f13.net

Here's mine:

Planes and helicopters are out of control.

Stationary stinger batteries are worse than worthless. What in the hell is the point of these things? Even after enticing an early chaff drop, the missiles seem to never hit. If they do hit, the helicopter just flies away…or lights me up with its own 20 missile barrage. Now, how exactly does a helicopter take multiple SAM missile hits while a tank usually explodes in one hit? 

These super copters can also take multiple direct cockpit hits from a freaking tank shells. In the mean time, if super copter detects the offending tank (which is stuck crawling along the ground in a long reload cycle), out comes the 20 missile barrage of death.

Further:  I frequently use APCs to hold helicopters in a steady barrage of fire. I lead them and land round after round after round of armor piercing munitions into their sides, fronts, tail rotors. What happens?  It starts smoking before flying away to repair.  Last night I drained a Tunguska mobile anti-air battery of cannon and missiles with no kills. Even with a lock with no chaff, the missiles are completely impotent.

Simply put, the armor and evasion capabilities of the helicopters are excessively high. Consequently, pilots are always at the top of the standings.

Where are effective anti-air batteries, like…the freaking flak guns from 60 years ago?
Why do blackhawk helicopters have more powerful armor than M1A2 tanks?
Why isn't playing sitting duck in a stinger battery rewarded? Why is a chopper pilot rewarded with godlike immunity?

I was bitching about this on TS last night. There was a guy tooling around in a jet that was just destroying everything on the map. It really shouldn't be an 'I win' button when you fire up a fucking aircraft. This is the main reason I am looking forward to the expansion- concentration on infantry.

It's the reason I like maps with one helocopter on each side. and 1 tank on each side. Then of course I bitch about the bunny hopper that kills me in one shot somehow.

I disagree. I'm not going to say that you're doing anything wrong, but in my opinion, anti-air is the perfect counter to choppers and planes. If they were nurfed (especially choppers), it'd be totally unfair. I have more kills than deaths in that matchup. A fuckload more. Jets are a better counter for other jets, but I've knocked them down myself before too. Depending on what gun and section of the map I'm at (and of course, if I have at least one pilot on my team), I can take the entire opposing side out of their air game.

Try it on the Gulf of Oman map- there is a SAM station in the middle base (nearest the beach). Any pilot who knows how to fly can bomb you back to the Stone Age before you ever scratch his paint- because of the geography and how the base walls are set up, you can't track planes for about 220 degrees. All you can do is wait for them to fly directly at you (making it tough for even a locked missile to hit) and eat their cannons or bombs for lunch.

Instead of nerfing them, perhaps add some more SAM stations, and/or even an optional shoulder-fired Stinger- an anti-air class instead of antitank.

is one of the unlockable anti-tank guns a air-to-air missile?

Anyone know where to find a list of all the unlockable weapons?

Anti-Tank gets a street sweeper, the DAO-12. They still use the old anti-tank gun for everything else.

As for all the weapons, Trippy posted this in another thread:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7775/weaponstats8ff.jpg

Transport helos are ridiculously hard to kill if they have two engineers on board repairing. They should make it so that you need to get out of the helo to repair it like they do for all the other vehicles. Attack copters aren't so hard to kill in comparison.

An engineer can also repair the Hummers, Transports, and Mobile AAs as long as he is sitting in the right spot that doesn't force him into a gun turret.  Not as effective as repairing a helicopter, but it can be done.

Edit: I do agree, however, that being able to have three engineers repairing a chopper at once is an unfair advantage.

Ah that makes sense -- it's any slot where you can wield your spanner.

You should be able to drop a blackhawk with a tank shell, methinks.

I've been rumbling about helos for a while. Just been hoping it's my newbliness and not really overpowered, but I dunno.

I /really/ suck with the wire-guided missiles, unless it's right in front of me, I'm not hitting it. If the AT kit got a heat-seeking missile upgrade, that would be real helpful. The rocket emplacements are fairly useless, especially when they draw the wrath of the withering rocket spam that's as bad or worse than anything in Planetside (the Reaver, but at least there are plenty of effective countermeasures, the Reaver is pretty fragile...)

It takes 2+ direct hits to down a helicopter. From what I can tell, it takes one rocket from the copter to blow up the tank. Balance, eh?

I get most of my kills as commander, where I change roles as need (spec ops to take out the opponents assets, engineer to repair mne, sniper to oversee my artillery etc.). But second to that is Anti Tank. I dont use the wires at all on close calls as that willl get you killed - dumbfire and run. Well hidden and far away I still hit tanks that hide around a corner. And I love one hit killing Hummers or buggys tearing by you to go tyo that next flag down...

I still don't feel air is overpowered. It just feels that way, because the countermeasures are limited - without a good fighterpilot on your side or a better on the opponents, the choppers can rule the sky.
I agree that they might be a bit too solid and shouldn't be repairable from the inside. But even though I'm just an average player, I've taken down plenty using AA-emplacements and jets. Taking out the spawncampers going for the US carrier is the most fun... they keep coming back for more.

I dunno, I've gotten a lot of copter kills with the APC/buggy machine guns when assisted by another APC or people firing on it with regular rifles. I've gotten a fair share of anti-tank rocket copter kills too when they come in for captures.

Jets on the other hand, I can't even touch. I don't think I've ever managed to hit a jet with a stinger, ever.

Doesn't matter. Jets arent dangerous the way a good pilot in BF1942 was. The number of times Ive been killed by a jet on a bombing run can be counted on one hand. Jets are for taking out choppers and other jets.

I agree with you on that one, Hanzii. The slower planes in '42 were goddamned deadly in the hands of a good pilot, which I was at one point in time. These BF2 aerial vehicles, though...they stymie me.

I've read a lot of complaints about the Stinger missiles. They seemingly have little rhyme or reason as to why they hit or miss.

Well-placed missile shots from any other weapon platform are almost infallible. I could throw a Stinger off the side of an aircraft carrier, and it would miss the ocean.

 Stingers should become a little more accurate, the inside repair thing needs to be toned down, and the overall armor should be reduced. Didn't those yahoos see Blackhawk Down?

On reflection after playing against some really good chopper pilots I agree somewhat.
Make a class with shoulderifred stingers. Not the anti-tank guy, since that would make him allround  too deadly - just some cklass with an ok secondary weapon and 3 stingers. Something you'd only pick, if your side had no competent pilots and you needed to do something about it from the ground - but the class should be purely against aircraft, not a killer on the ground too.

And make the AA-vehicles more powerfull. Right now they make a really impressive firework show, when they spit out bullets... but that's pretty much all the do. These fuckers should be death incarnate but with a limited field of fire (straight and up) and armor made of cardboard.

These are nice suggestions, but you realize that there is a massive illuminati-type conspiracy waged by the elite chopper and jet pilots. They have the power and the status at the top of the leaderboards, and they will do anything to keep it.

I'm pretty sure that they have infiltrated the executive ranks at DICE and EA, hence the current "I WIN" button status of air power.

I really don't see what you guys are complaining about. How's that battle recorder thing work? I can almost guarantee you that I'll knock down at least 1 jet and 3 choppers in any given match. Sometimes more than that, just for the simple fact that those guys are always dying to return the favor --- That just makes it easier for me to expect where they're coming from the next time around.

I don't care if a chopper has an engineer or not. That's just works in my favor as far as I'm concerned. Guys like that tend to linger around in the same area because they think they're invincible. It just makes targeting easier.

That'll be painful.  They're pretty damned powerful against land units as it is.  Most maps I've been on (most notably the Chineese oil field) the smart guys just ignore the air units and go in a tank-apc-AA vehicle combo (picking up an extra tank at the op. for spawn) and blast the shit out of everything.  You don't even have a chance against the AA as an anti-tank since the cone of fire is so damned large and the number of bullets he spews is obscene.  They chew through armor just as good as they do infantry, too.

The mobile AA station is much more useful against infantry and buggies than it is against air vehicles. That just underscores how silly the air imbalance is.

This is like playing some warped version of rock, scissors, paper where the rock isn't able to smash the scissors.

That mobile station rocks. I don't use it enough.

I am still having trouble with TKs whenever I use any form of AA. I launch my missiles when I get a lock, but somehow I still manage to get team damage or teamkills. Incredibly annoying.

OTOH, I got a TK last night with an arty strike as commander (also got 3 bad guys) and immediately apologized. His response? 'np, mate- I ran right into it." I wanted to hug him.

That's why I put emphasis on weak armor and field of fire.
As is, you only need to get below the horizon and hit them with an anti tank missile - they're not that durable.
And if youre in a tank and loose to one of these, you're a really bad player.

I play public servers.. that's all there are.  Half your team spawns as snipers, 1/4 as spec ops and the last 1/4 as medics.  They then drive the nearest vehicle (any type, just gimme a vehicle!) intothe nearest opfor base to try and cap it. Alone? Doesn't matter! One base left and it's getting assulted?! Doesn't matter I need flag cap points, byotch!

  I've watched AA chew up more armor than I care to think about. 

Yeah, it really makes no sense. Well, for the TV guided AT rocket yes, due to shooting difficulty. The rocket barrage is deadlier because any decent pilot can simply hair-trigger a full salvo right on top of a good sized area against a vast multitude of things that have no appropriate counter. Which is essentially anything on the ground short of a mobile AA.

Tank shell.

Helicopter.

Vehicles designed to have airborne maneuverability must sacrifice durability in order to achieve flight. Helicopters need very specific vulnerability to anti air explosives and just generally anything and everything that would blow a helicopter out of the sky.

Judging by real life scenarios, choppers should be falling out of the sky of their own accord.

They eventually all do.

I guess the game developers didn't consider the USSR's assault on Afghanistan. MEC RPGs ftw.

Yes helicopters are pain in the ass to take down on maps without jets but on maps with interceptors and experienced pilots they are sitting ducks and get blown out of the sky so fast it isn't funny. What really doesn't have any counters is a 2-seater jet plane - it rapes any AA with self-locking guided missiles, it rapes any ground with TV guided missiles and bombs and it holds its own just fine against another fighter jets. With some skill bombardier can keep raping ground while pilot dogfights with enemy jets. :roflcopter:

I just don't see it

AA stat (http://bf2s.com/player/NavajoJoe)

Air Defense

112 Kills
69 Deaths

That may not look too impressive, but I'm hardly getting owned. Also, I'm almost sure I'd have over 400 kills if I played ranked servers all the time (or the fact that some of my best matches aren't counted due to server fuckups  :wink:). Hell, I haven't played the game that much to begin with (haven't logged in since the 9th), and I'm doing OK.

 

Basically, unless the chopper pilot is flying fast and at street level, he's just a big mobile target for my AT missiles. Transport choppers are particulary easy targets.  If the pilot is good enough that he's never a decent target, he deserves the feeling of invunerability that people think choppers have.

I'm pretty sure those stats include kills made by the mobile AA battery, which is quite effective at mowing down infantry.

Incidentally, the mobile AA seems to work much better against copters than the stationary stingers (which are a joke).

I still haven't shot down a single jet. C 'est la vie.

I shot-down a 'copter with the .50 on the MEC troop transport last night.  I laughed a good long while about that.

Also, Way hates me because he quit just as I joined his server.

Did you join? That sucks! I just had a nice run as commander and was off to Trader Joe's with my wife. She is working tonight, so there is a good chance I will be on all damned night long  :-D

Yeah I joined right as a map ended and you were the #1 on your side.  I was stuck in MEC and we got our asses kicked because nobody worked together.  It's a sad, sad team when I make it into the top 10 with only 6 kills.

I've used the mobile AA no more than 3 or 4 times. Seriously. I would if I could, but it's usually gone and/or I always forget where one of them is located. The times that I have used it I don't remember killing anything on the ground. I've got my head up in the sky the whole time (And why shouldn't I? I get 4 missles at a time instead of 2. That's sweet.).

From what I can recall, the only kill that shouldn't be counted is a sniper I spotted while I was mounted on the AA gun. The rest are choppers and jets. More choppers than jets, of course, but I've knocked down a couple dozen of those too.

I never say things like this, but you guys need some skills  :-P There's no need for nerfs. My kill ratio with AA is almost as good as my stats for Tank kills (and we all know how easy it is to lay waste with one of them).

What's your tactic for shooting down jets?  I've heard everything from you should lead them with the missiles, to you should keep the targeting reticle locked right on the jet while the missiles are in flight, to you should just fire off the missiles and let them do the lock-on instead of waiting for the lock tone.  I've tried them all and nothing has worked, I swear the jets move faster than the god-damned missiles.

I've only managed to shoot down a few jets - and they were all with a tank at the enemy's airstrip as they were trying to take off. :evil:

While I don't think choppers/jets should be nerfed directly I do think the stationary AA needs to be more powerful.  I can't tell you how many times I have slammed two missiles into a chopper and still have to wait for a reload to finish the job, that's absurd.

Keep lock on, wait for them to burst chaff, then fire two missles quick. Reload. Keep lock on. Fire two more. Repeat as necessary. Don't fire missles one at a time, and don't lead (unless you're targeting from the side...but even then, don't lead too much either). Also, start targeting as early as you see them.

I'm never going to take them down on my first two tries, but I'll usually get 2 hits out of 4 shots.

9 times out of 10, you can almost count on them not getting repaired. Instead, they'll turn directly towards you for bombing (pilot mentality, I guess). If that's the case, then you should get a kill.

Another thing, like I mentioned in another thread, it makes it easier if you have at least one pilot on your own team. Either because they help contribute damage, or because it makes the pilot being pursued that much unaware of you (and not particularly evasive to whatever's on the ground).

I do remember getting some decent stinger kills on the demo map. As for pilots who turn into fire to retaliate...classic newbler move. Used to love that in the old flak cannons. I think part of why I think the new stuff sucks is the SAM emplacements blow compared to ancient flak cannons, even though flak cannons were purely manually aimed. There was something really visceral about them imo.

The other newbler move is when they pull up instead of sideways (and away). Like that's going to help  :lol:

Man, do I hate pilots  :x  They think they own the map. It's the only reason why I play AA more than anything else (even when I don't want to).

That helps, except when the missiles mysteriously unlock and end up damaging or killing your own aircraft. I have never had more minus points (other than as a commander, when the drooling fucktards punish for arty TKs, because Christ knows they don't get enough fucking warning to avoid them) than when I played AA at the end of the carrier on the Gulf of Oman map. Time and time again, I would get locks, fire, and get a TK message.  :mob:

Heh, Stray...I was a pilot for my clan in '42  :evil: My tactic was pretty much to hit the deck and maneuver behind some cover when under fire. The new jets just move too fast, and neither them nor the choppers seem to play nice with my new joypad. I just can't seem to get the hang of them. But a good pilot (in '42, anyway) DID own the map...drop in, wipe out your armor, let the grunts move in, take out your respawned armor, down your pathetic planes, repeat :) The Stuka was a challenge because it was a friggin' boat, but give me a 109 or Spit and death from above ensued.

I'll ditto that bit about the goddamned tk code. It's way too sensitive.

Yeah, I've had a few problems with TK's. More "Team Vehicle Damage" than TKing though. I can't bring up that stat site up atm, but I need to check what the numbers are.

It's forced me to be a little more patient than I'd like, but I got tired of being blamed for shit that wasn't my fault. I mean, it's AA, with lock-on. I can't intentionally target a teammate with it....Yet, they still punish me.

Like I said, I hate pilots. Even the ones on my own side are assholes.  :lol:.

[EDIT] Yeah, you're right about '42 Sky. Pilots did own the map. I think that if pilots were overpowered in anything, it was there. Not in BF2. I have more of a chance now than I ever did back then.

No offense on the hate btw  :-D

[EDIT] OK, here it is:

Team: Kills, Damage, & Vehicle Damage  40 / 16 / 37  :-o

Maybe I'm just warped, but I love the team damage.  Just the other night we were involved in a really close in fight where one of our bases was being overrun.  Someone calls out an enemy sighting and our commander starts sending an ungodly amount of artillery our way.  Oh sure, he killed a lot of enemy, but he also took out most of us defending the base.  You could tell that they guy was kind of horrified that he did that, but hey, that's how these things go sometimes.  I dig that kind of authenticity to this game.

Yeah, but IRL he doesn't get kicked from the server for too many TKs  :cry:

Hey, that stat page is nifty. I also suck, haha.

http://bf2s.com/player/gruntzilla/

Team: Kills, Damage, & Vehicle Damage     19 / 8 / 2 ....not so bad! And a few of those were intentional ;) And I agree with Gulp, even with some of the wonky tk code, freindly fire is a must for a good game.

Stray-
I'm not sure what point you are making but I think you are exaggerating your claims about the effectiveness of anti-air.

There's no way that you have shot down dozens of jets. It's just not possible. Secondly, you have really spent 4h 12min sitting in those little AA turrets? Really? Are you positive you weren't driving around in a Tunguska blasting buggies and infantry (you do have 13 road kills).

I'm not trying to flame. I just think your anecdotes are a little suspect with a tilt toward making yourself appear more skilled than the rest of us.

FYI, my air defense is 77 kills, 30 deaths in about 1h 45min

Oh man...I was just kicked from AGE's server for excessive teamkilling...with no friendly fire! I guess I was killing a few too many AGE folks, heh. They were claiming I was cheating, but they kept bunching up, making it easy for my 'nade launching ass to clean up...I think the final straw was my aforementioned 'hit the chopper from underneath with the grenade launcher and laugh as ragdolls fly out' trick...probably doing the engineer 'trick'.

I'm just telling you what I know from my own experience. It has nothing to do with exaggerating.

To give you an idea how "skilled" I am:

Assault Rifles

98 Kills
278 Deaths (it was even worse before I got a new video card  :wink:).

Carbines

50 Kills
117 Deaths

The reason why I say that my stats for AA are as good as my stats for Tanks is because they are. The reason why I'm here arguing against nerfing is because it has me completely baffled. It's lock-on targeting for crissakes. How much more simple should it get? That's the "point" as to why I'm here. In my experience, I've had more success with AA than almost everything else.

Armor

117 Kills
62 Deaths

Air Defense
 
112 Kills
69 Deaths
 
For another vehicle reference:

Helicopter

54 Kills
52 Deaths


Not mobile AA. Just AA. I have a memory, y'know? I can distinctly remember knocking jets and choppers down with the sit-in AA guns. Plenty of times. Enough times that I piss them off so much that they come back for more. And I know that I rarely have the opportunity to use Mobile AA in the first place. I'd tell you if I was spending all that time mowing down infantry with a machine gun, believe me.

[edit] As for the 13 road kills, then it's from the times I've targeted players coming near the AA gun (I mentioned the sniper), but I forgot to mention tanks. There's also been a few weird situtations where one of my stray missles actually hit something (while I was targetting a plane or chopper).

Same here.  I was just in a game with Sky (opposite teams, bastard gunned me down like a dog), and I racked up at least 7 kills in a row with AA.  True, only one jet out of the 7, but man, that's a potent tool considering the amount of havoc helicopters can inflict on your team.  My trick is to do the slow double tap.  I release my first missile, wait one second and then tap it again.  If my first one misses (cause of chaff) the second one will probably do the trick.  The closest I've come to that number of consecutive kills is when I camped out on a smoke stack with a sniper rifle until a chopper pilot finally smoked me.

Oh, and Sky bitches like an old lady about people not picking him up (which is a valid pet peeve).

The trick is to find out who the chopper whores are on your team and then join their squads...nothing is nicer than spawning into a seat with a nice chain gun with which to wreak havoc.

Heh. I find the server Gulp is on via xfire. Log in, someone grabs the apc in front of me and zooms off for the planes. I turn to head for the tank, and someone jumps in and starts circling the base. So I run for the hmmv. Someone jumps in and takes off toward the map (I'm at the main base), solo. Just then the attack chopper spawns, and mr. tank zooms over to it. I wait until he gets out, tk him, then use the chopper as a taxi to the nearest flag and bail :P (I hate that, but at least it's fast and the chopper respawns quick enough...and all the land vehicles were being used by soloers or as transport to the planes...) Bitching the entire time about the fucking morons on my team "I see dumb people".

Best game ever that is also made pretty shitty by the morons playing it.

Finally got on Gulp's side only to get run over twice by my own team. Then he logs off.

Anyway, after Gulp left I sat in the static AA by our airfield and racked up a few kills. Jets are goddamned hard to kill, even when I time the chaff right, they just dodge out of the way. But yeah, choppers aren't too bad, and they tend to come straight for you after the first salvo, heh. Not much changed from '42, people camping the goddamned airstrips. I'm starting to get the hang of flying choppers finally, though I suck at hovering, so I'm no flagcap whore like most.

So you tked someone to get a chopper, then bailed out of it? That is exactly the kind of behavior that makes me fucking crazy. It also makes me switch servers to one with active admins.

Nonono. I tked someone who took the tank and circled the uncappable home base until the chopper spawned, then hopped out of the tank to get the chopper. I tked him because he was acting like a smacktard. I was going to take the tank into the fight, but took the chopper instead just to spite him.

Besides, as I said, the chopper respawns quickly, I went straight for a flag and bailed.

If it hadn't been a smacktard, I wouldn't have done it. As I said in that post, I hate that kind of stuff, too. But I'm sure he was still at the base camping the air spawns, if he didn't leave the server. Heck, I don't mind good players camping the air vehicles, but don't take ground vehicles people can use to do so.

The bonus is when I find a team that is air camping, and the server doesn't autobalance.  I flip sides and sniper their airfield. Great fun for the family.

I did that on a server a few days ago. Five minutes later their planes were sitting empty on the runways. They totally gave up. So I stole a plane and crashed 4 minutes later.

You can get a nice easy ribbon doing that, just take the plane up a few hundred feet and parachute out, after about ten seconds you get an airborne ribbon.

In an unrelated matter I think I should be able to kill anyone sneaking up behind me when playing anti-tank
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050731/i/r4258717922.jpg)
U.S. Marine Lance Cpl. Gary R. Nichols fires an AT-4 light anti-armor weapon at an old tank during a training exercise at Camp Bucca near the southern Iraq port of Umm Qasr, in this military handout photo taken July 18 and released on July 30, 2005. REUTERS/HO/USMC/Cpl. Eric R. Martin

It appears that the community has evolved its own way of dealing with overpowered, fully-crewed Blackhawks. It's simple, crude, and effective:

Ram the loaded Blackhawk with a jet. The helicopter whores are already crying foul as their god mode has been taken down a notch.

I just don't see the nastiness of a fully crewed Blackhawk being a cheat.  2 chain guns and crew of riflemen should be fucking nasty.  Doesn't mean it isn't still vulnerable to small arms fire, vehicular fire and the ever present SAMs...

If you've got a crewed Blackhawk headed for one of your outposts you should be concerned as a commander.

There are three problems with a fully crewed blackhawk:

1. Excessively high armor/ineffective Stingers
2. In flight repair. Two engineers make a Blackhawk nearly impossible to kill. (this one has to be a bug..it just has to)
3. Take the above two points and add in the fact that flags almost instantly turn when this crewed helicopter floats nearby.

Yea - taking 3 shots from a missile on a linebacker to take down a blackhawk seems a bit much. One stinger should do it. All the air assets seem a bit strong.

I played some more over the weekend, and I still think that jets are severely overpowered (helicopters aren't as bad; at least they can't outfly and outturn the fucking SAM missiles). The Gulf of Oman map is a giant deathtrap for anyone not in a jet- it is to the point that it is nearly unplayable, IMHO.

I tend to like the maps without a big airpower presence. I'm looking forward to the special forces version of the game. Other then zip lines.

Dalian plant is also practically unplayable for me due to the air factor. It's so irritating.

Special forces should be good.

Go for the linebackers on those maps.  Get in one - kill someone quick and get out, because they are coming back for revenge - And for some reason - helicopters have more armor then mobile AA does.

I find APC is by far better at shooting helicopters down than AA. AA missiles are really bad at locking on targets, about only reliable way to hit anything if target moves AWAY from you. Well problem is that you are often dead or turret wrecked when that happens.

Yeah, if you can get a Linebacker in Dalian, you can wreak some havoc. Hit and move, hit and move, so the joystick jockeys or the commander can't get a lock on your position and do unspeakable things to you with high explosives. Be prepared for some TKs or at least damages though- as mentioned before, the missiles have a tendency to swith targets and hit your buddies. You can accumulate both kills and the ire of the other team if you do it right, however  :evil:

I had a really funny one happen yesterday. Missile locked onto enemy plane. Fire - fire. Missile one goes up and away, missile two turn 180 degrees, and heads into my own sides hanger and hits a plane that is getting ready to takeoff.

Pilot was very skilled I could tell - they had rigged the plane with a ton of c4 for ejecting and blowing stuff up. I had wondered why they were running to the plane every 5 minutes.

A few days ago I was playing in Dragon Valley using the AA on the top of that hill.  I see an enemy chopper, target it, wait for him to blow his chaff, then fire two rockets directly at him.  Well... I guess there must have been a friendly chopper underneath the AA where I couldn't see it because both missiles went straight down instead of to my target and the next thing I know - BAM - I am autokicked for getting over three teamkills.  Guess it was a full transport chopper, whoops.

Shooting full transport chopper is just so satisfying... especially on 'chopper whoring TM' maps. You usually have to follow up with RPG to finish them up since chopper full of engineers can stand up to stationary AA barrage.