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f13.net General Forums => MMOG Discussion => Topic started by: Shockeye on August 24, 2005, 05:47:03 PM



Title: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Shockeye on August 24, 2005, 05:47:03 PM
Quote from: Stephen Snow
To the Auto Assault Community, (http://boards.autoassault.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=42885)

We started beta testing earlier this year and here is an update on our progress.

The beta testing period has spawned some great ideas that we want to include before launch. NetDevil and NCsoft are both companies with a strong commitment to releasing “only when it’s ready,” so we want to extend the beta into the spring of 2006. Over this time, we are going to continue tuning, tweaking, and adding to Auto Assault.

There is a lot that we will be changing over the next few months; here is a quick look at some of the items that we will be addressing.

Content for all the races: The core goal is to work on giving things a more diverse feel. The vision we are shooting for is that particular locations will have a specific feel and that the enemies located there have abilities that change up the standard gameplay.

Client performance: More optimizations to increase performance.

Level progression: Level progression will be faster paced and have more levels overall.

Character creation: There will be more details for making a character look unique, as well as customizing your first car.

New Items: More than a thousand new items are going into the game to help balance out the loot system.

Chassis: There are quite a few chassis in the game that people haven’t seen yet, but we are going to add even more.

The list that we have is literally full of hundreds of other things. Keep an eye out – the scope of changes you’ve inspired us to make over the next few months is amazing!

We will not be adding any more testers for North America a little while, but more invites will go out once the next round of content revisions is published later this fall. European beta invites will continue to be sent, but the majority will be issued to coincide with the roll-out of the new content.

We were all excited about a 2005 release, but these changes – and ones to come in the future – will make Auto Assault the best it can be.

Steven Snow
Producer – Auto Assault
NCsoft

Maybe they shouldn't have sent out all those pre-order boxes...


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Krakrok on August 24, 2005, 06:23:05 PM

More levels? Lame. Most beta tester ideas are self serving crap. I hope they are taking them with a grain of salt. More like Guild Wars and less like City of Heroes, kthxbye.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: MrHat on August 24, 2005, 06:34:43 PM
Wish I was still in Denver, would've beta tested that for them in house.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Strazos on August 24, 2005, 07:21:13 PM
I haven't bothered to log into my Beta account since late July. It was just too painful to play at the time.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Margalis on August 24, 2005, 08:10:16 PM
Faster level progression...and more levels!


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Samwise on August 24, 2005, 08:21:52 PM
Maybe they could just change the label on the XP bar from "Experience" to "Levels"!


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Signe on August 24, 2005, 08:29:39 PM
Green is sarcasm, but what's teal?  I forget.  Pity?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: stray on August 24, 2005, 08:38:47 PM
More stupid than WWIIOL


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: MrHat on August 24, 2005, 08:57:41 PM
Green is sarcasm, but what's teal?  I forget.  Pity?

Hahhahaha.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Margalis on August 24, 2005, 11:02:54 PM
To be fair, there is some difference between having 30 levels and having 60 levels that go at twice the rate. Or at least, there can be, if at each level you get new skill points or new abilities or something like that. But overall it seems kind of silly.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Morfiend on August 24, 2005, 11:14:33 PM
To be fair, there is some difference between having 30 levels and having 60 levels that go at twice the rate. Or at least, there can be, if at each level you get new skill points or new abilities or something like that. But overall it seems kind of silly.

I agree. More abilities to play with quicker. I like it. And umm... I think it need the extra time in development.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on August 25, 2005, 12:01:25 AM
So does that mean if you pre-order you get to beta from now till 06?  Or have they not let pre-orders into the beta yet.


\/\/\/\/\/\/  ah I was kinda thinking it'd be fun to play, err I mean test the game..   :wink:


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Trippy on August 25, 2005, 12:07:31 AM
So does that mean if you pre-order you get to beta from now till 06?  Or have they not let pre-orders into the beta yet.
They haven't let in pre-order people yet.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Signe on August 25, 2005, 03:23:45 AM
This is, AT LEAST, six months of beta testing... that's longer than I've played most games. 


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: shiznitz on August 25, 2005, 07:54:36 AM
The only comment I will make is that the game needed more than firing a machine gun constantly for 2 hours and it sounds like they got the message.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Nija on August 25, 2005, 11:06:57 AM
I played up to level 6 on saturday, and .... Can someone tell me when it gets interesting? all i did was drive around and right click in the general direction of slide-show bad guys. I don't remember anything that stood out.

No shit they're delaying it, they don't even have a GAME yet. ( games are fun right? )


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Signe on August 25, 2005, 12:43:03 PM
Whoosh! goes another NDA.  This has GOT to be the game with the most NDA breaks in the shortest amount of time... ever.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Nija on August 25, 2005, 02:59:40 PM
What NDA? Don't you lurk in an irc channel full of bitter people who share accounts in various games?

I'm like the 10th person to play this acct!

NDAs and beta tests are wastes of time. They are great for me though, cause the idea sounds pretty cool. The execution and direction kinda suck.

It's also great to look through patch notes and see what stupid shit they're wasting their time fixing, while broken gameplay mechanics flap in the breeze.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on August 25, 2005, 03:12:50 PM
Green is sarcasm, but what's teal?  I forget.  Pity?

Not meant to be taken seriously, but doesn't fit in the definition of sarcasm.

Like when I say "I'm not having kids, I don't like poopy diapers."

I'm really not having kids, and I really don't like poopy diapers, but that particular sentence isn't meant to be taken seriously.

As for Auto Assault... I can neither confirm nor deny the above, as I have agreed to a Non-Disclosure Agreement.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: stray on August 25, 2005, 03:15:08 PM
You need a one word descriptor (i.e. "Green = Sarcasm").


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on August 25, 2005, 04:15:39 PM
Teal=facetious


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Signe on August 25, 2005, 06:30:27 PM
Thanks for the info.


I'm assuming beige means sincere.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: stray on August 25, 2005, 07:55:26 PM
All of my posts will be in beige from now on then.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Morfiend on August 26, 2005, 12:52:58 AM
All of my posts will be in beige from now on then.

Well then, mine shall be Orange, becasue I am a unique butterfly.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Strazos on August 26, 2005, 01:03:01 AM
NOOOO, Orange is supposed to be my color....

 :sad_panda: :crying_panda: :sad_panda: :crying_panda:


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on August 26, 2005, 01:22:18 AM
Thought pandas were to summon the bruce?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: stray on August 26, 2005, 01:57:14 AM
Thought pandas were to summon the bruce?

No, the panda's just signify sadness (Then again, they're probably just sad because somebody always has to associate them with Bruce...So you're half-correct, I guess).


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Signe on August 26, 2005, 06:37:34 AM
Are they pandas?  I thought they were funny little skeleton faces!


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Furiously on August 26, 2005, 11:12:56 AM
They're laughing at me....


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 26, 2005, 11:24:35 AM
I hope they take the extra time to take a good hard look at the core design. I will be over here, holding my breath until they make it Car Wars Online.  :sad_panda:


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: HaemishM on August 26, 2005, 01:24:15 PM
You mean the design theory of EQ with cars isn't fun?  

Of course, I have no idea if it was EQ with cars, but I got that vibe.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: MahrinSkel on August 26, 2005, 01:42:26 PM
It wasn't at E3 last year.  Then it was just what you could have hoped for, beat-up cars with giant guns running around blowing each other and much of the environment to smithereens.  As soon as I heard about the combat change, my interest and expectations dropped through the floor.  Embrace your niche, people see cars with guns, they expect to be able to point those guns themselves, not just drive around while waving their mouse a bit.

--Dave


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: schild on August 26, 2005, 01:54:37 PM
Truth

Just got an email about the speakers at AGC, why aren't you giving a speech on niches? You should. Put people in their place. All that.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Shockeye on August 26, 2005, 01:55:09 PM
Truth

Just got an email about the speakers at AGC, why aren't you giving a speech on niches? You should. Put people in their place. All that.

They can't handle the truth.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on August 26, 2005, 10:05:08 PM
It has potential.  But yes, combat needs to be much better than it is.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on August 27, 2005, 12:54:50 PM
GTA2 driving, I'm assuming first person is out of the question + EvE customization of ship parts and complexity of design (turret speed, rof, tracking, arcs, damage, ammo, reload times, ect.) should = fun I think.

What're they doing wrong?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: stray on August 27, 2005, 01:48:33 PM
+ no lvls

Seriously, is that asking too much in a vehicle game?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: AOFanboi on August 28, 2005, 01:26:33 PM
Auto Assault, Dreamfall (TLJ 2), new Zelda all delayed until 2006... are they afraid of some stupid console launch this Fall/Winter or something?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: dEOS on August 30, 2005, 02:52:23 AM
My opinion after seeing the AA videos is that the gameplay will be boring fast. That's just by seeing videos... To me, it is dramatic that your game feels bland just by looking at some promotional video.

I believe they realized that and are trying to solve those game aspects somehow.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: shiznitz on August 30, 2005, 07:25:43 AM
Auto Assault would be a pretty good idea for a console MMOG, actually.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 22, 2005, 06:24:42 PM
Here's an article that covers some basics.

http://igo.ampednews.com/gamehub/1109/previews/358/

So now I can talk about the combat system and classes.

Each "race" has 4 "classes" which are basically warrior, rogue, healer, buffer from what I've seen.

Combat is simple.  You have a mounted gun that shoots forward and a mounted gun that shoots behind you.  You also have a turret, and you can move this one around with your mouse.  The goal, then, is to try to catch your enemies in a dual stream of fire by keeping them either directly in front or directly behind you.  Holding right click causes all of these weapons to fire.  There are additional abilities on top of these guns, but basically the guns are the game's version of auto-attack.  You can also run over some enemies to deal damage.

As you might expect, there's no strafe.  When they figure out how to make cars do that, parallel parking is going to be so much easier.  There's go, reverse, turn left, turn right, and brake.  I don't think I can go much into the physics and how well the cars handle because the article doesn't really bring that up, and I'm just trying to provide a spinless version of the information they released.

But go ahead and read the article, ignore all the "kick ass" and "awesome" comments, decide for yourself.  I'm not going to state my opinion, I believe it's NDA protected.

The fiction behind each of the factions is interesting on the site.  I can't discuss how much (or little) of a role that played during my game experience.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 23, 2005, 07:36:02 AM
"While battles are turn based, as in most massively multiplayer titles, the turns are completely hidden, so the combat feels real-time, as if Auto Assault were an actual shooter."

How is it turn based exactly?  Its early but I'm fairly certain that makes no sense.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Mesozoic on September 23, 2005, 07:43:12 AM
I suspect they're referring to the system of a character attacking at regular intervals with a dice-roll chance of hitting, etc.  IE standard MMO combat, not FPS combat.  The turns are probably "hidden" in the sense that the guns, etc look like they're firing near-constantly while in the background the game is timeing cooldowns and rolling dice. 

IE, its a sham.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Lt.Dan on September 23, 2005, 07:46:01 AM
Two biggest problems with AA
1. after an hour you've seen all the gameplay.  Auto shoot and a limited number of specials - bleah
2. Aside from graphics they don't take advantage of the post-holocaust setting.  Everything is still fed-ex, kill the monster stuff.  No resource collecting, blockade running, smuggling, building up your town, radiation storms, etc.  It's just a reskinned fantasy setting.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Krakrok on September 23, 2005, 11:58:57 AM
This makes me sad considering a lead guy of Auto Assault says one of his favorite games is Wasteland. Rosebud anyone?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Yegolev on September 23, 2005, 12:21:31 PM
Each "race" has 4 "classes" which are basically warrior, rogue, healer, buffer from what I've seen.

Retarded.  I don't want to read anything about AA after seeing this.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Mesozoic on September 23, 2005, 12:45:15 PM
I put $5 down on the damn game a few weeks ago, back when it was supposed to be
a) cool, and
b) out by Oct/Nov or something.

Now it
a) sucks, and
b) is delayed until Spring 06.

Anyone know the Software, etc. policy on pre-orders, when they already gave you a pre-order box and CD?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Shockeye on September 23, 2005, 12:50:18 PM
Anyone know the Software, etc. policy on pre-orders, when they already gave you a pre-order box and CD?

Go in and have them move your pre-order money over to a different title.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 23, 2005, 01:10:37 PM
How can they possibly justify having a healer class?

Also why try to market yourself as an alternative to all the fantasy crap we've got being flung around then use stupid ass DnD class archtypes...


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: HaemishM on September 23, 2005, 01:23:56 PM
How can they possibly justify having a healer class?

The same way Battlefield 2 can justify having an engineer able to heal a vehicle from the inside!

Quote
Also why try to market yourself as an alternative to all the fantasy crap we've got being flung around then use stupid ass DnD class archtypes...

Originality is hard?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 23, 2005, 01:36:06 PM
How can they possibly justify having a healer class?

Well, for the Mutants...

Mutants have a connection wit a radioactive substance that can be found throughout parts of the world called Blood.  They use it to enhance their vehicles.  Their healer class has a very close connection and can use it to repair vehicles on the fly.  Or that's what I've gathered.  I don't believe any of that info is under the NDA.

I don't find it too hard to imagine a Biomek throwing a machine at another vehicle that would automatically administer repairs.

So flavor-wise, it's not really that out of place.  Gameplay-wise... <shrug>.

Who knows what'll happen after (what we're assuming is) the redesign, though?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 23, 2005, 03:39:49 PM
Fair enough, you got me there but it still pisses me off.  I swear to god if the "rogue" vehicles get a bonus if they hit somebody in the back of their car I'm going to stab myself in the face and then sue NCsoft.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: andar on September 23, 2005, 08:29:29 PM
This game does not deserve its own thread.  NCSoft shouldn't delay it, they should cancel it, along with Tabula Rasa.  Shooters in which your chance to hit is equivelent to your l33t RPG stat highness?   As lame as the end of that last sentence.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: dEOS on September 26, 2005, 08:33:41 AM
Two biggest problems with AA
1. after an hour you've seen all the gameplay.  Auto shoot and a limited number of specials - bleah
...

That's exactly what you see in the in-game video. Just a total mess of auto-shoot and you driving frantically through landscape.
That would have been fun on my Amiga. But sadly for them we are in 2005.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: shiznitz on September 26, 2005, 11:29:01 AM
AA would be helped by terrain that actually took skill to drive through - narrow bridges, tunnels, jumps, etc. Make either the driving or the shooting depend on player skill.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Sky on September 26, 2005, 11:45:45 AM
Planetside does vehicle combat rather well.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 26, 2005, 03:02:10 PM
If your going to remove aiming, which I dont like but am ok with then you better beef up the thinking required with the rest of the game.  You better at least come close to matching an EvE Online level of item complexity.  I've said that all along.  If they try to cookie cutter the items, or even worse make stupid "Grazlack's vicious chaingun" style ub3r drops then they can go fuck themselves.  It sounds to me like its too simple and they tried to diku a non EQ clone with the expected level of success.

none.



Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 26, 2005, 03:33:41 PM
I don't know.  I'm just not really up for learning a whole new item system.  I just want fun >.< I'm tired of explaining what that is.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Margalis on September 26, 2005, 09:23:03 PM
What is with the freaking auto-aim/auto-attack in these games! First E&B now this. I can understand a MMORPG having auto-aim/auto-attack because it's not that different from some CRPG stuff. But a space or car shooter with auto-attack? It truly boggles the mind.

E&B should have been about piloting your ship and dogfighting. Sadly neither flying or fighting mattered at all. Sounds like this is the same deal.

Here's a great idea, maybe in the next Gran Tourismo they should make the cars just drive themselves...

If they want to have levels and you get better weapons at better levels ok, but for god's sake in a game about driving and shooting, please let me actually drive and shoot, not watch the computer do it for me.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 26, 2005, 09:36:33 PM
Well it's not autoattack.  You hold the mouse button down and it shoots.  It shoots with infinite ammo and seems to roll hits/misses in addition to requiring you to actually have the target in the stream of gunfire, but it's not QUITE autoattack.  Kinda like how holding down shift and click in Diablo wasn't auto-attack... even though it did make you attack automatically.... it at least had something to do with your position versus the enemy's position and didn't require you to select a specific target on whom to center your attack.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 26, 2005, 11:10:27 PM
I'm still going to say that form of combat can work fine, as long as there is a very robust car customization system akin to EvE's shipbuilding.  But the second someone said: 

Quote
"Combat is simple.  You have a mounted gun that shoots forward and a mounted gun that shoots behind you.  You also have a turret, and you can move this one around with your mouse.  The goal, then, is to try to catch your enemies in a dual stream of fire by keeping them either directly in front or directly behind you.  Holding right click causes all of these weapons to fire.  There are additional abilities on top of these guns, but basically the guns are the game's version of auto-attack.  You can also run over some enemies to deal damage."

How uncreative do you have to be?  This is what I expected: the really fast trike should only have one weapon mount, while giant armored big rigs should get 6 broadside mounts with very limited fields of fire but the ability to mount giant fucking cannons.  If your not capable of even that basic level of "this is how it would be in a post apoc. world" thinking then you aren't worthy of being paid to make video games...


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Margalis on September 26, 2005, 11:12:08 PM
Meh, sounds basically like E&B. In E&B you had to have the enemy withing in certain targeting area, but that was it. Just keep them in the center of the screen and spam away. Seriously who thinks that rolling hits and misses makes sense?

Edit: It sounds like a real lack of imagination. I could think of something better after watching Road Warrior and playing Car Wars for an hour. It's like, let's take a car driving/shooting game then strip out everything interesting and add in Elf-equivalents.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: schild on September 26, 2005, 11:15:49 PM
Seriously who thinks that rolling hits and misses makes sense?

Blizzard and the few...ho-zillion people playing it. Seriously, money funds this shit. It makes sense to the people with the money because an actual gibbering retard can play these games. What's better than getting every social person playing a game? Getting all the anti-social people playing a game together also.

And charging them $15 a month.

This isn't a knock against Blizzard or EQ or anything else. It makes perfect business sense, that's all there is too it. The more skill, thought, or gaming aptitude it takes to play a game, the less people can/will play it. Look at Katamari Damacy, everyone from 5 to 55 is playing it. It's like those old Puzzle boxes that had every age group on them. This is exactly why I think WoW sent us back into the stone age in terms of MMOG innovation. Of course, I'm a total pessimist.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 27, 2005, 02:01:29 AM
You don't miss in Guild Wars.  Enemies can use abilities to have a chance to block or evade, or if you're using a projectile they can try to predict its arc and dodge it in mid-air (though they do a surprisingly good job of predicting where players will be when they hit), or if you're firing from a very long range it can (rarely) stray from the target, but generally speaking if you swing your weapon you can expect to hit.  100% chance unless you factor in something else (and those something elses actually have a purpose and are fantasy-realistic).

So.  It can be done.  How come it isn't?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Sky on September 27, 2005, 07:45:33 AM
Quote
How uncreative do you have to be?  This is what I expected: the really fast trike should only have one weapon mount, while giant armored big rigs should get 6 broadside mounts with very limited fields of fire but the ability to mount giant fucking cannons.  If your not capable of even that basic level of "this is how it would be in a post apoc. world" thinking then you aren't worthy of being paid to make video games...
I wouldn't disagree with what you said.
Quote
This is exactly why I think WoW sent us back into the stone age in terms of MMOG innovation.
Actually it was EQ that fucked the genre, WoW just sealed the deal.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Dren on September 27, 2005, 08:17:33 AM
I don't believe EQ or WoW did any such thing as slow the genre or kill it.

Do you think that if a new game came out that satisfied everything you want it would be popular?  I think it is safe to say that most people don't want to rely on their skill, but rather prefer the autoattack and hit/miss systems we have today.  You may not be most people, but that doesn't matter.

My guess is that if a game comes out that satisfies those that hate WoW, that game will have lackluster sales.  While that is actually fine for smaller dev houses you then run into production quality issues that have already proven to pound great ideas into the dirt.

It is the same problem I have with restaurants.  The really good ones that actually put taste into their meals make most people upset.  So, you get all these franchises that make mainly bland crap.  To find the great food, you go to little hole in the walls or specialty diners that take 1 hour to seat you and might have bugs on the floor, or they costs an arm and a leg. 

I could make a similar comparison to music, art, etc.

The jist?  If you are not standard or normal, you will never get everything you want.  :-D


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 27, 2005, 08:25:33 AM
This is exactly why I think WoW sent us back into the stone age in terms of MMOG innovation.

Depends on what you mean by innovation.  There are more people playing MOGs now than ever before.  WoW clearly brought in an immense number of people who'd never been interested in MOGs before.

Technical innovation will probably be in the more "serious" applications like the Games for Health initiative (http://www.gamesforhealth.org/).  This is the sort of thing I'd like very much to get into.  I'm of the opinion the real use for virtual world technology is in health and education.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Merusk on September 27, 2005, 08:28:37 AM
Dren speaks wisely, and so must be ignored.

Silence, Dren!


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: schild on September 27, 2005, 08:45:08 AM
So, in short.

Harrison Bergeron is the god of MMORPGs? Right, got it.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 27, 2005, 08:57:18 AM
He was a victim of circumstance. As are we all.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Sky on September 27, 2005, 12:02:57 PM
Quote
I don't believe EQ or WoW did any such thing as slow the genre or kill it.
Nobody said that. Fucked it.
Quote
Do you think that if a new game came out that satisfied everything you want it would be popular?
No.
Quote
You may not be most people, but that doesn't matter.
True and true.
Quote
My guess is that if a game comes out that satisfies those that hate WoW, that game will have lackluster sales.
Agreed. I don't play mmorpgs anymore because Planetside is getting long in the tooth and is imo the only one remotely worth playing (with WoW being fun for a few months, admittedly...but teh sux after that ie: 60 raiding).
Quote
It is the same problem I have with restaurants.
Drove me to learn how to cook.
Quote
I could make a similar comparison to music, art, etc.
Indeed. My two favorite discs currently are the new Mars Volta and Hound Dog Taylor's first album. I define eclectic.
Quote
The jist?  If you are not standard or normal, you will never get everything you want. 
Quite well understood, yet it will not keep me from expecting great things. That gives me that bitter edge. Or to quote myself: "My penchant for optimism is the reason I'm a pessimist."

This post brought to you by SB Technologies, LLC.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 27, 2005, 12:07:05 PM
Thank gawd for your garish avatar.  Otherwise I would have thought Bruce or DV were back.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Trippy on September 27, 2005, 12:30:58 PM
Meh, sounds basically like E&B. In E&B you had to have the enemy withing in certain targeting area, but that was it. Just keep them in the center of the screen and spam away. Seriously who thinks that rolling hits and misses makes sense?

Edit: It sounds like a real lack of imagination. I could think of something better after watching Road Warrior and playing Car Wars for an hour. It's like, let's take a car driving/shooting game then strip out everything interesting and add in Elf-equivalents.
Yes the combat is very much like E&B. It is definitely not a "simulation"-style game like, say, Interstate '76.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Dren on September 27, 2005, 12:59:29 PM
Sorry, I should have ended my post with, "And none of this matters, but felt good saying!"

It did feel good actually.  :-D

Continue to expect more...


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 27, 2005, 05:31:37 PM
He was a victim of circumstance. As are we all.

Just finished that book last week, great read and I cried at the end when faced with the futility of life.



@Dren:  I'm willing to agree with you that NCsoft just did not have the balls to put skill into the game, but reserve the right to call bullshit on the idea that a MMO that requires skill would automatically fail money-hat wise.  The fact of the matter is though, making it calculated hit rolls does nothing to excuse a lack of creativity and an overall super simplification of the entire fucking game.  EVE has hit rolls, but the combat is tremendously cerebral as each weapon has tracking speeds and is only effective at certain ranges (with a minimum and maximum).  The idea that all vehicles have the same weapon firearcs alone proves the people designing this are fucking assheads.

Pander to the fucking stupid general public all you want, I'm used to that, but try not to be less competent then a tiny Icelandic studio when you are FUCKING NCSOFT rolling in wads of ill gotten korean money (kens?).


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 27, 2005, 10:53:04 PM
I think it is safe to say that most people don't want to rely on their skill, but rather prefer the autoattack and hit/miss systems we have today.

I would disagree.

I think most MMOG players are defined by that sentence, but most "people" are actually driven away from MMOGs because of the relatively shitty combat.  Even CoH's combat, which is very good for a MMOG, looks pretty lame compared to some other nonMMOG games.  It's hard to show it to your friend who isn't into MMOG and make them think "That looks awesome, I will go buy that now."

Course, if I could jump up and knock a flying enemy out of the sky by jumping on his back and stomping on his head, then rip off his wings when he hit the ground, I think we'd attract some more people.. even if you had to push more than one button to do that.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: HaemishM on September 28, 2005, 07:38:16 AM
The idea that the player would have to push more than 1 button to execute something is anathema to MMOG devs, it would seem. At first, this could be excused as trying to make the game lag tolerant. Nowadays it's just fucking lazy. Of course, we hear the same kind of excuses on the opposite end for why MMOG's can't be turn-based, but blah. It's just lack of imaginative thinking.

Quote from: Hoax
I'm willing to agree with you that NCsoft just did not have the balls to put skill into the game, but reserve the right to call bullshit on the idea that a MMO that requires skill would automatically fail money-hat wise.

Of course it's bullshit. I think the problem lies in that the money people are aiming for success that is at least equal to the current #2 on the MMOG subscription list, at whatever time they are allocating money. They want to have at least as many subscribers as the second-most popular MMOG at the time. Of course, that kind of thinking blinds one to the fact that you don't have to even scratch the top 10 in subscriber numbers to still have a profitable MMOG. I've heard estimates that every AAA MMOG title out there could be profitable with as little as 50,000 subscribers. But to investment people (read: soulless cockmunching moneyfarmers), a profitable 50k is not nearly as attractive as a profitable 200k, even though the percentages of profit are probably very similar since the operating costs on the 200k are exponentially larger than on 50k.

But then it's all numbers to the money men, which is why they are money men.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 28, 2005, 08:12:50 AM
It's hard to show it to your friend who isn't into MMOG and make them think "That looks awesome, I will go buy that now."

Is "friend" a console player?

There are many things a console can do that seem to require quantum servers and negative ping code for a MOG.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 28, 2005, 10:46:56 AM


Is "friend" a console player?

There are many things a console can do that seem to require quantum servers and negative ping code for a MOG.


Replace console with:  fps or rts and you'll get the same result.  Hell the combat in Diablo looks more interesting then your average MMO fight.  Oh and when they find out you have to repeat the process 6,000 times to gain a "level" if they haven't played PnP dont expect them to not want to laugh or hit you for wasting a big chunk of their day.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Krakrok on September 28, 2005, 11:22:37 AM
Course, if I could jump up and knock a flying enemy out of the sky by jumping on his back and stomping on his head, then rip off his wings when he hit the ground, I think we'd attract some more people.. even if you had to push more than one button to do that.

And this is why video games are still in the stone age (and MMOGs are still in pre-history). When people can climb trees in games, get their arm blown off and shoot you in the face with the other hand afterwards, or just plain interact with their environment (like you describe) beyond dev pre-created use points then we'll talk. It's all black and white right now. You are either alive or you are dead in a video game. All actions are pre-defined by the devs beforehand. There is no interesting middle ground. Look at Battlefield 2 or games like Killzone. They have the eye candy but it's the same old tired game. Oh wow they have ragdolls now. Even that is old. Can the medic drag the wounded guy to some cover? Can you dig a fox hole? Hell, you can't grab a ride from a tank in Battlefield 2 (even WWIIOL had that years ago?) can you? Would a MMOG ever think to have deformable terrain spells like the Volcano in Sacrifice?

AutoAssault might have destroyable terrain but that's the only thing it has going for it as far as I can tell. So much for progress.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 28, 2005, 01:17:31 PM
It's hard to show it to your friend who isn't into MMOG and make them think "That looks awesome, I will go buy that now."

Is "friend" a console player?


Doesn't matter.  Could be a console gamer, could be just a non-MMOG gamer, might not even be a gamer at all.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 28, 2005, 01:21:25 PM
I think it matters.  People who like high action/shooters tend to have a much higher bar for combat mechanics.  People with less or no preference on twitch/hand knowledge care much less, if it matters to them at all.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 28, 2005, 03:05:00 PM
This post stolen from the autoassault boards (I wanted to see what they were talking about over there but nobody who knows anything is on the main forum it seemed) sums up my thoughts on MMO's nicely:


Quote
Lack of fun.
I've only recently started playing MMO's cause my friends have. MMO's seem to be made up of bonuses/incentives etc that add to other games, but lack any actual gameplay or fun.

ie levelling up, skill trees, getting new items, new abilities, professions etc are all nice bonuses you can add to a game to increase the longevity, but shouldnt be the core 'gameplay'.

Take away all those things from an mmo and the 'core gameplay' you have left is 'kill x of mob y', 'collect x of item y'...

Call me crazy but im gonna compare this game to GTA. It has alot of the same levelling, collecting, professions to skillup (although not to create things), quests to go on, semi-persistant world to explore...

...But it's also fun. It's fun to just hoon around, dodging between traffic, running people over, escaping from the cops, finding things to jump off. I guess that's where the twitch aspect comes in. It's fun to level your own personal skill as opposed to watching a bar fill up (it's like watching grass grow, or paint dry). Sure the bar can add to the gameplay that's already there, but if the gameplay is the bar, it feels a little too shallow and unsatsfying for my liking.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 28, 2005, 06:49:33 PM
I think it matters.  People who like high action/shooters tend to have a much higher bar for combat mechanics.  People with less or no preference on twitch/hand knowledge care much less, if it matters to them at all.

I believe most people who are at all familiar with games (not necessarily gamers, but someone who grew up in this generation and has been exposed to the genre) expect them to focus largely on combat, and they expect that combat to be fun.  If it's not, why are you playing?  It's not like anything else matters- it's just a game.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 29, 2005, 10:17:13 AM
Well not trying to beat this into the ground but for some people fire & forget combat is prefectly fine - they're there for social reasons or get most of their thrills in some other minigame.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 29, 2005, 12:13:16 PM
Not trying to beat this into the ground but fire & forget might be perfectly fine but it sure has hell can't be called fun for its sake alone.  Those pedestrian combat systems work fine when the combat is a meaningless timesink you wade through to pick up the next piece of shiney loot.  But there is no rule that says you can't get loot from combat that is also fun, just for some reason nobody has ever set a game up with that system.

I would wager the true reason which I dont see mentioned often enough is that fps combat inherently needs AI that are 10 million times smarter then fire & forget mobs.  Otherwise its just going to be pathing, aim, range, whatever exploitation by the players and the combat becomes even more moronic then that of <insert EQ clone here>.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Sky on September 29, 2005, 01:44:20 PM
Not to beat this into the ground, but NDAs suck. I guess they are totally necessary in some cases.
Quote
I would wager the true reason which I dont see mentioned often enough is that fps combat inherently needs AI that are 10 million times smarter then fire & forget mobs.
Reaperbot is how old?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Llava on September 29, 2005, 02:57:40 PM
Well not trying to beat this into the ground but for some people fire & forget combat is prefectly fine - they're there for social reasons or get most of their thrills in some other minigame.

Which is why MMOGs have an audience at all.

But there's a reason that audience is still a niche, albeit a comparitively large niche.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 29, 2005, 03:06:11 PM
WoW just about doubled it...

Point, line, trend - and the trend is up.  People like gaming with people.  People like socializing with people.  What we call a MOG today will probably have a very different name in just a few years.  I drive a car, not a flitter or buggy.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Hoax on September 29, 2005, 03:16:10 PM
What does being social have to do with boring combat?  Every fps I've ever played has developed a very robust player community.  You know the ones that have brought us teamspeak and player run gamer radio stations that shoutcast important ladder matches.  Not to mention irc drama.  These are games with absolutely zero persistence of any kind.  Yet they often have better communities then the raid guild felatio totem poles I run into when playing games like EQ or WoW.

Yes, when you were forced to look at your spellbook and do nothing for several minutes between every fight in EQ1 you got allot of pointless shooting the shit done, but I would hardly consider that an endorsement of manditory soul crushing downtime, would you?


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Margalis on September 29, 2005, 03:27:19 PM
The core gameplay is often the worst aspect of MMORPGs. In way this is true of some console and PC RPGs as well.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 29, 2005, 06:02:25 PM
What does being social have to do with boring combat?

It means many, probably more, people don't consider the event boring just because the combat is simplistic.  Ever been to a rock concert?  Did it completely suck because it wasn't you on the stage?  Maybe you did some air guitar out in the audience but did that make or break your experience?

For a lot of folks being online in a game is a lot like a rock concert.  They're there for the experience and to be with their friends.

I appreciate that's not enough for you.  Just making an observation that concert promoters make a lot more money selling to non-musicians.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Alkiera on September 29, 2005, 06:14:23 PM
Quote
Lack of fun.
I've only recently started playing MMO's cause my friends have. MMO's seem to be made up of bonuses/incentives etc that add to other games, but lack any actual gameplay or fun.

ie levelling up, skill trees, getting new items, new abilities, professions etc are all nice bonuses you can add to a game to increase the longevity, but shouldnt be the core 'gameplay'.

Take away all those things from an mmo and the 'core gameplay' you have left is 'kill x of mob y', 'collect x of item y'...

Call me crazy but im gonna compare this game to GTA. It has alot of the same levelling, collecting, professions to skillup (although not to create things), quests to go on, semi-persistant world to explore...

...But it's also fun. It's fun to just hoon around, dodging between traffic, running people over, escaping from the cops, finding things to jump off. I guess that's where the twitch aspect comes in. It's fun to level your own personal skill as opposed to watching a bar fill up (it's like watching grass grow, or paint dry). Sure the bar can add to the gameplay that's already there, but if the gameplay is the bar, it feels a little too shallow and unsatsfying for my liking.

Can we sticky this somewhere?  It's too long for my .sig...

What does being social have to do with boring combat?

It means many, probably more, people don't consider the event boring just because the combat is simplistic.  Ever been to a rock concert?  Did it completely suck because it wasn't you on the stage?  Maybe you did some air guitar out in the audience but did that make or break your experience?

For a lot of folks being online in a game is a lot like a rock concert.  They're there for the experience and to be with their friends.

I appreciate that's not enough for you.  Just making an observation that concert promoters make a lot more money selling to non-musicians.

And they make next to no money when trying to promote middle school band recitals.... The only people who come are parents and teachers.

Alkiera


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Pococurante on September 29, 2005, 06:22:49 PM
Ah.  Nothing to see here.  Move on.


Title: Re: Auto Assault delayed until 2006.
Post by: Signe on September 29, 2005, 07:31:05 PM
Ah.  Nothing to see here.  Move on.


Ain't that the truth.