f13.net

http://teamninja.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3144194

Choice quote:

He's probably one of four people in the industry that can get away with saying that.

Ninja Gaiden was near perfect on all levels. And the graphics still really haven't been beaten, though God of War would have looked amazing on an Xbox. Same with Genji for that matter.

Lol...Did Namco touch him in a bad place or somethin'?

Yes he hates Tekken. Probably because Tekken 2 is better than any DOA game and it's waht 8 years old or so now?

It does seem like the head of Namco or the creator of Tekken raped him or something. Tecmo was good when they made Ninja Gaiden and Tecmo Bowl for NES. Now they are the ultimate expression of glitz over gameplay. DOA is a terrible fighting game, Ninja Gaiden is repetitive and boring, and DOA: Beach Volleyball - is not just beach volleyball, but BAD beach volleyball.

It makes me sad, because Ninja Gaiden and Tecmo Bowl were 2 of my favorite games. Ninja Gaiden trilogy for the SNES (collection of 3 NES games) owns anything Tecmo has made in the past 10 years by a longshot.

I like how they list Square-Enix as the developer of Dragon Warrior 2. First they merged, then they developed a time machine, then they travelled back in time to make DW2 apparently...

Sorry, he's still a shallow asshole for saying that.

Whoa, I'll let the smackdown on DOA pass (more of an SC fan myself, so fuck DOA and Tekken both  :-P), but Ninja Gaiden rocks. I didn't find it repetitive or boring at all. Hard maybe, but I never once found that I could either relax in a fight or depend on the same moves all the time (especially with bosses). It kept me involved, and the difficulty was more challenging that most games of it's type. Not much more I can ask for really...

What are you? 6? Seriously man, he made DOA and the current Ninja Gaiden. His middle name is eye-candy.

The current Ninja Gaiden puts the NES ones to shame.  I remember loving them a LOT back then. Nowhere near as much as the current one though, despite how difficult it can get.

He made DoA. Ok. I thought the game was overwhelmingly mediocre. It looked nice, but the gameplay was....meh.

I saw Ninja Gaiden. It was pretty.

Being pretty doesn't matter. Think about it. We go back from time to time and play games that look like absolute ass by today's standards. We don't play games with shitty  shit shit gameplay.

Which is why graphics are not the only consideration in a game (obviously). Maybe if the devs thought about this, DoA wouldn't be a game of countercountercountercountercountercounter.

Granted, when I play SC2 with my friends, sometimes we'll just GI eachother for about a minute. Fortunately, the actual gameplay is better.

I never played Ninja Gaidan, but Tecmo Bowl was so much fun.  I usually played the Chicago Bears, and had to swear to my friends that I wouldn't use "the pass".  I liked their plays and players so much on that game that I'd remove one play from my book (the unbeatable one) and still usually win.  The other team I'd play, just to change things up, was the New York Giants, because they had the dude who could regularly block kicks and punts, and they had a kickass defense.

Yes, Tecmo Bowl was the shit...

But...Damnit Strazos:


The point is: He can say what he said because Ninja Gaiden is MORE than pretty. He can say what he said because he can do the other shit too. AND make a game look good. He wasn't saying it just because that's all he cares about. He said it because that's what sells. Also, if you actually played Ninja Gaiden, instead of just commented on it, then you'd know that he's just fucking with you (but at the same time, offering a little kernel of truth about the market in there as well).

Wow.  You mean I played Dragon Warrior 2 over 3 years before 1up said it was released in the US?  WOAH.

As to the developer's comments?  Fuck him.  Overly hard but pretty action games don't impress me.

PS: Tecmo Bowl sucked shit.  ALL OF THEM.

I don't get it.

He said "Graphics are the whole point."  Then in the next sentence he says

Which means, in his mind, Graphics and Gameplay are all that matters. And having played all of his stuff, I believe him. He has no story to speak of in his games. Ninja Gaiden had figments of a story. The thought processes that happen before you actually create a story.

I don't care if it's true or not. It's simply the wrong attitude to have. Games are not meant to just be looked at, but also played.

And the reason that I can only comment about what I saw of Ng gameplay and screenshots is that I had/have no actual desire to play the game. Just because I didn't actually play NG doesn't discount my opinion of the developer's comment.

Actually, in this case, it does. It's exactly what it does. Your opinion means nothing if you haven't played Ninja Gaiden.

It's easy to give give lipservice to Play > Graphics.  And yet Graphics sell.  Please when to indicate sales << reality.

Even Psychochild finally admitted paying the mortgage eclipsed Aryan blood purity when it comes to filling customer expectations.

Any shop believing otherwise deserves to be relegated to the virtual equivalent of handcarving Model A wheel spokes.  Oh sure there's a market, but why the hell would I care unless I put a premium on archaic skills.  And can live on four figures per year.

And you seem to have an epiletic orgasm over everything Team Ninja does. Great, you're a fanboi. I was talking about the guy's Comment. I really don't give a damn what Ninja Gaiden was like. 

Some game may make great sales purely off of "teh shiny," while games with awesome gameplay and story get passed by because they don't use trilinear texture effects and 12 pass bump mapping? Great. You think this is a good thing? Seriously, don't be a shallow, biased whore. The comment was plainly out-and-out stupid, and thinking that graphics are "the whole point" to gaming....

Why not just make a fucking CGI movie then. Advent Children was a work of art.

I will laugh every single time I ever see you mention anything about gameplay, because graphics "are the whole point." Some wannabe celebrity from Japan said so.

Itagaki trolled your ass and you bought it up.


Kind of silly to post in this thread then.

Stop throwing Ninja Gaiden out there. It's not about that game, it's about this guy's callous comments.

Your last post and this one qualify as Dumb as Shit and the sort of thing SirBruce would do. Note how quickly he mentioned gameplay in the next paragraph. As Stray said, he trolled your ass. And trust me, I'm no Team Ninja fanboi - except when it comes to graphics. They simply optimize systems.


Straz, stop being a dickhead. Right Now. Or you can go mince words somewhere the fuckelse.

That little snippet is either bad English, or a contradictory statement; Which is it? Saying it's all about the graphics, and then turning around in the Next Breath and saying it's all about the gameplay....wtf.

One funny thing I found in the interview is his hate for Tekken. Terrific, you hate all 5 games. I wouldn't say anything in the DoA series is much better; they both pale in comparison to something like Soul Calibur. Maybe they should spend less time hating on a bad game, and more time trying to one-up a good game.

Truly, you are Mediocre.

This makes the vault look good. I LIKE!

Me? You can't even form a good argument. What you have consists of, "Guy made these games. He can say whatever he likes."

I'm done with this. Trying to have a conversation with a wall is useless.

I know I don't post much, but dude have you gone crazy?

I concur! Are you batshit insane, Straz? Schild is more than a wall. He's a dental dam.

The Lollipop Kids are rebelling!

I HAVE to throw it out there, because it's the only way for you to understand his point. Without it, you completely miss the....

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

IRONY.

Without playing NG, you take his comments far too seriously. He understands full well how to make a game with good "gameplay". RTFA. The part of his statement that is true though, is that "Video" games have to satisfy more than just the demand of "good gameplay" in order to be successful, else people would still be playing Monopoly, Chess, or Backgammon all the time. Like it or not, Video games are both a display of good gameplay AND good technology. That's why they're "Video Games" and not just "Games".

Graphics/gameplay musings aside, the Tekken thing just makes him look like just another whiny little internet bitch.

Yes.

And fuck him if he doesn't think story is important.  Resident Evil 4 had fantastic graphics and fantastic gameplay, but it was figuring out what exactly was going on with that weird ass cult that kept me playing for hours on end.

I'm sure it works for his games (okay, DoA volleyball doesn't need a story), and I know it's really what schild inferred rather than what he actually said.

Regardless.  Story is important.  I wouldn't be a gamer without it.

He never said story wasn't important. For him it obviously isn't. And it doesn't need to be. If only half the games that had an amazing story had the technical gameplay side of Ninja Gaiden. Gaming would be a better place. I wouldn't be a gamer without story either, but I'd like people that can program as well as Team Ninja to be making the games with stories. I can't think of a game right now with a stellar story that had zero bugs. Planescape, Jade Empire, Bloodlines, Deus Ex - these games had near gamestopping bugs at release. Well, not Jade Empire - even though it has menu items that don't actually exist in the final retail version of the game (go go minigames). There's simply better QA in games based completely around gameplay I guess.

In short:
Bloodlines without the story would have been shit.
Ninja Gaiden, having no story, was the shit.

Itagaki said exactly what he meant. And didn't knock the great storytellers of the industry when he said it.

Agreed, Ninja Gaiden was very pretty and had pretty solid gameplay but it doesn't come close to the gaming goodness that was Planescape: Torment.

I generally put Torment at the top of my best games evar list with Deus Ex. Unfortunately if you were to distribute merit based solely on gameplay... Torment wouldn't be uttered in the same breath as Ninja Gaiden. The only game on my current top 10 that compares to Ninja Gaiden in terms of gameplay is God of War.

I prefer story too, but if either is good (that is, story and gameplay), they'll both keep me hangin' in with a desire the finish/beat a game.

Graphics (or at least style) will be one of the big things that compels me to purchase a game in the first place.  :wink:

I don't really have a top 10 list, I guess. Full Throttle or Sam n Max would be up there (story), but so would Wing Commander, Tempest, or Jagged Alliance (gameplay).

Only me who thinks he looks like michael jackson? (http://www.1up.com/media?id=2333453)

Anyway, I think the importance of graphics / story depends on what game you're trying to make. If you're talking RPGs then a solid story is much more important than graphics, the exception being action RPGs perhaps.

Everything you say is now in doubt.
Because that wasn't art, or anything vaguely RESEMBLING art.

People on this site call whatever shit they happen to like art.

His statement was not contradictory because he doesn't understand the difference between graphics and gameplay. If you doubt this, go play DOA: Beach Volleyball, or read his comments on DOA4. 90% of it is how so and so new character has some nice animation.

Every 6 months or so he will give an interview where all he does is bash Tekken. He is a small child. The idea that you need great graphics or else people will just play Backgammon is beyond stupid. If you can't figure out why that argument is bad, you are stupid as well. Seriously. (Obvious counter-examples for the win!)

It's funny because DOA is a two player game, much like Chess, Backgammon, etc. Yet DOA has some of the worst gameplay in a fighting game. The guy is basically a troll.

But what do you expect? Their main franchise is based on bouncing digital tits and everybody knows it. Obviously they have to adopt some sort of confusing, BS position so they have something else to talk about. Otherwise you have this:

DOA - Bouncing tits, check. Gameplay, x.
DOA:XBV - Bouncing tits, check. Gamplay, x.

Interviewer:
So...the new DOA had some tits?
"yes."
Ok...um...we're done?

Pointing out how much Mai helped Fatal Fury with the casual gamer would be pointless with you. Way to completely not mention Ninja Gaiden to help your comments about him. Seriously. The gameplay is 50x better than both DOA and DOABV put together. And it wasn't until recently that another platformer even came CLOSE to that level of fluidity and control.

I know.  That's why I pointed out that I'm aware that was what you inferred, rather than what he said.

If you want this to be a casual gamer website where everyone raves about breasts, feel free. Until then I'm going to stick with the opinion that breasts really don't make a game good. Mai was in FF2, which was not a popular game. I don't think she helped at all. If you want to disagree, I would love to see some evidence that Mai made Fatal Fury popular with the average gamer or that ANYTHING made that set of games popular with the casual gaming crowd. The Fatal Fury set of games is not popular with casual players at all. And of course, the gameplay of Fatal Fury (from 2 onwards) is much better than DOA.

And I care why anyway? If grinds make MMORPGs sell better I'm not for those either. And I have no huge problem with breasts - I have problems with breasts as the main selling point.

As far as Ninja Gaiden is concerned, I covered that. I don't like it for reasons already stated.

Arguing seriously that Team Ninja is not a graphics above gameplay shop is a pretty difficult battle. They made an entire game the only point of which is to collect swimsuits for digital women. Think about that. Yes graphics sell games blah blah blah target demographics like breasts blah blah blah. If you will buy a game for breasts, Team Ninja is the company for you. If you won't by a game for breasts they've made at most one good game in the last decade.

hm. The Tekken series must really consistantly be reaming the DOA series in the poophole sales-wise.

I hear Tekken 5 is good, but the series hasn't been much of anything since the PS1....While DOA was important enough for Microsoft to want exclusive XBox rights to it. I don't think this has anything to do with DOA's failure to succeed ---- Because it simply HAS succeeded plenty, in America, Japan, and elsewhere (I don't like it much myself, but I'll at least admit that).

I don't think Tekken outsells DOA. If it does it isn't by a huge huge margin. But, DOA totally tanked as an arcade game while Tekken does well, and Tekken has more acclaim than DOA. Tekken has national tournaments, DOA does not. And in Asia Tekken is much more popular.

It's just grandstanding. In Japan VF is far and away the most popular and critically acclaimed 3D fighter, so he can't go off on that, it would make him look like a retard. Tekken is a softer target and it makes him feel good to constantly claim that DOA is better. It wouldn't surprise me if he once got turned down for a job at Namco or something either...

I played at some Tekken5, and you can tell that they spent time playing VF4 before and during development.

In Japan the VF series is far and away the number 1 3D fighter. The Sega World arcade has like 15 VF4 machines and on a Wednesday afternoon they are ALL busy, it's insane.

Arcades in Japan are really cool in general, they have some truly wacky games. Sega has a networked action RPG game, and there are a number of games where you buy different cards and put them on a flat playing field, and play by moving them around. For example one of them is a soccer game where you slide your cards around to put them in position, and another is some sort of historical simulation game. It's pretty neat as it combines card collecting with an arcade game.

Virtua Fighter has always been the best of the 3d fighting games.

Fuck DOA.  Double fuck Tekken.  Soul Calibur is good, but no VF.  None of the rest are really worth mentioning.

Def Jam: Battle for NYC Beeotch!!

I shit you not.

I just know I am gonna get shit for this but I enjoyed the gameplay in Psychonauts a shitton more then Ninja Gaiden. I mean Ninja Gaiden came borderline C64 hard, but atleast back then we had MR Z doing trainers for us. ( Yes, Ninja Gaiden still had 50x better gameplay then DOA and DOABV, and it was a good game )

In an arcade?  WTF?  Tell more?

They're trying to get World War 2 right.  The moment some kid figures out how to bomb Pearl Harbour completely and win the battle of Midway it's back on.

The game I was talking about is set in the Edo period I beleive. It's like a real-time Koei game. You have different cards that represent armies or commanders or something like that and you slide them around on the map. If you shake them in activates a special ability, like a special charge attack or something like that.

It's pretty cool because I've never seen anything like it before. It's a big flat surface and you just slide cards around on it, shake them, etc. I believe that was a multiplayer game as well, and you could fight the other person. Maybe soccer was too, I didn't notice.