f13.net

http://www.forbes.com/business/businesstech/newswire/2004/05/11/rtr1366976.html



I wonder how many preorders this will generate...

I wish I could get excited for this game, but the more I see the less I care.  All the monsters are leftover creatures from the creatures NOT cool enough to appear on the cover of some crappy 80's rock band.  I mean really, a skull with a little mechanical jetpack on it?  Come on.  They make me laugh my ass off, not wet my pants.

Why they felt the need to stupidly graft implants onto all the creatures in the game is beyond me.  What makes a demon with robotic legs more scary?  It is just a demon that now needs special parking priviledges.

Not going to bother upgrading for this one.  When I do upgrade, I will go back and see if I can grab a used copy cheaper.

I do hope the game does not suck.  I just have a real real bad feeling.  And it started with the 15 year old pimply angst ridden teen who did their art design.

Not sure I could care less at this point. There are so many fun FPS games on the market these days that buying a whole new rig just to play with the shiny seems like overkill (and a giant PITA to boot).

Meh.

I think I may get it just for the DM match.  My roomate and I were weened off of 4 player Quake 1 Lan play, which appears to be the basis of the MP.

Doom 3 just screams CHEEESY to me. Sure, nice shader usage, nice lighting. Style directly from my jr high school sketchbook.

Same with the vaunted quake netcode. It could play smooth as butter, but still be the archaic multiplayer id has always offered. The landscape has changed since then.

And survival horror? Id has never created a game I've thought had good single player, ever.

Survival horror only works if it is scary.  Doom 3 screenshots make me laugh more than cringe.

Maybe if the critter design, sound, and animation was done by the folks doing the Silent Hill series...

I can muster a small amount of interest in HL2. But doing so completely wipes out any potential remaining interest in other future FPSs.

The genre seems to be becoming about as innovative and interesting as that of RTSs.

Does D3 have any features I should be interested in?

No enthusiasm for Doom 3.  I am, however, very interested in HL2 and Stalker.  Stalker looks to be completely unique and as for HL2, we've all seen the videos; that'll be bought without even reading a review.

To be truthful, the last game I actually enjoyed by ID was Doom 2.  The Quake games have done nothing for me, and I just can't give a damn about boring ass deathmatch games like Quake and Unreal Tournament.  If I want multiplayer goodness I'll go with Battlefield 1942 and it's mods, and even then I only play that every once in a while.

I am not very excited about this game either.  I just recently reinstalled doom 2 and found that, despite my extra years of game playing, I still can't beat that damned game without cheating.  I don't like games like that and I never will like games like that.  I will stick with Delta Force if I want to play a FPS.

Call me crazy but I was actually excited after playing that old Doom 3 Alpha leak. It had a jump-in-your-seat factor, that I haven't seen in a game in a while. One of my favorite parts in it, there is a baddy waiting in a crevice for you, and if you look into the window you can see reflection of him, was quite cool.

The way the mobs jump at you knocking you around is quite ruthless and a nice addition. I say even if ID software should be renamed Engines'r'us, don't count Doom 3 out of being a good game just yet.

----

Also, even in that unoptimized Alpha test I was able to crank settings and hold decent-good framerates on this rig:

P 4 2.2  (overclocked to 2.6)
2x512mb Dual Channel PC3200 RAM
9800 Pro

I played the alpha which ran like shit for me, and then later something that was called a beta that ran a LITTLE better, but still like shit, and the gameplay just didn't interest me.

My problem is not that I have a cutting edge system, I don't.  But I can run farcry just peachy keen and doom3 runs like shit.  There is no excuse for that.  No matter what doom 3 is doing, it does not LOOK that much better than farcry and is certainly not rendering huge expanses of terrain.

Doom 3 engine just feels sick and bloated.  Maybe the final release will be all fixed up but I have serious doubts that the horsepower needed to run it will be worth the tiny amount of extra shiny.

HL 2 is the game i'm really looking forward to seeing...but I will buy Doom 3. I think ragging on it is the 'in' thing to do around here :) Regardless, I hear where you all are coming from...some of the screenies look ridiculous (skull thing in particular) but I'm an old Doom fan so I say bring it on!

"In" thing or not, I've always had the same opinion I posted above about id. I can still remember the day I first saw Wolf3D and thought about how many ways it was a step backwards in gaming, because for many years a LOT was sacrificed on the 3D altar. Doom 1/2 simply couldn't hold a candle to Duke3D, and really, neither could any id game if only taken on single player basis, since they just blow at making single player games.

The nod to id in Halo (the Flood) is the point where I really started to dislike it.

Hey, I was contrarian long before it was cool :P While everyone was lauding Wolf3D and Doom I was jamming out on Ultima Underworld...

I rag on Doom3 because it looks boring as shit. It's a goddamn tech demo for an engine license. I'm sure the games made WITH the Doom3 license by someone other than Id could be good. But the one-dimensional gameplay of Doom3, coupled with immature, junior-high graphic design does nothing for me. The guys at Valve have proven they can create a more interesting single-player experience, it just takes them six years to do so.

Sheesh, judging by the commentary, boy-oh-boy is there a lot of fps newbs in this thread =p

Would someone kindly provide me with an example of "mature" graphics design (and don't none of you say HL2. That game has no design whatsoever)?

And bitching about D3's boring gameplay? come on, the game isn't even out yet..

You can find mature graphics design all over the fucking place.  Max Payne, BG&E, Windwaker, and other games that were seeminly designed by people that realize style is something more than sticking spider legs on a fucking upside down human head.

Incase you're wonding what people are bitching about take a gander at this (http://www.planetdoom.com/images/image.asp?screenshots/official/9l.jpg) and  this  (http://www.planetdoom.com/images/image.asp?screenshots/official/10l.jpg)and  this (http://www.planetdoom.com/images/image.asp?screenshots/official/14l.jpg).  I mean common, those look like something out of some high school stoner goth's  sketch book.

As for how it plays? Who the fuck really knows.  I just don't think it will be able to do what it seemily wants to: scare me.  I could be suprised though, and I'd welcome it.  (Althought I seriously doubt my machine will run this beast)

HEY! I was never a goth.

Injecting some dislike of Safari browser just now, as it wasn't handling those planetcrap pages then crashed after I had typed out a reply :P Well, equal amounts dislike for planetcrap, too. Click here to continue on to fucking off, planetcrap/ign/etc.

This is why making judgements with a paucity of facts is stupid.

But making judgements based on a long product line over a decade or so is a little more intelligent. The gameplay of id's products hasn't changed much since Doom (I'd say Wolf3D, but Doom did usher in the multplayer goodness), and I have no reason to think it will now. I may be wrong, but I'd wager I'm right.

Let's see... good mature graphic design in an FPS?

Ummm, Half-Life 1, Unreal, Unreal Tournament (in all flavors), Tribes, Nosferatu, Duke Nukem 3d, Max Payne, hell COUNTER-STRIKE for Christ's sake.

The design on all of these were consistent, and none of them reminded me of stuff a burned out wanna-be angsty goth in junior high might draw on his book covers. I've shit out better design than the monsters in Doom 3. They look silly. Very, very silly. Look at the face-huggers in HL1 and compare them to the Doom 3 spider with a jetpack.

I've played most of the big FPS's since Wolf3d came out. I'd hardly call myself an FPS newb.

Um... How about Deus Ex and System Shock.  Great design and great gameplay.

I've seen nothing that would indicate that Doom 3 is offering anything beyond collect three keys, kill bad guys, and exit the level gameplay.  Been there, done that, don't feel the need to buy a $400 video card to do it again.

 K, i guess i should not have been a dumbarse and actually said "graphics design in the same genre". You know, scary shooty, futuristic type stuff.

Now yes i realise that people brought SS2 and Deus Ex up but i'm pretty sure those two fall into the rpg category much more than fps.
So yea, ok, i agree.. the heads with spider legs do look stupid, but i figure that they'll spend most of their time on the walls and/or ceiling so i guess the design makes sense.

Head-crabs in HL? Please..
I mean come on, that game's final boss was a giant testicle on four legs.

Haemish, what i don't understand (and please bear with me here), is this: i started reading WT.org because i could get valuable, intellegent input into  the world of mmorpgs. This was because the posters (for the most part) were experienced players and/or industry members who knew what they were talking about. As opposed to reading, say, the b/.net boards.

But in this case, you are critisizing (and completely disregarding) what i'm pretty sure will be a great game, on the basis or ARTISTIC TALENT? I mean.. come the fuck on.. -You'v- shat out better monster design? Yea, 'cause you know, you are rolling in the money like iD isn't.


As far as the screenshots go.. ok, the first one is the Lost Souls.. they were in Doom, Doom 2 and they will be in Doom 3. So what, nothing has changed. I mean, what do you expect from a flying skull that flies around and bites you till you make it explode?

And the zombie sargeant (sp?)? Ok.. maybe i'm stupid.. someone explain to me what's wrong with it.. ? Yea he looks kinda like Shwartznegger gone wrong, but meh, it's not like you are going to stand there admiring his sixpack. In all probability you will be trying to keep him from tearing your face off with his teeth.


What i'm trying to say is.. people are reading too much into this game. Like it's going to be some intellectual Dantesque trip through the far recesses of the human mind.

It's not supposed to be Silent Hill, or Resident Evil whatever, it's Doom. You kill shit, and try to not get eaten in the process. There is very little in the way of suspense, or vast dramatic scenes.
It's not introducing anything new? Yea, neither did Far Cry, neither did Duke 3D (the main selling point of which, as well as the "mature graphics design" were based on two of the lowest common denominators in human society: cops are pigs and women = sex), and neither have any fps that have come out since then. And believe you me, neither will HL2.

What i'm thinking is, your (collective) hatred of the lack of intellegence, creativity, and story-driven interaction in mmorpgs (where it is sorely needed) is carrying over into a genre where it isn't required for an enjoyable experience.

I don't play Counter-Strike because i care about the fate of the ancient aztec ruins on de_aztec. I play it so that i can improve my skills and lol0wn the newbs. Hence my liking of what i see in Doom 3; an immersive world that will test my skills.

 - Meg

p.s.
not spellchecked

"It's not supposed to be Silent Hill, or Resident Evil whatever, it's Doom. You kill shit, and try to not get eaten in the process. There is very little in the way of suspense, or vast dramatic scenes."

That's not what Id is saying!

Maybe people have had enough of "kill shit" gameplay. How many FPS games have there been over the past few years? Most of them are endless variations on a theme, either "kill shit" or "enact some boring historical scenario."

It's not like this is a fresh blast from the past, like the rejuvenation of a genre that has been dead for a while. It's another FPS. It may be good, but it's hard to get excited about it.

Id is concentrating a lot on the single-player experience, but their single-player has never been that great, and it will be competing with HL2 which one would think would offer much better single-player.

FPS games really have not changed much in ten years. IMO it's hard to get excited about any of them.

Which is why it will probably be derivative crap.

I love it when someone makes my point for me.

The gameplay will be Doom. Again. For the third time.

Since the gameplay won't be new, we can hope the graphics will be. Hmm, other than the shiney pixel shaders stuff, nope, not much new there either. And what is new sucks monkey nuts.

I imagine the mods, multiplayer and games using the license will be more interesting than this bowel movement of a tech demo that id will release to the hordes of screaming id fanbois who think Romero and Carmack should kiss and make up or something.

Oh, please. I didn't play Deus Ex, I admit, but if System Shock 2 is an RPG then you can make a case for pretty much any game short of Pac-Man being an RPG as well. That thing was FPS to the damned bone.

I have confidence in ID.

Also, Half-life 2. Meh, didn't like the first one, and not the sequel is being delayed time and time again, and this is a company that has release games based on the q2 engine. Render me unimpressed.

Well, doom is getting delayed time and time again as well.  I remember reading an interview with one of carmack's flunkies implying the game would be OUT by LAST year's E3 that was about jan. - feb. last year.

Both games are WAY late by expectations.  Same with Halo 2.  HL2 is the only one that gave an official release date, but D3 has been guilty of hyping how close it is since well over a year ago.

FarCrytality!

Two things. First, Don't ever post a garbled mess like that again.
Second, if you make a note of being too lazy to placate the editorial part of my brain, I'll find where you live and beat you to death with an unabridged dictionary.

Your fanboi is starting to stink. Try letting it air out by actually thinking about what you're defending.

If we look at Doom, Doom 2, and the Quake series, there's really very little variance between them. Assuming Doom 3 is going to do anything revolutionary is a bit naive, which is basically what's being said. All you're trying to tell everyone is Friday the 13th part 8 is REALLY going to be something special, despite the fact the other six sequels were just like the first movie, only with better effects. People who want novelty aren't going to bother. Fans of the series will love it. Easy as that.

To continue the Friday the 13th analogy, we should talk quality. Those movies were crap. They were dull, unimaginative crap, but they were entertaining. Doom was entertaining, but I wasn't exacatly glued to my seat for any of it. In fact, my eight-year-old brain was just really pissed about having to find keys when a rocket launcher should be able to blow apart metal doors. Doom 3 will suck in the same fashion, but it'll probably still have the same entertainment value as the previous two. Most of the people around here have become accustomed to a bit more, even out of FPS's. System Shock 2 (just because it has a skill system doesn't mean you're not SHOOTING THINGS IN THE FIRST PERSON, douche) along with Max Payne pretty much raised the bar for singleplayer, and the Half-Life and BF1942 mods pretty much made everyone giggle violently at the Q3 engine.

Call me a newbie if you want, but I don't think I'm alone in not wanting to bother with Doom 3 (or HL2) until a few mods usurp the CS and TFC scene.

Damn Joe just made me feel old. When I was 8 I was playing Adventure (aka Zork on mainframe aka Colossal Cave)...fetch my damn walker!

Anyway, whether it's a good dame or not, id's certainly ready to bleed their fanbois. Bring your piggy bank, Doom3 is listed at $55 on ebgames.com.

linky (http://ebgames.com/ebx/product/223988.asp)

edit: this line is kinda funny, though:

Dear angry manchild,




You know what? Fuck you. Nyah nyah boo-boo!



Allright, now that we'v settled it like real adults:

Dude, in your haste to show some of that trademark haet you missed the point entirely. I don't particularly care now if the game is good or bad. Yes, i have it on pre order, and if i like it i will keep it. If i don't, i will return it and get my money back. No harm done.

What i was saying, is that totally tearing a game apart because you did not like it's visual/artistic presentation it stupid at best. Furthermore, citing that the predecessors were "bland" is stupid. Why are you playing fps in the first place? Especially single-player ones. I sure as hell don't play them for a good story. I read books for that kind of thing.

Yea, there isn't much variance between D, D2, the Quake series, etc.. But what are the key, revolutionary differences between System Shock, and SS2? Deus Ex and DE2 (apart from the second one sucking)? NOLF/NOLF2, the Unreal series and just about every single fps game made EVER? Do i even need to mention the vaunted Battlefield shittrain?

Just because iD has made more similar games than most companies doesen't mean they are somehow the only ones making boring (boring being a veeery relative term in this case) games. What is your logic here?
Because the only point i can see you making is that "Doom 3 will be crap based on past evidence". Ok, and the sky is blue. However like Rodent said, i have faith in iD. Or rather, i have more faith in them than any OTHER fps developer.


You claim lack of innovation, lack of fresh gameplay blah, blah, blah.. Well what would you suggest?
Yes, this is a serious question.
What feature(s) would you as a designer of the next innovative fps put in, to revolutionise gameplay?

Also,



Sooo.. what does that make Morrowind? And could you elaborate on the "made everyone giggle" thing?

 - Meg

Megrim, you just DON'T GET IT.

Compared to EVERY single FPS on the market, Doom is the most base of them all. It is literally, find item, shoot, find item, shoot, and then kill a boss. The levels were never inspired, the weapons are just sorta meh, and the bad guys from hell - well, it's been done 1,000x since Doom 2 and it does NOT need to be done again.

iD should have made a new game, with a new license (or their own original concept) and not gone back to the Doom name. iD is legendary and can afford to branch out, and yes, it's ok to have faith in iD. But, comeon - it takes a real team, of jackasses to not make anything as involving as a Doom game. From what they've said they haven't brought anything new to the table in this go'round, and I don't suspect they will.

Doom 3 will most likely be rehashed Doom with really purty graphics and be a memory WHORE. Other than that? Nada.

The question isn't "why shouldn't I play it?" The question is "why should I play it?" So why don't you tell us why we should play it - your faith in iD to make a good FPS is not a reason. Guns that shoot spiders is a reason.

One last thing:



You've done this a couple times. "'v" IS NOT THE WAY TO FINISH A CONTRACTION, ASSHOLE. There's a goddamn 'e' after it. Joe is absolutely right though, learn how to spell, alright? Good.

EDIT: BBCode is hard.

Dammit, i hate to SB a little here but,



Don't you think it's a little unfair (i know what you mean, bear with me, i'll get to it) to compare Doom with all the other fps currently on the market? Since everything has basically been a rehash of the game. Down to the (now) meh weapons (oh come on, the BFG) and the uninspired level design.
Although i'll have to run the risk of having "fanboi" flung in my face by Joe again, and claim that Doom2 had some of the best fucking levels ever made, in two ways. Some were just plain brutal (and in all honesty i've yet to play a game where the designers have dared to put the player under so much pressure), and some were really original designs in terms of how they used what they could work with.

But, since we are talking about Doom3 and how it compares to what is currently on the market, i have a question:

My impression (and please feel free to call me misguided) is that iD have actually kept a pretty tight wrap on the information avalable on the game. They have demo'ed some things, whored their "shiny" graphics engine and released screenies of some of the old monsters (and those unfortunate spiders), but i've not seen any solid indication of how the game is actually going to play. By this i mean some of the most basic things, like the pacing, ammo/item loads, difference between difficulty levels, roughly how many levels we should expect, etc, etc..
Sure, them not saying anything about any new features isn't indicative of them actually having anything new, but it certainly does not indicate the opposite.

Have i missed all this somewhere along the way? Where is all this highly opinionated hatred coming from. I mean shit, what games do you like?




I am not telling you anything. I'm asking that you don't jade yourself into a dark little corner. Seriously, go d/l Doom2 from anywhere and play it through again (preferably on the hardest setting). Then come back and tell me that it's not fun.

For me, personally, it has that certain bit of magic that brings me back to XCom, Starcraft, Counterstrike & Diablo. If it does not mean anything to you then so be it.
But tell me you know more about what Doom3 will be like than anyone else, and i'll believe you. And not that you can form a hypothesis and parade it as truth.



Furthermore, ease off on the grammar nazi bullshit. We've all been there, done that. And not a single one of us is an Oxford erudite.

 - Meg

No one's giving you shit for screwing up on little-known grammatical rules (like or vs. nor). They're giving you shit for fucking up contractions. This is the sort of thing you learn how to use in third grade, for god's sake. If English weren't your first language, that'd be fine, but somehow I seriously doubt that this is the case. Just put some fucking effort into your typing and you'll look considerably more intelligent.

Kairos, your avatar makes that entire post so much funnier.

So, yeah, let's throw out everything we've learned in the past and believe in a company that's shown a trend going back over a decade is suddenly going to release something entirely different, with no evidence either way. Historical trends > no evidence, thus the position of everyone else in this thread but you.

What was it about Quake that made it so drastically different than Doom 2, iD's previous game?

Hmmmm, wasn't the weapons, they were mostly the same as Doom2. Hmmm, wasn't the story, since Quake didn't have a story. It was the fact that the game used polygons instead of sprites, making the environment a "true" 3d system. That's it, in a nutshell, and that is a technological accomplishment. The basic gameplay didn't change all that much. That's one of the reasons I really didn't give a shit about Quake when it came out. I'd played Doom 1 a lot, seen Doom 2 and the Quake demo did nothing for me. The other thing it offered was decent netcode, but since I didn't have a good Net connection at the time, I never bothered with it.

Skip ahead to Quake 3. Goddamn, this looks like the same game, only with much more polygons, shinier graphics, etc. Same fucking guns. Same fucking gameplay, only there wasn't any single-player to speak of. The multiplayer was fun, fast-paced and extremely limited.

There has been no innovation come out of id in terms of new gameplay, new game types or anything but engine and netcode work since Doom 1. It's all been technological accomplishments. Those are good, the industry needs them. But as a consumer, I don't want to buy a tech demo, I want to buy a game. A new game. Doom 3 does not look like a new game, it looks like an old game with a shinier wrapper.

FPS's can do a lot more than the Doom formula promises. Look at Unreal Tournament (any version) and its weapons. They are different. There are no analogues in the Doom-i-verse or Quake-i-verse to the bio-sludge gun, at least not in the gameplay id has released. It's a subtle weapon that most people don't know how to use (me included). But it can certainly change gameplay. Hell, take Counterstrike, itself a modificiation of a modification of a Quake engine. There is no analogue to the type of gameplay that the weapons buying system provides. Deus Ex took the idea of FPS, and grafted skills, a deep story and sneaker play to the whole forumla. Thief took the FPS and went an entirely different direction.

And id released pretty tech demos.

It was the fact that Trent Reznor created the soundtrack.

ID have been pretty innovative, the fact that people still play their games in vast numbers, the fact that so many dev houses use their engines and even to some extent rip their gameplay from time to time support the claim that ID has always been on the edge when it comes to FPS games.

Saying games like Doom II, Quake and Quake 3 brought nothing new is like saying the RPG scene saw nothing new with the comming of aD&D.

Doom III may or may not bring something new to the market, but ID's previous accomplishments should make anyone who enjoys FPS games atleast consider it.

And lastly, Doom III delayed? Far as I can remember ID have never set a date for it's release, ID being right up there with 3Drealms when it comes to using the "when it's done" slogan.

Doom III had better off me SOMETHING that UT2k4 doesn't offer me. It could start with a blowjob treat in the box.

Singleplayer campaign?

I didn't say they brought NOTHING new to the table. I clearly stated they brought a lot of technological innovations in 3d rendering, netcode, etc.

But the GAMEPLAY, which is what matters to me, hasn't changed at all, at least not by id's hands. They build great engines that people put good gameplay into; see Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Soldier of Fortune, Half-Life, Counter-Strike, etc. for proof.

I'm not a game developer, so what they do in the engine doesn't make me want to buy Doom 3. It makes me want to play the game's using that licensed engine.

And my Quake cd sits in my music collection, where it's been since my LAN group broke up years ago. For a while it was my 'music to make love to'. It's wicked good for that imo.

That brings a whole new meaning to the word "nailgun."

For me, the most memorable thing about Quake compared to Doom 2 was the complete abandonment of Co-op mode. Damn I hated that. The hacked in Co-op mode someone made didn't really cut it.

I loved Doom 2 mainly because a buddy and I spent hours nightly playing through it on co-op. Was some of the most fun I'd had in a game back then. I found the abandonment of co-op a big disappointment, and it set a trend that persists to this day, as most games completely ignore that style of play.

 .. Which is a pretty original weapon, you've got to admit.

Carpenters would disagree.

In a video game you tool! (hur-hur oh lolz)

Hell, if all you want is Doom but prettier, go download Jdoom and the other Doomsday project patches.  

If you want OOH SCARY with system abusing pixel shaders, just download Tenebrae for Quake.  And watch an 8 year old or so game run as slow on a kickass system today as it did on the average home computer in 96, only vastly prettier and creepier.

That's it.  Doom 3 really isn't anything new.  Its the same game we had for years.

And if I need pretty and quasi scary, my currently 100 dollar Gamecube has Resident Evil and Resident Evil Zero for under 20 bucks.  Which is MUCH cheaper than a top of the line videocard, something Doom 3 is all but certain to need, given how the Tenebrae mod for Quake makes my Athlon 64 3200 with a gig of ram and a 9600 256 meg Radeon cry in pain..

Ooo..someone brought up the GC!

ETERNAL DARKNESS!

THE TUB SCENE. God, I nearly crapped myself the first time I saw that.  That game is way more fun if you let yourself stay insane most of the time.

Not really. It's just an assault rifle, except it "OOOOHHH FIRES NAILS! HARDCORE!1!@!" I don't remember it having any kind of special properties that altered gameplay other than "Shoot really really fast at whatever is in front of you." Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Unreal brought in "alt fire" which could and did significantly alter the way you use the weapons. Some alt fire was just faster firing, but some, like the sludge gun, required a completely different mindset to use effectively.

The 'stake-gun' in Painkiller is pretty damned cool. And it has an actual response that the nailgun should have had. Too bad ragdoll physics didn't really exist back then.

Ah yes indeed, one of the more fun weapons in Nobody Lives Forever 2 was the crossbow that actully pinned opponents to the wall.    The crossbow in Resident Evil was fun for the same reason versus crows.   Hmm, I think there may have been a weapon that did that in Devil May Cry 1 and/or 2.

BTW, Thief: Deadly Shadows pulled an 80% rating on Gamespy, though they did cite lots of oddities with the graphic presentation and how levels are divided.

I jammed NOLF2 in between a couple other games, I was pretty rushed playing through it. My memory was that it had great potential, but was stymied by attempting to outdo the original. The plane level in the original was an all-time classic (well, the 'end' of the plane level, heh), but fighting femal ninjas in a trailer in a tornado was just...I dunno, kinda reaching imo. But the engine and weapons and all were cool beans, I had a lot of fun in the level after you scuba with that xbow...

Hmmm. Gamespy. They gave SWG a 60% when it should have gotten a 7%. I guess a margin of error of 53% isn't that bad on a corporate gaming site.

Gamespy is to honest reviews what Bill Clinton was to faithful husbands.

Bill Clinton doesn't play role-playing games to be a politician.

....

Why does that wookie live on Endor?

THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

YOU MUST ACQUIT.

The Chewbacca defense.  Brilliant.

I love the Chewbacca defense. That's a core reason of why I dislike RotJ. I almost crapped my pants when they used it on South Park.