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Title: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: WayAbvPar on March 23, 2005, 02:22:40 PM Blocked Eviscerates take all combo points- bug or working as intended? (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=2095333&P=1)
I didn't play last night long enough to notice this issue- can any rogues out there confirm? What a huge stealth nerf. Guess I get to stand in Org and pick locks for the rest of my career... Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: MrHat on March 23, 2005, 02:30:32 PM I've played a bunch since last night and haven't noticed this.
What fucked me in the ass was the main hand finkle's skinner, that dagger is useless now. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Calantus on March 23, 2005, 05:35:36 PM That's not a stealth nerf. Blocking is only supposed to stop a set amount of damage (so low it wouldn't do too much to an evis). The "block all damage" bug used to occur to "on next attack" abilities and they fixed it this patch, so it's obviously not meant to happen. What they also changed in this patch is that instant abilities can now be blocked, previously they wouldn't due to a bug. I guess they forgot to check if the bug would apply to instants the same way it did to "on next attack" abilities.
What's happening now is that the game sees the evis, and sees that it's blocked. Since the block is only supposed to stop some damage it figures the evis went through and takes the combo points. Otherwise block would be a BAD thing to have as it would give a rogue a second evis. The problem is that due to a bug the damage is wholy prevented instead of partially. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Ironwood on March 24, 2005, 01:32:07 AM Speaking as a Rogue : That sucks.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: chinslim on March 24, 2005, 06:40:27 AM Poor rogues.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/OG_Loki/poorrogues.jpg Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Fargull on March 24, 2005, 06:43:17 AM Strangely I have not noticed this yet. As mentioned though, have not fought a warrior and will try and test that tonight. I did notice, though again this could just be lady luck dropping the right cards, that I was hitting much more often after this patch. Also noticed that poison was applied in I believe every fight, so the lady really might been at my shoulder last night.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Jayce on March 24, 2005, 06:51:53 AM I'd like to add that warriors got buffed too. If you dodge a special attack we can now overpower (should be renamed "rogue's bane"), where before you could only use overpower if you dodged a normal swing.
We also don't lose all our rage on a missed execute. That only really applies when you're in dire straits anyway, but it's worth mentioning. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Xilren's Twin on March 24, 2005, 07:21:16 AM Hadn't noticed it yet, but hadn't been fighting many humanoids that could block either so far since the patch. Was still able to kill some reds so it would be tough to say ive been nerfed anyway....
Liking the extra hotkey bars though :) BTW, does anyone use the "prevent healing" poisons in pvp? Xilren Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: WayAbvPar on March 24, 2005, 08:24:49 AM I haven't used those or the mind-numbing poisons yet. If I ever get to an instance with a bunch of caster I may give it a try, or if I plan to PvP for an evening it might be worth a shot.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Fargull on March 24, 2005, 11:59:06 AM Xil,
I understand that is the way to kill priests. Mind num on the main and no heal on the secondary. Wham bam. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: WayAbvPar on March 24, 2005, 12:11:18 PM I can kill most priests by keeping them stunned for 90% of the fight. Since their cloth armor doesn't soak much damage, the other attacks I can get off while they are twiddling their thumbs are devastating. If they snap out of it and get a couple of spells off I am probably fuckered though, so the mind-numbing poison would be a nice backup.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Sky on March 24, 2005, 02:00:28 PM I seriously need a new pet to pvp priests. My pvp wolf can't be outrun, but he only has a measly 2.0 attack speed, the slowest it gets. King B, otoh, has the same run speed but a 1.4 atk. (then there's the super pet....1.0 atk spd...).
But for hunters, a fast attacking pet can really hamper a spellcaster, especially a cloth-wearer. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Rasix on March 24, 2005, 03:20:16 PM The 1.0 spider got nerfed. Just a FYI.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Sky on March 25, 2005, 08:17:30 AM Of course they did. All hunter pets will be generic in a patch or three, mark my words.
Boneheaded design, waste of a great gameplay element. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: kaid on March 25, 2005, 08:55:40 AM Yup I would guess all pets will have the same run speed and 2.0 attack speed in the next big patch or so. After that they do apparently have some plans for making them more unique but that is years off at blizzard speed.
kaid Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Toast on March 25, 2005, 09:13:11 AM The problem is when everyone converges on the same exact "uber" pet.
The ideal system would be balanced with unique pets roughly equivalent to the player class archetypes. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Slayerik on March 25, 2005, 09:41:54 AM I can kill most priests by keeping them stunned for 90% of the fight. Since their cloth armor doesn't soak much damage, the other attacks I can get off while they are twiddling their thumbs are devastating. If they snap out of it and get a couple of spells off I am probably fuckered though, so the mind-numbing poison would be a nice backup. Ive never been stun locked for 90% of a fight. It just doesn happen, any real PVP priest will have the talent for 15% resistance to stuns/fear/silence. Between insta shield/fear and DoTs so you cant vanish, things get bad quick for rogues I fight. Being undead, I also throw in D. Plague FTW. Your mind numbing poison tech works well tho, a lot of times I am able to flash heal through the damage. In large scale battles, I drink Free action Pots right as I charge the enemy line for my mass fear. 2-3 rogues without free action pot can keep me stunlocked if well timed. Fear = great equalizer :) Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Sky on March 25, 2005, 09:59:16 AM Quote The problem is when everyone converges on the same exact "uber" pet. No problem at all. Make a few pets with the same stats, different model/texture, sprinkle them into each beast family, the cat people can grab King B, the wolf people can get King G (or whatever).It really is that easy. I felt the same way about the fbss in EQ. I wouldn't even remember it today (in a negative way, as an example of a shitty bottleneck) if there had been a couple other haste items with equivalent stats located at a similar challenge level around the game world. Then you never know if that hunter will pull out a resistant pet, a tanker, a rough dps spider....I guess only warlocks are supposed to get cool pets, I mean shit, wasn't limiting pet skills to claw/bite/cower/growl enough homogenization? Guess not. As always, it's all about options. Maybe helping people identify with their characters would be a better way of chasing retention than timesinks. Just a thought. I had no trouble dropping a beetle summoner in EQ2, he felt stupid (all other things being equal, of course). I didn't want to be a beetle summoner, but there I was, beetle and all. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: kaid on March 25, 2005, 12:38:51 PM Also as a hunter I have to add that even the pets with the bigger bonuses still are not that different. A pet with a 1.0 attack speed does not do more DPS than a slow pet. The fast attack is mainly used to help out life tapping and caster interuption. It is a help but it is not a huge thing. Also with the resists they were nice but they were by no means freakishly over powered. Pets are dumb it is REALLY hard to keep pets always in the rear arch of a mob to avoid AOES. So some people took an ugly slow hitting otherwise not so good fire roc and enjoyed it in some specific instances because it at least died slowly enough to actually be used.
The bonuses were cute and gave a little status but any hunter who wanted something could go out and get it when they were that level. I just did not see the pressing need to make these changes before they had something else in place. kaid Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: MrHat on March 25, 2005, 03:16:54 PM There's rock spiders in Silithus (near the bottom) that seemed to attack me pretty damn fast.
L59-60, might be a replacement for the nerfed spire spiders. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Sky on March 27, 2005, 07:38:29 AM Aaaaand never mind about that whole pet specialization gripe. Who was calling Blizz unresponsive? (source (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-hunter&t=200544&p=1&tmp=1#post200544))
Quote Here's the start of the feedback results, folks. It's not much, but I figured I would bring it to you as I receive it since spirits are low with the patch. Now then. Any Hunter past level 10 understands that the pet is, at the least, supposed to be an integral part of the Hunter's arsenal, and there have been a variety of pets out there that have differed in resistances, attack speed, etc. However, with recent patches, much of this has been removed, and thus one of the major concerns of the Hunter is that their pet is growing steadily weaker and more homogenized. While we have stated that these changes are paving the way for more customization, we haven't been able to give much detail on what's being worked on in that regard recently... Here is some of that detail for you now. Pets currently have many, many training points, more than they can currently spend. It is the intent of the developers to present the Hunter with a wide variety of abilities for one's pet that will utilize those training points, enough so that the Hunter will have to pick and choose which abilities their pets will specialize in. This will result in a more interactive way of making your pet more effective, while at the same time making pets more individualized. Here are the "types" of abilities they currently plan to include in this new pet training customization: * Active Abilities: abilities consciously used, such as poison, increased speed, and damage mitigation. * Passive Abilities: abilities always "on" that, for example, increase attributes (such as Strength and Stamina), armor, and resistances. * AI Abilities: abilities automatically used in certain situations by your pet, such as becoming enraged. It is the hopes of the developers that this new system will dispel the feeling that all pets are the same and help them become more effective in battle. (More information is to come in time -- this is just the start.) Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Ironwood on March 28, 2005, 12:57:33 AM Well, that's an excellent idea for the hunters. Of course, now we're going to have a bunch of droolers on the official boards constantly asking 'WHEN ???'
So, here amongst the intellectuals I have to wonder 'when ???!' 'OMG Hurry up Blizz, this is gonna rulz !!!!' Ahem. (Incidentally, been playing with the rogue for the past couple of days with the new patch and I don't notice the problems. Is it confirmed ?) Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Liquidator on March 28, 2005, 01:10:07 AM Blocked Eviscerates take all combo points- bug or working as intended? (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=2095333&P=1) I didn't play last night long enough to notice this issue- can any rogues out there confirm? What a huge stealth nerf. Guess I get to stand in Org and pick locks for the rest of my career... I haven't noticed this happening to me once since the new patch went live. If it is true it happens vary rarely. I suspect that maybe it is bug. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Rasix on March 28, 2005, 09:07:57 AM I had an evisc partially blocked a day or two ago. Still did 325 damage at level 42. Maybe some higher level mobs can do a complete block instead of just partial or had a damage deflection ability.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: kaid on March 29, 2005, 06:43:44 AM Yes I did see that notice about what they plan on doing. Unfortunatly right now they seem to be doing something very similar to SWG's creature handlers. You started off with most pets being so so and then finding a few with some very good usable powers and attributes. Everybody in their brother grabs those pets so to balance it off they make everything basically the same across the board and then talk about adding diversity later.
For creature handlers they were told the pets would be balanced well with the combat update. To bad the combat update did not occur and has yet to occur almost a year after the pets got leveled. At the speed blizzard seems to move patching I hold out no hope that WoW will be any faster about it. kaid Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Sky on March 29, 2005, 07:01:10 AM Blizz has a LONG FUCKING WAY to go before you start comparing them to the SWG dev team.
But if this promised 'creature revamp' goes on without development, merely repeated empty promises, for over a year (with a shipped paid expansion to boot), then you may. Cryptic is slow to patch, too. They fucking suck, right? Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: schild on March 29, 2005, 07:08:21 AM Cryptic is slow to patch, too. They fucking suck, right? Blizz has a LONG FUCKING WAY to go before you start comparing them to the CoH dev team. But if they pushed out patches that rivaled expansions brought out by other companies every 3 months over the course of a year, then you may. Wolfpack (http://chronicle.ubi.com/NR/exeres/00015b14lsnkwbpjfutaqbqo/News+Article.asp?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fArticles%2fNews%2f20050328_2yrann%2ehtm&NRNODEGUID=%7b7727CC33-536F-4F33-9E85-4048877395BD%7d&NRQUERYTERMINATOR=1&cookie%5Ftest=1) is slow to patch too. They fucking suck, right? Oh...wait. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Jayce on March 29, 2005, 07:33:18 AM Cryptic is slow to patch, too. They fucking suck, right? But if they pushed out patches that rivaled expansions brought out by other companies every 3 months over the course of a year, then you may. I don't know about every three months, but the patch notes for the last patch WERE 19 pages long when pasted into Word. Just sayin'. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: HaemishM on March 29, 2005, 09:27:02 AM The SWG team is slow and from what I can tell, don't really come through with their promises in any sort of a reasonable time frame. I tend to believe this is the SOE corporate culture as much as anything. Except that, well, the EQ2 devs seem to be squeezing out patches with changes/adds comparable to all SWG patches to date with every patch. Blizzard is just fucking slow. We've yet to see if they really do follow their promises, because there haven't been enough patches to know. They have at least added content with the big ones. Wolfpack... blearg.
CoH is a bit slow, but when the come, they come correct. Very few face-stabbing bugs, little server downtime, and each patch comes with an asston of content. If you don't think so, you should look at Striga Isle, which came in Issue 3 and is easily one of the fullest zones in the game, both in terms of stuff in the zone AND missions revolving entirely around that zone, with new mission tilesets too. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Rasix on March 29, 2005, 10:08:44 AM The latest patch just put in Dire Maul, easy one of the best single group dungeon romps that's come from this genre. It's huge, varied, challenging (in parts), and doable in sub 2 hour chunks. Hell, the entire east wing is 2 hours and you fight no less than 5 bosses. Out of doing the east wing I got a blue dagger, blue boots, and a blue shield that were all significant increases over what I previously had. (2 were quest rewards) Mauradon was post release also. Another huge huge dungeon. Haven't done it just because I hate Desolace. (FUCK YOU REXXAR!)
CoH patches seem nice. I think some people overstate the amount of content in them. Comparing them to expansions is just pure hyperbole. Seems to be relatively little bitching about bugs and stability afterwards (here at least). That's good, too bad I don't have the patience to get past the very stagnant portions of the game and don't agree with the direction they've seemed to take the game. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Jayce on March 29, 2005, 10:49:55 AM Mauradon was post release also. Another huge huge dungeon. I just got to Mauradon for the first time last night. Awesome dungeon... very well designed, good drops, challenging but not broken-bottle-to-the-head. And huge, did I mention huge? CoH patches seem nice. I think it's safe to say that CoH and WoW are the new generation of the MMOG world. EQ2 is an also-ran at this point, but might still come up to par. Between CoH and WoW, it's really a matter of whether you prefer your superheroes with long pointy ears or with capes, tights, and potentially innuendo. In other news, a friend of mine in the Matrix Online beta said it's well done, even "better than WoW" (his words). We'll see. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Threash on March 29, 2005, 12:14:04 PM The latest patch just put in Dire Maul, easy one of the best single group dungeon romps that's come from this genre. It's huge, varied, challenging (in parts), and doable in sub 2 hour chunks. Hell, the entire east wing is 2 hours and you fight no less than 5 bosses. Out of doing the east wing I got a blue dagger, blue boots, and a blue shield that were all significant increases over what I previously had. (2 were quest rewards) Mauradon was post release also. Another huge huge dungeon. Haven't done it just because I hate Desolace. (FUCK YOU REXXAR!) Dire maul fucking owns. I love this place. Hint: get through the ogre wing without killing any bosses but the last guy. Hard, but very doable and soooo worth it. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Rasix on March 29, 2005, 12:26:07 PM Haven't been back to the Ogre part since the first day it was out. Heh, that one was kind of a shock for a group with no crowd control ability. Having a shaman try to solo heal that without as much as a sheep and low DPS was just fucking suicidal. War/War/Warlock/Hunter/Shaman was just a horrible, horrible group for it.
I really like the east wing. It's doable even if you've got a shitty tank leading the way. (both times, PUT AWAY YOUR CRAPPY TWO HANDERS, MEATBAGS). It's bad when you know you've got more AC than the tank. It could use a little bump in difficulty in regards to the bosses. They just weren't hard except the last one, who's really a trip if you're not prepared for what he can do. Bring AoE for this wing. Just a very cool dungeon and shows that Blizzard is paying attention to what people like and don't like in their dungeon design. I don't think there are many people that want the massive boring scrap that is Scholo while Scarlet Monastery's design is universally praised. Of course, this dungeon may own a tad too much, we just booted a warlock yesterday because he wouldn't leave a DM group for helping people with the Onyxia key quest (straw that broke the camel's back, not a model member). Have you been to UBRS since the last patch? They beafed up General by a lot. Sucker is actually a challenge now, especially if you don't bring enough dps. The longer the fight goes on, the greater a chance he's going to hit both of his major AOE's in rapid succession and bring down your tank. It was a little worse than expected due to two of the priests we brought being somewhat new to the whole raiding thing. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Threash on March 29, 2005, 12:35:08 PM Have you been to UBRS since the last patch? They beafed up General by a lot. Sucker is actually a challenge now, especially if you don't bring enough dps. The longer the fight goes on, the greater a chance he's going to hit both of his major AOE's in rapid succession and bring down your tank. It was a little worse than expected due to two of the priests we brought being somewhat new to the whole raiding thing. Oh yeah, got caught by surprise on that one. His guards resist fear/sleep alot more now, our CC crew got dropped pretty fast last time. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Hoax on March 29, 2005, 12:47:43 PM Maraudon is a great dungeon, there are several segments that make it fairly long but once you've finished the right quests you get to skip right to a boss farming run of 3 bosses (if you bother w/ landslide that drops some niche but cool blues) and very little trash. The princess fight is pretty impressive and its a well designed dungeon in the sense that good group + smart = teh win, even if they dont bring the most optimal class setup while idiots who don't play it smart will get raped by roaming spawns, silencing lizards and the princess.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Slayerik on March 29, 2005, 01:45:48 PM I have found the best way to take the general down now Is to have a Priest and a shaman do nothing but heal the main tank who tanks the general the whole time. As soon as he gets conflaggerated (or whatever) get a shield on him and spam flash heal.
Get 10 of the other guys all ganking the highest level guard (usually a 60) while a druid(s) and a warlock chain sleep/fear. Once the first guard goes down, take out the other then get on the boss. At this point, your other priest if you have one can give the first priest a mana break. Seems to work for us. We were able to 12 man him fine last night. Couple parts were a little hairy but was fun. Too bad my robe will never drop. Warlocks and mages are so key for CC. Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Rasix on March 29, 2005, 01:59:15 PM Sounds like a solid way to handle it. The guards do go down rather fast in controlled fire and with just one tank keeping general busy you don't have worry about the rogues defacto getting creamed before the fight's over. We did him with 13 last night. Just had it all fall apart at the end where 1 tank, 2 rogues and somehow one of the warlocks died at the same time.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: MrHat on March 29, 2005, 04:16:08 PM Eh, they're all an exercise in repetition anyways.
Title: Re: Rogues take it in the ass in new patch? Post by: Slayerik on March 30, 2005, 08:06:48 AM I forgot, Greater fire protection potions FTW. ANd healthstones, and Mana/health pots. Fire resist gear is key for the main tank.
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