f13.net

So, since I know that there are quite a few Skinny Puppy fans that read these boards, I thought I'd point out to anyone that doesn't already know, there is going to be a new albumn.  The Greater Wrong of the Right is coming out on May 25th.  You can preorder it through Metropolis records at this link (http://www.industrial-music.com/product.php?prodnum=SPV+63722).  

If you are less than scrupulous the new cd is already floating around the 'net.  The ripped version that has been floating around for a couple of weeks now has at least 2 ripping/mixing errors that I've heard (and have been acknowledged by cEvin kEy's roomate who performs on the album).  This is one of those CDs that even if you download it, you need to go buy it when it comes out, these guys aren't your standard Metallica sized superstars with huge bankrolls, they depend on cd sales to survive.

I'm not saying that I've listened to the CD illegally, but if I had I'd say that it's pretty decent.  It sounds better than The Process, but it's a little more produced than any SP albums that came out before The Process.  The first half reminds me of the excellent ohGr CDs that were created by Ogre and Mark Walk.  One of the best songs on the CD "Neuwerld" is one of the songs with the worst ripping error (or least we assume it's an error, this is Skinny Puppy) on the image that is floating around, but it's still a great song to listen to.  Other great tracks that are worth checking out are "I'mmortal", "Past Present", and "Use Less".  Very catchy tunes, Nivek is much more confident in his vocals today than he was during any of SP's earlier CDs except maybe The Process.  One downside is, you can definitely feel the lack of Dewayne Gottel's presence on the CD.

The musical preferences of the people around here continue to impress me.

That's probably the thing that brought me to Waterthread in the first place ("Good taste at a gaming site? How strange").

I've stopped downloading music, so I'll just have to wait I guess. The Process was their worst I think, so I'll take anything over that.

That's something that I didn't make clear above, The Process is by far my least favorite Skinny Puppy album.  When I said "It sounds better than The Process" I meant "At least it wasn't as bad as it could have been."

I like it, but I really like the the WELT ohGr CD, and the first half the album reminds me of that CD.  If you liked ohGr's stuff then I think you'll be at least happy with this CD.  If you don't like ohGr you can at least look forward to the fact that they'll probably tour to support the album and you may get a chance to see them live.  Of course right now there are only two North American dates on the tour, Chicago and Philadelphia so if you live near those two cities you're a lucky fucker.  I'm hoping they expand the tour to a full blown NA tour so I can see them.

For those interested in tour dates, this site (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/sptravel2004/Frames.html) seems to be the best place for all the upcoming dates and rumors of more dates.  Just in the last few day's that site has added a new tidbit of info, the opening act (Tweaker) has confirmed he will be performing "15-16 dates from early June to early July," so things sound good for a SP tour around North America... yay us!

I'd also like to point out that the new Hanson album came out this week.

More to add, if you go to this site (http://www.spv.de/skinnypuppy/default.html) it's the record label's new flash site promoting the album.  The full song "I'mmortal" plays in the background as you view the site.  If you're morally opposed to downloading the album at least you can hear the first song on the CD legally!

I can't see a damn thing morally wrong to pirating it before lauch IF YOU BUY THE CD when it comes out.  Or if you delete all copies of the song after you determine you don't like it.

Not that I am always morally correct, but for those few artists I REALLY like I make a point to buy their stuff.  As would any real fan.

I agree with Alluvian.

ahem,

<psa>

Don't turn this thread into a conversation about the moral implications of downloading music. That horse is long dead.

</psa>

Okay, I never got around to buying any skinny puppy albums.  I enjoy their music but am just AWFUL with song or album names.  I don't currently have any mp3's of theirs even and I am past my music pirate days.

Any suggestions on the order the albums should be purchased in?  Best to worst listing of albums/singles would be great.  And I understand it is subject to personal opinion.

(see?  I am trying to get the thread back on track already)

The order I'd personally buy them in if I had to buy them all again:

Bites
Too Dark Park
Last Rights
Remission
VIVIsectVI
Mind:  The Perpetual Intercourse
Cleanse Fold and Manipulate
Rabies
The Process

However, if you like Heavy Metal more than you like Industrial/EBM music you would probably want to move the guitar heavy CDs, The Process and Rabies, to the top of the list.  For references sake I'll tell you a song that I think best incorpates each CD so you can listen to them and see which CDs most have the sound you like:

Bites - "Assimilate"  one of my all time favorite SP songs
Too Dark Park - "Spasmolytic"
Last Rights - "Love In Vein"
Remission - "Smothered Hope" or "Far to Frail"
VIVIsectVI - "VX Gas Attack" or "Testure"
Mind:  The Perpetual Intercourse - "God's Gift (Maggot)"
Cleanse Fold and Manipulate - "Addiction"
Rabies - "Rodent" "Worlock" or "Tin Omen"
The Process - "Curcible"

Finding those songs will give you an "idea" of what each album sounds like, you can then decide which sounds best suit you.  Here (http://www.monmouth.com/~sgoldberg/albums.htm) is a list of all the SP albums and the order in which they came out.  You can click on the CDs to see the songs and click on the songs to see the lyrics.

Yeah, I have been doing some snooping on Itunes for the 30 second snippets.  They actually have a pretty complete selection.  I think they were only missing the Process of those you listed and had a few single and remix ablums as well.

Very industrial a I remember it, and I like that sort of thing.  I am not really liking the vocals as much as I recall though.  Sounds like he is trying to sing in his 'scary voice' and it is just coming across as phony to me in a bad rahmstein (can't spell that) kind of vocal way.  It is not so on all the songs/albums but a few of them I have heard actually made me chuckle a little.

I find I liked the vocals abit better on the song from the new album that plays in the background of the site listed here (I'mmortal).  Even though it is still heavily digitally distorted, I like the sound better as an instrument than the heavily gutteral sound in much of Too Dark Park (again in 30 second snippets so I can't judge too well).  Musically I have liked pretty much all of it though.

I guess it has been longer than I thought since I listened to SP.  Back in college and those days just feel closer than they are somedays.  Will take some re-acclimation.  I did really like that one new song though.  Maybe that makes me some sort of wuss or something.

Or maybe too much NIN has gotten me overly accustomed to a higher pitched voice.

My wife remembers it clearer than I and still really likes it.  Being a british columbian native she would have heard a lot more of it than me who just heard it through friends.  Will buy some albums if I see them in my next cd shopping spree or just take the lazy route and grab them of Itunes at $9.90 each.

Well, the vocalist, Nivek Ogre was never a trained vocalist, which is one of the major reasons SP sounded like they did.  cEvin kEy had the idea to start an experimental band (he was in a pop band in the late 70s/very early 80s but he really wanted to do something a bit more artistic).  Through strange chance he met Nivek Ogre, who was trying to become a William S. Burroughs style writer, and they ended up putting together a song called K-9 in which the lyrics are written from the perspective of a dog that is being abused.  That collaboration eventually led to the formation of Skinny Puppy which at first was just cEvin kEy making all of the music and Nivek Ogre writing the lyrics and performing the vocals.

The whole idea of the band is to shock the audience through visceral imagery (both in music and via a live act) to make them react to the terrible things that are happening in the world.  The name Skinny Puppy really shows the roots of the band, the original concept of the band was an animal rights band.  They are also very very big horror movie fans and a lot of the sounds they use are taken directly from horror movies.

Anyways, Nivek's voice is supposed to sound scary in an attempt to provoke a visceral reaction from the listener so he'll react to the music and help make the world a better place.. or something close to that.. It's only recently (on the ohGr CDs and the new SP stuff) that Nivek has become less self conscious and has started using more vocal range and less processing with his voice.  Most of the stuff from Last Rights and before (the stuff that they made 1992 and before) is sung/whispered/screamed/spoken through very heavy distortion, then extreme amounts of gated reverb to give it that robotic sound that you hear.

Another thing, if you like "I'mmortal" you should consider checking out the ohGr CDs, a side project band of Nivek's that has two CDs.  I personally like Welt more than I like SunnyPsyOp but they are both good CDs and Itunes has SunnyPsyOp last I checked.  The song "maJiK" on SunnyPysOp is really awesome and you can download the full maJiK video here (http://www.process.org/makingmag.htm) which will let you preview the song and see a cool video.  You can also preview some other ohGr tracks at http://www.ohgr.org/.  Note:  maJiK is very Anti-Bush and the video depicts Bush in a bad light, so if you like President Bush be prepared for some politics that may displease you.



Speaking of which, Trent Reznor claims to be a huge Skinny Puppy fan (one of the bands that got him into writing music).  In fact, he claims that he went to a Skinny Puppy concert where they performed the song "Dig It" (off the albumn Clense Fold and Manipulate) and the thought it was so awesome he went home and wrote his first song, "Down In It" which is a major rip off (but in good taste) of "Dig It".  Listen to the songs back to back and you'll see that they are very very similar.

Trent Reznor performed one song, "Suck", with a band called Pigface which happens to be a project of ex-Public Image Ltd. drummer Martin Atkins.  Pigface is made up of everyone who is anyone in the industrial music world, including Nivek Ogre, as well as members of KMFDM, Ministry, Throbbing Gristle/Pyschic TV, and the list goes on.  On the NIN cd, Broken, Trent Reznor covers the song Suck as track 99 on the CD I have (or as a bonus disc on the first few printings of the CD).  Anyways kinda interesting that Reznor got to work with Ogre (or at least with a band that Ogre also worked with) since Reznor claims that Skinny Puppy was an early influence for his music.

I'm thinking of putting an f13 net radio thing together at the request of my roommate. It would mostly be Industrial/Dark/Goth/Synthpop/Folk shit.

You all interested?

It would have things such as:

Peter Murphy/Bauhaus
Apoptygma Berzerk
VNV Nation
Evil's Toy
Skinny Puppy
Frontline Assembly/Synesthasia/other Side Projects of Leeb and Co.
Iris
Bella Morte
Bigod 20
Blondie
Xymox
Cosmicity
Covenant
David Bowie
Echo Image
Hanzel und Gretyl
In the Nursery
Kraftwerk
Joy Division
Melotron
Mesh
NIN (early stuff)
Ravenous
Silke Bischoff
SPOCK
Statemachine
The Cure

I could go on, but you get it. I used to have a radio show here at school and the show was pretty popular, I can probably dig up a few playlists from back in teh day and put the shit backtogether if anyone shows any interest.

I like internet radio, but will admit to not knowing some of the groups you listed.  The ones I did know I liked.

You listed NIN (older stuff) and I am wondering what you call old/new.  Downward spiral old still to you?  Probably my favorite album from NIN is pretty hate machine.  Do you not like the new stuff or just find it abit too derivative?  I remember buying the Fragile double cd set, listening to it twice and not really liking it and shelving it.  Then my wife saw it and had not heard it so I listened to it again with her a few weeks back after not having touched it since purchase.  I really like it now.  I guess my tastes are changing.

Would you play any of the older Prodigy stuff or do you not like that?
What about Front 242?

Oh, pretty off topic, but anybody know where we could get a good copy of the industrial version of "Numb" (U2). My wife really likes that version and has a music video of it, but was hoping to maybe get a cd quality of it somewhere.  I could record it off the VCR, but I fear the end product would sound like shit.

Front 242? Hell Yea.

That list of stuff was just what I could come up with off the top of my head. If I thought a bit longer Front 242 woulda been listed, as well as Informatik, Katarina Vasquez (did some great Madonna Covers), Lustmorde (lead did the music/sound for Planescape: Torment), Love Spirals Downward, Nick Cave, and many others.

I have amassed a collection of about 800 cd's that would be considered Industrial or Goth or Dark Wave or whatever.

If you're looking for an obscure album i've got it most likely - From Celebrate the Nun to Float to out of print Xymox stuff on their old label.

EDIT:
Pretty Hate Machine: Yes
Prodigy: No, I fucking hate them.

What's this, no mention of

And One
Aslan Faction
Assemblage 23
Beborn Betorn
Camoflage
Centhron
Colony 5
C-Tec
DAF
DeVision
Diary of Dreams
Diorama
Dulce Liquido
E-craft
Fairlight Children
Feindflug
Front 242
Funker Vogt
Hocico
Icon of Coil
In Strict Confidence
Informatik
Ionic Vision
Karl Bartos
Lame Immortele
Leatherstrip
Laibach
Miss Kitten & The Hacker
Neuropa
Neurotic Fish
Nitzer Ebb
Pouppée Fabbrikk
Project Pitchfork
Psyclon Nine
Punto Omega
Rational Youth
Run Level Zero
RX
Seabound
Solitary Experiments
Spetsnaz
Suicide Commando
T.O.Y
Tactical Sekt
Welle Erdball
Velvet Acid Christ
:Wumpscut:

Phew, every once in a while I have to write down my entire cd collection... You bastards.

Edit: Oh yeah, the new Skinny album kicks very much bottom indeed. Have it preordered at my local retailer.

I LOVE YOU.

do i know you?

Edit: All the stuff Rodent listed, I have.

Welcome, hugs and kisses with big leather boots and all that.

No, seriously, where are you from? Do I know you?

I knew if we kept at this long enough Rodent would show up! :)

Heya Rodent, haven't spoken to you in awhile, how have you been?

To get back On the Off topic:  You can probably rest assured I'd listen to a f13 Industrial/EBM radio station..

Hah, don't think so. I'm from Sweden.

On a great note, Skinny Puppy and Karl Bartos will play at Arvika and I have my ticket. w00t!

Heya Cevik, long time no see. Last thing I heard from you was the Atkins diet I belive. How's it working out?

Been good, studying religion and fighting crime, all in the small pockets of soberness ofcourse.

And someone kill me. I forgot to mention Vangelis and Jean Michelle Jarre, they may be french but god damnit, they're legends.

Do french Canadians count? If so I've got the only Handfull of Snowdrops album. Took an arm and a leg to buy though. I'll throw some of that shit up. It's great.

Back the the online music channel, are you talking shoutcast?

Our SWG PA has a shoutcast station and I like listening to it but often don't like the selection but like hearing new things I would normally not have heard otherwise.

Considering how little what you listed I know and how much I like the little I DO know i would be highly interested in listening to any web broadcast, but not knowing much of the stuff in advance I can't guaruntee I would stick around.  I might not like a lot of it.  My wife would probably like it too.  Her brother is a DJ in London and before he moved out of the country (married an english chick) he used to play all sorts of stuff she loved but for the life of her cannot remember who or what it was from.  This just might be some of what she remembers.  She describes it as a lot of heavy techno/industrial/gothic music.  My wife's brother kicks ass, but I still have not met the bastard in person.  We would bore the shit out of him anyway.

http://www.rantradio.com/rr-industrial128.pls

Takes care of your synth shoutcast needs.

Actually playing yet another band I forgot to add to the list right now, Terminal Choice.

Heh, I'm still trying to lose the last 10 lbs or so, but I went from 242 lbs at my max weight (see I'm still on topic for the thread, 242!) to about 170 right now.  Had to buy all new clothes and stuff.. still doing the diet but I'm up to the stages where I eat normal people amounts of carbs..

Would be cool. The last time they've toured Texas is way back, so I never had the chance (even when I tried). I've seen OHgR and Pigface a few times, so I guess I'm still lucky.

More to add to that List?:

The Swans
Suicide
Death in June
Christian Death
Revolting Cocks
Big Black
Samhain

Some more bands to add to the list

Aghast View
Avant Garde
Cat Rapes Dog ( Swedish punksynth for teh win )
Clan of Xymox
Das Ich
Elegant Machinery
Encounter
Inside Treatment
Kiethevez
Koto
Melotron
Mentallo & The fixer
Michael Cretu ( of Enigma fame )
Minerve
Oomph
Page ( all hail the very frist Swedish synth band! yay! )
Pzycho Bitch
Scotch
S.I.T.D
Tear Garden ( again, how did I miss this before? )
Terence Fixmer
The Retrosic
Wolfsheim
Yazoo

I'm sure there's more to come

It's gotta be said, ALL of these bands are on the list and can make the cut (ill be pooling the mp3's this weekend) - it's just listing ALL of them that I didn't want to do. keke^^

People wanting to check out Skinny Puppy might like to know that they can use the iTunes store to hear clips of everything on all the albums mentioned, with the exception of the forthcoming one and The Process. And if you find digital distribution acceptable, you can also buy them there.

Also available are The Singles Collection, Remix Dys Temper and 12 Inch Anthology.

No Einsturzende Neubauten or Psychic TV? Shame. To really get the full spectrum for an enduring radio station you'd want some of the industrial metal angles like Ministry, old school goth like the early Sisters of Mercy and Rose of Avalanche (http://www.geocities.com/~jamesparton/velveteen.mp3), some more of the Ivo produced 4AD stuff like Dead Can Dance and TMC, and a heap of the Krautrock (Can, Neu, Faust) and Punk (Clash, Wire) that inspired it all. That's even without heading into modern German Darkwave, Coldwave and Technoid.

Ministry, Sisters of Mercy, Switchblade Symphony, Einsterzende, Haujobb, hell - there's a ton of bands I still haven't mentioned. I'll probably get to pooling the mp3's for the radio station this week.

hey, newcomer here, but I thought I'd throw out a couple more things to consider.

Aphex Twin
Autechre
Delerium
Einsturzende Neubauten
Two (a side project of Rob Halford, pretty difficult to come by)
KMFDM / MDFMK

I had so many others, but they've all been covered already.

if you're at all interested in the more minimalistic ambient/glitchy stuff, I have a few more recommendations I could make.

I probably won't put KMFDM or Aphex Twin on there - but I've never heard the 'Two' stuff. Drop me a line we could uh, errr, do some tradin. As far as Delerium goes I'm personally a bigger fan of Cyberaktif, Equinox, and Synesthaesia (and of course Frontline Assembly).

In other news I might set up a FTP dump for you all to throw up some of your more obscure mp3's to throw in the mix if anyone is interested.

yeah, let me know about the FTP deal. i might be able to.. hook a brother up, yo.

Offtopic, but City of Lost Children, great movie - better avatar.

I must confess my monumental ignorance of most of these bands, but any list that contains VNV Nation and Apoptygma Berzerk has my support.

Hmm..Have you seen Delicatessen?

So when are we having that beer... and will you bring music?

Of course.

You betcha, I'll drop you a PM when next I visit Köbenhavn.

Mmm Aphex Twin does my favorite ambient stuff (Vol2). I haven't listened to Skinny Puppy in probably ten years since I was first turned onto them, but they are a good band imo. Interesting you folks say The Process is one of their worst albums, I have two or three, and that's one. I gotta go do some listening...

The whole goth/industrial isn't my main listening style, but I like good artists regardless of the genre. I mean, my non-alphabetized cd collection sees things like Slayer sitting next to Jerry Reed :)

Anyone like Meat Beat Manifesto? I've only checked out their remixed album, Original Fire.

I have to get this one cd ripped so you guys can ID it for me. It's black with gold line art but no name, I got it when I used to DJ and the kid who spun the 'alternative night' (this was circa 98) at the club left it in one of the cd trays. Kinda industrial cool ass cd, but no goddamned clue who it is.

I also have a pretty nifty live cd of a band called Pigface that is made up of members of a lot of the bands listed here.

I like Meat Beat, my wife looooooves Meat Beat.  I'd suggest checking out the albumn Satyricon (my favorite) or Subliminal Sandwich.



I love Pigface, I've seen them live 6 times, one of my favorite live acts to catch.  If you want more of their stuff, Gub is an album that has the original version of the song "Suck" with Trent Reznor, from Nine Inch Nails, singing (Trent later covered the song as track 99 of Broken).  My two favorite albums are Notes from Thee Underground and A New High In Low.

If you like Aphex Twin, you should consider picking up some stuff from the band Download, which is a Skinny Puppy side project (minus Nivek Ogre, but adding a lot of other people).  Very good ambient style music.  My favorite Download cds are III, and Effector.

I heard and enjoyed a lot of Aphex Twin in college as my suitemate (separate rooms, but shared toilet between 3 rooms that made up a 'suite') was HUGE fan.  I never bought any of his stuff myself because I generally am not a big fan of ambient.  I heard a lot of Aphex's remixes as well that I tended to like more as they were usually a lot less ambient.

It was all good music in my opinion, but I am more of an active listener and most ambient is pretty hard to actively listen to for me.

He is the same person who turned me on to NIN and every other band I listened to at that time.

I grew up in Green Bay, Wisconsin with friends who didn't ever really listen to music and parents who would only occasionally throw in some Niel Diamond (or Conway Twitty, die you fucking bastard) and the only radion stations are clones of each other playing the same top 40s drivel.  Even the wannabe 'punks' were losers listening to metallica or iron maiden and other hair bands.  College was a nice musical eye opening, and I didn't use it as fully as I should have.  Still so many things I have never heard.

Don't slam goddamned Neil Diamond, one of the great songwriters of our time. And what's wrong with Maiden or Metallica (pre-black)? Good stuff. There are very few bands I'm willing to slam, though.

I came to Aphex Twin via the electronica route. I was big into remixes thanks to the White Zombie dance remixes, which I began slipping into my DJ gigs. People liked it, club owners liked people liking things, and I began adding in a bit more electronic music by way of compilations. Listening to compilations, I got into Orb. I then went through a period of collecting Orb remixes of other artist's material (I have one remix cd of The Perfect Drug with MBM, Orb, and others, great cd, all the same song bby NIN).

Then I got hired here and dropped the DJ gig and stopped experimenting with music.

My motto is 'Every music its place, every place its music'. I like ambient if I'm just relaxing, or as background music for gaming. If I want to actively listen, I'd choose something else. I find genres way too limiting.

If you like/need dance music, check out early Front 242, like everything before Up Evil.  The songs you should look for in particular are "Welcome to Paradise" (which people always call by other names like "Hey Poor" or "Jesus is Here" because of a sample that is repeated throughout the song), and "Headhunter" (any and every version you can find), those songs always get HUGELY good reception amongst dance crowds (because they are catchy and the lyrics and samples are somewhat risque)..

I didn't mean to slam Mr. Diamond here.  Hell, I have been to a concert of his (really good live actually).  I almost mentioned that his songs are still some of the most 'stuck in my head' songs of all time for me and I have not even heard one for years.  I just figured it didn't really fit in a skinny puppy thread.

The intent was really that my parents very rarely listened to music, and they had a VERY limited selection.  Not that they listened to horrible music.  My die comment was directed at conway twitty.  I really don't like conway twitty.  They also listened to some Pete Fountain which still resides on my playlists.  Heck, for all the music Niel Diamond has made, they only had TWO tapes.  Just TWO!!

FUCK YES!

The rumored Skinny Puppy tour details:



Portland, June 11th.  It's unconfirmed stuff but if it turns out to be true I'll be in fucking heaven.

ETA:  I found confirmation of the Portland date:

http://www.doubletee.com/rose_schedule.shtml

And tickets are already on sale:

http://www.ticketswest.com/TW/Events/Performance.asp?xval=NONE&Cat1=CON&Cat2=---&Cat3=PROS11JUN&MP=False

Of course the Roseland Theatre page says the opening act will be "Thrasher" when it's actually Tweaker who is Chris Vrenna from Nine Inch Nails fame, but ohh well.  I doubt that anyone both reads this and is in the Portland area, but just in case there is you should PM me and we might say hi at the show.

WASHINGTON DC IN THE HIZZOUSE. FO'RIZZLE FOOLS.

I'll be at the June 16th show and probably the 17th as well.

Anyone attending the Detroit Electronic Music festival this year?  

Is anyone here a musician at all?  I've been learning ALOT about electronic music in the last year and am just starting to produce my first bits of decent music.  I'll post some links when I have something worth showing off.

Movement (The DEF '04 show) isn't exactly host to the type of music we've been discussing in this thread. Not to bash it as I like a lot of it, but most of the stuff played there, and correct me if I'm wrong - but instead of just getting hammered on beer (particularly Guinness) - I'd fit in better dropping some acid, cracking a glow stick, smoking some weed and bobbing my head.

On to the second part, I would suggest any musician, would-be musician, or fan of all electronic music (except for extreme goth types) to read this book:

The Ambient Century: From Mahler to Trance: The Evolution of Sound in the Electronic Age by Mark Prendergast

Hardback (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1582341346/qid=1084089014/sr=12-1/102-8102841-3018557?v=glance&s=books) - $22.41
Paperback (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1582343233/ref=lpr_g_1/102-8102841-3018557?v=glance&s=books) - $13.97

I suggest the hardback, the cover and spine design are great. It's also a book you'll want to keep around for a while. Other than that, just read the Amazon.com reviews (which are split fairly evenly, though I'm of the camp that would say the people who gave it a negative review are pretty much just closedminded fuckwits who couldn't tell Miles Davis from Dave Thomas) and decide for yourself.

While it’s true the Movement festival does not typically host industrial/ebm bands, if SP agreed to play, you bet your ass they’d be headlining.  From what I hear they were in negotiations with Radiohead, so they are not limiting themselves to strictly techno.  As a matter of fact my favorite act in the four years I’ve attended has been Tortoise, and you’d be extremely hard pressed to call them even electronic.  In any case, I’ll be there all weekend.

I’m currently working my way through this (http://www.crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques/latest/book-html/) but thank you for the recommendation :)  After reading the description it’s next on my list.