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Title: Computer help needed Post by: Margalis on December 17, 2005, 08:03:28 PM So I just got a new video card, an NVidia 6600. It requires you to plug in a hard-drive power cable to it to function. When I do this, my computer simply refuses to power on.
If I put the card in and don't plug in the power the computer starts fine. (But obviously I have no video out) But as soon as I plug in the power it just will not start. The box and the online doc says it requires a 300W power supply, which I have. However the printed manual says it requires a 350 watt power supply. If it does require 350 and I have 300 could this be the problem? Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Cheddar on December 17, 2005, 08:31:59 PM So I just got a new video card, an NVidia 6600. It requires you to plug in a hard-drive power cable to it to function. When I do this, my computer simply refuses to power on. If I put the card in and don't plug in the power the computer starts fine. (But obviously I have no video out) But as soon as I plug in the power it just will not start. The box and the online doc says it requires a 300W power supply, which I have. However the printed manual says it requires a 350 watt power supply. If it does require 350 and I have 300 could this be the problem? Simply put- Yes. BUT those power supplies are cheap and easily replaced. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Righ on December 17, 2005, 09:59:25 PM The 300 watt power supply might be low on main rail current. Some are down at under 10A, and this is presumably an AGP card if you've got a power connector on it. The power connector is only topping up the power above what is supplied through the AGP slot, which is coming off the main 12V rail. Low current power supplies are no use for quick processors paired with hungry graphics cards.
I don't know what else you have in your box, but you might not need more than 300W, you just might need a lot of it on one rail. A single 12V rail at 10A is 120W, at 18A its 216W. When you bear in mind that a 6600 is looking for around 65W and AGP can supply as much as 45W, you could be pulling too much current. Eh, just go nuts and buy a nice dual 12v rail PSU with huge power, a quiet fan and modular cabling, then you wont need to do sums. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817101208 Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Margalis on December 18, 2005, 12:08:01 AM The 300 watt power supply might be low on main rail current. Some are down at under 10A, and this is presumably an AGP card if you've got a power connector on it. The power connector is only topping up the power above what is supplied through the AGP slot, which is coming off the main 12V rail. Low current power supplies are no use for quick processors paired with hungry graphics cards. I don't know what else you have in your box, but you might not need more than 300W, you just might need a lot of it on one rail. A single 12V rail at 10A is 120W, at 18A its 216W. When you bear in mind that a 6600 is looking for around 65W and AGP can supply as much as 45W, you could be pulling too much current. Eh, just go nuts and buy a nice dual 12v rail PSU with huge power, a quiet fan and modular cabling, then you wont need to do sums. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817101208 Ummm...wtf are you talking about? V is volts, A is amps? Rails is...? Christ man this is why people hate computers. I know how this is going to end up, I'm going to get a new power supply then it isn't even going to fit into my computer or my computer will explode and kill me or something. Are there some numbers or something I can read off my power supply? I see a bunch... Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: stray on December 18, 2005, 01:08:14 AM Basic rule of thumb is: Don't buy something just because of overall wattage. A 450 watt PSU might actually be inferior to a 350 watt, depending on rail specs (Most of your major components will be using the 12v, so you don't want to skimp here).
How do you read the spec? +12V1@20A, +12V2@18A (Taken from Righ's Newegg link) This above example means it has 2 (dual) 12v rails, indicated by "+12V1" and "+12V2". A generous single rail spec, on the other hand, would say something like, "+12V@30A". Secondly, the number following the "@" symbol indicates how many amps on each. You want them to be at least 15 each on a dual spec (more than enough), and over 20 on a single spec. [edit] To add to the confusion, don't just pay attention to 12v though! Some PSU manufacturers may be generous on the 12v, but then screw you on the other voltages. Haha. Good luck (it really isn't as bad as it seems, but I had to point this out). Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Margalis on December 18, 2005, 01:41:43 AM (Head explodes)
OK...so um...yeah. I was looking at Tom's Hardware to see what PSU they use for their hardware tests. I guess I will probably just pick up what they use or the PSU in the link provided...since I have NO FUCKING CLUE what I am doing. But...we sure that my computer just not turning on when the card is plugged in is most likely a power supply problem? God damn if there was ever an argument for standardized parts this is it right here. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: stray on December 18, 2005, 01:51:14 AM I guess I will probably just pick up what they use or the PSU in the link provided It's hard to imagine a situation where that power supply wouldn't be sufficient for most people. A little pricey, but I'd say go for it. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Signe on December 18, 2005, 04:44:57 AM I think it's foolish to spend all this money on what is a fad that will all end in the year 2012.
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: stray on December 18, 2005, 04:48:42 AM I think it's foolish to spend all this money on what is a fad that will all end in the year 2012. Hey, you're not supposed to know about that. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Trippy on December 18, 2005, 05:33:50 AM How old is your motherboard? A 6600 GT AGP should be able to boot up fine without the additional power connector plugged in. An AGP slot can provide around 45 W of power and a 6600 GT will draw up to 75 W but that's when its doing 3D graphics and the 6600 GT AGP is supposed to underclock itself if it doesn't have the additional power. Booting up a computer into a normal 2D Windows desktop doesn't draw nearly 45 W of power.
Another thing you can try is to unplug your hard drive(s), leave the video card unplugged and see if you can at least see the normal VGA motherboard startup screens. If that doesn't work, plug in the power connector that was in the hard drive into the video card and see if that works. If either of those things work then you aren't getting enough power to the card and you'll need a bigger power supply though that newegg.com one is a bit overkill for your needs. If neither of those things work it's possible your motherboard is too old (doesn't support the latest AGP spec) or the card itself has problems. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Miasma on December 18, 2005, 08:07:49 AM If you have a second hard drive that isn't needed to boot up you could disconnect the power from it and maybe even the cd/dvd drive, they try to connect the video card and see if it powers up. If it does then you probably do need a better power supply. If it's a cheap power supply (and if it came with the case it probably is) you could also try using a different prong, one that isn't connected to anything else. 300W is on the light side if you have a video card that needs a power connection.
Ah how love the spiral effect of computer upgrades, by the time your done you'll probably have a whole new computer :-). Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Margalis on December 18, 2005, 02:19:50 PM OK I will try what you guys suggest. My motherboard is 3-4 years old. I have a plain 6600, not a 6600 GT. I was reading that the GT can boot up with lower power but maybe the 6600 isn't that sophisticated?
I will try to disconnect everything but the card and try that with and without the power plugged in and see what happens. Edit: Progress! I unplugged everything except the MOBO, no picture. Then I plugged in the video card - I get the boot screen. Right now I have the video card and 2 hard drives plugged in, but not my CD or DVD drives. (Can't run install software) I don't really need my second drive though, so I can always change that config and get rid of it for the time being. Or it may be just switching some cables around is enough. I read that the card needs an unshared line and I did try to do that but I didn't go through every cable... Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Strazos on December 18, 2005, 04:07:36 PM I generally try not to share cable lines, as a rule. I had a similar problem at one point when I either upgraded my card or added a HDD. I swapped some power lines around and it's fine.
Unfortunately, though it was a top-of-the-line mobo when I bought it, my Asus A7N8X is getting a bit old (~3 years). I'd like to overhaul the entire system some day...but I have no idea when that is going to be. If I'm in grad school, I may have to suffer and fall Far behind the curve. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Margalis on December 18, 2005, 04:55:36 PM Well, I have my card, both HDs and the CD drive all working. I haven't tried anything taxing on the card though. (DLing EQ2 trial right now, figure that should give it a good workout) So it is/was definitely a power issue.
The documentation for this thing is so bad! The box says 300W required, in the manual they don't even list this card at all under the power reqs table. I read about the unshared line thing on some random website. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Hoax on December 18, 2005, 09:25:32 PM Yeah I remember the day I learned that PSU's had specs and I cried for like a week. Good luck man, the easiest thing to do is make sure next time you upgrade you get a PSU that everyone on the pc tweaking forums agrees is good. They have crunched all the numbers and then some, not to mention running noise tests and god knows what else.
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Sky on December 19, 2005, 01:40:01 PM Quote Unfortunately, though it was a top-of-the-line mobo when I bought it, my Asus A7N8X is getting a bit old (~3 years). I'd like to overhaul the entire system some day...but I have no idea when that is going to be. I'm starting to think the same, but damn, I want some DD5.1 on a digital optical cable. Doesn't seem to be an option these days. There is 5.1 analog and digital stereo...blah. And aside from GPUs, there doesn't seem to be a huge bang for upgrading from my Barton 3000+/1GB PC3200 without dropping $1k on a 64FX CPU. And upgrading my GPU means upgrading the whole system because of PCIe.So I figure the pc will have to pull through yet another year. Oh, and don't skimp on the power supply. Quality PS are worth the money, especially in warm environments. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Yegolev on December 19, 2005, 08:34:07 PM I am in the same boat as Sky. I am hoping to hang on with mine (A7N8X-E, 3000+) until at least Vista comes out so I don't feel like a total retard for making a significant hardware upgrade. I might have some power issues when I stick that new 300GB ATA-133 in the tower this week, although my Enermax (12V@33A) seems to carry the load well enough, but if so I'll just hang a second PSU off of something. Easiest way to get another 12V rail. Got to love a full tower.
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Strazos on December 19, 2005, 08:41:14 PM I'd really like to hold off until Vista, whenever that is...but I've been getting wierd, random desktop lag and hangs, so I'm not really sure how it's going to play out. Hell, I've even gotten 2 Blue Screens of Death on shutdown....
Well, since it's a PC help thread...does that sound like a RAM issue? Besides the CPU, one of the RAM sticks is the only component I can think of that's original that might cause this (I don't think the PSU or a HDD is the problem, or the mobo - I don't even think it would boot if it was a mobo problem). Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Viin on December 19, 2005, 08:44:55 PM Sounds like time for a reformat+reinstall :)
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Strazos on December 19, 2005, 08:49:28 PM Pfft, I did that too recently, and I'd rather not do it again - it screws up most of my installed games and such.
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Viin on December 19, 2005, 08:55:00 PM Have you checked your processes list to see if anything is going on when it's going slow? Any background apps to cause the slow down (like virus scanning)?
Sounds like it might be reading from the harddrive, which could mean that it's paging a lot (not enough memory or memory used by something else) or that your harddrive might be having problems and it has to keep rereading bits. But then, I'm no expert. I'm sure others here have other opinions. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Der Helm on December 20, 2005, 06:25:59 AM Sounds like it might be reading from the harddrive, which could mean that it's paging a lot (not enough memory or memory used by something else) or that your harddrive might be having problems and it has to keep rereading bits.then, Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Sky on December 20, 2005, 09:43:37 AM I was having a lot of odd graphical crashes - blew out the dust in the GPU heatsink and everything is fine!
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Yegolev on December 20, 2005, 11:53:52 AM I'd really like to hold off until Vista, whenever that is...but I've been getting wierd, random desktop lag and hangs, so I'm not really sure how it's going to play out. Hell, I've even gotten 2 Blue Screens of Death on shutdown.... This could be anything. Spyware/virus scan lately? Install Norton lately? C:/ getting full? As for the format+reload messing up your installed games... that is how my rig normally operates. It's not the wasteland you might think it is. I'd guess that about one-third of my games are not actually "installed" due to this. Some applications don't care. I generally reinstall anyway, with judicious backup of saves and config files, of course. It also makes it easy to eliminate stuff I don't want anymore. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Strazos on December 20, 2005, 05:52:00 PM I'd really like to hold off until Vista, whenever that is...but I've been getting wierd, random desktop lag and hangs, so I'm not really sure how it's going to play out. Hell, I've even gotten 2 Blue Screens of Death on shutdown.... This could be anything. Spyware/virus scan lately? Install Norton lately? C:/ getting full? As for the format+reload messing up your installed games... that is how my rig normally operates. It's not the wasteland you might think it is. I'd guess that about one-third of my games are not actually "installed" due to this. Some applications don't care. I generally reinstall anyway, with judicious backup of saves and config files, of course. It also makes it easy to eliminate stuff I don't want anymore. Yes, no, and no. And I know about the installed thing. Just kinda sucks to lose all of the start menu shortcuts. I'm suspicious because I don't get the problem as much if I just let everything "load" at start up, but I invariably get the problem at random times. Odly enough, it doesn't affect anything if I'm in a game....at least, I don't think it does. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Yegolev on December 21, 2005, 08:52:15 AM Spend some time in the event viewer. With WinXP, you can often point-and-click to victory. Paste lots of things into Google: the Internet is your personal research-delegation tool. Run msconfig.exe and see if there is anything bad in there. Take a picture of your ball sack and email it to Bill Gates.
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: squirrel on December 22, 2005, 02:50:59 AM Just to add a sentiment triggered by the idea of sending uncle bill a pic of my sack - WTF is with WinXP and Bluetooth? I recently built an AMD based gaming box, my main axe (work stuff) is an Apple 1.5 powerbook. Holy fuck - BT on windows is a nightmare! I've had to download stacks and import reg hacks and do all sorts of waste of time shit just to get a couple BT devices to work. Same devices on the mac? Click once, click again - done.
Jesus. Note - this is not a mac is better or win is better thing. I like and own both. But man, XP needs some work when it comes to the Bluetooth capabilities. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Strazos on December 26, 2005, 12:49:23 PM Figured out my problem - a RAM stick had gone partially bad.
So now I am left with a single 512mb stick. I can easily buy another one.....but with ram prices these days, I am thinking of buying a 1gb stick. Now, the question is: is this viable/advisable? Will it work with no problems alongside a 512 stick? Also, my mobo has Dual Channel capability, where I just stick the other stick in, and it goes. Do the sticks have to match in capacity for this to work correctly? Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Trippy on December 26, 2005, 01:22:03 PM Now, the question is: is this viable/advisable? Will it work with no problems alongside a 512 stick? Also, my mobo has Dual Channel capability, where I just stick the other stick in, and it goes. Do the sticks have to match in capacity for this to work correctly? You can mix and match capacities but you'll lose the dual channel performance benefit. If you want to take advantage of it, the sticks not only have to match in capacity but they have to match in latency as well.Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Strazos on December 26, 2005, 01:39:32 PM Well, apparently the memory has a lifetime warranty. Waiting on an RMA.
Another good reason to go with Corsair, if you get it from a qualified merchant. :-) Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Der Helm on January 23, 2007, 03:10:01 PM Arise ...
(http://home.earthlink.net/~brosenberger/zombie.jpg) Help! I just tried to upgrade the RAM on my ASUS K8V-X SE motherboard with a pair of 1GB 400ms DDR memory sticks. After replacing the two old 512 Mb 400ms that where installed before, starting the computer results in several reboots. The bios would load normal, but it seems that the computer reboots as soon as windows starts to load. After checking the messages of the bios load sequence, I noticed that the memory check stops at 512 mb. When I "hit DEL to enter setup" memory is checked to 4096 mb. Looking at the system information in the bios itself, it reads 3072 mb system memory. Reinstalled the old memory and everything is back to normal. Any ideas ? Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Trippy on January 23, 2007, 05:14:12 PM I just tried to upgrade the RAM on my ASUS K8V-X SE motherboard with a pair of 1GB 400ms DDR memory sticks. Try each memory stick individually. Also check the timings that are reported in the BIOS (e.g. the "2-3-5-5" type stuff) and make sure those match up with what the memory is rated at. If you can boot from, say, a floppy without crashing trying running Memtest86+ (http://www.memtest.org/). Also that 3 GB/4 GB of system memory reported sounds wrong. Check the "fine print" on those sticks and make sure they are what you think they are.After replacing the two old 512 Mb 400ms that where installed before, starting the computer results in several reboots. The bios would load normal, but it seems that the computer reboots as soon as windows starts to load. After checking the messages of the bios load sequence, I noticed that the memory check stops at 512 mb. When I "hit DEL to enter setup" memory is checked to 4096 mb. Looking at the system information in the bios itself, it reads 3072 mb system memory. Reinstalled the old memory and everything is back to normal. Any ideas ? Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Engels on January 23, 2007, 08:17:33 PM I hear that on some motherboards Windows will not report 4 gigs, but something slightly over 3 gigs.
From the Asus site FAQ: Quote I have install total 4GB memory on my motherboard. However, it can only recognize around 3.1GB or less. My friend's SLI board even less than 3GB. What's up? How should I do to recognize 4GB totally? Answer If you installed total 4GB memory, the system will detect less than 4GB of total memory because of address space allocation for other critical functions, such as: - System BIOS (including motherboard, add-on cards, etc..) - Motherboards resources - Memory mapped I/O - configuration for AGP/PCI-Ex/PCI - Other memory allocations for PCI devices Different onboard devices and different add-on cards (devices) will result of different total memory size. e.g. more PCI cards installed will require more memory resources, resulting of less memory free for other uses. On a SLI system, since PCI-Ex graphic cards will occupy around 256MB, another 256MB will be occupied after you install a 2nd PCI-Ex graphic card. Hence, 2.75GB memory left only if two SLI cards installed on A8N-SLI Premium while 3.0GB memory left with one graphic card without other add-on devices. This limitation applies to most chipsets & Windows XP 32-bit version operating system. If you install Windows XP 32-bit version operating system, we recommend that you install less than 3GB of total memory. If more than 3GB memory is required for your system, then below two conditions must be met: 1. The memory controller which supports memory swap functionality is used. The latest chipsets like Intel 975X, 955X, Nvidia NF4 SLI Intel Edition, Nvidia NF4 SLI X16, and AMD K8 CPU architecture can support the memory swap function. 2. Windows XP Pro X64 Ed. (64-bit) or other OS which can address more than 4GB memory. You can check below URLs for reference: ftp://dlsvr01.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/4GB_Rev1.pdf http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/server/sb/cs-016594.htm Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Trippy on January 23, 2007, 08:34:47 PM I hear that on some motherboards Windows will not report 4 gigs, but something slightly over 3 gigs. Interesting. That doesn't explain why 2 supposed 1 GB sticks would add up to 4 GBs, though. There are 2 GB DDR2 sticks available but I don't see any 2 GB DDR sticks available from Newegg or on the Corsair site.Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Der Helm on January 29, 2007, 10:33:54 AM Try each memory stick individually. Also check the timings that are reported in the BIOS (e.g. the "2-3-5-5" type stuff) and make sure those match up with what the memory is rated at. If you can boot from, say, a floppy without crashing trying running Memtest86+ (http://www.memtest.org/). Also that 3 GB/4 GB of system memory reported sounds wrong. Check the "fine print" on those sticks and make sure they are what you think they are. Thanks for the quick answer.Hm. I can't find any settings that look like 2-3-5-5 in my BIOS. What would the be called ? I am almost convinced that I have some of the settings wrong, but I have absolutely no idea, which that could be. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Engels on January 29, 2007, 01:07:30 PM Asus hides it pretty well. If its the same bios version as my A8N32 SLI Deluxe, you want to go to Advanced>CPU configuration, then at the bottom to Memory configuration. There you'll see a bunch of stuff listed, but you won't get to the options you need until you switch one of those settings to Manual. Then it opens up all the colums you need. Further complicating matters is that they use a slightly different naming convention. Instead of CL they call it tCL. Instead of rp they call it trp, etc. The manual, of course, is woefully lacking too. Best to go out to a website and see about memory overclocking for your particular board. With any luck, some charitable soul has done a walkthough. Here's an example of Asus conventions. Just an example
CAS Latency (tCL): 2 RAS to CAS Delay (tRCD): 3 Row Precharge (tRP): 3 Active to Precharge Delay (tRAS): 6 Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: bhodi on January 29, 2007, 01:53:28 PM If you really want to do teaking, toms hardware has a number of good guides. Keep in mind one thing, overclcoking your CPU gets you wayyyyyyyyyyy more than dropping the memory timings, so if you're trying to overclock in the future, and for those watching, it's much better to get your system stable with a higher CPU clock speed and then tweak the memory.
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Engels on January 29, 2007, 02:12:43 PM I personally love the Asus Overclock Profile setting, where you just set it at a percentage (up to 10%) and let the board do all the fiddly bits for you. Overclocking manually is a very harried process involving potentially at least 4 variables. If you were awful at quadratic equations in highschool, you may want to stick to a simple OC profile thingibob like I do. It does the job. My 2.6 Ghz runs at 2.8 Ghz at 29 C idle, 45 C full load using CPU Stability Test. On a factory fan.
Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Trippy on January 29, 2007, 04:28:58 PM Try each memory stick individually. Also check the timings that are reported in the BIOS (e.g. the "2-3-5-5" type stuff) and make sure those match up with what the memory is rated at. If you can boot from, say, a floppy without crashing trying running Memtest86+ (http://www.memtest.org/). Also that 3 GB/4 GB of system memory reported sounds wrong. Check the "fine print" on those sticks and make sure they are what you think they are. Thanks for the quick answer.Hm. I can't find any settings that look like 2-3-5-5 in my BIOS. What would the be called ? I am almost convinced that I have some of the settings wrong, but I have absolutely no idea, which that could be. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Furiously on January 30, 2007, 12:30:06 PM Look for memory timings or DRAM.
Or just run Memtest86+. It will let you know the problem. It's a wonderful thing. Title: Re: Computer help needed Post by: Engels on January 31, 2007, 07:57:06 AM Just a quick word on Memtest86...be sure to turn of USB legacy support in BIOS before running it, or it will fail around test 5 or 6 in some Asus motherboards.
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