f13.net

Care of Blues:



Rejoice!

If any (or all) of you fuckers are attending E3 (I hate you), please tell us what it's like.  I'm pretty sure that we'll all still be playing by the end of May anyways.

I am excited about this, as I cannot envision playing this game long term (more than 3 months) without some sort of PvP.

Edit: Something about Crime Syndicate makes me all tingly.  Macho-Tingly.  Instead of that Gay-Tingly feeling you get from Supergroup.

Wow. Already showing it at E3. Thanks for the scoop.

Damn thats alot farther along than I expected. If I can join a villan group I would be devouring earth. I love their weird scary ebil minions.


Kaid

Heh, when City of Villains comes out I'm sure "Bat Country"'s motto will take on a whole new meaning.

Thanks for the announce! That will be the very first thing I check when I get there.

As an aside, I expect a lot of gems in the next few weeks. About this time every year, people start hyping their overpriced booths in Los Angeles :)

Just when you thought Cryptic couldn't possibly look any better, they pull this one out of their hat. *boggle*

Sorry, if we do a crime-syndicate it has to be "The World Crime League" otherwise I'll cry.  Then again I wanted "Blue Blazer Regulars" for the supergroup name...

Jeebus... not even on release and they've already got the first expansion on the boards for E3 showings.

I guess doing a real feature lock 3 months before serious beta work is probably a good idea after all.

Coolness. I think PvP would be a fucking blast in this game. Think 'Freedom Force', but without the tons of suck.

Edit- Villains DOES mean PvP, right? Otherwise it is only mildly cool. Raping and pillaging would get old after a while.

Supergroup 1: Go rob this bank vault.
Supergroup 2: Go protect this bank vault.

Yeah, that'd work.

Here's a link to the press release about E3.

http://www.plaync.com/about/press_release_042304.html

Finally getting to see some Tabula Rosa too.

I'm sure we'll know if City of Villains is PvP+ well in advance of E3.

As has been pointed out elsewhere the press release doesn't specifically state +pvp will be added.  It's a major detail so not mentioning it would have to be intentional.

Still, it makes it hard to whine about lack of content when a whole new dynamic is announced for a game before it's released.

*drool*

AutoAssault is something I have been wanting for a fucking long time.  Hope it don't suck.

Tabula Rosa with full integrated voice chat?  Interesting.  I was wondering who would do that first.  Planetside technically did, but it sucked.

And delicious villians.

This is the booth to be at for MMOG fans it looks like.  NCSoft might have a pretty fucking impressive product lineup pretty soon.  The new MMOG SOE?

It seems my trip to E3 is going to be one big fun fest. Gets me a video camera and I'm set. Already got a digital cam ready to roll.

Shamelessly stolen (Jiffy posted it at Corp)-



Woohoo!!!

Sounds like PVP zones, or instanced dual sided pvp missions.

The latter would make me their bitch.  I have been wanting that since I first heard about the instancing in AO.  And nobody has done it.  It would not be THAT hard and it would be insanely fun.

Not just team deathmatch, but objective play.  Blow up the building/save the building.  Anyone could think of 2 dozen types in just a few minutes.  If you die you don't get back in.  It would make you feel SO much more heroic than just killing some spandex goon who calls himself a villian and will just respawn anyway.

Team vs team missions in a well done instance with objectives could be pretty freaking killer. That is the kind of pvp I would like. Also the lack of equipment makes catassing and twinking pvp issues ALOT less in COH than in any other mmrpg.


Kaid

Ah I just read the artical holy crap autoassult never saw much on it before but if you can make a carwars mmrpg sign me up dude I want to try it.

Kaid

We were clued in that Netdevil was working on an autoduelish game for NCSoft a few months back.  Good to hear that it's still on track in development.

That City of Villians announcement might be a little premature.  I'd be surprised if we see it out any earlier than 3 months after CoH's "release" date.   Still, good to hear that the PvP fantactics will be able to get their fix.   Although The Nanites will be butt kicking for *justice* as a matter of principle.

Were you born yesterday?  Expect 12-18 months.

You're both wrong.  They mentioned on their forums they are aiming for an XP-every-six-months schedule.  I don't theink thats realistic, nor do I think it would be a good thing (pity my poor poor collegian check book).  Given a small fudge factor, and that Everquest averages just under a year for each expansion (I think), I'd say they are going to average around 8-9 months per.  My money is on a late Christmas release (Mid December), or maybe January if they pick an ambitious featureset.

EDIT: Your != You're

My own reasoning is they may have already put in a lot of early development work on CoV, so 4 months isn't entirely out of the question, if unlikely.


This seems probable to me too.

Of course, the complicated thing about wagering these guesses is it all comes down to how much the devs want to do and how successful they are in doing it.   It more or less renders all estimation null and void until the fact is pretty much established.

I was thinking sometime around Christmas as well. Everyone could use a little evil in their stocking.

Shit, you shoulda seen it last year. CoH confirmed for me that NC Soft is a company to watch. They are out SOEing SOE in options. I may hate L2, but last May it looked fine as silk, and played well. And that booth also had CoH, Exiarch (Diablo-esque MMOG) and Guild Wars. It's the booth I spent the most time in easily.


No doubt. Last year at this time, I built an entirely customized CoH character and dumped a cumulative three hours over three days (a lot at E3) into the game and it still took them another whole year to launch it. What goes on after polished playable demos is quite a bit.

The real complicated part is how extensible the system is at all. Have they designed in the powers they want to release to us for the next few expansions, are will they all be entirely new systems (AAXP, Adventure Points, Darkness Falls Seals, etc) because they didn't? Six month expansions are possible if the system is easily built upon, your Dev team is your Live team, and you know what you're about. Cryptic has done well so far, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. SOE on the other hand... if we see the Space Expansion before SWG's two year anniversary, I'll be shocked.

Guessing is fun and all, but ludicrous. It's nice to see the mythos of the "Holiday Season" still holds true with the proto economists though, even though the game we're discussing is launching, oh, a few months ahead of it :) Someday I'll be able to actually prove my conviction that MMOGs are much MUCH better off NOT launching at Christmas, and why the publishers agree with me :)

Here's a link to a thread of proposed additions (first post, a little way down):

http://www.coh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43725&highlight=Carnival+of+Shadows

I have an idea that CoV was announced as it is a showstopper, while the rest of the content is what you'd expect in an expansion. Plus I've also seen a number of threads saying "Now that pvp is going to be in, I'm going off to buy CoH for launch!"

Much as I don't like the idea of pvp in CoH, I'll wait and see what the system is before passing judgement.

And I'd expect an expansion by Christmas as well.

<fanboi> I find the message on the beta boards more interesting. "Thanks again Beta Testers, see you again soon" could be either 'see you at retail' or 'see you when CoV goes into beta.' </fanboi>

It seems as though my brain has wandered off...I'll go look for it now.

The people at Cryptic seem to have their heads on their shoulders (as opposed to being inserted into a body cavity).  I think I'll be checking out gamasutra in case they decide to speak some words of wisdom to the masses.

How well this expansion turns out could make or brake CoH, but I find the fact that they're far enough along to show some of it at E3 to be very encouraging.  I was a little afraid of the balancing issues that could come up putting villains and PVP in after release, but if they've been working on it for this long than there's a good chance it will fit in nicely.  Fucking Cryptic though man... I feel like when I stopped playing all those shit MMORPGs it was like I quit smoking or something and then Cryptic came along with some of that  Maui Wowie from Half Baked.  The better these guys get, the more I'm afraid of some horribe bait-and-switch, like when some hot-ass woman is hitting on you and you're looking for the Adam's apple, or a hidden camera somewhere.  Cryptic and CoH just seem almost too good to true at times, and I keep waiting for them to announce something like the "City of Crafting, 150 person raids, and Auto Attack" expansion.

While it's obviously too early to say much about this, my first thoughts weren't as positive as many....

1) I assume this will work on the daoc model (PC villans in Paragon as we know it today surely couldn't work?) with hero pve zones, villan pve zones, and rvr zones where we duke it out)

2) How do you balance the villan realm when numbers will start at zero and ramp up? (only thing I can think of is limiting rvr to inside instanced missions, created by some kind of matchmaker)

3) Almost everyone has stun, aoestun is far from rare....

4) Geometric power curve....

5) Melee archetypes very much rely on aggro management to be viable - you think chasing down fleeing *NPC* villans is a pain?

If it works then it sounds great, but just in design terms it seems like a bloody hard game to set up right.

I gotta agree with Eld on this one.  PvP balance or even parity seems nigh impossible for this game.  As a controller, one of your first available powers (should you choose the proper field) is a stun.  And it only gets worse from there.  Couple this with the fact ranged attackers don't have to worry about getting in close (ala AC) and you could have yourself a very one sided system.  Finally, what about Repel Field.  The PBAoE knockback or the PBAoE hold (forget the name but its a radiation power).  In any case, these powers make it extremely difficult for melee'ers in a pvp environment.

As much as I would love to duke it out with some PC heroes (good or bad), I find it difficult to be enthusiastic about a system with such a wide range of possible failures or balance issues in the battle of uber vs uber.

All of those concerns are really DAoC concerns. Sure, I suppose skills/archetype balance could be an issue, but then again, that's going into spreadsheet mode with the game. Of course, I don't want to be owned by everyone in the game as a Controller, but I have no delusions about which archetypes will suffer the most... tanks. Staying in melee range will be a real pain against other heroes, but then again, we could see more tank vs. tank fights with the ranged folked outside pulling CC and plinking off other ranged people trying to kill their tanks. I'm not sure though and I don't want to speculate on the system. Hopefully they will have a beta test of the expansion and hopefully some of us will get in it to see what they've come up with. But for right now, this is a fun game and I'm not going to pan their PvP although they won't do it right for everyone. Hell, DAoC's RvR is probably the best implementation of a PvP system to date and there are lots of folks who will say it sucks. It's the nature of the beast.

I understand that roots and dizzies can be broken, and assume that stuns can as well. CoV has already resolved a year's worth of bitching in DAoC :)

Otherwise, yea, balance hard. Particularly because our HPs and END increase with level.

The part where they said "lead your crime syndicate into battle" might carry a bit of weight.  There's been some discussions amongst the players on the beta boards about having an archetype built around working through third parties.   Much like The Shadow from the original radio broadcasts, these heros would operate as the brains behind an organization.    I wonder if this is what they're planning on implementing in City of Villians - the villians actually being the masterminds with a plethora of minions at their disposal.

That's kinda how I played my SWG guild leader. Well, as much as I could that way.

Another Lord Kitchener is born.

"He is not a great man. He is a great poster."

(http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ARTleete.jpg)

That could be neat I guess - if playing a villan ended up being something like this (http://www.howevilareyou.com/) or this (http://www.dungeonkeeper2.com/) then I'd be throughly impressed by the level of ambition.

DAoC Theurgist gone wild? :)

The paucity of pets in CoH is a another beacon of light for the game. They're there, but it seems like only at the highest levels. I'd very much prefer it stay that way. Pets screw everything up.

Besides the crowd control type of powers, my biggest concern with PVP in this game is HP. I want the fights to LAST, even with crowd control. I want the fights to feel somewhat epic, since we are no longer dealing with minions. Whether that means cutting down damage for PVP, or what, I'm not sure.

Haemish, Power Prestige Defense ?

If they come out with pvp they will need to add some lines of mez/hold resistance. There are Inspirations that do this but there would need to be some powers available to do this as well.

Many mobs already have them. All bosses and some LT's you need to land root twice before it takes effect and holds work in a similar fashion. Also there are abilitys to remove holds once they land but there are very few that make mezes land less.

Most tanks do however have a resist power vs mez things like wet ice for the ice tanks.

As long as heros and villans are treated like boss mobs for pvp hold/root checks it really should not be that bad. It would also mean more people would choose things like medicin power pool stimulant.

It would be pretty nifty if villans got minion powers that allowed them to produce or control lackies.

Kaid

Villans definitely need some lackeys, though I'd make it dependent on origins. People like the Joker is a very minion-oriented character, but I don't see guys like Venom or Bullseye using them much.

To be fair, thinking about the cc thing a little more, there are quite a few of powers that either increase resistance to, or cure mez/stun/root/dizzy. You don't tend to take them when building a character for pve, but if they were considered important for pvp probably more people would be interested.

Maybe it won't be all that bad - after all, you don't end up mezzed for that long when mobs use cc on you right now.

Certainly we aren't looking at anything as out of control as a DAoC launch chain mez/stun situation.

Yes most of the tank sets now that I look at them more closely do have usually one power designed to shurg off holds/sleeps/stuns. Wet ice from the ice armor set is one of the nicer ones and really shrugs cc effects off.

I would not want to go one on one pvp in city of heros but group vs group could be pretty fun.

kaid

You'd get one shotted from a roof top by an energy blaster with sniper shot and build up.  It's a one trick pony so if you were in a group then that blaster would get creamed unless maybe he was using super speed and did hit and runs.

In case you don't recognize the profile from every other MMOG ever: that sniper is going to have stealth, as well as a bot account logged on the other side of the map with Teleport Friend ready to go.

Hmm.. could be used as a good group tactic also... have a flyer up in the sky above the group ready to cast Teleport Enemy and drop them from the height.  Into the middle of the group for the easy kill... good way to get rid of controllers.. but probably a one shot tactic only...

The same could also be said for the controller. Take invis and take teleport. You see said sniper port behind his back and slap a hold on him. Sniper blasts have a long windup so if you see the attack coming it is not trough to intrupt it.

Also if you see a sniper and you cannot close range jump behind a fence or a wall. Sniper shots have TWO line of sight checks one to initiate the power and one to land the power. Sniper shots are powerful but they also have many limitations.


kaid

Sounds like a pain for PVE, but thats REALLY cool for PVP.

So I went to gamestop today and picked up CoH.

Along with their CoH boxes, Gamestop received preorder information for City of Villians.

$49.99, due out middle of November.

Original game required and CoV will be another complete city for Villians to adventure in with crossover areas for fighting Heroes.

I still want my damn instanced pvp missions.

hey whats up guys, i was just wondering what the realese date for COV is....i'm loving COH right now with that new update they just set up HOLY CRAP I LOVE IT!!!! to bad none of my chars are lvl 50 yet.....anyway if anyone knows then just reply to the post, thanks a lot

....

Another great showing for the homestate of myself and Schild.

By going to google and typing in "City of Villains release date" and then ENTER, I managed to solve your great query in 3.2 seconds.

Gasmespot says 8/05.  Others say 4/05.  Take your pick.  And please take some capital letters, commas, and periods from the grammar box on the way out.

Thanks.

Q4.

Maybe.

Don't forget my favorite trick; the overuse of semicolons.

A)  No one really knows how they're used, so if at any point I feel I need to use some form of punctuation a semicolon usually does nicely.

B)  I figure maybe I can revive this long abandoned punctuation mark.

Oh c'mon, semi-colons are not complicated. They are used to connect two independent clauses OR to separate items in a list that have commas already.

Example 1
Boog arrived at work early and started shooting people; two customers survived.

Yes, a period would work too.

Example 2
While Boog was on the lam, he hid out in Utica, NY; Lancaster, PA; and Tupelo, MS.

Clearly, using commas to separate those places would be cumbersome.

Pfft, try reviving the eñe.

Damn you for making me use this two days in a row.

(http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2003/20030707l.jpg)

The more I think of it, the more I believe it will be impossible to have a balanced PvP game with the PvE classes from CoH. They'll probably need to come up with totally different classes.

d

It'll be tough.  I expect that the villains will need totally different powersets and classes to make it work.

I have nightmares about my superjumping tank chasing a flying controller all over Faultline, me being imune to his holds and stuns, him being too far up for me to punce.

Please... Make it stop.

CoH's downfall could be if they try to cross balance the classes against each other for PvP. The dreaded PVP requirement, the bane of proper class balancing in a game where you PvE to level.

What they should do is borrow an idea from EQ, and make PVP specific changes that only affect PVP actions. Example would be how you cannot fear in PVP, while fear still works fine in PvE.

People might bitch about how it breaks the immersion to not be able to fear a player, but can fear monsters. Too bad, the seperation between PvE and PVP balance should exist in actual design. They are different, treat them differently.

I will absolutely play again for CoV.  I wouldn't mind having a guild of 5th Column-esque characters, either, like we were going to do before.  Maybe my character is still around, Damezerstörung.  I bet we can even get Prince Harry to join.

Small update:

Recent interview, Statesman said that the archetypes for City of Villains would be:
Brute
Stalker
Enforcer
Mastermind

He said that these are not duplicates of the CoH archetypes, but they are similar.

Lord Recluse, the designer for CoV, said that they do plan to allow a "Fallen Hero" system.  Or at least, they want to do it.  Who knows if that will change the character's archetype, but from what Recluse is saying it sounds like he wants it to be a core "You are evil now" change, rather than recreating the whole character.

They've repeatedly said that there is no determined release date.  Any date you see is purely speculation.

Stalker and Mastermind? Yes, I'll be signing up for CoH again - assuming the mastermind has something like dual stilletos or other ninja goodies. Mastermind had best be a controller that works like an RTS hero. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH THE POSSIBILITIES... That will never come to fruition.

imo....

brute=
(http://www.keystar-r-s.com/reviews/pics/comics/marvel/Rhino.jpg)

stalker=
(http://pages.infinit.net/heather/ad_deadpool.gif)

enforcer=
not a clue

mastermind=
(http://www.patelisentertainment.ca/images/forsale/comics/marvel/magneto.jpg)[/img]

I was thinking Enforcer would be like Cable or Forge. But bad. They'll just be more blasters. Guaranteed.

As far as mastermind goes, if these classes all end up being proxies of the CoH classes. I'll just be a pile of pissed.

I don't really see how they can avoid proxies for the hero ATs.

But I do expect the powerset choices to be unique.

The powerset categories that define an AT; Defence, Melee Offence, Ranged Offence, Control, Pets, Buff, and Debuff are so generic that it's hard to see CoV ATs not being made up the same way.

My first half thought out guess at a possibility...

Brute = Defence + Melee
Stalker = Control + Melee
Enforcer = Ranged + Debuff
Mastermind = Buff/Pets + Control

Though I equally wouldn't be remotely surprised if they are direct AT copies with new powersets.

Brute = Tanker/Scrapper
Stalker = Controller
Enforcer = Blaster
Mastermind = Defender

Stalker = Rogue = Scrapper
Brute = Tank
Enforcer = Blaster
Mastermind = Controller

There are no "Defenders" for evil. It is the paladin. The word represents too much good. Defender-style powers will be exclusively the domain of secondary powersets.

No - this isn't real information, it's just what seems to be what's happening.

If true (and it might be), then there will be a wailing and gnashing of teeth like you have never seen (since the last time at least).

The most powerful group in the game is 8 defenders (something like 3 Rad 1 Storm 1 FF 2 Kin 1 Emp, all with psy secondary). If you are designing a group from scratch in pve, there is an argument for adding controllers, but the massive amount of status protection available to players will make cc moot in pvp.

The reason for this is that with a full set of defenders it is not hard to cap damage, defence, resistence, status protection and accuracy on every member, then on top of that you have a group where everyone can do ranged PSYCHIC damage (people are starting to work out that defenders do perfectly adequate damage once fully slotted), everyone can heal other members (most can do it pbaoe style) several members can run powers that prevent enemies reaching melee range, and additionally you'll have a ton of buffs for +run speed, +end, +recharge, +regen, etc etc.

The downside is that you have to organise the group before you can do anything. As in all MMOGs, organised people will dominate PvP, and as a result I fully expect 8 man */psy defender groups to become the first pvp fotm.

Alright, let's play the continuity card? Who the hell would want to play an EVIL DEFENDER? It doesn't make sense. The wookie lives on Endor (http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/sounds/214/214_chewbacca.wav).

In all seriousness, I just can't see a mastermind not being a controller. That's what they do - control. They do nothing else. They manipulate and make subjects do all their work. From James Bond to Austin Power to Evil Genius to George Burns to Magneto. They all made little bitches out of 'stupider' evil beings.

I can't even think of an actual evil defender. A defender thinks before he shoots. Evil shoots first and asks questions later.

Why be Captain America when you can be Ego, destroyer of worlds. Or, if you prefer to think on a smaller scale, Magneto/Dr. Doom/whoever.

I can see the continuity problem with healing (though I can't see a mmorpg being made without it any time soon). But the key defining features of a defender playstyle in coh are debuffing, buffing, and ranged damage.

I see no problem at all with debuffing and ranged damage. And having a criminal group enhancing their members with buffs doesn't seem too crazy (call them superdyne effects, prayers to evil gods, putting the fear of god into your allies, or whatever).

I think you're getting too much into the defender rp concept.

I agree I can't imagine a defender of villians. But I can imagine a buff/debuff/ranged-damage villian.

I agree mastermind might be a controller, or might be a pet / buff / debuff guy, or might be something else.

Just saying I can't see CoV not having a primary buff/debuff AT (if not now then certainly by the end of beta) simply becuase when playing in groups, massively stacked buffs are everything in Paragon city. When you play CoH in a solid 40+ group, the buff icons that appear next to the group window should stretch from one side of the screen to the other, and your video card should screaming at you for the twelve metric asstonnes of buff particle effects that you are asking it to draw; your costume should be completely obscured by the flames, sparkles, rainbows, glows, and auras of goodness that are streaming out of every pore. If Paragon city had a fire service, then 40+ heroes would never get anything done as they would be continually accosted by large men with hoses desperate to prevent third degree burns setting in as a result of your pyrotechnic magnificence.

This is also why people at high levels fight +4s, wheras at low levels you are most efficient hunting -1s.

Looks like CoV will be alot more streamlined. Perhaps Cryptic is trying to avoid issues like the constant "Scrappers tank aswell as Tanks" and "Controllers make Defenders redundant".

Evil Defenders:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=543

Haven, a villainess in the X-Men continuity, had extremely powerful healing abilities.  She used these powers to form a cult with the ultimate goal of moving the world into its utopian stage- by causing enough massive disasters to wipe out 2/3rds of the population.  She would be an empathy defender, no question.

http://jl.toonzone.net/shade/shade.htm

I don't know if The Shade ever showed up in the comics, but this guy has Dark Defender written all over him.



Remember, we're talking about core strategies here.  The nature of a character's powers don't necessarily imply virtue or sin as do fantasy staples such as Paladins and Clerics.  Philosophically, you can still be a villain with the ultimate goal of healing (such as Dr. Vahzilok, who is trying to overcome death).  Strategically, there's no reason a group of villains wouldn't want someone around to keep their asses as free of bullet holes as possible.

And let's not forget, CoH Defenders aren't necessarily healers.  Their role is utility.  Radiation Defenders don't have a lot of healing, but they're still pretty damn useful.

I really do think the Stalker will be scrapper-like.

One thing I'm really curious about- how will epic archetypes translate?  We've got at least 2 more on the way for heroes; will warshades/peacebringers be able to be villains, will there be an equivalent right off the bat, or are villains just going to get these 4 at release?

Now, for my wild and unsubstantiated theory-
Controllers are being merged with Defenders.  Defender powersets have wild variation from one to the other of exactly what role they play, while Controllers all play the same role in slightly different ways.  Illusion's light on control with a bit more damage, Earth has a lot of control with decent damage, Mind has tons of control with not much damage, but that's about it.  They all have their AE holds, they all have their single holds.  They all do the same stuff, just in slightly different ways.  The end goal is that they protect the team and let them operate more efficiently by keeping enemies locked down.  But really, that's what Defenders do- they protect the team and let them operate more efficiently.  As much as I love Controllers, the core design behind them could be merged with Defenders.

So if anyone's getting cut, I'd say it's Controllers.  The powers will still be available, but all in one archetype.  Hell, make a storm/dark defender and you're practically a controller anyway.  You'll have knockbacks, 2 AE disorients, a cone root, and a pet.

I guess the /real/ reason Controllers are separate is because of the secondary powerset choice.  Defenders are hybrids, Controllers are pure support.  Same thing that makes Blasters and Scrappers different- both of them deal in damage, but Scrappers get defense while Blasters get a little utility.

They're screwed either way.  If the CoV ATs map onto the CoH ATs directly, people will complain that the villains are just like the heroes.  If they don't directly correlate, then players of AT "X" will complain that they can't make an evil version of their main.

Of course if CoV allows heroes to go bad, then they would be covered there.  Its odd that they haven't come to a conclusion as to if/how to do this, because it would seem to have large ramifications for possible villain ATs and powersets.  No reason to make an evil copy of a scrapper AT it actual scrappers can just go evil.

I guess ideally, villains would have been available at release, and every AT could simply decide to go good or bad.  Oh well.

You might be right, espeicially since any well organised team is impossible to apply cc to.

Mastermind being primary buff/debuff, secondary pets and a little control for pve would make sense in an environment where a large portion of characters will be deisgned from the ground up for pvp.

Here's a good CoV info source (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2028144&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#2028144) if you haven't seen it yet.

Well...That's encouraging. At least on the PvE side of things.

Cool

I'd rather Zeb buy the rights to planescape and make an mmorpg in the world of doors.

Of course, I just can't have nice things.