f13.net

Official Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYb3B1ETlk

Debuts November 24, 2021.

Nice trailer.

I was thinking at the start oh no they're going to go grimdark and be all "Hawkeye must PAY for his dark acts" and then the tone shifted abruptly. Feels as if they're going to try to borrow some of Fraction and Aja's great Hawkeye limited series.

Track suit Draculas! Hell yes.

Yeah, by the end of the trailer this didn't seem anything like movie Hawkeye. But that is completely fine as movie Hawkeye is really dull and Fraction/Aja Hawkeye is good.

So much so that I really wish they hadn't cast Remmer in it. I get strong Spacey vibes from that goober.

His dark acts amounted to nothing worse than what Tony did for fun the moment he built his suit.

I mean, if the world's governments kind of fade away after half the population dies suddenly and there are no more borders or anything, I'm pretty good with one man deciding to ninja-murder thousands of organized criminals who might otherwise seize power.

The only context we got for his murder spree, is that he had an edgy hairstyle and ScarJo frowned at him before we moved on to more interesting avengers.

From that we know it was bad.

Rhodes also mentioned that the aftermath left behind from Hawkeye's attacks was maybe a little more gruesome than even people used to this kind of stuff would expect. But yeah, I would imagine a high ranking SHIELD agent like Clint has had to kill people before. If I had to read between the lines I would guess that any sense of guilt would be because he was just killing people as a way to direct his depression and anger at losing his family rather than actually doing it out of any sense of justice. If the Punisher's family came back after 5 years of being dead it might be a little awkward trying to settle back into family life for him also.

My only feelings toward the trailer/show announcement is...about damn time  :drill:

Watched the first one. Pretty good.

Kate is great and I can completely see her playing off of Jeremy Renner. Been a long time since I remember a new main character landing so well.

Also, Lucky!

The first episode was exactly what I wanted from a show like this. I only hope it continues to deliver. The Rogers the Musical scenes were fucking great, and Track Suit Draculas were on point.

The first two episodes were better than F&WS, but so are most soap commercials. Still seems kinda slow, and Obvious Bad Guy stepdad is chewing the scenery terribly.

Didn’t want to like this because I think Hailee Steinfeld is overexposed.

This is good though and she’s good in it.

I find it baffling to consider her overexposed. The majority of what she does is voicework. Aside from playing Emily Dickinson in an Apple TV series I just found out exists, the last starring role she had in anything live action as far as I can tell was in Bumblebee back in 2018.

She rolls with Taylor Swift and dropped an album, among other things.

Maybe I just spend too much time with zoomers.

I've never been exposed to any of her music, so maybe that's the disconnect for me. I've generally liked her as an actress through.

I had never heard of her before this thing.

Probably says more about me than her, but nonetheless.


I had Mum down as main bad guy.

Mainly because we have a 15 month old and 5 year old in the house so always have subtitles just left on, and the super suspicious chat with the soon to be dead guy makes her look a lot worse if you catch every line when they start out barely audible.  

That, and she runs a private security company ffs. Also do you really hire Vera Farmiga to play generic Mum?

On a related note, you should watch this with subtitles on, the tracksuit bros also get some good lines I couldn't hear at all without subtitles.

This was fun and I'm kind of enjoying the new MCU TV shows being really good and fitting in with the MCU better than the Netflix ones. I'd say they've been far more consistent so far but without any of the real quality highs of Daredevil or Jessica Jones' best moments (I don't think anything has been as bad as Iron Fist so far).

First two episodes are fun.

I have Mom down as the ultimate bad guy. In fact, I kind of suspect she's going to introduce the MCU's version of the Maggia--they're starting to build up the street-level parts of the MCU now, first Madripoor and now this. (Maybe the rumor about Charlie Cox's Matt Murdock coming to stay for good in the MCU is true.)

If Mom is Maggia, then she might be  who has become a signature enemy for Kate Bishop in the comics.

Stepdad seems to be a version of the Swordsman.

I kind of agree that mom as the big bad for Kate makes sense. The step dad is a bit too obvious, mom has been set up as the hard eyed realist who's willing to do unpleasant but necessary things (selling the apartment at the beginning). Also fits with dead daddy warbucks seeming to want to discourage their marriage and winding up dead shortly thereafter. The overt clues all pointing towards the Stepdad make it a solid, if predictable, twist. Although honestly if I wasn't reading threads like this and thinking much about it there's a good chance I'd have stuck to 'something seems weird about the mum but I guess I'll just continue enjoying Kate tracking down her evil step dad'.

Edit: I should add as well, it occurred to me that I really appreciate the portrayal of Hawkeye's relationship with his wife. She's clearly not trying to be validated by showing she's also a hard ass who can fight bad guys but they're very much a partnership where she's able to provide support and shares in the work side of his life. It's kind of refreshing to have a super hero who isn't leading a double life and also not just trying to shield his family from his activities.

That wife thing is a good point, I was half expecting unnecessary tension, but instead they managed to show it as a grown up relationship at the same time as using it to pitch the tracksuits at exactly the right level. Much more so than the equivalent scenes in avengers 2, where she came across as a trite aphorism generator.

Also,

Watching the intro a second time with my wife I really noticed how good the kid playing young Kate was. She completely comes across as a younger version of the person you meet later and treads great balance between scared kid and future hero. And her lines are pitched perfectly for her age - which isn't typical of kids on TV shows.

Episode 3’s new character intro was amazing.

Seen a lot of people say that.

And I liked what it did to give the tracksuits identity and what it did for clint. And I liked the dad.

But felt like it was going on for a really long time given we never quite connect in a sympathetic way with echo.

The action was great throughout though.

The surprise of this show for me has been that I like Hawkeye as a character much more now than I did in the movies.  I was expecting another Falcon and the Winter Soldier and this is so, so much more engaging.

The Dad was Zahn McLarnon who’s been pretty memorable in everything I’ve seen him in. When I figured out she was Echo, I had an instant sad because I knew what was going to happen.

That said, I’m excited about the prospects of

I mean,  kind of already did enter it in this episode, it's just a question of when it becomes explicit and if it's  when we see more than a hand, a sign or a reference.

They're balancing humor and intensity really well so far.

Pretty sure that the next episode is going to open with finding out Jack and Clint know each other really well from their SHIELD days. Or maybe even from before SHIELD, since we've never really heard the story of how a SHIELD agent developed a strong affinity for archery, not exactly the normal outcome of secret agent training.

I'm doubtful Kingpin will turn up in this show.

I could see him as a post credits thing to set up the Echo show maybe.

There are only three episodes left, they still have too much to do with Kate, and her key relationships.

Fun show so far. Not sure anything is really happening. But I guess this is just an elaborate backstory.

The rumors are that we get an Echo show which serves as the 4th season of Daredevil with Charlie Cox and the whole cast coming back. I hadn't thought about


as Jack's real identity but it makes perfect sense. Khal, I think you have the Mama picked perfectly. That's who I expect her to be at least. Tracksuit bros are just great - I fucking loved them so much in the comics and was wondering how they'd integrate them into the TV shows and they have been pitch perfect.

50% yawn
50% ok this works

I can see why there is radio silence about this show, nearly went 3 weeks without realizing its premiered.

I was feeling Clint keenly in this episode, my hearing loss isn't that bad but it is bad enough that it hit hard and set up that new character really well.

This is outstanding and makes me happy that the shows continue to be good, even if the movies kinda stink lately.

Agree with Haem about the bros, one thing that I enjoy in my comics-derived movie/show is a strong panel aesthetic, where you get a split second of storyboard/comic panel. The bros translated straight off the page in some scenes. The comic run they're using was one of my favorites when I dipped back in a while ago, so I think that's really helping me dig the show. I even like Renner for the most part, which is kind of amazing. I think his character works better in the longer format and less overshadowed by gods and superheroes.

I agree on the visual styling but I wish they'd credit Aja somewhere prominently--*particularly* for the credit sequence.

Doesn't look like my guess on Jack and Clint was right.

But I am wondering now whose cover would be blown by the watch and why.

I'm not going to put it in a spoiler because it's purely a guess; but I wager the watch belongs to his wife; she's likely an ex-Shield agent (perhaps Mockingbird, as I've seen some guess).

I'm enjoying the show, personally. It's not great, but enjoyable. Not liking Kate a ton, but that's less due to the actress and more the character type just not to my liking. Don't hate her or anything; just don't care for her.

I was just assuming it was the iron man watch that turned into an iron man glove, the one Happy was using in What If. Didn't look like it though.

Wasn't Mockingbird in Agents of Shield, basically? I get that the show's canonicity is murky but I figure they'd at least be queasy about doing it over again.

Yes but they never called her mockingbird and the MCU clearly doesn't give a fuck about agents of shield.

If Laura was mocking bird in this universe than Bobbi obviously wasn't and we're all square.

I doubt they'd even call her that here, maybe just reveal she was once an agent and this was a gadget she had inscribed or something.

There isn't a lot of time left so I don't think we're doing a big road trip to the Hawkeye ranch in flyover land. Next week they are going to need to reveal the Mum, and surely have Echo do something remotely interesting to set up the big silly fight that will be the last episode.

WUT WUUUUT?

YOOOOOOOOOOOOO LET'S FUCKIN GO

Wasn't sure I was going to watch it this evening. But now I feel I have to.

Pretty sure

Daredevil almost certainly going to be a multiversal whatsit given he's cast in spiderman no way home and how absurd the Dr strange trailer was.

The only reason the Netflix shows, along with Agents of Shield, got sidelined was because television pre-Disney + was the way that Kevin Feige sent Ike Perlmutter to the cornfield/send him to the Wall. Feige couldn't afford to have an integrative strategy as long as Perlmutter had called dibs on TV until he drove him into The Inhumans and got the bigger money hats to send Ike to Money Hat Exile.

All the Netflix shows should be canon, and No Way Home should absolutely erase Iron Fist from that canon.

Best part of this was Jack just being a random cool dude with a sword.

Kingpin was weird. It seemed like the writer had a very different idea about the character to the one we know, but the performance was still 100% daredevil.

Anyway this was still fun.

Oh, and there is a mid credits scene.

Pretty sure most of the Kingpin stuff, down to the outfit, was straight out of the comics. Not that it makes it any better, but that's what it was. Can't say I am very interested in the Echo spinoff at this point.

That was way more Comics Kingpin than Netflix Daredevil Kingpin, which is fine.

I really think they're consciously trying to build up a street-level/not-cosmic-level layer to the MCU now, which is a good idea.

Otherwise, good!

I think basically I'm seeing: Hawkeye as mentor to the Thunderbolts; Kate Bishop as the "Captain America" of the Young Avengers?

Eli Bradley is the (wanna-be) super-soldier of the Young Avengers.

Edit: if you meant leader of the Young Avengers then yes in the comics she was co-leader so it wouldn’t be surprising if she had the same role in the MCU.

Did they ever explain why Armand was killed and Jack framed?

I meant leader/emotional heart, yeah.

They didn't really explain why Kingpin wanted Armand dead, but it was on his orders.

Tbh, none of the plot really made any sense.

But Hawkeye and Hawkeye just carried it with wholesome Christmas buddy vibes.

Yes, the reason for most of what happened between the Kingpin and Kate's mom wasn't explained, it was just kind of assumed. I really hope they keep Jack and turn him into the Swordsman, because if ever there was an actor who pulled off the vibe of the character from the comics, it was him. The two leads are what really carried this show.

The Echo series is interesting but I'm not sure the actress can carry a show on her own. She didn't really make much of an impression.

Possibly a bit unfair on the actress as the script gave her no help at all.

But yeah, I'm not looking forward to it. Seems like an easy target for people to complain about a show led by a woman with disabilities.

I agree about the Swordsman, he absolutely nailed it. Impeccable casting, fun to watch, had enough nuance to do a lot of grey stuff with him. Perfect. I put him in there with RDJ and Evans for actors who are so well-cast they become the character.

I also agree about Echo not being strong enough as either a character or actress (I don't know her from the comics, I only call her that because of this thread) to carry a show. I think there were one or two tracksuit bros that performed better. Maybe she can team up with Shang-Chi and they can swirl down a mediocre actor toilet together :D I was actually bummed about her, because I liked the idea and setup.

I enjoyed how they did Kingpin in this one. The nods to the comics and the setup for Kate to become Hawkeye were done with just enough to get it across without belaboring it with too much exposition or explanation.

Overall I feel this was a strong entry into the Didny+ MCU. Great source references, good casting (except Echo), good humor, moved the story along while being entertaining on its own merits.

I'm not excited for an Echo series yet (we'll see how it goes whenever the first trailer comes out), but I don't have any issue with the casting. The entirety of her function in Hawkeye was to be pissed off (in sign language). There's not a whole lot any actor could have done with the script as written to make the character look like an obvious choice to star in their own series. Ultimately it's going to come down to whether or not they actually have something interesting planned for the character.

what's the bet on this, i'm not against some action

He might have been the best casting in the entire show. Just superb.

TBH, I wasn't even a huge fan of Echo in the comics. She came in David Mack's run on Daredevil (who is my favorite comics character, don't @ me) and then Bendis used her as the first Ronin in his New Avengers garbage book. I'm not sure the character can carry a show on her own without WandaVision quality writers, and I'm going to assume her show does not have that level of showrunner - Etan Cohen (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1000113/). Not a whole lot of bangers on that list.

I can say I've read a lot of stories featuring Echo, nor have I heard anybody raving about any particular Echo storylines.

The writer's team from what I can see looks ok. (https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/marion-dayre-reveals-echo-writers-room/) Lead writer Marion Dayre appears to have gone from mostly being a writer's assistant on various shows to executive story editor on Better Call Saul. I don't know if Etan Cohen still has any involvement in the show. I mean, it's not like either of us are going to skip it, and Marvel's batting average is still pretty solid.

Dayre also apparently made a now removed post on instagram which seemed to suggest that Daredevil and Kingpin will both be showing up in Echo, so there's that also.

The rumor mill has basically pegged the first season of Echo as Daredevil's unofficial 4th season, with a return of all the major cast.

Honestly, the actress is super cute. And the fact that she's an utter newb AND deaf and rocking a prosthetic leg? Let her kick as much ass as possible.