f13.net

So I just got a hold of the complete Samurai Champloo series, the spiritual successor to Cowboy Bebop, by Shinichrio Watanabe, and I'm digging it.  Instead of classic rock/western space opera, its your standard Meji era wandering swordsmen story with a sort of an early 90s DJ/hip-hop vibe.  And the action sequences have his trademake originality and fluidity.  However its too early to tell if the series can work the music, themes, and art into a cohesive whole like Cowboy Bebop did, but here is hoping.

Reccomended Shinichiro Viewing:
Kid's Story (Animatrix)
A Detective Story (Animatrix)
Cowboy Bebop
Macross Plus

It ain't Cowboy Bebop. That's for sure. I watched it a while ago, and well, I liked Kenshin more. particularly due to the OVA and Kyoto Arc (of course). Maybe though, since Fabricated went on and on about it last night, I'll pick it up.

Eh, it was pretty good, but the drastic changes in the quality of animation really annoyed me. If the fight between Mugen and Sara had been animated with the same quality and standards as the stuff in the first couple of episodes it would have been great. But instead it looked piss poor and was relatively boring. I also had a nagging feeling in the back of my head that a lot of things in the show were borrowed from Blade of the Immortal - which really, really deserves to be animated.

But then again I like Naruto. Reminds me of Harry Potter, except with ninjas instead of wizards.

It almost tries too hard to be stylish IMO, but it's really fun to watch. The Kenshin OVA was pretty cool, but the TV series sucked when it got to the Kyoto Arc and got worse and worse afterwards (Shishiyo is one of the lamest villains in anime history. "HI, MY POWER IS BEING BURNED REALLY BAD.")

Where the hell did you get the whole series unless you got maybe Japanese DVDs or fansubs? There's only 2 DVDs out in America right now.

Most of the Kenshin I watched was fansubs, well before it came to US as Samarai X.  I've heard the Samarai X sub voices are really odd...  but that's pretty typical of anime subs.  I enjoyed the Kenshin I saw... which was quite a bit, but in no particular order.  I just can't sit down and watch stuff like most people seem to.  Passive == boring after an hour.

Haven't seen this new series, tho Bebop was enjoyable.

Alkiera

Digisubs - AnimeForever.  Champloo is harder to find now that its licensed but its out there.

Remember that store that got raided by the FBI a few months back? I worked there. They sold imports bootlegs.

Champloo is fun but it is not the second incarnation of bebop, the only purpose the hip-hop serves are scene changes and Mugen's fighting style.  You get to ep14-15 when a serious storyline kicks in and all of a sudden its your typical anime fare with a slow female japanese vocalist..

I like it, but dont love it.

@Kenshin:  OVA = good (Samurai X, although why he wore pink I'll never know), series = shit on a stick..

I'm going to have to check out some of that other stuff, esp Macross Plus I'd already heard good things about it and I love the combat (mecha + transformers + top gun = WIN) just wish the stories weren't always so stupid and often very dated.

Macross Plus is great. The overall use of sound is fantastic. It's pretty different from other Macross things as well, I don't think the story is stupid or dated at all.

I've watched the whole series (fan subs) and absolulty loved it.  Its serioulsy (in my opinion) one of the best animes to come out in a long time (I haven't really liked much of anything the last few years).  It doesn't take itself seriously, and has some of the most fucking hilarious moments I have ever seen on screen.  Some episodes had me laughing through the entire thing.  Pure comedy gold.  Its also done very stylishly, and I really liked the animation overall.  I would recommend to anybody.  I think its unfair to compare this to Kenshin though, as that was primarily a serious wondering-samurai-mejii-era series, while this is more of a comedy spoof of those.  I agree about the Kenshin OAV though, was very excellent (Trust & Betrayal, the first one.  The second about Kenshins later years sucked ass).

I didn't really know what to make of it at first, as it took me a bit to get use to the jarring switchs between dark serious moments and slap stick monty python-ish comedy.  But its just really damn good.  Probably one of the more original animes to come out recently as well.  Give it a try.

By the way, anybody know how the English Dubs are for the American release?  The dubs have gotten a little better in recent years, and I actually prefered the English dubs to the original for Cowboy Bebop, which gives me some hope these will be well done also.

*cough, retch*

The english dubbing on Cowboy Bebop were absolute shit. Unbearable, and I'm not even a dub snob. I have a real issue getting immersed when no characters sound like I'd imagine them to. The only anime I've seen that had truly good dubbing was Colorful (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000844J6/qid=1115892631/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i7_xgl74/002-6093899-6955249?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846) (which was absolutely brilliant). Those people at least sounded like they had fun - and you found out they actually did have fun on a behind the scenes/making of doc on the dvd. I don't even like the Studio Ghibli dubs filled with famous people. Basically if I can't look on screen and imagine that voice coming out of a characters mouth, I have issues with the anime/live action/video game from beginning to end. Claire Danes as San in Princess Mononoke nearly made me choke on my own vomit - which I was lying in after watching the english dub.

Edit: I feel that I should point out that I've found the dubs of stuff that gets put on TV are generally the worst. Fullmetal Alchemist, Cowboy Bebop, etc - they just turned out positively awful. FMA was particularly a rushjob. Fucking hacks. But I imagine in most cases, the stuff that gets put on TV are the ones handled with the least amount of care because a celebrity isn't going to sit around and record a 13-26-xx episode long season when they could be doing actual movies. So they get Joe Average Dickhead. I fear for what's going to happen to Jungle Wa. The voice acting for Guu is going to need to be the best ever chosen.

WHo has the license? Better hope it's not 4kids. Everything they've touched has been horrible. What they did to One Piece is an abomination.

Animenation (yes, the store). All they've done is Miami Guns and Risky Safety. Neither of which I've seen. Neither of which is probably anywhere near the craziness of Hale Guu. I don't imagine they're up to the task. Casting Guu will be damn near impossible. They have to find a young girl with the most emotionless voice possible. And they ain't buying Dakota Fanning (who could probably pull it off).

Fuck, it makes me angry just thinking about it.

I had no problem with the Cowboy Bebop dubs. /shrug

FMA is shit before you even consider the dubs.

I thought Cowboy Bebop dub was ok, and Princess Mononoke was pretty good. How can you not like Keith David and Gillian Anderson?

yup -- loved Bebop (got em all), loved Champloo (got subs of em all).  Prefer to read subs anyday than voiceover estimates.  Watanabe indeed rox my world as well.

BTW: I think I heard correctly that Adult Swim is being spun off by TWX as its own channel. 

God you know I haven't asked for much...

Uh, you do realise that Bebop was designed to be dubbed first and foremost right?

As for FMA, it's perfectly fine. The fucking Japanese voices suck IMO.

The voices were utter ass. I don't care what it was designed for.

There's no accounting for bad taste I guess.

You're right. I can't imagine why you would admit to liking that abortion of a dub.

I dunno what to say really, there's just no accounting for that much bad taste.

ZOOOMMM

(http://img183.echo.cx/img183/6804/heyyoukids106qy.jpg)

Sub > Dub.

Dubs are only ok for comedy shows (I found the dub of Full Metal Panic worked fine -great fucking show imo) but watching the dub of Bebop on Adult Swim just makes me want to go to my comp and watch the real version.

There are relatively few dubs that I enjoy, but Bebop was one of them. After a rocky start, I thought Melissa Charles made a more surreal Ed than the original Japanese voice actress.

...the dub IS the real version.

Also, wierd fact: Ed's character was designed to be similar to Yoko Kanno in attitude/personality. Yoko Kanno is probably VERY STRANGE.

The Cowboy Bebop english voice-overs are some of the best I've heard for anime. However, we all know that once someone makes up an opinion for themselves (after hearing the english voices for 10 seconds after watching most of the series dubbed ) there is never any going back.

I do normally watch anime with the original soundtrack and subtitles, - even with Berserk the english voice acting sucked ass but you could tell they had a little fun with it from watching the english voice-over outtakes. I still prefer subtitles though and find that I generally don't even give new anime series a chance at the dubs: it's switched to original soundtrack before it even starts playing.

Its pretty much a moot point now though, because most good fansubs are dual audio right? 

Cowboy Bebop was one of .. uh, two features I liked better dubbed.

If it is dual audio, then it sure as hell isnt a fan sub.  Anything Dual Audio is likely to be a DVD rip.  In which case, the subtitle track will most likely be the corporate labels subs, and not any Fan Groups subs.

In my opinion, Subs > Dubs, no exceptions.  First, because listening to them talk in Japanese is part of the presentation (vocal inflections, all that jaz) which is a key element of what gets lost in an English Adaption, and second, because unless you speak Japanese fairly well, 9 times out of 10, if the Jap voice actor actually sucks, you cant tell anyhow (the same can not be said for a bad Dub in your native tongue....OnePiece......stabbing sharp objects in ears...make the hurting stop.....)

As someone I know once said: Watching Dubbed Anime is like making Sushi with Hotdogs.  If you arent going to bother appreciating the item the way it was ment to be, why bother in the first place?

I'm not an anime art fag, so I really don't give a damn.

I'll take my English VO's so i can watch and not read, kthx.

And if you don't speak or understand Japanese, you just stupidly assume the subtitles are more correct than the dub when they are usually just as "wrong". Also, if you don't understand Japanese, you're not going to get any of the plays on words or most of the cultural references anyway. Unless 4Kids got the job, the dub more often than not is perfectly fine for people who don't like to pretend they somehow understand a foreign language they don't speak better than their native tongue.


Which is why the King James version of the Bible doesn't exist anymore, along with the original book of the Seven Rings, or The Art of War, or uh...ANY foreign language book or movie that greatly influenced culture through being translated into several different languages? You realise how fucking stupid that sounds?

I never intended to infer that a sub would have a vastly superior translation then a Dub, however, I still stand by the fact that I would rather watch the show with origional Japanese dialogue and english subs, then with English Dialogue. (hell, in some cases, a corporate DVD simply has a word for word sub of their own dub, witch is in many cases blatantly wrong).

One of my best friends is currently living in japan studying the language, and he is ALWAYS bitching about how sub-par many sub groups translations are.

Still, the sub groups that actually care (and arent engaged in a big battle of e-peens to see who can get a particular ep of a partular show out first) usually put a phenominal amount of effort into their subs to ensure accuracy, and in many cases, also highlight many of those cultural references and the signifigance behind them.


And how many of those works have been fucked up and edited (King James Bible eh?) by people with a vested interest in seeing said work translated with their personal view?  Sure, they had some great influence on our culture and society after translation, but how many people are still interested in checking out the origional work, with a slightly less hammerfisted level of translation (sub vs dub preserves more of the origional presentation).

I mean, which would actually be a more relevant study of a particular work?  A look at Beowulf, as completely translated into modern english, with none of the origional work present, or beowulf, as origionally written, with english translations occompanying?

If you can't understand the work in its original form, then it's presence is moot.

IE: college is a waste of time

A lot of my DVDs have two sets of subtitles. One is the dub word-for-word and the other is the relatively more precise translation. Odd that they'd bother doing both.


I took 4 years of it in High School with a very good teacher. He had us watch a lot of stuff without subtitles since he thought the translation job on a lot of them were "shit". I vividly remember a good friend of mine bringing in some of his fansub DVDs to watch. He laughed and said they were so poorly done we'd be better off just trying to listen ourselves.


That's about the same as someone telling you why a joke is funny when you don't get it.


And yet Christianity wouldn't be anywhere near as widespread today without it.


They'd both be exactly the same to you if you didn't understand the original language.

I have in excess of ten thousand dollars worth of anime DVDs, and none of them have separate subtitle and dubtitle cues. The closest I've seen is the amazing job TRSI did splitting Kare Kano into dub and sub versions. Where did you get these?

That's more than what I made on my W-2's for 2004.  :|

If someone genetically combined the two of you they might end up with a person with a normal salary.

Naw, keep things the way they are. If you do that, you'd end up with some douchebag who works at a shitty studio like Monkeystone...oh, wait...

My Samurai Champloo DVDs have separate dubtitles as well, but I can't get them to display in PowerDVD.

You made me download HypersnapDX. Ugh.

(http://img50.echo.cx/img50/613/snap67xg.jpg)

The main guy from Spirit Detectives (forgot the full title) is also in Samurai Champloo? Cool!

Note that I said "My Samurai Champloo DVDs have separate dubtitles as well", jackass.

Ah, punchy-kicky shows. That explains it; I'm not fond of the genre. I'd like to get Champloo, but Geneon discs are $40-$45 in Canada. Which I could see if every other company didn't sell at prices comparable in Canadian dollars to their US equivalent.


That's accumulated over the course of five years. Which is still a lot, I know...

It's not so much that, but I was only working 6 hours/week during my semesters...and I'm not even working this summer, so I'll be making even less this year...

3 cheers for college poverty?

I think Stormwaltz is racing me.

Champloo was a ripoff here too at $24 or so per DVD.

How can you have that much anime without any action series or shojou? Don't tell me you're into stuff from people like Rumiko Takahashi with the PHd level love geometry?

Champloo is ass. The music is WRETCHED and it's trying to be slick Tarantino-style. You can see the vein pulsing in it's forehead. It's just another show that goes on the ridiculously long list of total shit. I'm also miffed that MADLAX sucks. I own 400 or so anime discs and depressingly enough, only about 8 of the series are actually worth owning. Kenshin, Kare Kano, FLCL, Abenobashi, Bubblegum Crisis (the original), Cowboy Bebop, Noir (even if onlyfor the music, which is amazing, Seesaw is awesome), and Colorful. I will buy Jungle Wa as it comes out. But then, I thought Last Exile waspretty Meh. Along with a lot of other shit people like.

Oh and once more, dubs sound like ass. And I realized why last night. English voices coming out of anime characters is just too fucked up. Maybe it's because the first anime I saw was on USA when I was like 8 years old (Vampire Hunter D) and it was subtitled. Or maybe it's because english voice actors across the board for near everything sound like shit. Part of the appeal is that I don't see the actor behind the character. When I hear Claire Danes or someone recognizable behind an anime character, my brain says, "No, you stop the fuck right there, what are you listening to? A cartoon or Claire Motherfucking Danes?! Stop fucking with me."

If that's in Canadian Dollarz (lol) that's not too many. You're on par with your average dvd fanatic. When you start going to Futureshop and picking up 40 dvds at a time, that's when you're in trouble.

/punches self.

You're a media whore.

I smell intervention.

I smell my boot in your ass, cracker.

Schild, you step in something?

No.





Just...




No.

You're too white to wear "those" kind of boots, OR say cracker, you Crackah.

*makes note to "obtain" and watch Schild's 8*

I really liked Noir, many have said they did not, and the Kenshin OVA (the series was weak imo) but haven't seen the rest except Bebop which I consider a given.

If you stopped spending all this money on things you wouldn't feel as bad...  I buy things I know dont suck, for example had I spent money on Technolyze I might have killed somebody instead I watched half, deleted and made a note to avoid Serial Experiment Lain even though I had intended to watch it.

It can be hard to find good anime, which is one of the reasons I will usually watch at least the first 2 disks on rental from Netflix - if i like it enough I'll buy the set.

I thought Last Exile was pretty good.. the art is good and story setting is interesting.

Yea - then it totally fell apart. First two DVD's were great.

Noir, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, FLCL and just about anything by studio ghibli would be on my suggestion list.

Quadruple+ Win for You.

Finally finished the series, it was so close to greatness but yet so far on several levels.


*****SPOILERS INC! DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE SHOW*****


-Music was very meh.
-It was obvious that the people involved dont have enough of a grasp on hip-hop culture to make the whole thing work.  The tagger episode was silly at best and other then Mugen's fighting style (which failed him horribly at the end) and the odd scene changes it was more of a drag on the series then anything else.
-Bebop was episodic in a good way, Champloo was not.  You just dont go from the 2 part blind assassin ep's to the two most random shows in the series (baseball and zombies) where suddenly they aren't even traveling.
-The end was a bit of a dissapointment after they led me to believe that Fuu had fallen for Mugen but whatever almost every anime ends poorly it seems.

Solid show and worth watching, it was visual pleasing (fight scenes were fluid and nice) and the story was great although like I said it got tangled up at the end.


\/\/\/\/\/
Yeah thats my point, she chooses Mugen and Jin sends him to save her, which he does.  Then they get better and everybody just walks away from eachother.  Also let me point out the Bebop movie fits in somewhere between 22-25 I forget where exactly but you dont want to watch it at the end.

I like romance in my rpg's and my anime, so sue me.

she did -- there's that moment by the river with Jin where she sort of chooses Mugen (its a flashback in second episode too).  Very ending leaves it totally open for another series, or at least a movie like BeBop. 

I just want to reiterate what Furiously said about his one, as I loved the first half as well.  The second half made me REALLY hate this anime.  It completly fell apart in a crap fest of Jr. High level whinning drama.  Dear god, I wanted EVERY character to die by the end, except maybe the captain, because he never opens his mouth.  The main characters start crying over every stupid little thing.  I can only take "Really?  Your my friend? *sniff* *sniff*  I have friends!" type bullshit so much, and it starts comming from almost every main character, several times and episode.  Not to mention the ending absolutly sucks, as you realize they created a cool world but forgot to actually figure out a story for it.

So yeah, it started out having me think it was one of the coolest animes in awhile, then had me wishing everybody on the project was shot by the end.
Heh, the baseball episode may be my favorite episode of anything ever made (but I am a baseball and history fan, so it had appeal).  Freakin hilarious.
The Zombie episode was actually suppose to air during Halloween in Japan (before the series got delayed), so it was more of a special episode, though I didn't really like it.  Was suppose to have all sorts of references to a bunch of different horror movies in it though.

But when you watch them in sequence all at once its fucking annoying that those two come right after the two part bitching blind assassin eps.

I wonder what kind of money would have to be tossed around for Watanabe to write a story and Mizoguchi to make the game.

Can Mizoguchi make a platformer/action game? Can Watanabe write a story for a game?

These are the kinds fo things you think about when your brain is running on EMPTY.

I'm underwhelmed by Champloo thus far.  I still want to watch it, but it's not fantastic.  I foresee missing many an episode in the future and not particularly caring.  It's rare that the commercial for a show is better than the actual show itself.

That is less than I gave the IRS in 2004, after subtracting my so-called "return".  I suggest you move into the space above my garage and perform menial tasks, such as defending my compound when I declare independence.  Bring your own ammo.