f13.net

Hi.

Do/did you live in Texas?

Sweet.

Hey.

Do/did you have a job?

Cool.

Hey.

How much do you pay in taxes?
How about utility things?
Cable, internet, groceries, mortgage/rent, gas?

Got any information about Austin specifically?  What's it like?   Weather?  People?  Entertainment?  Overall "feel" of the city?  Industry?

Why I'm asking these questions:
I have a phone interview on Tuesday for a job that I really, really, really want and I'm trying to figure out if the money they will pay me (35k-45k, probably 35k as I'm freshly out of college without experience) is enough to support myself and my girlfriend with enough left over to justify uprooting from Arizona and moving there.  She is convinced it's not.  I'm not sure.  I'm doing other research, naturally, but any shortcuts you can give me would be fantastic.

This job is quite possibly the opportunity of a lifetime for me.  Having said that, and I know some folks will find it hard to understand, I value my girlfriend more.  At nearly 5 years together, we're not far from the Big Step into a lifetime of irritating each other for fun.  So no matter what the job, I'm not going without her.  Commuting isn't an option, believe me I've wracked my brain.  Telecommuting is, likewise, not an option... I wish it was, but they apparently want me to actually be present at the office to do the work.  Join the 21st century, am I right?  Anyways.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

I would start flipping out and talking about the job but I don't know if that's appropriate, especially since it isn't even mine yet.  I'm one of 6 remaining candidates from a much larger pool, so my chances are decent but not concrete.

Oh, ok. What's the job?

Edit: Don't hate the player, hate the game. Or somesuch. Really though, making games? Killing game designers?

Austin is not too expensive to live in, although a car is not optional. I think you could get by on 35K.

Also Austin is 10x better than the rest of Texas. Austin is pretty cosmopolitan and liberal compared to the rest of Texas. You still have your Tex-Mex and people in boots but it's nothing like Dallas say. There are a lot of young people who are transplants from all over, as it is a large tech employment area. It's really not like the rest of Texas at all honestly.

Austin itself looks nice (not run down) and has nice weather. There is a lot of live music and other cultural events. I would say go for it for sure, it's a really nice place. Also rent tends to be pretty cheap. (Or at least, WAY cheaper than Boston that's for sure)

I would say Austin doesn't have a big city feel. It's sort of like a Boston/Cambridge except more spread out and sunnier. Maybe like Long Island in a way sort of.

35-45k should be doable, even if your GF doesn't find a job.

Some guy told me Austin is the live music capital of the

To convince your girlfriend to move I think you'll need to take a trip over there together and see what it's like yourselves.

I've only been to Austin once and saw only a very small part of it (the usual business trip type of thing) but what I saw of it I liked. It reminded me a lot of Silicon Valley where am I now with lots of high tech businesses feed by a top-notch university (similar to the Bay Area with Stanford and U.C. Berkeley).

State of Texas?

Some guy told me Austin is the live music capital of the WORLD!  THE WHOLE WORLD!  Of course, he's from Austin and he's in a band.

Can't help you with the rest of the stuff, though.  Sorry. 

Some thing went loopy with my post.  You people are toying with me, aren't you?  You're driving me crazy mad!

I agree, Austin is nice.  Very similar feel to Berkeley, except fewer hippies and more scorching heat.

[edit by admin, I should have known better than to ask - schild]

My reaction:  :-o

And thanks Margalis.  That's what I thought.  But if it's the techy city, why the hell can't we find any decent Graphic Designer jobs there for her whereas there are a crapload here?  It makes me angsty.

Everyone wants to live in Austin right now. Phoenix actually has a mess of gamey companies moving in. Or at least that's how it seems. I could be totally wrong. Smoke meet ass, etc. But really, Austin is the shiznit. I almost moved out there. But instead I chose Phoenix. Close proximity to David Bowman. It wasn't planned, I swear. _{I just need to keep tabs on my marks.}

The producer for Horizons works at NCAustin now and is producing Auto Assault.  Though he makes fun of Horizons more than anyone else I've heard and is a generally likable and funny guy, so I wouldn't put a hit on him.

I'm surprised he didn't commit seppuku for crimes against the state with the rest of the staff. I might have just made that up. I'm not sure. It should have happened though.

It is. 3rd coast for films too. And one of the largest tech industries to boot.

Anyways, you can get by on much less in Austin than 35k. More like 20k-25k in a townhouse or apartment. Southside Austin would be the cheapest area to live in, but not necessarily the most desirable (it isn't Compton though either, so don't worry).
Northside and Lakeside is the most expensive, and Roundrock for the people who want a Northside lifestyle, but cheaper since it's out of city limits. Everywhere else is inbetween.

[edit] Btw, I first lived in Austin with just under 20k, but I had roomies. Later, I lived on my own with about 30k. 35k is enough, even for two people. Now I'm in SA living off bingo money......But I digress.

Bottom line is that Texas isn't that expensive. Dallas is probably the most expensive, while San Antonio/Austin is in the midrange (with Austin being just a little more pricey than S.A.). It's roughly in the same range as any metro area in Arizona, give or take a couple thousand dollars.

Another thing: Can your girl work? I'm not saying that you can't do it on your own (because you can, easily), but you'd be set up pretty well even if she worked part-time.

[edit] Oh yeah, I almost forgot:

Do it.

The city is full of young people, and there's never a lack of anything to do. Whether that be outdoors, or on the streets. I don't know your line of work, but as far as off the job, it's just pleasant enough to feel cozy, and just wild enough to feel like a big city. You'll love it.

That's the rub.

She can work.  As a matter of fact, she practically HAS to work... or she starts going nuts.  She's not the type of person who can sit around the house all day playing video games.  I know, weird, right?  She's completely lacking any inner catass.  Anyway.  She's a graphic designer and for whatever reason, we're having a much harder time finding postings for Graphic Designers there than we do here.

Freelance is an option, but a crappy one at best.  She really needs constant work.  She won't work (and I wouldn't let her) some bullshit receptionist job.  So we really need a full time graphic designer job in the area.  So far, I've found 1 very good candidate.  The rest have been... not great.  So that's trouble.

She wouldn't need INSTANT employment once we got there, but really the sooner the better.  I plan to ask during the interview if they expect any openings in that field.

But yeah, if we can both get good jobs there then I'd be ecstatic.

But if it's just going to be me with the Kick Ass Job there and her stuck with some shitty job, it's not worth it.  As it is, she has the Pretty Damn Good Job and I'm the one stuck with the bullshit job.  And I'm not selfish enough to think that a reversal of roles there is really any better.

Heh, that's partly why I don't live there anymore. I don't want to consider myself a designer per se, but my brother is (multimedia and web to be exact, but it partly applies, so hear me out). I had steady employment and learned from working with him for about 10 years. The thing is, I was lucky. He happens to be one of the most lucrative in the entire industry, and even when he moved to NYC, I still had a nice income working long distance. The sad thing is, there were many people who were more talented than I that couldn't find a job on their own (or at least a good one) for shit. Designers (of all types) are a dime a dozen in Austin.

Anyways.....Long story short, I had a kind of falling out with him, and once I was on my own, I decided to downgrade (i.e. move). I need a change in scenery anyways. Now I'm just floating around in catass mode.  :wink:

Sorry to give my life story there, but my point is: While I may have some marketable skills, it just wasn't worth the bother doing it without him. It's a pretty tough area to compete in, or even be noticed. Even if you're good.

She may kick ass, so I don't take my words to heart too much. Just count yourself lucky that at least you are going to be employed. If she hits a wall, and still wants to keep busy doing something else in the meantime though, then let just her. There's nothing wrong with more money, no matter where it comes from (err....you know what I mean).

Hm.

That's rough, and it's going to be a problem.

But thanks for the heads up.

Heh, well, it's not as bad as other paths I've taken. I'm also a musician and an actor. Maybe I should try joining a professional sport too? I've got nowhere to go but up  :-D

So, when you say that it's going to be a problem, do you mean: She won't be interested in moving unless a full time graphic design position is in the works? That is a problem.

I didn't say it couldn't happen though. It's just going to be a bit of work in and of itself.

Nothing wrong with freelancing either. Just about everyone does it.

As an Aggie and a right wing conservative, I can say that Austin is the largest blue county in Texas and is full of liberals and hippies.  So, that is probably a plus for you.   :-D

You have to remember that the local university has over 50,000 students.  Therefore, there are plenty of liberal arts types running around working for nothing after graduation.  Austin's lifestyle is very focused on its music scene, arts community, and the college scene.  Hell, even Aggies go to Austin for the live music.

35-45k should be plenty.  Austin is not cheap by Texas standards but you have to remember that there is no state income tax.  There is no state tax on owning a car.  Pay off the feds and you are home free unless you own property.  Property owners pay all school taxes under current law.  In fact, there is an appeal at the Texas Supreme Court on the issue of property taxes and the state legislature is in its 3rd special session this year to argue about it.

Austin is growing rapidly and traffic is much worse there than in the past.  However, it doesn't rival Houston, Dallas, or LA.  The main problem in Austin is that the population centers are largely on the same roads and rush hour is a pain due to everyone trying to get from the suburbs to their jobs.  South Austin is more inexpensive.  There are quite a few bedroom communities within 30 minutes where a few workers reside. 

I hope that helps.  I try not to spend much time in Austin as I work for the state government, attended the arch rival Texas A&M, and don't enjoy homeless on every street corner.  Your mileage may vary.

Here is a market report from a fine university:  http://recenter.tamu.edu/mreports/AustinRRock.html

See, but the homeless in Austin are just slackers and kooks. Loiterers maybe, but nothing too bad. Some of them are actually pretty talented, in fact. Haha. In every other fairly big city I've been in, including the ones that some of the people on this board live in, I almost always have to make a threat. Most of the bums in Austin, on the other hand, don't even pay attention to you, let alone try to stalk you.

Anyways, here's a pic just for you  :-D:

(http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/v3/02-28-2005.N1A_28VanOrden.GB31IH610.1.jpg)
Thomas Van Orden
Homeless Austin Lawyer

Do you have a colour photo?  I don't think I'm appreciating the work of art that the tie probably is. 

Traffic here is bullshit, I barely get through each day without wanting to gun down some dumbfuck teenager/college kid pushing the limits of total ignorance by way of alcoholism and sparking up, and you will spend most days having your sinuses reemed if you have allergies.

However...the city is quite nice as a whole, the job market seems pretty diverse, there are quite a few gorgeous women living here, and Ziegen Bock is available.  I still live here despite the dunce-population.

You can get by here in Austin on much less than 35K, although I wish I didn't have to.   :|

North Austin is for teh gay homosexuals.  Stay south of the river, baby.

Gay Homosexuals? They must be really gay to be superfluous. Is the river rainbow colored?  :roll:

Wouldn't a gay homosexual be straight?

Or maybe just unusually happy to be a homosexual.

Oh, I nearly forgot to ask this one-
About what percent did you former residents pay out in taxes, if you remember?

If you're talking about Steve Snow, yeah. When I was at a party at GDC, he saw me across a VERY crowded room, and yelled, at the top of his lungs, "LUM! OH MY GOD! I LOVE WHAT YOU DID ON THE [Camelot] HERALD AND I AM GOING TO STEAL IT ALLLLLLL!". It was pretty, um, well, it was actually kind of frightening, but then it got better. I think he also soaked our producer for a lot of poker money later.

(Schild, it's a bit of a stretch to blame him for Horizons touching you in Teh Bad Place. As I'm sure you know the team had, uh, some turnover.)

Austin's a great town. Great music, great people, and you never have to be sober, ever. And no income tax.

I don't blame Snow at all, I was just messing around. Really, just David Bowman. Who lives in Phoenix.  :cthulu:

Is Lum short for Lumber?  Is your first name Lumber?  If so, I admire it. 

Click on that real estate center link from my previous post.  Go to the housing section and you will see the actual property tax rate for Austin.

I forgot to mention sales tax.  Sales taxes fund everything else in Texas.  Most cities have sales tax in excess of 8%.  Texans take it as a matter of course but many new residents are in for sticker shock during their first visit to a restaurant.

Mr. Van Orden is a legend among the Texas bar.  Unfortunately, most of us are familiar with his "work."

Most Phoenix area cities are around 8% sales tax.

Just what I was going to say.  I was expecting you to say something like 30%.  Hell, in Scottsdale taxes are slightly higher than that because we have to be all snobby and have decorations on our freeway and crap like that.

And yeah, I was talking about Snow.  He's a pretty funny fucking guy.  He was over at my university giving a talk on the game development process and it was a riot.  He likened the whole thing to getting someone to pay for you to make a painting.

"I have this great idea for a painting, it's going to be a painting of a park and it'll have grass and trees and it's going to be FUCKING AWESOME!"
"Hey, that's a really cool idea for a painting!  How much money do you think you'll need to make it happen?"
"I don't know... maybe... $600?"
"$600?  Really?  Cause that Grand Theft Auto painting we just had done cost about $5000."
"I mean $5000."
"Oh okay, that sounds about right.  Hey, while you're painting this park, though, could you fit in some rocks?"
"Rocks?  Sure, we can do rocks.  No problem."

It goes from there with the supplier suddenly wanting a river, and children playing games, etc etc, and in the end you realize you've spent three months trying to make this really awesome grass, but two of your painters had an argument about it so half the grass is brown and half the grass is green.  By the time you're done, all you have is a rock- BUT IT'S THE MOST AMAZING FUCKING ROCK THAT'S EVER BEEN PAINTED.

Ok, I have to bitch about something here.

It's Squaw Peak / Squaw Peak Parkway. That's it, that's all.

Um.

Okay.   :thumbs_up:

You're just out of college and want to know if $35-$45k is enough to be worth moving.  Excuse me while I go over here and decide weather to laugh or get sick.

Jesus, I went into the wrong fucking profession.

Merusk, your reply would work with someone who wouldn't have to help support a house and girlfriend that he plans on sticking with. $35-$45k in the gaming industry with the hours most people work with milestones and whatnot is not that great. I don't care what the industry norm is - it's wrong.

Still, you're looking at it in terms of Maryland. Which is was one of the more expensive states to live in. A 40k salary in say, San Antonio, is roughly equivalant to a 50k salary in Baltimore. Just about everything, from housing to groceries, is cheaper in Texas than most places. Austin's one of the exceptions, but even then, Maryland is a hell of a lot more pricey.

I'm looking at it in terms of what I saw out in Phoenix. If I had to pay for a townhouse/house out in Austin and it cost roughly the same as Phoenix and I had to support a girlfriend, $35-$45k a year (more like $35k-$39k a year given that it's his first year in the industry) would be just enough to live decently. It wouldn't leave all that much wriggle room for a decent vacation. Not that he'll get one.  :roll:

Edit: For the record - $35k before taxes isn't enough to live alone in an apartment in the DC Metropolitan area. Again - not decently. It'd be a shitty apartment, gas is too expensive and you burn half of it sitting in the worst traffic in the country.

Let's do some fun math.

My girlfriend has a job here that pays 25k.

I work a shitty job right now, but the place my girlfriend works is very shortly going to be hiring for a position I can do.  Let's say I get 25k as well.

So that's a possibility of 50k.

Now, it's not in the industry I really want to pursue, so it's not perfect, but we'd be doing pretty damn well.

If it was just me I was thinking about, I'd already be out in Austin.  Like I told schild, I'd be in the parking lot shining shoes and cleaning windshields.  But it's not just me- we'd be giving up a lot to move out there.  I'm trying to gauge how much money 35k really is in Austin, because that's one of the important factors in the decision I may end up having to make.  There's a lot of other stuff going into this decision, but that's not stuff anyone can help me with.

And, no, you didn't go into the wrong profession.  I just got extremely lucky and happened to know my shit backwards and forwards when it came to the subject at hand.  When it's all over, I'll share the whole story.  :-D

I was just wondering: I was just looking over some things, and it seems that Phoenix is cheaper to live in than Scottsdale. Is that correct? Austin is ranked in the Phoenix range (1.3 % higher than Phoenix, according to this (http://ttp://swz.salary.com/CostOfLivingWizard/layouthtmls/coll_metrodetail_11.html) ), while Scottsdale is ranked a little higher than both in other sources.

Anyways, you seem to be under the impression that Austin is high rollin' or something. It's not even close. To give you an example (http://www.homefair.com/homefair/servlet/ActionServlet?pid=200&tool=salarycalculator&previousPage=116&cid=homefair&fromState=TX&toState=CA&salary=50000&fromCity=4805000&toCity=0668000&ownrent=own), let's say that I make 50k in Austin, and want to move to San Jose, California. The difference is staggering. Like a 50% difference. While the comparisons between Austin and Scottsdale is probably a 5% difference. 35k in Austin is basically 35k in Scottsdale (with Scottsdale being more expensive). The difference in salaries and cost in living in Phoenix is in the matter of hundreds of dollars. Which is nothing.

[edit] There was a weird sentence that needed fixing.

Yup $35K in the SF Bay Area is diddly squat. After Federal and State and other taxes that's roughly $21K. A decent one bedroom apartment relatively close to where you work will cost you at least $900 a month. So that's $10.2K after housing not including all your utility costs. At $100/week for food if you are not the type that can survive on ramen alone leaves you with $5K for everything else you might need to buy -- for the entire year. Oh and our gas is the most expensive in the country (factor in another $30 - $40 a week for gas unless you live within a few miles of work) and there's a 8.25% sales tax in Santa Clara County too.

Hawaii I can understand. NYC I can understand. Parts of LA or SF I can understand. But the entire state of California is just a tad bit overrated if you ask me. Even Sacramento is expensive. What the hell is in Sacramento?

Yeah, the research I did shows the prices being roughly the same.

Austin has a cost of living about 1% higher than Phoenix.

But I really wanted to know more about the "feel" of the city, and figured I'd verify the other stuff while I was at it.

I was erroneously told that it's mostly a city of ranchers, and knew that had to be bullshit.

Sacramento is loads cheaper than the Bay Area, and only about two hours away.  I have an uncle that commutes to work in the Bay Area from Sacramento; the lower housing prices in Sac are apparently worth the two hour drive.  (As for me, I avoid Sacramento if at all possible; it's too damn hot up there.)

 :roflcopter:

Just cause I'm in Arizona.  Usually I have to wear some sort of jacket in California, even during the summer.

Yeah, whoever told you that was speaking out of their ass. It's a student/party town for one, and generally, the most liberal out of all Texas cities, despite it being the capital. Definitely the most cultured and/or slightly eccentric at least. The music scene is huge (but not in a Nashville kind of way). On any given night, there's dozens of bands playing "something". Indie, jazz , blues, country, folk, hip hop, reggae, whatever. Enough music to rival Chicago, but in a much more compacted area. It's also the third largest film industry in the US, after California and New York. There's a fair share of theater and dance companies, museums, and art galleries as well. Lots of outdoors-y stuff to do within the city limits. Lots of trails to bike or hike, lakes and springs to swim at, parks, etc..

As far as all the tech companies/culture go, I don't know enough about it. I imagine it's like every other city (i.e. Much like Office Space.....Which, coincidentally, was film in Austin).

You'll find cowboy hats here, but they'll probably be on the heads of Al Jourgensen or Willie Nelson.

If I remember correctly, Dell has a large presence in Austin.

Yes, Dell's HQ is in Round Rock next door to Austin but Michael Dell has his humongous mansion on a hillside in Austin.

Round Rock is north, outside of city limits. I've got a few friends there, but everyone up is caught up in something else. Mostly work or backyard grills.

Llava,

35K will not net you a house in Austin unless you got some bank to lay down.  Yes, Dell is in Round Rock.  Overall the culture in Austin is great and the job market is very positive.  If your worried about your girl not getting a graphic design job instantly, then your right, but there is opportunity here.  Traffic is not as bad as houston, dallas, or really any large city.  I would; however, live close to work.  Price of gas is generally cheaper in Texas than I have noticed outside of the state, sometimes in the tune of $.20 a gallon less.  Taxes are not a bitch unless you own a house, property taxes range from 2K to 5K a year if you do.  Biggest pain in the ass is the sinus crap, which mainly is because of mold and cedar.  If you like hiking, water sking, live music, theater, and an almost new orleans burbon street night life, then Austin will be gold.

Oh.. median home price is 150K, with the better neighborhoods running from 180-250K.

I might go condo for a while.  I just did some research and the house I'm in... values have apparently skyrocketed.  Like... nearly double what I paid.  I could probably sell this, go to Austin and buy a condo straight up for cash.  And it's not like the two of us need a ton of space, we're sickeningly affectionate.

I hate reading stuff like this. I love my city, but around here you'll pay $250,000 for a two bedroom townhouse in the burbs. Condos in town start at about $300,000. Im renting a one bedroom, 30 year old apartment in the city (but not downtown) for $695 and that's cheap.

Mind you, I do make a fair bit more than $35k.

I've been in Austin for ten years now (since I started at UT). I love living here.

Things I like:
Compact layout:  There isn't the insane sprawl that you find in places like Houston or Dallas. I live in Northwest Austin (to be closer to my job at the big company in Roundrock), and I can drive to downtown  (even in rush hour) in 20 minutes or less.

Natural beauty:  The city looks nice, and there are solid "nature" things to do.l The hill country is very picturesque, and the city is traversed by various rivers and manmade lakes. There are a lot of mountain bike trails and disc golf courses scattered around town.

Culture:  There is a good nightlife scene that is less pretentious than Dallas or Houston. The SXSW festival and businesses like www.alamodrafthouse.com and countless great dive bars/restaurants make it great to be here.

Location: Austin is easily accessible (2-3.5 hour drive) to Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio. New Orleans is also drivable.

It's great here. Come on down.

Well, just finished the first phone interview.  I think it went pretty well, though that can sometimes be hard to read over the phone.  Here's hoping.

(http://www.cmbdg.com/blog/content/wp-content/i/fingerscrossed.gif)

GOOD LUCK!

I supported a child, a wife and an apartment on 9k less out of college, and I was well-paid for the area.  I only just hit that pay scale recently, 6 years out of school. My point was that the tone of the original post seemed to indicate he thought it might be on the low side of the payscale. 

Yes, I went into the wrong profession.  People think folks in the architecture profession make bank. As a rule, we don't. Am I bitter about money? You betcha, but it could be worse.  I could be one of the kids straight out of school today and making $28k again.

Oh no, it's great pay.  (Confidentially, it's more than I'd ask for if I hadn't been told this was the pay range.)

I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth completely uprooting and making my girlfriend start over again with her career.

That second part is huge. As I've said.

Also, I bet more and more game developers will be moving to Phoenix. Granted, I myself am gambling on it.

As far as uprooting and such, is getting a new job really starting over with a career? I mean, she still has a resume that includes her old work. If I leave my job tomorrow I don't have to start a new job as a junior programmer again.

Because we're both freshly out of college, she's been at her job less than a year.  So if she stays there, she can rack up several years of experience before moving on.  If we both move to Austin, she's got to find another job willing to accept someone with less than a year (which, to most companies equals zero) experience.  So even though it's the early stages of her career, she has some momentum going and would have to give that up.  That first job can be very hard to find, especially in a place like Austin where competition is very rough for her field.

Presumably she was a Graphics Design/Visual Arts major in school so she should have a portfolio of that work at least and she can add whatever she's done so far at her current job to that. It depends a lot on the particulars of the job, of course, but for some of them the main thing is the quality of the work in the portfolio rather than the number of years working.

Yeah, true, and she has a very professional portfolio.  Still gonna be tough, but I think if I get the job and they'll help at all with the relocation process, we'll almost certainly go for it.

Gay homosexuals was a line from Southpark or something... can't remember... it's funny because it makes no sense.  Kind of like a "double negative," which I reckon you'd be hearing a lot more of if you moved down to these here parts.  "She ain't no Laura Bush, but she'll do."

BTW, if you end up here and need morning radio to get you through traffic, Dudley and Bob on 93.7 is pretty funny stuff.

 :thumbs_up:

Job still isn't mine, but I wasn't eliminated at the interview.  Moving on to the next step at this point, so hooray, I haven't been rejected yet!

And the next step is a test of something I'm quite good at, so that looks good too.

SOE Austin?... AKA SWG??

(http://www.posters4u.de/images/produkte/thumbs/207401_kl.jpg)

Hopefully no SOE.

However, a good friend of mine is trying to join this little Gem (http://www.ncsoft.com/eng/nccontry/contry_01.asp) here in Austin.

I had to leave Austin last year after being unemployed for over a year.  Austin doesn't appear to be recovering from Dot.com like Cali, expect for in area of microprocessors.  A lot of belt tightening all around.

Robert Garriott?  Richard?  Roger?

No, not SOE.

There a zipper mouth emoticon we could get?