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Title: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Evangolis on October 19, 2005, 11:31:18 AM Okay, here are a few links:
I first saw this at Lum's (http://www.brokentoys.org/?p=6876) Terra Nova story pre-rulings (http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2005/01/korean_consumer.html) Terra Nova note on actual rulings (http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2005/10/readvent_of_the.html#more) (Quoted below - note that there probably are translation issues, as some points don't seem to make sense.) Quote today, after a year-long investigation focused on NCsoft, Nexon, Webzen, Gravity, Actoz and a half-dozen other game companies, the commission published its findings based on the Adhesion Contract Act, and they are sweeping: of twelve tos/coc clauses examined, eight were declared legally void. As a result, the companies may no longer 1) permamently suspend or seize accounts of players caught engaging in Real-Money Trade for the first time; 2) refuse compensation of game time lost to service outages, even if the company is at fault, for losses of up to 4 hours; 3) place the burden of proof (e.g., of excessive lag) on players; 4) suspend players' accounts for game-planning or operational needs; 5) terminate contracts for players' trivial breaches without prior notice; 6) automatically regard a parents' payment of subscription fees as legal consent for their children to play; 7) disclose at will their logs of chats between players; or 8 ) give GMs judge dredd-like all-inclusive powers. companies have 60 days to rewrite their tos/coc documents to reflect these changes. clauses spared the ftc's axe may remain, permitting companies to continue 1) forbidding RMT (in the interests of protecting companies' copyrighted work and defending against cybercrime); 2) exempting themselves from damages in the event of force majeure; 3) exempting themselves when their service is offered free of charge; and 4) refusing to intervene in disputes between players, at their discretion. Psychochild has some thoughts (http://blog.psychochild.org/?p=89) I, on the other hand, am short of thoughts, for three reasons. One, the translations make it hard for me to fully figure this. (Rereading, I think it is only #2 that has a translation error, I think that should be 'losses over 4 hours, but maybe not.) Two, it is too big. The possible permutations exceed my grasp. Three, consequent to one and two, I think this issue will be revisited. Still, a pretty dramatic change in one of the major MMO markets. However, it's impact may be diluted, since I'm sure that game companies are as able at rules-lawyering as game players. Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Pococurante on October 19, 2005, 11:54:50 AM /shrug
It confirms what has been known in the software world for a long time - just because a company wants reality to work a certain way does not actually deprive consumers of basic rights enjoyed everywhere else in the business world. Up until very recently the MOG industry was small enough that companies got away with such nonsense - the average customer either didn't care or lacked resources. Now the average customer does care and does have resources - our little industry is all grown up. Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Mesozoic on October 19, 2005, 12:01:26 PM I wonder what happens if a Korean player jumps on an American server and then gets banned for something.
Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Mesozoic on October 19, 2005, 12:08:38 PM /shrug It confirms what has been known in the software world for a long time - just because a company wants reality to work a certain way does not actually deprive consumers of basic rights enjoyed everywhere else in the business world. The difference being, of course, that most companies do not create their own "realities" from scratch, spending millions in the process of doing so. This is like someone paying money to come into your home, and then claiming that they have the right to scream at the top of their lungs and throw furniture at other people. Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Evangolis on October 19, 2005, 12:21:17 PM I wonder what happens if a Korean player jumps on an American server and then gets banned for something. I expect that US law would probably apply. Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Sky on October 19, 2005, 12:25:43 PM Quote The difference being, of course, that most companies do not create their own "realities" from scratch, spending millions in the process of doing so. I disagree. (http://www.halliburton.com/)Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: HaemishM on October 19, 2005, 12:30:47 PM Yep, Koreans really are batshit insane.
Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Roac on October 19, 2005, 12:48:11 PM None of these points really make much sense, or are so imprecise as to lack meaning. Number 7 is the only one that's clear, and it makes sense. As to the rest, I'll wait until there's more info.
Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Pococurante on October 19, 2005, 01:15:00 PM Quote Reading that list makes me consider getting involved in a completely different creative industry. /shrug We'll miss you. I've read Brian's blog and I think he's overreacting. Firstly the only point he's addressing is (7) which is easily mitigated using the exact same policies he states his company already uses. Yes CS is expensive. Pay for it and one has a product with staying power. It's pointless to spend millions on development and cheap out on the continuance expenses. Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Stephen Zepp on October 19, 2005, 04:24:53 PM Quote Reading that list makes me consider getting involved in a completely different creative industry. /shrug We'll miss you. I've read Brian's blog and I think he's overreacting. Firstly the only point he's addressing is (7) which is easily mitigated using the exact same policies he states his company already uses. Yes CS is expensive. Pay for it and one has a product with staying power. It's pointless to spend millions on development and cheap out on the continuance expenses. I personally expect that in the US at least, virtual worlds like this will become a legal fiction parallel to the concept of private clubs. You are paying for the value of being a "member" of a club, and as long as you follow the rules of that club you will remain a member. However, violate the charter rules of your membership, and it can (will) be terminated. You may even legally claim (and receive) a refund for the original software product--that I'm not sure on. Might have to calculate depreciation, and/or compare to a standard of "average playable time" (another legal fiction that will need to be defined I guess), but I don't see the ability to sue for refund on subscription fees---if you violate a national private club's membership charter, you don't get back all the years worth of dues you paid. Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Evangolis on October 19, 2005, 09:51:07 PM Thing is, America is not the largest MMO market. If Asia ever develops a coherent set of rules, it may make the most sense to make games for the largest markets, and leave the niche markets to older games.
Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: schild on October 19, 2005, 09:53:37 PM #3 is too ridiculous for words. Period.
Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Simond on October 20, 2005, 05:04:23 AM I wonder what happens if a Korean player jumps on an American server and then gets banned for something. I expect that US law would probably apply. Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Evangolis on October 20, 2005, 05:51:42 AM Or, see my later post, vice versa. Gotta follow the big money, after all.
Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: Simond on October 20, 2005, 08:08:28 AM Nobody said anything about cancelling korean subs - it's just that they'll be playing on american servers owned by an US-based country. :)
Title: Re: Korea Rewrites MMOG EULAs Post by: HaemishM on October 20, 2005, 08:15:30 AM Nobody said anything about cancelling korean subs - it's just that they'll be playing on american servers owned by an US-based country. :) Or an island nation like the Caymans where none of this shit applies. |