f13.net

Work gossip RETURNETH (and things)
 
 I haven't bothered thinking or writing about SOE since I quit a few months ago but apparently a lot of other people have.  In fact, it seems that the "unmasking of Faarwolf" raised quite a few questions about work vs. outside life and has (or had) a lot of people talking about it.  Like I said, I've not checked up on any of these sites since I quit so all this is news to me, while it might be old for everyone else out there.

A few minutes ago someone linked me this article on Aggro Me, an EQII/MMO-related blog that I used to read fairly religiously (in fact, I read it as a part of my job at SOE).  Following that, I found a similar article on Broken Toys and several other mentions on various blogs, all of which rather (stupidly in retrospect because really, wtf did I expect?) surprised me.  Not in a BAD way, none of these mentions seem particularly negative really, but just in that it was really worth mention at all.

Anyway, late as this is I'd like to clarify a few things regarding my leaving SOE "to do porn".  First off, I didn't get fired nor was I asked to leave.  I put in my notice a full 2 months before I left in the interest of giving the EQII team ample time to find and train my replacement...which they didn't do anyway since they lagged until after I left.  Secondly, I did my damndest to keep my private and professional lives seperate and I think I did a very good job.  People on the EQII forums often wondered why I refused to have my picture taken at events and why I wouldn't post one of myself like a lot of other Dev team members did.  I even made it into a bit of a game, saying that it was because I looked like a Troll (which had the effect of everyone assuming I was hot).  A few people figured it out but they kept quiet and didn't make a scene, which I very much appreciated.  By the same token, a lot of people on the EQII Dev Team knew about my hobbies outside of work, including upper management, and nobody cared.  A few of them even signed up!  It was never discussed but the general idea seemed to be that as long as it didn't affect my work, nobody really cared.  I never discussed where I worked in my LJ or on my site and I never discussed my hobbies while at work.  In short, it was never an issue.

As my site took off I realized that this wasn't going to be an indefinite situation.  I chose pr0n over EQII Dev because 1. It pays better;  2. I don't have to deal with being micromanaged (or managed at all);  3. After the management changed, I hated my job anyway and 4. EQII was going nowhere (and I HATED San Diego to boot).  I only accepted the job at SOE because I loved my work in the first place; I took a serious pay cut from working in IT to work there as a fucking forum moderator.  I loved it though...I MISS the damn forums sometimes...the haiku, oh my!  But the work environment just became the utter suck so /endjob.

Wanna know what turned me off about SOE?  Well, first off I watched a girl with NO experience at all get promoted over me because she waggled her tits at her boss.  I'm not an office flirt whatsoever and tend to keep to myself, so I totally lost on that front because I wasn't willing to go the hoebag omg-let-me-sit-on-ur-lap route.  I was more like "gtf out of my cube and let me work in peace, you fag" so, no promotions for me.  Strike one.  Strike two was the fact that executive staff at SOE just kept making idiotic decisions and leaving Community Relations to clean up the mess.  They outright lied to the customer base on several occasions and made me, who would have preferred to say "yeah we lied, our bad", make up excuses and bullshit that I knew the customer base wouldn't buy.  I HATED that.  Strike three was the management change.  I do not refer to the promotion of Gallenite - that dude was seriously one of my favorite people at the entire company and a total badass to work with - or really to Blackguard either because he busted his ass and really loved the game.  Largely it was the "we want more but will give you less to do it with" atmosphere, the 65-fucking-page-long manual on how to be a good Rep written by Raph Koster, having meetings in order to schedule meetings (wtf??) and Brenlo constantly micromanaging everything once he got promoted.  Prior to that, I liked him just fine and as a person I still do; I just would never want to work under him again because he wants in on everything and I hate that.  All this, coupled with the fact that the job was completely dead-end unless I wanted to flash some titty or work 18 hour days + in unpaid overtime in order to kiss someone's ass hard enough that they would move me onto a different team pretty much killed the magic for me.  I still have a good view of the company but yeah...I was just done with it.  2 years with no movement at all?  Fuck that.  If I have to jiggle my tits in order to get somewhere then I'll do that on my own time where I'll get paid more to do it.  Pure logic, that.

Once I quit I figured there was no reason to keep it a secret anymore so I talked about it publicly.  Keep in mind that I didn't do that until after I quit SOE though...I never went there while I was an employee;  I've more respect than that.  Also, in regards to selling my EQII Dev stuff on eBay...well, I don't play EQ2 anymore and I got rid of a lot of things I didn't need when I moved, and that was among them.  I saved some stuff - my signed poster, a collector's edition box, etc., but I sold the big stuff to help pay for my relocation.  I'm not what you'd call a sentimental person at all so dragging that stuff around wasn't doing me any good, and anyway the sword was just a Kit Rae stamped with the EQII logo...it's not even really custom made. 

In summary, I think that people should be allowed to do whatever they want to outside of work so long as it doesn't affect their job performance or overall effectiveness, and any vague two-bit arguments about how it's just "not right" or somehow unethical and the people who make those arguments can just take a hike off the highest cliff they can find.  My employer doesn't buy the rights to my life when they start cutting me paychecks, dig?  'Nuff said.

Well, first off I watched a girl with NO experience at all get promoted over me because she waggled her tits at her boss.

Strike two was the fact that executive staff at SOE just kept making idiotic decisions and leaving Community Relations to clean up the mess.

Though my first thought after reading this was that I wanted to see Koster's 65-page manual on how to be a good CSR, which means I've been hanging out here far too long.

Because we like boobies?

we have a weener
Clicky (http://www.codemasters.com/rfonline/screenshots.php)

The two things are completely related - how? Because she obviously doesn't have the....ahem... assets to shake for her boss at SOE or wherever so she went into the porn industry where everyone gets off to *something.

Ya know, this is capitalism. You go with what works. Even if it's a bit ethically shady.

I was finger waggling sad at you because it sounded as if you were complacent.  If you're not, I'll cheer up.  If you are, I'll give you such a pince... someday.

I hope it's as good as the one they had last year. 

The chick disliked her previous job, and made (what appears to be) a single post about it.  It's not like she called the BBB or filed some lawsuit.  I really don't see what she's done to draw anyone's ire on this.  Just because she was a bit naive in expecing the general populace to be more than walking, talking shit-bags doesn't mean she deserves to be slammed for it.

Or are we just being callow dickheads today?

She should have filed a lawsuit if what she says is true.

So now she's obligated to hiring a lawyer, and filing a lawsuit because she felt her boss was a prick?

Do you realise how absurd that sounds?

So now she's obligated to hiring a lawyer, and filing a lawsuit because she felt her boss was a prick?

Do you realise how absurd that sounds?

Isn't your blog where you get to whine and complain?

...look at it from this perspective: f13 posts more derogatory/libellious statements daily in a public forum, and f13 aims itself to be a community information release point for gamers...throwing stones and all you know?

Ziiiinnnngg!!!

Cheap Shot.

Subjective opinions of games and swags about whats going on behind the scenes are quite different than alleging criminal/civil wrongdoing.

I didn't see anywhere in what was posted where she alleged criminal/civil wrongdoing. She made a blog entry in response to a discussion elsewhere regarding her personal reasons for leaving SOE, including a couple of examples about why she felt she was treated unfairly. Alternatively known as posting her subjective opinions about game developers and personal observations about what was going on behind the scenes.

Wanna know what turned me off about SOE?  Well, first off I watched a girl with NO experience at all get promoted over me because she waggled her tits at her boss.  I'm not an office flirt whatsoever and tend to keep to myself, so I totally lost on that front because I wasn't willing to go the hoebag omg-let-me-sit-on-ur-lap route.  I was more like "gtf out of my cube and let me work in peace, you fag" so, no promotions for me.  Strike one.  Strike two was the fact that executive staff at SOE just kept making idiotic decisions and leaving Community Relations to clean up the mess.  They outright lied to the customer base on several occasions and made me, who would have preferred to say "yeah we lied, our bad", make up excuses and bullshit that I knew the customer base wouldn't buy.  I HATED that.  Strike three was the management change.  I do not refer to the promotion of Gallenite - that dude was seriously one of my favorite people at the entire company and a total badass to work with - or really to Blackguard either because he busted his ass and really loved the game.  Largely it was the "we want more but will give you less to do it with" atmosphere, the 65-fucking-page-long manual on how to be a good Rep written by Raph Koster, having meetings in order to schedule meetings (wtf??) and Brenlo constantly micromanaging everything once he got promoted.  Prior to that, I liked him just fine and as a person I still do; I just would never want to work under him again because he wants in on everything and I hate that.  All this, coupled with the fact that the job was completely dead-end unless I wanted to flash some titty or work 18 hour days + in unpaid overtime in order to kiss someone's ass hard enough that they would move me onto a different team pretty much killed the magic for me.  I still have a good view of the company but yeah...I was just done with it.  2 years with no movement at all?  Fuck that.  If I have to jiggle my tits in order to get somewhere then I'll do that on my own time where I'll get paid more to do it.  Pure logic, that.

I also don't think that f13 violates any criminal/civil laws...that wasn't my point.

I was more focused on the fact that we here make some pretty strong observations about our opinions, some of which could be taken much more personally than anything I saw her write ;)

Did you just say "keep it real" language and mean it? In reality land where I'm from I'd call what she said "tactless" and "bad form." But hey, who am I to judge, her job was basically public relations.

That is a clean cut case of sexual harassment.

As for Roac:  It's a blessing to have someone like yourself around here to set all us women straight.  I don't know where we get our wild ideas.  Must be all those hormones or something.  And about not promoting people because they have piercings because it's an indication you are malcontent...

I have to go with Signe here--it's not like she went to PCGamer and did an interview or something.

Blogs are the new personal homepage - nobody gives a shit 99% of the time.

I don't like her.

Angry goth chick refuses to debase herself for money so she goes and debases herself for money.

Wake me when she gets around to doing some penetration.

I don't think your avatar does either.

I'm more inclined to believe that Bush has a master plan for Iraq than I am the SOE allegations from her at this point.

I understand the difference here. Point is. Bitching about using sexuality to get ahead and then going forth and using it as your source of income makes your point null and void.

Err...that's like saying a football player can't complain if you tackle him and start to beat him up while he is grocery shopping.

Err...that's like saying a football player can't complain if you tackle him and start to beat him up while he is grocery shopping. In porn sexuality is the commodity you bring to the table. At most other jobs it isn't supposed to be. I'm not black so I probably wouldn't be hired to play a black man in a movie - does that mean it's also ok to not hire me for any other job? Yeah..not really.

Besides, she looks like the type who hits back guys who say "I'd hit it".

My second point is this: men are genetically programmed to butt heads over pieces of ass and chunks of meat, then go to sleep for the rest of the day. THESE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE IN CHARGE OF CORPORATIONS. Women have been genetically programmed to take care of everybody when the men get themselves killed after butting heads. These people should be in charge of companies.

And to stay on topic

That said, i don't understand your aversion

Assuming Raph wrote a 65 page manual - why would he?  Not that he doesn't have a talent for writing, but I'd have figured there's a manager over CS who would be better suited to the task. 

He ran a big, huge MUD, didn't he?  I was admin on one of those... it's all about handling people, innit?  I bet he did an excellent job on that sort of manual.

Here's the thing, despite my harsh words, I don't mean to crucify this girl. I just want to knock her back to reality land. She shat on a job most people would do for free, complained about someone getting a job position over her on a blog that she knows ex-employees will find out about, and then went into porn. Though, she apparently had already done some porn. Or something. Really, none of that matters to me. At the end of the day she's in desperate need of a smack with the cluebat.

Anyone who would choose to work at a job for a large game company for free, is an idiot.  I think what schild is trying to tell us, is that most people are idiots.  As to Faarwolf/Malice, I think she already is in reality land, and has a firmer grasp on it than most.  At least she's not a Fragdoll.

Forum mods don't get paid?

Half of you guys here need a good spanking.  But why should I?  It's not as if you pay me!

I don't understand what "Stifler" means.

1.  This should be heading for the den...  somebody must be offended about something in here.

Singsong

Nonono.  It's no fun if you try to get it denned.

I think there would be a healthy profit margin from people paying me NOT to post pics of myself naked...

f13 posts more derogatory/libellious statements daily in a public forum

I wonder if she'd be taking less heat over what was a pretty tame post criticizing her previous employers if she hadn't spurned a job that so many here would have been thrilled to take, with a pay cut, just for the entry into the gaming industry?

Assuming Raph wrote a 65 page manual - why would he?  Not that he doesn't have a talent for writing, but I'd have figured there's a manager over CS who would be better suited to the task. 

Assuming Raph wrote a 65 page manual - why would he?  Not that he doesn't have a talent for writing, but I'd have figured there's a manager over CS who would be better suited to the task. 

Everyone coming down hard on this woman should be ashamed of themselves. We all know that women who do porn for a living are perfectly well-adjusted human beings.

I think the green was overkill.  Anyone who bothered to look at her bio knows she's got more than a few issues.  Abusive drugged up parents, school peer problems, leaving home at 16, doing drugs herself...  Yeah.  Well adjusted.

I think the green was overkill.  Anyone who bothered to look at her bio knows she's got more than a few issues.  Abusive drugged up parents, school peer problems, leaving home at 16, doing drugs herself...  Yeah.  Well adjusted.

Alkiera

And she seems to be anti-male.

And she seems to be anti-Raph.

Then she's more qualified to be running SOE than the current management. Is there some other relevance to any of this?

This is the dumbest thread I've ever read here. What a load of sanctimonious bullshit.

Having started the thread, I have to ask, do you know what that means? Or were you not talking to me. Because, having read back, I was being anything BUT sanctimonious.

We're not being callow dickheads. She's being the WindupNutsackette of SOE. She should have filed a lawsuit if what she says is true.

I honestly cannot believe how much attention the throwaway remark about the 65 page community relations policies manual has gotten. :P

Internet, Seriouis  Buziness. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/malice_bd/2005/12/08/)

With that I think the thread can die.  :-D

ere we have a bunch of geeks who probably have never even laid eyes on a real woman whose last name wasn't Dotjaypeegee talking shit about me...why?

I honestly cannot believe how much attention the throwaway remark about the 65 page community relations policies manual has gotten. :P

We love Raph and need to know every aspect of his life.  Especially the bits he doesn't want us to know.  He has kind eyes and a sweet smile, too.

But would you hit it?
 :evil:

I'm a married woman.  Of course I wouldn't "hit it".  But he does have kind eyes and a sweet smile and I'm sure he gets offers from people wanting to hit him all the time. 

Internet, Seriouis  Buziness. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/malice_bd/2005/12/08/)

With that I think the thread can die.  :-D

Am I the only person here that hasn't seen what Raph looks like?

Now I feel cheated.

Well, now someone has linked her site to this site.  This will end in pear poon shaped tears.

Well, now someone has linked her site to this site.  This will end in pear shaped tears.

I'm still trying to decide who is worse now since people are starting to get really ANGRY. over the INTERNET.

Us for the whole "lol internet" discussion where we chuckle amoung ourselves for stating the obvious (that she's a whore, and an angry one at that) and slapping eachother on the back because HOO BOY WE SURE PEGGED HER (despite however right we may be).

Or her, for being an angry whore. She should just shrug, turn on the webcam, and make out with her ugly girlfriend some more. She's gotta be at least a subscription or two up with all this fun internet going on.

I do give her one thing though, while she's around a 7/10 after the liberal use of photoshop and eyeliner, she knows good site design.

While I agree with some of what's been said about her (Internet.Serious.Business, try-too-hard keepin'-it'real-ness) I don't see the need to label her a whore. Well an attentioon whore yes, but a regular one, no. She's got a nice face and decent body, and if she wants to make money off of that, who gives a shit?

Who's worse?  The sycophants who post on her website I guess.  I don't know, there's just something sad about a bunch of Internet geeks who are kissing a woman's ass on a porn site in the vain hope that she might one day let one of them fuck her, trying to act superior to other groups of Internet geeks.

Wow, surely you jest. But in case you're serious, http://www.raphkoster.com. See him play the guitar!

She's still an angry whore though.

I say we turn this thread into a contest to see how uncomfortable we can make Raph for having posted in it.

See, I don't see which bit makes her a whore. She apparently only fucks her girlfriend on the website, and the rest of the time it looks like she just squeezes her boobies together and shakes her rump. Which is pretty much like a stripper. A whore is generally taken to be a woman who fucks anyone who moves/is super easy (as opposed to a "stud", which is apparently a good thing).

Unless you've just got some conservative/puritan moral code that says anyone who is naked and seen by anyone outside their bedroom is automatically a whoresluthooker...

But she's not fucking YOU. Which is a semantic difference. Though it depends on who's interpretation/dictionary we're using if you want to get really pedantic. She's in California, right? They have specific laws there which say that making porn is not "prostitution", which is why pretty much the whole US porn industry is there.

Of course, if the argument sinks to arguing over exact word meanings, we're kinda missing the point. Which is that "whore" is a pretty derogatory term, much like "fag" or many others I don't need to go into here. I'm wondering why Fab has decided to choose that word. Whether he's just being a net.badass or looks down on people in any aspect of the skin trade or whether he has some moral qualms with it..

I have to be sympathetic. It's good karma.

He chose the word whore because she sells her body, duderino. What I'm interested in is why you care so much. Whoring isn't illegal in vegas. Does that make prostitutes less prostitute....ty? How about this, she's an intarweb escort service. The closest thing you're going to get to the internet is selling a video of yourself and a shampoo bottle or whatever. I mean really, did he touch you in a bad place?

1. Her website isn't free. She's selling her body. Making money off of it. Whatever.
2. Words are hard.

He chose the word whore because she sells her body, duderino. What I'm interested in is why you care so much. Whoring isn't illegal in vegas. Does that make prostitutes less prostitute....ty? How about this, she's an intarweb escort service. The closest thing you're going to get to the internet is selling a video of yourself and a shampoo bottle or whatever. I mean really, did he touch you in a bad place?

There is an enormous amount of pornography on the internet.

Internet karma? I guess Miss Boobies won't be getting much love from the gaming industry then.

whore    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (hôr, hr)
n.
A prostitute.
A person considered sexually promiscuous.
A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.

intr.v. whored, whor·ing, whores
To associate or have sexual relations with prostitutes or a prostitute.
To accept payment in exchange for sexual relations.
To compromise one's principles for personal gain.

Poptart: One word for you: Teledildonics.

Alright, fuckit. I'm getting tired of the semantics and I didn't want to go here:


Why? Because she's willing to shake her tits while dressed as a goth kiddie for direct cash but not willing to show a little cleavage for indirect cash - a raise. She's a goddamn whore.

Now, there's nothing wrong with that. I had a subscription to suicidegirls.com for a while for christ's sake. But seriously, go back to my original problem. She complained about showing cleavage because she shouldn't "have to" and then goes (back?) into porn. Christfuck. Stop taking it so personally. And stop using the term whore so literally.

Poptart: One word for you: Teledildonics.

Just do a safesearch with a celebrity name n00b. I've manually REMOVED the option for safesearch from google in my browsers. I don't even like the option. It's far too inviting.

I will have to remember this particular topic for later use. People get really weird about the word whore.

Safesearch?

Just used that and still found naked tits.

There is an enormous amount of pornography on the internet.

You know where else you can use the word whore?

Camping whore.

AWP WHORE.

Loot whore.

Yeah, some people seem to take it a bit like kike, spic, wetback, wog, jew, gook, slope, chink, faggot, fag, poof, poofter, nigger, nigga, and so forth if it's used in a derogatory sense by people looking down on them, rather than as a "reclaimed" word. Feel free to edit any of those terms if they go against this forum's rules of good taste, etc. BTW, I'm at least of those terms I just typed, which I guess means it's ok for me to use those ones, but not the others.

Though she's definately an attention whore. But really, who truly gives a shit outside of her "it's a girl on the internet" fanbois?

I'm interested in seeing the word whore "reclaimed" by the downtrodden masses of whores everywhere.

Alright, fuckit. I'm getting tired of the semantics and I didn't want to go here:


Why? Because she's willing to shake her tits while dressed as a goth kiddie for direct cash but not willing to show a little cleavage for indirect cash - a raise. She's a goddamn whore.

But dewd, a few posts up, according to you she was a whore because she's showing her titties on the interweb for money. Now she's a whore because you think she's compromised her principles. Make up your mind.

Where's my powerglove.

At this point I'm thinking we should send her a thank you letter for this topic.

We could send her one of these: NSFW (http://www.slashdong.org/images/articles/freesex1/freesex.jpg)

I'll pay shipping.

God, and that's the EXACT SAME MIDTOWER CASE I USE.

God, and that's the EXACT SAME MIDTOWER CASE I USE.

Should we expect a review this weekend?

You foxy minx! I didn't know you ran slashdong. I thought I met Kyle at AGC!

I kid you not, I just spent the last 1/2 hour trying to find a picture of non-naked tits (that I didn't have to retouch) and all I could find was this:

(http://www2.victoriassecret.com/images/category/11-17-05/OSBRPZZZZZZ/ftr1.jpg)

It's thursday.

Azazel obviously has some personal bad experience to be trying this hard.

That said, Azazel, stop reaching. Whore stopped being derogatory in 1994. Now, cunt, that's a derogatory thing to call a woman. Also clambake and spunkbucket - but whore? No.

Are you hiding something? I don't know a single guy who really knows any girl born after 1975 who would be as offended as you by the word whore. PARTICULARLY girls who dwell in netspaces. My grandparents would be offended, my mother would be offended, but they haven't been desensitized by the intarweb. And if this girl is offended? Then she's a stupid and naive as well.

Clambake?

Cultural differences? Around here "Hure"(=Whore) still gets women riled up and angry quite good. Maybe in Australia as well?

More azazel...

You really have no idea how offended or not I am by the word though mate, I'm as faceless as you are.

Dude, I've said 50 times I have no problem with it and I'm not using it offensively. You, however, are obviously tiffed by the word. I'm asking why. If you don't want to talk about it, that's cool. But understand right now, that dude, sometimes a whore doesn't need a dick in her to be a whore.

Maaaate. I told you that I think the word is disrespectful and stupid. Admittedly, using it as part of slinging generalised shit to faeless people on the internet isn't so bad, but MTV's grind or not, I think you'll get slightly more than a "meh" reaction if you use it in the real world. You work at EB or some other software store, right? Try usinmg it to your female customers in an inoffensive tone. "How may I help you, whore?" if you'd like to test it's inoffensiveness.  :roll:

And your last sentence. ..so after all that work you did with semantics and quoting dictionary.com or whereever you googled that definition from, after having all your arguments beaten, (SHE COMPROMISED MY PRINCIPLES!!~) you've just decided to just go back to the most base argument of all, with some "you're taking this way to personally, d00d" throw in.. So sad.  :heartbreak: (you need a crying smiley)

I'm still talking about it since I'm clearing space off this machine across the network and I can't do anything more productive like play WoW or BF2 or SWBF2 for a bit. On the other hand, you're still bullshitting on as much as I am...

..does this mean you really care?

Are you guys gonna kiss?

Are we in an EB? Is this not the internet?

The definition was all I needed. You're still going. She didn't comprimise my principles. She comprimised HER principles. She didn't want to shake tits for a job she took demotions for but she'll shake tits for namesless people on the net. Like I said, words are hard. She couldn't comprimise my principles if she did a broadway play involving a man dressed as Gandhi fucking her in the ass while she was dressed up as Hitler and having someone in the crowd dressed up as Pol Pot handing out propaganda papers.

Showing your body for money isn't comprimised principles for personal gain? I'm sorry, I'm pretty sure I have the majority of earth on my side in saying that it is, no matter how much I love zee porn.

I really, really do. This is the closest thing to drama we get in the industry. And trust me when I say this, we take what we can get. Are you her girlfriend? SHE'S NOT PAYING YOU WELL, IS SHE?

The definition was all I needed. You're still going. She didn't comprimise my principles. She comprimised HER principles. She didn't want to shake tits for a job she took demotions for but she'll shake tits for namesless people on the net. Like I said, words are hard. She couldn't comprimise my principles if she did a broadway play involving a man dressed as Gandhi fucking her in the ass while she was dressed up as Hitler and having someone in the crowd dressed up as Pol Pot handing out propaganda papers.

Then I defended Fabricated for stating the obvious. And some people got all in a tizzy. I'll go to sensitivity training before I decide to put sand in some users' manginas next time.

In a thread about sexuality and porn, OF COURSE the first applied definition of whore is the literal one, not the other one. But the problem with Schilds opinion is not the usage of the word whore. His problem is that he thinks there is no difference between women who market their body on their own and women that are forced (or think to be forced) to market their body to achieve things on an unrelated field.

My god you people were bored last night.

My god you people were bored last night.

 But the problem with Schilds opinion is not the usage of the word whore. His problem is that he thinks there is no difference between women who market their body on their own and women that are forced (or think to be forced) to market their body to achieve things on an unrelated field.

This was your opinion as well? Sorry, missed that.

I honestly cannot believe how much attention the throwaway remark about the 65 page community relations policies manual has gotten. :P

This entire thread has a big fat hairy ass.

Pfft. We've all heard it before I'm sure. It's like she printed it from a textbook. How did this hit 7 pages again?

I'm a married woman.  Of course I wouldn't "hit it".  But he does have kind eyes and a sweet smile and I'm sure he gets offers from people wanting to hit him all the time. 

He seems very hugable.

- btw, the CRM for a game should be considered a lead on the team

btw, yes, you need to run forums. All our games will have forums henceforth. Here's the stock policies on bannings, etc.

- here's some advice on handling problems: always be honest, be prompt, don't overpromise, etc etc.

Your puritan founding fathers really fucked you guys up, didn't they?

A webcam is running while she fools around with her girlfriend. If for you that is the same thing as her spreading for some sweaty fat stranger then you have to straighten out your unpleasentometers.

She is in porn business, but she is no whore. She chooses her sexual partner and what she does with him/her. The difference might not be that great for a horny male, but it makes all the difference to a woman, or so I was told.

She's a whore? No, she stopped working at SOE and now runs her own porn site. She used to be a whore, now she's a businesswoman.

This thread pretty much sums up the entire internet.  

I can think of a few key things missing from it still.  D Smrt, Furries, and mangina.  It's damn close though.

I will agree with schild on one thing. She's a huge fucking hypocrite.

Why? Because she whines and complains that the reason she didn't get promoted was because another female in the offcie jiggled her titties at the bosses and she didn't. Yet, she makes money now (and then apparently) by jiggling her titties on a web site for complete strangers.

Should jigglies be required for a better position in an office that does not need employees with jigglies to function?
No

Did the women in question display jigglies and get preferencial treatment at said office?
Source untrustworthy, lack of information from all parties.  It will never be settled without a doubt.

Am I missing anything?

Oh to the question of firing her in the first place:

If I bring in a print out of other women's jigglies for them to be signed out of adoration, is that wrong?
Is it? Or is pornography banned from the office?  Are pornographers banned as well?  Should I have her sign it after work someplace else?  Is it any different then?  At what point in the day do I acceptably go from coworker or boss to fan?

If she didn't have a site, but allowed coworkers to view her body after work for money, should she have kept her job then?  How is having a site to do the same thing any different?

As a manager, I'd have fired her too.

In the end she wins, because there is no such thing as bad publicity.

Internet, Seriouis  Buziness. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/malice_bd/2005/12/08/)

With that I think the thread can die.  :-D

NSFW fucker.

If I bring in a print out of other women's jigglies for them to be signed out of adoration, is that wrong?
Is it? Or is pornography banned from the office? Are pornographers banned as well? Should I have her sign it after work someplace else? Is it any different then? At what point in the day do I acceptably go from coworker or boss to fan?

Eh? I didn't pay attention, just went to the LJ site rather than the other because the other was most definatly not.

However, the whole thread's about porn and her porn site, I have no idea why you thought it'd be safe in the first place.


You never move from 'boss' to 'other' as long as that person works under you.  Examples of successful suits on the part of the plantiff that were given in the previous harassment & managers seminar I was at included: A party at being held at an employee's house and someone put on some porn.  One of the coworkers made a comment about how one of the actresses looked like one of the female coworkers while she was there.  A manager was present as well, and laughed along.  The manager was successfuly sued for creating a hostile working environment.

Whoopsie.

In other words, her life is the MMOG release cycle.

I think if everyone masturbated at least 50% more than they currently do, we'd all be a much happier people. And more tired. And hungry.

How about whiny? Two-faced? Disingenuous?

It may be whiny, but if it is true I don't really see it as very whiny. It certainly is not two-faced or disingenuous. It's really very simple - at a job you should be judged based on *relevant* criteria. It's a very straightforward, simple and easily defendable position. What the person may be doing at some other job really doesn't matter. The problem here, again, is not that someone was flirting or shaking her rack. The problem was they got promoted (supposedly) for it. Whether or not the complainer shakes her rack at another job (which requires it) or at a bar after work really isn't relevant at all.

"Ho-ho-ho"

(http://www.blueharvest.net/images/xmas/xmasyoda.jpg)

Edit: kitten add

(http://www.chris-franklin.co.uk/news/december/912/friends/kitten.jpg)

NSFW fucker.

Wow, you people stayed up all night internetting away.

I hear that thar interweb is global thing

GMT ftw! (or something)

Europeans do not have computers.  We all know that.

 I missed the monthly interesting thread :( Damnit, there is always January!

I have to admit, I never even read the first 10 or so posts.

Wow, you people stayed up all night internetting away.

I would just like to state that the more I get flamed, the more money I make. That's right...people talk about me, which makes other people get curious enough to check me out, and then a couple dozen sign up. I've gotten over a dozen new signups since that discussion started. They talk about how they think I'm unattractive, but then they post dozens of pictures of me and link my site and give me even more traffic ^^. And other guild members email me going omfg you're hawt! It all serves my purpose...the more you bitch about and try to mock me the more good you're actually doing me.

Please, please please sign up for the girl's site. I want to see how many people it would take to make her realize she's shaking her tits for a promotion.

When you run a "porn" site and still can't afford a working car, that might be a good sign that maybe you didn't make the greatest career choice.

Over a dozen since this crap started? Big fucking deal.

Holy shit...180 people on my site right now. 180 x $16/mo = another $2880. I <3 flamers.

I would just like to state that the more I get flamed, the more money I make. That's right...people talk about me, which makes other people get curious enough to check me out, and then a couple dozen sign up. I've gotten over a dozen new signups since that discussion started. They talk about how they think I'm unattractive, but then they post dozens of pictures of me and link my site and give me even more traffic ^^. And other guild members email me going omfg you're hawt! It all serves my purpose...the more you bitch about and try to mock me the more good you're actually doing me.

I couldn't even bring myself to read that dribble.

Whore stopped being derogatory in 1994. Now, cunt, that's a derogatory thing to call a woman. Also clambake and spunkbucket - but whore? No.

Are you hiding something? I don't know a single guy who really knows any girl born after 1975 who would be as offended as you by the word whore. PARTICULARLY girls who dwell in netspaces. My grandparents would be offended, my mother would be offended, but they haven't been desensitized by the intarweb. And if this girl is offended? Then she's a stupid and naive as well.

Reality check please.  I graduated high school in 1975, but I cannot believe things have changed this much.  I've been on the intarweb for a very long time, and am desensitized by most things, but I don't buy this.  I think most of the females I know of any age would be mightily offended to be called a whore.

Whore stopped being derogatory in 1994. Now, cunt, that's a derogatory thing to call a woman. Also clambake and spunkbucket - but whore? No.

I was referring to girls that graduated high school after MTV's Grind started coming on the air at 4pm after school. Or even after 90210/Dawson's Creek/etc. I'm a little over a year out of college and the generation that I graduated with graduated whore into its vernacular about a little more than a decade ago. Slut is still a little taboo, but whore? Definately not, we're talking about a demographic youth between 18-25 that thinks a nice dinner is necessary before any sort of sex.

Also see: Girls Gone Wild and any number of the dating shows on the air compared to what was on in the 70s.

Coincidentally, this is also the generation quite raised on modern video games.

Oh yea, and rap. If rap can't desensitize you, nothing will.

Nothing pisses me off more than a bunch of men pretending to be experts on women.

Give it up, mate. You don't get to tell girls what they are or should be offended by. You're just some faceless wanker on the internet, like the rest of us.

Turnabout is fair play considering Cosmopolitan is still around.

Okay. Signe's mad. Not good.

As Ironwood just said, it barely registers.

Nothing pisses me off more than a bunch of men pretending to be experts on women. 

If you really want to be cutting edge, you call a woman a Slore (slut + whore, i think you get it).

It'll put a hare on your chest, I swear.

Bruce?

I freely confess to not being an expert on women, so I asked one. She looked at me with that "Are you *seriously* asking me this question" death stare, so I'd have to say no, being called "whores" do not amuse women. Generally, I've found they prefer being called by their name, or occasionally "pooky", or in the rarest of cases "chica". But if you use "whore" as an endearment, you probably think you are a "pimp". Note: you're not.

Don't explain yourself. Nobody listens.

I hear the explanation changes every post. GO GO INTERNET!


But we were at one point discussing if Ms CSR was a "whore" since she poses naked on the interweb which somehow morphed into "calling her a whore really isn't offensive, says me, so it's ok."


Swearing in Scotland is ok, 'cos they're all 'ard men. And you know what they say about 'ard men...

@Der Helm: Use a bicycle!

He is right. Well, in parts at least. The German equivalents of whore (Nutte and Hure to be specific) are comonly used amongst them. But the intention is still to piss of the other person, but it does not seem to make much of an impression.

...I am not willing to put this theory to a test and actually call another human being ( or a woman for that matter :evil: ) anything degoratory, I am too old to run away from mobs of mad women.

Finally I see the problem.

Me being in the 30-40 bracket, Schild is one of those youngsters that don't speak the same language as us old people!

Get off my lawn, boy! And take that Fabri friend of yours with you or I'll call Mrs. Cated!

Of the attention kind, definately, of the slut kind, nope.

So yeah, you guys must be out of touch or something. :P

EDIT: I DO remember one incident when a friend called a girl a slut and she went off crying and wouldn't look at him for days, but that was back in 7th grade.

7th grade ? Whoa, I am more out of touch than I thought. I am not sure lots of 7th graders knew even the meaning of the word slut.

12-13 years old in the states. And hell yes most 7th grade girls know about the word slut. Hell, I remember hearing it more during the summer between 6th and 7th grade than I did during my entire time in college.

I feel old!

Fuck off and die the lot of you!

Raph's manual really is more interesting than her.  Promise.

Swearing in Scotland is ok, 'cos they're all 'ard men. And you know what they say about 'ard men...

Admit it, El Gallo is paying you to "get my baby to 10!"

I like nipples.

I bet Raph has beautiful nipples. I bet a person could write a 65-page manual on Raph's nipples.

I have it on good authority that her milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard.

There needs to be a "dead to me" button that permanently removes a thread from my view, so I don't accidently one of these degenerate threads again.

Your sentence. It is missing words.

I am quite certain there is not a single item in the whole world that lacks a novelty version with tits attached.

I like nipples.

I bet Raph has beautiful nipples. I bet a person could write a 65-page manual on Raph's nipples.

Not that I particularly want to wade into this whole whore debate, but schild is actually right here. I use "whore" and "slut" all the time (though most often addressed to my mates/brother).

So yeah, you guys must be out of touch or something. :P

EDIT: I DO remember one incident when a friend called a girl a slut and she went off crying and wouldnt look at him for days, but that was back in 7th grade.

  It's about titties. 

Translation: My limited personal experiences (which apparently involve calling fellow males the term) = a representitive sampling of the offensiveness of the word to females, everywhere.
uh-huh.

Meh. I really should have known better than to try it. Once people get the "you're wrong" attitude in place they don't give a flying fuck what is said or who is saying it.

You're wrong about that.

10 paces, turn, and fire.

Yeah, you guys really hate your kids, don't you ?

A US-Europe "who hates their kids more" pissing contest is the only thing I can think of that would make this thread better.

And we're off!

Yeah, you guys really hate your kids, don't you ?

Fucking Goddamned Euros.

What about them ?

(http://viladoconde.blogs.sapo.pt/arquivo/euros.jpg)

One response from Ironwood, not mentioning locality at all (I took the "you" to mean the two posters above, perhaps I'm wrong).

Five responses from others, baiting Ironwood into a fight.

Yes.. lets blame Ironwood.  Fucking Goddamned Euros.

Fuck the democrats, try being an american libertarian. In the land of fucking liberty, fer crissakes.

You are an Anti-American dick. All of us Europeans are. Also, last I heard most US democrats are. Enjoy the company.

Bummer about your posting hours, I share your pain.

Canadians think I'm a dick too ?


I give up.

Canadians think I'm a dick too ?


I give up.

Nix is Canadian.

He's pleasant, albeit strange.

Not before page 12!

Why must you hate all Americans? Just hate on the administration.

All Americans can be democratically elected to be a part of the administration.

Well, that was the original concept anyway.

I think that nicely sums up all the Canadians I know, actually.  Not that I'm stereotyping.

"To put someone up" means to provide them with room and board on a temporary timescale.

Why must you hate all Americans? Just hate on the administration.

Whore.

Will jiggle manboobs for page 13!

How can this man be allowed to continue to censor ME!  It's not fair, I tell you!

Can us Canadians jump in on this too?

I really don't like your use of the word "we" and you generalizing statements about "us."

I honestly cannot believe how much attention the throwaway remark about the 65 page community relations policies manual has gotten. :P

I wrote it when I was asked to create a community relations dept at SOE. That happened shortly after I got the CCO job. Prior to that, there was no dept, there were CRMs on individual games, and there was no consistent policy. EQ had no forums, SWG had extnsive community stuff, other games were somewhere in between.

The manual says, in short form,

- if you're not into community, here's why you should do it: retention, acquisition, respecting your customer. Here's some hard data to prove it.
- the jobs you need are: mods, events person (if you will do that part), community relations manager, possibly assts to them, and QA/CS liaison. Here's handy job descs you can use when hiring.
- btw, the CRM for a game should be considered a lead on the team
- you need to meet regularly with the following folks: marketing, CS, QA, producers, team leads. You need to tell them what's up, what the community is antsy about, what stuff you're doing, and you need to hear what stuff they are doing with the game
- you should be doing the following: forum posts (multiple a day). Newsletters -- not marketingy ones either. Features on the website including behind the scenes stuff. Fun little contests and such on the forums. Showcasing player-made stuff, like art, fan films, roleplaying, etc. You really should think about having a correspondent program.
- btw, yes, you need to run forums. All our games will have forums henceforth. Here's the stock policies on bannings, etc.
- here's some advice on handling problems: always be honest, be prompt, don't overpromise, etc etc.
- here's the escalation process when something goes all woppy-jawed.
- here's some books and websites tht might be helpful (Amy Jo Kim's book, etc)
- now, the entire second half of the manual is the latest boring legal policies that you have to post on all the sites.

That's pretty much it.

We then proceeded to get forums for every game, CRMs for every game, and most of the doc implemented. And then Alan took over running the newly created dept.

The End.

Someday I'll write a nice shiny book on Community Relations after convincing Raph and Brenlo to work on it with me, and this is a great bit of reference material. Long, yes, but very useful.

I've read through the manual a few times, and we pretty much run according to the book that it is. I'm a lead on EverQuest II (CRM), I have reps for three languages, we have an events person on the team, two QA liaisons, and all the other fun stuff. Someday I'll write a nice shiny book on Community Relations after convincing Raph and Brenlo to work on it with me, and this is a great bit of reference material. Long, yes, but very useful.

Brenlo is a complete and total tool. 

Scratch that.

I have more respect for my hedge trimmers than that guy...

Cevik,

I really don't like your use of the word "we" and you generalizing statements about "us."

I have no hand in what these idiots do, and did what I could to prevent what has occured. It's really not fair for you to simply clump people like me with the idiots that oh-so-passionately voted these people in, because they were scared of brown people.