f13.net

Ok, new servers, PVP servers. I don't care all that much about PVP. I'm a sucker for clean servers, unsoiled market economies, and unknown futures. I <3 new servers. Generally I switch to one whenever I get a chance. This is no different. If people are willing, I'd like to halt the heavy work on Bat Country and inact some sort of "try out every class to pick a final" on the new server. That is, if most of you want to switch to the new server. I understand if you don't want to.

Well, no, I don't understand.

New servers are love. We're a smart bunch of folks. We could dominate the market there, no question (as there aren't many big guilds in EQ2). We're efficient people and the grind really isn't that bad (as in, there really isn't one). Also, there won't be any cockblocks. Everyone will start at the same time at the same level. Everyone seemed to progress at the same rate on Steamfont.

Can I get some yay or nays? Cheddar would still be guild leader, but there's just so much allure to having a clean server. Even if the PvP is unbalanced, it doesn't mean we can't make ganksquads of mages and rogues. Also - we could be an evil guild - which would most likely be the underdogs. The world would be our oyster.

/new server discoveries ftw

I feel the same about new servers and hopped to a new one every time they opened in both EQ and DAoC.  I really don't care whether it's a PvP server or not as long as it's a clean slate.  Considering the class imbalances, a non or semi-PvP sever might be more attractive than a Lord-of-the-Flies open PvP free for all.

Count me in.  I'm going to leave all my other toons in the dirt to play on the new servers.

it's a cunning plan

I'm a negative on PvP servers.  I've done level-based PvP in DAoC.  I have no interest in catassing to stay infront of the curve, getting ganked by level +10s, suffering through pushed out classes and inevitable nerfs/balancings, enduring lag, asshats, and login problems.

I'm actually enjoying myself on Steamfont.  Running some little groups, having a little community, and having free run of the place is really nice.  Not having to 'camp check' or fight over spawns is a thing of beauty.

I'm not real worried about overpopulation in this game but new servers bring me this.

1. Fresh Database
2. Undiscovered server lewtz.
3. Untarnished market.
4. A smaller level curve amongst the players.

And really, no matter where you are, catassing in this game doesn't really help much. EQ2 is much more about efficiency than time invested.

I would prefer not having a PvP server, too.  PvP in EQ was really dreadful and I'm convinced it'll be terrible in EQ2.  Then it would just piss me off.  If they offer, which I'm not sure they will, I'd prefer an rp server.  I seem to get along much better on those, even though I don't really arr pee. 

And... since it was mentioned... Bat Country, or any f13 guild, will never be big enough to dominate anything.

It's not about dominating. It's about survival. And a new database.

Then why did you say we could dominate the market?  You say stuff so I'll say stuff then you say, "NAY" and make me confused and leave me looking foolish!

(http://wamu.org/programs/kn/gallery/tattooing_and_scarification/059_LongNeckWomanAndChild_gf.jpg)

Just because.

The market isn't anywhere near the same thing as controlling contested areas. You don't have to be an uberguild in EQ2 to get and sell the right things. It just takes a bit of ingenuity and luck.

EQ2 PvP? No. Sololing is tough enough at times without having to worry about roving gank squads. Have you played EQ on a Zek?

As I said in the thread this idea originated in, I'll stick to Qeynos/Steamfont and Freeport/Lucan D'Lere.

That's my final answer, Regis.

I hate to say it, but all valid points:

- Yes, a few uber guilds will run the show

- Yes, soloing will be tough/frustrating

- Yes, this server will attract the leet kiddies and you'll be surrounded by guys with names like ~-=Mastahplayah=-~

- Yes, pvp imbalances will be many

I do love myself a new server though.  The fresh slate is really fun.  Is it enough to offset the rest?  I'm not sure.

Ohh please, please, please do this. I want to see Haem quote some Talking Heads once the l33t kiddies pound your hopes and dreams into a fine powder called misery.

These games are about Time, and eventually unlocking stuff in later parts of the game. Some, like EQ2, also involve building up pseudo-businesses over time. Server jumping seems to cancels those things out, preventing people from getting established in their bid for continually trying to be first.

At the same time, I'm living on Test until 19 goes live, so it doesn't matter to me personally if its Steamfont or something else. I couldn't care any less about being first.

Fuck if you want a shot at uberness move over to my server (Grobb). Our resident uber guild (Malice) left after getting all pissy that they won't have enough time to farm the old t6 stuff before the next expansion or somesuch...

I think currently our guild might be #1 or #2 on the server and we ain't all that uber...

On Steamfont a couple nights ago - Watchdisshet.

Dumb names used to bug me, but now I see them as a beacon of warning.

I think I'll play test mostly until #19 myself... especially if we're going to switch servers anyway.  I'm Midden on Steamfont and I'm Radge on test.  I couldn't find a place for the wee, unfortunately.   :?

I agree with the time efficiency vs. catass.  Look at how how high my character levels are, yet I am relatively casual this time around.  I dunno, I just got leet skillz or some such shit.  Can we get some official notes as to wether they will be doing character transfers, how PvP WILL be deployed, and any other notes of interest?  Point two would perhaps be the most important point to take into consideration.  

Until we get more information I will sign up as "potentially interested."  I hope everyone would choose to come with us.  Honestly, no one besides perhaps Miasma has enough time investment to bitch if we start over.  And he fears me.

Allow me to Bruce this up a little:


You were with us in WoW's PvP scenerio, hopefully EQ2 will do something along these lines.  They cannot Darktide this; the world is not fucking big enough to have people form pocket communities.  And what if we have a good/evil mix in the guild?  We need information!  I went ahead and bolded the most important thing I took from your comments.  We are having fun, why should we stop?


Soloing in this game will never be tough.  Quest loot is nice enough that you do not need external help, though it helps.  And as for your other point, you cannot have a name like that.  The GM's heavily frown on it and the name police ARE out there.  We got reported when we first started Bat Country.  The person got banned (I will not go into details).


You missed the point.

Oh, and fix the damn TS server.  Blech.

It's fixed, dorkchop. Would you please wakey wakey?

I care neither one way or the other about a PVP server. I'll make a character and come play just like I did on Steamfont.

Everything's more difficult with a knife in your spleen.

Again we come back to needing more information as to how the PvP will be handled.  Lets not draw conclusions until we have information.

I know how PVP will be handled. For the most part, it's open PVP. I can't go into details further than that at the moment. But I can say it won't dissuade me. I'll stay on Steamfont if that's what it comes down to, but I simply don't think there will be enough population clutter that it will really get in the way of the game.

1. The death penalty is super low.
2. There's an assload of zones and instances in the game where you'd Never run into the opposing team.

Unfortunetely not enough information.  I like the idea of multiple zones though; it almost sells me on the idea.  But by open PvP do they mean Qeynos can attack Qeynos, or only Freeport vs. Qeynos?  And can guilds still have mixed factions with full interaction?  I am 85%+ sold on the idea though.  I have a soft spot for clean servers.

Given the structure of the game, and that PvP is coming on the heals of a complete redesign of classes and abilities, I'd like to know what people feel will be the true population of these servers. Dead servers suck, no matter how much shit you get to discover.

I mean, it'd be really cool if PvP wasn't a train wreck for months and there was a good amount of players on a PvP server. Good communities and fun stuff can come from that. I'm just wondering is all.

I really hate PvP, I get far too worked up about it.  For some reason I get really upset if another sentient being brings my collection of polygon's hitpoints to zero.  And as I've already said I have no faith in SOE's ability to implement this correctly.

I understand the appeal of a new server but most of the people playing on it are going to be the absolute scum of the Earth.  We're talking about people who either got kicked out of WoW for cheating or left because there weren't enough exploits/hacks to let them cheat their way to victory.

All of you sound jaded. 

If we decide to move and start over, that's fine. I'm up for anything. For the time being I'll keep advancing on Steamfont and mess around on Test every now and then. I'm still having a great time in the game and you guys definitely keep me laughing. I can hang out anywhere.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that PVP would only be good vs. evil.  Anyway, I've only been on less than a week so I wouldn't mind moving as long as everyone comes along.  I'm not a hardcore PVP'er but I did enjoy my time in our WoW PVP server so I'd look forward to at least giving it a try.

I don't really care, I would come over if it was to the evil side though.

It's called experience. Again, have you played on an EQ Zek? I have. Forget getting in half the zones, and with open pvp, forget getting in most zones. It's mmo pvp. People will repeatedly fuck with you. To me, it's not worth the hassle just to get a clean server.

Promote Soukyan to GM and have fun on the pvp server. We'll keep the Steamfont guild going. If I want mmo pvp, I'll go play Planetside, a game designed for it.

Everyone here is so bossy.

This really makes you sound ignorant.  I am not looking to get in an argument with you, but for fucks sake!!!  Relax.

It wasn't an argument until you called me ignorant.

In fairness, Sky has a point about PVP servers. And more to the point, EQ PVP servers. The Zeks were all around bad news. You could have fun until about level 6 and then the constant ganking begins to get on your nerves. The inability to even fight your way out of your starting zone becomes tired very, very fast.

This is not EQ1.  Can we at least wait to reserve judgement?  We do not have the information to get all worked up; we were having a discussion about possibly moving.

And I did not say you were ignorant, Sky.  I said you sound ignorant.  And you do.

The majority of EQ players are playing WoW right now. They'll be playing Vanguard in the future. I only see a single zone in the entire game being a real problem for PvP and that's Stormhold. That'll just require some strategy and well, hiding. All I'm saying is, I don't think the populations will be high enough for PVP to matter. I've seen all of 2 evil people Steamfont. One of them was Jeboob while he was doing the betrayal quest. Just sayin.

Edit: And I didnt' say we HAVE to move. If they open a fresh PVE server, I'd rather move to that.

He sounds cautious not ignorant. The reason you people want to move to the PVP server is to gank. If that's what you want to do, do it. Some people here know what most MMO PVP really boils down to and they want no part of it. I can't blame them. Would I enjoy ganking? You better believe it, but sooner or later someone would be higher than me and I would be ganked repeatedly. It's not really a cycle for fun, only for frustration.

Shockeye, I want to move to a new server (PVP or not) because of the fresh database. While it may be a fun aspect of the game to be a ganksquad, I'm still in it far more for the clean slate. I'm all about fresh servers. I'm fairly certain Cheddar doesn't give a shit about being in a ganksquad.

The clean slate is what I'm interested in also.  I have to side with Sky in saying that I played on the Zek servers in EQ and they were a cesspool of undesirables bent on getting their fun through the misery of others.   

I'll go with the majority here.  I just want some regular people to play with and I don't really care what server they settle on. On that note, is there any chance that we'll be able to field some groups in the future?  I've made a rogue, but am starting to think that playing a healing class may serve us better. 

This is not EQ 1, correct. It is EQ 2. And unfortunately, reserving judgement if you are a consumer of an MMOG that is the second in a line of product you are already used to is almost impossible.

I used to be the same way. In original EQ I ALWAYS server hopped. In EQ2 I have no desire to. I think it's a combination of things not neccessarily in this order:

1. Playing with people I know.
2. Being closer to the front-runners of the server.
3. No overcrowding and fast travel. I actually think this is the biggest factor. In EQ it was always frustrating to go to one of your favorite hunting grounds to find it already taken. You head to the next and it's take as well. You spend on hour finding somewhere to hunt and log off 30 minutes later. EQ2 with the instanced zones and whether it's less players, or just the larger zones, I haven't had the same problem. I've always had no problem finding somewhere to go hunt, or even that much of a problem finding a group with any of my characters.

I'm curious as to what the benefit of moving to the new server would be. You say fresh database but I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that.

You know, I actually considered trying out EQ2 when they announced PVP servers (on PopTart's account, of course). Then I remembered:

1) Zoning + PVP = Ganking at the zone line
2) EQ's mechanics mean Level > All Followed Items > All except levels
3) It's EQ2

My point is that you guys can do whatever you want, of course, but I'm concerned for the integrity of Bat Country. Thus my comment about handing the reins to Soukyan, who is good people and seems to also want to stick to the current situation.

I also don't see the allure of a clean slate? What benefit would that be? I'm having a fine time in EQ2 despite the entirely random server we play on. I don't see how starting all over again would be more fun.

If we all move then the guild leadership will be handed to someone staying, along with lots of special treats and money.  But it is not definite that we are moving.  Hence our discussion on the possibility. 

Really I just want to join a gank squad and camp the server lines.  'Tis all.

You are this close to joining EQ 2. I just need to step up my working on you.

Muahaha.

I can feel a Haemcow logging into EQ soon.

If it is open PvP and I can kill those people, I would pay to play in a heartbeat.

Give it your best shot, Pop.  I'd be thrilled and if we could actually get Cevik playing games again, it would make me cry happy tears. 

As for all that other stuff up there... I have no idea what you guys are arguing about.  Someone please explain it to me using numbers and examples.  If anyone has a webcam, please use posters and a pointy stick.

Thanks in advance.

I'm thinking it's because EQ2 tracks how many items you have discovered. (http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/items_index.vm)

I was reading the PvP board and I guess most people on the PvP servers are going evil, they seem to want to roleplay that too...  So if you do move you probably want to role on the Qeynos side if you want to be outnumbered.  Disturbingly, guilds from the old Zeks seem to be reforming or moving back from WoW for this.  I haven't seen the term "bluebie" or demands for a discord server(free for all, permadeath) in years.

Choice Quotes from the PvP Board (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=pvp)

I did not make this thread title up:
And finally, a typical Zekker from eq1 talking to himself. (http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pvp&message.id=10194)

See, that's an argument against moving to that server. Yeesh.

You are the Diet Coke of Evil. You are expelled from the guild.

lol, this whole thing reminds me of that scene from Austin Powers.

"I want to own a pet shop"
"An evil pet shop?"

In short, I"m pretty damn happy where we are.  I will be making a necro alt when 19 goes in (playing her currently anyways), that way I can have a few characters with some vitality to use up when I feel like it.

A pvp server will be tough for all the reasons listed above, I don't have the stamina I did last year around this time.  I do reserve judgement until we hear more about the way PvP will be handled.  For instance, if you can loot the kiddies, I'm all for a wizard invis ganksquad.

In all seriousness and not trying to be irritating or anything but you all don't stand a chance if you try to move to this server...

In the first month the following 4 groups of people will be established on this server:

1. Botters - SOE has done a decent job of policing these and the most notorious on our server have been regularly caught and removed. But they usually don't find and ban them before they reach level 50. I'm talking full-fledged bots here not 2-boxers or some other such. There are tradeskill bots, hunter-bots, and harvest bots that are all fairly easy to find. Not going to go into more detail than that.

2. Shift Players - These are groups of people playing single accounts to ensure that account is on 24 hours a day and leveling. Most of the time each of the people will be able to at least 2-3 box so it only takes 2-3 people in each shift to keep a full group going 24/7.

3. General catasses and standard 2-boxers - This group will usually be leading the charge the first 48 hours or so before they finally burn out and need to take at least a few hours of rest. They'll compete but will be a step behind the other two groups although typically this group will eventually take over as the botters get banned and the shift players each return to one player/account over time.

4. Victims.

I'll give you all one guess into which group most of you will fall.

Dibs on the 8pm to 12pm EST shift.

I guess I have the 12pm to 4am shift. So what you're saying is if we do this and we have one uber level 60 toon we can control the server? Seems simple enough. If you don't level during your four hour shift, we redirect your IP address to FoH. How's that sound?  :roll:

Not exactly. But if you have a guild of 18 people, setup 3 shifts of 6 people each, you will quickly have a group of 6 level 60 chars to farm instances. Using the loot from those instances to then shift cash down to the other 12 who now start working on their own VERY well equipped characters.

What the hell do you think I was referring to? Yet I sound ignorant.  :roll:

I was being sarcastic.


I still don't think EQ2 will be that bad. I could be totally wrong. But if PVP on one server is a success they'll open more. I hope, at the very least, every server gets an arena of some sort or at least a couple contested zones.

Really I would actually consider playing EQ II if there was going to be an organized shift power-level grind going on.  Because anything short will leave you getting demolished by higher levels.

If you want to play on a poorly implemented/balanced pvp server with open pvp in all zones and zone lines you better be ready to catass2victory or else your just asking to destroy the merry little band you have going now.

Thinking otherwise is being willfully ignorant of the way pvp has ALWAYS gone in EQ, and no a game that has had no pvp for this entire time and now intends to patch it in WILL NOT BE BETTER.

Rule #1 of PvP:
-Games that are not designed from the ground up to have open pvp will never have great open pvp.
Rule #2 of PvP:
-Games that do not have pvp at launch can never patch pvp in without destroying balance typically pvp and pve balance.
Rule #3 of PvP:
-In Diku Clones the longer the grind to get to max level the higher the chance of anyone attempting to play will never make max level and quit and cry about griefers/pks/ganks for the rest of their lives to anyone who will listen.

PvP Arenas are already in. Desert of Flames expansion added that. Granted, the arenas are instanced. I'm guessing you meant just a more general kind of sandbox type arena for whoever wants to wander in and fight, but just thought I'd mention that arena PvP is already available.

I would like to try PvP in EQ2. I understand the desire to roll on a fresh server, to be part of the leaderboard of item discovery. Ergo, the desire for a new server with PvP.

However, I think it's the height of risk to do both at the same time in this brand new character system.

We all know how the PvP server is going to go in the short term. This isn't WoW which launched with them. This is an established game with more veterans than an expected influx of newbies. The pattern is more EQ/DAoC-esque, where the PvP servers will be crushed under the weight of new characters for about four weeks, and then slowly emptying out to some plateau later. What that plateau is depends largely on how much someone's Level is integrated into the combat formula. The more Level matters, the less people will be on the server. Someone may argue this assumption, and I'd like to be wrong.

Therefore, I'd go with Cheddar's suggestion and take a wait-and-see approach. Let's see if PvP isn't an abject trainwreck and then decide if a migration is worth it.

I can partially agree with that. But you could also just try it out the first couple days of release and see how it plays. If the folks who want to start on a fresh server find it to be tolerable, they can let us know how it's going and the rest of us can migrate if it's all good. Otherwise, they can head back to Steamfont and be no worse for the wear. Is a couple days enough to know what's going to happen? Maybe not, but it'll give you an idea of general population, who's staying and who's leaving, what kind of guild politics will be happening, etc. Again, I'm open to whatever. If I move to PvP and hate it, I can always go back to Steamfont or some other server. My only preference is to play alongside f13 folks if possible.

FYI they've invited folks to enter into their Beta contest for KoS and PvP (separately). It's one of the banners that come up in the EQ2 launchpad, it appears on the main page (http://everquest2.station.sony.com), and both link directly to this registration page (http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive.vm?id=681&section=News&month=current). I don't know if there's any requirements beyond your account though. All I did was log in, click this URL (http://eq2beta.station.sony.com/beta_reg/register.jsp) on the page, and it thanked me for registering.

I'd love to get into the PvP beta of this. Would answer a lot of questions real quickly. I always liked the idea of open PvP, but for me personally, it needs some constraints.

I am hoping they work it some thing like WoW's pvp. With contested zones and home zones. Giving people the first 20 levels or so free from ganking.