f13.net

Supposedly, I had heard you could find epic items that would randomly drop on level appropriate mobs anywhere in the gaming world. I had never see one, nor had I found anyone in my guild who had either. However, yesterday I came across this (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=19086) yesterday in my normal mining/hunting process. Since I was a warrior it went on the AH with no buyout. It didn't even last three hours before I finally accepted an offer to take it down. The guy paid me 700g for it.

Has anyone else ever found epic drops in game that were random world drops? What did you do with them?

My buddy (FMR here) has a horseshoe in his ass- he has found several blue randoms over his career (I got my first one last night- a level 18 mail gauntlet for my 32nd level mage), and recently found these (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=12420) as a random drop. I hate him.  :-D

Congratulations on becoming green, WAP.  I think.  If I can do anything to make you shine, like post lots of senseless wibble destined for the den, or invite people from obscure religion boards, just let me know.  I want to help make you look good.

Dont be a hater, WAY, cant even get a decent nibble on them in the AH or on the trade channel.  Gonna try the AH in Gadgetzan next.  Besides, I play about 4 times as many hours as you do, since I've quit getting assfucked in online poker, but that's another thread altogether.

I've never seen a purple drop in the game.

I've had a couple blue drops, but only one that was level-appropriate and useful. Hunting basilisks in STV (by their cave) when I was farming skins for leatherworking for my lvl 40 mount $$. I was a lvl 40/41 hunter at the time and these dropped: Basilisk Hide Pants (http://thottbot.com/?i=5542). +21 AGI at level 40, I've only recently (at level 57) seen a couple green drops that I've considered, from 40 up, my legs slot was "non-negotiable".

I'm the epitome of ghetto gear, though I do fancy my +run speed boots.

While killing ogres in Feralas a couple weeks ago one of them dropped Nightblade http://www.thottbot.com/?i=13823. Honestly it was a great feeling, I kind of couldn't believe my eyes for a minute, I felt as if I had won the lottery.

Well, being a Druid I couldn't use the thing ... and I ended up getting only 68 gold for it, but hey that was enough so I could finally get my mount, so I was pretty happy all around.

I had the Underworld Band http://www.thottbot.com/?i=5646 drop in Feralis to my 42 Warrior.  I have a friend who has a Warlock, so won't be finding out how much it would have sold for.

Thanks Signe! I look forward to a long and undistinguished moderating career.

I lied earlier. I just remembered that I got a blue sword drop from a chest near the Southsea Pirates outside of BB.

FMR- no AH bites? Try it tonight (weekend nights are usually better).  Start it low and put a high buyout- even if it sells low, at least you get more than the vendors will buy it for. I just can't believe someone hasn't bought it yet just so they can say they are wearing something purple.

Who the fuck would pay 700g for that necklace?  If it had a +crit or +damage modifier I'd consider it.

And I once got a krol blade and a hammer of the northern wind in the same week.  Gave the hammer to a guidlie and sold the krol blade for 500g (could have got more)

The answer is, some dude who farms elemental water for cash, or so he says. In reality I set it on the AH with no buyout starting at 50g to just let it ride. I got 10 tells in the next hour offering cash to take it down. I told them no. They went up as high as 550g, but given it was in the first hour I still said no. Then when Cashy McMoneybags came in, I told him I wasn't taking it down and the highest offer going was 550. He said 700. I said DONE, and called it a day.

If I start playing again, will you give me 200G?

I will give you $16.31  :-D

I'm not on ER, but if I were...


Nah.

Sure.  My main Druid looted this (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=4922) off of a Bloodsail Buccaneer.  If you click on any mob around 40 or higher in thottbot, you'll probably see some epics that they've dropped.

The thing I don't get is why people pay so much for them.  The armor's maybe 150% as good as typical level stuff, and the bonuses are maybe twice as good.  The special abilities are pretty tame (like this +2% dodge chance.  An extra 1 dodge in 50 attacks).  Yeah, it's good, but paying 100g vs paying 2g for standard fare?

As for what I did with it, it's sitting in my bank.  I'm split on whether to hold onto it for whenever I want to roll a warrior or to sell it for a mount.

Arrgh- why are they PLATE? If they were leather, a Rogue would be all over those.

People see purple and lose their minds. Tough enough (read: for me, impossible) to buy blue stuff. People see blue and don't even seem to consider the stats before slapping a high price on it.

I guess once you've been 60 for a couple weeks, money is a relative non-issue. Personally, I've never had more than 30g EVER, excluding saving for my lvl 40 mount.

I think some of the more traditional mmog players have thrown the economy out of whack, the clash of the casual overland game and the more hardcore instance game.
There's certainly something to that. I was ama?ed how much I was able to make from some of those elemental drops. I was getting 5g buyouts /easy/. And I don't farm, I just had a bunch from playing in zones with elementals around. Heck, the last time I got near 30g was from selling a few of those at the AH. Crazy, I didn't find them overly rare.
I wonder if BC were disbanded, could we re-use the name? Schild is silly in his anti-wowness ;) Saw Splurgo on last night, should've had him give me an invite.
Well, despite what I said, there is a market for high level blue/purple. While I consider midlevel blue buying on the AH to be a waste of money (since you'll outgrow it soon enough), as you hit the level cap, it makes sense to spend money on good items to "finish" those spots off for a few different situations (pvp gear, etc). The same folks who tend to have more money than most in the game (excluding farmers). What I don't get is why middle-level blue/purple gear is so much more expensive than it's stats.

I bought something off the AH last weekend, I can't remember now exactly what it was, but it was similar in stats to a blue item (10 levels lower, of course). The green item I bought was 2g 50s. The blue item was listed for 60g. I got a chuckle out of that one. Sure, my level played a factor (because I could buy the green item instead, at a higher item level), but it was funny nonetheless.

Heh, at a certain point, blues and purple are all that's going to upgrade your gear.  That necklace, however, just doesn't seem worth it.  I have a Horizon Choker (you can get these for under 50 in the AH) I got as a drop and an Arclight talisman (Battle of Darrowshire) I wear right now. 

I've never ever ever gotten a purple drop.  I don't farm much at all.  Some notable blues I've gotten are Hydralick Armor, Joonho's Mercy (this is campable) and two Six Demon Bags.

My rogue has a Bloodrazor (http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2005-04-13) that my friend got off skeleton in Western Plaguelands.  I've never owned a purple item before this one and it was a JOY to equip at level 45.  Nothing like SS'ing mobs down before you can even get off your eviscerate (well, didn't last long). 

Recently another friend just quit (that's all of them) so I got another influx of cash.   Looking to buy a Krol blade or Mass of McGowan for the rogue but those tend to go a bit higher than what I've got on me.   I really want a damn Krol blade because I'm sure someone in my guild would have a shit fit if I my guild GM let me spend DKP to get a Dal Rend for my alt.

The only blue item I've owned is this hammer (http://thottbot.com/?i=5456). I bought it for 15g shortly before lvl 40 and haven't found anything close to it, mace-wise, since.

Way is a mod now?  Excellent.  The cranky old men are solidifying their power here mwahahahahahaha!!!


That'll get him 150 gold or so, which is plenty.  Don't want to spoil your twinks!

On the actual subject, I have never seen a purple world drop.  Would not mind getting a couple for the cash, as that epic mount is expensive as hell.  So are arcanite reapers and stonegrip gaunts.  I am a poor panda.

Ive farmed ALOT.  I farmed for the crusader enchant formula, that took me over a week of non stop killing lvl 57-58 mobs.  I farmed for revered faction with argent dawn, that also took about a week of killing 58-60 mobs.  I might have gotten about 6 green items the whole time, i haven't seen a random world drop blue since my 20s.  Now that i have crusader though and my money problems are over i simply camp the AH for what i want.  Picked up a mass of mcgowan for 200g buy out the other day, im pretty happy with that.  Could have had a krol for 600 but they are basically the same weapon.

I know I didn't.  I put it up at a ridiculously high price because I knew it would sell.  Supply and demand, all that.  I really didn't see why they were all that good, but if people will pay a shitload of money why shouldn't I profit from that?   :-D

I have only found three blues in my playing so far that I could have used, and each one has been worse than what I had equipped at the time.

I found the electrocutioner's leg long after it wasn't a good weapon anymore, Redbeard's crest after I had a much better shield, and the Razor's Edge again, long after I already had a better weapon.

All my other blues have been cloth items. Bleah. Greens don't sell for shit in the AH anymore on my server since 99.99999999% of everyone on it is level 55+. I want BADLY to move to another server, but I don't even know if it'll help since when the mover comes back up, you can only move to one server that Blizz picks for you.

Righ found a piccolo.  It's the best drop ever.  When you play it, everyone is forced to dance.  Even if they sit, they cannot escape it's happy happy joy joy effects.  He plans to leave himself logged in at the mailbox playing it tomorrow for my amusement.  People really freak out when they spontaneously begin to dance.   :-)

piccolo of the flaming fire is the best item in any game ever, tell him to do it in the AH instead.

He did do it there but it wasn't as fun as the mailbox.  I think people are mostly grumpy when they go in there.

I have a purple bow on my warrior. It is nice to pull with having a 1.6 second shot time but it's mostly to cause random hunters to break out in tears.

That necklace seems fairly crappy to me, getting 700gold for it is a good deal, mind you there are people who look at the color first and the stats second. Those plate boots are excellent though, and much more valuable to a warrior than a rogue. Rogues already have very high dodge innately and aren't often called upon to tank 1K hitters where dodging an attack is a substantial difference in incoming DPS.

The purple drops are incredibly annoying but ultimately do work. It means that every time you kill a mob there's that tiniest sliver of a chance for something insanely good to drop.

Considering you can get this http://www.thottbot.com/?i=6910 from a quest line, you found yourself one heck of a sucker.

I got This hammer (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=8847) off of a level 52, non-elite mob in Felwood - and a guildy got the SAME hammer not two days before.  I sold mine for 80g - not a massive amount but I lack the patience to get a better price!

Epic items DO drop - but you could farm for DAYS and get nothing off the same mobs - its just blind luck/low probability.  Better to just go out and have fun, and if an awesome item drops - its a bonus!

Hardly.

You've actually hit upon a major problem with WoW's itemization. Non-cloth wearing classes have a wide variety of equipment available that can have a major impact on their character's effectiveness. Melee can dream about epic weapons that can add 20-30% to their damage output over the best blues. Even spell casters benefit a lot from + spell crit gear and their MC epic sets at least add the right stats. Priests however for the most part have very few options for improving their characters once they fill out their blue class sets.

MC priest epic sets mostly add spirit, not stamina or int. Plus spell crit gear does not work for heals for whatever reason. Even +heal gear only has 42% of the listed impact on our bread-and-butter flash heals, so that even gear that gives +100 healing (not an easy task) only boosts our heals by about 4%. The end result is that cloth-wearers in general, and priests in particular have to go to extreme lengths to get any kind of a significant upgrade from gear, and from even rarer purchasable BoE gear in particular.

So what gear is out there that can be bought and that is going to be any kind of an upgrade for most lev 60 priests? Well there's the Cainwyn, the Glowing Brightwood Staff (another random world drop), the Belt of the Archmage and Hide of the Wild which don't really count since they are fairly easy craftables and...and..well that's pretty much it. So of course those with epic mounts and nothing better to spend their money on are going to bid what seems like insane cash on those items. There just are not enough options.

My friend also has a horseshoe hidden in his anatomy.

He has gotten two purple's from standard MOBs.  This (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=13869) is his latest.  I don't think has sold it yet though.  I'm imagining 700+ gps though.

Good God this is sounding like a DAOC discussion thread -- in the sense that highest-level people are making a big to-do over items.

Please tell me WoW's level 60 pvp game isn't gear-based. (Under level 60 it feels mostly level-based, but there's a nice spread of level effectiveness, keeping me on my toes for enemies even 5 levels lower, and not being too afraid of those up to 5 levels higher.)

My main is currently level 34 and while I've found 4 blue items so far (2 drops, 2 quest), I've thought of these as prestige items rather than truly necessary for effective play.

Of course it's gear based. Someone with a purple +30% damage weapon will pwn your little toon with a green weapon every time.

You can beat them.

Your gear will seriously lag behind in the beginning levels.  I remember getting to 60 and having ONE blue item on me. Well two if you count a trinket I had.    Your gear will catch up.  You can either buy the occasional upgrade at the AH or you can get it via the more casual lvl 60 instance of Dire Maul.   Still, at this level I could win most duels based on skill.  Right now, without mudflation being too outrageous, skill and organization does trump gear in PVP.  This is mostly based on what limited PVP I get on a PVE server (mostly the TM/SS shuffle).


I know what you're talking about, and no, it's nowhere near DAoC.  You're not going to need a fully SC'd set of gear with a leveled artifact weapon to compete.   However, you're going to need to stay somewhat with the curve unless you like playing with a handicap every single time.  Fuck, really though, with Dire Maul in the game, you can get a lot of really decent gear without a major time investment.  Hell, after one DM run I came away with a new blue shield, new blue dagger, new blue boots, and the quest for a nice blue trinket. 

But really, to back up what Hat said, if you're better than someone and they've got better gear, you're going to beat them.

Are there really +30% items? What I like about what I've seen so far in WoW is that most bonuses seem small (30% would be huge). For example, I've seen a sword with a 1% chance to proc a shadowbolt. Or the lesser invis potions I can make last only 15 seconds (effective enough to avoid an unwanted encounter -- but not unbalancing). Or my blue drop staff (Emberstone (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=4815)) vs. the one I could have used from my quest (Westfall Staff (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=2273)). The differences are small enough that I don't have to have the better one -- and having a green staff (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=6357) wouldn't really gimp me, either.

In other words, DAOC became gear-centric because there were *must have* items if you wanted to survive. I don't care if one other player has an ubersword. I don't care if a dozen have an ubersword. I care if hundreds of players have uberswords and all fights comes down to whoever has an "i win" item or button.


Thanks Rasix. That's what I was concerned about.

There are a few weapons though now that people are beginning to bitch about.  The Arcanite Reaper (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=14268) is getting a lot of attention.  Massive burst DPS in the hands of a capable warrior.  There are a number of comparable weapons, though, and the main gist of all of the bitching is that certain warrior builds just do nutty damage and completely shit kick rogues if they're not careful. 

Given the way devs fellate rogues, I'm sure that will be remedied.  Rogues alone have gotten all CC nerfed into worthlessness.  Given that half the players are rogues, the devs will never give them the sorely needed nerf they deserve until the day all casters finally quit the game.

Well, I guess it was due time for a completely idiotic post from you. 

How can you interpret the PvP trinkets as anything more than a sop to rogue whining?  The devs actually said on the boards somewhere "we want to avoid players being immobilized or slowed whenever possible in pvp".  How dumb are you to not see how that unbalances the entire game in favor of rogues and warriors?

Currently there isn't a major item-grind but there will be.  Look at how superior the MC purple set is, another ub3r item that comes to mind is the 2nd tier purple warlock set item that has a 2% chance to proc fear when hit.

Give them some time, there will definately be must-have item-grind items.  I guarentee it.

I fully agree with you.  I've been running MC weekly, which takes up 2 long days and additional time throughout the week in restocking potions(need about ~10-15 major mana potions per day as a healer).  My toon's a priest and we bring about 7-8 priests on MC raids - the most of any class, which dilutes down the rolling pool, compared to 4-5 rogues, 5 warriors, or 2-3 druids.  Most cloth caster loot, especially priest, can be characterized as slightly better set items from the level 54-55 stuff, and sometimes even worse if you're going for +stamina or other perceived pvp-centric advantages.  I'm seeing alot of shadow/fire resistance on rogue loot, and I'm wondering where my resist stun/eye gouge/cheapshot stuff is :)

Best caster stuff right now is crafted(Belt of the Archmage, Chromatic Cloak), or comes from DM, which has lots of +crit from spells stuff.

I don't even know the specifics on the new PVP trinkets. I haven't bothered. It's not an issue for me until it's actually, you know, in the game on the actual servers.  As far as unbalancing the entire game in favor of two classes, how about we see how it plays out before hyperbolizing to hell and back? 

Btw, immobilization affects more than just warriors/rogues.  Us godmode shaman hate it when we're kept at a distance in most situations. I assume the same would be with paladins.  Gotta keep us happy or the world falls apart.

Anyhow, crowd control + pvp = problems. I don't expect this to be sorted out on the first pass and Blizzard has no qualms about reversing themselves and nerfing the shit out of whatever they see fit.   It'll be an issue for a while and there will be much back and forth.   I just hope they aren't as bad at the back and forth as Dark Age.

I wasn't even sure these trinkets (assuming one removes snares) were needed if they add some sort of diminishing returns.  Rogues already have one form of anti-slowing in Vanish (pray your ass aint dotted).

God I hate MC.  HATE HATE HATE (My guild has been really bad at it too, not enough priests and we're horde).  Yah, MC could fuck some things up depending on how eye popping the drops become.  Of course, it's really a top 1% area, so this shit isn't going to be all over the place.  Planning on an MC drop isn't really feasible for most people unless you're really in a guild that owns the place on a consistent basis (but then you'd likely be in a fairly large guild too).

Long snares in pvp are absolutely retarded. They always have been. It effectively makes the melee class worthless. Slows or cripples, ok. Short burst snares, like 2-3 seconds, ok. Otherwise why even bother going out in the field? Everybody just rolls a mage and we fire magic missiles at each other until we get bored. Casters being the dominant PvP class has always been a problem for me, especially since the tanks had no recourse to standing around waiting for the mezz to wear off.

hehe, 3 of the people in my guild now have This (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=35887).

Ouch...

Catass much?

That's fine.  As a basic design decision, I have no problem if they remove/minimize the impact of CC.  The key word in that sentence is BASIC- if they didn't want stuns/snares/roots to be an integral part of the game, they should have decided that on the pre-alpha drawing table.  The problem is now that the mage class with poly and frost nova, the lock with seduce/fear and the priest with fear RELY on CC effects being in the game.  We get this to counteract for the fact that if anyone with anything pointy gets remotely near us, our pitiful HP is reduced to zero in 4-5 seconds. 

My question to you is- if they gradually keep nerfing removing CC, what do you concede must be given us to balance the game?  I'd be fine with no poly on my mage if you give me plate armor.  But do you really want a game where a warrior in plate and a mage in plate stand toe to toe and attack until one is dead?  The simple fact is that PvP is the most fun when there are rich and varied tactics, and tactics all involve MOVEMENT.  Bliz's stated position of being sad if a warrior or rogue is not on you every single second of the game will simply lead to bad and boring mechanics.

Ignorant much?

That item requires nothing more than a lucky drop off of any DM boss and an invite to a successful onxyia run, neither of which takes even an hour.

Uh-huh. Gotcha boss. Two hours and it's mine. I bow to your superiorness.

Arcanite Reaper is the best PvP warrior weapon in the game (though from posts I have seen, there will be comparable or better weapons from the upgraded molten core and better weapons to the uberest of the uber PvP catasses in the honor system).  Blizzard never really thought through the consequences of "instant attacks that do base weapon damage + something else" combined with "ultra high damage, slow as hell weapon."  Mortal Strike + Overpower + Reaper = TEH PWN.

The PvP-oriented powergamer warriors have been using these forever.  I guess the decreasing prices of arcanite have made them more widely available.    

Rogues bitch up a storm about it because warriors are one of the few classes that usually beat rogues.  Even I can beat rogues, and I suck.  It still amazes me how many rogues hit "evade" when fighting me.  Yes, please dodge all of my attacks.  It's not like every time you dodge, my instant-cast, un-dodgable, 70% chance-to-crit overpower button lights up you motard.  

Getting 40 odd people keyed for Onyxia takes a bit of catassing.   All that UBRS adds up :)

I've been keyed for Onyxia for like.. ever.  God, it sucks being on a backwater server where the alliance to horde ratio is like 4:1.  No Horde guild has even made a significant attempt at her.

So you are saying since it started that way, it must stay that way? Uh, how about just replacing snares and providing slows mages can outrun if 1 on 1. Anything is better than effectively removing the meleers from the equation and turning PvP into a magic show. It's the fact that I can charge a mage, whack him once maybe, get rooted, and then wait for death while he casts his arsenal at me. At least with a slow you make the caster move around instead of happily unleashing once you are stuck.

I hope they nerf the shit out of frost mages  snares and take poly out of the game.  I've played frost from 0-60.  I played for its survivability and the fact i'm most useful in a group.   Have no intrest in playing fire (millions of fire mages)  or arcane which has what...one aggressive spell.
It will give me reason to go out and see the sun again.  Mage spells are boring.  After watching my warlock buddy play beside me, i've decided that mages have the most generic boring set of spells the game devs could have come up with.  Nerfing sheep so people don't lose control of thier characters.....Mind Control anyone?  How about that root the druids get that has no timer.
Here's to hoping they  nerf the shit out of that moonfire instanotimerDoT that mages have no chance against or that totally  retarded pruge you shamans on godmode have.  An instant cast little spell requiring nothing more then gold to buy and that wipes out my entire specialized frost line of buffs,  a shield that took all my talant points and then  60+ seconds of sitting just to apply them,  gone instantly and it  probably eat's my first born too..   Thus nerfing my character into a paper wearing pea-shooter.
The harder they nerf us the faster I can get back to real life.  Summer's coming.  I don't want to play this game with such nice weather but holy god it can be addicting.

The one thing I can say about the rogues and that trinket is that well, they are the most useless class in the game.  I feel sorry for them.  I was grouped with one that wouldnt stfu about how she sits in town all day looking for groups.
I told her it might have something to do with that 0-59 levels you spent ganking newbs and the fact you picked a totally useless class for group play.  I don't even sheep rogues (1vs1)  so that trinket  makes little difference to me.

This might sound like a bit of a whiney post but really its not.  I'm happy with my character the way it is.  And I really do hope they totally fuck over the frost mage just to nerf the shaman a very tiny amount.

Oh and and hi haven't posted in a long while because i don't have much to say.  I enjoy lurking.

Oh, well if people are talking about what epics they've seen/gotten, I'll just toss out the leggings (http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=14554) I got in Strathome.  They are the reason that I'll never wear a full set of Valor or Might gear.

Sounds like you have bigger problems than can be solved by anything Blizzard can do for you.

No it's just a little cold up here in the winter and this makes a nice distraction from it.  (frost mage...lives where it's cold...see a theme here)
And I think you totally missed the sarcasm in my post.  Or didn't, but you did manage not to address anything related to gaming in my post!  Good job.

No high level epic drops for me yet.  Been hitting Dire Maul alot lately and managed to kill the Prince in a group of 2 druids (one tanking bosses) a rogue (that whiney one from the above post...she really knew her way around though), a pally and a mage (me).
I've also pretty well cleared BRD of all it's quests and still never even seen a purple drop in a group i've been in.
 I do have this http://www.thottbot.com/?i=5579 which was given to me by a friend.  He's managed to get quite a few purples.  I think 2 of them dropped in sorrow hill just farming for minion stones.
That ring procs like an sob.  When you kill someone encased in the block they die like a statue.  Which also happened to me once with my ice block.  It's immunity to everything and removes all negative effects but somehow I managed to die in that block once and ended up a statue.

Hmm..good point. My veiwpoint is distorted. We have no less than 4 different alliance guilds farming her on my server, so it seems almost trivial now, and since I was given blood on my 2nd UBRS ever (such was the need for priests there). But you are right, at one point it required a ton of effort (aka: catassing) from guilds just to get there.

Yeah, JUST THAT EASY. Set it and forget it. Moron.

Anyway, the real reason I'm posting is just to say OMGHIAMP!!!!

There are no +30% epic swords of newb slaying or anything like that.  The difference between a purple and a blue weapon is very slight.  This is my current weapon after trying to get an epic sword for a while: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=10606, and this is its epic counter part: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=8407.  The main advantage of epic stuff is lower level requirement, which makes it barely better than blues in most cases.  Not even the level 60 epic stuff from molten core is that far ahead of the rest, in fact from recent postings by tigole i believe its getting a boost because it was hardly worth the effort. 

On a pvp server my dwarf priest wasn't going to touch the fucking devout set, at that time not only did it look like shit but the green masters of the eagle stuff had higher int/sta boosts and any other stat is fucking worthless.

Good thing blizz isn't going to do anything about spirit being the worst fucking stat every created.

This is the /jizz of all hunters currently: http://www.thottbot.com/?i=36517

Meanwhile, settling for http://www.thottbot.com/?i=27150 or http://www.thottbot.com/?i=27973 as relatively common drops is not bad to hold them over til those plans drop for us.

Cool, another item I'll never see. Then again, I don't "jizz" over items in a goddamned video game, soo....
Yes, folks who already spend more time in this game, thus have more time to find items, gear and gold, need more of an advantage! The sound of Blizzard "buffing" the uber endgame is the sound of my cancellation.

Inevitable anyway, but I held out hope that maybe WoW would be the game to stop the catering to the lunatic fringe. I guess I forgot who they have on staff.

Ah well, summertime is coming, and Geldon needs more fodder for his "OMG WOW IS DYING!!" ideals. My cancellation should make him feel good. Of course, the reasons run counter to his ideas, but hey.

The uber/casual rift is the new pve/pvp rift imo. Look who won that last one (hint: not the lunatic fringe, to the detriment of folks who enjoyed open pvp).

The thing is the pve/pvp rift is not auto-fucking-matic.

What do you expect?  The game to cater to people who play less?  How would that even work?

"Well if your /played is under 5days you get double xp!"

"The more time your character spends solo'ing the higher your drop %!"

"If you reach the level cap with a /played time 2 days or more over the server avg you will recieve your classes purple set in the mail!"

Now I'm not advocating for raid content, I'm advocating for pvp that doesn't require so little skill that items become close to the end-all-be-all of determing pvp outcome.  But on that note I wouldn't even accuse WoW of being like this, the balance is fairly decent at this time (compared to SB's fessor/prelates/hurlbarb, or DAOC's stealth classes/early thurms/minstrels) and the combat is fast paced enough that people do suck at it.

We all know that within 6months WoW will have power creeped items that drop in stupid long timesink task areas that require ub3r guild organization and tolerance for bullshit.  But for now, I dont think its a valid complaint. 

You dont want to grind instances?  Dont.  Hell the one good tidbit I picked up was they were actually making instances where you weren't allowed to bring 40 people.  If you can't get together 5-10 competent people you enjoy grouping with you shouldn't be playing mmog's.

You're quite correct, if not for the reasons you think.

Maybe you can tell me to go play Morrowind next, oh dispenser of great wisdom?
Since reading comprehension is apparently a rare skill, I'll play along. For starters:
Don't do that.

Like I said, no sweat off my nuts, plenty of other stufrf to do. It's just too bad that lifeless OCD geeks have made such a shittery of a promising genre. Now...get off this board, isn't there phat lewtz to camp?

The first 1 or 2 months of Molten Core crawling and Onyxia attempting were really painful for us.  Frequent wipes, few drops, discouragement from lack of success causing frequent tardiness and no-shows.  Now we've got it down where weekly, we get about 20 epic drops, and everyone wants in on the raid.  The core raiding group is a conglomeration of guilds and governed by the DKP system, since you really get hard-pressed to find 40 reliable, good players.  It doesn't take a whole lot of catassing to have a successful group, though you do need a core of dedicated players.  If you can get it scheduled and leaving on time, you can do other things in your life as well.

Seems to me that they should make the more uber items only really effective in PvE by creating other items that counter the effects of the first.


Wait, I have only heard of DKP in relation to that guild Afterlife.  Are you in Afterlife?

Because if so, then yes, you're a catass.

Most high end guilds that don't want to break up over loot bickering use DKP (with some modifications based on your preferences).  It's really simple and it rewards those that contribute more to the guild. 

@Sky:

Ummm I must have missed something, you bruced three tiny bits of my post then threw in somebody else at the end.  You said you would play along and explain how rewarding people for playing LESS would work but I must have failed my reading comp roll again...   :cry:

Oh and I'm not even playing WoW lol, so why should I go catass?  I quit that stupid game due to the death-respawn-rush faggotry their pvp consists of and sold my account to a guildmate.

If you were using that final quote about them pumping up the MC stats as proof that Blizzard is gay and will cater to the ub3r crowd you should have quoted this line from the post of mine you cut into tiny bits:

"We all know that within 6months WoW will have power creeped items that drop in stupid long timesink task areas that require ub3r guild organization and tolerance for bullshit.  But for now, I dont think its a valid complaint."

I dont think Blizz will blow their rediculous gear load this early, instead I would expect a very small amount (read:3-5) items be bumped to "omfg l33t" status but its still too early for them to start making "I win" items.  But yeah I suppose you've got me there if the MC item boost is major...

Ahh, then I stand corrected.  I guess I'm just not up on my uberguild lingo.

The guild I"m in now is "uber" and is using DKP.  It is a simple system and does reward those that work hard at being at all the raids, etc.  In terms of loot from raids, I do think that people that go out of their way to be at them consistently should get rewarded for them.

At my rate, I'll have enough DKP to compete for uber loot in maybe July, but whatever.

Each succesful raid nets you 2 dkp points.  Each epic item you win at a raid will decrease your DKP total a certain amount (depending on the "uberness" of the item.)  Simple to comprehend.  Damned hard for the guild leaders to control.  Ours do pretty well at it.

I have 2 points by the way.

I used to to be one of the administrators of my EQ guild's DKP system.  I am a huge fan of DKP because it kills most loot-related drama and lets players decide how they want to equip their characters. 

The one thing that screws up many DKP systems is inflation. You just cannot have significant inflation in your DKP system or it will go to shit fast.  Points in = points out: live, learn, love.

This non-catass needs a definition of DKP plskthx.

I was lurking over on the Goon Squad boards and there were a lot of supporters of a "zero-sum" DKP system.  Basically all points in the system add to Zero - items are assigned values and say someone gets an item for 100 points (ie debitted) then the other 39 people on the raid 2.56 points or something.  Pretty bad explanation but it sounded like something that would help reduce inflation concerns. 

The more I read about the DKP systems, 7-12 raiding requirements, etc the more I think I'm never gonna see the end game.  I'm not so much interested in the crazy loot, more just want to see the final stuff so I can say "ahh, that's nice".

It boils down essentially to a system of "raid cash" with which you buy rolls on items, or items themselves. I'm not entirely sure of the concept beyond that. I do know that it stands for Dragon Kill Points, and that you accrue these points for each successful boss mob kill you acheive. These points go into an account for you. From there it gets unique to the system.

Who keeps the records? How are things recorded? Is it some sort of UI add-on, or is done manually?

I would assume it was done manually by an administrator. I've never worked under the system because my guild was never big enough. However, I may have to suggest it as part of my current alliance.

It's done manually, by the officer in charge of keeping the records.  The numbers are always made public and posted where anyone suspicious can track things on their own if they don't trust the officers to be honest.  The actual tracking varies from guild to guild, from webpages to excel files.  There was a whole faq somewhere about the system, but I can't remember it.

Speaking of DKP, did anyone else see the thread drama on the WoW boards yesterday about how DKP is 'unfair to everyone but the hardcore.'   I wanted to link it here, but the WoW forums are puking under the usual patch-day stress.   My thoughts are, yes, DKP is unfair to the individual if all you want to do is raid once a week and want to get loot, but it's better for the guild as a whole body. Suck it up and use your 3rd tier items that are still better than what the majority of the playerbase has equipped. ;)

In my experience, DKP is better for the occasional raider who wants to get some high-end loot.  The leading alternative to DPK is "merit" where the officers or loot committee gets together and decides who gets the loot.  They usually base that decision on what is best for the guild (or who cybers the best, but even if they make the best decisions for the guild they will get accused of giving it to who cybered the best), which usually means the more casual players get almost nothing.  DKP lets you save up your points if you want to get a really uber item, even if it would be better for the guild if the guys that play every day got it.

For example, if you raid half as much as the hardcore members of your guild, you will get one uber item for every 2 they get, on average.  That's a little more than I think you woud get under a "best for the guild" rule.

Of course, if your DKP system has inflation, more casual players and new recruits get brutally fucked up the ass.

Good lord, some people include inflation? That's fucked.

I meant to put 'unfair' in quotes. It was supposed to be sarcasm, so my mistake that I didn't.

 When someone says it's "Unfair" they usually mean that since they came in late, or raid less often they have to wait until all the folks with higher point totals have equipped themselves with the new shiny before they get a shot at said new shiny. They ignore the fact that they can bid, or automatically be granted, lower-tier loot for significantly less DKP.  It's STILL an order of magnitude better than the gear they had in the first place, it's just not the Uber shiny of the week.  "Fair" to these folks always seems to mean that even though they only show up once a week they should be granted the hottest, bestest loot first, because they're just "Teh Awesome!"

Well, a lot of DKP systems are (to oversimplify) "showing up for dragon X is worth 1 point; the uber sword which drops from that raid costs 30 points" overlooking the fact that 40 people usually show up for that raid, so you get 10 points of inflation into your system every time you do that raid.  You also get the occasional target where nothing anyone wants drops but points are still handed out.  The better systems I have seen either periodically adjust for inflation or do not give fixed values for raid attendence: everyone gets (DKP spent on loot during the raid) / (number of people at raid).  You can also do the same thing by continually adjusting the values of raids and costs of items, butthat is a pain in the ass and leads to people bitching when the uber sword they bought for 40 DKP only costs 20 the next day.  Some other people use auction systems (where DKP points for raids are fixed but the members bid on the items that drop) which have a natural tendency to account for both inflation and deflation, but that leads to collusion problems and lots of bitching, from what I have seen.

I totally agree with you on the personality of your typical anti-dkp zealot on the Blizzard forums, and did not mean to imply otherwise in my post. 

Seriously at that point my gaming would literally be exactly like my job, posting crap into excel and making formulas to tie in figures correctly. And that is the reason the system sucks ass. Running it correctly is a bitch and a half, plus you have to have someone reallly dedicated to defeating inflation. Random luck is not a bad thing here. If you run a lot of raids, you get more shots at loot. If you dont run a lot of raids, you can still participate.

Wonder why no one has made a mod.  Just have everyone in yer guild install it.

My guild's DKP system.  (http://www.brokenhorde.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5)  Not sure if you can read it or not.

Basically what it boils down to is this:  you get 1 DKP point for each hour of a raid you attend (some exceptions, boss might give extra points for a first time kill, we also get 10 points for doing the first leg of the Onyxia quest).  You use these points to bid on the items that drop.  Members are allowed to bid first.  Then it's open to initiates (still in trial period) and guests I believe (one guild likes to come with us, so we track points for them too).  Since class sets pre MC aren't restricted, the officers restrict those items to the intended class of that item first.   Very few items get bid up high.  Dal Rend swords used to until everyone got them. Hunter armor items usually go for a lot (we have a lot, fuck the GM doesn't have one yet), if a Felstriker ever drops, it'll probably go for 50+ points.  The GM or loot officer can also make judgement calls.  They might restrict bows/guns to hunter only first or a dagger with spell crit first to casters.  Most items are 2 point minimum.

In the end, if you do a place long enough, it evens out.  Those that attend the most get the first run of the drops and also get 'OMG WOW RARE' drops.  But if they're going to raids more than I am, shouldn't they get it?   Yah, it puts newcomers at a bit of a disadvantage (especially when you're doing a zone to learn it and no one's spending), but if they contribute on a consistent basis they tend to catch up rather quickly.

Uber Guilds suck. Period.

Thx info!

Now there's an understatement.

I don't see any problems with DKP system other than the leader has a hell of a job and he can have it.

For those that think that the uber catasses will get everything, that's bunk.  The stuff that you earn DKP for are 99% bind on pickup.  People aren't getting these items to horde and sell on AH.  They HAVE to either use it or sell to a vendor.  If they sell it to a vendor they only get less than 10 gold for anything I've seen and that is not worth losing hard earned DKP at all.

The only thing I can see the casual players missing out on are the very new elite items that come out with each patch that might outshine the older elite loot.  In my experience so far, most of the catasses pass up even going for most of the loot because they already have better.  This works for this catass wannabe because I can attend a raid once in awhile if it works with my schedule (read: once every two weeks,) and still have a great chance at getting something decent.

That isn't mentioning any of the green or blue items (not part of our guilds DKP at all.)  There are hordes and hordes of those that drop and can be rolled for very easily.

Hmm. Dren brings up some good points (other than I still hate uberguild-type people and their overall mentality, I'm sure the reverse is true and I'm ok with that ;)). Maybe I should look up some folks I can attend some DKP type raids now and again.

It's just rare for me to sit and play WoW for that long, even if I have a bunch of stuff to do. To sit in the same dungeon for 4 hours straight for the chance I might get some loot? Where's my guitar?? ;)

Sounds like it screams out for automation to me.  How many rare lewtz and elf boobies would people trade me to build a DKP-automation mod?

Actually I can't sit for that long either which is why my DKP is 2.  I get into the raids that I know won't last any longer than 2-3 hours.  Even then I have to make that up to my family by making the next few meals, clean it up, AND give the kids baths. Typically I play no longer than 1.5 hours each session.

My catassing has a price.  Fortunately, it has nothing to do with a litter box.

Recently turning to AGI gear for my warrior, I'd suggest hanging onto them.  But I'm no expert.

AFAIK Afterlife was the first guild to implement such a system (back in their early EQ raiding days) and their system is automated and Web-enabled. You can view their old EQ setup at www.afterlifeguild.org (http://www.afterlifeguild.org) though the site seems to be down at the moment. For the uber guilds I definitely think it's the most objective way to handle uber loot distribution -- time in == items out. For the more casual raiding guilds it's kind of a mixed bag.

My guild also uses a DKP system, which works something along the lines of:

Each raid boss is worth X DKP (so, onyxia is worth 20, Lucifron is 5, Magmadar is 10, etc)
Each item is worth X DKP (so Head of Onyxia is worth 70 pts, Tier 1 epic set items are worth 100, etc)

DKP is used to determine your Roll Threshold on the /random command in WoW.

if you have 1-50 DKP, you roll 1-100 on a random.
if you have 51-100 DKP, you, you roll 1-150 on random
if you have 101+ DKP, you roll 1- 200 on random

and while it might seem like no one in the 51-100 range would ever win anything, we have had cases where a person with a max roll of 150 beat out people with a max of 200 for an item.

Not sure if we have any kind of system to prevent inflation or not.  There might be a cap on Max DKP or something.

So are you spending your points on one chance to roll or do you keep rolling until you win something?

Points are spent only when you win a roll on an item.

Depending on the value of the item in question, it can be pretty easy to end up in negative points fairly rapidly.  We raid Molten Core and Onyxia roughly once a week.  If you participate in both raids (say 6 bosses in MC and Onyxia) you might get a total of around 100 DKP.  A Tier 1 Epic Set Item drop or Onyxia's head is worth around 75 points.

Like I said, I am not sure if there is any kind of inflation stops (such as a Max DKP number) in place.  I guess I will have to ask.