. No Shadowform. Shadowform is best for PvE where you don't have to heal. Agreed. I plan to drop it as soon as I hit 60 since solo'ing (really only instance where non-healing pve happens) will not really be necessary at that point. I might try that Disc/Shadow. It kind of goes along with my own thinking at the moment. I'd like to be a diverse as possible to meet any need (pvp small group, pvp large group, pve small group, pve large group.) Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on January 31, 2006, 09:07:12 AM Let me rephrase: So you have been shadow the entire course of your priest's life, and yet you think you know the realworld worth of the talents I choose despite never having them yourself? No.. I'm up to extremely expensive respecs (50g) now that I've finally capped, and I'm waiting to respec again for when I get a free one. I've tried multiple specs, but since I only pvp, I have realized that the best (most versatile spec) is one that includes shadowform. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on February 13, 2006, 09:33:37 AM Wise fwom da gwabe!
It's looking like Fear-Ward will stay dwarf-only, which kinda sucks but I'm more than happy with the whole "feedback = damage shield" change for humans so I can live with it. I dunno how many of you read the priest boards. I try to avoid them, but saw This thread (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-priest&t=577886&p=1&tmp=1#post577886) friday and didn't see anyone talking about it here. The biggie was that Eyonix let it slip that Gheal will be a 3 second cast, down to 2.5 with talents as well as a 10% improvement in mana-efficiency. BIG change, and makes someone who's already good at timing their g-heal even happier, because I can watch more TV while raiding instead of having to worry about spamming 2-3 flash heals. (Wha? Don't look at me like that, all priests do it.) From the sound of things, it's also looking like they're going to leave Shadow relativly untouched. This is a GOOD thing. Discipline will be the mana-control tree and Healing will be (gasp) healing.. and Holy Fire will be an all-priest spell rather than a talent. (Um ok..not much use to me NOW other than to make the raid say "WTF was that?") With just these few changes, though, I'm a happy priest. The rest will be gravy, but you couldn't tell that from the Priest boards themselves. Good lord these fuckers whine like Mages. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on February 23, 2006, 10:03:51 AM Holy Crap, Holy's worth it.
I'm going to quote all of Eyonix's post (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-priest&t=648886&p=1&tmp=1#post648886) because the forums are acting screwey with everyone hammering them hoping for the talent calc link. Quote Minor Note: The Talent Calculator will be up momentariry. So the priest talent changes have been unveiled through the interactive calculator and I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what was revealed. My goal is only to outline a most of the changes, so it's likely that I might have left out something small here or there. I encourage players to take an extensive pass using the calculator which has been linked in the news post I created on the front page of our website. After reading my comments, please feel free to use this thread to discuss of any aspect of the priest talents. Going from left to right, I'll start the discussion off with the Discipline tree. You'll immediately notice that Wand Specialization has been made a first tier talent. I feel that this is great for two reasons. First, previously neither available tier 1 Discipline talents felt very exciting or rewarding when investing your points into them at early levels. I feel this is no longer the case. Second, you won't have to compete with Improved Power Word: Shield or Fortitude to receive this talent. Moving on to tier 2 talents, Silent Resolve will now reduce the threat caused by all spells, rather than simply damage spells. You're probably also noticing that Improved Power Word: Shield no longer reduces the duration of the weakened soul effect and I'm sure you're freaking out. Worry not, this is because the core ability, Power Word: Shield has been improved to only cause a weakened soul effect of 15 seconds, which previously required three talent points, hence the change detailed below. The Improved Power Word: Shield talent will now increase the damage absorbed by 15%. The new focused casting effect of Martyrdom increases resistance to Interrupt effects by 20%, in addition to preventing the caster from losing casting time when taking damage. Inner Focus as you can see is no longer a 21-point talent, and now available by investing only a mere ten points into the tree. Also, the cooldown has been reduced to three minutes. Competing with the ability is Meditation, also previously a 21-point talent. This still offers an increase to mana regeneration while casting by 15%, however, now only costs three points. Moving onto the 15-point talents, you can see that Improved Inner Fire remains the same. What we changed is the core ability. Next patch Inner Fire will provide 50% more armor than before. The duration will also be increased to ten minutes but now the effect will be removed when the caster endures twenty successful damaging melee or ranged hits. We've also increased the mana cost and removed the melee attack power boost from the ability as such offers the priest very little benefit. The new 21-point talents are Divine Spirit and Mental Strength. Finally, the new 31-point talent for the Discipline tree is called Power Infusion. This ability infuses the target with power, increasing spell damage and healing by 20% for 15 seconds, and can be used every three minutes. This spell is very similar to Arcane Power, however it can be cast on other players, enhances healing as well as damage, and doesn't increase the mana cost of spells cast while under its effect. This is a long thread, so bear with me... ;) I have a feeling most priests have been really curious to see what we've done with the Holy Tree. Well, fortunately the wait is over. You'll notice two things right off the bat. Improved Renew offers the same level of improvement for only three points, and a brand new talent is immediately available - Healing Focus. This talent, for only two points will gives players a 70% chance of avoiding interruption caused by damage when casting any healing spell. Next at the five-point mark you'll notice another brand new talent - Spell Warding, which reduces all damage taken by 10%. That which was previously a 21-point talent now stands next to it, Divine Fury. In addition to being available much sooner, this talent now reduces the casting time of Smite, Holy Fire, Heal and Greater Heal spells by 0.1 sec. Remember, with this talent (available very early in the tree) Greater Heal will cast in 2.5 seconds! I'm actually pretty excited about what's next. Holy Nova is now an eleven-point talent and has no cooldown whatsoever (of course universal global cooldown is still in-effect). This means that much like Improved Arcane Explosion, priests can spam small bursts of threatless holy goodness which both damages foes and heals friends. The mana cost has been increased, so it's not as efficient as before. We actually had alot of fun testing this spell in both PvE and PvP, and I'm excited to read through player feedback when this is live on the PTRs. Moving on to the competing eleven-point talents, another new ability is revealed, Blessed Recovery. This passive ability will heal 25% of the damage received over 6 seconds after being struck by a melee or critical ranged hit. Lastly, take a look at Inspiration. This talent now only costs three points. Holy Reach is another new talent available to the priests. For two points, players can increases the range of their Smite and Holy Fire spells and the radius of their Prayer of Healing and Holy Nova spells by 20%. Improved Healing has the same effect and is found in the same place, however, only three points need to be invested in order to gain the 15% mana cost reduction to those healing spells. The last talent on this tier is called Searing Light which increases the damage of Holy Fire and Smite by 10%. Don't forget, Holy Fire is now a core ability and the casting time reduced to 3.5 seconds. Which of course becomes 3 seconds with the appropriate talent (the same talent which also benefits the casting time of Heal and Greater Heal. Another great new passive ability talent - Spiritual Guidance, is located at the 21-point mark. This talent will permanently improve the priests spell damage and healing by up to 25% of their total spirit. Pretty nice boost, if I do say so myself. I must admit, the next improvement has me awfully excited. Spirit of Redemption, (you know that angel that lets everyone know you've died and that their probably about to die as well:), will now allow the priest to become the angel, upon death. For ten seconds, the priest can cast any healing spell completely free! This allows the strategic player much better control in preventing a wipe. As you can see the new 26-point talent is Spiritual Healing, which as before offers the priest a 10% increase to all healing spells. Placing points this far into the tree, assuming you've picked up Improved Renew and Spiritual Guidance will most definitely make the Holy Priest's heals stand out. It should be no surprise that the final rank Holy talent is brand new, seeing that Holy Nova is now an 11-point talent. This new spell, called Lightwell will create a holy lightwell near the priest. At final rank, friendly targets can click the lightwell to restore 1600 health over a period of ten seconds. The lightwell has five charges, meaning, up to five players can use the lightwell before it expires. Our testing has shown that this ability works great in both smaller dungeons and raids, often times allowing the lower maintenance party members to take advantage of the healing properties of this well, while the priest and other healing classes focused on the main tank or whomever was taking heavy damage. One other thing I'd like to mention before moving on to the Shadow tree is the fact that Focus Casting has been removed completely. Essentially, with the improvements to Martyrdom and the new talent Healing Focus, it wasn't as valuable a talent as before. So, what improvements have we made to Shadow you ask? You'll actually notice that very little changes were made, so fortunately, you're almost done reading my post. :) Shadow Affinity only costs three points now, instead of five. Improved Fade will no longer increase the duration of the spell, but rather decrease the cooldown by a total of six seconds. Shadow Weaving is available for 16-points. While Vampiric Embrace remains the same, a new talent is available called Improved Vampiric Embrace. For two points, the amount healed by Vampiric Embrace will be increased by 10%. Well, this pretty much sums up the changes. It's likely we'll make some more adjustments and tweaks based upon what's revealed through testing on the PTRs. As a priest, I'm excited. How about you guys? Post your thoughts... Sidenote: Try not to quote my entire thread, if possible please. Threads break much sooner that way, and I'd like to get as much out of this discussion thread as possible, before creating a "part 2". [ post edited by Eyonix ] Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Rasix on February 23, 2006, 10:30:09 AM I should have rolled a priest. Goddamn.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Paelos on February 23, 2006, 10:46:50 AM Holy, holy tree Batman!
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Jobu on February 23, 2006, 11:28:43 AM This makes me want to dust off my priest... but meh. I still don't like healbotting, not matter how efficient they make it.
Some mages are going to be happy. Power Infusion stacked with Arcane Power and the epic trinkets will equal some INSAAAANE damage. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: MrHat on February 23, 2006, 11:30:15 AM This makes me want to dust off my priest... but meh. I still don't like healbotting, not matter how efficient they make it. Some mages are going to be happy. Power Infusion stacked with Arcane Power and the epic trinkets will equal some INSAAAANE damage. Purge ftw. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on February 23, 2006, 11:38:07 AM http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html
The holy tree is insane now. It's survivability and healing rolled into one and that's ALL I care about so I'm stoked. Disc tree got streamlined a little and some talents got moved down. So happy I can grab meditation nice and low in the tree so as not to have to choose between my raiding spec and PVP spec. I'm currently hovering between 2 main specs and 2 variations each, which way I go is largely gonna depend on how good the 31 holy talent turns out to be. Gonna be tough waiting for the test server now. :-( Also shadow PVP got nerfed fairly hard IMO with the removal of focussed casting. The other changes it got don't make up for it much at all for PVP. They got buffed nicely for PVE though with more healing from vamp embrace, less points for shad affinity, and access to meditation. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: MrHat on February 23, 2006, 11:41:48 AM I can totally see a holy build for PvP that would just rock. Again, depends how good that 31 talent is.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Morfiend on February 23, 2006, 11:47:49 AM A good team backed up by a holy priest > all.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: MrHat on February 23, 2006, 11:48:56 AM Paladin/Priest combo for the AB win!
Edit: that Power Infusion talent makes me hopeful for bloodlust when shaman review comes around. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on February 23, 2006, 12:29:48 PM Holy will now be the PvP spec, which actually rocks.. I'm pleased.. :)
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: MrHat on February 23, 2006, 01:12:45 PM Holy will now be the PvP spec, which actually rocks.. I'm pleased.. :) ya, so much potential out of it now. Holymoly Build (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023013000000023505133030015510000000000000000) Props to Blizz for making the holy tree something to want just as bad as the shadow tree. I'm not crazy about the disc. tree because you can get so much out of the other two, but there's potential there too. Disc/Holy PvP Survival - Selfish Build (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023213350011023550130010005000000000000000000) Edit: Fixed links. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: cevik on February 23, 2006, 01:58:41 PM Unfortunately your builds are linking to the old Talent calculator, not the new.. :(
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Morfiend on February 23, 2006, 02:09:00 PM Change the link to "priest2" instead of just "priest".
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on February 23, 2006, 02:26:15 PM Holy will now be the PvP spec, which actually rocks.. I'm pleased.. :) Makes me wonder how powerful the guy who did the "smite LOL" video will be now. He was doing some serious damage as it was. I'm very, VERY happy with the Holy tree now, how could I not be? Discipline looks attractive, too, but I'm loving the thought of Lightwell. The angel prereq I'm not a big fan or, nor of losing my %10 mana boost from disc, but hey, I'll cope. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on February 23, 2006, 02:31:21 PM Disc/Holy PvP Survival - Selfish Build (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023213350011023550130010005000000000000000000) I'd move the 'throwaway' point in improved healing to Holy Reach. 5% mana reduction on lesser/greater heal vs 10% increase in Holy Fire, Smite and Holy Nova reach. My Current Build (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests/talents.html?50023214050500050500055202000000000000000000) Here's what I'm going to in 1.10, the UBER HOLY SPEC patch. MMmm Holy Nova (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests/talents.html?50523003000000023005113230115510000000000000000) I might Drop Holy Nova and holy reach and pick-up the remaining points in Blessed Recovery and Imp. Prayer of healing. Depends on how it works out on the test server. I'm just a PvE priest, so all the +dmg stuff, while nice for the PvP priests aren't what I'm after. My Hunter's my pvp character. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: kaid on February 23, 2006, 02:50:35 PM I have seen a couple new smite builds that are full disc and 20 points into holy and damn they could pump out some scary numbers. Especially when they kick in the disc end talent. That combined with the ability to spam holy nova is going to change what you seen AV quite a bit.
kaid Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: MrHat on February 23, 2006, 03:30:15 PM Holy Fire Extreme (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50013213320010020505130202005005000000000000000)
That one could explode some crazy damage if you loaded up on SPI, but the stars would have to align just right. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: bhodi on February 23, 2006, 04:24:19 PM Lightwell is a kick in the crotch for a 31 pt talent. 2 extra seconds for 400 less heal than a heavy runecloth bandage. Once every 10m. 6 charges. Channeling, which means any mob aoe and it's canceled. I don't see this being used, at all, ever, in a raid.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Typhon on February 23, 2006, 04:44:01 PM This line
"Our testing has shown that this ability works great in both smaller dungeons and raids, often times allowing the lower maintenance party members to take advantage of the healing properties of this well, while the priest and other healing classes focused on the main tank or whomever was taking heavy damage." leads me to believe that that Lightwell is cast like a pet, and just sits there, waiting for people to right-click it. The priest then goes about his business of keeping the tank alive (pulling is probably held until after the Lightwell is cast). When Johnny Support gets alittle aggro, then loses it back to the tank, he steps over to the Lightwell and BAM! gets healed (for instance - the hunter takes a little beating on a pull, before tank grabs aggro). This generates no aggro for the priest, nor does it take away from his concentration on the tank. My understanding could be flawed though. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: bhodi on February 23, 2006, 04:48:54 PM This line "Our testing has shown that this ability works great in both smaller dungeons and raids, often times allowing the lower maintenance party members to take advantage of the healing properties of this well, while the priest and other healing classes focused on the main tank or whomever was taking heavy damage." leads me to believe that that Lightwell is cast like a pet, and just sits there, waiting for people to right-click it. The priest then goes about his business of keeping the tank alive (pulling is probably held until after the Lightwell is cast). When Johnny Support gets alittle aggro, then loses it back to the tank, he steps over to the Lightwell and BAM! gets healed (for instance - the hunter takes a little beating on a pull, before tank grabs aggro). This generates no aggro for the priest, nor does it take away from his concentration on the tank. My understanding could be flawed though. Yes, it's great for a priest.. throw down the wall and forget your melee dps. It's terrible for the DPS and the raid as a whole. There is no "BAM". It's a 10 second channel. First, my point was it's simply inferior (except in cost) to something melee already has - the heavy runecloth bandage. Furthermore,. most higher end mobs do AoE damage that cancels all channeling spells so you can't use bandages (or the healwell) without getting behind a wall. Finally, this heal takes your melee out of doing the stabbity-stab on the mob which prolongs the fight which makes you heal the main tank more in the long run. It's simply better and easier to throw a renew on your rogue like you do already and go back to healing the main tank. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Teleku on February 23, 2006, 05:58:05 PM Depends, will have to see how it works out in practice. This should be very nice for rogues though, as in many raid boss fights, Rogues are last on the healing priority list. We actually aren't allowed to heal them in certain fights, and they relie soley on bandages and pots for healing. This will help in those situations.
Of course, I'm a PvP priest (shadow currently). Think I will go for something like this: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023113320515120505120202000000000000000000000 Crit priest ftw. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on February 23, 2006, 06:11:33 PM I'd say not picking up spell warding as a healing priest would be a mistake for either PVP or or PVE raiding. Most of the damage you're gonna take (that isn't on a wipe or a 1-hit regardless) is going to be spell damage. We bust ass to get resistances up for certain fights, and this would essentially give you the equivalent of a whole lot of it.
This is the spec I'm thinking of going: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023213300000023350133000015510000000000000000 The point in light well is pending how useful I find it. Since that point would just give me +1% crit on my holy spells if not in there it's not much of a loss. I threw that same point into holy fire for kicks and giggles in my current spec, so unless light well totally sucks I'll pick it up. The only questions in my mind ar whether to go the gheal talents over inspiration/crit heals, and whether to go spiritual healing or mental agility. EDIT: My original spec didn't have inner focus and was changed to the above after a comment in this thread. I went ahead and editted this post so people don't keep telling me to get inner focus (:heart:). Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Teleku on February 23, 2006, 06:27:26 PM Yeah, the spell warding would be very nice, but there are just so many other things I'd like, and I want to maximize holy damage. Going to be a tough choice when I actually do respec. Though on your build, I think it would be folly to not throw 1 point into Inner Focus. Its a very nice ability, and I'm sure you can redirect 1 point from somewhere ;).
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on February 23, 2006, 06:43:18 PM First, my point was it's simply inferior (except in cost) to something melee already has - the heavy runecloth bandage One point of order: All talents are balanced around the EARLIEST level you can get them. Notice Divine Spirit has been reduced in amount from the 31 point version. This is because you can get it 6 levels earlier. The later ranks likely remain the same. The same will be true of lightwell. The LEVEL 40 version is worse than a skill you can't get until 42 and doesn't indicate how big a heal the L60 version will be. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Teleku on February 23, 2006, 06:45:24 PM Top level lightwell is going to heal the person for 1600.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on February 23, 2006, 07:02:55 PM Though on your build, I think it would be folly to not throw 1 point into Inner Focus. Its a very nice ability, and I'm sure you can redirect 1 point from somewhere ;). Now that you mention it... yeah, there's another 1% crit I could lose to get it. That's what I will probably do. On the subject of lightwell, if bandages did not leave a "recently bandaged" debuff on the person then I would agree that it is useless. How it stands now though melee often find themselves where they need a bandage but can't because of the debuff. The lightwell would be good in this instance. I still don't think it will be spectacular enough to be something you'd shoot for, just something you'd grab because you're there anyway and it's kinda nice. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Evil Elvis on February 24, 2006, 02:20:14 AM There are too many good talents now to get Lightwell. I'd say they need to make it more appealing, but the disc/holy changes are so good, it'd be criminal to make em even better.
They could have improved shadows talent line more. Part of the shadow/disc popularity was based on how much holy and end disc talents sucked. Spirit tap should work on any kill you received xp/honor for. Then maybe do something like make Imp. Mind Blast a 3 point talent, make shadow reach a 3rd tier talent, and put in a new 4th tier 2-point talent that gives a 5%/10% chance of reducing your next spell by 1.5 seconds when hit by a melee/ranged attack. Templates: General - My favorite. For those who like to PvP, and raid (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023213310514123040000000000000502300100000000) General2 - Variation of above with holy nova. (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023213310514123050120000000000502000000000000) Raidbot - Because you're the guildmaster's bitch (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023213040010023055103010005500000000000000000) Shadow - 'Cuz you haven't seen the writting on the wall yet. (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023212300000020000000000000000502522103111251) Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Phred on February 24, 2006, 03:08:56 AM I can see the lightwell spell being useful for fights like flamegor in BWL. Oft times I take a series of hits from his ae and have to duck around the corner and my bandage is still down from the last time I had to duck out of combat. A lightwell would allow me to heal back up and get back into the fight a bit quicker. Unfortunately I can't think of too many fights where you can duck the AE like flamegor though. I certainly haven't seen any in either AQ yet, so unless there are some in Naxwhatever I guess this spell will be of limited usefulness.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: bhodi on February 24, 2006, 04:07:16 PM I can see the lightwell spell being useful for fights like flamegor in BWL. Oft times I take a series of hits from his ae and have to duck around the corner and my bandage is still down from the last time I had to duck out of combat. A lightwell would allow me to heal back up and get back into the fight a bit quicker. Unfortunately I can't think of too many fights where you can duck the AE like flamegor though. I certainly haven't seen any in either AQ yet, so unless there are some in Naxwhatever I guess this spell will be of limited usefulness. I'm pretty sure you're thinking about firemaw, yes? Flamegor's AoE isn't worrysome unless he's in a frenzy. Generally we have a non-subelty druid standing in the cubby healing the DPS with rejuv. The only two fights I can think of right now where I'd ever use lightwell are firemaw and golemagg, however any fight that you deliberately try and distance yourself from the monster are the ONLY times you'd ever use this ability. As for the recently bandaged? I'd say firemaw is the only one I've ever wanted to bandage and been unable to do so. As for the +1% crit, hell, I figured people are all over crit... what's not to like? Crit rocks, but maybe that's just me being a rogue. I'd take that over everything else. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Merusk on February 24, 2006, 04:58:31 PM Crit, if you're a decent healer, is pointless because you're timing well enough that your heal fills the bar almost, if not completly full anyway. Crit heals just waste healing points, AND draw extra-aggro. Yeah, 2 things you REALLY love doing as a priest.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: bhodi on February 24, 2006, 10:49:38 PM Crit, if you're a decent healer, is pointless because you're timing well enough that your heal fills the bar almost, if not completly full anyway. Crit heals just waste healing points, AND draw extra-aggro. Yeah, 2 things you REALLY love doing as a priest. I'm probably biased by both my rogue AND my druid. Rogues are self explanatory and seal fate builds like mine are notoriously crit hungry. Druid regrowth talent is +50% to crit, and with epic gear it's assumed you can break the 75% mark.. so you begin to count on crits even more than you do normals... I guess for a priest it's detrimental though. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Calantus on February 25, 2006, 02:57:33 AM I'm into PVP in a big way and crit heals can often help there for combatting mortal strike or a train, especially when they proc inspiration. Even then it's not much of a deal to lose 1% crit.
Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Phred on February 25, 2006, 06:50:49 AM I'm pretty sure you're thinking about firemaw, yes? Flamegor's AoE isn't worrysome unless he's in a frenzy. Ya my bad. I mean Firemaw. Quote Generally we have a non-subelty druid standing in the cubby healing the DPS with rejuv Sometimes I'll get a heal tossed my way but it's not something we usually have enough healers to count on. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Zetor on February 26, 2006, 12:51:06 AM goddammit, now I have to level my 36 priest to 60 or something. :heartbreak:
The new IAE-style holy nova is amusing. I can see it now, priests going boom boom (getting no aggro) on the Strat skeleton zerg, Rivendare's servants, whelps, AV... yeah, I can imagine how it'll change the typical magebomb / fearbomb aspects of AV. calantus: Why no Inner Focus? It's the pwn. -- Z. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: MrHat on February 26, 2006, 08:20:41 AM goddammit, now I have to level my 36 priest to 60 or something. :heartbreak: The new IAE-style holy nova is amusing. I can see it now, priests going boom boom (getting no aggro) on the Strat skeleton zerg, Rivendare's servants, whelps, AV... yeah, I can imagine how it'll change the typical magebomb / fearbomb aspects of AV. calantus: Why no Inner Focus? It's the pwn. -- Z. I'm def. throwing all the priests in the same group after the patch, want to see what happens when they're all healing each other. Title: Re: Leaked Priest Changes? Post by: Teleku on February 26, 2006, 12:20:01 PM Heh, you could actually make a pretty good tri-spec for PvP:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/priests2/talents.html?50023013000000020505130202015000502300100000000 Guild leader would probably hate me, but oh well ;). |