f13.net

Ok, so they're giving away the Final Fantasy beta free with the January issue of Official Xbox Magazine that hits shelves on 1/5/06. There's no release date for the game yet, but the full think will be accessible with this beta. So if you never played FFXI and want to over XBL, this is probably the best way to do it. At the very least it should help push keyboards and mice and help give an idea how MMORPGs will work on the new 360.

I also like the idea of betas for console games being distributed with magazines.

If you've played FFXI on the PS2 it seems like you'll already have a pretty good idea of how MMORPG's will work on the 360.  There actually might be a fun game in there somewhere if they ever cut down the grind by about 90%.

And maybe if they increase the choices in the color pallete from just red, brown, black, and white.

So does this mean more Square games on the 360 as well? I must have missed the news (Or forgot about it. Either/Or.).

Don't think they've announced any other games yet, but they have hinted that they may do some multi-platform stuff.  FFXI was probably easy for them to do since it's just a port of a PC game though.

If only FF11 wasn't uh...well, a bad game.

Well, it's pretty neat that they're going to have a beta in Jan.

I mean the x360 uses those PPC cores or whatever, right? FFXI just had an x86 client and a PS2 client.

So it's probably running fullspeed, or close enough, emulated on the x360. Ready ~2 months after launch. Rock on.

Game sucks though, like it's been said. Some great, great ideas hidden beneath about 1,400 lbs of 5 minute old manure.

Looking back....I'm gonna have to say that FFXI is one of the better games in it's genre.

Not to say that's a good thing either though.

[edit] Hell, I don't even remember that much. And what have they had now...Like 3 expansions since release? I'm slightly curious on how it plays out these days.

I wouldn't say it was bad so much as I'd say that it had a few crushing flaws.  It was one of the worst grinds in MMO history, with no ablility to solo or do quests for xp.

I thought it had a good economy though, I liked the way the world looked, and I still wish more MMOs would try to put in a plotline like FFXI did, cutscenes and all.  The job system was decent also although there were only a few combinations that were actually viable.

FF11 was indeed a good game, IMO.  I just couldn't stand the grind in it.  The mechanics, however, were fun and I liked the variants of the classes as well as the job-switching and moogle house.  Even the armors and weapons looked good as long as you could look-past the leather queen stuff low-levels were forced to wear.

I don't know that it'll sell well to the 360 console-crowd, though.  At least the PS2 crowd was used to RPGs with some pointless leveling.

FFXI was good overall, but with a couple horrendously bad flaws that ruined it. The big flaws:

Long travel times.

No quest XP, huge grind.

Waiting around for the perfect group, no soloability.

There were tons of good things about it. Most of the problems they could fix relatively easly. That's the sad part. Just be tweaking a few numbers it could be 3x better. The job system was nice, combat was better than most MMORPGS, the graphics and animation were great, the community was nice, the boss battles were cool and there are a lot of them, etc.

I also didn't care much for them deleting characters from accounts that have been inactive for more than three months.

I don't think they ever did that. It was just a threat to keep people subscribed. I got one of those "come back and play" emails from them a while back so they either were restoring deleted characters (unlikely) or never deleted them to begin with (more likely).

They were actually restoring them for that occasion.  Plenty of people have actually had their characters deleted (while sometimes it does take longer than 3 months) and have been unable to get them restored both before and after that event.

Oh, well, that sucks then.

I thought the original threat was instead of deleting your characters after 3 months, your account and those 5 cdkeys that you had to use stopped working after 3 months of inactivity.

So if you quit, then wanted to come back, you'd have to buy another box. I never ever wanted to come back, so I never tested that.

Yeah FFXI had some really great ideas.  I really liked the game up until around level 22 or so.  Then the grind came crashing down on you.

The forced grouping and basic camping of pull-kill-pull was mind-numbingly boring.  Most of my time was spent waiting for a group.

I will never play a game that requires you to have a full perfect group to kill .... crabs, or better yet, hares.  I'm not kidding.  Yes, they were normal sized crabs and hares.  Yes, they would kick your ass up and down the block solo unless you were 10+ levels higher.  Then you would find the same looking crabs and hares except now stronger in a higher zone.

So much potential wasted on the Korean mentaltiy of grind grind grind ---> ding.

You only have to actually buy a new box if you cancel your PlayOnline account - that's the overall account that the viewer uses that supports FFXI, Tetramaster and whatever other games SE comes up with. That account doesn't have a monthly charge so there's no reason to cancel it. If you just want to stop playing FFXI what you do is cancel the content IDs your characters are tied to. It's those content IDs that get deleted after 12 months.

Stupidly over-complicated yes.

I just resubscribed about 3 days ago and they've made a few changes to make it slightly more solo friendly. They've increased the experience of "Decent Challenge" creatures and they've also implemented a quest that gets you an NPC fighter buddy that you can call on to fight with you for an hour a day. It's still the hardest grind I've ever dealt with in one of these games.

The biggest change I saw since I've been gone is that the low level exping areas are almost deserted. A new person entering the game these days is going to have real trouble making it past those levels because grouping IS required and there just aren't enough people at those levels anymore. Being released on the XBOX 360 should solve that problem but if that weren't coming up soon I'd have real doubts about the long term health of the game.

There were a lot of things I didn't like about FFXI, but the two biggies for me that completely soured me on the game forever were

1.) The multi-hour installation and patching process. I've never seen a more cumbersome and ill-conceived patcher (well, Horizons beta was pretty bad but for other reasons). So many files and 3 steps to actually patch. First, the patcher had to download the file manifest and compare it with the installation. Then it would download the files. Then it would install the files. On broadband, this was a 2-3 hour procedure. I can't even imagine it on dial-up. WoW's torrent patcher is speedy by comparison.

2.) Not being able to choose the server you want to play on. Unless you got real lucky, you could end up spending another hour or two dicking around with creating and deleting your character until you landed on the server you wanted.

I'll never go back no matter what system it appears on. I'd rather have a doberman sharpen it's claw in my eye.

Yes that install/registration/patch system was just horrendous.  Three separate programs with three separate 25 digit registration numbers to play one game, having to go through that worthless, slow, buggy portal each time just to log into the game.

I stopped playing when I realized I was spending most of my time growing plants in the apartment, I liked that a little too much...

Of course I was also bitter because the half dozen groups I had put together to try and get that ghoul/zombie head so that I could get the second job had yielded nothing.  As to the grind - when you feel bad after leveling up because you know that the next level is going to take even longer and you are starting at zero again well, that's a problem.

I enjoyed FFXI, but that was becuase 4 or 5 RL friends and I started it at the same time and basically leveled together. I didn't ever have to deal with the solo grind, and, being a taru white mage (then whm/brd) I never, ever had to worry about finding a party.

I enjoyed the combat system much better than any other morpgs that I've ever played. It really made you feel like you were a team, and getting those uhm, I forget, epic-level black mage spells with the spell chain off was just awesome. I wish other games would implement a complementary combat system like that. When I went to WoW, I felt like I was just in my own little world killing a monster that these other guys just happened to be beating on as well.

Fishbotting didn't hurt, either. I never ran out of cash and I had more or less unlimited space in my house :) All my group could afford the very best in equipment and consumables...

The thing that made me stop was the Genki (or whatever, I don't give a fuck) level limit break quests. My friends and I woke up early on saturday and spent ALL DAY trying to get some papyrus to drop for the quest. Only one dropped. The entire day. I gave my quarter-mil gil in cash and my two dozen or so dressers to my friend and canceled that evening.

Ha ha the Ghoul Head quest. Damn I remember that. I was fighting in the dunes where ghouls appear, everyone in my group got a head except me, then the group disbanded. Found a new group, same thing happened! I just had the worst die rolls.

Finally a high level white mage took me to the Gusgen mines and helped my kill some ghouls there and get the thing I needed. One thing I liked about FFXI was the community was very good overall. Lot's of very friendly, helpful people. Random Japanese level 60 white mages (that was the highest level at the time) helping you out.

Another cool thing now that I think about it is that in a dungeon like the Gusgen mines you would see mostly people level 18-22 or so, but you would also see level 60 guys mining or hunting bosses. Pretty neat that they found a way to mix the levels like that.

I would love to see a FFXI type game made for the "new" drive for casual/solo content.  I really did like the job structure (one character with multiple classes that could be switched at anytime, plus mixing and matching for primary and secondary.)  The artwork was very nice although the color palette was limited.  It certainly had its own style and it was consistent throughout the game.  I could appreciate that.

The combat including the super ultra combo's created amongst the group members was nice, but not necessary.  I liked that as well.  It was kind of a little mini-game within the game that was fun to try and get once inawhile.  Very rarely you would actually get a random group together that could get those things to come off almost everytime.  Sounds stupid, but it was pretty fun at the time.  The special effects were the cherry too.

If they made the lvl'ing curve 1/4 or less what it was, I'd seriously think about joining again.

Oh and YAY CHOCOBOS.

Similar to CoH/CoV if they ever release a version that isn't the grindiest grind that ever did grind I'll play.

EQ's grind crushed my soul at 35, FFXI's grind crushed my soul at like 16, but I made it to almost 40 just because the world was cool, the items were cooler and pve was interesting to me thanks to renkei.  A truly good group could handle so much more then a regular group.  This is not true in WoW at all imo, you have to be ass backwards retarded (MT's that dont sunder) in order to screw up that pve.

Oh god, the dunes... Never has any game conspired to put so many idiots in one place. For those who don't know, here's a quick background summary:

The Vulcrum dunes were levels 18-23. It was also the first zone where that of the newbie zones emptied into, you had a congruence of 3 newbie zones that all fed into it. It was also the first zone that encouraged (read: required) partying, so of course no one knew what the hell their group role was and there was MUCH party wipeage. Remember, in ffxi, if you die, you lose experience. There was none of this WoW candy-ass no-loss carebear death crap.

In order to complete your job quest (the quest that opens the 'subjob' ability) it's required to get several fairly rare drops in the dunes. This normally necessitates spending more time there than is strictly healthy; some particularly unlucky people ended up having to stay there past the leveling curve simply to try and get their skull, or, if they couldn't get the hang of partying, simply remained there, unable to level.

Think of it as quicksand for newbies. If you can figure out how to swim through it you get your skull, your subjob, and only a mild loathing for the place... until it comes time to level your subjob. See, once you get your subjob you have to switch to that class and level it up to at least half your current level! You get to go do the dunes... TWICE. Usually you put off leveling your subjob past 15 until you hit level 30 (leveling it to 15 immediately, figurnig that'll last you until level 30)...

Suddenly your memory of the place as a mild annoyance was proven wrong as you pull your hair out, scream at the monitor, and swear you'll ONLY party with people who already have leveled subjobs and are here for their second go-around. By the time you finish it the second time around, you've developed such a hatred for it that you never want to see it again. The capstone on the whole affair is when you see the SAME PEOPLE in the dunes still trying to get a group as you did the last time you were there! And they're the only ones without a party. Them, and you. Until you settle for a group who only has 2 people without subjob, figuring you'll be ok... but you're not. You die.

And to make it even more fun the healer classes that normally hunt in the dunes are far too low level to resurrect their party members and since it's newbie hell you are absolutely guaranteed that at least one of the guys in your party still has his home point back in his newbie city. If he dies, unless you're very lucky and can flag down a passing high level your group is now incomplete while idiot boy runs all the way back from Windurst.

To me the levelling curve was actually a smaller problem than some others. I mean, it did take way too long. But here are the things that killed it for me.

1: Perfect group syndrome. A great group is literally 10x better than a mediocre group. In a mediocre group you can spend hours going nowhere. In a great group you can rack up XP like crazy. This means it is better to wait around for a really good group than join a mediocre one. Which means you wait around, A LOT. A really good group is going to have a white mage without question, then probably either a red mage/bard and a black mage, a warrior or paladin (or properly decked out ninja) and then a couple more damage dealers. In particular white mages are the main problem, it's almost impossible to group without a white mage and there is always more demand than supply.

2: Travel times. When I played I played with a goup of people who would be doing their own thing, then try to get together and party. But getting together could take 40 minutes to an hour or more. (Take the boat from windurst, travel through dunes, etc) It just took way too long to get to the fun part.

The levelling was bad, but levelling with friends was still fun. My big problem was meeting up with the friends then forming a group with them.

It's a shame because so many aspects of the game were great. Cool items, cool classes, an excellent world, cool (if repetitive) enemies that actually did different things, cool bosses, a plot, a nice atmosphere, etc.

Travel times are fixable and XP is fixable as well. (Just lower XP requirements, make quests give some XP, etc). The waiting for group problem is a bit trickier. They could make the game more solo friendly but I don't even like soloing that much. The one thing the need to do more than anything  is somehow lower the value of the white mage, by making other classes have more comparable healing or lowering the max damage output of enemies or something like that. There are 5 or 6 damage dealing classes that are basically interchangeable but every group must have a white mage. Probably they should just lower the effectiveness of white mage main and raise the effectiveness of white mage sub as well as bard/red mage healing. If a red mage and someone with a white mage sub were as good together as a white mage it would make grouping 10x easier.

Not having the ability to choose a predominantly english speaking server at launch killed it for me.  A forced grouping game with no farking way to communicate with people?  Please.  I also had a hard time getting used to the interface as it was designed for a controller and I refused to use one.  Add to the mix the bloated launcher and patching system and I was fed up with the game within one week.

It's a shame too because as others have said, it had much potential.

I didn't have any problem with the interface. I never used the mouse, just the keyboard. I actually *liked* the interface honestly. (I used the mouse to equip items maybe, that was it. I generally prefer keyboard to mouse)

You know you can always transfer to another server right? The launcher was annoying though, it's supposed to be a portal for all sorts of online games which is why it is more complicated than it should be. (I did play Tetra Master for a month and it was kind of fun) One thing I liked about the interface was that it was not intrusive. Screenshots of FFXI aren't covered with 200 different icons and windows. I like looking at the game rather than dozens of bars and shit like that.

The game is doing quite well though, maybe not so much in the US (I have no idea what the sub numbers are in the US) but worldwide it has been quite a hit. Which is bad because it means FFOnline2 won't have much incentive to fix the bad stuff.

I wonder if it would work to just offer servers where all XP was quadrupled? Would asian players who like the grind switch over or do things the hard way?

There would have to be some incentive to Not play on the 4x XP servers....

You'd be surprised, many wouldn't join them because it cheapens the journey or some other shit.  Also, I wouldn't come back unless someone convinced me the pvp was cool and worked well.

I had all of the previously mentioned gripes, but I also thought the combat system sucked complete ass.

I just couldn't handle the penetrating boredom and terrible interface. Nevermind the forced grouping.

Was the combat system really worse than any other game? The bar for MMORPG combat is pretty low. From waht I could tell it was the same or better than WoW group wise. Solo fighting in FFXI is really plain and boring though. I agree with the WoW comments about, a "group" seemed like a bunch of people randomly running around occasionally helping each other.

Agreed.  The combat was on par.

As for random grouping:  I much rather grouping like WoW, where you can get a group going anytime and it will work.  Yes, there are a lot of things wrong with that, but I've lived the opposite of that in FFXI.  Sitting on my ass for hours lfg is not the answer.  I know it is a casual vs. hardcore thing, but anything that lends itself to a more casual playstyle is good in my book.  I want to be able to accomplish things all within an hour of logging into the game.  FFXI did not have that and that is why I quit.  Most nights I knew I wouldn't be able to dedicate the time to it, so why bother.

I got out of the game way before they added PvP, so I cannot comment on that.  From the reports I saw, it wasn't anything great, but not bad either. *shrug*  I can't remember if the quest based PvP was a hit or not.

From what I gather, the Asian market and the Japanese love it. It's not a game designed for US players, it's a game designed for the Asian market and those people here who are complete Square fanbois and think nothing they do can suck.

The PVP wasn't quest-based, it was more like some kind of Final Fantasy-esque football/rugby game.

Worst thing is if you miss a night, and your buddies spent 4 hours killing crabs, and have since moved on.

Now you're stuck having to make up 4 hours worth of crab killing with pick up groups, which will take about 8 hours or so, in reality, before you can rejoin your friends.

Or, they have to intentionally miss a night while you are gainfully grouped and can pick up the slack.

Plus, the group sizes and everything being totally group dependant it's hard to include everyone. It just causes lots of drama and crap. Totally not worth it.