f13.net

Wow.

So, if I have two PS3s (which I eventually will), I can't play my games on both. Oh. That's great.

Fuck them. Fuck them in their tiny puckered up yen assholes.

Wow, what a bunch of cockholsters.

I'm no advocate but they I'm beginning to think that they really are anti-consumer and the spawn of Satan.   Every single product... music, games, consoles, everything... makes me  definitely understand why some people hate them to the point of distraction.

More and more people (err..companies) are anti-consumer these days.

This should combine well with the proven track record of of first-gen Playstation systems constantly breaking.

I predict Sony's demise in the game industry if they're dumb enough to put this in the PS3. No fucking way rental places, used game sellers, and *gasp* consumers will put up with this. Period.

Fab can you post a source link?

I may have been tricked here. Which relieves me actually. Looking.

edit: Thanks to IGN's fucking piece of shit website, I can't actually view the forum post that says it. The title of the post is "The PS3 may not play used games."

Before you laugh, the person that broke the news is Ikachii, who is a "VIP" and "IGNcube Japanese Correspondent" at IGN.

It's not complete heresay, but eh.

Edit Edit: Here's a link to the guy's profile. If one of you can somehow view his post on the PS3 not playing used games, by all means. God IGN is a piece of shit.

http://users.ign.com/about/ikachii?boards=ign

So if a person does have two PS3's, or try and play their game on a friend's system how does the 2nd PS3 no the games has been played before. Unless the first writes something to the disk or connects to the internet to authorize I have no idea how this is plausible.

Sounds like the disc would be one-time writable and booting it up performs that write.

My guess would be that this is a technology they proofed out but won't actually include in the PS3. Way too many obvious problems.

what if your ps3 breaks down? you'd have to buy an entire new library of ps3 games. Yeah, I'm sure this is going to work.

You definately mean "when it breaks down."

This makes my brain hurt.  The market willl embrace what makes it money.  Having noone buy your shit because of archaic practices enacted for some digital witch hunt should ensure this crap from becoming a problem.

Hmm, that webpage didn't make much sense to me. I know that they said that PS3 would be backward compatible with both the PS2 and PSX at E3 2005, but I guess things can change. If it's true I'm certainly not geting a PS3.

Smells like bullshit to me, but if this does somehow end up in the PS3, there is no way in hell I'll be buying one.  Ever.  I don't care if every game is Robot Jesus.

I call bullshit.  No way.  Although it would be great to deliver such a cockpunch to EB, thieving bastards.  The PS3 discs would have to be writable, and that isn't a good idea.  How would you make a disc that is writable only in one spot?  Magical blue rays?

The problem with doing this is loss of rental revenue. Think about how many copies of each game are sold to all the Hollywoods and Blockbusters out there. No way Sony wants to lose that much money.

No, the whole thing sounds unreasonable.  Of course, if any unreasonable decision like this were to be made, it is likely that Sony would be the ones to make it.  They are the poster child for cutting edge, state of the art unreasonable.

United States Patent 6,816,972 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=%28Kutaragi.INZZ.+AND+Sony.ASNM.%29&OS=in/Kutaragi+AND+an/Sony&RS=(IN/Kutaragi+AND+AN/Sony)



Most of that page made my brain hurt but it looks like the main point they are supposedly addressing is to prevent illegal copying of their games. Of course the fact that it kills the used software market is a bonus as well.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27568

I't like they're begging for a pounding from consumer-rights groups and related government agencies. Such a blatant attack on the "first sale doctrine" must be a first - not counting failed technology like those decaying DVDs.

(MMOs probably don't count since they are just clients to a service; though EULAs generally forbid you to resell your account that's done all the time.)

At least such a limitation would mean that the game prices need to be lower since the resell value is 0. Perhaps half of the game prices for the 360? Time will tell. If the prices are high despite such a restriction, there will be an outcry.

Bah on both of them anyway: Roll on the Revolution. :D

If this does make it into the PS3, I kind of suspect that it will only be in the Japanese ones. Hell, game rentals are illegal there already.

Really?  Are movie rentals okay?  I guess you can buy used games though, right?

Too strange....

Not to mention their primary demographic, kids that have to go beg mom for the credit card number.  It's the most a lot of these kids can do to afford their habit with used games.

It's almost like corporations across the board have decided to cede the field to new competitors.  All hail the quarterly bonus awards!

Companies can only become anti-consumer when a) the consumer tolerates it by continuing to purchase from the company or b) the company has a monopoly.

If people would stop buying crap en masse from companies with shit business practices, then maybe this trend will change.  Consumers have power, they are not victims.

You forgot:

c) They get laws passed through Congress and do an end run around free market principles.

I'm pretty sure movie rentals are okay, and the used games market in Japan is huge (partially because a slight tear in the shrink wrap counts as 'used' in Japan). I have no idea how it'd go over, but my personal suspicion is that the Japanese are much more willing to bend over and take it than Americans would be. But I'm probably either underestimating Japanese gamers or overestimating American gamers.

EDIT: Oh, I overlooked this:


AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Yeah, I'm sure.

So it's a real patent.

I will never buy a console that has this tech installed. Fuck Sony, fuck the little douchebag pigfucking muffinsnatching crotchlice-ridden teabagging twat-waddling braindead limp-wristed monkey shit that thought this up.

Do I like that EB Games makes a killing on selling used software? No, but I do like not having to pay $50 for a game that's 2 or 3 months old. Price is a significant issue in my game purchases, and rentals make that much more palatable (if the local Blockbuster ever had fuckall in stock). But first you want to tell me I can't buy those used games anymore, not even from someone I know like my buddy, but I can't even go get a rental to try a game out or borrow a buddy's copy? Or if, God forbid, your shitty manufacturing standards cause my hypothetical PS3 to shit the bed 3 months after I buy it and all my games become magical coasters?

Fuck you. Fuck you in your puckered tight little assholes, you stupid clown shoes cockgobbler.  

Copyright laws and the existence of piracy do not give you the right to fuck me out of fair use.

Hey. Easy on the clown shoes, bub.

 :hello_kitty:

Clowns aren't people.  They are target practice for people.

Is this where I jump in and say "ha ha, Nintendo ftw"?

Yes.

*Waits patiently for Nintendo's next console (codename Revolution, not necessarily called that when it releases next year)*

Though I did sell my Gamecube. *hangs head in shame*

But, seriously, if Sony does the "no secondhand market" trick plus their apparent lack of interest in online gaming, they will end up as the next generation's Dreamcast.

There have been other technologies similar to this.  I remember reading a while ago about movies that would only play once (or a limited number of times) that video rental places could sell and the user wouldn't be responsible for returning the movie.

I wouldn't worry too much about Sony owning a consumer-fucking patent.  Although, I wouldn't put it past them to throw a game or two out there using this tech, just to test the waters.

DVD-X or something like that. Lasted all of 5 minutes.

Any of you lawyers patent lawyers?

Well, there is the rootkit thing, so they just might.

DivX. The original use of that name, not the video codec they use now. Some people, like my dad, actually bought it, and for him it was a decent product since he doesn't watch movies repeatedly. Thankfully, it got shitcanned.

The Dreamcast was LOVE.  Corporate anti consumer assfucking is NOT love. 

Absolutely. I picked up a used Dreamcast and some games a couple weeks ago. Been having more fun with that than I've had with my PS2 in months.

Wow, it seems that Sony really doesn't want me to buy a PS3..

Revolution won't be high def.

Being unable to read Japaneese, all I can guess is that the comments in the above-linked IGN article are from the IGN writer.  Comments about IGN writers and mental retardation aside, I'd just like to point out one thing.  Just because you have a patent doesn't mean you have to use it.  Companies patent stuff all the time and don't use it, because if they hold the patent they get the royalties if anyone ELSE uses it.  It's just good business sense.

Also, as there are so many problems - that you all have pointed out - with using this in conjunction with a console, the execs and legal department would both have to have anyurisms before they put this in place.  The amount of bad press and potential for lawsuits just don't make this worth it. (The right to resell Music & Games has been upheld before, yes?  So anything that prevents that in the US is going to go against precident and put a very large burden of proof on SCE. )

Who fucking cares? Seriously, who the fuck cares? I'm so sick of HD being touted as a feature. It's not. I don't own an HDTV and don't plan to for another year or two. Why? Because there are too many fucking acronyms and buzzwords to learn, and they are too fucking expensive. Let some other sucker buy it, not me.

I care, and you probably will also in "another year or two" when you have an HDTV and Robot Jesus 4.0 Deluxe is released on all 3 consoles.  The Revolution's version won't cut the mustard.  Bad move on Nintendo's part.

Robot Jesus 4.0 won't be released on the Revolution. That's what Nintendo is trying to get across. They want games that are specific to the Revolution and its style of control. Not a dumb move at all. Let Sony and Microsoft battle it out with essentially the same system, Nintendo is going for something completely different. Good on them.

I don't care.  I have a HDTV.  Denon receiver, two big-ass amps, 5.1.  I have my Cube, Xbox and PS2 all connected via component video and optical sound (no optical on Cube).  However I am tired of looking at games whose only selling point is high resolution titties and explosions.  I will eventually get a 360 and a PS3, but the only console I plan to get at release is the Nintendo's.  I happen to agree with Miyamoto-san, and not just out of fanboi-ism, that the focus on graphics is diverting resources from making good games.  Sure, I wish it would have graphical bells and whistles, and it could very well be a marketing mistake... time will tell.  I sumbit that HD support won't matter if N gets its act together and fills its library with quality titles.  They have a lot of work to do and I am glad they aren't wasting their efforts by programming tit-jiggle or modeling camel toes.

/agree

I would like to point out that there is a difference between "Looks Like Robot Jesus 4.0" and "Plays Like Robot Jesus 4.0".  In that regard, I have high hopes of the Second Gameplay Coming on the Rev.

Amen!

Robot Jesus 3.0 (Resident Evil 4) was released on the Gamecube. They could do it.

Eternal Darkness could be Robot Cthulu....

Won't happen. No reason. Console won't be out in time, won't be enough to sell. Remember, to play games like that on the revolution, it's going to require an additional contoller peripheral.

 Resident Evil 5 is going to be 360 and then the PS3.

N stated that the nunchaku will ship with the base unit.  You should be able to play RE4 and Metroid Prime on the Rev using the shipping controller.  There is also the traditional-controller-shell addon, for those of you who like to rub the Dual-Shock 2 across your genitals.

If the N can "figure out" how to make aiming easier - aside from motion tracking (which WILL get tiring) - then I'm all for a donle. I just hope it's a mouse and keyboard dongle. But that's wishful thinking.

I do agree with you... but I am not going to buy the Rev so I can play FPS games.

I do, as someone who plays a lot of RPGs, I'm tired of huge menus with giant soft-edge fonts. I never want a character to have to be huge to be detailed again (see: Kingdom Hearts, where half your screen is normally covered by a body part - though that can be attributed by the camera as well). I'm tired of pretending HDTV's aren't necessary. They are. Too many genres hurt because of low resolution. Meters in racing games are too big, hell, UIs in general take up too much of the screen. With HDTV they can be smaller and clearer and still be easy to read - to anyone. Though Riddick and King Kong are showing us UIs aren't even necessary with a super clever art department. Ironically Call of Duty 2 has no life meter but the fucking UI takes up every corner of the screen. Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

Have fun playing your games in stretched wide screen.

Except you won't get it, because they'll have to support the lower resolution standard TV's. They'd be cutting their own throats if they didn't. Balls would be to tell us plebians without HD to go fuck ourselves off to the last generation console.

But Microsoft pretty much did that already with the "Ur X-Box shit will play on our system, maybe, possibly... nah, fuck you."

Fuck HD anyhow.  The only sets worth a damn are the CRT ones which have the problem of being heavier and more expensive.
Plasma and LCD mostly blow.  Joe Sixpack isn't gonna see enough change to buy it, and then have to pay MORE to see TV
shows in HD, even if he doesn't need to buy a reciever to go along with his 600-2000 dollar set.

Why do you think the HD date has been pushed back to around 2010?  The things are still too expensive, the technology
is still iffy, and the cost/benefit ratio isn't that great.

Besides, I don't see how people can think games on the current X Box look all that bad.  Or the Gamecube.
The Resident Evil remake STILL looks better than 90% of the stuff on a decent PC.  Hell, the Rogue Squadron games
on the Cube blow most stuff away.

And Nintendo Revolution is the only system I might get on day 1.

My wife works in the cable industry and I've had a chance to drink beer with some of the people that are working to get HD versions of programming up and running.  I can assure that it is well on it's way and most of the networks will be offering their content in HD much sooner than 2010 (serveral are coming online in 06 that I specifically know of).  I try not to darken the doorstep of Walmart very often but the two or three times I've been in there this past year, I've seen Joe Sixpacks hauling RPTVs and plasmas out to their dooleys and SUVs.  The price of the TVs are dropping rather dramatically.

Just for shits and giggles, and because I'm bored on this friday afternoon, I'd love for you to explain why "Plasma and LCD mostly blow".  Is it the price barrier for you that blows or the technology itself?

Most games on the XBox were high def enabled.  And the difference between non-high def and high-def is roughly equivalent to the difference of playing at 800x600 and 1280x1024.  Night and day for the reasons that Schild said.

Fantastic! We're only 6 years behind the original schedule for HD, then.  There were, what, two push-backs, until they finaly conceeded the point and made it 2010?  Even in 2010 you can bet there will be a significant portion of the populace that will be pissed then they non-HD signals are turned off and all of the sudden they can't watch televsion.

When I first started hearing about the 'HD revolution' back in 1998/9 I recall speaking with people who had no intention of buying a new TV until their current one bit-it.  Their reaction when I said they'd be completly screwed because they didn't have an HD reciever was not only disbelief, but bordering on anger that they'd be forced to upgrade anything. I'm not talking Joe Sixpack, either.  These were college-educated professionals.  I'm more apt to believe Pat Robertson will get an honorary doctorate in progressive cultural studies from Berkley than TV being all hi-def by 2010 at this point.

Anyway, as Haemish points-out, until HD is the 'standard' (or the developers just decide to give the non-HD crowd the old heave-ho)  lower rez is still going to have to be supported in the games.  That means the dev companies are either going to have to come up with 2 UIs or just go with the low-rez one.  Which do you think is going to happen?

Resident Evil Remake was one of the best games I've ever seen graphically. Truly amazing what a little cleverness can do. (I'm talking about the use of animated textures and such)

HD support is cool but for most people it won't matter. Just like progressive scan is cool but I'm not going to buy a game based on whether or not it has progressive scan. It's just a nice addition.

The old TV's will still work fine at that point, people will just need to purchase a relatively inexpensive converter box.  It's not going to be a big deal.

That would be "they can't watch Television."  Yes, I know they can buy converter boxes.  However, you have to do it for every tv in your home... and "reletivly inexpensive" is variable to each homeowner.  The info I found listed them at $300 or so apiece.  You have to purchase one for every TV.. in my household that's about $1,000.  Uh. No, not going to happen, and we make above the median national income, and are below the median house & car payments.

Now, prices are likely to drop as more people are forced to buy them, but it's still going to fuck over more folks than not.

I am sure most cable and satellite companies will provide converter boxes.

Yeah, they will rent them to ya, for a nice profit.

My father recently passed away and I have been going through the bills, since I have to.  I look at the phone bill and for a simple basic corded phone we have been paying 7.50 a month since 95 for a rented phone that might have cost 20 bucks TOPS.  You think these converter boxes aren't going to go for even greater consumer screwing?

Probably 20 dollars or more a month easy.  That's real fair.  And by fair I mean bullshit.

I would be extremely surprised if these companies provided them for free, comrade.

As an aside, anyone who's deciding on a new console solely - or even mostly - on the basis of HD support should be smacked with a rolled-up newspaper and have their nose rubbed in my PC's 1600x1200 display. Consoles have never been about fabulous graphics, and HD will only bring them up to par with the gaming PCs of the late 90's. Consoles are about simplicity for the end user (integrating with existing home AV setups, providing "insert disc and start playing" games, and a single compact interface device) and the game catalogue (you can't get Xenosaga on the PC).

I think Nintendo is making a reasonable decision. Segregating users into HD-or-not camps cuts at one of the core strengths of consoles.

It will be sad when we all buy Revolutions and are ultimately dissapointed.

If the Revolution plays SNES, NES and N64 games that you can download I won't be dissapointed even if the Rev itself never has a single game.

I mean I could spend a couple months just playing through the SNES and the 2 N64 Zeldas. Ninja Gaiden Trilogy, here I come!

I expect the Rev to have a few really cool games. That's enough for me because I don't own that many games for any system anyway. If you need to get 3 or 4 games a month it's probably not going to be the system for you though.

Also, as of 2001, roughly 30% of the US wasn't connected to cable or satellite TV. Source (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/recs/appliances/appliances.html)

While that's a good point, I'm less stoked about emulation than I otherwise would be if I hadn't been doing it on my Xbox for 4 years.

Now this makes absolutely no sense to me.. You don't still have your SNES or N64 in a cupboard somewhere? And if you don't, the consoles themselves are dirt cheap on the secondhand market, as are all the games you can eat.. backwards compatable/retrogaming and all is nice and all that, but if those games are your gaming sweet spot, you should be playing them right now instead of salivating over a future, expensive console's probably ability to play them..



This makes more sense, but, you know, Zelda 64 1 and 2 are already released for that other Nintendo console.. and customised to that specif controller pretty well, as well.

I don't have the room or inclination to have 7 systems hooked up to my TV. Sure, I could have an NES, SNES, N64, GC, PS2, XBox and Rev all sitting together, but I'd rather not. In addition there are a lot of games that I would like to play that I don't own anymore. Half of it is just convenience.

I find using emulators on the computer less than satisfying. Tearing issues with the graphics, resolution issues, etc.

Sure, but it depends on your reason for buying it.. If you're really jonesing to play the Zelda 64 games, then just hook up the 64 as a temorary measure and you can play them right now, not in 6 months or so when they release. I understand what you're saying about not owning some of them anymore, but it'll really be dependant on N's pricing schedule for those games on the Rev, whether they go for the "bulk buy" that we're seeing with the Midway/Capcom?Taito discs, of if they're going to charge a lot more for them individually..

If the latest rumors/statements about the Revolution are true I'm psyched about the machine that will finally let me legally own Earthbound, and I'm sure there's quite a few other great titles that never made it over to Europe that I haven't even heard about.

Everyone has their own 'sweet spot' that sales tools tickle.  This one happens to be mine -and a few others' as well. One thing to understand is this feature is not being aimed at anyone below the age of about 26.  You think most of the teens and young 20's give a rats ass about original Zelda, or even Majora's Mask?  "Gen X" is becoming the nostalgia market these days, and you're seeing more stuff aimed at us through our kids.

Yes, I sold/ gave away my old Nintendo, Playstation, and SNES and I never owned an N64. When you're married w/ 2 kids space becomes a premium and old consoles are less important than other things you want to keep around.  With this, I can play the old games I miss, and the ones I didn't get a chance to play all in one unit.  I don't have to have 6 consoles hooked-into my TV along with the VCR, Cable, and DVD player.

  Also, I get the ability through the purchase of a console I'm planning on purchasing anyway.  I don't have to spend the $60 to buy those 3 old units and some games, and use it somewhere else. Even at $3 a game for the old titles, that'd get me 20 games.. far more than I'd want to get or have the time to play-through.

The info you found was wrong.  When I say relatively inexpensive, I mean less than 2 quarter pounder with cheese value meals:


Billy Bob Strubeck in shit-water kentucky isn't going to have to live without his Jerry Springer and Dukes of Hazzard re-runs.

Most games on the xbox were progressive scan. Most games were 480p. And yes, it's a BIG difference. More like the difference between 640x480 and 1024x768.
Heh. That's humorous.

Can someone provide a link about this HD standard? The only standard being pushed that I was aware of is digital distribution, I don't remember anything about the resolution being a part of that. They want to kill analog cable, but requiring HD is silly when the sets are still 10x as expensive as SD sets. I call bullshit.

Creative googling got me the Full Article (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6276041.html?display=Breaking+News&referral=SUPP)

That's a subsidy so folks can buy the units that are ANTICIPATED to cost $50 by then. They don't say what happens if, "oh shit, the boxes didn't drop to $50 like we hoped." in the next 4 years. (Since the "hard date" is April 7, 2009)  Yes, the government is likely to make it available because they're pushing the DTV "revolution" not the consumer.  If they didn't, they'd all be finding new jobs when the switch was finally flipped.

 The whole thing is a clusterfuck, because nothing the government handles these days isn't.  "Digital" on a TV doesn't even mean "Digital-Ready" yet, and that means TVs being sold right now will be useless in 4 years.  Like I said, I have no confidence that things will work for everyone in 2009 or that the date won't be pushed and REALLY cause some problems. (Since, as you can see in the article, some folks are trying to move the date Forward.)

Why did I have digital cable channels on my crappy old analog tv 3 years ago before I bought the hd set? Are we just yelling for fun?

Fixed that for you. It's much more accurate my way.

My plans are still to just get a PS3 and Rev. Both will rack up a couple dozen good exclusive titles, while the 360 will probably have half of that. Plus, it's Microsoft. I always have an irrational hate for anything they release at first...Sometimes I succumb, sometimes I don't.

I'd call it more of a learned instinctual-reflex than irrational reaction.

Umm... you do realize that anyone who currently has cable or satellite service is 100% unaffected by this change right?  All cable and satellite boxes, that I'm aware of, have SD outputs on them.  The only one's potentially affected are those people currently recieving free analog programming over the airwaves.

Stray, you spelled "rational" wrong.

I already do, because I am usually too lazy to just hit the button on my remote that toggles 4:3/16:9.  However, since 16:9 != HD, I have some games that compensate for the stretch anyway, like some junk on the PS2.  Radiata Stories will do prog scan and 16:9, but I don't think the two are linked in any way.  In fact, some say they do widescreen but still produce ovals, like San Andreas' radar map.  Maybe I was doing it wrong.  When I switched to the 4:3, though, it looked like they took off the PanaFlex since I am accustomed to the fatness, so I just leave it wide all the time.  Not something I am going to fly into a face-beating rage over.

The irritating thing is that 16:9 wasn't enforced as a standard on the god-damned Xbox, leading to Knights of the Old Fatass.

In addition to the regular stretch, some TVs have a "justify" mode that scretches the center less and the sides more in an attempt to reduce "fat head" with varying results. 

I realise I'm in a different country, but not all of the cable boxes here have SD outputs on them. Mine doesn't, though they are starting to try to push Digital cable now.. Having said that, the US has a shitton more population that we do, so I can only assume that some cable boxes in the US don't have the SD outputs.

As a reply to Mersk's post above, I know we can get digital TV converter-set-top-boxes here, and they were going for AU$150-200 (US$110-150) or less last Christmas, so I can only assume that by the time they're pushed out the door en masse by being mandatory, that there will be absolutely tons of them out there as cheap as chips. Think cheap-ass chinese DVD players....

 

You cable box has a coax output though, right? 

Like I quoted way-back.. only about 70% of US households have Cable/Satellite TV.  I'm done with this conversation, however.

And just to :dead_horse: digital cable != high definition.

Way to confuse the public, industry. Actually, I have to admit it's kinda fun listening to Alliteration Electronics employees spew misinformation.

TV is in a fucking muddled mess right now. I'm an intelligent, fairly well-informed guy and I know just about fuckall to do with HDTV's. That's one of the reasons when I had to buy a new larger TV for my living room, I didn't bother spending the extra money on an HDTV. There's little in the way of standards, and every cocksucking cable or satellite company wants to bend me over the barrel just to bring me the HD programming. Seriously, as a DirecTV customer, if I want the HD package with DVR, I have to pay like 5 or 6 times more for the HD DVR box than the regular, PLUS I have to pay more for receiving HD. And I have to replace all of my current boxes as well.

Fuck you. No. Save that shit for the bleeding edge suckers. I'll prefer to be a happier sucker in 2 or 3 years when some of this shit has become more standard and I don't have to listen to ill-informed Asswipe Sales Guy #347 tell me what I NEED to buy, and how I need to pay the 2x extra surcharge for being on the crest of the wave. Lick my balls, beauty school dropout, my declining eyesight won't appreciate the difference that my wallet will feel.