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f13.net General Forums => World of Warcraft => Topic started by: Shockeye on August 18, 2005, 06:44:02 PM



Title: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Shockeye on August 18, 2005, 06:44:02 PM
Quote
Patch 1.7 Changes (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html)

Zul'Gurub

      Hidden within the jungles of Stranglethorn, an ancient Troll city full of peril has been uncovered. Do you have what it takes to delve into its mysteries with a band of hardy explorers? There's only one way to find out! Zul'Gurub is a high-level, 20-man raid instance with 120 new rare and epic items to uncover. Adventure awaits!

Arathi Basin

      Join the League of Arathor or the Forsaken Defilers as they battle for the precious resources stockpiled within the latest Battleground, Arathi Basin! Pitting 15 members of each faction against each other, the race is on to be the first to 2000 resources, capturing strategic landmarks around the Basin to increase your team's gain and cripple the enemy. With an all-new set of reputation-based rewards, there's never been a better time to join the war!

Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza

      The Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza is a grand new event set along the coasts of Stranglethorn Vale. Early on the appointed day, friendly neighborhood goblins will visit Ironforge and Orgrimmar to inform aspiring anglers of the grand tournament and give instructions. At the appropriate time, the shout will ring out across Stranglethorn to bait your hooks and cast your lines!

General

    * Switching weapons in combat triggers a 1 second global cooldown for all abilities for rogues and a 1.5 second global cooldown for everyone else.
    * Tauren can now ride wolves if they learn the wolfriding ability.
    * Possessed units (e.g. Mind Control, Eyes of the Beast etc...) can now cancel combat mode by clearing your current target. In addition, the UI will have a gold border when the possessed unit is actively in combat mode with the target.
    * Several stun spells and abilities that were previously unresistable can now be resisted as was always intended.
    * Damage absorption no longer protects against falling, drowning, or fatigue damage.
    * The targeting circles for area effect spells will no longer be cancelled when the caster moves.
    * Absorbed and resisted environmental damage is now shown in the combat log.
    * If an attack deals non-physical damage, the type of damage is now reported in the combat log.
    * Fixed bug where you could kill someone in a duel with spell reflection.
    * Auras and shapeshift forms can be cancelled while you are fleeing or confused.
    * Fixed bug where you couldn't right click to attack a hunter who is feigning death.
    * You can no longer unequip weapons while they are disarmed.
    * Debuffs and area effect spells now use their actual cast level rather than effective cast level for calculating periodic resistance.
    * Escape Artist works with Frost Nova and Frost Trap again.
    * Damage absorption is now applied before damage splitting effects.
    * Casting spells on your pets and summons will no longer cause guards in neutral towns to attack you.
    * Fixed a bug where mana was being regenerated while channelling spells that use mana.
    * Fixed a bug where the Dazed ability used by creatures when attacking targets from behind was countered/dispelled by some spells (e.g. Blessing of Freedom).
    * Fixed a bug where area of effect periodic damage spells were being resisted more frequently than they should have been when casting lower level ranks of the spell (affected spells were Blizzard, Consecration, Explosive Trap, Flamestrike, Hurricane, Rain of Fire and Volley).
    * Effects that make players immune to physical will no longer be immune to the "Recently Bandaged" effect from First Aid.
    * Made general improvements to the camera.
    * Meeting Stones
          o A number of miscellaneous improvements have been made that should allow for better group forming when using the meeting stones.
          o You will no longer be kicked from the meeting stone queue when a player declines a group invite or when inviting someone that is already in a group.
          o You will now be informed that you have left the meeting stone queue when the group leader logs out.
          o Tanks and Healers will now be immediately added to the group by the meeting stone when they are the 5th member of the group.
          o You can now be added to a group by the meeting stone when that group contains characters that have disconnected.

PvP

    * Battlegrounds
          o Battleground "holidays" have been added to Warsong Gulch, Alterac Valley and Arathi Basin. Holidays occur during most weekends, starting on Thursday night at midnight and continuing until Tuesday morning. During a holiday, emmissaries from that Battleground will be found in the major cities, and honor/faction rewards for performing objectives in that battleground are increased.
          o System Messages have been added to Warsong Gulch to replace the heralds.
          o Losers of Warsong Gulch are now given a "Ribbon of Sacrifice" which they may turn in to Captain Shatterspear or Sentinel Farsong for a faction reward.
          o Offensive use of damage immunities no longer causes the flag to drop in Warsong Gulch.
          o In the Battlegrounds, you will now automatically be resurrected by Spirit Healers unless you choose to decline.
          o A bug that allowed ghost players to pass through the Warsong Gulch starting gate has been fixed.
          o Alterac Valley now correctly rewards honor for owning graveyards at the end of the game.
          o Characters that use the Battlemaster to enter a Battleground will now port back to that Battlemaster when they leave the Battleground for any reason.
          o Fixed range check for removing insignia from players in Battlegrounds.
          o Fixed a bug that would cause players to stand up when a turnin was made in Alterac Valley.
          o Players will no longer be able to gain health by repeatedly entering and leaving the effect of a Battle Standard.
          o Entering a battleground now resets the timer for the AFK flag. This should prevent players being kicked by the AFK timer moments after they enter the Battleground instance.
          o Using the /who command while in a Battleground instance will now only display players in your instance.
    * Consecration and other similar spells can no longer be used by non-PvP flagged players to damage PvP flagged enemies.
    * Racial "Leaders" have been strengthened, and are now worth slightly less honor.
    * Players may no longer purchase items that require a PvP rank unless they meet the rank requirement at the time of purchase.

Druids

    * Improved Starfire - The stun effect can now be resisted.
    * Druids should now be able to shapeshift back into caster form while Feared.
    * Cat Form - The base weapon damage of the form has been increased.
    * Cat Form - Each point of agility now adds 1 attack power.
    * Cat Form - Rip's damage per combo point has been increased.
    * Cat Form - Ferocious Bite's damage per combo point has been increased. In addition, extra energy now converts to damage at a higher rate.
    * Cat Form - Replaced global cooldown on Tiger's Fury with a 1 second self cooldown. In addition, its duration has been increased to 6 seconds.
    * Cat Form - Rake's damage has been increased.

Hunters

    * Due to significant talent changes, Hunters will have all talent points refunded and can be respent. Training costs for all talent spell/ability replacements have been significantly reduced.
    * Survival and Beast Master talent trees have undergone major revisions in an effort to give Hunters additional, viable choices when selecting talents.
    * Deterrence - Will now increase parry chance when using Fist Weapons.
    * Deflection - Will now increase parry chance when using Fist Weapons.
    * Improved Concussive Shot - The stun effect can now be resisted.
    * Trueshot Aura - Attack Power and Ranged Attack Power bonus increased, mana cost decreased, area of effect increased.
    * Frost Trap - Updated tooltip to reflect duration of the Frost Trap Effect.
    * Aimed Shot - Fixed tooltip to correctly display shot time.
    * Auto Shot - Fixed a bug where switching targets would cancel Auto Shot. Switching targets should now continue firing on the newly acquired target.
    * Scatter Shot - Should now cancel combat mode when used.
    * Eyes of the Beast - Cast time reduced.
    * Flare - Fixed the tooltip to accurately reflect the actual radius of the effect.
    * Ranged Weapon Specialization - Now affects all ranged weapon attacks (e.g. Arcane Shot).
    * Improved Concussive Shot - Will now have a chance to stun targets that are afflicted with other slowing effects (e.g. Wing Clip).
    * Pet Abilities
          o Hunters now have the first round of pet customization available. New passive abilities include increased armor, stamina, Fire resistance, Frost resistance, Nature resistance, Shadow resistance, and Arcane resistance.
          o Hunter pets can now be untrained of all their skills from any beast trainer in the major cities. Similar to talents, untraining a specific pet scales up as you do it more times: 10 silver, 50 silver, 1 gold, 2 gold, 3 gold, etc., eventually stopping at 10 gold.
          o Training point costs for all abilities have been rebalanced. You'll now be able to use all your pet's training points with meaningful choices. To help make "hunting" pets more viable in more situations, the Growl ability is now free to all pets.
          o Bats, owls, and carrion birds can now learn the Screech ability, a fast single-target attack that also lowers the attack power of all enemies within melee range of the pet.
          o Cats can now learn Stealth. In addition to being unseen, they receive a damage bonus for their first attack coming out of stealth.
          o Scorpids can now learn Scorpid Poison. The poison deals Nature damage over time and stacks up to five times on a single enemy.
          o Wolves can now learn Furious Howl. The howl adds a flat amount of damage to all nearby party member's next attack (within 15 yards).
    * Hunter pets now gain experience based on the level difference between them and their target rather than the difference between the Hunters and their target. This will make it much easier to level up a low level pet. Keep in mind that the Hunter must still kill creatures from which he/she will gain experience.
    * The tooltips for quick Hunter shots have been updated to show them as instant abilities.
    * Feign death is no longer resisted by players.
    * Hunters are now able to rename their pets while mounted.
    * Hunter's pets will be smarter about when to use Dash/Dive.

Paladins

    * New Spell: Hammer of Wrath (Level 44) - Hurls a hammer that strikes an enemy for Holy damage. Only usable on a wounded target.
    * Blessing of Sacrifice no longer shares damage with dead Paladins (You can no longer kill Paladin Ghosts).
    * Paladins can no longer activate Divine Favor on the previously cast healing spell.

Priests

    * Focused Casting - Mana cost removed. Now no longer triggers the global cooldown on all other spells.
    * Vampiric Embrace - Now heals 20% of the damage actually caused (including critical hits, buffs etc...) but now only heals when shadow spells cause the damage.
    * Switching to Shadow Form no longer cancels Holy buffs on a priest.
    * You can cancel melee combat while mind controlling by clearing the target, like you can normally.

Rogues

    * Riposte - Will now initiate combat when used.
    * Deflection - Will now increase parry chance when using Fist Weapons.
    * Mace Specialization - The stun effect can now be resisted.
    * Shoot Bow/Gun/Crossbow - Should no longer cause a global cooldown on all other abilities.
    * The fire damage from the Blazefury Medallion and the Gutgore Ripper's effect should no longer immediately break Gouge.

Warlocks

    * Inferno - The stun effect can now be resisted. Tooltip updated to reflect enslave duration after the initial summon.
    * Spell Lock (Felhunter) - In addition to interrupting spellcasting, it will now silence the target for a short duration.
    * Benefits received from the old Master Conjuror talent should now be removed on all Warlocks.
    * Firestone - When a Firestone is equipped, it should no longer interrupt tradeskill creation.
    * Demonic Sacrifice - All effects gained from sacrificing the pet should no longer be dispellable.
    * Conflagrate - The Conflagrate spell is now instant cast. The damage and mana cost has been raised on all ranks of the spell.
    * Fear will now cause creatures to flee immediately, even if they are already moving.
    * Succubus pets will be smarter about when to use Seduction.
    * Succubus pets can now autocast Lesser Invisibility.

Warriors

    * Deflection - Will now increase parry chance when using Fist Weapons.
    * Retaliation - Will now cause a maximum of 30 retaliatory strikes in 15 seconds. In addition, retaliatory strikes will not be possible while stunned.
    * Improved Revenge - The stun effect can now be resisted.
    * Mace Specialization - The stun effect can now be resisted.
    * Retaliation, Recklessness and Shield Wall will no longer be cancelled if you switch stances while the effect is active.
    * Shield Slam - Threat caused increased.
    * Shoot Bow/Gun/Crossbow - Should no longer cause a global cooldown on all other abilities.

Items

    * We have determined that the defense statistic was being applied to items too liberally, causing those items to be stronger than they should have been relative to other items of the same level with different effects. As a result, we have reduced the amount of defense points on all items with bonuses to defense by approximately 33% in order to bring those items in line with other similar items.
    * Proficiency Bonuses have been added to the game. Some sets of equippable items have been added that will give bonus effects to the player only if they have a specific skill, such as Leatherworking.
    * With the new ability to train Hunter pets with considerable magical resistance, the amount of pet resistance granted by the set bonuses for the Giantstalker's and Dragonstalker's has been reduced while the pet health granted has been increased.
    * The Earthfury set bonus that increases the range of totems now works with the Mana Tide Totem.
    * The Giantstalker's set bonus that increases Volley damage now works properly.
    * The Lawbringer Paladin Set's Healing Circle effect now only affects your party, but the range of the heal has been increased to 30 yds.
    * The pants and gloves for the Dreadmist, Magister's and Devout sets have had their Agility removed, and other statistics slightly increased.
    * The free mana cost buff provided by the Mage's Netherwind armor set is now called "Netherwind Focus" and will be noted in your combat log.
    * The effect of the Judge's Gavel has been changed to a stun.
    * Flarecore Gloves now bind when equipped.
    * Flarecore Leggings and Robe now provide a damage bonus to all spells, not just fire spells.
    * The duration of the Bonereaver's Edge weapon debuff has been lowered, but the frequency of the effect has been raised.
    * The Polychromatic Visionwrap is now a cloth item with durability.
    * The Searing Needle's proc will now do the listed damage of the tooltip.
    * The Unstoppable Force now has a short duration stun instead of a knockback effect, and the stun will occur less frequently.
    * Changing stances no longer removes the Orb of Deception effect.
    * When you have more than one transformation aura (Orb of Deception, Noggenfogger, etc.), the last one applied is the one that is shown.
    * Several of the Molten Core Epic Weapons have been updated with new weapon glows.
    * Totems affected by the Earthfury set bonus no longer have their effect flicker when players are outside their normal radius.
    * Fixed bug preventing several items, such as the Goblin Jumper Cables, from being gift wrapped.
    * Fixed bug where equipping and unequipping set items and other items with the same bonus as the set bonus could reduce the affected stats twice until logout.
    * Sayge's Dark Fortune of Resistance now adds +25 to all schools instead of +10%.
    * PvP reward gloves that grant stealth detection have had the detection reduced somewhat.
    * There are now items in the game that have a duration on them that is measured in real time. For instance, there are fish that have a four-hour duration; they only last four hours regardless of whether or not the character is logged in.
    * Alterac Valley Spring Water now has a minimum level of 55.
    * The Lobotomizer's proc name has been changed to "Brain Damage".
    * Corrected the art for the Nether-lace Tunic.
    * The Marshal's Lamellar Legplates now have the proper strength bonus.
    * The Fire Runed Grimoire and Darkmoon Card: Heroism are now properly considered armor items.
    * The spirit buff from Bottled Alterac Spring Water should now work for shapeshifted druids.
    * The Marshal's Silk Gloves now has the Mana Shield improvement effect.
    * The effect tooltips for The Black Book, Gutgore Ripper, and Natural Alignment Crystal now properly list their duration.
    * Scout's Blade now properly sheathes at the hip.
    * A few items in the Alliance PvP Rogue and Druid sets were previously misnamed, this has been corrected.
    * The Cenarion and Earthfury Vestments now have proper durability values.
    * The Sergeant Major's Silk Cuffs and First Sergeant's Silk Cuffs now have the same amount of stamina.
    * The stun from the Tidal Charm trinket no longer breaks when damage is dealt to the stunned target.
    * The Fade effect on the Stealthblade will no longer trigger the cooldown for the Rogue's Feint ability.
    * The effect of Black Amnesty will now be noted in the combat log.
    * Rethban Ore, Black Diamonds, and Pristine Black Diamonds may now be found in the Miscellaneous Junk category of the Auction House.
    * Blue Wedding Hanbok name changed to reflect the actual color of the dress.
    * The minimum level 48 Lorekeeper's Ring and Advisor's Ring now properly consider their effects to be passive.
    * Hair should no longer stick through the Helm of Endless Rage.

Pets

    * You can now modify the auto-cast status of pet spells in the pet spellbook.

Professions

    * New crafted sets have been added that require reagents found only in Zul'Gurub or through the reputation gained from adventuring therein.
    * Only spells and abilities that target enemy units will cancel the World Enlarger effect.
    * Black Lotus is no longer soulbound.
    * Blackfury and Black Amnesty now bind when equipped.
    * Catseye Goggles have had their stealth detection increased somewhat.
    * The Mooncloth Robe pattern changed so it displays as white quality instead of blue since it is vendor purchased.
    * The Effects of Flasks will now persist through death.
    * Free Action potions can now be dispelled.
    * Wildvine potions have been improved.
    * Dreamless Sleep potions now take full effect in 12 seconds instead of 15.
    * There is now a Horde cooking recipe that uses Tender Crocolisk Meat found at Brackenwall Village.
    * Dark Iron Boots have been added as Blacksmithing plans that require Exalted reputation with the Thorium Brotherhood.
    * Timbermaw Reputation Recipes are no longer sold in limited quanities with a restock time. If you have the reputation, you will always be able to buy the recipe.
    * Significantly more Stranglekelp has started washing ashore to the beaches of the world.
    * Dark Iron mineral nodes will now sometimes appear in the Burning Steppes and Searing Gorge.
    * Enchanting an item with an enchantment that will cause the item to become soulbound will now prompt the enchanter with a warning message before the enchantment is cast.
    * The Gnomish Death Ray now only can be cast if the target is within 20 yards. Previously you could cast this on players outside that range, even though the spell immediately failed.
    * Cured Rugged hides now stack to 10 instead of 5.

Quest

    * A great number of quests and events added to Zul'Gurub.
    * A level 50 class quest has been added for the Rogue (Lord Ravenholdt in Ravenholdt Manor), Priest (Greta Mosshoof in Felwood), Mage (Archmage Xylem in Azshara), and Hunter (Ogtinc in Azshara).
    * Reputation gains given to a player on the Alliance, Horde, or Steamwheedle Cartel factions directly will now cascade down to member factions through the middle of the Exalted reputation level.
    * The summoning crystals of Andorhal have been removed; as a result, Araj the Summoner will behave like a normal spawn. The respawn time on Araj once he is slain is 10-15 minutes. It should be noted that the spawns surrounding where he holds dominion have been maintained; players seeking to defeat him should not be shy about bringing friends with them.
    * Araj the Summoner now has increased hit points and does increased melee damage.
    * Araj the Summoner no longer drops a Corruptor's Scourgestone 100% of the time when killed.
    * The text for the Horde and Alliance versions of "Araj's Scarab" now reflect the changes done to the Araj encounter.
    * The text for the Horde and Alliance versions of "Alas, Andorhal" now reflect the changes done to the Araj encounter.
    * The Argent Dawn quest "The Active Agent" now offers a choice of rewards: Seal of the Dawn and Rune of the Dawn. Both may be used just like an Argent Dawn Commission.
    * Players seeking to replace their Seal of the Dawn (or get a Rune of the Dawn instead) once they've finished "The Active Agent" quest should speak with Betina Bigglezink in Eastern Plaguelands.
    * The Seal of the Dawn is now unique, no longer has any cash value, and is no longer disenchantable.
    * The level 5 quests had the ranged weapon removed from their reward options. This was done to make sure hunters upgrade their melee damage in the levels before obtaining a pet.
    * Added text to the Test of Endurance quest to indicate you might need to bring some friends along.
    * The amount of XP and Stormwind reputation has been increased for completing "Hilary's Necklace" quest.
    * Torek in Ashenvale (the questgiver for Torek's Assault) is now PvP enabling.
    * Important Blackrock Documents for the Horde quest, "Warlord's Command," no longer despawn. They can still randomly spawn at one of four locations.
    * Two new quests have been added to Thorium Point in the Searing Gorge for Thorium Brotherhood reputation turnin for players with neutral faction. You will now be able to turn in Iron and Heavy Leather to increase your reputation with the Brotherhood.
    * "The Darkreaver Menace" quest has had its reward improved; any Shaman who has already completed the quest should speak to Sagorne Creststrider in Orgrimmar to get their new reward.
    * The Boulderslide Ravine quest in Stonetalon Mountains now more clearly points players to the Boulderslide Ravine.
    * The original Hakkar quest (the one that involved killing Hakkar's Avatar in the Sunken Temple) has been extended, and now offers a reward.
    * Completing the initial Magram or Gelkis quest in Desolace now gives appropriate positive and negative reputation gains.
    * The completion dialogue for the "A Rogue's Deal" quest has been clarified.
    * All 8 versions of the "A Donation of Runecloth" quest have had their quest text clarified.
    * Certain mobs and NPCs that erroneously had plus or minus reputation gains on kills for Horde or Alliance have been corrected.
    * Various quest typos fixed.

Raids and Dungeons

    * Characters will now receive an error when attempting to enter a raid dungeon if the reason they cannot enter is because they are not in a raid group.
    * Fixed a bug that was preventing Rallying Cry of the Dragon Slayer to fire when Onyxia's head was turned in (assuming a head was not already up).
    * You can now no longer avoid Onyxia's confuse effect by jumping or moving erratically.
    * Death Knight Darkreaver in Scholomance shouldn't be so noisy anymore.
    * The Ogre Tannin Basket in Dire Maul should stick around longer if someone opens it and does not initially loot the tannin from it.
    * A few Molten Core bosses now drop Fiery or Lava Cores.

User Interface

    * New "Dressing Room" Interface now available! If you control-left click on any item, item reference (vendors, quests) or item link (chat), a UI panel will appear showing your character wearing that item. You can then use the same command (control-left click) on additional items to add to the preview appearance. In addition, the Auction House now has a checkbox in the upper right-hand corner; if checked, any item you click on within the Auction House will automatically be previewed on your character.
    * Need Before Greed and Group Loot options have been improved. The rolling window that appears when an item of the threshold and above is looted now has three buttons: a Need button (the dice), a Greed button (the coin), and a close button. Any players who select Need will get a chance to roll first for the item, with the high roller winning. If no one selects Need, all characters who selected Greed will then roll, with the highest roll winning the item. If everyone closes the window, the item becomes lootable by anyone in the group.
    * You can now disable the slow scrolling of text when you are receiving a new quest.
    * Opening the overhead map will now "ping" your location your map (to make it easier to notice your location when there are many friendlies nearby on the overhead map).
    * The overhead map now displays a directional icon for your character.
    * Spell effects that stack multiple times on a character will now display a number in the bottom corner indicating how many times the effect has stacked. For example, if a player has had the Sunder Armor ability used on them three times, the Sunder Armor effect icon will display a 3 in the corner.
    * A confirmation dialog is now shown when you choose to make an Inn your home.
    * Using /random will now send the text to your party or raid wherever they are instead of the local area around the player that used /random.
    * When in a raid group, the group you are in will now appear above your name next to your portrait.
    * Mail recipient name completion now works with offline guild members even if you are not showing them in the guild UI.
    * Guild ranks and player notes are now filtered by the profanity filter.
    * Quest rewards are now linked in chat like other items gained.
    * You can now use the Escape key to exit out of pop up dialogues.
    * Fixed lua error when relinking poor and standard quality items from loot messages.
    * Consumable items on the action bar will now always show the number remaining, even if there are none in your inventory.
    * You can create the directory Interface\Icons, and any 32x32 .blp or .tga files you put in there will be available in the icon list for your macros.
    * Pet spells in macros are now supported, both using /cast and using CastSpellByName().
    * If you omit the rank of a spell in /cast or CastSpellByName(), it will use the highest rank of the spell which you know.
    * While it will still be possible to override files in Interface/FrameXML, doing so is discouraged (and is likely to become impossible in a future release). Significant API additions are being made to eliminate the need for such direct FrameXML changes.
    * You will now be able to list .lua files directly in the addon .toc file.
    * The SetPoint() and SetAllPoints() script functions can take an actual frame instead of a frame name.
    * Addon-specific Saved Variables!
          o Each addon's saved variables will be saved in the file WTF\Account\{accountname}\SavedVariables\{addonname}.lua, and will only be loaded when the addon is loaded.

            IMPORTANT: The first time you enter the game with this change, you must make sure all your addons are enabled, or their saved variables will be lost! If you accidentally do this once, you can recover by quitting the game, moving your backup SavedVariables.lua into place and restarting the game with addons enabled.

    * Addon Loading On Demand!
          o If you add the following line to your addon's .toc file, it will not be loaded at the normal load time, it will instead be dynamically loaded upon request:

            ## LoadOnDemand: 1

            You can query to see if an addon is loaded by using the new IsAddOnLoaded("addonname") function, and you can load an addon dynamically using the LoadAddOn("addonname") function. This function returns true if the addon is loaded successfully, and can be safely and efficiently called even if the addon is already loaded.

            For your convenience, the function UIParentLoadAddOn("addonname") is provided which will attempt to load the addon and pop up an error message if it failed to load for any reason.

            Once an addon is loaded, the ADDON_LOADED event is sent, with arg1 set to the name of the addon. An addon can listen for that event, and when it recieves that event with it's own name, it can safely access its saved variables.

            An important thing to note is that when an addon is loaded dynamically, it doesn't have access to any of the virtual frame templates that are defined by FrameXML, including font definitions.

    * New Scripting Functions
          o debugprofilestart() - starts a timer for profiling during debugging.
          o millis = debugprofilestop() - return the time in milliseconds since the last call to debugprofilestart()
    * New UI Element Member Functions
          o handlerFunction = Frame:GetScript("handler") - (for handlers like "OnShow", "OnEnter", etc) which returns the current event handler for a frame.
          o Frame:SetScript("handler", function) - sets the action/event handler for a frame (or removes it with a nil function)
          o Frame:SetBackdrop(nil) / Frame:SetBackdrop({bgFile = "bgFile", edgeFile = "edgeFile", tile = false, tileSize = 0, edgeSize = 32, insets = { left = 0, right = 0, top = 0, bottom = 0 }}) (Note: This is a table argument)
          o FontString:SetFont("font", size [, "flags"]).
          o StatusBar:SetStatusBarTexture("file" [, "layer"])
          o lines = ScrollingMessageFrame:GetMaxLines()
          o ScrollingMessageFrame:SetMaxLines(lines)
          o ScrollingMessageFrame:EnableFading([isEnabled]) (Defaults to true)
          o ScrollingMessageFrame:SetFadeDuration(seconds)
          o ScrollingMessageFrame:SetTimeVisible(seconds)
          o ScrollingMessageFrame:Clear()
          o lines = EditBox:GetHistoryLines()
          o EditBox:SetHistoryLines(lines)
          o EditBox:SetIgnoreArrows([isIgnored]) (Defaults to true)
          o r,g,b,a = FontString:GetTextColor()
    * Addon Saved Variables
          o SavedVariables will no longer drop stored numbers to single precision.
          o Infinite/Nan values no longer cause corrupted SavedVariables.lua file. (Written as nils with comment)
    * Chat and Combat Logging
          o The script functions ChatFrameLog() and ToggleCombatLogFileWrite() are obsolete.
          o Added script function: isLogging=LoggingChat([newState]) (Returns new state (or current state if no argument))
          o Added script function: isLogging=LoggingCombat([newState]) (Returns new state (or current state if no argument))
          o New slash command /chatlog toggles chat logging (/combatlog toggles combat logging)
          o The file for the chat log is Logs\WoWChatLog.txt and the file for the combat log is Logs\WoWCombatLog.txt
          o Chat and combat log files will be appended to rather than overwritten.
          o You now receive combat log messages and damage feedback when you are being attacked by creatures you can't see.
          o If you call a tamed Deepmoss Hatchling, you are no longer notified that you hatched.
          o Fixed disconnection caused by relinking an item in a different locale than that of your client.
          o Looted items now always show their names in the appropriate quality color.

World Environment

    * The Ranazjar Isle sub-area has been added off the northwest coast of Desolace. The Ranazjar Isle puzzle piece now properly pops when you venture there.
    * Entering the zeppelin towers at Durotar and Grom'gol Base Camp no longer incorrectly flags you as being in the Valley of Strength.
    * Argent Dawn, Timbermaw, Zandalar and Arathi Basin vendors now show you their entire inventory regardless of current reputation, allowing players to peruse their full range of wares. The items in question now require the appropriate reputation level to make use of them.
    * Some of the ship and zeppelin paths have been modified.
    * Gor'tesh and Grol the Destroyer should no longer stay in evade mode indefinitely.
    * A new inn has been added to the Grom'gol Base Camp in Stranglethorn Vale at the base of the zeppelin tower.
    * The Champion's Hall and the Hall of Legends have new load screens.
    * Some Horde quest NPCs were moved to new locations to promote more intuitive quest flow: Storm Shadowhoof who was previously at Bloodvenom Falls in Felwood has been moved to Everlook. Witch Doctor Mau'ari who was previously in Orgrimmar has been moved to Everlook.
    * Scorpids above level 10 now drop more valuable parts than they did previously.
    * Rare Felwood creatures should now have loot.
    * Twilight's Hammer creatures in Silithus can now be pickpocketed.
    * Zone bound items, such as the Gordok Courtyard Key, will no longer leave your inventory if you are a ghost outside their intended zone. Reviving in a zone outside the item's listed zone binding will still cause the item to disappear, however.
    * Pelturas Whitemoon's faction has been fixed; the NPC is now properly associated with Darnassus.
    * Narm Faulk is now a part of the Ironforge Faction.
    * Hadoken Swiftstrider now has gossip text.
    * Ferra can now be skinned.
    * Fixed a typo in Ogunaro Wolfrunner's greeting to those who are not yet friendly with Orgrimmar.
    * Fixed a typo on a signpost in Western Plaguelands.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: MrHat on August 18, 2005, 07:13:38 PM
It's not enough to warrant the 2 months or so.

Plus:  as was always intended.

Edit: I'd like to see Righ's take on the hunter changes.

Double Edit:  Thanks for the grief title, we're known for our maturity out here. 


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Paelos on August 18, 2005, 07:19:16 PM
Dungeon that's not 40 people, good.
Warrior nerfs, bad.
Dressing room feature, good.
Helping hunters, bad.
Trying to fix where people /afk out of bad WSG's, we'll see.
Battleground holiday "objectives", very very bad. Unless the objective is kill a lot of the other side.

Overall, depending on how good the new dungeon is, I give this patch a D+. It may pass if the dungeon rocks my socks.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Viin on August 18, 2005, 08:03:34 PM
Quote
* Tauren can now ride wolves if they learn the wolfriding ability.

Poor doggies! :heartbreak:


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Trippy on August 18, 2005, 09:56:53 PM
Quote
* Tauren can now ride wolves if they learn the wolfriding ability.
Poor doggies! :heartbreak:
Indeed. The wolves already look small with Orcs riding them. Now it'll be like a cow trying to ride a little pony.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Fabricated on August 18, 2005, 10:55:11 PM
Dungeon that's not 40 people, good.
Warrior nerfs, bad.
Dressing room feature, good.
Helping hunters, bad.
Trying to fix where people /afk out of bad WSG's, we'll see.
Battleground holiday "objectives", very very bad. Unless the objective is kill a lot of the other side.

Overall, depending on how good the new dungeon is, I give this patch a D+. It may pass if the dungeon rocks my socks.
It's almost worth it since I can now use my timed abilties and bounce to a different stance. I dunno if I've ever counterattacked more than 30 times with retaliation anyway.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Evil Elvis on August 18, 2005, 10:59:14 PM
http://www.remorseless.org/images/content/arathihighlandsrewards.jpg

http://www.remorseless.org/images/content/arathihighlandsrewards2.jpg



I'm a mage, and caster itemization has been a nagging point for me.  The 2h staff is so-so, but it's stats aren't much better than the mageblade, and that's a 1h weapon.  Comparing the difference between the two to the difference between that of The Unstoppable Force and MC melee weapons, I still don't think we're getting the goods.

I'm not wowed with the dagger either.  If they had at least put some int on it, It'd be fine, but we're again forced to give up quite a bit in stats for the damage.  I guess it's of if you're a priest who likes to solo farm, since they can't wear the mageblade.

The boots and waist are decent for rares, but not as good as the AV belt or PVP suit boots.  The shoulderpads are very nice, though.  Better than the rank 10 pvp shoulderpads.  Kind of interested what the set bonus is though.

The melee trinket looks alright.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Zane0 on August 18, 2005, 11:29:07 PM
Amusing how the littlest of entries can mean so much; I imagine that there will be much debate over semantics.

Quote
When you have more than one transformation aura (Orb of Deception, Noggenfogger, etc.), the last one applied is the one that is shown.
[/i] Nooo. (No more ant-sized characters taking flags for laughs..  On second thought, this is probably for the best)

Quote
* A level 50 class quest has been added for the Rogue (Lord Ravenholdt in Ravenholdt Manor), Priest (Greta Mosshoof in Felwood), Mage (Archmage Xylem in Azshara), and Hunter (Ogtinc in Azshara).
[/i] Hmm.  I suppose this is a step in the right direction, although most who care are level 60 now.

Quote
You can now no longer avoid Onyxia's confuse effect by jumping or moving erratically.
[/i] This is trouble if by 'confuse' they mean her fear, and by 'moving erratically' they mean walking backwards.  Guilds -at least ours- have been experiencing some difficulty with her aggro since last patch already, so this little change will probably make 'ol O a bit more interesting again, I s'pose.  Sigh, say hello to hot, burning lava in the face, again.

Quote
* New "Dressing Room" Interface now available! If you control-left click on any item, item reference (vendors, quests) or item link (chat), a UI panel will appear showing your character wearing that item. You can then use the same command (control-left click) on additional items to add to the preview appearance. In addition, the Auction House now has a checkbox in the upper right-hand corner; if checked, any item you click on within the Auction House will automatically be previewed on your character.
[/i] This is a cool feature. (It had to be said!)

Quote
* Using /random will now send the text to your party or raid wherever they are instead of the local area around the player that used /random.
[/i] No more angry rival guilds polluting one's rolls!

Quote
* Argent Dawn, Timbermaw, Zandalar and Arathi Basin vendors now show you their entire inventory regardless of current reputation, allowing players to peruse their full range of wares. The items in question now require the appropriate reputation level to make use of them.
[/i] Well, that means no more stupid searching the internet for new/old faction rewards.  Speaking of which, does anyone know of a centralized WoW guide site?  The Blizzard forums just don't do the job.

Quote
Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza

The Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza is a grand new event set along the coasts of Stranglethorn Vale. Early on the appointed day, friendly neighborhood goblins will visit Ironforge and Orgrimmar to inform aspiring anglers of the grand tournament and give instructions. At the appropriate time, the shout will ring out across Stranglethorn to bait your hooks and cast your lines!
[/i] I am psyched about this!  I've got 300 fishing skill, a large collection of +100 lures, and the best 'pole money can buy- the Tastyfish will be mine.  Regardless of this event's success, I enjoy how Blizzard adds one of them into every patch; at least recently.  Sure, Darkmoon essentially sucked, but one has to give them credit for trying.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: SurfD on August 18, 2005, 11:37:56 PM
* Damage absorption no longer protects against falling, drowning, or fatigue damage
* Damage absorption is now applied before damage splitting effects.

Hunh?  So is this a priest only nerf?  or does this affect stuff like Invuln Pots, Mana Shield and that Voidwalker Sacrifice thing as well?

* Cats can now learn Stealth. In addition to being unseen, they receive a damage bonus for their first attack coming out of stealth.

FUCK.....FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCKITY FUCKITY FUCK.  Nice move assholes, like nightelves werent a pain in the ass all ready, now we are going to have the hunter AND their fucking pet jumping out of stealth at you everywhere.

* Only spells and abilities that target enemy units will cancel the World Enlarger effect.

Hehehhehe, dwarf priest healbots are going to be a BITCH to target now.

Oh yeah...........

WHERE IS THE FUCKING MAGE LOVE YOUR COCKGOBLINS


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Ironwood on August 19, 2005, 01:24:20 AM
Excellent.  Fuck weapon switchers in their tiny cold little asses.


 


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Zetor on August 19, 2005, 01:26:22 AM
What Ironwood said.

This should also help level the playing field somewhat between a rogue with 10 ping and one with 600 (ie. me)

The new rewards from ZG and AB are love. I do worry about AV not going up ever after the patch, though..


-- Z.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Merusk on August 19, 2005, 07:07:21 AM
I don't get the hunter hate from Paelos.   I understand the NE hunter hate from SurfD, though, Aimed Shot from stealth can really fucksomeone up.. even moreso now with the Humanoid hunting talent.  (Although I never bothered with my pet in PVP, it dies too quick with me being MM spec.)

My warrior is going to miss weapon switching, though.  No more 2hder for Overpower since I'm a Fury-based Dual Wield type.

The hunter changes all around look to be pretty good.  My brodband access dies tomorrow and I've got my Brother .I-L's 30th tonight so I won't get to check them out and form a real opinion based on use.  I await other hunters sharing the experiences here, since the WoW boards are just full of whiny sand-filled vaginas.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Dren on August 19, 2005, 07:26:40 AM
I'll be interested in the new Pally power.  I think I know the specifics, but only trying it in game will tell the tale.  Yes, much hate will be generated for the Paladin again just by even mentioning them in patch notes and seeming to give them love.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Righ on August 19, 2005, 07:26:56 AM
The hunter changes are pretty awful actually. First, there's the equipment changes that will need to be made to accomodate the talent changes. Next there is the reduction in damage in the marksman talent tree to compensate for increased damsge derived from talent improvements in the survival and beastmaster talent trees.

Hunters were a very crit focused class. The talent in marksman called Mortal Shots increased hunter critical strikes by 50% such that hunter criticals were good for 250% of normal hits. While this was higher than for other classes, hunters need 53 agility to gain 1% increase in critical strike chance. The 1.7 patch reduces mortal strike to 230% without any place to gain increased critical chance. 20% critical rate is a high level for a hunter.

A hunter that is going to be raiding needs to have the skill Hawk Eye. This increases range from 35 yards to 41 yards. This previously dictated a largely marksman oriented build due to its position at the second highest level of the talent tree. In 1.7 it has been swapped with barrage. This means, that rather than take the paltry 40 attack power (3dps) increase in trueshot aura, we can drop all the later marksman skills and look elsewhere to recover dps. That would be the survival tree, where Lightning Reflexes increases agility gained from items by 15%.

With my current gear, I can recover most of the dps lost for normal attacks, but now my crits are 200%, not 250% or even 230%. To gain back some of that loss, I'm going to need a whole new gear selection, focusing on agility. That's a lot of hunters looking for groups, and not so many other classes. Hunters already had enough problems in that department, now nearly every PvE oriented hunter needs to run most of the major instances again, while other classes reallly dont care to thanks.

Pretty much whichever way you skin it, the end-game PvE hunter has lost significant dps. The classic beastmaster PvP build is now trash now that spirit bond is a lowly regen rather than a bursty heal. However, we have lots more variety in what we can do with our pets. I can train a pet up to have 120 fire resiatance, to give it more surivivability in molten core. To prevent us from being too useful, the giantstalker armor set has been nerfed to reduce the pet fire resist from 100 to 50. The problem is, I can have a 170FR pet with 5/8 giantstalker (which means I'm more than half done with MC) but the pet has spent a good proportion of its talent points, and cannot be buffed fully in armor.

What overall does this mean? It means that a hunter is EVEN BETTER at soloing from 10-60, which they were already far too good at. It means that they are less useful overall in pvp and instances in the end-game, which is really where they needed some improvement.
It's an interesting set of changes, but it really doesnt help me, or the bulk of people playing level 60 hunters. What has happened is that Blizzard have reduced the hunter effectiveness in its core competancy (ranged single target dps) and improved those areas where hunters were terrible (melee survivability and damage and pet versatility). However, it isn't like hunters suddenly became good in these areas, they just dont suck as badly.

So, hunters suck less overall, but bring less to the table.

At least I have a level 60 warrior. With 33% less defense.

Oh, and using the dressing room crashes the client every time, as does just about every addon.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Sairon on August 19, 2005, 08:02:07 AM
I think the nerf on defense was justified, it was simply to easy to become crit immune. Defense is a very very powerful modifier and will probably still be sought after.

Blizzard are also reviewing Blessing of Salvation, which has created hoards of whine posts on the paladin boards naturaly. I think it's good because Blessing of Salvation is way to good on untauntable mobs ( all hard raid bosses ). There's bosses which has been killed by loads of alliance guilds in BWL, which horde doesn't stand a chance against. I heard alliance can DPS 46% more with Blessing of Salvation than horde, and that's just wrong imo, especialy since other paladin buffs already are very powerful while also bringing cleanse to the table in PvE.

I think hunters got a great boost allround, sure mortal shot is only 30% now instead of 50% extra crit dmg, but as you said Hawk Eye was moved down to tier 3, and that makes up for that imo since it saves you 3 points in marksmanship to now spend on the other trees, which has been extremly improved. The survival tree seems great and should enhance survivability by loads in PvP. Deflection tier 1 instead of tier 3. Tier 3 survival has now 2 new talents which are heaps better than what used to be there. Tier 4 got surefoot, which seems very good on paper atleast. Sure Killer Instinct only has 3 possible trains but increases crit chance by all sources instead of just melee, making it superior to the previous talent. Lightning Reflexes is also way better than all previous options at tier 6, and Wyvern Sting is actualy tempting to pick, even if you can't have it togheter with scatter shot. And lets not forget "* Scatter Shot - Should now cancel combat mode when used." which means another trap opertunity. Also, hunters who wants crit usualy get items with straight +crit chance, agility only grants 1 AP and as you said very low crit chance anyway, better of geting +AP and +crit chance items, there's loads of them out there. In my opinion it's beefy improvement to hunters in all areas.

Overall it seems like an intresting patch, I'm a bit pissed that they changed Invulnerable Mail to complete rubbish on my Shaman though, probably gonna bank it and slap on a elements chest until I can get something decent from MC/BWL. 30 arc bars, 30 enchanted leather, 6 azerothian diamonds and 6 huge emeralds down the drain.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: HaemishM on August 19, 2005, 08:41:08 AM
Nice to see they added a new Battleground for smaller groups, and the Dressing Room sounds cool. It kind of sucks to have weapon switching nerfed like that, but I can see the reasons for it. Either make your rogue specialize or suck up the cooldown.

Yet another high-level area? How about some mid-level love, jacktards?


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Merusk on August 19, 2005, 08:45:59 AM
Hunters were a very crit focused class. The talent in marksman called Mortal Shots increased hunter critical strikes by 50% such that hunter criticals were good for 250% of normal hits. While this was higher than for other classes, hunters need 53 agility to gain 1% increase in critical strike chance. The 1.7 patch reduces mortal strike to 230% without any place to gain increased critical chance. 20% critical rate is a high level for a hunter.

Eh? I always saw the reduced chance for crits because we were 1) so damned accurate and 2) attacking from range.  Our reduced chance at crits just made sense, and crits are supposed to be 'bonus' damage.  My position has always been if you're relying on crit damage as a player or a designer, you've already lost the war. Fuck, I think crits should just go away altogether in online games because people bitch about this random-occurance stuff more than anything.  

Quote
A hunter that is going to be raiding needs to have the skill Hawk Eye. This increases range from 35 yards to 41 yards. This previously dictated a largely marksman oriented build due to its position at the second highest level of the talent tree. In 1.7 it has been swapped with barrage. This means, that rather than take the paltry 40 attack power (3dps) increase in trueshot aura, we can drop all the later marksman skills and look elsewhere to recover dps. That would be the survival tree, where Lightning Reflexes increases agility gained from items by 15%.


Trueshot rank 1 gives 40.  They revised it so the level 60 rank now gives 100.  Not that I don't think Lightning Reflexes is fantastic, but with 308 agi I won't even get an additional crit % from it. The atk power increase per point of agi isn't something I'm aware of, however, so I can't make a good comparison between the two.

Quote
With my current gear, I can recover most of the dps lost for normal attacks, but now my crits are 200%, not 250% or even 230%. To gain back some of that loss, I'm going to need a whole new gear selection, focusing on agility.


What were you focusing on before?  Every item with +agi I can get I've gotten. I don't have full beaststalkers yet, and will never see Giant or Dragon stalkers, like most hunters, however.  

Quote
Pretty much whichever way you skin it, the end-game PvE hunter has lost significant dps. The classic beastmaster PvP build is now trash now that spirit bond is a lowly regen rather than a bursty heal. However, we have lots more variety in what we can do with our pets. I can train a pet up to have 120 fire resiatance, to give it more surivivability in molten core. To prevent us from being too useful, the giantstalker armor set has been nerfed to reduce the pet fire resist from 100 to 50. The problem is, I can have a 170FR pet with 5/8 giantstalker (which means I'm more than half done with MC) but the pet has spent a good proportion of its talent points, and cannot be buffed fully in armor.

You're a PvE 'endgame' hunter, though, and it's becoming apparent Blizz sees PvP as the more important engame.  Eyonix has always focused more on the PvP aspects of things, so that's not a surprise.  That's why I think Survival got such a boost vs Beast or Marks.  Survival hunters were much more prevalant than SB hunters so they bitched loudest.  Bliz is as victim to caving to whining as any MMO company has been.  Perhaps even moreso, since I seem to recall hearing of similar problems plaguing their other games when Bnet kiddies would bitch enough to get a D2 class or WC/SC race overpowered/ nerfed.  It's almost like it's part of the company culture.

Quote
What overall does this mean? It means that a hunter is EVEN BETTER at soloing from 10-60, which they were already far too good at. It means that they are less useful overall in pvp and instances in the end-game, which is really where they needed some improvement.
It's an interesting set of changes, but it really doesnt help me, or the bulk of people playing level 60 hunters.

I agree this makes hunters even better soloers.. which is crazy. (My warrior is 55 now and I flopped back to my hunter to compare.  Worlds Apart)  But I think you mean it doesn't help the bulk of PvE endgame hunters.  Most hunters I know retire within a few months of hitting 60 or are relegated to farming because 1) no guild wants them, as there's too damn many of them  2) Blizzard has NO idea what to do with the class.  It's a new concept in an old model.  Nobody's done them before for them to steal ideas and improve them. They're having to do it themselves, and they're still not sure what to do with them.  3) It's hard to be a good hunter in small-group PvP.  With the deadzone and lack of any melee dps most folks know how to WTFPWN a hunter in everything except large-group PvP and can do it pretty quick.  Judicious use of feign and traps is more effort than some folks want, so they go and roll up something different.

Quote
What has happened is that Blizzard have reduced the hunter effectiveness in its core competancy (ranged single target dps) and improved those areas where hunters were terrible (melee survivability and damage and pet versatility). However, it isn't like hunters suddenly became good in these areas, they just dont suck as badly.

I'm not so sure ranged single-target DPS WILL be reduced. Instead we'll just be forced into a specific build in order to achieve it.  That's not good, but it's better than an overall nerf.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: angry.bob on August 19, 2005, 08:49:19 AM
Blizzard are also reviewing Blessing of Salvation, which has created hoards of whine posts on the paladin boards naturaly. I think it's good because Blessing of Salvation is way to good on untauntable mobs ( all hard raid bosses ). There's bosses which has been killed by loads of alliance guilds in BWL, which horde doesn't stand a chance against. I heard alliance can DPS 46% more with Blessing of Salvation than horde, and that's just wrong imo, especialy since other paladin buffs already are very powerful while also bringing cleanse to the table in PvE.

Paladins are the most fucked class in the game. For real. And there were some paladin nerfs in this patch that they never even hinted at, especially the nerf to Lawbringer armor. BoS is one to the few things Paladins have going for them, and the fact that it's Tigole of all people cunting about it means that it shouldn't be touched. At this point the entire class just needs redesigned. The class has been thoroughly broken since the "fix" to SoC.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Paelos on August 19, 2005, 09:07:29 AM
To answer the hunter hate, I don't like anything that will encourage more people to roll up hunters. They are most popular group and also the single class that I now refuse to add to any group I do if I don't know them. No, I don't care if you think you keep your pet in check, all you have to do is screw up once and its wipe-town.

So put the bunny in the box, k?


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Merusk on August 19, 2005, 09:10:31 AM
To answer the hunter hate, I don't like anything that will encourage more people to roll up hunters. They are most popular group and also the single class that I now refuse to add to any group I do if I don't know them. No, I don't care if you think you keep your pet in check, all you have to do is screw up once and its wipe-town.

So put the bunny in the box, k?

Hate on popularity I understand. The pets are fine when they 1) turn growl the fuck off in instances and 2) keep them on passive at all times and 3) Dismiss the pet when running through 'tricky' areas like the egg room, or jumping around areas like folks do in BRD/ LBRS.   Those are the most common fuckups I've seen.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: MrHat on August 19, 2005, 09:38:13 AM
To answer the hunter hate, I don't like anything that will encourage more people to roll up hunters. They are most popular group and also the single class that I now refuse to add to any group I do if I don't know them. No, I don't care if you think you keep your pet in check, all you have to do is screw up once and its wipe-town.

So put the bunny in the box, k?

Hate on popularity I understand. The pets are fine when they 1) turn growl the fuck off in instances and 2) keep them on passive at all times and 3) Dismiss the pet when running through 'tricky' areas like the egg room, or jumping around areas like folks do in BRD/ LBRS.   Those are the most common fuckups I've seen.

I absolutely HATE that every second class I see is a hunter on the alliance side.  It's fucking ridiculous.

Oh, and even as a hunter, I would never ever ever want a hunter in my group.  Not because they can't bring anything to the table, but because 9 times outta 10 that person is a dildomunchkin.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Merusk on August 19, 2005, 09:50:56 AM
Also agreed.  I thought he was hating on the class rather than the players, though.   Having that # of hunters does make IF spam amusing, though.  Last night "LFM for UBRS, all classes EXCEPT HUNTERS WE HAVE 3!"  Followed by 3-4"60 Hunter LFG any instance" Not the first time it's happened either.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: AOFanboi on August 19, 2005, 10:21:16 AM
Well, enough fixes there for me to resub at least. I hate missing "show me your wares" and accidentally switch home. And I hate waiting for the text for a mission I've done ten times already to slowly come into view before I am allowed to accept it. Both fixed.

Yes, minor, but irritating.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Zane0 on August 19, 2005, 11:09:07 AM
Quote
it's becoming apparent Blizz sees PvP as the more important engame
Can you be so sure?  If you make a tally, there are three high level boss instances, and two outdoor boss encounters compared to three PvP instances.  There's certainly been a recent emphasis on PvP with the opening of battlegrounds, but instead of continuing the trend, this patch seems to give a fairly balanced helping to both PvE and PvP.

Even if that weren't the case, Blizzard would be unlikely to emphasize PvP in the long term when half of their servers are dedicated (at least in theory) to PvE.  I'd say that would validate the aforementioned hunter concerns, as both playstyles are fairly popular and should be accomodated.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 19, 2005, 12:24:19 PM
Quote
A level 50 class quest has been added for the Rogue (Lord Ravenholdt in Ravenholdt Manor)

Did they ever fix the end of the quest for the badges (around 28th level or so)? If not, tacking another one on in pretty weak.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Dren on August 19, 2005, 01:01:54 PM
Quote
A level 50 class quest has been added for the Rogue (Lord Ravenholdt in Ravenholdt Manor)

Did they ever fix the end of the quest for the badges (around 28th level or so)? If not, tacking another one on in pretty weak.

I'm guessing this quest IS tacked on to the end of that one.  I'm guessing it is the next task to raise you reputation with that clan more.  I have no idea what that reputation will gain you, but there you have it.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: WayAbvPar on August 19, 2005, 03:53:07 PM
My point is that there WAS no end to that one- you raise your faction, and exactly dick happens.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Sairon on August 19, 2005, 05:06:01 PM
Blizzard are also reviewing Blessing of Salvation, which has created hoards of whine posts on the paladin boards naturaly. I think it's good because Blessing of Salvation is way to good on untauntable mobs ( all hard raid bosses ). There's bosses which has been killed by loads of alliance guilds in BWL, which horde doesn't stand a chance against. I heard alliance can DPS 46% more with Blessing of Salvation than horde, and that's just wrong imo, especialy since other paladin buffs already are very powerful while also bringing cleanse to the table in PvE.

Paladins are the most fucked class in the game. For real. And there were some paladin nerfs in this patch that they never even hinted at, especially the nerf to Lawbringer armor. BoS is one to the few things Paladins have going for them, and the fact that it's Tigole of all people cunting about it means that it shouldn't be touched. At this point the entire class just needs redesigned. The class has been thoroughly broken since the "fix" to SoC.

It's not about paladins here, I understand that you dislike BoS changed for worse but it's currently rideclously overpowered in high end raid encounters, horde has no equivelent. 30% more possible DPS on untauntable bosses makes a huge diffrence, especialy when you have blessing of kings which increases all stats with 10% as well. Alliance does have it a lot easier because of this, which easily can be seen if you look at alliance progress vs horde progress in BWL. I'm all for paladins geting something in return for BoS though.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Righ on August 19, 2005, 05:26:45 PM
Trueshot rank 1 gives 40.  They revised it so the level 60 rank now gives 100.  Not that I don't think Lightning Reflexes is fantastic, but with 308 agi I won't even get an additional crit % from it. The atk power increase per point of agi isn't something I'm aware of, however, so I can't make a good comparison between the two.

One agility is two ranged attack power. 14 ranged attack power is 1 DPS increase. DPS increases are multiplied by the speed of the weapon and added as a per shot damage bonus.

Quote
What were you focusing on before?  Every item with +agi I can get I've gotten. I don't have full beaststalkers yet, and will never see Giant or Dragon stalkers, like most hunters, however. 

I am currently using a heap of +crit gear, even if it means a (slightly) lower agility/attack power. With 250% critical hits and what I mentioned above, it (1) increases burst damage for PvP (2) averages out at more damage when used in conjection with a slow bow. Yes, I can do more damage using Bloodseeker (32 DPS Korrak quest crossbow from AV with 3.3s attack) than with Strikers Mark (40 DPS epic bow from Magmadar in MC with 2.5s attack) in Molten Core.

Quote
You're a PvE 'endgame' hunter, though, and it's becoming apparent Blizz sees PvP as the more important engame.

My primary build is for ranged damage dealing in Molten Core. I'm 2/8 into Giantstalker, and am using using a mix of other stuff (beaststalker, DM crit items). However, after Molten Core, my primary interest (even if it doent happen enough on Earthen Ring) is Alterac Valley. My build has such VITAL PvP talents as scatter shot. To retain Scatter Shot after 1.7 requires forfeiting the improved survival skills. Furthermore, I want to play to my strengths in PvP, not buff my survivability. I couldnt care less if the two seconds of extra life I get when being ganked by rogues means I get to survive because somebody comes to my rescue in time. I'd rather die, get a free rez at a GY with full health and mana, and come back at range to drop the rogues. It'll take me as long to bandage and drink as it will to rez and run. 90% of what is available in survival is worthless in PvP because I shouldn't be in melee for anything more than a wing clip.

Quote
I'm not so sure ranged single-target DPS WILL be reduced. Instead we'll just be forced into a specific build in order to achieve it.  That's not good, but it's better than an overall nerf.

I've been running numbers on several builds using a bunch of available hunter equipment. As far as I can tell there is no way to lose less than 4% of ranged damage.

The good news is that Blizzard again confirmed that RP-PVP realms will come after 1.7 is launched. I'll me more than happy to start from scratch there. Hunter won't be my primary. Perhaps I'll pick an even more populous class such as warrior, shaman, rogue or paladin just to piss Paelos off.

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/weeklyactivity.php


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Paelos on August 19, 2005, 06:12:25 PM
Warriors aren't really common Righ, unless you are Horde I guess. Then again WoW would be a better place if half the hunters rolled up mages/warlocks, priests, or warriors as their mains (aka the must-have classes in any group). Hell, I could make an effective 5 man out of just those classes. Hunters, rogues, and druids are musts in big raids, but in smaller groups they are just nice fillers.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Righ on August 19, 2005, 06:25:28 PM
Here's all Alliance:

More warriors than hunters (http://www.warcraftrealms.com/weeklyactivity.php?serverid=-1&factionid=3)

I admit your server is fucked up:

Look, still a bazillion more rogues. I bet they're Elves. With boobies. (http://www.warcraftrealms.com/weeklyactivity.php?serverid=11&factionid=3)

However, warriors are really common. More so than hunters but not as common as the rogue. I suspect that most of the hunters have rerolled 'must have' alts. I know I have. The problem is that when in an established guild, by the time you level your 'must have' alt, the guild has recuited enough of that class too. If you are going to reroll for the intention of getting included in the end-game content, your best bet is currently still druid. The path to 60 is somewhat slow and painful, but once there, you'll be welcome in many groups, guilds and powerful in PvP.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Paelos on August 19, 2005, 06:48:52 PM
Activity stats don't really mean much to me.

I go with who has the 60s as those are most likely the mains.

As far as that goes, on the alliance side on all servers...

1st - Rogues
2nd - Hunters
3rd - close tie b/w Mages/Warriors
4th - Priests
5th - Druids
6th - Warlocks

The census (http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=-1&factionid=3&minlevel=60&maxlevel=60&servertypeid=-1)

This is basically an indicator of 1) The order of how easy these classes are to level, 2) Their fun factor, and 3) How absolutely dicked over they are in terms of balance for pvp. Obviously, it's not exact because there are outliers, but it's still a pretty fair assessment.

Fix Warlocks, dammit!


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Merusk on August 19, 2005, 07:21:08 PM
Still reading and digesting Righ's stuff.  I agree on the 'scattershot is necessary for pvp' thing, though. However, as previously mentioned a lot of hunters are retarded and thus they bitch about melee damage and go survivability.  I went Marks/ Beast initially since I'm on a PvE server and really only farm these days.

Anywho, I agree with Paelos on the census stuff.  I'd only look at the numbers for level 60s, since counting 'all classes'  grabs too many dabblers into other classes (like me) when it's so easy to get into the teens and 20s.

: From checking the WoW census servers, Hunters are the second-most populous Alliance class on PvE & RP Servers,-behind paladins- the PvP servers are what push warriors up so far.  With the nerfs they just took to weapon swapping and defense that'll change in a few weeks, I'm sure.   

If you compare both factions, it's a dead heat on pve and RP again, (a few tens separate rogues and hunters, warriors lag by a little over 100) with rogues taking a commanding lead in PvP leaving hunters in 3rd place about 800 behind warriors.

  Interesting stuff, and helps explain why hunters and rogues have such a damn hard time getting into groups.



Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Bunk on August 20, 2005, 11:16:57 AM

Helping hunters, bad.


*sigh*


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Fabricated on August 20, 2005, 01:33:34 PM
IMO there are a shitload more hunters than warriors.

Hell, most of the people in my guild have a level 60 hunter, and on proudmoore at least you see a lot of "LF Anyone else to fill in X raid/5man, NO HUNTERS PLZKTHX". I get whispers asking me to do a Maru run every time I enter IF with my 55 Warrior.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Paelos on August 20, 2005, 02:01:43 PM
Yeah, it may not be overall, but on Proudmoore, it's just dumb. WAY too many hunters in comparison to their utility in the endgame. Warriors are starting to pick up in population and even out. Rogues are still a dime a dozen and pallys are everywhere. Plus they are Aussies, which I used to like until I had to deal with their f'd time zone.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Fabricated on August 20, 2005, 02:12:28 PM
Yeah, it may not be overall, but on Proudmoore, it's just dumb. WAY too many hunters in comparison to their utility in the endgame. Warriors are starting to pick up in population and even out. Rogues are still a dime a dozen and pallys are everywhere. Plus they are Aussies, which I used to like until I had to deal with their f'd time zone.
I hate aussies in general since every one I've grouped with has been a dumbass. I play at weird times anyway (usually rather late at night), so they make up the majority of the people playing when I'm on.

I did the Sunken Temple just recently with some of my guildmates, and we had a bit of a weird group. 2 level 60 Hunters, My friend's level 60 pally, my warrior, and a level 60 Warlock. That instance fucking sucked, but we only wiped once, and that was only because we missed cleaning out a single group of dragonkin before fighting that stupid shade (which kept me banished for a good 90% of the fight).

Point is, I actually liked having the 2 hunters in our group. They aren't a plate wearing class, but they're hard enough to live for a bit if they over-aggro. I think we would've had a harder time had we had a priest or mage instead of one of the hunters.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Calantus on August 20, 2005, 02:54:16 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. As an aussie my advice to the world is to NEVER play on the "Unofficial Australian Server". I don't know why, but they are always full of extreme fucktards.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Pococurante on August 23, 2005, 12:12:03 PM
I like things like the fishing extravaganza - nice to see content that makes a richer environment.  My warlock and hunter both love this patch.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Paelos on August 23, 2005, 12:19:35 PM
I'm curious about the fishing thing. Is it like the fair where it happens monthly? Or is it like Children's Week where it's once a year? Or does it not repeat at all?


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Pococurante on August 23, 2005, 01:13:33 PM
Sounds like a weekly thing, perhaps several times a week.  Patch wasn't clear on times just that one has to keep an ear out for town criers in the major cities.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Threash on August 24, 2005, 02:23:32 PM
Yeah, it may not be overall, but on Proudmoore, it's just dumb. WAY too many hunters in comparison to their utility in the endgame. Warriors are starting to pick up in population and even out. Rogues are still a dime a dozen and pallys are everywhere. Plus they are Aussies, which I used to like until I had to deal with their f'd time zone.
I hate aussies in general since every one I've grouped with has been a dumbass. I play at weird times anyway (usually rather late at night), so they make up the majority of the people playing when I'm on.

I did the Sunken Temple just recently with some of my guildmates, and we had a bit of a weird group. 2 level 60 Hunters, My friend's level 60 pally, my warrior, and a level 60 Warlock. That instance fucking sucked, but we only wiped once, and that was only because we missed cleaning out a single group of dragonkin before fighting that stupid shade (which kept me banished for a good 90% of the fight).

Point is, I actually liked having the 2 hunters in our group. They aren't a plate wearing class, but they're hard enough to live for a bit if they over-aggro. I think we would've had a harder time had we had a priest or mage instead of one of the hunters.

You did a low 50s instance with a buncha level 60s, of course it doesnt matter what class you bring in that case.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: kaid on August 25, 2005, 06:51:15 AM
Bah my group of 5 hunters did sunken temple at level 55 so yes hunters can work fine in there. Infact its one of our better dungeons due to track to make sure you got all the dragonkin and its so wide open in there. Now places like blackrock spire make me stabby due to the cramped areas and lack of good line of sight for ranged attacks.

kaid


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: MrHat on August 25, 2005, 06:54:12 AM
Bah my group of 5 hunters did sunken temple at level 55 so yes hunters can work fine in there. Infact its one of our better dungeons due to track to make sure you got all the dragonkin and its so wide open in there. Now places like blackrock spire make me stabby due to the cramped areas and lack of good line of sight for ranged attacks.

kaid

ST can be done at 48-52.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: kaid on August 25, 2005, 07:01:12 AM
We could clear everything but the dragon at about 52. The dragon just hit a bit to hard for the pets at that level. The new pet upgrades with the added armor should really help that out. The biggest problem with hunters is our pets generally lag behind us by a level or two due to them not getting quest xp. So an even up fight actually is hitting your pet harder than normal. The extra 10% armor mitigation and good nature resists would have made the dragon fight cake for us at that level.

kaid


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: MrHat on August 25, 2005, 07:38:38 AM
We could clear everything but the dragon at about 52. The dragon just hit a bit to hard for the pets at that level. The new pet upgrades with the added armor should really help that out. The biggest problem with hunters is our pets generally lag behind us by a level or two due to them not getting quest xp. So an even up fight actually is hitting your pet harder than normal. The extra 10% armor mitigation and good nature resists would have made the dragon fight cake for us at that level.

kaid

Good point.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Merusk on August 25, 2005, 07:59:59 AM
Huh.. they must have done something to pet xp then.  My pet was only ever a max of 1/2 level behind me for the length of my hunter's career.   Of course, I often played w/o more than a bubble or so of rest xp, so I wasn't getting the bonus xp that'd push me that much farther past my pet.  Pets take much less xp than players per level by design so they don't fall too far behind because of quest xp.  Rest xp isn't accounted for, though.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: kaid on August 25, 2005, 08:27:52 AM
Its not that pet xp was changed its that I am ALWAYS in a 5 man group. We blow through quests VERY VERY VERY quickly so we tend to do very little grinding and mostly questing. This is kinda bad on the pets because you start zooming up and they lag a couple levels behind.

If you only solo or duo then yes the pet has a much better chance of staying at your level because the rate you can plow through quests is a good bit slower. Even still if you work quests at all at the higher levels generally you will be a level or two ahead of your pet as you near 60.

kaid


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Phred on August 25, 2005, 02:15:52 PM
Its not that pet xp was changed its that I am ALWAYS in a 5 man group. We blow through quests VERY VERY VERY quickly so we tend to do very little grinding and mostly questing. This is kinda bad on the pets because you start zooming up and they lag a couple levels behind.

If you only solo or duo then yes the pet has a much better chance of staying at your level because the rate you can plow through quests is a good bit slower. Even still if you work quests at all at the higher levels generally you will be a level or two ahead of your pet as you near 60.

kaid

I soloed my second hunter to 60 and tried to keep 2 pets caught up for a while. Dispite rarely having more than the previous sleep time's rest experience, and grinding a bit when I didn't feel like questing, I found typically it took 2/3 of my current level for my pet to ding, making keeping 2 pets leveled up more trouble than it was worth. Pet experience is weird atm (fix inc next patch) The pet gets the same experience you do from a kill, and in a group gets half to 1/5 that. This made leveling up low level pets insanely tedius at 60 as you had to kill things you'd get experience from with no help from the pet and it would get maybe 100-200 experience from anything a hunter can reasonably melee solo. Even with the reduced experience required for a pet to level this was insanely slow. They are changing it so the pet get's experience relative to it's level compared to what you kill so that should speed up leveling pets a bit but still the hunter has to be able to melee the thing solo because a low level pet wont be able to hold agro or damage a mob significantly higher than it.

As per the patch changes for hunters, personally I think they suck ass. Blizzard claims with the available talents we should come out 3% more dmg but most people who've done the math show more like 5% reduction in PvE raiding dps.



Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: kaid on August 26, 2005, 06:25:52 AM
Actually that really depends on the build. I have seen raiding numbers for damage with the improved aspect of the hawk mostly marksman and a smattering of survival come out well on top of where they used to be.

With improved aspect of the hawk if you use a fast bow or gun from the parses I have seen you can keep the buff on you almost constantly. That bow hurricane is a freaking chaingun with this change although the ammount of ammo you would go through scares me.

My build on test shows my damage to be very comparable. I lose a bit on the top end crits but I gain better avg damage and I crit more often with my 20 marksman 31 survival build. One nice thing is with hawkeye being so low in the marksman tree now all raiding hunters no matter their build can pick it up pretty easily. That is a HUGE boost in survival ability and long term dps for those hunters who were not cookie cutter marksman. Being able to shoot a mob from outside its max aoe range is a GOOD THING TM.

kaid


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Sogrinaugh on August 31, 2005, 11:15:40 AM
One thing not mentioned in the patch notes is a nice little mage nerf:

Lucifron got the range on his AoE curse extended to 41 yards, and Magmadar got the range on his AoE fear extended to 41 yards.  So the one tiny insignificant place in MC that the fire mage actually had an advantage has been mercilessly squashed.  Yet another indication that Thou Shall Not Have Fun, Unless He Intended It

No sand in the pussy over this, trivial encounters both, but hateful nonetheless.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Rasix on August 31, 2005, 11:20:12 AM
Isn't that somewhat of a direct hunter nerf also? My old guild had a ton of hunters that could stand a max range and plunk away with impunity. 


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: kaid on August 31, 2005, 11:41:52 AM
I found that change amusing. The reason they put hawkeye so low was so hunters could be "low maintenace" damage and stay out of aoe range. So what do they do they change the aoe range to be 41 yards so the whole shifting of hawkeye is totally moot now. Ah well in pvp the long range is still a god send.


kaid


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Shockeye on August 31, 2005, 11:54:39 AM
Quote from: Ordinn
Top In-game Issues 8/31/05 | 8/31/2005 11:09:27 AM PDT (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4691245&p=1&tmp=1#post4691245)

Hey all,

We wanted to provide you with some information on the top issues our GM team is dealing with right now.

Thanks,

CMs

Raid IDs

Some players are currently bound to a raid ID and are unable to get a new ID. If those players have switched guilds and need to obtain a new ID in order to participate in raids, they can petition a GM. The GMs will note the player account, and if after 6 days from the petition time the player still has the same ID, the GM team will reset the ID. We have a potential fix for this planned for patch 1.7.

Warsong Gulch

We see a lot of complaints / petitions about players using the terrain in front of the Horde graveyard to go up and down the hill. Since both factions can run up and down this hill without any help or cheats, and it neither hinders nor gives the other side an advantage, GMs will not be punishing players for this issue.

Players using The Judge’s Gavel for the proc is not an exploit. However, the proc has been changed for 1.7 to a stun that will not make players drop the flag.

Another WSG issue is Alliance priests mind controlling a Horde flag carrier, then having a paladin cast protection shield on them; this makes the Horde flag carrier drop the flag. This technique will not work after patch 1.7. Until that time, GMs will not be punishing players for using this technique.

Cascading Raid Instances

If a guild is found using any methods to circumvent a raid timer to kill a boss in any raid instance faster then the raid timer allows per week, they will be punished for exploiting game mechanics. Basically, if a guild kills Ragnaros twice in less than six days from the start of the raid ID, they’ve exploited.

Update: changed the Cascading Raid Instance for all the players who posted about it below.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: AOFanboi on August 31, 2005, 12:31:15 PM
My old guild had a ton of hunters that could stand a max range and plunk away with impunity. 
Otherwise known as "perching" when you can range-attack a mob that cannot fight back. Most games either eventually ban people for it, remove the "perches" from the landscape, or make mobs able to hit perchers. Looks like WoW did the latter in this case.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Righ on August 31, 2005, 12:50:55 PM
My old guild had a ton of hunters that could stand a max range and plunk away with impunity. 
Otherwise known as "perching" when you can range-attack a mob that cannot fight back. Most games either eventually ban people for it, remove the "perches" from the landscape, or make mobs able to hit perchers. Looks like WoW did the latter in this case.

It's not perching to stand outside an AoE effect, dimbulb. Trust me, when the main tank healing fucked up and I went to the top of the hate list, Magmadar was more than able to path to me. If he couldn't, that would have been perching.

This will make tranq shot marginally more challenging. Old Magmadar was all about positioning. Folks will have to pay a tad more attention now. Also, decursive won't work at all. I suspect that will screw more MC groups up.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Calantus on August 31, 2005, 03:02:13 PM
Cascading Raid Instances

If a guild is found using any methods to circumvent a raid timer to kill a boss in any raid instance faster then the raid timer allows per week, they will be punished for exploiting game mechanics. Basically, if a guild kills Ragnaros twice in less than six days from the start of the raid ID, they’ve exploited.

They really should know better than to just throw up a term like "guild" for this. What about large guilds or alt runs? Obviously you're not going to get banned if you are in your guild's 2nd MC raid, nor if your alt raids up MC, so why not just say "character"?


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Margalis on August 31, 2005, 06:29:34 PM
Given that some servers have problems filling battlegrounds already, is more really a good thing?


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Merusk on August 31, 2005, 08:02:40 PM
Given that some servers have problems filling battlegrounds already, is more really a good thing?

It's a smaller pop.BG.  The only one servers have a problem filling is the 40-vs-40 Alterac Valley.  You can never get/keep enough Horde interested to get it going and keep it going on most servers.  This new one is 15 vs 15.. and the 10vs10 are always going, so it shouldn't be too big a problem.

It's Blizz's way of answering the population imbalance while simultaniously ignoring it.

 Also, on the hunter talents.  Just from an hour or two of testing today I found that 5b/31m/15s was more DPS than the 5b/15m/31s I'd seen a lot of people advocating.  Yeah I critted less often, and had less Agi but every damage shot was for more and my atk power was > with TS and AOTH. Also since Barrage and Ranged Weapon spec stack, multi spamming adds a LOT of damage. (I critted several multis for 1100-1200.) 

This is with a base Agi of 308, upped to 355 with the talents. My ATK was 920 with Survival and 926 with Marks, so more agi will probably edge it out.  I fought 20 of the orcs in Burning Steppes for around 400 attacks with both specs.  I plan on trying out beast mastery tomorrow.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Strazos on August 31, 2005, 08:15:19 PM
WSg will be garbage until all types of travel forms are nerfed when flag carrying.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: MrHat on August 31, 2005, 10:07:55 PM
WSg will be garbage until all types of travel forms are nerfed when flag carrying.

This is so much less a problem than is poor teamwork.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Calantus on August 31, 2005, 11:53:09 PM
Warsong Gulch

We see a lot of complaints / petitions about players using the terrain in front of the Horde graveyard to go up and down the hill. Since both factions can run up and down this hill without any help or cheats, and it neither hinders nor gives the other side an advantage, GMs will not be punishing players for this issue.

Oh yeah I forgot to comment on this before. What the fuck are they smoking? Horde having an extra way into their base that is also the fastest way to cap a flag and the best way to get to their graveyard reinforcements is not an advantage? Mkay. If the dickheads had any clue they'd realise that if you're gonna make a CTF map with both sides being almost identical, you don't just add another path for one team. That's so insanely stupid I can't believe they're just giving the issue the big ol' /shrug.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: kaid on September 01, 2005, 07:13:53 AM
I was testing a build last night with my hunter that was 20 marksman 31 beastmastery. I was pretty shocked to see that my ranged DPS was very comparable to what it was before. Less off the top end on my big aimed shot crits but I was still landing aimed shots for over 1500 damage. And the pets power want up like a freaking rocket. In the few pvp fights I had I introduced a priest and a warlock to snuffles the warpig mk2. Snuffles when in bestial wrath crits for between 300 and 350 damage and with all my other beastmastery talents he was doing it FAST.

With the best armor improvement and the 3rd best stamina improvement snuffles had 6400 ac and 4k hp. His armor mitigation vs level 60 opponents was listed as 53.4%. Soloing elites at tyrs hand is a freaking joke with him I wind up every fight very close to full mana. I just auto shot and let the piggy man handle them.

The new screech talent for bats and birds looks very nice as well. It drops attack power by 100 for everything in melee range of the pet when it screechs. it also does damage similar to that of claw with a slower reuse so you can have bite and screech and growl up without raping the pets energy.


All in all I think I am changing my plans for a marksman survival or survivla marksman hunter into having the biggest baddest pig I can get.

For those who think I would be gimping ranged damage please note that the only thing I am giving up is range weapon specalist and barrage and gaining a pretty damn nice rapid fire proc that goes off very frequently.


kaid


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Merusk on September 01, 2005, 07:51:36 AM
I'd have posted the actual DPS numbers I got with the builds above, but I can't help but keep thinking they're flawed.

The Marksman build over the course of 20 fights averaged 195DPS average, with shitty gear (I'm no MC raider, and own no purples. My uber weapon is the carapice spine crossbow) and a 1.4spd cat using bite/claw (Yes I told the parser to count the cat. He's part of the class, damnit. <insert angry rant about folks wanting to only count the hunter dps>)

The Survival build netted me 145DPS average against the same mobs for the same number of fights.

That's a VERY significant change in DPS there. I didn't change my fight style or fight order between the two builds, so I think what may have borked it is multishot.  The orcs I was fighting have 2 multi-spawns, and I don't bother with ice trap in those cases.  This meant multi would hit both orcs and in several of the MM-build cases it crit on both hits, pushing my DPS for that fight up to 333 or more. The survival build would get similar hits, but without the Ranged Weap spec and Barrage the crits were only around 4-500 when they hit.  My DPS didn't spike anywhere NEAR as much on those fights as it did with Marks.

There's an onxyia raid at 6est on test, Alliance Side tonight.  I think I'll join it and see what I can do with the MM build, since a lot of the other hunters in the 'test server people' guild were going survival.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: kaid on September 01, 2005, 11:17:21 AM
Marksman in an aoe situation WILL outdamage the survival build but it depends if you get lucky crits. If you are all marksman now you have a 15% boost to damage when using volley and multishot. I will miss my extra multshot boost because in situations were you can use it its awsome.

If you go survival marksman the only dps bonus you lack is ranged spec and barrage. You gain more than enough in survival to make up for the ranged one and against single targets it likely will do a bit more than a pure marksman. Barrage though with 15% boost times three every time you multishot can add up fast.

kaid


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Kail on September 01, 2005, 03:47:31 PM
Oh yeah I forgot to comment on this before. What the fuck are they smoking? Horde having an extra way into their base that is also the fastest way to cap a flag and the best way to get to their graveyard reinforcements is not an advantage? Mkay. If the dickheads had any clue they'd realise that if you're gonna make a CTF map with both sides being almost identical, you don't just add another path for one team. That's so insanely stupid I can't believe they're just giving the issue the big ol' /shrug.

I think it's because terrain (and bases) do precisely jack for strategy in this game.  Alliance (at least on my server) spends as much time in the Horde base as the Horde does, so having another way in is as helpful to them as it is to us.  It's easier for everyone to get to the Horde flag room, Alliance and Horde alike.  I haven't noticed that path back being noticeably faster than the tunnel, and it doesn't go by the haste powerup, so I don't use it anyway when I'm running a flag.

That being said, it was pretty obviously a mistake on their part, and I'm surprised they're not fixing it.  I'd like to believe that they realized that this BG is a fucking waste of time, and they're focusing on other options to improve it, though.  Perhaps giving at least a cursory glance to one of the eight million other multiplayer PC games who've thought that what the world really needs is yet another capture the damned flag mod, and noticing perhaps some features which make WSG one of the worst of these (such as a map designed by someone who knows at least enough not to make the thing wider than it is long, or perhaps the idea that characters would be somehow close to balanced for this mode, or that the defense should have some kind of tactical advantage against attackers).

Incidentally, has anyone played that new Arathi Basin BG?  Is it any good?  I hear it's tiered, so I should be able to get my characters into it, but the description of it sounds a lot like a BF1942 style node control game, so I'm worried it's going to be another shitty "me-too" kind of thing.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: Calantus on September 01, 2005, 04:13:44 PM
Yeah that's my main point, even if there is no tactical advantage persay, it is still a new path that only one side of the map gets. I have used it to my advantage a few times btw, going the tunnel can get you killed if you don't have backup and alliance are on your tail (especially as a shaman, hello indoors), but if you go up the hill you get to go right past your GY and get reinforced.

As for AB, it's quite fun. The way it works encourages your side to split up and take on the enemy in small groups at different points in the map. It's a little like roaming pvp only with actual people to fight. My favourite is that you don't get zerged all that often. If you face up against a duo, chances are they will still be a duo when you/they die. I like that. It's also the most PVPish BG as you really HAVE to fight, whereas AV forces NPC battles and WSG discourages fighting to an extent. In AB the path and key to victory is killing other players, 'cause only a retard is gonna let you cap a node when they're alive and in the area.

EDIT: Although... a few times we've had hunters/mages just kite around a bit and then attack us when we go to cap. When we go to engage they just run again. That's kinda annoying. We'll see how that pans out though. Also the alliance on Test seem to have a hard-on for exploiting the games to get all the resources before the game officially starts. Me, I don't care, it's Test for christ's sake, but I DO have to listen to people bitch and that annoys me.


Title: Re: 1.7 Patch Notes
Post by: TheWalrus on September 01, 2005, 06:06:44 PM
  I was under the impression there was another way to get into the alliance base in WSG besides tunnel/ramp, similar to horde GY route. I've seen alliance mention it a couple times, but never seen it, and its never specifically pointed out, thus I have no real clue if it exists or not.