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Title: 300 Post by: Velorath on July 28, 2005, 11:07:57 PM Here's an original idea: Let's take one of Frank Miller's old non-Marvel or DC Universe stories (from back before his writing turned to shit), and translate it almost exactly into a movie.
Well that's the rumor Ain't it Cool is posting (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20864) regarding a movie based on Miller's old 300 story, anyway. Not only that, but the rumor is that the guy who directed the Dawn of the Dead remake (Zach Snyder) will be directing this. This guy must love sloppy seconds. Not only is he "the guy that did that remake of Dawn of the Dead", but now he'll be "that other guy that made a movie based on a Frank Miller comic". Not that I'm surprised at a lack of originality in Hollywood mind you. I'm just awaiting the inevitable backlash against comic book movies. At least this isn't another superhero movie though, so it might slip by the public unnoticed as being based on a comic. Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: schild on July 28, 2005, 11:11:07 PM I liked the new Dawn of the Dead.
Also, I don't read AICN because Knowles is really really fat. So much so that I think that when he hits the caps locks to type it's an accident. People that big can't be trusted. Because they'll eat you. Seriously. He scares the hell out of me. Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: Velorath on July 28, 2005, 11:18:02 PM I liked the new Dawn of the Dead. Also, I don't read AICN because Knowles is really really fat. So much so that I think that when he hits the caps locks to type it's an accident. People that big can't be trusted. Because they'll eat you. Seriously. He scares the hell out of me. I don't like AICN because the reviews are self important ramblings that go on and on about the reviewers' childhoods to the point where you stop reading in disgust long before you ever get to the actual review. That said, a lot of their rumors tend to be accurate. And while I liked the Dawn of the Dead remake, it's hard for me not to like a zombie movie. IMDB also has Snyder listed as doing a Rainbow Six movie to be released in 2007. Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: HaemishM on July 29, 2005, 08:22:36 AM If you haven't read 300, you should. It's brilliant, and I don't see this as sloppy seconds. Really, 300 had very little similarity to Sin City other than the artist who wrote/drew it.
Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: Velorath on July 29, 2005, 12:27:18 PM If you haven't read 300, you should. It's brilliant, and I don't see this as sloppy seconds. Really, 300 had very little similarity to Sin City other than the artist who wrote/drew it. I'd be surprised if any of the studio execs who gave this the greenlight have read it. I don't think 300 and Sin City have any similarity at all, but deciding to do a shot for panel translation of a Frank Miller so soon after Sin City seems more than coincidental. Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: Llava on July 29, 2005, 04:19:34 PM <shrug> If it turns out to be good, then cool. We get another good movie. Does it matter why?
Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: ahoythematey on August 03, 2005, 04:58:01 PM If this could lead to a Dark Knight Returns movie...
Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: stray on August 03, 2005, 05:28:34 PM If this could lead to a Dark Knight Returns movie... I've always thought Ed Harris could make a good "old" Batman. Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: ahoythematey on August 03, 2005, 05:49:21 PM ]Sean Bean (http://imdb.com/name/nm0000293/) as Batman/Bruce Wayne and Ron Livingston (http://imdb.com/name/nm0515296/) as Superman/Clark Kent. My dream picks for Dark Knight Returns.
Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: schild on August 03, 2005, 05:52:09 PM Without clicking that link I can only assume it's Ron Livingston from Office Space. In which case I say they might as well bring back Dean Cain. As for Sean Bean, he's not Batmanny enough. If Christian Bale is open to getting collogen injections, I'd say they should keep him.
Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: stray on August 03, 2005, 05:56:25 PM Ron Livingston? Heh. If we're going for comedy, might as well make it Warburton.
Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: ahoythematey on August 03, 2005, 05:56:52 PM The idea is that both are getting old and tired and pissed off, coping with it in their own ways. Wayne is growing broodier by the second, if that is even possible, and Kent is becoming increasingly apathetic about his life. From what I've seen of both actors in things like Boromir and Nixon(Band of Brothers), I think the two could actually pull it off pretty well. Livingston would need to really beef up, though.
Oh, and a lot of people thought that same about Michael Keaton prior to Batman. Actors can sometimes really surprise. Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: Yegolev on August 04, 2005, 08:57:49 AM Keaton is my wife's favorite Batman. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: stray on August 04, 2005, 09:07:58 AM Oh, and a lot of people thought that same about Michael Keaton prior to Batman. Actors can sometimes really surprise. Yeah, you're right. Btw, did you know that one of Burton's first choices for Batman was Bill Murray?! Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: Yegolev on August 04, 2005, 09:11:50 AM That's almost as bad as George Clooney. Thank God Clooney never played Batman.
Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: HaemishM on August 04, 2005, 09:58:42 AM I like Clooney as Batman. Just not the movie and script that they put him in.
Warburton would make a great Dark Knight Superman. He's got the jaw, the look, and the impenetrable naivety thing down pat. Title: Re: Possible 300 movie in the works Post by: Yegolev on August 04, 2005, 01:40:52 PM (http://popculturespectrum.com/brocksamson.jpg)
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Velorath on August 16, 2005, 02:54:01 PM More news here (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=f0b5967bf1b096d07456f938e3e37293&threadid=40819)
Quote No slowdown of Frank Miller’s relationship with Hollywood is in sight, as today Variety confirmed the details of the deal that had been making the rounds for weeks: Miller’s 300 has landed at Warner Brothers. The film adaptation of Miller’s Harvey Award winning 5-issue miniseries (originally published by Dark Horse in 1998 with colors by Lynn Varley) will be directed by Zack (Dawn of the Dead) Snyder, and produced by Atmosphere Pictures and Hollywood Gang Productions. Filming will begin October 17th in Montreal from a screenplay by Snyder and Kurt Johnstad. Miller (currently busy with All-Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder for DC as well as Sin City 2 preparations won’t take as active a role in the production of 300 as he did with Sin City, though he will get an executive producer credit. Also: Quote Gerard Butler, who most recently was seen in The Phantom of the Opera has been signed to star as Leonidas. Haven't really seen anything he's been in, so I don't have much of an opinion on the casting Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: HaemishM on August 17, 2005, 10:09:07 AM I don't the characters in 300 are all that big a part of the story. 300 was always more about the mood, the artwork and the style. Snyder should be able to pull that off.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Velorath on August 18, 2005, 07:31:32 PM Slightly related, there's a pretty good Robert Rodriguez interview up here (http://www.latinoreview.com/interviews/rr-sincitydvd.html). Among other things, he had a few things to say about Sin City 2:
Quote Are you going to have the same kind of working relationship with Frank Miller on the sequels? Robert Rodriguez: Yeah. And is he ready to direct on his own? Robert Rodriguez: He wants to, he loves it now. He says ‘I can see why you want to do this all the time; he can’t wait to get back on the set. What are you guys working on story wise for the sequels? Robert Rodriguez: A Dame to Kill For is the basis for the second one. So which characters would be returning? Robert Rodriguez: I think Marv (Mickey Rourke) will come back, before he died and Dwight’s (Clive Owen) in that one, Gail’s (Rosario Dawson) in that one, both Goldie and Wendy (Jaime King) are together, you see the twins together – one blonde, the other black and white, Miho’s (Devon Aoki) in that one, and then there’s a bunch of new characters. And for the third? Robert Rodriguez: Yeah, we’re still writing the script to see if there’s enough for a third one or we might just stick with the second one. When is that going to start? Robert Rodriguez: We’re supposed to start in January, but we might start earlier if we keep working up this clip. Are there any actors you’re thinking of bringing on? Robert Rodriguez: No, not yet. Do you have a bigger budget this time around? Robert Rodriguez: No, I’m going to make the sequel cheaper then the one before so it’ll probably be less. So does that mean that the technology has improved that quickly? Robert Rodriguez: Yeah, we did that on each Spy Kids, they just got cheaper; the third one had the most effects and was in 3-D and was less expensive then the first one which was made three years later. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Ironwood on August 25, 2005, 05:51:16 AM Yeah. Compare it to the spy kids sequels. That'll work.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Trippy on August 25, 2005, 06:08:46 AM Yeah. Compare it to the spy kids sequels. That'll work. Yeah cause Spy Kids 3D really tanked. No wait, it grossed $50 million more worldwide than the original Spy Kids did.Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Velorath on December 25, 2005, 12:26:04 PM New website for the movie has opened (http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/).
Not much on there yet though. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: HaemishM on December 25, 2005, 08:57:24 PM I didn't much like the Spy Kids stuff, but for kid's movies (i.e. for what it was trying to be) they were decent. And they did do great box office, which is probably what gave him the pull to get Sin City done.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Abagadro on September 20, 2006, 11:18:03 PM Trailer is up (http://www.worstpreviews.com/trailer.php?id=453&item=0)
Looks intriguing. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Velorath on September 20, 2006, 11:29:08 PM Seems to be treading a fine line between stylish and cheesy, at times looking really good and at times looking like something that was made for the Sci-Fi channel.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Engels on September 20, 2006, 11:32:02 PM Gotta love the hawt babe action too. Historically, Spartans kept their women in a corral, head-shaved and cowed. They were brought out for breeding purposes from time to time.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Abagadro on September 20, 2006, 11:38:52 PM Seems to be treading a find line between stylish and cheesy, at times looking really good and at times looking like something that was made for the Sci-Fi channel. I agree. It is still 7 months out from release though so you have to figure there is some post still going on even on those shots in the trailer. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: stray on September 20, 2006, 11:46:40 PM I've got nothing bad to say about that trailer.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Ironwood on September 21, 2006, 01:55:26 AM Trailer is up (http://www.worstpreviews.com/trailer.php?id=453&item=0) Looks intriguing. Wow. I like the look of that. Reminds me that I haven't read the GN in quite some time. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: HaemishM on September 21, 2006, 07:46:47 AM It keeps telling me trailer not found.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Nevermore on September 21, 2006, 03:27:21 PM Try here. (http://mftm.blogspot.com/2006/09/300-2007-promo-trailer-scoop.html)
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Llava on September 22, 2006, 08:47:30 AM Spartans apparently listen to a lot of Nine Inch Nails.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: HaemishM on September 22, 2006, 08:55:19 AM Try here. (http://mftm.blogspot.com/2006/09/300-2007-promo-trailer-scoop.html) Nope, now it's been removed by Warner's request. Fuck. Why stop people who want to give FREE FUCKING PUBLICITY to your upcoming movie? Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Velorath on October 05, 2006, 07:08:30 PM Trailer now available from Apple (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300/trailer1/).
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: HaemishM on October 06, 2006, 08:34:24 AM Oh yeah, I'm fucking there. That has the over-the-topness and stark colors that totally fits Frank Miller's work.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: angry.bob on October 07, 2006, 12:16:05 PM I'm fairly upset that they're wearing loinclothes. Don't get me wrong - I dig chicks, and chicks dig me. But the idea of keeping 300 spartans fighting with helmets, shields, and flailing dongs would have been the greatest thing ever.
That being said, Thermopylae is one of my favoritest things in history. Even though there were a bunch of Thebans there too, the casualties inflicted on the Persians couldn't have been much worse if the Spartans had been using machine guns instead of spears and xiphos. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Big Gulp on October 07, 2006, 10:57:10 PM That being said, Thermopylae is one of my favoritest things in history. Even though there were a bunch of Thebans there too, the casualties inflicted on the Persians couldn't have been much worse if the Spartans had been using machine guns instead of spears and xiphos. You can't really trust the ancient sources as to casualties, though. Herodotus (and pretty much every other ancient historian) pretty fragrantly exaggerated numbers. And when you come right down to it, Thermopylae was a failure the was turned into a victory through PR. Although ultimately the Persians would lose at Salamis it also wasn't some cataclysmic defeat for Persia. Greece was nothing compared to the Persian empire, and the failure of a punative expedition, while troubling (like our defeat in Vietnam), didn't have a big effect on the empire. Ancient Greece in it's variegated patchwork of city-states was never a threat to Persia, and only became a threat when it was unified under the force of Philip of Macedon. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Zetleft on October 08, 2006, 02:37:34 AM Ancient Greece in it's variegated patchwork of city-states was never a threat to Persia, and only became a threat when it was unified under the force of Philip of Macedon. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Samwise on November 08, 2006, 12:22:18 PM I picked the book up last night, and I think it'll translate very well to the big screen. It's even already in widescreen format!
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Zetleft on December 11, 2006, 05:01:49 PM New Trailer (http://playlist.yahoo.com/makeplaylist.dll?id=1529799&sdm=web&qtw=480&qth=300)
Enjoy :-D Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Llava on March 09, 2007, 02:37:47 AM BEST THING EVER.
I'm going to go punch somebody!! Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Cadaverine on March 09, 2007, 07:42:57 PM It was a truly badass flick. Enough so that I will have to go see it again tommorow, and I hate movie theaters.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Strazos on March 09, 2007, 11:56:36 PM Holy Shit.
Just, Holy Shit. So fucking good. And while it was highly stylized, I could practically rip the script right out of my notes and books from college. THAT is one way to do a movie based on history. And probably one of the best ways I have ever seen. Fuckers in Hollywood might have learned something, but I mostly blame Frank Miller. :Love_Letters: Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: stray on March 10, 2007, 12:04:55 AM Yeah, there's Frank, but Zack Snyder must have something to do with it. He managed to trump Romero with the Dawn of the Dead remake (yes, I think so).
Won't get around to it until Sunday though. =\ [EDIT] Just to mention, he's set to be the guy doing the Watchmen movie too (finally!). [EDIT] As for "history", I do not quite picture the Persians as the monstrous barbarians portrayed in this film. They were practically the most advanced civilization at the time. I still think the film could be good though. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Strazos on March 10, 2007, 12:15:56 AM Like I said above, stylized. Also, the Persian armies were not made up entirely of "Persians."
Also, not sure it matters, but the Greeks practically invented the term "Barbarian," which was simply a way to refer to non-Greeks. It possibly stemmed to their (Greeks') idea that the languages used by those foreigners to the east just sounded like "bar bar bar." And another thing, not all Persians were depicted as being monstrous mutants or anything. Only a few were, actually. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Samwise on March 10, 2007, 12:20:23 AM Excellent movie. I flipped through the book a bit after seeing it and found that many of the scenes were taken straight from the book, right down to the camera angle. Very cool.
Also, "advanced" does not go hand in hand with "peaceful and enlightened". Look at the US. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Zetleft on March 10, 2007, 07:07:21 AM Awesome movie, superb visual style to it. Those fighting scenes were all I hoped for and more, yeah I'll be seeing it again tomorrow.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Ironwood on March 10, 2007, 07:39:12 AM This pleases me.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Llava on March 10, 2007, 09:45:43 AM It possibly stemmed to their (Greeks') idea that the languages used by those foreigners to the east just sounded like "bar bar bar." Well that's just wrong and ignorant. It's "derka derka". Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: gimpyone on March 10, 2007, 08:29:22 PM βάρβαρος basically meant anyone who didn't speak Greek as a first language.
I knew my two quarters of Attic Greek would come in handy. Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Tannhauser on March 10, 2007, 08:50:15 PM BEST THING EVER. I'm going to go punch somebody!! This may be the greatest post I've ever read. And the movie rocked. It rocked me like a hurricane it rocked so hard. THIS. IS. SPARTA! :mob: Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: NiX on March 10, 2007, 11:49:11 PM I saw this at an IMAX. I sent the woman home after, the movie did more than she could do.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: stray on March 10, 2007, 11:55:24 PM Spoken like a true Spartan.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Trippy on March 11, 2007, 12:02:10 AM I thought there was a gratuitous sex scene in the movie?
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Strazos on March 11, 2007, 08:00:38 AM No, it was a SPARTAN sex scene, mightier than any normal sex scene could possibly hope to be.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: NiX on March 11, 2007, 11:56:14 AM I wish they shipped the replica shield, helmet and sword outside of the U.S.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Llava on March 11, 2007, 01:22:12 PM http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=9465.0
I nominate "Spartan". Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Lantyssa on March 11, 2007, 04:33:41 PM A little gory for my tastes, but it iis a kick ass movie.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: NowhereMan on March 11, 2007, 06:20:41 PM Fuck you all and your not having to wait until the 22nd to see this film. Seriously.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: NiX on March 11, 2007, 06:33:50 PM Don't rain on my parade! FUCK YOU!
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 11, 2007, 09:06:10 PM Quote from: jpark Visually one of the most stunning films I have ever seen. Ironically, the film does not close with any historical details - and in that sense this filim is in someways more historical than it lets its audience know. On the other hand, of course there is great artistic license with many visual aspects. I was quite pleased with the casting - as it borrowed from Borimer (Sean Bean) and Ferimer (spelling) character actors from Lord of the Rings. Nice. By no means a politically correct film. We have enough films pandering to that - it's nice to see a fucking film about the basic urge in guys for some violence. If you didn't like this film that's cool - there's nothing wrong with being a pussy cool Derails on what you know about Spartan culture are welcome. On the one hand, the film conveniently overlooks the fact that - (yuck) - homosexuality was an important part of Spartan military training at least for one phase of life in the barracks. On the other hand, the film appears to be quite accurate in its portrayal of the investment this society made into producing a SINGLE spartan solidier - which generally is achieved when the man reaches 30 years of age. I actually would have appreciated some scenes which gave me a better idea of how the phalanx formation worked - but I think I get the basic idea in how the the first 2-3 rows work together (if anyone wants to post their take on this - I would appreciate it). Anyway, an amazing film, no doubt the cinematography in this film will be precedent setting - and overused in the future in other flicks. Taking the liberty of migrating the post. Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 11, 2007, 09:07:27 PM It had some great moments, but I'm not in the "absolutely crazy about it" camp. It started off slow, but became a pretty cool ride 30 minutes in. The visuals and choreography were great, the drama and heroic chest pounding was a bit on the hokey side (it's Frank Miller after all), but my favorite element was actually the sound design. Clashing shields and spears pounded into the ground have never sounded better.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 11, 2007, 09:14:39 PM Quote from: jpark I actually would have appreciated some scenes which gave me a better idea of how the phalanx formation worked - but I think I get the basic idea in how the the first 2-3 rows work together (if anyone wants to post their take on this - I would appreciate it). Anyway, an amazing film, no doubt the cinematography in this film will be precedent setting - and overused in the future in other flicks. They mentioned this a bit in the film, such as how the large shield blocks for the man on the left, from neck to knee (more or less). The basic idea is to stay together as one, tight unit. One thing that was not especially emphasized, because it would have made for much less dramatic battles, were the lengths of the spears. Yes, the spears were featured prominantly, but what they did not show is that the rows behind the front, as far back as perhaps the 4th-6th line, would have extremely long spears, perhaps as long as 20ft. This made for an extremely tough spear wall for enemy unit to break through, and also allowed fighters not on the front lines to still contribute to the offensive power of the unit. Also, they used a delta formation when taking down calvalry, which is a legitimate tactic; even trained warhorses were not totally under the control of their riders, especially when charging. With the delta, the horses would follow the path of least resistance, which would take them all along the sides of the formations. This made it extremely easy to trip the horses, or get flanking attacks against the riders. And anyway, as a history buff, I could find Very few faults with the movie. Very Few. Like, 2. I didn't think of the homosexuality aspect of life in the barracks, but they didn't really go too much into barracks life anyway. Title: Re: 300 Post by: NiX on March 11, 2007, 09:54:40 PM All this history has me interested. I never really knew that Sparta had such odd traditions with training their warriors, though I did know they were seen as some of the greatest. Anyone suggest a book on this?
Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 11, 2007, 10:20:03 PM Spartan homosexuality wasn't just expressed in the barracks. The Spartans were known to even flaunt it on the battlefield, before the fighting started (little things, like brushing each other's hair and things like that). In fact, they were even more overtly homosexual than Athenians were (whom Leonidas joked about in this film, as if he was Mr. Butch). Both Persian and Athenian writers have made mention of this.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Samwise on March 11, 2007, 11:19:36 PM Both Persian and Athenian writers have made mention of this. Athens: wtf, spartanz r fagz Persia: ya srsly!!1 Sparta: cry more nub? >D Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 11, 2007, 11:46:48 PM Unlike those other two though, the Spartans were not misogynists.
Though Frank Miller might be. Title: Re: 300 Post by: jpark on March 11, 2007, 11:49:35 PM All this history has me interested. I never really knew that Sparta had such odd traditions with training their warriors, though I did know they were seen as some of the greatest. Anyone suggest a book on this? heh - it's hard to recommend anything - since any book that discusses Athens - will discuss Sparta. Almost any Greek history book you pick up will have Sparta. The Ancient Greeks. By John Fine. Belknap Harvard.(This gives you the big picture, Athens, Persia, Sparta, Philip and Alexander) Philip's gesture to the Greeks when he conquered "them" was truely impressive - and rivals any modern diplomatic efforts - Alexander the Great inherited his army (as his son). The Spartans. The world of the warrior-heroes of ancient Greece. Paul Cartledge. Overlook press. (Confession: Not yet read this one - on my book case. No doubt there are numerous books on this - but this seems to be a well recognized scholar and the book is easy to read) EDIT: already seen the movie a 2nd time ;) Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 12, 2007, 12:17:31 AM All this history has me interested. I never really knew that Sparta had such odd traditions with training their warriors, though I did know they were seen as some of the greatest. Anyone suggest a book on this? You're in college now, yes? Do you get free electives? You should be able to take a class, though depending on how such things are set up at your school you might need a waiver from the professor, as Greek history courses (at least at my school) were 300/400 level classes and had pre-reqs (these may or may not be hard-coded). Then again, I took 2 such proseminar courses before taking the pre-req to them. /shrug. The key is getting a good professor, as pulling someone who focuses on the minutiae of dates and crap might make you want to hang yourself...or at least drop the class. Title: Re: 300 Post by: MrHat on March 12, 2007, 01:44:01 AM He called the Atheneans boy-lovers. Only Spartan Men fuck other Spartan Men.
Title: Re: 300 movie in the works Post by: Ironwood on March 12, 2007, 02:06:31 AM Fuck you all and your not having to wait until the 22nd to see this film. Seriously. Indeed. Title: Re: 300 Post by: HaemishM on March 12, 2007, 08:50:58 AM Unlike those other two though, the Spartans were not misogynists. Though Frank Miller might be. I'm pretty sure Lynn Varley will disagree with you vehemently. Miller is not a misogynist. Misogynists don't create characters like Elektra, or really like the prostitute warriors in Sin City. He makes female characters that fit the genre of the story very well. Elektra is like the geek's ulitmate personification of super-hero chick; beautiful yet deadly. And unlike most of the superheroines out there, she doesn't (at least in Miller's writings) cave to the more dominant male hero, she actively seeks to destroy him or at least exert her dominance over him. And in the end, she finds absolution and salvation because he sacrifices for her, not the other way around. He chases her, she doesn't chase him, and in later works shows she doesn't need him. He is the anti-misogynist, IMO. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Ironwood on March 12, 2007, 09:01:19 AM Wow. I totally disagree with your assesment of Miller.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Merusk on March 12, 2007, 09:11:05 AM I dunno, from what I've seen most of Miller's women are whores, using men to get what they want and then tossing them aside when they're of no use.
It doesn't seem to come from the wellhead of, "this is just a woman using Men's rules & foibles against them," so much as, "this is a tramp who will use you and shit you out, like all women." Title: Re: 300 Post by: Ironwood on March 12, 2007, 09:14:56 AM Miller is exactly the same as Donaldson. Even the heroines of his works are required to have either come into power by accident or by a cunning history of the most horrible degredation.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: HaemishM on March 12, 2007, 09:22:02 AM I see that as more of a cynical statement on the way women have had to fight to get their power as opposed to all women are whores. I don't think he's being dismissive of women so much as of how hard it's been for women throughout history to get the token bit of respect they have in society today. I've always thought of him as a feminist.
He's one of them self-hating men feminist. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Ironwood on March 12, 2007, 09:59:35 AM Nah.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: jpark on March 12, 2007, 10:41:52 AM When I was doing my phd I took a non credit based course on Alexander the Great at the Museum in our city (Toronto).
This way you get to learn, without exposing youself to the risk that profs in another department have a completely different concept of grading. Anyway, it was... splendid! For trivia it is neat to know where the term "marathon" came from (now applied to the distance the messenger ran to alert the greeks during the Persian landing under Darius). So...shall we open this up? Does a film that portrays disparaging images of an ancient culture - imply that such imagery should also hold of the descendent culture today? I am interested to know if Persians are entertained or offended by this film. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 12, 2007, 10:58:34 AM On the women thing, it'd be a shame if the portrayal of Spartan women is skewed: they had just about the best deal of all the Greek women.
In general, based on the trailers and the book (which I bought after seeing the trailers) I am gagging to see this. Funnily enough, a couple of Saturdays ago I rewatched the trailer that starts with the cliff press-of-phalanx thing, and has the NiN soundtrack, a couple of times. I then headed off and played one of the best games of rugby I've managed for years. It helps that Leonidas is played by a Scot, even if his last role that I remember was noncing around in my native Greenock being wishy-washy. Scots is just about the best accent for hamming up violence in, as well as for swearing in. Title: Re: 300 Post by: shiznitz on March 12, 2007, 11:54:01 AM It was asked and touched on so I will expand a bit on the phalanx formation (which is explained clearly in the excellent novelization Gates of Fire.)
Not only did the shield protect the guy next to you, but the guy behind you put his shield in your back and pushed. And the guy behind him did the same thing. And the guy behind him, etc. Then, as was mentioned, the spears were longer than portrayed in the movie so that the deep ranks could stab the front ranks of the enemy. In fact, the front line of the phalanx basically did very little stabbing at all, just hunkered down behind their shields (their helmeted eyes peeking over) and pushed. This caused the enemy ranks to compress, making for plentiful, largely immobile targets for the 2nd-6th ranks to stab, 10-15 stabs per minute. The Spartans also wore breastplates. It would have made a boring movie, though, if Snyder had held true to that. Also, the '300' had 600 in support staff with extra shield and spears (which broke often) and there were 5,000 Thebans that used the same phalanx, they just didn't execute it as well as the Spartans. In fact, all Greek city-states used the phalanx. Imagine two phalanxes coming together with 10 or 20 ranks all pushing, shield to shield. Title: Re: 300 Post by: HaemishM on March 12, 2007, 12:03:40 PM The phalanx was a fantastic tactical formation at the time. It pretty much dominated the battlefield until the Romans came along with the maniple formation. Here's a small discussion on the two formations, which I've skimmed (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/polybius-maniple.html).
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 12, 2007, 12:56:34 PM It would have made a boring movie, though, if Snyder had held true to that. Also, the '300' had 600 in support staff with extra shield and spears (which broke often) and there were 5,000 Thebans that used the same phalanx, they just didn't execute it as well as the Spartans. In fact, all Greek city-states used the phalanx. There was also a detachment of Phocians, who didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. That's not to deny the Spartans their bravery, however. The current trend is to debunk achievements, especially of dead white males. The fact is that, when their situation became desperate near the end, the Spartans dismissed the allied contingent and fought on alone, though their position was clearly impossible. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Ironwood on March 12, 2007, 03:22:22 PM That's because they were fucking Spartans.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Johny Cee on March 12, 2007, 08:08:11 PM There were two systems of Greek phalanx: a predecessor system which the Greek city states used and the Macedonean.
The Greeks did the whole business with large, metal shields and spears 6 to 9' long. Basically, came together against opposing troops where it became a shoving match. This is the historical situation at the time "300" is set. The Macedonean phalanx armored it's troops more heavily, swapped out the short spears for 18-20' long pikes that needed to be used two handed, and swapped the large heavy shields for small bucklers strapped to the arm. Same deal as the other phalanx, coming together and shoving, except many more spears could connect. The devastating tactic used with the Macedonian phalanx was to position cavalry or llight infantry on the wings. Your phalanx would clog up and hold the middle, while the cavalry swept around the wings and hit your enemies from the flanks. It's just like Rome: Total War where you clog up the middle and hit the backs/sides of units with cavalry you curl around. After Alexander, Greek/Hellenistic nations just mainly used a phalanx without the flankers. Roman legions ate them up using similar tactics to what Alexander used: the Legions blocked up the middle, or strung out the Greek formations, and auxilia (horse or skirmishers) worked around and hit from the back or rear. The major advantage Sparta, Alexander, or Rome had was the fact they used a standing army of professionals rather then militia levies or part-time soldiers. The article referenced by Haemish specifically refers to Macedonian formations. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Johny Cee on March 12, 2007, 08:20:24 PM About the movie:
I was kind of confused by the whole "freedom" plot line. I mean, this is a city-state ruled by a king, treats it's citizens with draconian measures, and keeps HUGE quantities of slaves. How exactly are they differentiated from the Persians? I thought the graphic novel (browsed through it when I heard about the film) played up the reason vs. superstition angle more? Or am I just misremembering? I'm also tired of the "identify the villain because he's the misogynist/rapist" way of setting up villains. It's almost as trite as "identify the villain because he's the one that kills his subordinates when they mess up" method. I'd prefer they go back to putting the villains in black hats, and make them twirl their mustache. It does less to damage the plot. It was a very, very pretty movie... great shots. Great action scenes. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 12, 2007, 09:38:05 PM I felt that the movie did a service to the reason vs mysticism theme. It mentioned that several times, in fact.
And I think the difference in recognizing Leonidas as king versus Xerxes was that everyone respected that Leonidas had earned his position, whereas Xerxes did nothing to prove that- he had soldiers do his fighting for him, he wasn't on the front lines. Also, Sparta had a council with decision making power outside the king's juristiction, presumably Xerxes did not. But it's the reason vs mysticism that really makes me love this whole story, accurate or not. Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 12, 2007, 11:57:35 PM Hmm.. Reason vs Mysticism. It's a bit too anachronistic for me (though, of course, that really can't be avoided much). Same goes for the whole "Freedom" thing.
Besides, whatever conflict between reason and mysticism did exist between those two worlds was pretty much thrown out the door with Alexander anyways. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Driakos on March 13, 2007, 12:58:17 AM All this history has me interested. I never really knew that Sparta had such odd traditions with training their warriors, though I did know they were seen as some of the greatest. Anyone suggest a book on this? Gates of Fire - Steven Pressfield Historical fiction account of the battle of Thermopylae. While the characters are imaginative and dramatized, you'll get a good idea of Spartan life, battle tactics, and all the good stuff, while enjoying a very entertaining book. The movie was fucking epic. I busted out my copies of 300 before I went to see it. I'm glad it stayed so faithful to the print. Beautiful. I saw it with a girl friend, not a girlfriend, so the love scene (not in the comic) was a surprise. Was an awkward moment since I do not know her that well yet. Looking back, I shouldn't have yelled "titties!" I can't wait for 301. Title: Re: 300 Post by: MrHat on March 13, 2007, 05:59:36 AM Heh, I watched it Friday afternoon, and there were a few parents w/ their kids there. Heads flying, np. Boobies, omg Jimmy, cover your eyes.
Serious, wtf is up w/ us? They were good tits. Oh, and the last Ctrl-Alt-Del was funny re: 300. Title: Re: 300 Post by: NowhereMan on March 13, 2007, 06:14:39 AM About the movie: I was kind of confused by the whole "freedom" plot line. I mean, this is a city-state ruled by a king, treats it's citizens with draconian measures, and keeps HUGE quantities of slaves. How exactly are they differentiated from the Persians? From my understanding of Greek culture (admittedly mostly based on Athenian culture) is that the position of all the men in the city state as citizens made them better than simple vassals of their ruler. Greeks saw themselves as superior and more cultured than foreign types. I'd imagine Greeks would find the idea of not being citizens, with all that was associated with that, but simply people in their city states a galling possibility. There's also the whole idea that their rulers were there because they deserved the position while the Persian emperors had simply inherited the position would tie into it a lot. But as I said I mostly know of Athenians (and all the other great philosophy types) who the Spartans probably would have regarded as faggy and whiny. Title: Re: 300 Post by: shiznitz on March 13, 2007, 08:09:45 AM The movie pushed the idea that the 300 volunteered to fight an enemy that had sent a messenger to their home and threatened slavery. I didn't take all the freedom talk as deeper than that. Sparta was not a democracy, but all adult males of fighting age were largely equal - i.e. no nobility vs commoners dynamic.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 13, 2007, 09:12:41 AM Oh, and the last Ctrl-Alt-Del was funny re: 300. http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php (http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php) Title: Re: 300 Post by: jpark on March 13, 2007, 09:20:36 AM But it's the reason vs mysticism that really makes me love this whole story, accurate or not. On that account - a film every republican should see ;) In exception for Sparta, I believe the city states used democracy - certainly that started in Athens - but I don't know the time line. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 13, 2007, 09:24:58 AM Sparta thought Athens was nuts with their Democracy - every man having a say in every decision? Absurd and Inefficient, the Spartans said.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Driakos on March 13, 2007, 09:30:37 AM About the movie: I was kind of confused by the whole "freedom" plot line. I mean, this is a city-state ruled by a king, treats it's citizens with draconian measures, and keeps HUGE quantities of slaves. How exactly are they differentiated from the Persians? From my understanding of Greek culture (admittedly mostly based on Athenian culture) is that the position of all the men in the city state as citizens made them better than simple vassals of their ruler. Greeks saw themselves as superior and more cultured than foreign types. I'd imagine Greeks would find the idea of not being citizens, with all that was associated with that, but simply people in their city states a galling possibility. There's also the whole idea that their rulers were there because they deserved the position while the Persian emperors had simply inherited the position would tie into it a lot. But as I said I mostly know of Athenians (and all the other great philosophy types) who the Spartans probably would have regarded as faggy and whiny. Sparta had a policy of two Kings. One King could go off to war, and the other would stay behind, so there would always be someone in charge. King of Sparta wasn't King in the traditional sense, mostly just a General with a few priestly duties. They don't mention that part. Having a second King waving you off to battle, not as dramatic. In this time period Sparta had a shitload of Messenian slaves. They did all of the grunt work at home, so citizen Spartans could work full time as soldiers. The Spartans looked down upon an army of slaves, because they didn't let their slaves fight in the front ranks. Only full citizens could be in the big show. Helots and slaves, were bowmen, diggers, ammo runners. Sparta usually acquired slaves through conquering. I'm not sure why at some times, they fought a city/polis, and made a peace, and at other times they fought, and enslaved the losing polis. But, in the years leading up to Thermopylae, Sparta was running all over Greece, beating the shit out of other cities, and forcing them into an alliance versus the Persian. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Johny Cee on March 13, 2007, 10:25:37 AM About the movie: I was kind of confused by the whole "freedom" plot line. I mean, this is a city-state ruled by a king, treats it's citizens with draconian measures, and keeps HUGE quantities of slaves. How exactly are they differentiated from the Persians? From my understanding of Greek culture (admittedly mostly based on Athenian culture) is that the position of all the men in the city state as citizens made them better than simple vassals of their ruler. Greeks saw themselves as superior and more cultured than foreign types. I'd imagine Greeks would find the idea of not being citizens, with all that was associated with that, but simply people in their city states a galling possibility. There's also the whole idea that their rulers were there because they deserved the position while the Persian emperors had simply inherited the position would tie into it a lot. But as I said I mostly know of Athenians (and all the other great philosophy types) who the Spartans probably would have regarded as faggy and whiny. Well.... I think the Spartans badmouthed the Athenians for being merchants and pedophiles. Wasn't it Socrates who famously said the only time he took a bath was before he met a new young boy? Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 13, 2007, 11:35:24 AM As far as contemporary opinion goes, all we really have left to go on from the Greek side is a near-contemporary in Herodotus (who claims he spoke to eye-witnesses) and one very contemporary play by Aeschylus, who fought the Persians himself at Marathon, Plataea and Salamis. Herodotus stresses the idea of liberty quite heavily in the thinking of the Athenians, the Spartans, Plateans and a few others, so it was at least believeable to his audience that a struggle against oppression and autocracy was a major motivation. If it was post-facto rationalisation then it was fairly immediate in origin, so probably fairly reflects the views on eastern despotism of the greeks of the time.
As for Aeschylus, whether contemporary Athenians thought liberty was important can be gleaned from the Messenger's soliloquoy: Quote Forward, sons of the Greeks, liberate the fatherland, liberate your children, your women, the temples of your ancestral gods, the graves of your forebears: this is the battle for everything Title: Re: 300 Post by: NowhereMan on March 13, 2007, 11:38:55 AM Well.... I think the Spartans badmouthed the Athenians for being merchants and pedophiles. Wasn't it Socrates who famously said the only time he took a bath was before he met a new young boy? Quite possibly, in Plato's Symposium they certainly spend a lot of time discussing the relationships between men and boys, not only as the highest form of love but also as a tool for introducing boys to society, etc. The Spartans certainly used it as part of bonding their soldiers together (how would that play as an argument for letting homosexuals into the army today?) so I wouldn't think it would be the paedophile thing especially. Possibly it was about the Anthenians thinking it was love for love's sake but I think the criticism focused far more on to the Athenians spending all their time trading, holding drama festivals and encouraging philosophers rather than dedicating themselves to war.Of course long term that didn't work out so well for them even if they spent quite a while being fucking hardcore. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Teleku on March 13, 2007, 04:31:59 PM Iran is pissed (suprise suprise):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6446183.stm Apparently they aren't aware that the comic was written well before Bush came into office. Or that it was a comic long before it was a movie for that matter. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 13, 2007, 04:41:50 PM Hollywood should follow this up with a film about Heraclius and Chosroes II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclius#War_against_Persia), just to piss off the Iranians even more. The simple truth is that if you want favourable film coverage, don't lose your wars in the first place. You don't see the French complaining about people making films about, oh, virtually every war they were in for the last 300 years, do you? And after we gave them a very movie-friendly doing at Bannockburn, the English phoned their agents, got their act together, and subjected us to virtually weekly pumellings for the next 4 centuries.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Samwise on March 13, 2007, 04:56:56 PM Iran is pissed (suprise suprise): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6446183.stm Maybe they should track down Herodotus's estate and sue for libel. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Krakrok on March 13, 2007, 05:16:15 PM This historian guy rips the historical accurancy of 300 a new one. (http://www.thestar.com/article/190493) Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 13, 2007, 08:50:15 PM I wish I was still in school to ask a prof or two about their thoughts on the movie.
Also, I wish I still had access to the campus databases so I can see what Ephraim Lytle has actually written. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 13, 2007, 11:18:17 PM Quote it is strongly implied Xerxes is homosexual What? He touched Leonidas awkwardly VS Dozens of naked women shown all over his tent Yup. Gay. Good thinking professor. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Teleku on March 13, 2007, 11:23:00 PM This historian guy rips the historical accuracy of 300 a new one. (http://www.thestar.com/article/190493) Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 13, 2007, 11:35:43 PM The movie had a giant deformed troll-like berserker, a Jabba The Hutt-esque executioner with forearms made out of axes, and a woman who never cried once no matter how bad things got. Of course it's fiction. :-D
Seriously, anyone who thinks that was all fact should be smacked. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Teleku on March 13, 2007, 11:47:51 PM The movie had a giant deformed troll-like berserker, a Jabba The Hutt-esque executioner with forearms made out of axes Hmm, dont recall those in the comic, heh. How the hell did they work a guy with forearms made out of axes into it?Wait, this is Frank Millar..... Title: Re: 300 Post by: Velorath on March 14, 2007, 12:27:07 AM Snyder did an interview at Suicide Girls (http://suicidegirls.com/interviews/300+director+Zack+Snyder/) of all places, and among other things, goes into some of his plans for Watchmen.
Quote DRE: Can people sitting around talking be cool? Zack: It absolutely can. Watchmen has a lot of fucking talking in it [laughs]. Dawn of the Dead had a lot of talking in it. DRE: Talk to me about the kind of color palette you want for the Watchmen movie. Zack: The thing about Watchmen is that I'm looking to make a movie that looks more like Taxi Driver than Dick Tracy [laughs]. People bring that up to me "Is it like Dick Tracy?" because that’s colorful. Watchmen as a printed medium references comic books itself. It goes "Look, I’m a comic book" and you read it, you're like "You're fucking blowing my mind!" But that’s what it tries to do, it draws you in by being a comic book. I think my responsibility is to draw the audience in by saying "Look I’m just a movie" and then you get in there and it fucks you up. That’s my hope anyway. It is a weird movie. When you see the trailer and you go "Okay that looks like Richard Nixon. Dude that blue guy is in fucking Vietnam, what is this?" There’s a song you can not put in a Vietnam war movie and it’s Ride Of the Valkyries which should not be put it in any movie because of Apocalypse Now. But in Watchmen, you can imagine a sequence in Watchmen where Dr. Manhattan is 100 feet tall stomping through the jungles of Vietnam with Hueys all over him, zapping the Vietcong while Ride of the Valkyries is playing. It is transcendent of itself so you can reference Apocalypse Now and that’s okay. It is pop culture. I’ve been drawing the storyboards and I’m very careful with sequence and things like that. There’s a sequence where Rorschach shoots his grappling gun up to the window and climbs up there. I just kept pulling shots out of the book and putting them in my boards. There’s no reason not to just shoot it like that. DRE: I can't wait to see him shoot the grappling hook into the SWAT guy. Zack: Yeah, that’s cool. When Nite Owl says "I made that for him!" DRE: The best line of the whole book is when Rorschach says "I'm not trapped in here with you, you're trapped in here with me!" Zack: That’s awesome. One of the things that I think is cool that in the movie there'd be a poster of Dr. Manhattan with silverware and trays floating around him and in America it would say "Superman is real and he's American." That same poster in Europe would say "God is real and he's American." That’s good shit. I don't know, Watchmen is going to be a hard movie not to completely fuck up. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Trippy on March 14, 2007, 12:29:21 AM I don't know, Watchmen is going to be a hard movie not to completely fuck up. Yes it is.Title: Re: 300 Post by: Samwise on March 14, 2007, 01:10:55 AM This historian guy rips the historical accurancy of 300 a new one. (http://www.thestar.com/article/190493) Cool. Maybe next he can go after The Prestige and explain to us dumb plebes how Tesla didn't actually invent a *spoiler deleted*. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 14, 2007, 01:24:52 AM Seriously, it's not a documentary. However, I think the movie stayed very true to the comic, which was more-true-than-one-would-expect to the historical source material.
Also, comparing 300 to drek like Troy is a travesty. Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 14, 2007, 02:13:30 AM Troy was crap for sure, but I do see similarities in how the combat styles of Achilles and the Spartans were portrayed. The spear/sword and board choreography were similar. Very...umm...multi-directional.
... Anyways, I have to challenge the hype for a second here (not necessarily hype at this site, but hype everywhere).... I appreciate 300 for what it is, but I have to say that this type of film could be done even better. I don't necessarily think it needs "historical accuracy" to be improved either (I'm hardly picky about that). It just needs as much cerebral as there is visceral. Better dramatic elements, etc.. Basically, if Rome and 300 were fused into one project, then it'd be the greatest film of it's type. But in the end, if I can't have both, then I'd end up taking Rome over this. On it's own, it's better than 300. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Trippy on March 14, 2007, 04:20:34 AM http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070312
Title: Re: 300 Post by: HaemishM on March 14, 2007, 09:17:18 AM Hey Professor, you missed the fucking point.
It's an epic, mythological retelling. It's not history, nor was it ever meant to be. And you likely missed all the subtlety in the original graphic novel in the first place. It's an example of Miller's archetypal storytelling, where characters are not human, but emobodiements of archtype. Criticizing its history is like criticizing the Martha Washington stories for not being accurate enough. 300 = Fiction. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 14, 2007, 09:38:30 AM Exactly, Haemish. I mean, I'm no staunch disciple of Saussure, but any historian who says that Miller's re-telling isn't historically accurate, then justifies this with reference to Herodotus (he of the giants, the magic and mystical beasties) is well off-base. Cicero wasn't altogether sure about the veracity of some of Herodotus, after all, and that was two millenia ago. It doesn't mean that the Histories aren't evocative, readable and downright useful.
Anyway, still a week before I can see the damn film myself. Trailers and the book are not sufficient. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Merusk on March 14, 2007, 09:56:55 AM The professor's problem is he's too close to the matierial on a daily basis to have anything BUT a myopic view of things.
Kind of like how in every "crucial document" film, people here ask aloud "Wtf, does nobody make backups?" or I snicker at 'architects' in movies/ tv always carrying bundles of shit and hunching over drafting boards. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Bunk on March 14, 2007, 02:05:51 PM It may have even been in this thread, I can't remember - I've looked at so many - but the best "explanation" I've heard yet for 300, is to take it as this is how the Narator described the events in an effort to rile up his troops before a battle.
Essentially, it's the visual representation of a military rah rah speach. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Lantyssa on March 14, 2007, 03:30:03 PM Well, it kind of is considering.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Ironwood on March 15, 2007, 04:04:25 AM The professor's problem is he's too close to the matierial on a daily basis to have anything BUT a myopic view of things. Kind of like how in every "crucial document" film, people here ask aloud "Wtf, does nobody make backups?" or I snicker at 'architects' in movies/ tv always carrying bundles of shit and hunching over drafting boards. Backups are important. Really, really, really fucking important. :cry: Title: Re: 300 Post by: Lantyssa on March 15, 2007, 09:58:21 AM *hugs Ironwood*
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Abagadro on March 15, 2007, 05:53:35 PM This film made me feel like I need to hit the gym.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Ironwood on March 16, 2007, 04:30:48 AM *hugs Ironwood* Cheers honey, I need that. I heard an interview with the 'King of Sparta' last night and was shocked that he's not only an unknown actor, but a Scot to boot and one who, on the radio, sounded exactly like me. This will probably be a good party trick from now on, coming onto TS and shouting lines from 300. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 16, 2007, 05:23:14 AM I heard an interview with the 'King of Sparta' last night and was shocked that he's not only an unknown actor, but a Scot to boot and one who, on the radio, sounded exactly like me. As I mentioned a page or two back, he's come a long way since he made that weepy nonsense "Dear Frankie" set in my native Greenock. But I thought the Scottishness was pretty obvious from the trailer, especially where he shouts. Lowland Scots is, I maintain, the very best accent for aggression, shouting and swearing. Proud boasts :) Quote This will probably be a good party trick from now on, coming onto TS and shouting lines from 300. My work has been full of "This is probably the line with the problem in it..." "No! This! Is! Spartaaaa!" Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 16, 2007, 08:29:34 AM This film made me feel like I need to hit the gym. No better way to feel horrible about your body than to watch 300 guys with abs like the rocky fucking mountains running around in loin cloths. <sigh> I need to exercise harder. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Lantyssa on March 16, 2007, 09:31:07 AM Wouldn't that hurt your goth-cred?
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 16, 2007, 09:43:15 AM (http://www.nin.com/current/photos/7_03_05.jpg)
That's Trent Reznor. The new goth thing is to get completely ripped, I think. Title: Re: 300 Post by: shiznitz on March 16, 2007, 09:44:13 AM This film made me feel like I need to hit the gym. No better way to feel horrible about your body than to watch 300 guys with abs like the rocky fucking mountains running around in loin cloths. <sigh> I need to exercise harder. Some of those guys were cut, sure. But who knows how much ab-airbrushing happened after filming. Title: Re: 300 Post by: MrHat on March 16, 2007, 09:48:16 AM Lots.
Oh, and. You fucking girls. :-D Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 16, 2007, 09:48:45 AM Wouldn't that hurt your goth-cred? I'm a goth, a surfer and I play rugby. The whole wearing fishnet on the arms and looking aenemic thing is so 1984-Batcave. I saw Alien Sex Fiend and realised I needed to do some weights. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 16, 2007, 09:58:32 AM You fucking girls. That's the point, the idea is to do exactly that. (Tried phrasing it 6 different ways, hard pun to make.) Title: Re: 300 Post by: Merusk on March 16, 2007, 10:04:43 AM Trent's Goth? Here I always put a line in my head between Industrial and Goth.
Besides, Trent's from Cleveland. We didn't have Goths in Cleveland when he and I were growing up. We had 'Skaters'. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 16, 2007, 10:30:24 AM Trent's Goth? Here I always put a line in my head between Industrial and Goth. Besides, Trent's from Cleveland. We didn't have Goths in Cleveland when he and I were growing up. We had 'Skaters'. When I saw them on their Pretty Hate Machine tour they were utterly, unmistakably Goth. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Merusk on March 16, 2007, 11:06:48 AM The band he had working with him was, yeah. (Pretty Hate Machine was Trent's vocals mixed-in with various local bands so he was the band. Dunno how that works these days.) Guilt by association, I guess, so yea I suppose he is. Ko, then. Still, can't recall ever seeing a Goth in Cleveland.. But then there weren't "Mall Goths" back then, either.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: MrHat on March 16, 2007, 12:11:18 PM But this isn't Cleveland.
THIS Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 16, 2007, 01:57:37 PM IS
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 16, 2007, 02:23:52 PM SPARTA!!!
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Margalis on March 16, 2007, 03:30:06 PM Nice teamwork there. cough Nerds cough.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Merusk on March 16, 2007, 06:11:26 PM It took 'em long enough, tho.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Trippy on March 16, 2007, 06:14:06 PM Yes, nice work, especially considering the delay between the first two.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: HaemishM on March 16, 2007, 06:53:49 PM Well-played, nerds.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 19, 2007, 12:25:23 AM I actually had no idea where he was going with "THIS"
When I saw the "IS" though, I was thrilled to get to be the "SPARTA!!!" Title: Re: 300 Post by: MrHat on March 19, 2007, 08:20:24 AM /win
Title: Re: 300 Post by: tazelbain on March 19, 2007, 11:30:13 AM Wait. I am confused. What just happened?
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Riggswolfe on March 19, 2007, 12:57:12 PM I must be the only nerd I know who isn't totally blown away by 300. It's a fun film but I don't think it will age well. /shrug
Title: Re: 300 Post by: shiznitz on March 20, 2007, 07:27:42 AM Wait. I am confused. What just happened? 3 nerds made 100 nerds go "Nice one!" Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 20, 2007, 08:54:21 AM Wait. I am confused. What just happened? 3 nerds made 100 nerds go "Nice one!" You mean 3 stood against many and left their mark upon history. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 20, 2007, 04:20:53 PM You mean 3 stood against many and left their mark upon history. Go tell F13, passer-by... Title: Re: 300 Post by: jpark on March 21, 2007, 08:00:40 AM I must be the only nerd I know who isn't totally blown away by 300. It's a fun film but I don't think it will age well. /shrug Pussy :-D Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 21, 2007, 08:24:06 AM I must be the only nerd I know who isn't totally blown away by 300. It's a fun film but I don't think it will age well. /shrug This is madness! Title: Re: 300 Post by: Lantyssa on March 21, 2007, 08:45:42 AM I must be the only nerd I know who isn't totally blown away by 300. It's a fun film but I don't think it will age well. /shrug Today's Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/21) (Questionably NSFW in usual PA style)Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 21, 2007, 08:50:37 AM I'm with Riggs. Except, umm....I'm not a nerd. Heh. :roll: :wink:
I said that already though. Decent film, but I don't understand the hype. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Samwise on March 21, 2007, 08:57:46 AM This article (http://www.film.com/story/300changesthecgigame/13813411?listid=11597472&genre=movie) linked from the PA newspost is pretty cool.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 21, 2007, 09:26:15 AM I keep hearing that kind of talk when CG's movies are brought up, but the people who say it are talking out of their asses (or maybe I should just say they're projecting). There's no threat to actors here. All actors pretty much perform, audition, rehearse, and train in similar conditions as the ones they'd see in a green screen heavy production. More often than they do under "realistic" sets and locations. Just take a step into a acting class or rehearsal space and see. An actor could just as easily perform some kind of male/female dinner scene on a barebones stage with two chairs just as easily as they could in a real restaurant. Or even more to the point, they could just as easily perform it in a complete dark room, with only a microphone and a cold reader to work with. It's part of what anyone interested in acting has to do. Even the bad ones to an extent.
Sets can help provide mood and some immersiveness, but really, they're not for the actors so much as they're for the audiences and directors. Besides that, immersiveness isn't the key anyways. You're usually surrounded by people and lights and whatever else. Actors are there to pretend, not immerse themselves -- It's them that gets others immersed, if anything. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Rasix on March 21, 2007, 10:08:20 AM Saw it on Monday. I liked it. Visuals were just amazing. Although, quite honestly, it didn't touch the hype for me. My expectations were WAY too high going in.
And I have to agree with a lot of the critics, some of the supporting actors were pretty crappy. They kind of brought it down in spots. Still... I'll be buying it first day on it's available on dvd. :-D Title: Re: 300 Post by: Riggswolfe on March 21, 2007, 11:37:13 AM I'm with Riggs. Except, umm....I'm not a nerd. Heh. :roll: :wink: I said that already though. Decent film, but I don't understand the hype. Since I posted I talked to a friend who was ranting about how awesome it was. He saw it for the second time with our group of friends when we went. He admitted that the movie wasn't as good the second time around and he doesn't think it'll be good for repeat viewing. Stray here voiced my thoughts almost exactly. I don't get the hype. To me Sin City was a far, far superior film. Hell there was another sword and sandals epic within the last decade I liked better but I won't name it here. :nda: Title: Re: 300 Post by: jpark on March 21, 2007, 12:45:07 PM I must be the only nerd I know who isn't totally blown away by 300. It's a fun film but I don't think it will age well. /shrug Today's Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/21) (Questionably NSFW in usual PA style)Now that was quite funny. I have a few friends that did not like 300. Then again - they don't date 8-) Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 21, 2007, 01:55:48 PM You guys are either insane or incredible film snobs. I'm not sure which.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 21, 2007, 02:20:48 PM I'm just a drama junkie is all.... And it lacked that element for me. Lots of great choreography and cinematography, cool score (what little there was of it at least) and sound design, but it didn't have much else. The story was over the minute he pushed that messenger down the pit. The rest was just a rollercoaster ride. An extended finale scene.
That isn't to say it was bad. It was great at what it did -- It's just not usually my thing. You should be happy I liked it at all. :-D Like I said earlier, I think Rome is better. That show might not be flashy, but it's more up my alley. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Samwise on March 21, 2007, 02:48:20 PM I've seen 300 twice in the theater (saw it on a normal screen opening night, saw it on IMAX last weekend). I thought it held up well to a repeat viewing. Action movies usually do IMO. In fact, I was hunting around my shelf yesterday for a DVD to pop in, and after rifling through the whole collection looking for the "right" movie I realized I was looking for 300 and it wasn't there. (I went with Transporter as a substitute.) So it's definitely going into the collection once it's on DVD.
Comparing 300 to Rome is apples and avocados. The only similarity is that they're both quasi-historical and they're both about guys in sandals. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Riggswolfe on March 21, 2007, 02:51:08 PM You guys are either insane or incredible film snobs. I'm not sure which. I am the furthest from a film snob you can get. My dvd shelves are stocked with cheesy 80s movies and other guilty pleasures. I'm seriously considering buying the reissue of ReAnimator for instance, and I geeked out at the video cassette cover of my VideoDrome DvD. Nah, 300 was missing something. Honestly, I think it was story. It had no story and I didn't connect with the characters so I was left with "Those are cool fight scenes." ETA: Stray actually voiced it better. The whole movie felt like the epilogue to another story. It'd be like if Glory was nothing but the attack on Fort Wagoner. Cool to watch but you miss out on the rest of it. ETA2: I should clarify. I didn't dislike the movie. I just wasn't blown away and a drooling fanboy when I left the theater. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 21, 2007, 03:03:39 PM I think the story is great, though that might be partially because I know what came before and after the "events" in the film.
I guess for some people, it might be sort of akin to only seeing LotR The Twin Towers, having never really heard of or read The Fellowship or Return of the King. Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 21, 2007, 03:25:40 PM Comparing 300 to Rome is apples and avocados. The only similarity is that they're both quasi-historical and they're both about guys in sandals. I'm not trying to make a direct comparison or anything. I'm just saying what kind of approach I favor. Strazos questioned people's sanity for not jumping for joy at this movie. I said that I simply had different tastes, and tried to explain what would get me psyched up like that. I used a current work that was set in a similar historical period to illustrate. [EDIT] It isn't because I don't know the story of Sparta either. I'm not a history major, but I wasn't born yesterday either. But in this case, I'm just taking Miller's story and the film at face value. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Samwise on March 21, 2007, 03:45:30 PM Comparing 300 to Rome is apples and avocados. The only similarity is that they're both quasi-historical and they're both about guys in sandals. I'm not trying to make a direct comparison or anything. I'm just saying what kind of approach I favor. I maintain that it's apples to avocados. Saying that you favor one "approach" over the other suggests they're trying to do the same thing. They're not. It would be simpler for you to say "I like political dramas better than I like action movies". Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 21, 2007, 04:23:15 PM But I don't like political dramas more than action movies. It has nothing to do with that. Yojimbo and the Road Warrior are among my favorite movies, and they're Action. Action films can have plenty of drama and character development/study and at the very least, a multi-tiered plot to them. It's a genre capable of virtually anything. Fucking Diehard even qualifies here.
But hell, just a couple episodes ago in Rome, Pullo went all out like he did in that gladiator battle from last season. Chopping off legs, biting a dude's tongue out, throwing an axe into another guy's chest... It was pure cock and balls. Which is to say, even Rome is capable of being very Action driven. It just has a lot more substance to it in general though -- That's the difference. It doesn't try to push your emotional buttons with just visceral imagery and heroic chest beating, or worse, references to "FREEEDOMM!!!" Instead, it'll push those buttons in more elaborate ways. Besides all that, AGAIN: I was only explaining to Strazos what would get me hyped up like him. Nothing more. Stop arguing with me. Title: Re: 300 Post by: WayAbvPar on March 21, 2007, 04:30:10 PM Quote Instead, it'll push those buttons in more elaborate ways. Like with liberal doses of Polly Walker. Preferably au naturale. :evil: Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 21, 2007, 04:36:00 PM *Sigh*
She hasn't exactly pushed that button since the first episode, rear shot, walking out of tub scene though.. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Riggswolfe on March 22, 2007, 10:24:15 AM I guess for some people, it might be sort of akin to only seeing LotR The Twin Towers, having never really heard of or read The Fellowship or Return of the King. I'd go further and say it would be like seeing only the Battle of Helm's Deep without seeing the other two movies nor any of the rest of the Two Towers. Cool imagery but no investment in the story. Title: Re: 300 Post by: HaemishM on March 26, 2007, 09:13:10 AM Finally got to see it this weekend, and all I can say is it rocked as much ass as I thought it would. Beautiful, gorgeous movie, expertly directed, with fantastic acting. Just top-notch from soup to nuts.
It's the kind of movie that gets you so pumped you want to walk out of the theater and bash something's brains in because you are a man. Title: Re: 300 Post by: bhodi on March 27, 2007, 07:17:06 AM (http://www.cis.rit.edu/~gaf1551/Misc/inmysparta.jpg)
Title: Re: 300 Post by: HaemishM on March 27, 2007, 08:13:44 AM Sparta is the new Matrix.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 27, 2007, 08:20:07 AM Sparta is the new Matrix. That paints an ugly picture for Sparta:Online. "The thousand members of the server uber-guild descend upon you: their macros will blot out the sun..." Title: Re: 300 Post by: WayAbvPar on March 27, 2007, 08:28:20 AM Sparta is the new Matrix. That paints an ugly picture for Sparta:Online. "The thousand members of the server uber-guild descend upon you: their macros will blot out the sun..." That sounds like Furiously and I defending Halaa the other night. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Lantyssa on March 27, 2007, 08:41:59 AM Sparta is the new Matrix. Didn't we like Sparta though?Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 27, 2007, 08:43:14 AM Sparta is the new Matrix. Didn't we like Sparta though?Yeah but Sparta:Reputations and Sparta:Renovations will be crap. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Ironwood on March 27, 2007, 08:55:46 AM I dunno; I hear in Renovations, they get a new Ottoman.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Lantyssa on March 27, 2007, 09:27:14 AM :rimshot:
Title: Re: 300 Post by: HaemishM on March 27, 2007, 09:38:22 AM Sparta is the new Matrix. Didn't we like Sparta though?Fucking loved it. And I loved the first Matrix. But every one is adopting Sparta as the new 'it' thing, from the "THIS IS SPARTA!" sigs to other things like the graphic just above my post. It's the new geek cred. Thankfully, you can't really make a sequel to it, though I'm sure Hollywood would try to fuck that dry hole if they thought they could. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Velorath on March 27, 2007, 10:13:56 AM Thankfully, you can't really make a sequel to it, though I'm sure Hollywood would try to fuck that dry hole if they thought they could. You can always do a sequel when money is involved: (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/03/19/300-online-press-events-are-good/) Quote Snyder wouldn’t even consider doing a prequel/sequel of the film (299? 301?) unless Miller first wrote one. He did mention that Miller once told him about a sequel idea involving the Spartans as the bad guys. However, Miller was quick to point out that while he has a precise idea of what the sequel will be, but as he told Warners, that’s all anyone gets without paying. Title: Re: 300 Post by: bhodi on March 27, 2007, 10:29:26 AM As we all know, YTMND is at the forefront.
This funny one I saw today: http://thisiscellphone.ytmnd.com/ Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 27, 2007, 07:24:13 PM I noticed that as well, and am glad I can like pirates still but not be completely overwhelmed with pirate fans and fact about pirates.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 28, 2007, 01:37:33 AM Thankfully, you can't really make a sequel to it, though I'm sure Hollywood would try to fuck that dry hole if they thought they could. Ach, they'd just skip forward a few years to the Archidamian or Peloponnesian wars. Nice big theme there, too, with Athenian democracy* fighting Spartan autocracy and associated helot-bothering. You even get a Spartan surrender. If, as someone suggests, you want true Spatran baddies, you use the Helot revolt of the mid 460s. That would actually work rather well. -------- *Yes, I know about the Delian League. But I doubt if Hollywood would make the George Lucas-esque mistake of covering that bit. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Tebonas on March 28, 2007, 02:09:56 AM I have to smile at the idea of Spartans being Geek role models. If Spartans hadn't died out because of the lack of childbearing couples they would beat up geeks by the dozens before lunch break now. After all, Athens was the chess club of ancient Greece, and look how they liked them.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 28, 2007, 02:19:09 AM I have to smile at the idea of Spartans being Geek role models. If Spartans hadn't died out because of the lack of childbearing couples they would beat up geeks by the dozens before lunch break now. After all, Athens was the chess club of ancient Greece, and look how they liked them. When people invest in movies too much, vol. 3: I shattered a tooth on Saturday, playing rugby. Yesterday, at about 5am, I woke up, thoroughly pissed off at waiting to go to the dentist, and finding the movement in my mouth unpleasant and painful. So I went to the bathroom and pulled it out. It hurt a bit, but in true 5am logic, I was honestly thinking that it was a joke that I was afraid of a quick bit of pain and blood, in the light of, um, certain movies. PS Re chess clubs, the Athenians had already beaten the Persians pretty much by themselves at Marathon, the first time they'd tried to invade. That victory involved a sprint across several hundred yards of ground, in full bronze armour, in the middle of a Greek summer. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Tebonas on March 28, 2007, 02:26:59 AM Are you implying chess club people are losers? Because all I am implying is that some jocks see them as convenient targets for an early morning beatup. And I'm only implying that because I saw too many US sitcoms in my youth :-D
And the Spartans saw Athens as a convenient target quite often. There never was much love between the two. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 28, 2007, 02:33:19 AM Are you implying chess club people are losers? Because all I am implying is that some jocks see them as convenient targets for an early morning beatup. And I'm only implying that because I saw too many US sitcoms in my youth :-D Ah, ok. Well, I'd qualify it by saying that the Athenians were the Chess Club (and Math, Science etc), but that they were also the long-distance rowing club and that when some Jocks from another school tried to steal their lunch money they totally went postal on them. But that, despite all that, the Spartans looked down on them as ghey nerds. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Tebonas on March 28, 2007, 02:58:27 AM True dat, but while we could both talk for hours over Greek history and the merits of the different Greek Poleis, the fact that Spartans are geek role models is still a funny thing to me :-)
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Strazos on March 28, 2007, 11:52:29 AM Agreed. I would think the Athenians more properly fit the role of "geek role models."
Also, they unleashed nerd fury and formed EDIT: Using the wrong word I believe. They had a special word for their "empire," thought what it is escapes me at the moment. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on March 28, 2007, 12:40:09 PM It isn't just geeks getting into Spartans, it's everyone.
People love total badasses. Athenians aren't total badasses. It isn't a new geek role model, it's a fad just like pirates before it. Title: Re: 300 Post by: NowhereMan on March 28, 2007, 01:47:38 PM Spartan Pirates, that'll be the next step.
"This be not madness! This be the good ship Sparta! Yarrrgh!" Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 28, 2007, 02:09:51 PM EDIT: Using the wrong word I believe. They had a special word for their "empire," thought what it is escapes me at the moment. The Delian League? Title: Re: 300 Post by: Samwise on March 28, 2007, 02:41:33 PM It isn't a new geek role model, it's a fad just like pirates before it. The first thing I said to one of my friends after leaving the IMAX showing was "This movie proves conclusively that Spartans beat ninjas hands-down." We then discussed the relative merits of pirates and Vikings vs. Spartans. It was generally agreed that Spartans would beat pirates in a straight-up battle on land, but on a boat or in a duel of wits the pirates would have the edge. The Viking angle is still up for debate. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on March 28, 2007, 03:00:54 PM Did you take account of the relative merits of zombies, monkeys or robots in your comparative study?
Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on March 28, 2007, 03:15:18 PM It isn't just geeks getting into Spartans, it's everyone. People love total badasses. Athenians aren't total badasses. It isn't a new geek role model, it's a fad just like pirates before it. Plenty of reviews are out that keep this is in the "just above meh" phase. I and everyone that has seen it, and everyone I went to see it with thought the same. Not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying. Spartans are more akin to Tyler Durden-frustrated-pseudo-aggressive-wish-I-could-kick-ass-man-geek love than anything to do with pirates. Except Tyler told a good story -- So I probably shouldn't even use that. And you're way off on thinking pirates (or swashbuckler types) are a fad. They've been popular for a long time, across a wide variety of ages and types of people. It's like saying "Freedom" is a fad. Among anti-heroes, probably gunfighters, gangsters, and vampires are the only things that top them in mass media treatment. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Samwise on March 28, 2007, 06:49:26 PM Did you take account of the relative merits of zombies, monkeys or robots in your comparative study? Suffice to say that if they'd used a Spartan phalanx formation in Dawn of the Dead, there would never have been a Land of the Dead. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Tannhauser on March 28, 2007, 09:03:12 PM I don't know, Spartans may be cool but pirates have more fun!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU I am SO sorry. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Wolf on April 04, 2007, 07:58:55 AM Something funny from the other side of the world (http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?image=300lolnv0.jpg)
The text reads "1000 Free Minutes + 200 Free SMS". Please note how the moustache is glued wrong :roll: Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on April 04, 2007, 09:00:09 PM And you're way off on thinking pirates (or swashbuckler types) are a fad. They've been popular for a long time, across a wide variety of ages and types of people. Myself among them. But to say they haven't been a fad lately is just silly. It went from being something with a few enthusiasts to being completely unavoidable no matter where you went. Whether it was a book store, grocery store, any sort of amusement park, or just on the street around Halloween any time since the first Pirates of the Carribbean film came out, you DAMN sure saw some pirate stuff. Let's look at ninjas, for instance. Sure, they have a following. Ninjas are cool, but if you go to the grocery store you don't see ninja-related gear. Now imagine some movie comes out that's as big a smash as Pirates was. See what I'm saying? I haven't heard a dude who isn't a geek say he didn't like 300. If anything, it's been mostly geeks saying it was "just okay". And yes, by posting on this website you are automatically a geek. And yes, almost all film critics are geeks. And that's fine, you have more discerning tastes, cool. But this damn sure isn't just a geek thing. What remains to be seen is whether or not this will have the staying power of pirates. I don't think it will, because it's a movie that's largely inaccessible to kids, which means you won't see a lot of Spartan stuff around Halloween, and you won't see a lot of action figures and merchandise. I have no idea whether Frank Miller would have a problem with any of that or not. Title: Re: 300 Post by: stray on April 04, 2007, 09:03:15 PM I resent that. The geek test says I only have geek tendencies! Like, I geek out about a small number of things :-P
Point taken though. :wink: Title: Re: 300 Post by: Tebonas on April 04, 2007, 11:59:56 PM 300 finally made it to our cinemas and I was able to see it. Nice movie, but from comments in the thread here I expected more. Overinflated expectations maybe?
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on April 05, 2007, 03:03:12 AM 300 finally made it to our cinemas and I was able to see it. Nice movie, but from comments in the thread here I expected more. Overinflated expectations maybe? Oddly enough, i was the opposite: it exceeded my expectations. That said, I hated the bits that they tacked on that weren't in the novel: all that nonsense involving Gorgas at home. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Tebonas on April 05, 2007, 03:09:53 AM Maybe its because I didn't give a shit about the queen and the movie came to a screeching halt for me everytime the little drama at home unfolded further. Give me another half hour of Spartan Phalanx badassery instead!
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on April 05, 2007, 03:36:40 AM Fortunately, the bit at home is utterly unrelated to everything that goes on in the rest of the film, so, when watching on DVD, it will be a matter of pressing the skip button once and back to the slaughter. Since the rest of the book is basically a shot-for-shot filiming of the book, the sub-plot about Gorgas that is tacked on has not managed, through some hideous process of angiogenesis, to infiltrate and corrupt the "proper" movie.
The other bit that annoyed me, and I think others hinted at this before, is that the Spartans only fight "properly" - in a phalanx - once. The first fight is amazing, with the clash, the press of spears and co-ordinated movement of the Spartans immensely atmospheric. The other fight scenes degenerate into one-on-ones that the Persians would have dreamt of them engaging in. Greek hoplite battles against lighter opponents were unusual in that the enemy's rout coudl be the time when most Greek losses occurred. This happened at Marathon. That said, the way that the battle scenes use variable speed of playback to present very beautiful recreations of forms from friezes and from black- and red-figure pottery. The placement and poses of the actors in the scene of Leonidas' return with the wolf is like seeing a scene from the Elgin Marbles come back to life. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Tebonas on April 05, 2007, 04:05:17 AM I was mildly annoyed by the once single Phalanx scene because it made the rebuffal and the following betrayal of Ephialtes stupid and easily avoidable.
"You can't raise a shield to defend your neighbouring soldier, you are useless" "But see, I can wait behind the Phalanx and when the Spartans spread out to kick some ass I can go postal with my spear as well" "Uh yeah, but you smell funny. Go away!" Not to forget the sensible "You know what, you can't fight in a Phalanx. How about you go defend the goat path you told us should be defended. That sounds terribly important because if it is undefended somebody could use it to completely wipe us out". Yeah I know, Ephialtes had to betray them. And that the Hubris and "We are better than everyone else" attitude of the Spartans was the key was a neat idea. It was the revenge of all those less-then-perfect babies that were killed right after birth. Now that I think about it, that thing was spledidly placed and used. Still, somebody should be beaten for that Gorgas subplot. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on April 05, 2007, 06:24:06 AM Yeah I know, Ephialtes had to betray them. And that the Hubris and "We are better than everyone else" attitude of the Spartans was the key was a neat idea. It was the revenge of all those less-then-perfect babies that were killed right after birth. Now that I think about it, that thing was spledidly placed and used. I hadn't thought of that take on it, but that's quite a neat view. It works even better with the version in the graphic novel, where instead of just discarding that which was now useless to him (wherein the film, he throws his armour and spear over the cliff) Ephialtes actually jumps, himself, echoing the discarding as useless at Mt Taygetos that should have been his own fate by Spartan law. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Falconeer on April 07, 2007, 05:58:22 AM I saw it twice.
First time: Splendid, over any expectations. Second time: (quoting Tebonas) Somebody should be beaten for that Gorgas subplot. Point is I do agree that it won't age very well. Everything with Leonidas in it is incredibly good, and the first times you see it it overshadows the boring and BADLY acted Sparta scenes. The next times you see it, you just start looking for a remote to FFWD over those scenes. Those aren't just "not good", Those are pathetic... a steaming pile of shit, and it says a lot that the first time I didn't noticed it: it says how good the Leonidas part is, for which I praise 300 and I'll buy it as soon as it gets out in DVD. Too much "gladiator afterlife-like fields of gold" and crappy rethoric call to arms from the narrator-now-general in the end. I am with Stray: I prefer "Rome" over "300" overall, although watching 300 the first time has been one of the best orgasms I had in the last few years (while "Rome" is fulfilling but platonic love). Title: Re: 300 Post by: angry.bob on April 07, 2007, 03:44:51 PM Saw it last night. I liked it as a popcorn movie. For those people claiming that it's a pro-war propaganda movie I just have to say we aren't the Spartans in this one - we're pretty much the Persians.
Also, I'm annoyed by the price of the reproduction plots and the fact now that 300,000,000 affiliate sites have taken over every result for any sort of Greek weaponry and armor. I've wanted to get a good quality, historically accurate hoplos and helmet for a while now which will now be about impossible to find. Also, The Return is possibly the worst suspense movie ever. I'd say horror movie but so far it's been 55 minutes and it's just SMG driving around looking tired. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on April 07, 2007, 08:36:40 PM Sarah Michelle Gellar has never done a good movie.
It may be a logical fallacy, but this is still significant evidence that she WILL never do a good movie. (Cruel Intentions was alright, I guess, but not because of her.) Title: Re: 300 Post by: Endie on April 08, 2007, 01:23:03 AM Also, I'm annoyed by the price of the reproduction plots and the fact now that 300,000,000 affiliate sites have taken over every result for any sort of Greek weaponry and armor. I've wanted to get a good quality, historically accurate hoplos and helmet for a while now which will now be about impossible to find. I know what you mean, but the old google trick of refining your search with terms of art will still work: stick in the word peltast (or even pelte) or thureophoroi and you'll find sites that are pretty dedicated to the serious stuff. Similarly, since a lot of our ideas about hoplites come, not just from archaeological remains, but from pottery, then "red-figure" or "black-figure" will also lead you to contemporary representations. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Azazel on April 17, 2007, 04:30:59 PM (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/070415.jpg)
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Velorath on April 17, 2007, 11:08:11 PM That might have been funny about a month ago.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Zetleft on April 20, 2007, 02:43:56 PM Bullshit, its funny no matter the date.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Tebonas on April 20, 2007, 06:19:54 PM I don't know. I've seen, heard and read enough "THIS IS blablablubb" jokes and skits even before 300 made it to the cinemas here. This joke is played out. There are only so many things THIS can be.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Margalis on April 20, 2007, 08:46:45 PM I thought it was funny just for the 8-bit goofyness in the last panel. But yeah, the joke is a bit played out.
South Park "this is les bos" wasn't very funny for the same reason. Title: Re: 300 Post by: Llava on April 21, 2007, 01:33:29 AM I just had a fantastic idea for a YTMND.
Title: "Catch phrase, lol!" Show Leonidas during the famous scene: "THIS! IS!" cut to Jerry Maguire on the phone: "THE MONEY!!!!!!!!" repeat Title: Re: 300 Post by: bhodi on April 21, 2007, 08:17:01 AM Someone did that; I saw it weeks ago but am to lazy to search it up.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Lantyssa on April 21, 2007, 03:33:15 PM The Elite Beat Agents strip this one replaced was much better. Too bad no one got the joke.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Righ on August 18, 2007, 06:27:48 PM Watched the DVD: bubblegum fascist wank.
Title: Re: 300 Post by: Arnold on August 27, 2007, 02:52:42 AM Are you implying chess club people are losers? Because all I am implying is that some jocks see them as convenient targets for an early morning beatup. And I'm only implying that because I saw too many US sitcoms in my youth :-D And the Spartans saw Athens as a convenient target quite often. There never was much love between the two. I tried chess as a kid, gave up on it early, because I didn't know what I was doing, and considered it geeky. I took it up in this past year, got my ass kicked a lot of times, and have become a much better player. Chess is fucking brutal. I love that game now. Oh, and I'm a 250 pound monster. |